I had the pleasure of bumping into Jay Smith on Sunday at Speakers Corner in London. He was attempting to ridicule the Islamic concept of God by saying his god can do absolutely anything, even become a man, unlike Allah, who can’t.
So I asked him: could God become incarnate as Satan? He replied that God would not want to become Satan. So I repeated my question: could God become Satan? He just repeated his point. I told him I was not asking if God would like or dislike doing something, but if he thought is possible for God to became the devil. Jay Smith refused to answer despite many attempts to get him to face the question honestly.
A very revealing exchange. It taught me that this missionary is less concerned with honesty and truth than with gaining fundamentalist supremacy over Muslims.
Categories: Christianity, God, Islam, Missionaries, Silly
Blogging Theology 
You know what’s funny Paul. I was writing an article where I was going to obliterate this silly objection which you “borrowed” from Sami Zaatari. The fact that you are parroting this argument disappoints me since I have come to think you are much more intelligent than this. However, if you want me to answer this silly objection then it will be my pleasure. Let me know.
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It is to Jay Smith you need to direct your comments – not me. He ran away from the challenge. I have yet to meet a consistent Christian. Will you be the first Sam?
Go on, impress me.
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In both the Bible and the Quran, God either says He can do anything or that nothing is impossible for Him.
So this question you are asking Jay Smith could also be redirected to you.
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God cannot do what goes against his nature: according to the Quran he is holy, pure, good, merciful, kind, eternal, unchanging and so on. So it is meaningless (and blasphemous) to talk of God becoming Satan. He would cease to be what He is, which is impossible. Satan possesses the opposite attributes. But Jay Smith in his arrogant missionary supremacism sees this as a weakness in the Islamic concept of God.
It is not.
Smith claims his god can do anything – and this makes his deity superior to Allah. I think that is a silly claim.
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Your answer is shared by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike. It is not a unique Islamic concept of God.
If Jay Smith got something wrong, he’s a human being, we all make mistakes at times.
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Also if it is meaningless and blasphemous to talk of God becoming Satan… Why did you ask the question in the first place?
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Indeed Jay got it wrong but it is not an innocent error, a mere mistake. I have head him make the same point again and again over the years. It is part of his campaign of denigration of Islam. There is a big difference.
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This is a good question, and it’s really not something Christians should be proud of saying. “God can become anything”, does not mean that God is all powerful. This is by definition, uncritical thinking, borrowed from Graeco-Roman Paganism and Harrapan Paganism. I think we need to remind ourselves that Christianity is a religion of simple slogans, “he is risen”, “he died for us”, “daddy sent him”, “our god can do anything”, etc.
Let’s take for example blaspheming the Spirit, can an all powerful God forgive that sin? Yes. Can the Christian God? No. Can the Christian God become a man? Yes. If the Christian God can become a man, does that mean the ontology of God changed? Yes. Therefore the Christian God is no longer a deity, as a deity is one which is absolute in its nature, immutable. If the Christian God is an absolute deity as in Abrahamic monotheism, then God’s essential attributes do not change and His essential nature cannot change. If God’s nature does change, then God’s nature is no longer absolute, but relative and thus this “God” loses its deity. Christian history is littered with the problem of their God’s impassibility and immutability, it’s a question we actively use to convert Christians, and it’s been working splendidly.
More recently, I’ve been discussing this problem with a few theology students and an interesting problem was raised. Some Christians believe that the Christian God came to earth to “experience” sin as God does not possess “experiential” knowledge. Therefore, the Son needed to become incarnate, before the Son could pay for sins (see the commentaries on Hebrews 5:8-9 and Romans 6:9). In other words, the Christian God is not innately, an absolute being, it is not all knowing, and thus not all powerful. The Christian God has needs, has faults, lacks essential knowledge and absolute deity. One very controversial point was that, if God lacked experiential knowledge in Christianity and needed to come as a man to experience the sin of man, then we have some problems:
1. Jesus needed to have sinned, so that God could experience sinning.
2. The Son would have to be trans-ethnic and trans-gendered to experience the sins of all types of humans.
3. The Son would have to do all sins, to experience and thus gain knowledge about these sins, including the major ones like disbelief in God, worshiping another God, having illicit sexual relations, reading anything from Sam, suicide, homosexuality, reading anything from Sam, doing drugs, rape, murder, reading anything from Sam, etc.
So, the question is a good question, and its a problematic one. The Christian God is innately not all powerful, nor all knowing, nor absolute in its deity. I cannot fathom why anyone would believe such folly in the first place.
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Alright, I don’t know enough about your debates with him so I’ll leave it at that.
I do believe honesty is a good way to go about things though, from both sides.
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Arthur, to actually seriously believe and entertain the thought that Almighty God could become the embodiment of pure evil is blasphemous by any definition. I use the example to wake Smith up from his dogmatic slumbers in order to challenge his denigration of Islam using logic.
But he is impervious to reason.
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“The Son would have to do all sins, to experience and thus gain knowledge about these sins, including the major ones like disbelief in God, worshiping another God, having illicit sexual relations, reading anything from Sam, suicide, homosexuality, reading anything from Sam, doing drugs, rape, murder, reading anything from Sam, etc.:
LOL Ijaz!
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Paul, Lord willing I will answer your silly question sometime tomorrow since I have prior commitments for today which will keep me away from the internet. In the meantime, please quote a Quranic verse that explicitly states that Allah cannot do anything and everything, such as do things that go against his nature. Your response shows that you really haven’t studied Islam with any depth and are simply reading back into the Quran what you had picked up whole you were a Christian. You need to stop Christianizing the Quran and let it speak for itself. Therefore, please be so kind and quote some ayat which say what you claim concerning Allah’s nature and his inability to act contrary to it.
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whole = while
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Ijaz Ahmad, from when you said “I think we need to remind ourselves that Christianity is a religion of simple slogans”, I could no longer take you seriously.
You raised a fair point that “some (not all) Christians” should not be proud of making such statements about God but, if you think you’ve managed to figure out the whole essence and core of Christian understanding and belief of God, you’ve got another thing coming.
This splendid tactic of yours is not so splendid because not all Christians think in the same way.
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@Arthur,
My comment was not directed towards you, I did ensure to use the term, “some” quite a number of times in my comment for that very reason. There is a lot of diversity in Christian, something I strongly agree with, especially in the early Church. I am happy that you would not be proud of making such a statement, applaud you on that point.
Regards,
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@Paul,
A verse which says that God does not do anything contrary to His nature, but is indeed all powerful. I think that might be quite hard to find. It surely can’t be Surah al Ikhlas, which contains 4 verses which directly addresses this topic in great detail. That God is indeed as-Samad (all powerful, without need), yet He does not beget nor is He begotten Himself (does anything contrary to His nature) and that God’s nature is distinct and unique. It might be extremely difficult to find a passage or chapter which mentions these things. I wish you good luck in your search, you surely do have your work cut out for you.
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Ijaz Ahmed
If God said He beget not or is He begotten, then it means God cannot be begotten, so God does not do anything contrary to his nature. If the Bible says God is immortal it means God cannot die. So there are certain things that God cannot do. Obviously God is Eternal, Everlasting, infinite, uncreated etc.
If God is uncreated then God cannot be created because created cancels out uncreated.
God is infinite i.e. no beginning no end, so God cannot be finite i.e. with beginning or end.
I think there are certain things God cannot do if He does then He is not God anything. So there are certain things God cannot do i.e. He has no beginning and no end so He cannot have any beginning or end and cannot become Satan.
Thanks.
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Jay Smith is living proof that his god can become money.
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Actually what Jay Smith and all other christian fundamentalist mushrikeen are saying that God only wants to commit absurdities they allow him to.
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Jay Smith
1. Watch these videos and see how Jay Smith does not have a clue to what(Christianity) he is preaching.
2. Jay has a corrupted Bible in his hands but preaching against Islam in it’s(Islamic) literature which he does not know. His is to preach against Islam just like that
Thanks
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Paul
You said;
It is to Jay Smith you need to direct your comments – not me. He ran away from the challenge. I have yet to meet a consistent Christian. Will you be the first Sam?
Go on, impress me.
I say;
Sam cannot answer anything. Don’t you see he also ran away just like how Jay Smith run away.
Thanks
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Brilliant way to quieten and expose Jay Smith. Should have recorded it Paul!
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Lol @Shamoun who said he has prior commitments…collecting your welfare cheque are you?
🙂
Your colleague Pastor Daniel Scot was accusing Muslims of being on Welfare…
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Williams, I see your cronies have come out of their caves to bark out some of their venom and insults. Take for instance, YahyaSlime who has confused me with his false prophet since it was he, not I, that was on welfare. In facts, thanks to his false god Muhammad created a very lucrative welfare system for both himself and his whore-mongering, murdering jihadists.
Note for instance what the Quran says concerning Allah making Muhammad rich:
“Did He not find you as an orphan and give you shelter? Did He not find you wandering about and give you guidance? And did He not find you in need AND MAKE YOU RICH?” S. 93:6-8 Muhammad Sarwar
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Whenever a dead man in debt was brought to Allah’s Apostle he would ask, “Has he left anything to repay his debt?” If he was informed that he had left something to repay his debts, he would offer his funeral prayer, otherwise he would tell the Muslims to offer their friend’s funeral prayer. WHEN ALLAH MADE THE PROPHET WEALTHY THROUGH CONQUESTS, he said, “I am more rightful than other believers to be the guardian of the believers, so if a Muslim dies while in debt, I am responsible for the repayment of his debt, and whoever leaves wealth (after his death) it will belong to his heirs.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 37, Number 495)
As the foregoing hadith confirms, one of the ways in which Allah made his very profitable profit rich was through the plunder stolen from caravans and military expeditions since a fifth of the booty had to be given to Muhammad:
They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and His messenger, if ye are (true) believers. S. 8:1 Pickthall
And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our slave on the Day of Discrimination, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is Able to do all things. S. 8:41 Pickthall
We are further told that Muhammad even owned many homes!
O believers, enter not the HOUSES of the Prophet, except leave is given you for a meal, without watching for its hour. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have had the meal, disperse, neither lingering for idle talk; that is hurtful to the Prophet, and he is ashamed before you; but God is not ashamed before the truth. And when you ask his wives for any object, ask them from behind a curtain; that is cleaner for your hearts and theirs. It is not for you to hurt God’s Messenger, neither to marry his wives after him, ever; surely that would be, in God’s sight, a monstrous thing. S. 33:53 Arberry
Moreover, Allah promised to compensate Muslims for the financial loss they would experience as a result of the pagans being banished from Mecca through the extortion money which he demanded from the people of the Book (i.e. Jews and Christians):
O believers, the idolaters are indeed unclean; so let them not come near the Holy Mosque after this year of theirs. If you fear poverty, God shall surely enrich you of His bounty, if He will; God is All-knowing; All-wise. Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden — such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book — until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled. S. 9:28-29 Arberry
But Allah did much more. Allah went of his way to satisfy the sexual immorality and adulterous desires of his profit and companions by allowing them to rape captive women, be they single or married:
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property, – desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and God is All-knowing, All-wise. S. 4:24 Y. Ali
As shocking as it may sound, this passage is basically stating that the only time a Muslim man (which includes Muhammad) can sleep with a married woman is when she happens to be one of the female slaves that he has taken captive!
Unfortunately, this verse was tragically and shamefully put into practice by the jihadists:
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri: O Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger mentioning al-‘azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger, and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3371)
Abu Said al-Khudri said: The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, ‘And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess’. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Volume 2, Number 2150)
How unfortunate that Muhammad and his deity did not share the shame and concern of their followers regarding the morality of raping captives whose husbands were still alive, but actually rushed in to compose a text to justify such a wicked and perverted act!
Worse still, Allah had his profit and jihadists prostitute women through the shameful practice of temporary marriage:
Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah and Salama bin Al-Akwa’: While we were in an army, Allah’s Apostle came to us and said, “You have been allowed to do the Mut’a (marriage), so do it.” Salama bin Al-Akwa’ said: Allah’s Apostle’s said, “If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so.” I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general. Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: ‘Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, “The Mut’a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful).” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 52)
Narrated Abdullah:
We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah’s Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, “Shall we get ourselves castrated?” He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract and recited to us: — ‘O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.’ (5.87) (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 13o)
This practice continued to be observed until the time of Umar’s caliphate:
Ibn Uraij reported: ‘Ati’ reported that Jabir b. Abdullah came to perform ‘Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet and during the time of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3248)
Tragically, there were some instances in which women got pregnant through such unions:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab from Urwa ibn az-Zubayr that Khawla ibn Hakim came to Umar ibn al-Khattab and said, “Rabia ibn Umayya made a temporary marriage with a woman and she is pregnant by him.” Umar ibn al-Khattab went out in dismay dragging his cloak, saying, “This temporary marriage, had I come across it, I would have ordered stoning and done away with it!” (Malik’s Muwatta, Book 28, Number 28.18.42)
Today such a practice would be called prostitution, plain and simple.
From the foregoing we can see that Muhammad was far from being destitute and that Islam turned out to be a very lucrative endeavor for both Muhammad and the Muslims.
Therefore, YahyaSlime should now condemn his prophet for being creating a welfare system on the backs of immoral, murdering jihadists and at the cost of the lives and safety of countless innocent people whose only crime was that they did not believe in this false prophet.
Now that I have muzzled the barking of your cronies I can get back to focusing my attention on you and only you. From now on I will ignore the barks of your fellow jihadits YahyaSlime, non-intellect, and Ijaz “I got daddy issues and therefore need someone to love me and give me attention” Ahmad.
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Getting back to the issue at hand, I am still waiting for you to cite passages where the Quran says it is impossible for Allah to do anything and everything. For example, the true God in the Holy Bible plainly and emphatically claims that there are certain things that are impossible for him to do due to his holy and immutable nature:
“for the gifts and the calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.” Romans 11:29 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
” in the hope of eternal life that God, who NEVER lies, promised before the ages began—” Titus 1:2 NRSV
“if we are faithless, he remains faithful—for he CANNOT deny himself.” 2 Timothy 2:13 NRSV
“In the same way, when God desired to show even more clearly to the heirs of the promise the UNCHANGEABLE character of his purpose, he guaranteed it by an oath, so that through two UNCHANGEABLE things, in which it is IMPOSSIBLE that God would prove false, we who have taken refuge might be strongly encouraged to seize the hope set before us. ” Hebrews 6:17-18 NRSV
“No one, when tempted, should say, ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God CANNOT be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one.” James 1:13 NRSV
Therefore, please be so kind as to cite from the Quran where we find comparable statements to what we find in the above texts from God’s revealed Word, the Holy Bible. Once you do I will then proceed to decimate your silly objection by the grace of Christ.
I won’t be holding my breath.
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@Sam Shamoun, let’s just quickly analyse what you said:
“Now that I have muzzled the barking of your cronies I can get back to focusing my attention on you and only you.”
– You haven’t muzzled anything. You merely mentioned that a Prophet of God fought wars. In the same footsteps as David, Solomon, Moses and other Prophets. If fighting wars and gaining booty from them was wrong, God would not have allowed it. If you are consistent, and we ask you to be, then you should also reject the God of David, Solomon and Moses. Not to mention the God of Jesus who sanctioned war, see Zechariah 12 to 14.
“From now on I will ignore the barks of your fellow jihadits YahyaSlime, non-intellect, and Ijaz “I got daddy issues and therefore need someone to love me and give me attention” Ahmad.”
– You may be confusing me with David Wood. I have an excellent relationship with my father. However, can you say the same about David? As for ignoring the barks of your fellow “jihadists” and “non-intellect”, apparently several months ago when I was offered to be paid to debate you and declined, I wasn’t a dog then. In fact, the offer was that I had to include you in at least one round of debates. I refused. No amount of money offered to me (and it was quite a nice sum) and no amount of begging and making you a requirement, would meet my standards of having to debate you. So, yes I am a dog, and I am a non-intellectual according to you, but atleast I don’t have people making me a requirement and offering people money to debate me.
– You’re a non-intellectual, and I don’t consider you a dog. That would be an insult to dogs.
– I just wanted to close this by saying that several people were offered money and the requirement was to debate Sam at least once as part of the deal. No one accepted. He also had to beg to sit on a stage for Br. Shadid’s debate. I think that’s hilarious.
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I forgot to add, that when Shamoun realised I was not going to debate him for money, I mysteriously got another debate request for a Christian radio programme. The host of the programme requested that I debate Shamoun. So I told the radio programme I was not willing since I was already offered to debate him on stage for money and I told Sam’s group who was offering money that I was not willing since I was already offered to debate him on the radio. I politely declined several requests from both groups for sometime.
