Why God cannot have a son

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Like father like son?

“So the Muslim seeks clarification of the teaching and asks at every step: “How could that be so?” For example, we insist that the term “Son of God” cannot have a literal interpretation. Sonship and divine nature would be necessary attributes of such an actuality, but these are incompatible.

The first describes a recipient of life while the second describes One who received life from no one. These are mutually exclusive requirements then.

To be a son is to be less than divine, and to be divine is to be no one’s son.”

 

Dr. Gary Miller “A concise reply to Christianity – a Muslim view”



Categories: Islam

31 replies

  1. Does it matter if some Christians believe this?

    Like

    • darthtimon

      -It matters because Jesus said God is one.
      -It matters because it is wrong.
      -It matters because if God can have a literal son, then God becomes two, but God said He is 1 and Jesus said God is 1 and the ONLY true God is not Jesus Christ according to Jesus.

      -It matters because God is 1 and cannot have a wife to conceive a Son
      -It matters because wrong is wrong no matter who made that mistake. Even if God said 1+1=6, then He is wrong. God never made such a mistake except human beings. Satan can influence people to accept such mistakes thinking it is from God and God can make mistake.
      -It matters because Jesus is not the only metaphorical son of God. There are Sons/sons by tonnes in the Bible.
      -Ahmed Deedat.

      Thanks.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. But can God have an only begotten Son? The bible clearly says yes.

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  3. Why are Muslim objections so shallow? Never any interaction with the greatChristian minds and thoughts in the past, e.g generation or eternal spiration

    It’s easy to refute an argument not put forth by Christians.

    https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/is-the-eternal-generation-of-the-son-a-biblical-idea

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  4. Intellect, whom does it hurt if some Christians believe this?

    Like

    • darthtimon

      It is not the matter of hurt. It is a matter of correction. When someone says 3+3=8, it appears it does not hurt anyone but it hurts the children who may think it is true and correct and later getting confused. Saying God has a literal Son/son like Erasmus is trying to believe above hurts God and hurts Jesus Christ because Jesus said His God is the Only true God and his(Jesus ) God is 1.

      If God has a Son/son, then God is 1 and His Son/son is 1 and 1+1=2 Gods. Any Son/son is not the Father of the same Son/son. The Father has His all attributes. Jesus the Son/son does not have all the attributes of the Father.

      madmanna, a Trinitarian said, if God is 1 and possesses all His attributes, then no Person/person can possess His attributes. Jesus does not possess all the Father(God) attributes because he cannot generate the Father so Jesus is not God.

      Thanks.

      Like

  5. I don’t see how it causes hurt. It doesn’t interfere with your faith. It doesn’t interfere with Unitarian Christians. It’s a minute detail, and as mentioned in another thread, why couldn’t an omnipotent and omnipresent being exist in multiple forms at once?

    The chief focus should be on ideas which really do cause harm, such as Young Earth creationism, which is far more harmful to young minds.

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    • darthtimon

      So if someone keeps saying 2+2=7, because it does not hurt anyone he must not be corrected? I said God will not be happy to say He has son who is not a metaphorical Son. Jesus will not be happy if you say he is the son of God but not metaphorical.

      Son/son can only be metaphorical or literal. God has so many Sons/sons who are not literal. If Jesus as the son of God is not literal like begotten, the he is not the only son of God. We are all metaphorical sons of God. Not Jesus alone.

      Omnipresent means God knowledge is everywhere but not God Himself physically present everywhere.

      psalm 115:3

      …2Why should the nations say, “Where, now, is their God?” 3But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases. 4Their idols are silver and gold, The work of man’s hands.…

      New American Standard Bible

      If God is physically everywhere, then He will be in the belly of satan may God forbids. God said we must distance ourselves from satan. How will he tell us not to go near satan or idols if he is omnipresent and physically there?

      If He can exist in different forms at the same time, why did He warn us not to worship any form/anything/any image etc. if He is physically there and in any form like cow, monkey etc. that the Hindus worship?

      Psalm 103:19
      The LORD has established His throne in the heavens, And His sovereignty rules over all

      Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray you: Our Father which are in heaven, …

      NO WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD IS OMNIPRESENT OR PHYSICALLY ON EARTH.

