Part of the problem must be one of not knowing what is really going on in that region. We in the West have been lied to by media and government time and again about what is happening in the Middle East (think 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan and others). Maybe ISIS are as bad as the Western media say they are. But perhaps the full truth will only come out in many years hence when we might find (it is possible on past performance) that certain Western agencies have planted false scare stories in the media, that we were not told significant facts about the funding of ISIS (by the West) and the group’s manipulation by the West for its own purposes (toppling Asad) and so on.
Muslims are often sceptical about a usually pro-American zionist media. And rightly so. Maybe the best position is to be agnostic about what is happening until we get all the facts. But that may take years.
Give these factors I’m not surprised Muslims are not signing up to Western armies to fight ISIS. The West must stop invading Muslim countries, stop supporting dictatorships, stop funding extremist groups (like ISIS), and get the hell out of there. Their presence is extremely destabilizing and leads to bloodshed.
Categories: Islam
Blogging Theology 
‘Maybe ISIS are as bad as the Western media say they are’
Maybe? It is blatantly clear that ISIS are as bad or worse than what they’re made out to be in the media.
Another part of the problem is Wahabism/Salafism.
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you believe everything you read in the papers?
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No. You don’t need to read papers when their propaganda magazine Dabiq is enough.
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which of course is authentic..because it claims to be by IS right?
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Of course not. Its got to be a zionist conspiracy, right?
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I didn’t say that. Just questioning your seemingly naive trust in what you read online.
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I have actually debated ISIS supporters. One of them is now rotting in jail, Alhamdolillah. I have no doubt that such folks exist and they are capable of exactly what the media reports.
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As i said above:
We in the West have been lied to by media and government time and again about what is happening in the Middle East (think 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan and others). Maybe ISIS are as bad as the Western media say they are. But perhaps the full truth will only come out in many years hence when we might find (it is possible on past performance) that certain Western agencies have planted false scare stories in the media, that we were not told significant facts about the funding of ISIS (by the West) and the group’s manipulation by the West for its own purposes (toppling Asad) and so on.
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Paul Williams wrote…
Part of the problem must be one of not knowing what is really going on in that region. We in the West have been lied to by media and government time and again about what is happening in the Middle East (think 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan and others). Maybe ISIS are as bad as the Western media say they are.
My response: And so it begins. We know what is going on because ISIS tells us what is going on. They are very proud of the work they are doing for allah and his cause, and they want everyone to know it. That is part of the appeal to the faithful. They are living the dream, while you all are still dreaming. We don’t need to go to “western media” we can go to ISIS media, to ISIS twitter accounts, etc… Its not some big secret, just like the last caliphate of the last century the genocide and ethnic cleansing that the new Caliphate in this new century is committing, is happening in real time. Paul if you are still on FB check out Mosul Eye.
Paul Williams wrote…
” …that we were not told significant facts about the funding of ISIS (by the West) and the group’s manipulation by the West for its own purposes (toppling Asad) and so on.”
My response: Do you have any proof, anything to back up this nonsensical claim that the west is funding ISIS? Or is this just wishful fantasy? And no we did not want ISIS to topple Asad, we wanted some fantasy moderate Muslim army. Now that was wishful fantasy.
Paul Williams wrote…
Maybe the best position is to be agnostic about what is happening until we get all the facts. But that may take years.
My Response: NO you don’t have years to be agnostic about ISIS. Time is running out.
Paul wrote…
Give these factors I’m not surprised Muslims are not signing up to Western armies to fight ISIS.
My Response: I agree with you its not surprising that western Muslims are not signing up to fight ISIS. Yah not surprising at all. ISIS after all is “Islamic very Islamic”.
Paul Wrote…
The West must stop invading Muslim countries, stop supporting dictatorships, stop funding extremist groups (like ISIS), and get the hell out of there. Their presence is extremely destabilizing and leads to bloodshed.
My response: We are in 100 percent total agreement on this Paul. 100 percent. The west should not be bombing ISIS and should remove all support from Turkey, KSA, Jordan, Egypt, etc…
See Islamophobes and Muslims can agree on some things.
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Some further thoughts:
I think the problem in Syria is as follows: the international community should have declared a no fly zone over Syria and immediately assisted FSA – a moderate group – in toppling Bashar. Instead, pretty much nothing was done. Only peanuts were thrown to those fighting Bashar now and then. In sharp contrast, Iran and the ghastly Russians openly helped Bashar to kill over 100000 civilians. As a result of this sustain disbalance and the lack of support towards ordinary sunni syrian, many turned radical and this paved the way for the enterance of more and more wahabi groups in this conflict.
ISIS emerged as a result of the persecution of sunnis in Iraq and it eventually established itself in Syria as well.
Lack of sustained intervention has harmed sunnis, has allows wahabis to hijack a righteous fight against the evil bashar alawite regime.
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Paul Williams wrote…
” …that we were not told significant facts about the funding of ISIS (by the West) and the group’s manipulation by the West for its own purposes (toppling Asad) and so on.”
Robert response: Do you have any proof, anything to back up this nonsensical claim that the west is funding ISIS? Or is this just wishful fantasy? And no we did not want ISIS to topple Asad, we wanted some fantasy moderate Muslim army. Now that was wishful fantasy.
