Today’s Independent reports:
A former mayor who “dedicated his life to Jesus” repeatedly sexually assaulted a four-year-old girl and blamed her for being a “willing participant”.
Richard Keenan, who served as mayor of Hubbard, Ohio, between 2010 and 2011, has been indicted with eight counts of rape and 12 counts of attempted rape and gross sexual imposition.
He pleaded not guilty last month, but prosecutors said he had admitted the assault to his wife, a pastor, a social worker and his brother and sister-in-law, as reported by the Youngstown Vindicator.
The period of assault, he reportedly admitted, spanned a three-year period, starting when the girl was four years old.
The child told his wife about the abuse and she confronted Keenan.
“I did it,” he said, according to court documents.
Keenan reportedly checked himself into a psychiatric facility as he felt suicidal. He told a social worker that he had started assaulting the child in September 2013 but that she had “initiated” the abuse, calling her a “willing participant”.
Spouses may testify if they wish under Ohio law, while the pastor will not be forced to testify about any admissions Keenan made to him.
In 2010, Keenan, who also worked for the city council in the 1990s and was a probation officer, told the same publication that he had “dedicated [his] life to Jesus”.
The former mayor will stand trial in April and has been released on $75,000 bail with the order to not have any contact with minors.
He faces life imprisonment.
Categories: Evil
Blogging Theology 
Amazing how the author managed to squeeze the photo of a family grieving their loved ones killed in an attack in Kabul a few years ago into an article about this sick man from Ohio.
http://www.goo.gl/CNKAy0
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If the guy had been a muslim and he had been married to the girl would it have been okay according to sharia?
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nope.
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Mohammed married a six year old girl and had sex with her when she was nine.
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when she was deemed to be a woman, in traditional cultures.
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So the age of the girl does not matter so long as the culture deems sex with her to be okay?
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odd conclusion. My understanding that the minimum age for marriage (and consummation) is puberty. Same as the Bible. Mary was probably 12 years old and her husband Joseph is usually seen as a much older man. The shariah teaches that muslims must obey the law of the land they are living in.
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I’ve seen no biblical evidence that shows mary’s age. Regardless, 6 years old is not puberty and neither is nine.
And I wasn’t drawing a conclusion – your comment suggests relativism. You said that traditional cultures – whatever that means – would view mohammed’s child bride as a woman as a defence of his having had sex with a 9 year old.
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recent studies by top NT scholars in the US have suggested Mary was probably around 12 years old when she married.
The biblical norm for marriage is puberty.
Aisha was a woman when the marriage was consummated.
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Aisha was 9 years old.
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so? She was physiologically a woman.
Mary was probably 12 years old.
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She was physiologically a woman? So you think that grown men should be allowed to have sex with 9 year old girls?
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That’s assuming the hadith is true, which , if you do your research, is unlikely
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Yeah, that’s always the excuse.
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So you think that grown men should be allowed to have sex with 12 year old girls?
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Not in the least. We are not told that Joseph is an example for all time.
Besides, there’s no biblcial support for Mary being 12 when she married joseph.
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So when God chose Mary and Joseph to be the parents of Jesus he made a big blunder? Do you condemn God?
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Paul
Mary was virgin when she conceived jesus. It’s in the quran.
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indeed.
Now answer MY question:
when God chose Mary and Joseph to be the parents of Jesus he made a big blunder? Do you condemn God?
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How did god blunder in that situation?
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oh come on dude don’t play dumb.
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I’m not playing dumb. Your question makes no sense. How did god blunder in that situation? Clarify the question and i’ll answer you.
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when God chose Mary and Joseph to be the parents of Jesus he made a big blunder? Do you condemn God?
The biblical norm for the age of marriage is puberty, about 12 for girls. Christian tradition portrays Joseph as a much older man.
Do you think that grown men should be allowed to have sex with 12 year old girls?
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You are still not making any sense. There is no evidence that mary was 12 years old when joseph married her. What exactly is god’s blunder here? MAry was a virgin when she gave birth to jesus.
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I am making perfect sense.
The Catholic Encyclopaedia says:
“When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, “the Lord’s brother”). A year after his wife’s death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.”
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm
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Paul
It is people like you and your fanbois that cause people to turn away from god. The bible is authoritative and mary’s age is never discussed so your attempts to defend the prophet’s child sex antics by deflecting onto man-made theories are failing miserably.