So in essence, I may be a dog Shamoun, but I’m a dog you were willing to give money to debate and when you realised money wouldn’t cut it, you tried to make yourself a requirement and even that didn’t work. If anyone wants to hear the story of how Shamoun had to beg to share a stage with a Muslim by appealing to CARM for help, I’ll be glad to share it. He’s getting desperate.
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You see Williams the severe brain damage which kissing the black stone produces? Not only did “I got daddy” issues just admit that he basically ran away from debating me, since he knew what I would do to him in a debate, but he is so steeped in his lies and deception that he thinks he can spew any deception and lie out there for all to read without anyone exposing him for it. I have no clue what this deceiver is talking about since I do not know of anyone who tried to pay him money to debate me. In fact, if this deceiver is speaking the truth I wish this snake would then post the name of the party so I can contact them personally and rebuke them for wanting to pay someone so mentally deranged to engage in a debate with me. I am highly offended at the thought of anyone that would even think to pay such an emotionally and spiritually traumatized Muhammadan to debate me.
Anyway, I will let daddy issues keep barking away since my focus will be entirely upon you, Williams.
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“I got daddy” issues = “I got daddy issues”
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I’m not quite sure you do believe what you are writing, Sam. You basically just posted in several comments that you refuse to engage with either Yahya or myself, so who exactly is ignoring who? I answered the question you asked Br. Paul, an answer you claim to need to ignore. So by that reasoning, aren’t you the one running away from me (and by extension Br. Yahya)?
I do think it’s quite funny you are referring to me as mentally deranged, when your own Christian friends have claimed the same of yourself. In fact, as I do remember it, Br. Paul did require a psychologist’s assessment of you before agreeing to any debate with you. Something you have consistently failed to provide. Why is that? The fact that you keep referring to people as being mentally deranged, would clearly indicate that you are projecting your beliefs about yourself upon others. You do project a lot, due to being overweight and being unable to sit in a seat (in a plane). I have seen you asking for prayers so that God helps you lose weight and help you get on a plane. That sounds like you have serious issues. I used to be a peer counsellor at my University, and people who are overweight (severely obese) and who constantly berate others, do suffer from some form of mental issues. You are quite a classic case. Perhaps this is why you are afraid to publicly post a psychologist’s analysis of you. I gladly offer to pay for an assessment to be done on your behalf, I have quite a few friends in the medical field.
As for daddy issues, I’m not David Wood. I know you need to find some reason to berate me, given your depression and mental issues, but you need to come up with another story than that. Maybe you can say I’m obese, or I’m an extremist, or I’m a mean person. Heck, you can even say I bully you. I wouldn’t mind. The daddy issues claim is quite weak, maybe you can say I have mommy issues or something, I don’t know, atleast make it interesting. The funny thing is, while you have to make up issues about me, I merely have to read your Facebook page to see you boasting about yours. I’ll be quite happy to let you have access to my Facebook page to see what issues I post about. Maybe that way you can claim something believable.
In any case, if you want to know who offered me money and made it a requirement to debate you, a good place to start would be in your emails, given its the very organization you debate on behalf of.
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Sam Shamoun
The topic is God cannot become Satan or Dog or Monkey, so God cannot become man(Jesus) and so Jesus is not God.
3 Persons 1 God means 3 Beings One God because every Person is a Being with consciousness and intellect and so you are worshiping 3 divine Beings which is against the Bible and is idol worshiping and polytheism.
The Bible says God is One, Only and Alone Divine Being.
Thanks
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Anyone who wants the emails forwarded to them about me being offered money to debate Sam, and him being made into a requirement, send me an email:
callingchristians@gmail.com
I will send it to anyone but Sam. 😀
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About the issue of being overweight and obese:
Narrated Aisha:
Sauda (the wife of the Prophet) went out to answer the call of nature after it was made obligatory (for all the Muslims ladies) to observe the veil. SHE WAS A FAT HUGE LADY, and everybody who knew her before could recognize her. So ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab saw her and said, “O Sauda! By Allah, you cannot hide yourself from us, so think of a way by which you should not be recognized on going out. Sauda returned while Allah’s Apostle was in my house taking his supper and a bone covered with meat was in his hand. She entered and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I went out to answer the call of nature and ‘Umar said to me so-and-so.” Then Allah inspired him (the Prophet) and when the state of inspiration was over and the bone was still in his hand as he had not put in down, he said (to Sauda), “You (women) have been allowed to go out for your needs.” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 318)
Surprise, surprise! One of “I got daddy issues”‘ mothers was a huge fat obese woman whom his profit wanted to dump and abandon. For instance, the Sunan of Abu Dawud narrates:
… When Sauda daughter of Zam’ah BECAME OLD AND FEARED THAT THE APOSTLE OF ALLAH (may peace be upon him) WOULD DIVORCE HER, she said: Apostle of Allah, I give to ‘A’ishah the day you visit me. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) accepted it from her. She said: We think that Allah, the Exalted, revealed about this or a similar matter in the Qur’an: “If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband’s part.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, English translation with explanatory notes by Prof. Ahmad Hasan [Sh. Muhammad Ashraf Publishers, Booksellers & Exporters; Lahore, Pakistan, 1984] Volume 2, Book V. Kitab al-Nikah (Book of Marriage), Chapter 705: Division of Time Among One’s Wives, Number 2130, p. 572; capital and underline emphasis ours)
We are further told in the Mishkat Al Masabih that:
Ibn ‘Abbas said that when God’s messenger died he left nine wives, eight of whom he used to visit equally. (Bukhari and Muslim.)
‘A’isha told that when Sauda became old she said, “Messenger of God, I appoint to ‘A’isha the day you visit me.” So God’s messenger allotted two days to ‘A’isha, hers and Sauda’s. (Bukhari and Muslim.) (Mishkat Al Masabih, English translation with explanatory notes by Dr. James Robson [Sh. Muhammad Ashraf Publishers, Booksellers & Exporters, Lahore-Pakistan, Reprint 1990], Volume II, Book XIII. – Marriage, Chapter X: Sharing Visits to one’s Wives Equally, p. 686)
And:
‘Ata told that when they were with Ibn ‘Abbas at Maimuna’s funeral in Sarif he said, “This is God’s messenger’s wife, so when you lift her bier do not shake her or disturb her, but be gentle with her, for God’s messenger had nine wives with eight of whom he shared his time, but to one of them he did not allot a share.” ‘Ata said that they heard that the one to whom God’s messenger did not allot a share was Safiya who was the last of them to die. Razin said that someone other than ‘Ata declared that she was Sauda, and that is sounder. She gave her day to ‘A’isha when the messenger intended to divorce her, saying to him, “Keep me. I have given my day ‘A’isha. Perhaps I may be one of your wives in paradise.” (Ibid., p. 687; bold and underline emphasis ours)
Another modern writer unashamedly admits that:
He married Sawda, his second wife, while in Makka. However, after a while, he wanted to divorce her for certain reasons. When she heard this, she was extremely upset. She ran to him and begged, ‘O Messenger of God, I wish no worldly thing of you. I will sacrifice the time allocated to me, if you do not wish to visit me. But, please, do not deprive me of being your wife. I wish to go to the Hereafter as your wife. I care for nothing else.’ Her plea was accepted by the Messenger, who, however, never neglected visiting her, and Sawda remained one of the pure wives. (F. Gulen, The Infinite Light, Volume 1, Chapter 6: The Prophet Muhammad as husband and father, THE PROPHET AND HIS WIVES; source)
Although Gulen confirms that Muhammad intended to divorce her, and that Sauda gave up her day, he fails to provide any sources to substantiate his assertion that Muhammad continued to give her a day. His claim contradicts the consensus of the Islamic scholarly references.
So what was that about being obese?
I can see why this mentally deranged child has issues with obese people. He is simply emulating the sunna of his profit.
You see Williams what kissing the black stone has done to the integrity and mental faculties of “I got daddy issues”?
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I thought you were ignoring me? You choose to respond to everything except the answer I gave to the question you asked. Why is that?
I find it funny you think it’s wrong that a man can be displeased with his wife and this can’t make him a true Prophet. Is this really your logic? I am quite sure you are projecting your anger about being morbidly obese. This clearly indicates you lack impulse control, especially in regard to your mouth. You can’t keep it closed, whether when eating or speaking, thus your mental and medical problems.
Can you post a psychologists assessment of your mental faculties Sam? I can. I had surgery this year, and they evaluate all the patients to ensure they can handle it. If you post yours, I’ll post mines. I know you won’t take up that challenge!
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Williams, where did you go? I have been waiting for your reply and was hoping you would have responded by now since it is late here where I am at, and will need to go to sleep very soon. That means that, Lord Jesus willing, I won’t be able to get back to you till some time later tomorrow.
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Given your demeanour, I’m surprised you don’t understand why he’s not replying to you.
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Sam Shamoun
Comment Repost
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Intellect
August 13, 2015 • 3:40 am
Sam Shamoun
The topic is God cannot become Satan or Dog or Monkey, so God cannot become man(Jesus) and so Jesus is not God.
3 Persons 1 God means 3 Beings One God because every Person is a Being with consciousness and intellect and so you are worshiping 3 divine Beings which is against the Bible and is idol worshiping and polytheism.
The Bible says God is One, Only and Alone Divine Being.
Thanks
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You did not explain to us why you are worshiping Jesus(man, object, person but not God according to John 1:1 (In the beginning there is a Word(Person/person) and the Word(Person/person) is with another Person/person(God)).
Is it God with God? i.e. God with another God? which makes it 2 Gods you are worshiping?: A big polytheist Sam Shamoun you are who is worshiping multiple Gods of the Greek mythology introduced into Christianity by Paul of Tarsus.
Mr. Sam, or is it Word(Person/person) with another Person/person(God) you are worshiping? which makes it a Person with another Person to make it 2 Persons/persons?
Every Person/person is a Being with consciousness and intellect and so you are worshiping 3 Beings that are either 3 Divine Beings or a combination of 3 divine and human beings you are worshiping.
You man worshiper Sam Shamoun. Why are you not worshiping a woman or a but a man. Your God discriminated women by incarnating into man but not a woman. You God is a racist who appeared in the middle east to show Himself but did not appear anywhere else to show himself. Your God was made to look like a white racist supremacists by the white supremacists in painting him to look like them with blonde hair and blue eyes. The Rastafaians responded to this racists and chose their Trinity God in the name of the black Emperor Haile Selaissies of Ethiopia, Jah Rastafari, the conqueror of the Lion of Judah. His Majesty.
You see Mr. Shamoun, any body can make up or compose your Trinitarian God to suit him, like how Paul of Tarsus corrupted Gods word in the Bible and introduce his Greek mythology and Roman Gods of Love, Goddess of Sex, God of this, God of that etc.
Keep insulting Islam and telling lies about it and die and you will face the hell fire like your great, great grand father Abu Lahab.
You clearly are not following this clear statements in the Bible that says God is One, Only and Alone. Without any Person/persons. Hypostasis, 3 in 1, Trinity in it.
The Holy Bible clearly states that God is One and Alone and Only, but not with anyone.
“You alone, Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
“there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there “will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“You alone is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
Because Jesus Christ is a being(i.e. human or divine being), it will be impossible for the “word” to be him with God because God’s “being” is Only One as Mr. Croft admitted to.
Christians keep lying that Jesus communicates with the Father from eternity and Jesus proved the Christian liars wrong by telling them the Father did not communicate to him the day of judgement. So the Persons/persons of the Trinity are not in communication from eternity at all. It is lie, a big lie by Christians like Sam Shamoun who does that to get his pay check. Keep getting your pay check with lies and you will pay it in the hell fire.
You man worshiper, object worshiper, 3 Persons/persons i.e. people worshiper, Keep worshiping people and die with that and you will see. People worshiper like you.
Thanks.
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Sam Shamoun
You said;
Getting back to the issue at hand, I am still waiting for you to cite passages where the Quran says it is impossible for Allah to do anything and everything. For example, the true God in the Holy Bible plainly and emphatically claims that there are certain things that are impossible for him to do due to his holy and immutable nature:
“for the gifts and the calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.” Romans 11:29 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
” in the hope of eternal life that God, who NEVER lies, promised before the ages began—” Titus 1:2 NRSV
“if we are faithless, he remains faithful—for he CANNOT deny himself.” 2 Timothy 2:13 NRSV
“In the same way, when God desired to show even more clearly to the heirs of the promise the UNCHANGEABLE character of his purpose, he guaranteed it by an oath, so that through two UNCHANGEABLE things, in which it is IMPOSSIBLE that God would prove false, we who have taken refuge might be strongly encouraged to seize the hope set before us. ” Hebrews 6:17-18 NRSV
“No one, when tempted, should say, ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God CANNOT be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one.” James 1:13 NRSV
Therefore, please be so kind as to cite from the Quran where we find comparable statements to what we find in the above texts from God’s revealed Word, the Holy Bible. Once you do I will then proceed to decimate your silly objection by the grace of Christ.
I say;
Then why did you say God became man and you are worshiping him? Is it not a blaspheme on your part? to be worshiping a created being? who does not know the day of judgement? If you do not repent you will be kept into hell fire because you just admitted the truth.
God cannot become man because man in its essence is a created being but God in His essence in uncreated. Created cancels out un-created and so God cannot become a man but you worship Jesus a man who never said he is God himself. Do not put words into the mouth of Jesus Christ by any doubting Thomases or enemy Jews please. From the horses own mounth. Jesus never said he is God and he must be worshiped by himself in the Bible.
If Jesus can become a man, then it is better to choose the Trinity of Emperor Haile Selaissie of Ethiopia because he is in response to the racist drawing of Jesus Christ as a blonde white man with blue eyes. You must worship that one.
The Quran said;
God Begets not and was not begotten. So God is not created and cannot be created. Any one who says God has a Son in capital letter which is absent in Greek alphabet is saying God became created or incarnated in the womb of Mary and will be sent to the hell fire.
If you say the son is metaphorical, then I will agree with you but if you separate Jesus Sonship to God as not metaphorical then you mean literal and it is blaspheme as you yourself admit per your comment. Jesus Sonship is either literal or metaphorical and there can be nothing in between. If you do not accept it is metaphorical, then you mean it is literal and you will be burned in the hell fire as you admit God can not have a literal Son/son.
If God is not begotten then why do you put begotten in your Bible? Remove it and the case close. If it is in your Bible, then the case is opened. Some Bibles replaced the begotten to unique and that is the first step for those who did that to start accepting the wisdom of the Quran.
Thanks.
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Paul I wrote God can not do anything against his nature. So it saying Allah has a nature?
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could you phrase your question is decent intelligible English please?
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Brother Paul,
I think ‘general trolls’ are only interested in ‘general trolling’ not decent intelligible English.
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of course. Silly me.
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Sorry Paul, your right that sentence made no sense. Got a new phone and it has not learned my typoneese.
Anyway you wrote…”God cannot do what goes against his nature: according to the Quran he is holy, pure, good, merciful, kind, eternal, unchanging and so on. So it is meaningless (and blasphemous) to talk of God becoming Satan. He would cease to be what He is, which is impossible. Satan possesses the opposite attributes. But Jay Smith in his arrogant missionary supremacism sees this as a weakness in the Islamic concept of God.”
My response: This is an interesting statement, I have never heard a Muslim say allah has a nature much less he can not do anything against his nature. For instance Muslim apologist and MDI member Shadid Lewis said in a debate with Dr White “Yes god can become a man, he can become a dog, he can fornicate he can lie… he is god he can do what he wants…he can come down to earth right now and fornicate, with a woman… who are we to say he can not he is god”… He then added “But thats not the question the question should be WOULD allah do this, and the answer is no because it is beneath his Majesty”
Another interesting point is that this statement “”God cannot do what goes against his nature: according to the Quran he is holy, pure, good, merciful, kind, eternal, unchanging and so on. ” would to violate the doctrine of Tahweed. Specifically the doctrine of Names and Attributes. Since you are equating allahs attributes with some kind of nature. The problem is that allahs attributes are not allah and they are not anything other then allah. So there for allahs attributes can not be apart of his nature (if he had one) since they are not allah.
And this is one of the many problems of the doctrine of Tahweed, for one you have to violate the very doctrine in order to make it logical. A second problem is that as Shadid Lewis pointed out, since allah has no nature just a “Majesty” he can violate that Majesty any time he pleases, since he can redefine what it is to be his “Majesty”.
I believe that this is another case of a Muslim borrowing from another world view.