Me: Here is some interesting evidence, posted on this blog before: https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/08/09/rise-of-islamic-state-was-a-willful-decision-former-dia-chief-michael-flynn/
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Wow Paul congratulations you uncovered a plot by the US to support rebels in Syria. Something every US citizen who pays attention to these things knew all along. Thats why Islamophobes have always been against giving any aid, weapons, and training to any group in the middle east.
Again I ask you do you have any evidence to support your nonsensical claim that the west funded ISIS, not other rebel groups in Syria?
BTW I guess I should have been more specific. By funding, I mean giving direct funds to ISIS not funding a mythical “Moderate Muslim” rebel group that later joined ISIS, or had its weapons captured by ISIS. Or the massive amount of weapons given to Shia Iraq, only to have those weapons captured by the cowardly Shias as they ran away.
Now if you want to say the west, that being the US specifically, indirectly and foolishly supported and strengthened ISIS by giving funds, weapons, and training to groups they “thought” where “Moderate Muslims” even though they should have known better. Or even that the US knew but did not care that the funds, weapons and training was being funneled to ISIS do to the corrupt “moderate Muslim” groups the US was supporting then again I will agree with you.
If you want to say that weapons that where given to the Libya rebellion wound up on Syria I will agree with you.
If you want to say that the US administration and the republican members of Congress, like John McCain, Mitch McConnell, and others willfully ignored intelligence reports that giving funds, weapons and training to “moderate Muslim” rebel groups would mean indirectly giving funds, weapons and training to Al Nusra and ISIS groups, then I will agree with you.
There is a great 5 part series on ISIS done by Vice News, (the guys at Vice news are crazy), and there is a great article on the History and Ideology of ISIS in The Atlantic Monthly. I highly recommend both.
The truth is that ISIS was and should have been a dead end except for a few things. First there was al-Maliki and the Iraqi Shia’s who went against the US and all the hard work and money the US did in creating the Sunni Awakening to drive what was ISIL at the time, out of Iraq and into Syria. It was do to this that Al Bagadadi took a gamble and was able to seize Mosul along with the treasure trove of US heavy and light weapons and ammunition, as well as the rob the bank of Mosul which functioned at the time as the central bank of the region. ISIS could not have done what they did in Mosul with out the direct support of the Sunni tribes.
There is one scene where the reporter from Vice news is speaking to a ISIS soldier in which the soldier says words to the effect of “before Mosul we had no ammunition and very little weapons, after Mosul we have so many weapons and so much now”
The truth is Paul, that the US administration and government leaders are stupid when it comes to the region of the middle east. The US needs strong Islamophobes in leadership to keep the US from making the same mistakes over and over again.
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“The US needs strong Islamophobes in leadership”
yep that’s gonna help with peace domestic and foreign. Just like saying you need anti-Semites running the White House.
What a nut job!
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Paul if strong Islamophobes where in power the US would not be funding, training, or giving weapons to anyone in that region. The policy would be the tried and true method of the Cold War, Isolation, and containment.
I came back to add a few more things. If you want to say that ISIL was the indirect result of the folly that was the Iraq invasion then again I agree with you. If you want to say that ISIS was the DIRECT result of Paul Bremmers general order No. 1 and No 2. then I would agree with you.
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Paul since u are unsure if ISIS is as bad as ISIS says it is. Might I suggest u travel to the IS and blog the real truth about ISIS 😛
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Actually I gave a better idea: why don’t you go to IS land and tell them how wicked they are and how as an anti muslin campaigner you have come to guide them to the truth.
That would be fun.
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Robert Wells proud to be a racist. Anders Breivik your poster boy?
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Burglarizing please explain why u think IM a racist? and the guy u mentioned wax not an islamPhobe
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Paul don’t be silly. I do not doubt Isis is as bad as Isis says it is. Second IM not a Muslim so I can not convince muslims to follow Pauline Islam. Third I believe Isis is following is doing there best to sincerely follow 7the century Islam eight modern weapons. So I can not convince then of anything.
Paul IM sure Isis would welcome u to tell ths world just how bad Isis really is.
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What do you think of Anders Breivik?
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Eight= modern
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Not a fan supporter or follower. He was neither a isamaphobe not a protestant Christian.
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i am surprised. Your world views are so similar.
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Really how so? Only an extreme anti extremist would make such a remark. you are ignorant of Isamaphobes, that’s why ur an isamaphobe a phone.
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its very obvious – he is an extreme xenophobic nutter with multiple delusions about life, the universe and everything. The only difference is that he’s in jail – and you are not.
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Paul Williams wrote…
“he is an extreme xenophobic nutter with multiple delusions about life, the universe and everything. The only difference is that he’s in jail – and you are not.”
My Response: Again I ask how is his world view like mine? I’m not xenophobic, not a nutter, and I have no delusions about life or the universe.
One of the things I love about the USA is how the whole world comes to my back yard. I can have Huevos rancheros for breakfast, Korean BBQ, or Lebanese Grape Leaves stuffed with Lamb, rice, and mint for lunch, for dinner maybe some Indian Fusion Chicken Makhani, or a taste of the Islands with some Jerk Chicken. But tonight I feel like a taste from home, Italian Beef Sandwich with sweet peppers, and dipped of course.
Yup not xenophobic at all. I’m not a nutter, don’t believe in wild conspiracy theories, no tinfoil on my head, and I have no delusions about life or the universe.
So again I ask in what way is his world view like mine?
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