My dear Archbishop tell them for me. Some Christians on this blog take the habit of disrespecting Allah by not capitalizing the first letter. Archbishop, tell them they are fools.
Archbishop, your are a Christian but you are not fool at all. You are intelligent. You know Jews, Christians, Muslims and others use Allah as God. Allah is God and must be respected no matter your religion except your a fool.
So, there is no YHWH in the New Testament. “I am” is not Yahweh and someone called himself “I am” in the New Testament and he is not God.
Where does it says “I am who I am” is God’s true name? I am who I am is just a phrase and that is what is it. Christians will force one to believe what they believe but just to disprove others.
Father is one of God’s name in the NT and there is no problem about that.
When Jesus was in difficulty, how did he call his God? Jesus never called God YHWH but called God Allah, Elah, Allaha in his native Aramaic language.
So, Allah is the true name of God in Jesus’s language and it could be YHWH in other language.
“I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD [YHWH] I did not make myself fully known to them” (Exodus 6:3).
YHWH is God’s true name according to the Bible. I Am What I Am is roughly what it translates to. It is a reference to His eternal and self-existent nature. I think that makes more sense than a generic word for God such as Allah which simply means “the god”. I have no problem with people calling God Allah as I mentioned above, just that it is not His true universal name. Even so, I personally don’t think it matters since God is called by many names and titles in Bible and has no issue with it as He told Moses in the verse I quoted.
i agree that it doesn’t matter what name you use whether YHWH or Allah as they essentially mean the same thing. YHWH meaning “I am who i am” whereas Allah meaning “The One God”
To answer Paul i think the answer would be “The Father”
“Allah” is not the name of God. Allah does not have a name but is only called by people using different names. In the Qur’an God used the name Allah most often. That is the reason why Muslims prefer to use Allah.
Allah means God. There is no other way to simply say God than Allah in Arabic.
i agree its wrong the Christians in Malaysia should be free to use the name Allah if they if that is what they want to do especially as Arabic Christians use the word Allah all the time.
no not at all i have met and spoken with many Muslims who would abhor should behaviour and their understanding of the Qur’an and my own (admitedly very limited) experience reading it would respect religious freedom, however the truth is that sadly certain countries including Malaysia are not practising that.
Think of the problems in Egypt where Muslims cannot leave Islam without facing the death penalty or in Pakistan where a recent law states that all children despite whether they are Muslim or not are required to be taught the Qur’an in schools (despite what the constitution teaches). The list goes on and on.
The controversy over the use of Allah in the bahasa Malaysia bible translation NOT on the prohibition on the the use of Allah itself but on their inaccurate use of the name most notably is the shifting of theological name of Allah from the one and only true God Al-Ilah hence Allah into a mere generic noun meaning god or goddess this creates an impression that God is no longer a holy, divine and incomparable Creator of the Universe , and compromise the Tauheed.
You are welcome brother, glad to have the opportunity to clarify the real issue, some missionaries love to use this issue as a case of islamic intolerance, sad.
Doesn’t that demonstrate an ignorance on the part of the Malaysian government since Christians whether Trinitarians or not would agree that there is “only one and true God”?
Wouldn’t you then agree that they are wrong for doing this?
So because it is sometimes used as a generic noun by another religion in their own religious text, you as a Muslims think it is ok to ban Christians using the term?
How tolerant of you. You do know that Muslims don’t own grammatical laws, don’t you? What would you expect your fellow countrymen to use, given the Arabic influence on the language?
Paul, what’s clarified? You have a ‘moderate’ Indonesian commentator calling for bans on Christians using the word Allah. Sad.
“….. AllahKu, AllahKu, mengapa Engkau meninggalkan Aku?” (Matius 27:46).
Which you may have looked up which means, “my God my God why have you forsaken me”. Eric wants to ban Christians using ‘Allah’ this way, because Allah is used generically.
In other words, next time you use the English word God, you shouldn’t be doing it because it becomes a generic noun and in Eric’s mind we can’t do that. Completely moronic and bigoted.it makes me angry that Muslims would be so cruel and wicked toward their fellow countrymen.