      Thanks

      Like

    • A truly better question would be – and I keep coming back to this – what impact does it have on your faith, or the faith of Unitarians? Conflating the issue with maths (which are articles of fact) with the Trinity (which is an article of faith) is, if I am being honest, a misleading approach.

      Additionally, the definition of omnipresent is actually being everywhere at once. Or should I say, God is capable of this, if he so wishes (unless, we are capping his power?). Psalm 46:1, Isisah 57:15 implies God can be in multiple places at once.

      It all comes back though, to my original point, which is living and letting live. I’ll be honest – I find people who need to be critical of other people’s faith are usually doing so in order to boost their confidence in their own.

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  6. Intellect,

    There are two times that Jesus was begotten. One before his resurrection and the second time the resurrection itself constitutes the second act of being begotten. For this reason it cannot be an eternal process.

    King James Bible Acts 13 v 33

    God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    The first time of his being begotten is spoken of in Hebrews:

    King James Bible Hebrews 5 v 5

    So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee..

    Hebrews 1 v 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    The bible specifically says that Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Christ.

    24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

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  7. Hebrews 1 v 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    This verse clearly shows that Jesus was begotten at a particular point in time for the first time. So it cannot be an eternal process.

    The first act of being begotten is probably the incarnation as the passages in Hebrews strongly indicate.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Erasmus

      Begotten means to have sex and conceive a child. Such language is not good to use for God. That is what it means.

      The post said God does not have a son. You said God has begotten son which is in the Bible. Begotten means to have sex and give birth to a child. The verses you quoted did not answer my question. We were focusing on God not having a son and it is impossible.

      You said the Bible said God has begotten son. It means God(astaghfirullah-May God forbid) has sex to produce a child. That is the meaning of the begotten.

      That is blaspheme. Unless it is metaphorical and if it is metaphorical, God has metaphorical Sons/sons by tonnes in the Bible -Ahmed Deedat.

      Jesus cannot be the only metaphorical Son/son of God.

      Thanks.

      Like

  8. Intellect,

    “Begotten means to have sex and give birth to a child.”

    I reply,

    It doesn’t have to mean that as Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit clearly states that the resurrection of Christ is an act of being begotten. This clearly has nothing to do with sex:

    Acts 13 v 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

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    • Erasmus

      If begotten does not mean having sex to have a child, then it becomes metaphorical we are all children of God not Jesus alone. The Bible has a lot of Sons/sons of God and not Jesus alone.

      Begotten can be literal or metaphorical and Son/son can be literal or metaphorical. That is it. Jesus is a metaphorical Son/son of God like us all.

      Thanks.

      Like

    • Erasmus

      Jesus taught us to pray to his(Jesus) only true God who sent Jesus(but Jesus did not willingly or voluntarily com) and say “Our Father who is in heaven(He is in heaven not present in a form of cow or man).

      You see? Jesus said his Father is our Father and all of us including Jesus are metaphorical Sons/sons of God not literal. Jesus can be special like other prophets and I wholeheartedly accept that. It does not make him God.

      Thanks.

      Like

    • Erasmus

      You said this;

      Erasmus

      September 2, 2016 • 11:37 pm

      Intellect,

      “Begotten means to have sex and give birth to a child.”

      I reply,

      It doesn’t have to mean that as Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit clearly states that the resurrection of Christ is an act of being begotten. This clearly has nothing to do with sex

      I say;
      Begotten means to have sex and produce a child. That is what the word means. If a son is used without having sex by the caller, then it is metaphorical, adopted, taken, chosen etc. and all is metaphorical but not literal.

      Son and begotten can only be literal or metaphorical and you said there was no sex in the case of Jesus so it is metaphorical.

      You also said this

      Also the Father – Son relationship is created at the incarnation. In this sense also the Son is begotten. This is also not metaphorical but real.

      I say;
      No. It cannot be so. Begotten means to have sex and produce a child and you said there was no sex so it cannot be “begotten”.

      It can be In vitro fertilization where a sperm from man is withdrawn and kept in a test tube to fertilize before inserting it into the womb of a woman to produce a child.

      Is it in vitro fertilization of Jesus Christ? Begotten means to have sex and produce a child and that is what it means. Or metaphorical.