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Williams, I shouldn’t be surprised to see you posting links to “I got severe dadday issues” garbage even though I had given you too much credit for being somewhat intelligent. After all, how intelligent can someone really be who decides to become a Muhammadan and believe in the fairytale book called the Quran.
Be that as it may, I will assume from the fact you didn’t respond to my question that you yourself realize and know full well that you cannot quote a Quranic text which says that your deity cannot do anything and everything. In light of your implicit concession you are now faced with the same dilemma which you tried to foist upon Jay Smith, namely, there is nothing in your Quran which says your god cannot become Satan himself. (In point of fact, the evidence conclusively proves that the spirit claiming to be Allah, which Muhammad mistakenly thought was the true God revealed in the Holy Bible, was either the devil himself or some high ranking demon. However, that is a discussion for another time and place.)
This is confirmed from the fact that, not only does your Quran NEVER says that Allah cannot do anything and everything, it actually states that he actually is able to anything and everything since there is nothing impossible for him to do:
That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, AND IT IS HE WHO IS ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS. S. 22:6 Hilali-Khan
Do they not see that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth, and was not wearied by their creation, is Able to give life to the dead? Yes, HE SURELY IS ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS. S. 46:33
All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Allah; and He is the Mighty, the Wise. His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth; He quickeneth and He giveth death; AND HE IS ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS. He is the First and the Last, and the Outward and the Inward; and He is Knower of all things. He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days; then He mounted the Throne. He knoweth all that entereth the earth and all that emergeth therefrom and all that cometh down from the sky and all that ascendeth therein; and He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah is Seer of what ye do. His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, and unto Allah (all) things are brought back. S. 57:1-5 Pickthall
Whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth glorifies Allah. His is the dominion, and to Him belong all the praises and thanks, AND HE IS ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS. He it is Who created you, then some of you are disbelievers and some of you are believers. And Allah is All-Seer of what you do. He has created the heavens and the earth with truth, and He shaped you and made good your shapes, and to Him is the final Return. He knows what is in the heavens and on earth, and He knows what you conceal and what you reveal. And Allah is the All-Knower of what is in the breasts (of men). S. 64:1-4 Hilali-Khan
It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that ALLAH HAS POWER OVER ALL THINGS, and that Allah surrounds (comprehends) all things in (His) Knowledge. S. 65:12 Hilali-Khan
Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty, and, HE IS ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS. Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, Who hath created seven heavens in harmony. Thou (Muhammad) canst see no fault in the Beneficent One’s creation; then look again: Canst thou see any rifts? Then look again and yet again, thy sight will return unto thee weakened and made dim. And verily We have beautified the world’s heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame. S. 67:1-5 Pickthall
So there you have it Williams. Since the Quran affirms both positively, e.g., Allah has power over all things and can do everything, as well as negatively, i.e., the Quran NEVER says there are things that Allah cannot do, this therefore proves that according to your own religious book, your god can actually become Satan himself.
Lord willing, in my next post I will prove from your own religious sources that Allah not only appears and looks like a man, but that he actually appears as a host of different things. So make sure you enjoy the humiliation that you just created for yourself by taking a shot at Jay Smith, since I know I sure will!
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Sam don’t you remember, Paul Williams said “I got daddy issues” was one of Islams greatest apologists, he was so good that he convinced Paul Williams that Islam was not for him lol.
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once again could you phrase write in decent intelligible English please? Forgive my bluntness perhaps English is not your first language, or you had poor schooling…
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Here are some more goodies for Williams. Since I have already established from the Quran that Allah can do absolutely anything and everything, and that there isn’t anything that the Quran says Allah CANNOT do, it shouldn’t therefore come as a surprise that the Muslim scripture has Allah appearing in a fire that set a blaze a specific tree:
When he saw a fire, and said to his family, ‘Tarry you here; I observe a fire. Perhaps I shall bring you a brand from it, or I shall find at the fire guidance.’ When he came to IT, A VOICE CRIED, ‘Moses, I AM THY LORD; put off thy shoes; thou art in the holy valley, Towa. I Myself have chosen thee; therefore give thou ear to this revelation. S. 20:10-13 Arberry
When Moses said to his people ‘I observe a fire, and will bring you news of it, or I will bring you a flaming brand, that haply you shall warm yourselves.’ So, when he came to IT, he was called: ‘Blessed IS HE WHO IS IN THE FIRE, and he who is about it. Glory be to God, the Lord of all Being! Moses, behold, it is I, God, the All-mighty, the All-wise. S. 27:7-9 Arberry
Then, when Musa (Moses) had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family, he saw a fire in the direction of Tur (Mount). He said to his family: “Wait, I have seen a fire; perhaps I may bring to you from there some information, or a burning fire-brand that you may warm yourselves.” So when he reached IT (THE FIRE), he was called from the right side of the valley, in the blessed place FROM THE TREE: “O Musa (Moses)! Verily! I AM ALLAH, the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!” S. 28:29-30 Hilali-Khan
So here we have William’s god managing to squeeze himself inside a fire and within a tree!
There’s a lot more. According to specific traditions, Allah actually appeared to Muhammad as a man and physically touched Muhammad with the palms of his very own hands:
Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A’ish
Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I SAW MY LORD, the Exalted and Glorious IN THE MOST BEAUTIFUL FORM. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: ‘Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.’ (6:75)
Darimi reported it in a mursal form and Tirmidhi also reported. (Tirmidhi Hadith, Number 237- ALIM Online Version)
Narrated Mu’adh ibn Jabal
Allah’s Messenger was detained one morning from observing the dawn prayer (in congregation) along with us till the sun had almost appeared on the horizon. He then came out hurriedly and Iqamah for prayer was observed and he conducted it (prayer) in brief form. When he had concluded the prayer by saying As-salamu alaykum wa Rahmatullah, he called out to us saying: Remain in your places as you were. Then turning to us he said: I am going to tell you what detained me from you (on account of which I could not join you in the prayer) in the morning. I got up in the night and performed ablution and observed the prayer as had been ordained for me. I dozed in my prayer till I was overcome by (sleep) and lo, I FOUND MYSELF IN THE PRESENCE OF MY LORD, the Blessed and the Glorious, iIN THE BEST FORM. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What these highest angels contend about? I said: I do not know. He repeated it thrice. He said: Then I saw Him put HIS PALMS between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of His fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I could recognize everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? I said: Going on foot to join congregational prayers, sitting in the mosques after the prayers, performing ablution well despite difficulties. He again said: Then what do they contend? I said: In regard to the ranks. He said: What are these? I said: Providing of food, speaking gently, observing the prayer when the people are asleep. He again said to me: Beg (Your Lord) and say: O Allah, I beg of Thee (power) to do good deeds, and abandon abominable deeds, to love the poor, that Thou forgive me and show mercy to me and when Thou intendst to put people to trial Thou causes me to die unblemished and I beg of Thee Thy love and the love of one who loves Thee and the love for the deed which brings me near to Thy love. Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: It is a truth, so learn it and teach it.
Transmitted by Ahmad, Tirmidhi who said: This is a hasan sahih hadith and I asked Muhammad ibn Isma’il about this hadith and he said: It is a sahih hadith. (Tirmidhi Hadith, Number 245; ALIM Online Version)
Ibn Abbas reported that the Prophet said: My Lord came to me in the best FORM, whilst I was asleep, and said: O Muhammad, do you know what the angelic assembly is disputing about? I said: I do not! Then Allah placed HIS HAND between my shoulders until I felt Its coolness in my chest and I became aware of what was happening in Heaven and on earth… (Tirmidhi, 43, as cited in Dr. Abdul Khaliq Kazi & Dr. Alan B. Day, trans., Al-Ahadith Al-Qudsiyyah – Divine Narratives [Dar Al Kitab Arabi – USA, 1995], pp. 82-83)
To top it all of, Allah will even shake hands with people on the Day of Judgment!
104. ‘Ubayy b. Ka’b (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah’s Messenger said, “The FIRST PERSON with whom Allah WILL SHAKE HANDS (on the Day of Judgment), will be ‘Umar; and he will be the first man to whom Allah will pay salutation (say: Assalamu ‘alaika) and he will be the first man whom He will hold WITH HIS HAND and make him enter the Paradise.” (Sunan Ibn-I-Majah (Imam Abu Abdullah Muhammad b. Yazid Ibn-I-Maja Al-Qazwini), English version by Muhammad Tufail Ansari [Kazi Publications, Lahore (Pakistan), 1st edition 1993], Volume 1, Chapter NO. XI. Excellent Qualities of the Companions of Allah’s Messenger, (ii) Excellence of ‘Umar, Hadith Number 104, p. 60; underline emphasis ours)
He will also unveil his shin!
“The Day that THE SHIN SHALL BE LAID BARE, and they shall be summoned to prostrate, but they shall not be able,-” S. 68:42
According to the ahadith the Shin refers to Allah’s Shin:
Narrated Abu Said:
I heard the Prophet saying, “ALLAH WILL LAY BARE HIS SHIN, and then all the believers, men and women, will prostrate themselves before Him; but there will remain those who used to prostrate in the world for showing off and for gaining good reputation. Such a one will try to prostrate himself (on the Day of Judgment) but his back (bones) will become a single (vertebra) bone (so he will not be able to prostrate).” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 441, by Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D., Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan in The Noble Quran English Translation of the Meanings and Commentary [King Fahd Complex for the printing of the Holy Qur’an, Madinah, K.S.A.], p. 779, f. 1a; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Narrated Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri:
… Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, ‘I am your Lord,’ and they will say, ‘You are not our Lord.’ And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, ‘Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?’ They will say. ‘THE SHIN,’ AND SO ALLAH WILL THEN UNCOVER HIS SHIN whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation… (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 532s)
In a book commonly held to be authored by Sunni Muslim scholar, Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, “Kitab Al-Sunnah,” we find the following interesting narrations:
… when He Most Blessed and Exalted sits on the Kursi [throne], A SQUEAK IS HEARD like the squeak of a new leather saddle. (Ibid., Volume 1, p. 301 – Ibn al-Qayyim Publishing House, published in two volumes, Dammam, Saudi Arabia, 1986; bold emphasis ours)
Allah wrote the Torah for Moses WITH HIS HAND while leaning back on a rock, on tablets of pearl, and the screech of the quill could be heard. There was no veil between Him and him… (Ibid., Volume 1, p. 294; bold emphasis ours)
The angels were created from the light OF HIS TWO ELBOWS AND CHEST… (Ibid., Volume 2, p. 510; bold emphasis ours)
(The preceding quotes taken from the “Understanding Islam” website)
So Williams, according to your best sources your god has hands, elbows, feet, shins, makes a throne squeak from his body weight etc.!
And now pay careful attention to what the following Muslim translator states in relation to Allah having a face, hands etc.:
[1] All that has been revealed in Allah’s Book [the Qur’an] as regards the [Sifat…] Qualities of Allah…, the Most High,- like His Face, Eyes, Hands, Shins, (Legs), His Coming, His Istawa (rising over) His Throne and others; His Qualities or all that Allah’s Messenger… qualified Him in the true authentic Prophet’s Ahadith (narrations) as regards His Qualities like [Nuzul… His Descent or His laughing and others etc. The religious scholars of the Qur’an and the Sunna believe in these Qualities of Allah and they confirm that these are really His Qualities, without Ta’wil… (interpreting their meanings into different things etc.) or Tashbih… (giving resemblance or similarity to any of the creatures) or Ta’til… (i.e. completely ignoring or denying them i.e. there is no Face, or Eyes or Hands, or Shins etc. for Allah). These Qualities befit or suit only Allah Alone, and He does not resemble any of (His) creatures. As Allah’s Statements (in the Qur’an): (1) “There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer” (V.42:11). (2) There is none comparable unto Him (V.112:4). (Al-Imam Zain-ud-Din Ahmad bin Abdul Lateef Az-Zubaidi, The Translation of the Meanings of Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari Arabic-English, Translated by: Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan [Maktaba Dar-us-Salam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh Saudi Arabia], p. 842)
This next quote is quite interesting. After mentioning those who seek the face of Allah, the author writes:
… Meaning they want to see Allah’s face (because that is the greatest pleasure for the people of Paradise). The Qur’an and the Sunnah affirm that Allah has a face, two hands, fingers, and two eyes. Some people deny these attributes because they incorrectly suppose that by affirming them they are humanizing Allah. Such an argument is only valid for those who would say, for example, “Allah has hands like ours (?)” Such a statement is not allowed because it qualifies Allah’s attributes without evidence from the Qur’an or the Sunnah. It would also be in contradiction to the Qur’anic verse: . Thus we must affirm the attributes that Allah, and/or his Messenger have affirmed; we must believe that these attributes befit the Magnificence, and Glory of Allah; and we are not allowed to qualify these attributes unless Allah, and/or his Messenger have done so for us. (Waleed K.S. Al-Essa, Authentic Supplications Of the Prophet [A Daar of Islamic Heritage Publication, P.O. Box 831415, Miami, FL. 33283, 1993], p. 59, n. 145; bold emphasis ours)
Moreover, Allah has also granted his angels the ability to assume the likeness of men:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
One day while Allah’s Apostle was sitting with the people, A MAN CAME TO HIM, WALKING and said, “O Allah’s Apostle. What is Belief?” The Prophet said, “Belief is to believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the meeting with Him, and to believe in the Resurrection.” The man asked, “O Allah’s Apostle What is Islam?” The Prophet replied, “Islam is to worship Allah and not worship anything besides Him, to offer prayers perfectly, to pay the (compulsory) charity i.e. Zakat and to fast the month of Ramadan.” The man again asked, “O Allah’s Apostle What is Ihsan (i.e. perfection or Benevolence)?” The Prophet said, “Ihsan is to worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you do not achieve this state of devotion, then (take it for granted that) Allah sees you.” The man further asked, “O Allah’s Apostle When will the Hour be established?”
The Prophet replied, “The one who is asked about it does not know more than the questioner does, but I will describe to you its portents. When the lady slave gives birth to her mistress, that will be of its portents; when the bare-footed naked people become the chiefs of the people, that will be of its portents. The Hour is one of five things which nobody knows except Allah. Verily, the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). He sends down the rain, and knows that which is in the wombs.” (31.34) Then the man left. The Prophet said, “Call him back to me.” They went to call him back but could not see him. The Prophet said, “THAT WAS GABRIEL who came to teach the people their religion.” (See Hadith No. 47 Vol 1) (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 300)
Narrated Abu ‘Uthman:
I was informed that Gabriel came to the Prophet while Um Salama was with him. Gabriel started talking (to the Prophet). Then the Prophet asked Um Salama, “Who is this?” She replied, “HE IS DIHYA (AL-KALBI).” When Gabriel had left, Um Salama said, “By Allah, I did not take him for anybody other than him (i.e. Dihya) till I heard the sermon of the Prophet wherein he informed about the news of Gabriel.” The subnarrator asked Abu ‘Uthman: From whom have you heard that? Abu ‘Uthman said: From Usama bin Zaid. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 503)
Even Allah’s Spirit is capable of assuming the form of a man:
And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East, And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her OUR SPIRIT (Roohana) and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God-fearing. He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, THAT I MAY BESTOW ON THEE a faultless son. S. 19:16-19 Pickthall
Not only does the Spirit appear as a perfect man, he even has the ability to create life since the text clearly says that he came for the specific purpose of giving Mary a faultless son! So much for the Muslim lie that Islam teaches absolute unitarianism.
Now if angels, which are creatures, are capable of appearing as men then surely Allah must be able to do likewise; that is, unless a Muslim wants to believe that angels are capable of doing something that Allah cannot do, and are therefore greater than their own lord! Moreover, to say that Allah can’t appear in human form implies that he doesn’t have power to do everything, which contradicts the plain teaching of the Quran which claims that he does!
A Muslim may concede that it is possible for Allah to appear as a man in light of the Quran’s teaching that he has the ability to do anything, but contend that it is beneath the majesty of Allah to do so. The problem we have with this claim is that the Quran states that it wasn’t beneath the dignity of Allah to assume the appearance of fire, a substance which is obviously inferior to man in worth since even the Quran agrees that humans have been honored and dignified by Allah:
We have honoured the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours, above a great part of our creation. S. 17:70 Y. Ali
The Quran also says that man has been made in the best stature and has been appointed ruler (khalifah) in the earth:
And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy (khaleefatan) in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not. S. 2:30 Pickthall
It is He who has appointed you viceroys (khala-ifa) in the earth, and has raised some of you in rank above others, that He may try you in what He has given you. Surely thy Lord is swift in retribution; and surely He is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. S. 6:165 Arberry – cf. 7:129; 10:14; 27:62
Verily, We created man of the best stature (mould), S. 95:4 Hilali-Khan
And according to the hadith literature Allah made man in his own (divine) image:
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His own image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said: Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said: May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of “Mercy of Allah.” So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adam, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day. (Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6809)
In light of this, why should it be deemed dishonorable for Allah to assume the likeness of humanity when it wasn’t beneath him to assume the form of something less than man?