Muslims are required to know arabic.I can tell you Indonesian muslims are in far better position understanding Arabic and Islamic terminology than indonesian christians, I read classical arabic and speak Fusha arabic as well as some saudi dialect.and btw I dont like being called“moderate” as if the majority of true muslims are fundamentalist who are killing people for Islam I dont know why you you call me such,I am striving to adhere to every tenets of Islamic law agreed by the majority of classical ulemas. if that makes me a fundamentalist lets be it.
Regarding flawed and deceptive translation of the bible by LAI
“….. AllahKu, AllahKu, mengapa Engkau meninggalkan Aku?” (Matius 27:46)
Please find me in any english translation of the bible for such translation hypothetically exists, based on the way the bahasa is constructed:
”…my Allah my Allah why you have forsaken me?
Find me which english translation has translated the passage this way??
ok , also I add another challenge for you and this is more important since Allah is the arabic term and the arabs know the proper usage of this term.
Find me parallel arabic translation of the bible who use the term “Allah” in that passage as andput a possessive (my) before the the word ALLAH therefore treat it as a mere generic pronoun ??
You will never be able to do that instead what we have isإِلَهِيإِلَهِيلِمَاذَاتَرَكْتَنِي ,
Why? This is a wrong grammatical construct even in Indonesian language. They should use “Tuhan” instead of “ALLAH”. You may not notice this weird usage because you are not native Indonesian and I ams sure you are not specialist in this language.
Muslims have no problem with arabic bible, and I even read it sometime. Arab christians know the proper usage of the word ALLAH thats why you can not find a construct like the Indonesian translation.
The real issue is Indonesian and Malaysian bible translation use improper and incorrect use of the term Allah, thus disrespect the true usage of the arabic term and show little sensitivity to their muslims feeling. This is the view of the majority of Indonesian muslims regarding their fellow christians use of the word Allah. AlthoughI am aware the vast majority of Indonesian christians are just being ignorant I cant blame them. But I have respect for the malaysian initiative for the ban and therefore re-instate the proper use of the term God in the bahasa Malaysia ie Tuhan.
Eric, you are talking nonsense. Indonesian Christians use the term generically all the time. Because you don’t like it you want to ban their translation. Here is just one example from a Indonesian Christian worship song
“Allah kuasa melakukan segala perkara
Allahku maha kuasa
Dia ciptakan seisi dunia, atur s’gala masa
Allahku maha kuasa”
Just because they use the term differently to Muslims does not give you the right to discriminate against them
The main point is that a translation is done to help the target audience. Sure, maybe Indonesian Muslims might not use Allah generically, but Christians do and therefore they should be able to create and use a translation that is appropriate for their culture and theology. It is their translation. It does not belong to Muslims and the issue of the possessive ‘my’ is a theological one. You are simply upset because Christians have a different theology to you.
I’d like to see you be consistent and ask Paul not to use a generic equivalence either. Will you do that? The OP of his post is based on Allah being used generically anyway.
Final point: as demonstrated Indonesian Christians say “allahku” in their worship and daily speak, not just their translations. Would you like to see a ban on all use like this?
You dont get it do you mas Paulus, this is not about my like or dislike… consider this Allah is an arabic term, Now I asked to provide evidence where arab christian has the ter Tuhan-ku translated in arabic as “Allah-ku”Or اللهي , Alif, Lam, Lam, Haa plus dhomir muttasil (possessive) Yaa transliterated Allahii ?
Of course you will never find it, because it does not exist.!
Christian arabs translate “Tuhan/ku as إِلَهِي transliterated “Ilahii” not “Allahii” ( or Allah-ku the way christian translation in Bahasa ) this particular flaw and improper use is in linguistic context although It has impact on theology as well as disrespectful of both Muslim and arabic speaking christians who know the appropriate usage of the God’s term Allah.
//I’d like to see you be consistent and ask Paul not to use a generic equivalence either. Will you do that? The OP of his post is based on Allah being used generically anyway.//
You failed to understand the OP of this post. Is that the case show me in Arabic bible where Allah is used generically?
Generic term for god in Arabic is “Ilah” اله not “Allah” الله for arabic speaking muslim or christian.
//Final point: as demonstrated Indonesian Christians say “allahku” in their worship and daily speak, not just their translations. Would you like to see a ban on all use like this?/:
This is not true, so started to think you are dishonest , i have never heard christian use Allah-ku in daily conversation, it is a weird usage.