      You cannot eat your cake and still have it. You said there is no sex involved so it is metaphorical or in vitro fertilization of Jesus Christ.

      You can not say the begotten of Jesus Christ is not literal, not metaphorical and not IVF. That are the process of Son and begotten that we know.

      Any change of the “begotten” we know is a lie. It is like 5+5=12 is not true but wrong and lie, even if God say so. God taught is truth and lies and warn us not to tell lies. So He will not tell us a lie.

      Thanks.

      Like

  9. It’s a change involved with the physical body of the incarnated Word so it can’t be metaphorical.

    At the incarnation it was it’s creation. At the resurrection it was it’s transformation.

    So it can’t be metaphorical.

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  10. Also the Father – Son relationship is created at the incarnation. In this sense also the Son is begotten. This is also not metaphorical but real.

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  11. The quran says that allah can have a son if he so chooses – and that he can take a concubine from his creation if he wants to.

    Given this, the OP proves that allah is not the ultimate divine being.

    Like

    • “They say “Allah has taken a son”. Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him, Originator of the heavens and the earth. When he decrees a matter, He only says to it, “Be”. and it is.” – Qur’an 2:115-116

      What need is there to take something when you literally own everything?

      Like

    • Patrice

      Yes everything belongs to God but He has taken people like prophets to be His messengers. Among the prophets He has TAKEN some of them as His friends, Sons, Prophets again, Messiah etc.

      It means God can take his creations and give them status, title or delegate some of His powers to them. All does not make them God.

      God said if he wish a Son, he will just take one among His creations but it does not mean He gave birth the Son and the Son is God. It is metaphorical Son/son. That is what the Quran is talking about.

      You see God was not happy about the literal Son/son and blame Christians who thinks that way. If son is not metaphorical then the Son is literal son.

      Then the next verse God clarified that the only son He can have is to choose one among His CREATIONS.

      Some Christians did not understand the Arabic or interpretation of this verse and think God is talking about literal son. No. That is not the case. God blamed those who do not think about the metaphorical son and later in the verse God said He would have chosen a Son AMONG HIS CREATIONS. It is metaphorical because He did not give birth to them because He had already CREATED them.

      Trey, this one is for you as well. You seem to mistranslate the Arabic Quran.

      Thanks.

      Like

  12. Intellect said: “Begotten means a son who came out of sexual intercourse between male and female. Do you mean God(astaghfirullah-may God forbid) had sex with someone to produce a Son/son?”

    Question, what about IVF and birth through a surrogate mother?

    Have the parents in this case not begotten a child because they didn’t have sex? Try telling them that. I have a feeling that they will not agree.

    Like

    • Wow! So now God ‘begot’ a son through IVF! What a crazy comparison! Christians are getting desperate!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Tulip

      IVF is a later discovery. It still does not change “begotten” that means to have sex and produce a Son/son.

      I have been talking about IVF on this blog for some time now. That procedure can produce a Son/son but in all cases the is physical insertion into a woman womb and fertilization as well.

      Fertilization of the egg is a common factor of IVF and Sex. So God cannot be fertilized by someone’s egg or sperm.

      Thanks.

      Like

  13. Remember, the son was infinitesimally small in comparison to the father. Doesn’t that offer a new perspective to the question?

    Like

  14. Hi Intellect
    What do you mean when you say God is one? If you are a Muslim then you will teach that God is genderless.

    So Allah is one what how would you describe Allah’s?

    Intellect said: “Begotten means a son who came out of sexual intercourse between male and female. Do you mean God(astaghfirullah-may God forbid) had sex with someone to produce a Son/son

    What Christian believes what you just said?

    Like

    • defendchrist

      I am not defending what Christians believing but I am defending what “begotten” means. It means to have sex and produce a son.

      Erasmus said that the “begotten” is not metaphorical even though when you scroll up a bit you will see where he said it is metaphorical.

      Christians i.e. Trinitarians can not take any word and turn it upside down, side ways, right angle, left angle just to suit their whims and caprice without correction.

      Imagine if some one says having sex is not literal and continue to have sex with peoples wives and expected to be accepted and say “oh that is what he believes”.

      Begotten and a Son means that son came through sexual intercourse or in vitro fertilization through test tube and later inseminating in a womb.

      Thanks.

      Like

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