Moreover, why wasn’t it beneath the dignity of the Spirit or angels to assume human likeness?
You see Williams what happens to you every time you open your mouth to slander and blaspheme your God and Savior, Jesus Christ, Muhammad’s Lord and Judge?
Lord willing, I will eventually write an article responding to your blasphemous garbage concerning God becoming Satan. In the meantime, think before your open your blasphemous mouth next time you run into a Christian brother or sister, since know for certain that I will be watching you closely to nail you any time you do.
Enjoy!
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General Troll, if “I got daddy issues” is one of Islam’s greatest apologists then it is only a matter of time before Islam is effaced from God’s green earth, since people like him do a great of job of showing how vile and evil Islam is, and therefore is a great help in causing Muslims to leave Muhammad for the beauty and majesty of Jesus! 😉
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Sam I am amused but well past being shocked that you, of all people, can criticise others. You are universally regarded as a foul mouthed, disgusting person with chronic mental health problems which are evident for all the world to see. I know how your wife despairs of your obsession with Muslims and Islam. I have seen first hand evidence of her despair and frustration about you (poor woman). I will not make it public because i respect her privacy.
To conclude, you are one of the best recruiting sergeants for dawah in the West. I have encountered numerous Muslims who have been incited to defend the truth of their religion by reading your dreadful and silly diatribes.
So in a way I’m grateful to you Sam! You have benefited the ummah in many ways. You are the necessary evil that God in His wisdom has turned around for the good of Islam, its apologetics and its dawah.
🙂
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Gee, I am shocked that Williams decided to assault my character and my beloved wife instead of defending his blasphemous lies against the true God, and refuting the evidence I marshaled to expose his god for what he truly is! I am shocked I tell ya!
Williams, you need to stop whining whenever I give you blasphemers a taste of your own medicine. In fact, by condemning me for treating you bullies the exact same way you treat the servants of the Lord Jesus you once again end up condemning Muhammad who not only insulted and humiliated people, but even went as far as to murder them in cold blood. So thank you for exposing yourself as an inconsistent Muhammadan Christophobe since, like I said, I will use your own words to condemn Muhammad. It is a shame that you do not see that you are the very evil which embodies Islam and which Muhammad perfectly displayed all throughout his whore-mongering, murdering life.
To end this discussion which you again cowered away from, I want to hihgly encourage you to keep up the great work of exposing Islam for the evil, inconsistent blood thirsty religion it truly is, since you and “daddy issues” are a great tool in the hands of Christians like Jay Smith in showing just how ugly Muhammad looks in the light of the beauty and majesty of the Lord Jesus, Muhammad’s God and Judge!
Like I said, enjoy!
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Sam instead of pouring out your filth you should give more time and attention to your long suffering wife (and children).
But do not worry, if you decide to be a good husband, God can still use you again in the future to raise up yet another generation of young muslim daewah carriers.
I just love it how the Lord and Creator of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad can use even the most sick and twisted of his creatures to further his purposes in the world.
May Allah continue to use you Sam!
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hihgly=highly
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NEVER says=Never say.
Do pardon all the typos I hardly bother to take time enough in producing my response to your garbage since, frankly, your posts are not worth me wasting more time than is required to silence you.
Like I said, keep up the great work of helping Muslims to turn away from Muhammad and to embrace the beauty of the Lord Jesus Christ, your God and Muhammad’s judge.
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Paul, instead of being concerned with my wife who is with me make sure to do everything you can to curtail your desires for your Muslim roommate, lest you again post another article complaining about how Islam is not for you since your erotic feelings for your partner are just too much for you to handle. I guess Allah isn’t able to help you much lately. 😉
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May Allah, Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala, continue to use you mightily for His purposes on earth, above all in the spread of Islam. You have been a powerful if unwitting servant to His cause.
I pray also for your wife who has expressed her dismay and frustration at an absent husband obsessed by neurotic hatred for other religions. I pray she finds the husband she deserves.
Ameen. 🙂
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And may the risen Lord continue to expose and shame you until you repent of your lies and unnatural affections and embrace him as your Lord, and may he continue to use you to show others the kind of evil and wicked people Muhammad’s message produces!
Like I said, enjoy! 😉
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Man, is that all you can say? Is that the same Allah who can do absolutely anything and everything, even become Satan himself? However, seeing that Allah couldn’t save you from your unnatural affections and let you humiliate yourself in public by confessing your sins for all to read, don’t bank on Allah using anyone to do anything. The good thing is that at least the husband that my wife deserves won’t be the one that you are in love with, so you have no fear of losing him to my wife. You can thank your Allah for that! 😉
Anyway, you can get the last word in since I know my rebuttal hit a nerve with you, which is why you are left responding with your nasty vitriol, which only exposes what is in your heart.
Lord willing, I return to writing more rebuttals exposing you and your cronies for following a false prophet. In the meantime, enjoy your shellacking since I know I sure did!
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Yes Sam can be fun to watch. A psychologist’s dream. But a wife’s nightmare 😦
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Paul, I do wonder if Sam suffers from multiple personality disorder? Take for example, this comment by him:
“Do pardon all the typos I hardly bother to take time enough in producing my response to your garbage since, frankly, your posts are not worth me wasting more time than is required to silence you.”
He doesn’t bother with you, because he considers you a waste of his time, but spends his time posting comments on your blog quite often. It’s almost as if he is a man of two minds. He is quite obsessed with you and your personal life. How is it he can consider your comments garbage, when in the same breath he says he considers you intelligent?
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“Anyway, you can get the last word in since I know my rebuttal hit a nerve with you, which is why you are left responding with your nasty vitriol, which only exposes what is in your heart.”
THE IRONY.
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I did my counselling presentation on Sam. I wonder if I have the video I put together with his comments. I shall search for it and upload it, God willing. I presented him as a person suffering from depression and sociopathy. The psychology lecturer asked me in the question and answer following my presentation, if I had caricatured someone, as opposed to doing an actual case study. She did not believe I knew such a person. So I showed her some email chains I was BCC’d in, and I ended getting good marks for that presentation.
I later did a workshop with the Faculty of Social Sciences on Domestic Violence, and this was around the time that Sam left his sick daughter in the hospital to argue on Paltalk. I worried that his wife and children were suffering at the hands of an intolerant abuser who could not differentiate between reality and the psychosomatic scenarios he inflicted upon himself in regard to non-believers. I approached the psychologist, asking if he exhibited any signs of being an abuser and she did confirm this due to his impulse control issues.
I do fear for his children and for his wife’s safety. Let us not forget the emails she sent.
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Paul could you please demonstrate that allah has a nature from Islamic sources? Forgive my bluntness perhaps Islam is not your first relegion, or you had poor dawah training.
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General Troll
you wrote: ‘Paul could you please demonstrate that allah has a nature from Islamic sources? Forgive my bluntness perhaps Islam is not your first relegion [sic], or you had poor dawah training.’
You are right – I had poor dawah training. Btw thanks for the intelligible question. Makes a nice change. Though your spelling is still that of a 10 year old it is still readable.
Thanks 🙂
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Sam Shamoun
You said;
Here are some more goodies for Williams. Since I have already established from the Quran that Allah can do absolutely anything and everything, and that there isn’t anything that the Quran says Allah CANNOT do, it shouldn’t therefore come as a surprise that the Muslim scripture has Allah appearing in a fire that set a blaze a specific tree:
When he saw a fire, and said to his family, ‘Tarry you here; I observe a fire. Perhaps I shall bring you a brand from it, or I shall find at the fire guidance.’ When he came to IT, A VOICE CRIED, ‘Moses, I AM THY LORD; put off thy shoes; thou art in the holy valley, Towa. I Myself have chosen thee; therefore give thou ear to this revelation. S. 20:10-13 Arberry
I say;
You are really an ass-hole indeed. What has this verse got to do with God can or cannot to all things? In a rush to criticize Islam you reduce yourself to fool without any formal Bible, Islamic, Quran, Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek study or a college or university diploma, certificate, degree etc. You have nothing, I mean Zero, 0 qualification to be any credible in theology. I pity those Christians who listen to your lies and half truths and kept you in their payroll. You are really misleading them(Christians) by your cheap polemics like “Allah is a deceiver” without checking the Bible to see that God of the Bible is the greatest deceiver of all.
Now your argument is that because Allah said He can do all things in the Quran so He can become a Satan. Sam Shamoun, you are so stupid and idiot that you did not check your own Bible which also said your God of the Bible can do anything before attacking Islam.
This are some of the verses that says the God of the Bible can to everything. You stupid fool Sam Shamoun, brother of the devil. You evil one.
Mathew 19:26
New International Version
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
New Living Translation
Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.”
English Standard Version
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Sam, you are so fool in that you do not check your Bible first before attacking Islam. You can talk this shit to your Christians who do not research but to listen to you an uneducated theologian for them. You cannot do it here to any Muslims because your lies will be exposed because our Quran tells us to research and find the truth
Ephesians 3:20
God can do anything, you know-far more than you could ever imagine or guess or request in your wildest dreams! He does it not by pushing us around but by working within us, his spirit deeply and gently within us.
Mr. Sam in your Bible God can do anything so next time check it before attacking Islam.
Thanks
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Sam Shamoun
You said;
Now if angels, which are creatures, are capable of appearing as men then surely Allah must be able to do likewise; that is, unless a Muslim wants to believe that angels are capable of doing something that Allah cannot do, and are therefore greater than their own lord! Moreover, to say that Allah can’t appear in human form implies that he doesn’t have power to do everything, which contradicts the plain teaching of the Quran which claims that he does!
I say;
appear as men does not mean become man. You fool. If the angel became man, then he is no more angel. But the angel did not became man but appeared as man. You fool.
Besides, an angel is a creation of the creator, so God can manipulate him the way he likes. God cannot become a man. If Jesus is God and appeared like man, then Jesus is still God and he should be able to tell us the day of judgement. Why? Because he is still God but just appeared as God. Jesus was not able to provide us with the end date, so he is not God who appeared as man at all.
You quoted some dreams in hadith forms to attack Islam. You are stupid indeed. Some of the hadith needs interpretation by those who know Arabic and the science of hadith and who have spent years in Islamic school but not you. You can interpret your nonsense to Christians but not Muslims. We need logic here but not your interpretation because you have zero qualification in theology. We need and explanation why a God(creator) can become Man(created) but not your interpretation of hadiths. We do not need that.
Explain to us why you worship 3 Persons/persons and each is a being with consciousness and intellect. It means you are worshiping 3 beings either 3 divine beings or combination of 3 divine and human beings. This thinking has nothing to do with theology or hadith interpretation but logic and common sense. Come on explain to us why you are worshiping 3 people and it is obviously idol worshiping and polytheism. That is what we want here but not interpretation of Quran and hadith which you have no qualification of. You can do the silly interpretation to your Christians who do not research but not here or to any Muslim because it is fool of lies and distortions.
Thanks.
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correction
the last sentence must read
it is full of lies and distortions. I mistook it to be the fool Sam Shamoun.
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” in the hope of eternal life that God, who NEVER lies, promised before the ages began—” Titus 1:2 NRSV
He told people to lie(Ex. 3:18, 1 Sam. 16:2); He lied (Gen 2:17, 2 Sam. 7:13); He rewarded liars (Ex. 1:15-20);
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Ijaz Ahmad, when Sam said “non-intellect” he was talking about the user who goes by the name of “Intellect”. He didn’t call you a non-intellectual. By the way if both you guys want to talk about personal stuff, leave that for your own private discussions and emails. We don’t all need to read that.
Anyway, Sam gave a very good explanation about Muhammad’s war crimes, backed by Quranic verses and hadiths which you have not dealt with. Whenever a Christian tries to explain these things a Muslim will always go “well your scriptures has the same thing” or try to play down how serious the matter is by saying something like “you merely mentioned that a prophet of God fought wars”. No, that’s not all it is. The wars that David and others fought are nothing like how Muhammad did them.
Caravan raids are criminal activity, and Muhammad who is supposed to be a prophet sanctioned these in the name of God, most of the time on innocent tribes who had done nothing wrong to them.
I’ve noticed that many Muslims on here are very fast to criticise Christians and their beliefs whilst never really dealing with issues in their own religion. It seems you use criticism of Christianity as a way of feeling better about your own faith. All you Muslims on here should read your Quran more and examine the verses that tell you to respect believers from the people of the books and not to argue with them expect in ways that are better for both of you.
Also regardless of the name, General Troll actually raised a good point. The Quran doesn’t say that it is impossible for Allah to have a son, it merely states that he would not do such a thing because it is above his majesty.
Surah 39:4
Sahih International
If Allah had intended to take a son, He could have chosen from what He creates whatever He willed. Exalted is He; He is Allah , the One, the Prevailing.
Yusuf Ali
Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.
[see also Surah 4:171]
Strangely enough, the reason why Allah does not have a son has nothing to do with what modern day Muslims mention in debates about God and His nature etc. the Quran in Surah 6:101 says “How can He have a son when He has no consort?” There is nothing mentioned in the Quran about Allah not having a son because it is against his nature or whatever else Muslims says. If you’re going to argue for God/Allah you need to be consistent with your own scriptures. I’d argue that the Quran isn’t even consistent with itself because in passages such as Surah 4:171 and 21:91 it clearly describes the conception of Jesus in a virgins womb by the breath of God through His Spirit without the need of a consort, in a similar way to how the process is described in the gospel of Luke. The only difference being that Luke goes on to say “for this reason he shall be known as the son of the Most High God”.
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How do you view the genocide against innocent men women children babies and animals in 1Samuel 15? Comfortable with it?
The utter hypocrisy of some Christians like you and Shamoun is shameless.
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“Anyway, Sam gave a very good explanation about Muhammad’s war crimes, backed by Quranic verses and hadiths which you have not dealt with.”
Completely off-topic.
I agree with Paul Williams: “A very revealing exchange. It taught me that this missionary is less concerned with honesty and truth than with gaining fundamentalist supremacy over Muslims.”
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Paul you didn’t even given me a chance to reply yet you call me a hypocrite already. And you just confirmed exactly what I said before, whenever Christians talk about issues within Islam you are very quick to point to something in our scriptures without taking the time to respond to the questions about your own.
Anyway in terms of the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15, the reason behind the sanction by God is historical. It was not just some random attack on innocent people for no reason as we see in Muhammad’s caravan raids. 1 Samuel 15:2 “This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.”
I’m not shying away from the difficulty of the question but to understand the reason behind God saying this you need to go back to the historical context found in the Torah. If you isolate 1 Samuel 15 by itself then of course it sounds terrible and evil. First of all, the Amalekites were a brutal nomadic people who lived nearby to the Canaanites. They fought the Israelites in an unprovoked attacked whilst the Israelites were still wondering in the desert, long before they reached the land of Canaan that God had promised them in both the Bible and Quran. Exodus 17:8 – The Amalekites came and attacked the Israelites at Rephidim… 13 so Joshua overcame the Amalekite army with the sword. 14 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the name of Amalek from under heaven.”15 Moses built an altar and called it The LORD is my Banner. 16 He said, “Because hands were lifted up against the throne of the LORD, the LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation.”
This happened on numerous occasions as we see:
Numbers 14:45 – Then the Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in that hill country came down and attacked them and beat them down all the way to Hormah.
Judges 3:13 – Getting the Ammonites and Amalekites to join him, Eglon came and attacked Israel, and they took possession of the City of Palms.
Judges 6:3 – Whenever the Israelites planted their crops, the Midianites, Amalekites and other eastern peoples invaded the country.
Finally, In Deuteronomy 25:17-19 God said that one day He will remove the name of Amalek for all that he did to the Israelites – “Remember what the Amalekites did to you along the way when you came out of Egypt. When you were weary and worn out, they met you on your journey and attacked all who were lagging behind; they had no fear of God. When the LORD your God gives you rest from all the enemies around you in the land he is giving you to possess as an inheritance, you shall blot out the name of Amalek from under heaven. Do not forget!”
Taking Exodus 17:14-16 and Deuteronomy 25:17-19 together, you see that God made a decree and a promise that one day He will punish the Amalekites and in Deuteronomy 25 He specifically gives a time for this, when the Israelites are at rest from enemies around them in the land that they possess. This just happened to take place at the time of King Saul and the prophet Samuel. When God makes a promise about something He doesn’t change it, we have no idea how He felt in doing this. He could have been saddened by the consequences of Amalek’s evil just as with the flood in the time of Noah, but we also do not know the fate of those who died when God made this command. For all we know He could have brought them up to heaven as they were not responsible for Amalek’s evil.