Is there a law in Malaysia and Pakistan for death penalty of Muslim apostates? It does not count when some Muslim group take the law in their own hands.
You know politicians who want votes can always tilt their laws to favour some groups and that is very bad. In some western countries children have to be taught gay lessons at schools and it is compulsory. Some religious group are protesting it.
It will really increase gay and lesbian population because a child exposure to this act is very bad to society. That is what some politicians do.
while it is true that Pakistan has no law for apostasy (despite an attempt in 2007 to change that) it is nevertheless said to be very difficult for people to openly convert to another religion or become an atheist which can include delcaring their children illegitimate or even in the case of a Christian convert accuse them of blasphemy which can indeed result in the death penalty. Here is just one recent example:
Blogging Theology 
My dear Archbishop tell them for me. Some Christians on this blog take the habit of disrespecting Allah by not capitalizing the first letter. Archbishop, tell them they are fools.
Archbishop, your are a Christian but you are not fool at all. You are intelligent. You know Jews, Christians, Muslims and others use Allah as God. Allah is God and must be respected no matter your religion except your a fool.
Thanks
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Amen!
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Oops
So, there is no YHWH in the New Testament. “I am” is not Yahweh and someone called himself “I am” in the New Testament and he is not God.
Where does it says “I am who I am” is God’s true name? I am who I am is just a phrase and that is what is it. Christians will force one to believe what they believe but just to disprove others.
Father is one of God’s name in the NT and there is no problem about that.
When Jesus was in difficulty, how did he call his God? Jesus never called God YHWH but called God Allah, Elah, Allaha in his native Aramaic language.
So, Allah is the true name of God in Jesus’s language and it could be YHWH in other language.
Jesus
Elah, Elah, Lamasabhtani
Thanks
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Allah is the name of God in Arabic just as God is used in English, there’s no problem with that.
However, God’s true name is not Allah.
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In the New Testament what is God’s true name?
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“I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD [YHWH] I did not make myself fully known to them” (Exodus 6:3).
YHWH is God’s true name according to the Bible. I Am What I Am is roughly what it translates to. It is a reference to His eternal and self-existent nature. I think that makes more sense than a generic word for God such as Allah which simply means “the god”. I have no problem with people calling God Allah as I mentioned above, just that it is not His true universal name. Even so, I personally don’t think it matters since God is called by many names and titles in Bible and has no issue with it as He told Moses in the verse I quoted.
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i agree that it doesn’t matter what name you use whether YHWH or Allah as they essentially mean the same thing. YHWH meaning “I am who i am” whereas Allah meaning “The One God”
To answer Paul i think the answer would be “The Father”
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“Allah” is not the name of God. Allah does not have a name but is only called by people using different names. In the Qur’an God used the name Allah most often. That is the reason why Muslims prefer to use Allah.
Allah means God. There is no other way to simply say God than Allah in Arabic.
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Tell that to Malaysia, who’s Muslim religious and govt leaders have banned Christians using Allah.
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i agree its wrong the Christians in Malaysia should be free to use the name Allah if they if that is what they want to do especially as Arabic Christians use the word Allah all the time.
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And Malaysia somehow represents the entire Muslim world? Do you always talk out of your rear end? Think, Lassie, think!
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no not at all i have met and spoken with many Muslims who would abhor should behaviour and their understanding of the Qur’an and my own (admitedly very limited) experience reading it would respect religious freedom, however the truth is that sadly certain countries including Malaysia are not practising that.
Think of the problems in Egypt where Muslims cannot leave Islam without facing the death penalty or in Pakistan where a recent law states that all children despite whether they are Muslim or not are required to be taught the Qur’an in schools (despite what the constitution teaches). The list goes on and on.
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The controversy over the use of Allah in the bahasa Malaysia bible translation NOT on the prohibition on the the use of Allah itself but on their inaccurate use of the name most notably is the shifting of theological name of Allah from the one and only true God Al-Ilah hence Allah into a mere generic noun meaning god or goddess this creates an impression that God is no longer a holy, divine and incomparable Creator of the Universe , and compromise the Tauheed.