By the way in Surah 18:74, a mysterious man called Al-Khidr kills an innocent little boy in front of Moses because he was apparently going to become a bad person in the future (Surah 18:80-81).
Surah 18:74 – So they set out, until when they met a boy, al-Khidhr killed him. [Moses] said, “Have you killed a pure soul for other than [having killed] a soul? You have certainly done a deplorable thing.”
Surah 18:80-81 – And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared that he would overburden them by transgression and disbelief. So we intended that their Lord should substitute for them one better than him in purity and nearer to mercy.
This is also the understanding found in Ibn Kathir’s tafsir: It has been stated previously that this boy was playing with other boys in one of the towns, and that Al-Khidr deliberately singled him out. He was the finest and most handsome of them all, and Al-Khidr killed him. When Musa, peace be upon him, saw that he denounced him even more fervently than in the first case, and said hastily: (Have you killed an innocent person) meaning, a young person who had not yet committed any sin or done anything wrong, yet you killed him (without Nafs) with no reason for killing him. (Verily, you have committed a thing Nukr!) meaning, something that is clearly evil… (his parents were believers, and we feared he would oppress them by rebellion and disbelief) Their love for him might make them follow him in disbelief. Qatadah said, “His parents rejoiced when he was born and grieved for him when he was killed. If he had stayed alive, he would have been the cause of their doom. So let a man be content with the decree of Allah, for the decree of Allah for the believer, if he dislikes it, is better for him than if He were to decree something that he likes for him.”
Imagine God deciding to kill you right now because He knew the sins you would do in the future and then replacing you with someone better? None of us would be alive right now… are you comfortable with that?
And yes Burhan it was off topic but Sam was responding to Yahya Snow who mentioned all this stuff about welfare and money in the first place.
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Yes you are a hypocrite because you find all sorts of excuses for God ordering the killing of innocent children and babies but refuse to understand the historical context for the justifiable raids on the Meccan caravans. I have yet to meet a consistent Christian.
1 Samuel 15:2 “This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.”
But the guilty party in question lived 300 years before! How is it just to tell Israel to butcher innocent women and children for the crimes of their distant ancestors?
What crime had they committed that deserved such slaughter?
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“And yes Burhan it was off topic but Sam was responding to Yahya Snow who mentioned all this stuff about welfare and money in the first place.”
If God can do anything he can make Islam true.
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Paul wrote…
“You are right – I had poor dawah training. Btw thanks for the intelligible question. Makes a nice change. Though your spelling is still that of a 10 year old it is still readable.”
My response: And yet you still no answer to my question. I wonder why that is? Could it be that you can not defend the shirk you committed by claiming that allah has a nature, and that his attributes are in this nature?
Well at least your shirky response is not as bad as what seems to be the orthodox Islamic position held by Shadid Lewis which is, “Yes god can become a man, he can become a dog, he can fornicate he can lie… he is god he can do what he wants…he can come down to earth right now and fornicate, with a woman… who are we to say he can not he is god”… He then added “But thats not the question the question should be WOULD allah do this, and the answer is no because it is beneath his Majesty”
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I don’t bother conversing with trolls even if they call themselves general troll.
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Burhan said “If God can do anything he can make Islam true.”
Well, If God can do anything He can also have a son… Oh wait, He already said that “If Allah had intended to take a son, He could have chosen from what He creates whatever He willed. Exalted is He; He is Allah , the One, the Prevailing.” Surah 39:4, nice find Marvin I didn;t even know that verse existed. My Muslim mates never told me that. Taqqiyah maybe?
I bet if Muhammad was asked if God could become Satan he would drop to the floor, have a seizure and foam at the mouth and eventually come back to his senses with a new revelation saying “If Allah had so willed, He could have become Satan but far exalted is He! He is Allah, far too exalted is He”
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Paul, why do you always say you are yet to find a consistent Christian as though you are some kind of perfect human being. I can say the same thing about finding consistent Muslims because you certainly are not one.
I have not been trying to find all sorts of excuses, I mentioned that the question is a difficult one and also tried to gather my understanding from reading the scriptures and making sense of it. What have you done to explain the raids of Muhammad? Yes I am aware that some raids could be considered justified because some of those tribes did attack him and his followers particularly when he was at Mecca. However, in Medina when Muhammad rose to power and had no more need to carry out raids, he still did them anyway because his followers started getting greedy and he wanted to keep them happy. In order to do that, they attacked innocent tribes who just happened to be in their way. Many of them were Jewish tribes, is that perhaps the justification for attacking them?
Or how do you justify the Expedition of Usama bin Zayd where Muhammad whilst on his death bed, ordered Usama to invade Palestine and specifically commanded him to “Attack the people of Ubna early in the morning, and destroy them by fire!”
Also if you had paid attention to anything I wrote previously you’d see that I used Exodus 17:14-16 and Deuteronomy 25:17-19 that God had already ordained for this to occur at a later date, specifically when the Israelites were in a better position to carry it out. It just so happened to be at the time of Saul and Samuel. I am not afraid to admit that I don’t have all the answers or understanding of why it happened that way.
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It is a shame you seek to justify the brutal genocide of innocent people. If you were a consistently moral person you would condemn such a depiction of God as barbaric and cruel and unworthy of the Divine. But of course you do not. Till you aquire a moral compass about your own religion I cannot take anything you say seriously about other religions alleged behaviour.
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iSeeV
If God can do anything he can make you lose a bet.
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iSeeV
You said;
Burhan said “If God can do anything he can make Islam true.”
Well, If God can do anything He can also have a son… Oh wait, He already said that “If Allah had intended to take a son, He could have chosen from what He creates whatever He willed. Exalted is He; He is Allah , the One, the Prevailing.” Surah 39:4, nice find Marvin I didn;t even know that verse existed. My Muslim mates never told me that. Taqqiyah maybe?
I bet if Muhammad was asked if God could become Satan he would drop to the floor, have a seizure and foam at the mouth and eventually come back to his senses with a new revelation saying “If Allah had so willed, He could have become Satan but far exalted is He! He is Allah, far too exalted is He”
I say;Surah 39:4
Sahih International
If Allah had intended to take a son, He could have chosen from what He creates whatever He willed. Exalted is He; He is Allah , the One, the Prevailing.
Yusuf Ali
Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.
[see also Surah 4:171]
The verses said “If Allah had intended to take a son, He could have chosen from what He creates from what He creates”
It is talking of choosing from His creation but not begetting or having sex with Mary to have a Son and the Son becomes God. Not at all. He cannot do that because He is God i.e. Divine being and Mary is a Woman i.e. Human being. So, God created Sex, Son, Woman, Man and He God as a Creator cannot become those.
If you see an angel in its real form for now you will die or faint into unconsciousness because you cannot handle that creation and you are weak with limited capabilities to handle the creature angel.
In Brazil somebody was wrongly pronounce dead and buried by a police and his funeral and he did not die but the police were wrong because of his resemblance to the dead person.
Without the police knowing that and informing the family, this man appeared the funeral. People could not handle it, many people at the funeral fled and most fainted to unconsciousness and sent the hospital until the police announced that he was not the one who died. A man cannot handle his own ghost how can he(man) see a creature he is not familiar with. People run when they see a Big foot, Jinn, ufo, ancient alien etc. So, no one can see God even according to the Bible.
Why?
Because we are limited and weak to see God in our current creation. If we cannot see God how can God the creator become one of us? He cannot because He is a creator and we are His creation
He always exists but we came into existence and there was a time we do not exist and the Bible said He the Creator is One, Only and Alone Divine Being. Human beings are many as I can count the commenters here I.e. Paul, Mr. Henry, Sam, Troll and I have counted 4 human beings. We could not be One human being but many.
But the Bible said God is One and God is a being so He cannot be 3 beings or Person as our Christians want us to believe. If God is 3 Beings, and obviously every divine being or being has his own intellect and consciousness and so you are talking of 3 beings here and it polytheism and against the Bible.
God said He begets no one nor was He begotten in the Quran. Do you think God can be begotten? No because any begotten or a Son to a Father did not exist at some time but the Father exist. So, God always exists i.e. eternal and infinite, immortal etc. So God cannot beget or begotten because He always exists.
Any one or scripture that says God is begotten is a false prophet or corrupted scripture.
iSeeV, you said;
____________________
I bet if Muhammad was asked if God could become Satan he would drop to the floor, have a seizure and foam at the mouth and eventually come back to his senses with a new revelation saying “If Allah had so willed, He could have become Satan but far exalted is He! He is Allah, far too exalted is He”
___________________
Prophet Mohammed was a man, not 100% God 100% God so he can have a seizure and foam come out of his mouth. You are so fool to think a prophet will not suffer hardships including sickness. Read your Bible. Prophets in your Bible slept with their daughters and that is incest and condemned by the Bible itself. Apostle Paul was tortured and beheaded, Why did God not save him. Jesus Christ who is your God went to toilet to ease himself in a bathroom and was beaten to death and you still worship him as your God but so foolishly to ridicule some one prophet seizure.
There is a story of prophets becoming so sick that maggots are found in their body and there were so many prophets with different kind of sickness. You are not sick but stupid to ridicule a sick prophet.
Besides, some of your hadiths are not authentic and needs explanation by the experts.
Thanks.
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Trying to label me in such a way so as to avoid my questions and ignore everything else I’ve written… Nice one Paul.
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Dude you have no moral credibility. Try sorting out your own house before criticising other religions. You are like the Commandant of Auschwitz concentration camp criticising a Jew who is accused of stealing from another inmate. Look in the mirror first.
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Intellect you are too much of a reckless internet writer. You did not even ask me what my beliefs were, automatically assuming I’m a Christian. I’m agnostic so don’t go throwing weird things about the bible at me.
You did not take the time to read your scriptures as quoted by Marvin or Sam, for example Surah 4:171 and 21:91 describe the process of Jesus’ birth via gods spirit without the need to have sex with Mary. As far as I know, no Muslim or Christian has ever suggested that God could have sex with Mary to have a son. Except perhaps Muhammad in Surah 6:101, when he asks where Allahs consort is.
Take some time to sit down, read and think a bit more first before you spill multiple jargon everywhere.
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for the gifts and the calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.” Romans 11:29 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
” in the hope of eternal life that God, who NEVER lies, promised before the ages began—” Titus 1:2 NRSV
“if we are faithless, he remains faithful—for he CANNOT deny himself.” 2 Timothy 2:13 NRSV
“In the same way, when God desired to show even more clearly to the heirs of the promise the UNCHANGEABLE character of his purpose, he guaranteed it by an oath, so that through two UNCHANGEABLE things, in which it is IMPOSSIBLE that God would prove false, we who have taken refuge might be strongly encouraged to seize the hope set before us. ” Hebrews 6:17-18 NRSV
“No one, when tempted, should say, ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God CANNOT be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one.” James 1:13 NRSV
###########
Shamoun’s red herring is this
It is not enough for God to say that he is not or is X
He also (or those who are inspired by him) have to say he cannot
Personally, I find that a false dilemma. What God says of himself is necessarily so(by definition it is the case). If God is saying he only telling you the truth, he is necessarily making that claim.
Ironically, that is the understanding in Hebrews! Let us assume a very strong “inspiration” model and let us assume that Paul is the author.
Still…Shamoun (which I think is a weak objection) may say that this conflation is biblical. Ok then, Paul is only talking about a Promise and a Vow(and if you really want to be pedantic about the promise and vow to Abraham). Only in those two things it is impossible for God to lie. What about all the other statements where we do not have these “promises” and “vows”. Could God lie with those ? I think that would be a silly reading but Shamoun literalism does lead to this
The calling of God being irrevocable, does not imply on this reading that he cannot lie. My call can be irresistible but it still may be a lie. Again not clear
What about the fact that one cannot deny oneself? Again not clear! Leave aside that we are talking about the incarnate Jesus Christ here( on a Christian reading) I could still absolutely affirm myself as Faithful to a Father who says he does not lie but can lie. Similarly I could not deny this. Begging the question mate!
What about the fact that cannot be tempted by evil? Sorry.. The paradox returns with a vengeance. This God could have willed it that lying is good and therefore by definition he is not tempted by evil. You cannot on the Shamonian view conflate the can with the ought but here we are doing the same thing he thinks the Quran is deficient on
Finally In Titus we have a statement that says Got never lies. Seriously ? If I say I will never do something it does not imply I cannot do something. The former is a normative statement. Remember we are being “literal” here and I disagree with this because I think they do conflate at the level of God. Something that both I and the author of Hebrews seem to agree upon.
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Lol Paul you are so strange. When I first commented on this topic I mentioned that many of you Muslims here are fast to criticise Christians and our beliefs without dealing with issues of your own faith. Now you are saying the same thing back to me. Is that some kind of sarcastic joke?
Whatever man, I’ve clearly wasted my time here again.
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Lol yes you are wasting your and my time. You have failed to understand your hypocrisy and double standards which have been pointed out to you before it seems.
So blind.
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Marvin Henry If your God can do anything he can make you waste your time
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Lol Burhan, at least that’s one possibility in this discussion we can all agree on… Finally!
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To hammer this home
Major premise: God cannot be tempted by evil
Minor premise: lying is evil
Conclusion: God cannot be tempted to lie
This argument does not follow on a Shamonian reading. Why? It only implies that cannot lie if it is evil. Well.. This “evil” God chose to make lying good and he didn’t tell us about it. So when he says Lying is evil he is actually lying 🙂
This stupid conclusions follow from
1- A reading that claims if God says something of himself necessarily, it would not follow that it could not be contingent
2- Limits we set on a maximal being have to only be scriptural
This last point is fallacious as well. For example
Major premise: We cannot talk about scripture unless we use language
minor premise: the religion of Chrisitianity does come in a language
Conclusion : we can talk about the Chrisitianity scripture
Ok , what if we go with the view that impossible things are meaningless(William Lane Craig’s view)
We cannot talk about Gods limits in relation to these in the first place because we are not expressing anything meaningful. We cannot use a scripture based approach here because language comes before scripture. The limits of our language are the limits of scripture and we don’t need scripture to tell us that do we!
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Man, thinking about this literalist nut job Shamoun, it would imply that when God communicates to us in a language, we must be scripturally and not rationally informed that language is meaningful!
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Another thing ha ha.
Paul is telling an audience in Hebrews this
Major Premise: When God promises and vows he cannot lie
Minor Premise: God did such a thing with Abraham
Conclusion: His vow and promise to Abraham is necessarily true
Now, we must remember he is being “inspired” to tell the audience that when you read the passages where God says he promises and vows, it means by implication that he cannot break them.
Now Paul is implying this is not new information but something any believer should understand when he read the following phrase alone
I Promise X means (if it is applied to God) that it has to be true.
Obviously on the view of Shamoun it doesn’t. I could read such a statement in a scripture independently and still could reasonably hold the following view
I promise X does not imply that I cannot break the promise.
After all I could promise and still be able to lie. That is why according to him, when Allah in the Quran says that he is only saying true things ( I am paraphrasing here) he could still be lying. He has to say that I am saying truthful things and it is impossible for me to lie.
Well, if we understand Godly statements like this it would defeat the purpose of Paul bringing it up as evidence! To emphasis, the independent reader should reasonably come to the same conclusion that Paul has in Hebrews for this to be admissible as evidence. Since the “adversary” does so independently the idiotic literalist model of Shamoun fails
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iSeeV
You said;
Intellect you are too much of a reckless internet writer. You did not even ask me what my beliefs were, automatically assuming I’m a Christian. I’m agnostic so don’t go throwing weird things about the bible at me.
You did not take the time to read your scriptures as quoted by Marvin or Sam, for example Surah 4:171 and 21:91 describe the process of Jesus’ birth via gods spirit without the need to have sex with Mary. As far as I know, no Muslim or Christian has ever suggested that God could have sex with Mary to have a son. Except perhaps Muhammad in Surah 6:101, when he asks where Allahs consort is.
Take some time to sit down, read and think a bit more first before you spill multiple jargon everywhere.
I say;
If you are not an agnostic but not a Christian why did you copy from this idiot Sam Shamoun to ridicule a sick prophet of God? Before Mohammed as a prophet got sick, most prophets got sick and with one of the prophet becoming so sick that worms and maggots starts to appear from his body. It does not prevent him from being prophet of God. Jesus Christ as a God and prophet of Christians visited toilet and have some smelly shit and they( Christians) still worship this smelly shit as their God for this stupid and idiot Sam Shamoun to ridicule a sick prophet from an unauthentic hadith.
I am being reckless to only Sam Shamoun and General Troll. Ask Ken Temple, madmanna and Mr. Henry if I am reckless to them. I only point out the illogicalities of the Bible to them but not to be reckless to them. But Sam is reckless and a liar and fool uneducated and as far as he continues to be reckless without dialog, I will be reckless to him
Back to topic.
If Christians believe God did not have sext with Mary to conceive his Son/son with capital letters which is absent from the Greek language, why capitalize the Son of Jesus Christ and not capitalize the other sons of God in the Bible? The Christians believe Jesus is the only begotten Son. What does begotten mean? To have sex and procreate. That is what is mean. If the Christians to not mean that, why must they bring it(begotten) and some claim begotten not made. Begotten is always made unless it is metaphorical
My question to Christians is the Sonship or begotten of Jesus metaphorical or literal. It can either be metaphorical or literal but no middle grounds. If it is metaphorical, then Jesus is not the only begotten Son of God because in the Bible there are so many Sons of God.
If Jesus Sonship is not metaphorical then it is literal and indeed their God had sex with Mary to procreate His Son because that is what begotten mean. If they do not mean begotten, why did they bring the word begotten?
Why not buddies, friends, brothers, sisters etc. but Son who is begotten(had sex and gave birth to). If Christians do not want it, why is it there in their Bible? and it is not metaphorical like the other sons of God?
Remove the begotten Son and accept Jesus is not the only begotten Son in the Bible and case close. You cannot eat your cake and have it at the same time. Either Jesus is not the only begotten Son in the Bible but metaphorical like the other sons of God in the Bible or is a literal Son of God the Father, that makes him(Jesus) God because of the blood relationship he had with his Father God and that is why he is a hybrid creature God and Man at the same time. When the Christian God had sex with Mary, he begets Jesus Christ into God-Man and Trinitarians are worshiping this hybrid creature who is neither God nor Man but a hybrid creature.
Begotten means what it means begotten, if it is not metaphorical. If it is metaphorical, then Jesus is not the only begotten Son but if it is not metaphorical then it is what it is literal and it involves sex.
Thanks.
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Intellect I think you should change your name and leave that kind of name for someone else.
But on a good note, behind the difficulty in reading and understanding everything you said, you made a good point. Is Jesus the physical/literal son of God or metaphorical? That’s an interesting question for Christians.
But one last thing, you keep talking about the word “begotten”. It’s only found once, in John 3:16 I think and it’s actually an old English translation of the Greek word “monogenes” which can be understood in different ways. So basically, try to understand what that Greek word means and you might get closer to your answer. The Christians should do the same.
I’m glad I did not worship Jesus’ “shit”… Sounds awful if you ask me
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I have just noticed a lethal objection.
Remember, this raving right wing Bible Belt lunatic is using a scripture based attack on the Quran.
Major Premise: All statements about a maximal being have to be scripturally based
Minor Premise: The Quran informs us that God tells the truth but not that is impossible for God to lie
Conclusion: God in the Quran can lie
Right?
Ok, this implies we can only have information about a maximal being if we are informed about it scripturally. Independent rational evaluation will not do. This seems to have the bizarre implication that some informative statements from God are valid and others are not. In other words let us follow with is
Major Premise: When God informs us that he will not lie we cannot accept it because he could possibly lie
Minor Premise: God in the Quran informs in the Quran he does not lie
Conclusion: God could still lie
Here is the lethal objection
Major Premise: if God informs us that it is impossible to lie we accept the impossibility
Minor Premise: In the bible God informs us that it is impossible to lie
Conclusion: It is impossible for God to lie in the bible
That is enough. If being informed by the first statement is(God will not lie, as opposed to cannot) not enough, the virus will spread lethally to the second. How ?
What about this possibly. God can inform us that he cannot lie but he is lying and can lie.
How do we address this objection ? We cannot use a rational approach and we are therefore only left with a scripture based approach. It is not enough for God to tell us that it is impossible for him to lie, he must also inform is that he is not lying when he is saying it. In fact this goes on as infinitium
So we challenge Shamoun and his sycophants to provide us with one biblical verse which says that it is impossible for God to lie when he says it is impossible for him to lie. If we do not have any scriptural proof we are still left with this possibility!
No rational proof please!
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Unitarian, too many rabbit hole possibilities and impossibilities… It’s making my head hurt.
I’m guessing you’re not Christian even with that name. So are you Muslim or maybe agnostic? (Join the party :D)
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Crikey!!
I mention the ‘w’ word and that sHAMOUN guy has a few brain farts and winds up attacking people and the religion that Jesus p will follow upon his return.
Shamoun and all those other Joe Shamouns who have lost track of the topic. Read up please. Here are a few points
1. Allah is free from any imperfection. His name is Al Quddoos – this is mentioned in Surah Hashr thus clearly God is not going to be a man, devil or anything else other than God (everything other than God has imperfections).
http://wahiduddin.net/words/99_pages/quddus_4.htm
2. Perhaps some people are missing the point here, Paul came across a strange Trinitarian missionary called Jay Smith who claims his concept of a Trinitarian god can do anything and thus he was quietened with Paul’s questioning of can he become Satan. Trinitarians need not to get their underwear in a twist, all that happened was a stupid apologetic argument from 1 Trinitarian was shown to be just that, stupid. Unless you’re a subscriber to stupidity, why are you upset? Don’t be upset, if you’re not into stupidity.
3 Shamoun was talking about a Verse in the Quran. My advice for him is to read the Tafsir, here’s the relevant part from Tafsir Jalalalayn:
But when he reached it, he was called [with the following words]: ‘Blessed is he, that is to say, God bless him, who is in the fire, namely, Moses, and who is around it, namely, the angels — or vice-versa ([the verb] bāraka may be followed immediately by the direct object or by a preposition and then the direct object; [a noun such as] makān, ‘location’, is implied after fī, ‘in’, [sc. man fī makāni’l-nār, ‘who is in the area of the fire’]); and Glory be to God, the Lord of the Worlds — this is included in the call, and is meant to declare that God is above all evil [associations].
4. Sam ‘don’t mention welfare or else I will go ape’ Shamoun your wealth arguments have been crushed before, see:
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/was_wealth_a_motive_for_the_prophet_muhammad__peace_be_upon_him__to_fabricate_islam_
Don’t spam this site with your old and refuted arguments. You know you’re old arguments refuted dR James White:
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Ha ha! Yeah having a bit too much fun.
I am just saying that is enough for a religious scripture to inform us about the attributes of a creator. We rationally and linguistically know that, if such scripture was true, such a being could not lie and such a being would not do contradictory things (they are linguistically problematic)
Of course, we should look for errors and contradictions in such a scripture because rationally that is a defeater but obviously we do not have to have it spelt out in any scripture
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And I challenge Ijaz to finish off his next public debate like this:
Another point I want to address is that sad man attacking our mother Sauda. She was old and thus her metabolism was slower and she struggled with her movement. If anybody has older family members they will know that they do put on some weight especially if their movement is impaired.
Shamoun needs to have some self respect.
Also compare the Muslim apologists with Shamoun and his buddies.
Sami, Shadid, Bassam, Shabir and Ijaz all look like the type of shape active and healthy men of their age groups should be. Now look at the pre-cycling White, the Wood of 3 years ago, Rogers, Shamoun, etc..
Don’t play games Shamoun. You’ll get your fingers burnt…
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Crikey!!
I mention the ‘w’ word and that shamoun guy has a few brain farts and winds up attacking people and the religion that Jesus p will follow upon his return.
Shamoun and all those other Joe Shamouns who have lost track of the topic. Read up please. Here are a few points
1. Allah is free from any imperfection. His name is Al Quddoos – this is mentioned in Surah Hashr thus clearly God is not going to be a man, devil or anything else other than God (everything other than God has imperfections).
2. Perhaps some people are missing the point here, Paul came across a strange Trinitarian missionary called Jay Smith who claims his concept of a Trinitarian god can do anything and thus he was quietened with Paul’s questioning of can he become Satan. Trinitarians need not to get their underwear in a twist, all that happened was a stupid apologetic argument from 1 Trinitarian was shown to be just that, stupid. Unless you’re a subscriber to stupidity, why are you upset? Don’t be upset, if you’re not into stupidity.
3 Shamoun was talking about a Verse in the Quran. My advice for him is to read the Tafsir, here’s the relevant part from Tafsir Jalalalayn:
But when he reached it, he was called [with the following words]: ‘Blessed is he, that is to say, God bless him, who is in the fire, namely, Moses, and who is around it, namely, the angels — or vice-versa ([the verb] bāraka may be followed immediately by the direct object or by a preposition and then the direct object; [a noun such as] makān, ‘location’, is implied after fī, ‘in’, [sc. man fī makāni’l-nār, ‘who is in the area of the fire’]); and Glory be to God, the Lord of the Worlds — this is included in the call, and is meant to declare that God is above all evil [associations].
4. Sam ‘don’t mention welfare or else I will go ape’ Shamoun your wealth arguments have been crushed before, see:
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/was_wealth_a_motive_for_the_prophet_muhammad__peace_be_upon_him__to_fabricate_islam_
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iSeeV
You said;
Intellect I think you should change your name and leave that kind of name for someone else.
But on a good note, behind the difficulty in reading and understanding everything you said, you made a good point. Is Jesus the physical/literal son of God or metaphorical? That’s an interesting question for Christians.
But one last thing, you keep talking about the word “begotten”. It’s only found once, in John 3:16 I think and it’s actually an old English translation of the Greek word “monogenes” which can be understood in different ways. So basically, try to understand what that Greek word means and you might get closer to your answer. The Christians should do the same.
I’m glad I did not worship Jesus’ “shit”… Sounds awful if you ask me
I say;
I am not English but learned the language to university level taking a technical course and so I have some flaws in that language and also due to the fact that I am working while blogging so I know sometimes I make mistakes and without spell check and grammar check I am in a hurry to reply and most people do understand the message I am trying to convey and it is lucid.
Back to topic.
It is the duty of Christians to come out with which Bible version is the correct one and which is not but not me, I am sorry Sir. There are so many Bible versions and some says “begotten Son” and some says “Unique Son”.
Which ever way, some Christians claim Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son” in dialog and begotten is what it means if it is not expressed metaphorical in that case it will disqualify Jesus as the only begotten Son in the Bible as there are many.
So the Quran or Mohammed is really correcting the Christians but not in error of understanding them as you claim. I will not be reckless to you now, since you will not copy from Sam Shamoun but interesting in brainstorming and understanding the truth.
Thanks
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haha thanks for that Intellect, I appreciate that English is not your first language and that you will no longer be reckless with me.
Yep, the difficulties in understanding just who Jesus is especially in the Christian scriptures.
Although I am agnostic, I am inclined to finding the truth in one of these Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity or Islam). Seems like each faith has a different view of who Jesus is. I am of course more familiar with the Christian ideas, like many Western agnostics would be.
Gosh, Jesus was such an enigma wasn’t he? All 3 faiths are pretty much fighting over who he is. No other prophet has this problem (Muhammad would probably be 2nd though).
And Unitarian, I’m slowly getting what you mean now lol. That’s one of the problems I have with all these scriptures that claim to be from a God who does not lie or make mistakes.
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“The calling of God being irrevocable, does not imply on this reading that he cannot lie. My call can be irresistible but it still may be a lie. Again not clear”
Obviously a mistake of mine. Should be, my call may be irrevocable (cannot be reversed) but it still may be a lie.
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“So we challenge Shamoun and his sycophants to provide us with one biblical verse which says that it is impossible for God to lie when he says it is impossible for him to lie. If we do not have any scriptural proof we are still left with this possibility!”
But if this was something we could observe or determin empirically we would not need the bible to tell us it is so. And if the bible tells us it is so you do not believe it.
Are you talking nonsense? Carry on, it is very amusing. Anything for a laugh.
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madmanna
You said;
@ intellect,
who said “You said you believe He is 3 beings i.e. 3 Divine beings means 3 Gods and it is polytheism according to Bible.”
But I said that the three beings are one being:
“I believe the three persons of the one God are one person and the one person of the one God is three persons. Or if you want to call them three beings the same applies.”
One being, one God. That is monotheism.
I say;
madmanna
You said you believe 3 beings are 1 being. Are you serious? It is illogical for 3 beings to be 1 being Sir.
You said;
One being, one God. That is monotheism.
I say;
No, Your One being comprises of 3 other beings, so it is not monotheism but polytheism.
madmanna, it is just like a judge asking me to provide only,one and alone witness being then I tell the judge that I believe 3 beings are one being, so I will provide all the 3 beings as one being as my witness.
You know what? The judge will order me to be taking to a psychiatric hospital for mental evaluation. How on earth can 3 beings are 1 being. In all seriousness, do not follow a blind faith like that. 3 beings are not 1 being Sir. 3 beings are 3 beings and 1 being is 1 being and God said clearly in the Bible He is One, Only and Alone and so He could not be counted as 3 in 1 at all.
One being One God that is monotheism= True
But
3 beings =1 being is absolutely false madmanna. Will you teach your Kindergarten kid 3 beings is 1 being? It is absolutely wrong and do not belief a blind faith like that this is completely blind madmanna.
You said;
You said : “The truth is that the Bible said God is
One
and we know God is a being
and God is divine so God is Only One divine being and he is alone.”
Men, angels and Allah all subsist in their own individual beings. As you have stated here.
Men and angels are like Allah in this respect.
But this cannot be true according to the Koran, your own holy book. So you must have a false belief.
[42.11] The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing is a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
I say
Please do not put words into my mouth as Sam Shamoun keeps doing
I did not say this
///////
Men, angels and Allah all subsist in their own individual beings. As you have stated here.
Men and angels are like Allah in this respect.
//////
Show me where I said the above please. If you do not show me where I said that, then you lied against me. I did not say that please. Again, madmanna I did not say the above. I did not say that, I did not say that please.
What I said is what I said this is it
//////
“The truth is that the Bible said God is One and we know God is a being
and God is divine so God is Only One divine being and he is alone.”
////////
Is God not divine?
Is God not a being?
Is God not One?
Is God not Only? according to the Bible?
Is God not Alone? according to the Bible.
Yes, God is all of the above and that is God is One, Only and Alone divine being. And not 3 beings 1 being because there is no where in the Bible does it say “3 beings 1 being” or “3 Persons 1 Person” or “3 Persons 1God” or “Trinity” or 3 in 1.
Please I am offended I never said this
///////
Men, angels and Allah all subsist in their own individual beings. As you have stated here.
Men and angels are like Allah in this respect.
//////
You lied that I said this in order to support your illogical and blind faith. Never put words in my mouth again like Sam Shamoun keeps doing. It is not good. It is bad I am really offended because I never said that.
Thanks
The Holy Bible clearly states that God is One and Alone and Only, but not with anyone.
“You alone, Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
“there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there “will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“You alone is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
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Madmanna, you are missing the point.
I agree it is enough for God to say that he is a necessarily truthful person or that he has power over all things.
By definition that would exclude him being a liar and by definition things do not include meaningless entities such as square triangles.
If I had asked you can God create ghhjhhff?
You would obviously say that it is a meaningless thing.
That is why, when presented with these absurdities, we do not ask God specifically to say
I have power over all things and I cannot create square triangles or meaningless phrases
That would be silly and that would be a crazy literalist view that leads to the absurdities mentioned.
I think that both the Quran and the bible intend a creator of this type.
Of course we can disagree with specifics of texts. We can claim that such and such scripture does have mistakes etc.
But that is different to this silly response
Muslim claim: the concept of a incarnate being who has separate but united opposing natures is contradictory
Christian claim: but your Allah, mooooon God yeeeehaaa, does not exclude square triangles when he says he has power over all things
Yeeeehaaa and now where is my next conspiratorial theory about Sharia law taking over the United States
(Please forgive the slight humour) he he
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Please I am offended I never said this
I never said that you did. Look where the quotation marks finish.
That was my logical inference from what you said here:
“Is God not divine?
Is God not a being?
Is God not One?
Is God not Only? according to the Bible?
Is God not Alone? according to the Bible.
Yes, God is all of the above and that is God is One, Only and Alone divine being. And not 3 beings 1 being because there is no where in the Bible does it say “3 beings 1 being” or “3 Persons 1 Person” or “3 Persons 1God” or “Trinity” or 3 in 1.”
this is my reply to this:
///////
Men, angels and Allah all subsist in their own individual beings. As you have stated here.