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Eric, so you would also want to stop Indonesian Christians using Allah and Tuhan?
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Why not, I can understand the reasoning behind the ban, for example, Indonesian bible translation commitee (LAI) translate Mat 27:46 wrongly:
“….. AllahKu, AllahKu, mengapa Engkau meninggalkan Aku?” (Matius 27:46).
Allahku should be Ilah-ku , as in Arabic bible has translated it as الهي
Also
“…aku akan pergi kepada BapaKu dan Bapamu, kepada AllahKu dan Allahmu.” (jh 20:17).
2. LAI treat nama Allah as generic noun with small “a” not a eg:
” Ia berkata: “Maka sekarang jauhkanlah allah asing yang ada di tengah-tengah kamu dan condongkanlah hatimu kepada TUHAN, Allah Israel.” (Jos 24:23).
Also
” …. atau yang berkata demi nama allah lain, nabi itu harus mati.” (Ulangan 18:20).
LAI deliberately changes Islamic theological meaning for Allah to something a more negative significance for pagan gods. Eg:
“Sebab segala allah bangsa-bangsa adalah berhala, tetapi TUHANlah yg menjadikan langit.” (I Tawarikh 16:26).
Also
“Dahulu ketika kamu tidak mengenal Allah, kamu memperhambakan diri kepada allah-allah yang hakekatnya bukan Allah.” (Galatia 4:8).
So christians should abandon this incorrect and inapproriate use of the Islamic and arabic term Allah in bahasa Indonesia translation of the bible.
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Thank you for that clarification Eric.
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You are welcome brother, glad to have the opportunity to clarify the real issue, some missionaries love to use this issue as a case of islamic intolerance, sad.
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Doesn’t that demonstrate an ignorance on the part of the Malaysian government since Christians whether Trinitarians or not would agree that there is “only one and true God”?
Wouldn’t you then agree that they are wrong for doing this?
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So because it is sometimes used as a generic noun by another religion in their own religious text, you as a Muslims think it is ok to ban Christians using the term?
How tolerant of you. You do know that Muslims don’t own grammatical laws, don’t you? What would you expect your fellow countrymen to use, given the Arabic influence on the language?
Paul, what’s clarified? You have a ‘moderate’ Indonesian commentator calling for bans on Christians using the word Allah. Sad.
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Paulus
Eric can read the language and he knows what he is talking about. You don’t. End of.
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And Paul, for the recordEric has cited
“….. AllahKu, AllahKu, mengapa Engkau meninggalkan Aku?” (Matius 27:46).
Which you may have looked up which means, “my God my God why have you forsaken me”. Eric wants to ban Christians using ‘Allah’ this way, because Allah is used generically.
In other words, next time you use the English word God, you shouldn’t be doing it because it becomes a generic noun and in Eric’s mind we can’t do that. Completely moronic and bigoted.it makes me angry that Muslims would be so cruel and wicked toward their fellow countrymen.
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Paul, I speak Indonesian fluently.
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With the name of Allah
Paulus,
Muslims are required to know arabic. I can tell you Indonesian muslims are in far better position understanding Arabic and Islamic terminology than indonesian christians, I read classical arabic and speak Fusha arabic as well as some saudi dialect. and btw I dont like being called “moderate” as if the majority of true muslims are fundamentalist who are killing people for Islam I dont know why you you call me such, I am striving to adhere to every tenets of Islamic law agreed by the majority of classical ulemas. if that makes me a fundamentalist lets be it.
Regarding flawed and deceptive translation of the bible by LAI
“….. AllahKu, AllahKu, mengapa Engkau meninggalkan Aku?” (Matius 27:46)
Please find me in any english translation of the bible for such translation hypothetically exists, based on the way the bahasa is constructed:
”…my Allah my Allah why you have forsaken me?
Find me which english translation has translated the passage this way??
ok , also I add another challenge for you and this is more important since Allah is the arabic term and the arabs know the proper usage of this term.
Find me parallel arabic translation of the bible who use the term “Allah” in that passage as and put a possessive (my) before the the word ALLAH therefore treat it as a mere generic pronoun ??