Men and angels are like Allah in this respect.
//////
But what your Koran says here proves that you are an infidel:
[42.11] The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing is a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
Is God not a being?
Is God not One?
Is God not Only? according to the Bible?
Is God not Alone?
All these things are also true of men and angels so you are claiming a likeness between them and Allah and this makes you an infidel according to the Koran.
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“And if the bible tells us it is so you do not believe ”
Actually, where does the bible say that he is not lying when he is saying “I am not a liar” or when he is saying “it is impossible for me to lie”
And how in the world empirically are you going to figure that one out ?!
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Yahya Snow wrote…
“Allah is free from any imperfection. His name is Al Quddoos – this is mentioned in Surah Hashr thus clearly God is not going to be a man, devil or anything else other than God (everything other than God has imperfections).”
My Question: Is this part of Allah’s nature?
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I see Paul Williams is on his “your god kills babies” rant lol. Funny he claims to be a Muslim but when I asked him a while ago if allah ordered him to kill babies and there was no doubt that this was allah would he kill babies”. His response was NO I would not worship such a God. So much for Paul Williams being a submitter. I wonder what Paul is going to do if he hears the rocks and trees cry out to him “There is a jew hiding behind me come and kill him”?
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God would never command anyone to kill a baby so I would always doubt my sanity rather than think he was telling me to do such an act. David Wood however has said that he would kill his neighbour’s baby if he felt God told him to. This is very worrying not least because Wood once tried to murder his father with a hammer. His dad survived the attack. Thank God.
Sad you think it is funny that God in your Bible orders the Jews to kill innocent women, children and babies in 1 Samuel 15. I think this is a massive problem for a conscientious Christian.
You either disown the Bible or believe in an immoral genocidal deity.
Which do you believe General Troll?
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You said;
Please I am offended I never said this
I never said that you did. Look where the quotation marks finish.
That was my logical inference from what you said here:
“Is God not divine?
Is God not a being?
Is God not One?
Is God not Only? according to the Bible?
Is God not Alone? according to the Bible.
Yes, God is all of the above and that is God is One, Only and Alone divine being. And not 3 beings 1 being because there is no where in the Bible does it say “3 beings 1 being” or “3 Persons 1 Person” or “3 Persons 1God” or “Trinity” or 3 in 1.”
this is my reply to this:
///////
Men, angels and Allah all subsist in their own individual beings. As you have stated here.
Men and angels are like Allah in this respect.
//////
I say;
I am glad you clarified to me now that I never said the above in slashes ////////. I never said that. That is your logical inference.
You are still in a big problem.
Why?
Read your Bible below.
.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
It is similar to this
[42.11] The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing is a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
I did not violate what both the Quran and the Bible are saying above but just believed in what the Bible is saying and I quoted below
“You alone, Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
“there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there “will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“You alone is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
And that is God is One, Only and Alone Divine Being according to the Bible.
madmanna you have violated your own Bible by saying and believing what is not described in the Bible pertaining to God and I list them below
1. 3 beings 1 being
2. God-Man
3. 3 Persons 1 God
4. 3 in 1
5. 3 Persons 1 Person
6. 3 People
7. worship man
8. Trinity
9. Hypostasis etc. I have more
All the above are man made are not God words but what man wants God to be and it is idolatry and or polytheism.
madmanna, it may sound joke here, but it is serious when you die and your creator becomes angry with you for not believing what He said in your own Bible but rather your own imagination of how you want him to be and it will be a big problem for you. You still have the chance to believe God is One, Only and Alone as clearly defined in the Bible and stop worshiping Jesus because he is not God and he does not know the end date as he said but Only the Father knows
You hear Jesus saying Only
You hear Jesus saying One
You hear Jesus saying God
All these saying he was not referring to himself but someone and that is a Muslim God the God of Jesus who is One, Only and Alone God of Abraham as clearly defined in the Bible so that we will stick to it like how Jews sometime ago will stick God is One on their forehead.
3 beings 1 being is nowhere in the Bible and so is Trinity, God-Man and the rest but you believe in those and discarded what the Bible clearly said.
You also said
Is God not a being?
Is God not One?
Is God not Only? according to the Bible?
Is God not Alone?
All these things are also true of men and angels so you are claiming a likeness between them and Allah and this makes you an infidel according to the Koran.
madmanna, if you are alone and your cat is alone does that mean you are like your cat? common lets be serious here and stop joking because all these involves burning in the hell fire.
If you are the only human being to be seen at the park and your dog is the only dog to be seen at he park, does that mean you are like your dog? or the only makes you a dog?
But the Bible clearly state God is One, Only and Alone, it is there in the Bible clearly written in so many chapters and it means God is not counted as you count Him as 3 in 1. 3 beings 1 being is nowhere in the Bible and it is wrong and not correct.
God exists so He is a being but not a human being or angelic being or satanic being but a Divine Being. Because Bible said He is One, Only and Alone we cannot count him like human beings who obviously are not one but many creations. We cannot say the Divine being is a collections of beings just like humans because He is One according to the Bible and Only and Alone so God cannot be a collection.
Thanks.
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Paul wrote…”God would never command anyone to kill a baby…”
My response: Why wouldn’t he? Because Paul Williams said so? Because it would offend Paul Williams? Because Paul Williams thinks its immoral? Even in Islam he commanded Abraham to kill his own son, even in Islam God destroyed Saddam and Gomorrah, even in Islam God destroyed the wicked with a flood. You don’t think there where babies then?
God well at least my God is the author of life, if he wants to command his creature to kill babies then why couldn’t he? God is killing babies right now every second of every day. That is by his will these babies die, a lot of them in excruciating, agonizing pain. Muslims will say that this is a test from allah, to kill babies in horrible agonizing ways. To which atheists respond “I will not believe in such a god that allows innocent babies to suffer and die”. So the only difference between your response and an atheists response is that the atheist is consistent, in that he does not believe in or submit to such a God. You on the other hand are inconsistent, in that you claim to believe in and submit to a God that kills innocent babies, and yet you find it morally repugnant that God has in history past ordered those who submit to him, to kill babies. So you should question your sanity for believing in God and judging him to be immoral and not submitting to him.
Paul Wrote…”so I would always doubt my sanity rather than think he was telling me to do such an act.”
My Response: Your sanity was not in the question. The point being that there is NO doubt this was God, speaking to you and others from the terrible voice, coming from the thick black smoke on the mountain. Second there is no doubt that Samuel was a prophet speaking for God. So by questioning your sanity you would be questioning God. So much for you being a submitter.
Paul Wrote…
“Sad you think it is funny that God in your Bible orders the Jews to kill innocent women, children and babies 1 Samuel 15. I think this is a massive problem for a conscientious Christian.”
My Response: No it is only a problem for people like you who Christ clearly has deliberately offended and cast out. John 6:37-51. Second you claim that the Amelikites where innocent? So your judgment is better then Gods judgment who judged them to be wicked and evil so much so that he declared that the land itself was vomiting them out? I guess in this case God doesn’t know, his prophet Samuel doesn’t know any better, and Paul Williams knows best.
The bottom line is this, your whole reasoning from emotion is terribly flawed for someone who claims he believes in a all knowing all powerful God, and who claims he is a “submitter to this God”, and then judges God and his prophet to be immoral.
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Perhaps you did not know but humans killing babies is called “M U R D E R” and the Quran and the sunnah prohibits this crime.
And like the good troll that you are you have failed to demonstrate how the Amalekites were guilty of any crime whatsoever. As a good fundamentalist you slavishly follow whatever atrocity is attributed to God in the OT, which is very embarrassing as the OT god is portrayed as a cold blooded genocidal killer. And you attempt justify mass murder!
It is haram in Islam to kill innocent people, be they babies, old folk or any non-combatants.
So I ask you once more to tell me precisely what was the heinous crime committed by the women, babies, children and animals who were run through with the sword?
Here is the passage again:
Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
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Paul wrote…
“Perhaps you did not know but humans killing babies is called “M U R D E R” and the Quran and the sunnah prohibits this crime.”
My Response: So you don’t have a problem with God killing babies, you just have a problem with God ordering the killing of babies. Well the God I worship has the lawful right to execute judgment on anyone at any time he does not need the approval of Paul Williams. So once again you are demonstrating that God must conform to you and get your approval instead of you conforming to God and getting his approval. That you are the source of what is moral not God.
Paul Wrote…
And like the good troll that you are you have failed to demonstrate how the Amalekites were guilty of any crime whatsoever. As a good fundamentalist you slavishly follow whatever atrocity is attributed to God in the OT, which is very embarrassing as the OT god is portrayed as a cold blooded genocidal killer. And you attempt justify mass murder!
My Response: I”m sorry I thought you knew of the sins of the Amalekites.
First it is enough for God just to say they are wicked and evil, he does not need your approval or understanding.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.” 15 And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, The Lord Is My Banner, 16 saying, “A hand upon the throne of the Lord! The Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.” (Exodus 17:14-16)
Here God tells Moses that he is going to “blot out” Amalek and Mosses says that God will make war with Amalek from generation to generation.
So you do believe that Mosses was a prophet right?
See I believe the prophet Mosses, I believe the prophet Samuel, I believe God. Clearly you do not.
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@Robert Wells from Michigan/ General Troll,
” Well the God I worship has the lawful right to execute judgment on anyone at any time he does not need the approval of Paul Williams. So once again you are demonstrating that God must conform to you and get your approval instead of you conforming to God and getting his approval. That you are the source of what is moral not God.”
Funny, ISIS says the same thing to nominal Muslims. You have quite the similar ideology.
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So you don’t believe that God has the lawful right to execute judgment on anyone at any time and he does not need the approval of Paul Williams?
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This is funny, the only way you can defend your god is to deny your god the sovereign right to execute judgment oh man that is good.
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not at all. I question a text that you think is historical fact that claims your god ordered the jews to kill innocent women, children babies and animals with the sword. You have repeatedly failed, like your coreligionists Jay Smith and attempted murderer David Wood – to explain why God would do this.
You worship a bloodthirsty and despotic maniac who ordered the slaughter of the innocent. And you have the gall to criticise Islam! lol
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Paul Williams wrote…
You worship a bloodthirsty and despotic maniac who ordered the slaughter of the innocent. And you have the gall to criticise[sic] Islam! lol
My Response: NO unlike you I have a sovereign LORD who does not need my approval to carry out his justice.
And the Lord said to Job:
“Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty?
He who argues with God, let him answer it.”
Then Job answered the Lord and said:
“Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you?
I lay my hand on my mouth.
I have spoken once, and I will not answer;
twice, but I will proceed no further.”
Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
“Dress for action like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.
Will you even put me in the wrong?
Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?
Have you an arm like God,
and can you thunder with a voice like his?
“Adorn yourself with majesty and dignity;
clothe yourself with glory and splendor.
Pour out the overflowings of your anger,
and look on everyone who is proud and abase him.
Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low
and tread down the wicked where they stand.
Hide them all in the dust together;
bind their faces in the world below.
Then will I also acknowledge to you
that your own right hand can save you.
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@Paul, does anyone think a God of love actually gave the command to “kill everything that breaths”, Deuteronomy 20:16? Nothing in the Qur’an compares to such a command. Somehow we’re worse though and our God is bloodthirsty…..consistency? Robert Mills working for tech support in Michigan (hey Google crawler, index this comment), would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so?
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Ijaz have you seen this? https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/08/15/christians-i-need-your-hrelp/
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General Trolls
You said;
So you don’t believe that God has the lawful right to execute judgment on anyone at any time and he does not need the approval of Paul Williams?
I say;
Ijaz had cleverly mentioned to you that, that what isis think and therefore you can join them. I am just repeating to you a clever advise by Ijaz so that you can join isis to continue executing God right to execute judgement to anyone at any time and does not need any ones approval and so you will be killing people and babies.
Thanks.
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madmanna
Paul, I beg your pardon, this is repost to madmanna, in case he had not read it or he does not have any answer put to worship man made God who is not in the Bible.
You said;
Please I am offended I never said this
I never said that you did. Look where the quotation marks finish.
That was my logical inference from what you said here:
“Is God not divine?
Is God not a being?
Is God not One?
Is God not Only? according to the Bible?
Is God not Alone? according to the Bible.
Yes, God is all of the above and that is God is One, Only and Alone divine being. And not 3 beings 1 being because there is no where in the Bible does it say “3 beings 1 being” or “3 Persons 1 Person” or “3 Persons 1God” or “Trinity” or 3 in 1.”
this is my reply to this:
///////
Men, angels and Allah all subsist in their own individual beings. As you have stated here.
Men and angels are like Allah in this respect.
//////
I say;
I am glad you clarified to me now that I never said the above in slashes ////////. I never said that. That is your logical inference.
You are still in a big problem.
Why?
Read your Bible below.
.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
It is similar to this
[42.11] The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing is a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
I did not violate what both the Quran and the Bible are saying above but just believed in what the Bible is saying and I quoted below
“You alone, Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
“there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there “will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“You alone is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
And that is God is One, Only and Alone Divine Being according to the Bible.
madmanna you have violated your own Bible by saying and believing what is not described in the Bible pertaining to God and I list them below
1. 3 beings 1 being
2. God-Man
3. 3 Persons 1 God
4. 3 in 1
5. 3 Persons 1 Person
6. 3 People
7. worship man
8. Trinity
9. Hypostasis etc. I have more
All the above are man made are not God words but what man wants God to be and it is idolatry and or polytheism.
madmanna, it may sound joke here, but it is serious when you die and your creator becomes angry with you for not believing what He said in your own Bible but rather your own imagination of how you want him to be and it will be a big problem for you. You still have the chance to believe God is One, Only and Alone as clearly defined in the Bible and stop worshiping Jesus because he is not God and he does not know the end date as he said but Only the Father knows
You hear Jesus saying Only
You hear Jesus saying One
You hear Jesus saying God
All these saying he was not referring to himself but someone and that is a Muslim God the God of Jesus who is One, Only and Alone God of Abraham as clearly defined in the Bible so that we will stick to it like how Jews sometime ago will stick God is One on their forehead.
3 beings 1 being is nowhere in the Bible and so is Trinity, God-Man and the rest but you believe in those and discarded what the Bible clearly said.
You also said
Is God not a being?
Is God not One?
Is God not Only? according to the Bible?
Is God not Alone?
All these things are also true of men and angels so you are claiming a likeness between them and Allah and this makes you an infidel according to the Koran.
madmanna, if you are alone and your cat is alone does that mean you are like your cat? common lets be serious here and stop joking because all these involves burning in the hell fire.
If you are the only human being to be seen at the park and your dog is the only dog to be seen at he park, does that mean you are like your dog? or the only makes you a dog?
But the Bible clearly state God is One, Only and Alone, it is there in the Bible clearly written in so many chapters and it means God is not counted as you count Him as 3 in 1. 3 beings 1 being is nowhere in the Bible and it is wrong and not correct.
God exists so He is a being but not a human being or angelic being or satanic being but a Divine Being. Because Bible said He is One, Only and Alone we cannot count him like human beings who obviously are not one but many creations. We cannot say the Divine being is a collections of beings just like humans because He is One according to the Bible and Only and Alone so God cannot be a collection.
Thanks.
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@ intellect
who said : “madmanna, if you are alone and your cat is alone does that mean you are like your cat? common lets be serious here and stop joking because all these involves burning in the hell fire.
If you are the only human being to be seen at the park and your dog is the only dog to be seen at he park, does that mean you are like your dog? or the only makes you a dog?”
I reply,
A dog is not a personal being with a rational mind. So no I am not like him. If the dog is an angel in disguise I may be like him and he may be like God. If angels are personal beings, which is a big if. Unless I know that for sure I will stay on the safe side and not assume any likeness between me and the dog.
Is Allah a singular rational personal being or not according to Islam?
If he is then the Koran is telling us lies because it says there is no likeness to him.
[42.11] The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing is a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
We are all as humans singular personal rational beings and our existence in this respect is analagous to the existence of God.
If Allah is not rational or personal or singular then the Koran is telling the truth.
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Intellect wrote…
“Ijaz had cleverly mentioned to you that, that what isis think and therefore you can join them. I am just repeating to you a clever advise by Ijaz so that you can join isis to continue executing God right to execute judgement to anyone at any time and does not need any ones approval and so you will be killing people and babies.”
My response: No he didn’t, he foolishly attempted to say that my beliefs where the same as ISIS beliefs, but in doing so he has either done one of the following.
1. He does not believe that God has the lawful right to execute judgment on anyone at any time. In which case he does not believe the same as ISIS.
or
2. He does believe that God has the lawful right to execute judgment on anyone at any time. In which case its just another place that Ijaz believes the same as ISIS.
Now Intellect if ISIS believes that their god is sovereign and can execute his judgement on Muslims I have no problem with that. I am all for ISIS being the instruments of allah’s justice on Muslims. But let us examine where Ijaz also believes in what ISIS believes and where I disagree with ISIS.
1. ISIS believes in a monad god. They say لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh, muḥammadur rasūlu-llāh
a. Ijaz believes in a monad god and he says لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh, muḥammadur rasūlu-llāh
b. I don’t believe in a monad god and I do not say لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh, muḥammadur rasūlu-llāh
2. ISIS believes in 5 regular ritual prayers
a. Ijaz believes in 5 regular ritual prayers
b. I do not believe in 5 regular ritualistic prayers.
3. ISIS believes in the Muslim binge, purge, binge fast for the month of Ramadan
a. Ijaz believes the same
b. I do not believe the same.
4. ISIS believes that pork and alcohol is Haram.
a. Ijaz believes that pork and alcohol is Haram.
b. I do not believe that alcohol is forbidden, and I believe like the Jews believe that the Messiah will return the pig to Israel and since Jesus Christ is the Messiah he made all foods clean. So pork is no longer forbidden.
5. ISIS believes that someone named Isa is the Messiah and he was not crucified and did not die
a. Ijaz believes that some named Isa is the Messiah
b. I believe that Jesus (Yeshua) is the Messiah and have no idea who this Isa person is or when and if he existed.
6. ISIS believes that Mohamed is a prophet and the last prophet.
a. Ijaz believes the same.
b. I definitly do not believe the same.
7. ISIS believes that its ok to have sex with slave woman
a. Ijaz believes its ok to have sex with slave woman
b. I don’t believe that it is ok to have sex with slave woman.
8. ISIS believes in the return of the Caliph and the Caliphate will be a utopia on earth.
a. Ijaz believes the same
b. I don’t believe the same.
9. ISIS believes in the establishment of Sharia law.
a. Ijaz believes in the establishment of Sharia law.
b. I don’t believe such nonsense.
10. ISIS believes that theives should have their hands chopped off.
a. Ijaz believes that theives should have their hands chopped off.
b. I don’t believe that.
11. ISIS believes that those who blaspheme against Mohamed should be killed.
a. Ijaz believes that same.
b. I don’t believe the same.
12. ISIS believes that adulterers should be killed.
a. Ijaz believes that adulterers should be killed.
b. I don’t believe they should be killed.
13. ISIS believes that Homosexuals should be killed
a. Ijaz believes that Homosexuals should be killed
b. I don’t believe homosexuals should be killed.
14. ISIS believes that Christians and Jews should pay the Jizya tax.
a. Ijaz believes the same.
b. I don’t believe the same.
15. ISIS believes that a man can have more then one wife.
a. Ijaz believes the same
b. I do not believe the same.
So as you can see Ijaz and even you yourself agree with ISIS. So if you and Ijaz believe that your god is sovereign and has the lawful right to execute judgment on anyone at any time then I would as you why haven’t you made your hidra since you agree with ISIS on so many things. Now if you and Ijaz do not believe that your god is sovereign and has the has the lawful right to execute judgment on anyone at any time, then I would as you why do you worship such a God.
See how foolish Ijaz comment to me was lol. He’s not really that clever lol. Maybe that’s why Paul Williams considered him the best Islamic apologist of our time. So good that he convinced Paul Williams that Islam was not for him.
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ah General Troll – doing what he does best: trolling…
Btw I need you help:https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/08/15/christians-i-need-your-hrelp/
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Ijaz wrote…
@Paul, does anyone think a God of love actually gave the command to “kill everything that breaths”, Deuteronomy 20:16? Nothing in the Qur’an compares to such a command. Somehow we’re worse though and our God is bloodthirsty…..consistency? Robert Mills working for tech support in Michigan (hey Google crawler, index this comment), would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so?
My response: Yes those that believe God and his word absolutely believe that God ordered the Israelite to kill everything that breathes in the towns they where being given as an inheritance. Ijaz Ahmed living in Trinidad\Tepango(hey Google Crawler, index this comment) Ijaz Ahmed is not a Muslim he would not submit to allah if allah ordered him to kill everything living thing that breaths.
One more point this is kind of funny. Muslims claim for the Quran is to produce a surah or Aya like it. Ijaz just proved that the bible is the word of God “Nothing in the Qur’an compares to such a” verse in the bible lol.
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@Robert Wells (Tech Support Worker in Michigan), I noticed you didn’t answer the question. Would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so? It’s a simple question. You wrote two verbose replies that failed to address such a simple and basic question.
Would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so?
Would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so?
Would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so?
Just one question. It only needs one answer.
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Ijaz Ahmad asked someone named Robert Wells in Michigan
Would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so?
Would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so?
Would you massacre everything that breathes if you believe God commanded you to do so?
My Response:
Absolutely
Absolutely
Absolutely.
See I’m not like you Ijaz. Your just like the jews in your quran that say “We hear and disobey”
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Ijaz Ahmed who lives in Trinidad Tepango since I have answered you 4 times already, lets see if you can answer my question.
Will you kill jews when the rocks and trees call out to you “There is a jew hiding behind me come and kill him”?
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lol you demand Ijaz answer your questions but you of all people run away from answering my questions!
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@Robert Wells, Tech Support Worker in Michigan,
The difference is, in the Qur’an, God says, “Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.” We have limits, which God commands us not to go beyond, that includes a scorched earth policy which entails killing everything that breaths. So, unfortunately for you, I hear and I obey, and in doing so, I spread God’s mercy. When you hear and you obey, you cause bloodshed in the name of YHWH.
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Paul what…
I answered his question 4 times now and you say I ran away from answering his question lol. Amazing
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Ijaz so when the rocks and trees tell you to kill jews hiding behind them are you going to obey or disobey the rocks and the trees?
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G. Troll if you heard a voice and believed it came from Jesus, and you thought he told you to kill your dad would you obey? Would you get a hammer like your friend Christian apologist David Wood and try to bludgeon your father to death?
Just asking…
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General troll. You are mistaken. I just want Christians to help me understand 1 Samuel 15.
Can you do that? Are you willing to? Dont be afraid.
According to the story God orders Israel to slaughter men, women, children, infants and animals, for a crime committed by their Amalekite ancestors three centuries previously. My problem is this – and perhaps some kind Christian can clear it up for me:
God is Love. He loves everyone, especially sinners. Furthermore, as God says through the prophet Ezekiel (chapter 18):
Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is lawful and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. The person who sins shall die. A child shall not suffer for the iniquity of a parent, nor a parent suffer for the iniquity of a child; the righteousness of the righteous shall be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be his own.
So my question is this: How is it just for God to slaughter these people? What crime had they committed?
Thank you in advance for clearing up this mystery for me 🙂
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Ijaz Ahmed from Trinidad Tepongo come out come out where ever you are. Can you answer my question please.
When the rocks and trees tell you to kill jews hiding behind them will you kill them?
BTW I find your jihad attempt on me funny since I only work for Islamophobic companies and organizations. I will be sure to forward this to my boss he will get a kick out of it lol
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Paul Williams what a silly question coming from a man who actually listens to rocks and trees waiting for the order to slaughter jews.
To answer your question the answer is NO. No since the voice I heard is not coming from the thick black smoke on the mountain and it is not a command from a recognized prophet.
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Robert Wells aka Troll.
But why not? According to you, God has told people in the past to run through with the sword babies and children. Today, this same Jesus who commanded the slaughter in 1 Samuel 15, speaks directly to Christians by his Spirit (see Acts and Paul’s letters for tons of examples).
Why do you cherry pick God’s commands.
Please explain…
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@Robert Wells, I find it disturbing that you find it funny to make threats to human life. It is extremely disturbing that you are expressing such a willingness to commit murder and that as you have stated, you work for anti-Muslim organizations. That would most certainly be evidential of a hate crime.
http://callingchristians.com/2015/08/16/financier-of-sam-shamoun-threatens-a-terrorist-attack/
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madmanna
You said;
who said : “madmanna, if you are alone and your cat is alone does that mean you are like your cat? common lets be serious here and stop joking because all these involves burning in the hell fire.
If you are the only human being to be seen at the park and your dog is the only dog to be seen at he park, does that mean you are like your dog? or the only makes you a dog?”
I reply,
A dog is not a personal being with a rational mind. So no I am not like him. If the dog is an angel in disguise I may be like him and he may be like God. If angels are personal beings, which is a big if. Unless I know that for sure I will stay on the safe side and not assume any likeness between me and the dog.
Is Allah a singular rational personal being or not according to Islam?
If he is then the Koran is telling us lies because it says there is no likeness to him.
[42.11] The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing is a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
We are all as humans singular personal rational beings and our existence in this respect is analagous to the existence of God.
If Allah is not rational or personal or singular then the Koran is telling the truth.
I say;
A dog is not personal yes so as
A God is not human
The Bible said God is not a man and God is not a woman either
Why?
Man and woman are created beings
God is not a created being.
If your dog is not personal and he is alone and you are alone or he is only dog in your house and you are the only personal being in your house it(dog) can not be you because you are personal and it(dog) is not.
In the same way, God is not a human but divine being. So if God is alone, one and only and you are alone, one but cannot be only because you are not the only human being madmanna because where ever you are alone there are many human beings like you and they are many created human beings who were created by God so you can never be alone human being, you can never be one human being where ever you are they are others and you can never be the only human being. ok? If you think you are the only human being then you a big fool and if you think you are alone as a human being, then you are stupid, if you think you are one human being then you are a liar. I am not insulting you please but it is a fact do not think that way it is wrong.
Now lets consider God
First consider what the Bible said and I copied.
“You alone, Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
“there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there “will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“You alone is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
I unlike you I believe God is One, Only and Alone because I believe in what the Bible said clearly above which is God is One, Only and Alone. The Bible said so not me.
Why did the Bible said that?
Because God is a jealous God and He does not want another God apart from Him(One, Only and Alone) God. So He clearly stated in numerous verses in the Bible that He is One, Only and Alone and He is not created. And Jesus also referred to His(Jesus’s) God as One, Only and Alone
Mark
Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is One said Jesus not referring to himself but the Only, One and Alone God
No one knows the date except only the Father alone said Jesus.
God is not created and is only one divine being according to the Bible so God cannot be a group of 3 beings in 1 being or people or persons or counted as multiple divine beings and it is idol worshiping and or polytheism which God said deserves hell fire.
You said;
Is Allah a singular rational personal being or not according to Islam?
If he is then the Koran is telling us lies because it says there is no likeness to him.
[42.11] The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing is a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
We are all as humans singular personal rational beings and our existence in this respect is analagous to the existence of God.
If Allah is not rational or personal or singular then the Koran is telling the truth.
I say;
If one angel (angelic being) is singular rational personal being and one man(human being) is a singular rational human being, does that means an angel is a human?
Have you ever heard any sensible person saying because of this an angel is a human? This will not make an angel a human because both can be counted as One. Mind you we do not have only one angel and only one human but there are many angels created by God. Counting each or one of them does not make them the same. There is no one man(human) but many and can be counted. But God said He is One Only and Alone and uncreated and so cannot be counted like human or angels. Counting God as 3 in what ever sense is idol worshiping and polytheism and punishable in the hell fire. Other personal beings are created man and can be counted but God or divine being is One, Only and Alone and not created and so not 2 or more than 1 and therefore cannot be counted.
An angel will still be an angel but not man and a man will still be a man but not angel. Angel was created with light and human was created with mud, so their singular rational personalities does not make them like each other.
Dog and cat are both not personal but they are not like each other. Is crocodile like an eagle. Will you teach you child that snake is like cow? They are completely different and not like each other.
Singularity, personality and rationality does not make beings the same.
You said;
We are all as humans singular personal rational beings and our existence in this respect is analagous to the existence of God.
I say;
One analogy does not make an entity to be completely like another entity. That is philosophical and intellectual bankruptcy.
A BMW or Mercedes car can travel from times square in New York to United Nations building and a human being can also travel from times square in New York to United Nations building. Does that make a car like human being.
When God said there is nothing like Him, obviously if you are not an intellectual bankrupt person He does not mean something analogous to His Characteristics. He said there is nothing like Him but not, no characteristics like His characteristics.
You are talking about God attributes like His
Persona
Mercy
love
greatness etc.
Human beings possess the above and God possess the above too, but God is saying nothing is like Him but not no characteristics like His Characteristics but NOTHING LIKE HIM not characteristics or attributes.
madmanna, think well and stop your Trinitarian God because I bet you will be in hell fire if you do not convert to at least Christian Unitarian or Jehovah witness it is better for you if you do not want to become a Muslims which will be great. You may see it as a stubbornness on earth but when you die without converting to a reasonable religion then you will say “oh, had I know I would have listened to my brother intellect”
Thanks
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Ijaz Ahmed proving the bible true, a dog will always return to its vomit. Well at least your consistent.
So you never did answer my question. When the rocks and trees call out to you to kill the jews hiding behind them will you go and kill them?
Why won’t you answer the question? Are you ashamed of your relgion. See I’m not ashamed of anything in Christ. See how boldly I answered your questions, even though I knew you were setting it up so anyone who googles my real name will find this blog entry. Thats the difference between someone like myself who has true faith in his heart, and someone like yourself who as one Christian apologist said about you “hatred to the bone”.
BTW I still have the screen shots and the text saved of your promise to apologize to publicly and admitting that you LIED in those sladereous articles you wrote against myself, Sam, and Anthony Rogers. LOL
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“Thats the difference between someone like myself who has true faith in his heart”
lol this from someone who calls himself a “Troll”!
Robert Wells = Radical Moderate.
https://www.facebook.com/bob.nonya.14
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@Robert Wells, Tech Support Worker from Michigan, I believe we have answered your question, scroll up and you will indeed see a response from me. It is interesting to note, that this Christian apologist had to change the name of his ministry and eventually close it down after his debates with me. Not to mention he had to apologize several times for unChristian-like behaviour. His words and testimony matter little, given the backlash he faced by a video Br. Yahya made, which led to a public apology, and eventual withdrawal of the video itself. Not to mention failure to upload our first debate and corrupting the audio of the second one. Quite the source you have there! Quite the “apologist” too.
It is indeed true we had a conversation in which I acknowledged I misinterpreted one of your statements during a heated conversation between ourselves. It is not true, that I admitted to lying or slandering you. See, as a Muslim, I am willing to acknowledge my mistakes and to correct myself without issue. I have no hatred in my heart for people of your ilk, it is not about never being wrong, it is about living in truth and being conscious of God. Something you are unable to do.
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Ijaz no you didn’t answer the question but thats ok I didn’t expect you too.
So you have no hatred in your heart, yet you went out of your way to slander me on several occasions, and even this latest little episode. BTW I find it funny that you actually think you can hurt me lol. But the only person who hurts you other then your own daddy is you.
Paul Yes it is I Radical Moderate lol. I thought you knew that lol.
So Paul since Islam’s greatest apologist who convinced you that Islam was not for you wont answer my question. What say you. Will you go out and kill jews when the rocks and trees tell you to do so?
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@Robert Wells, Tech Worker from Michigan,
There is no hate in speaking the truth. All I did was take screenshots of your threats, insults, and shared them publicly. I do not aim to hurt you, my aim is to help you. Why would you assume we want to hurt you? We care for your mental well being. Foregoing your obsession over my age and my father, it’s okay that you try to attack me with your words. I know that this is your way of seeking attention. Your way of asking for help. It will all be okay Robert. We will get help for you.
Hope you don’t absolutely kill anyone today.
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Ijaz you really do love your vomit. BTW are you still a member of MDI? Just wondering if you get a cut from Andalusi and does he share his muta wives with you?
Well I will leave you to your vomit its what you love best
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@Robert Wells, Tech Support Worker from Michigan.
What is your obsession with sex? Almost every time you try to speak to me, you ask me about someone’s sex life. I am not interested in speaking about sex with you Robert. I have asked you many times to behave decently around me, for the last time, I don’t care about anyone’s sex life and I have no information about it.
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Robert & Ijaz that’s enough of the ad hominems for now..
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Don’t worry Paul I’m done embarrassing “Islams greatest apologist” truth be told I usually ignore him when he begs for attention from me. So back to ignore he goes.
So Paul you never did answer my question regarding the talking trees and rocks. Will you kill Jews when the rocks and trees tell you too?
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Look Robert I’m not interested in answering your questions as you have a dreadful track record in answering mine. Capish?
And technically you are banned from this blog as radical moderate.
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Really what question of your have I not answered?
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