You will never be able to do that instead what we have is إِلَهِي إِلَهِي لِمَاذَا تَرَكْتَنِي ,
Why? This is a wrong grammatical construct even in Indonesian language. They should use “Tuhan” instead of “ALLAH”. You may not notice this weird usage because you are not native Indonesian and I ams sure you are not specialist in this language.
Muslims have no problem with arabic bible, and I even read it sometime. Arab christians know the proper usage of the word ALLAH thats why you can not find a construct like the Indonesian translation.
The real issue is Indonesian and Malaysian bible translation use improper and incorrect use of the term Allah, thus disrespect the true usage of the arabic term and show little sensitivity to their muslims feeling. This is the view of the majority of Indonesian muslims regarding their fellow christians use of the word Allah. Although I am aware the vast majority of Indonesian christians are just being ignorant I cant blame them. But I have respect for the malaysian initiative for the ban and therefore re-instate the proper use of the term God in the bahasa Malaysia ie Tuhan.
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Eric, you are talking nonsense. Indonesian Christians use the term generically all the time. Because you don’t like it you want to ban their translation. Here is just one example from a Indonesian Christian worship song
“Allah kuasa melakukan segala perkara
Allahku maha kuasa
Dia ciptakan seisi dunia, atur s’gala masa
Allahku maha kuasa”
Just because they use the term differently to Muslims does not give you the right to discriminate against them
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The main point is that a translation is done to help the target audience. Sure, maybe Indonesian Muslims might not use Allah generically, but Christians do and therefore they should be able to create and use a translation that is appropriate for their culture and theology. It is their translation. It does not belong to Muslims and the issue of the possessive ‘my’ is a theological one. You are simply upset because Christians have a different theology to you.
I’d like to see you be consistent and ask Paul not to use a generic equivalence either. Will you do that? The OP of his post is based on Allah being used generically anyway.
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Final point: as demonstrated Indonesian Christians say “allahku” in their worship and daily speak, not just their translations. Would you like to see a ban on all use like this?
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With the name of Allah.
You dont get it do you mas Paulus, this is not about my like or dislike… consider this Allah is an arabic term, Now I asked to provide evidence where arab christian has the ter Tuhan-ku translated in arabic as “Allah-ku”Or اللهي , Alif, Lam, Lam, Haa plus dhomir muttasil (possessive) Yaa transliterated Allahii ?
Of course you will never find it, because it does not exist.!
Christian arabs translate “Tuhan/ku as إِلَهِي transliterated “Ilahii” not “Allahii” ( or Allah-ku the way christian translation in Bahasa ) this particular flaw and improper use is in linguistic context although It has impact on theology as well as disrespectful of both Muslim and arabic speaking christians who know the appropriate usage of the God’s term Allah.
LikeLiked by 1 person
//I’d like to see you be consistent and ask Paul not to use a generic equivalence either. Will you do that? The OP of his post is based on Allah being used generically anyway.//
You failed to understand the OP of this post. Is that the case show me in Arabic bible where Allah is used generically?
Generic term for god in Arabic is “Ilah” اله not “Allah” الله for arabic speaking muslim or christian.
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//Final point: as demonstrated Indonesian Christians say “allahku” in their worship and daily speak, not just their translations. Would you like to see a ban on all use like this?/:
This is not true, so started to think you are dishonest , i have never heard christian use Allah-ku in daily conversation, it is a weird usage.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Patrice
Is there a law in Malaysia and Pakistan for death penalty of Muslim apostates? It does not count when some Muslim group take the law in their own hands.
You know politicians who want votes can always tilt their laws to favour some groups and that is very bad. In some western countries children have to be taught gay lessons at schools and it is compulsory. Some religious group are protesting it.
It will really increase gay and lesbian population because a child exposure to this act is very bad to society. That is what some politicians do.
Thanks.
LikeLiked by 1 person
while it is true that Pakistan has no law for apostasy (despite an attempt in 2007 to change that) it is nevertheless said to be very difficult for people to openly convert to another religion or become an atheist which can include delcaring their children illegitimate or even in the case of a Christian convert accuse them of blasphemy which can indeed result in the death penalty. Here is just one recent example:
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/07/12/police-in-pakistan-search-for-christian-accused-of-insulting-islam-in-whatsapp-poem/
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