Aisha was 9 and probably suffered because she was forced to have sex before her body and mind were mature enough to deal with and understand what was happening to her.
You support grown men having sex with children – you’ve said as much. That makes you a supporter of pedophilia.
Tell me, do you condemn Jimmy Saville for having sex with under age girls?
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blah blah blah. You have been schooled and refuted.
Time you accepted the truth and moved on with your life dude…
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Paul
You said that you have no problem with grown men marrying 9 year olds – what that refutes I don’t know.
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Trey, what age did Jesus set or recommend for marriage?
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Jesus taught us to use our brains and be guided by love for others. That means not harming others – making a 6 year old commit to a marriage, and having sex with a 9 year old are not in the best interests of them.
Young poeple are damaged psychologically and physically by being made to have sex with fully grown men. Here’s some issues with having sex with children….
http://jpepsy.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/5/450.full
Acting out of love for another human being would not permit someone to cause this kind of suffering.
WHat do you think? Should grown men be allowed to have sex with 9 year old girls even though it is likely to cause them immense suffering?
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your link is irrelevant as it discusses sexual abuse. Aisha was a woman.
always asking – never answering any questions Trey!
Now answer MY question:
When God chose Mary and Joseph to be the parents of Jesus did He made a big blunder?
Do you condemn God?
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I just answered kmak’s question.
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Trey: Young poeple are damaged psychologically and physically by being made to have sex with fully grown men.
What good reasons do we have for believing that Aisha was psychologically and physically damaged from her relationship with Muhammad?
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kmak
Aisha was never able to have children and she became quite aggressive after the death of mohammed.
Also, if we use Paul’s reasoning there is a high probability of her suffering greatly due to having sex while still a child because there is a high probability of suffering recorded in present day cases.
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Trey, she was not a child, she was a woman. You use todays Western values anachronistically to judge 7th century Arabia, thereby also condemning God’s choice of Mary and Joseph who was probably around 12 when she married the older Joseph.
You fail the consistency test.
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Trey: Aisha was never able to have children and she became quite aggressive after the death of mohammed.
None of Muhammad’s wives after Khadijah bore him children. So? As for becoming aggressive, was she aggressive in the same way the abused are or in a different way?
Trey: Also, if we use Paul’s reasoning there is a high probability of her suffering greatly due to having sex while still a child because there is a high probability of suffering recorded in present day cases.
Sure. There’s also a high probability that if she suffered greatly then evidence of this should appear in our sources. So do the data that we have about her support the hypothesis that she suffered greatly?
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Paul
So you are arguing relativism. It’s what I said earlier.
There’s no evidence that Mary was 12 when she married Joseph – and you keep banging your head against the wall with that same fallacy. Repeating it doesn’t make it true. On the other hand, mohammed’s having sex with aisha when she was 9 is well documented. The bible makes no mention of mary’s age, and makes it clear that she was a virgin when he conceived jesus.
kmak
you are moving the goalposts. You asked for evidence that aisha suffered from having sex while she was not fully grown and I gave you some. Her aggressiveness and her inability to have children symptomatic of modern day abused children.
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Trey all your points have been throughly answered with citations from leading scholars and historians.
Enough said.
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Also Paul, you say that Aisha was “a woman” at the age of 9 – that has nothing to do culture, or the historical era. If a 9 year old can be a woman at that time, then modern day 9 year olds who meet the same criteria could be considered “women”.
That’s pretty disgusting, as you would probably agree.
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you are letting your cultural prejudices have the upper hand. I see nothing wrong with a man marrying a woman even at such a young age.
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Thanks for your honesty.
A 9 year old girl is not a woman though, her mind and emotions will be immature and her sex organs will be underdeveloped. This means that the sex will be extremely painful, and likely to cause long term damage that could affect childbearing and even urination. Such damage often develops into painful fibroids later on in life. They get recurrent vaginal infections,inflammation, gastro-intestinal disorders, chronic pelvic pain, menstrual irregularities, not to mention a whole host of psychological problems.
WHat a sick worldview that would condemn 9 year old girls to such a terrible fate.
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a lot of accusation with no evidence at all. Maybe women matured earlier at that time than today? Have you considered that?
Do you condemn God for favouring a girl probably aged just 12 (or possibly younger) who married St Joseph?
There is a fundamental inconsistency in your argument. As a great scholar once said:
‘inconsistency is a sign of a failed argument.’
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You’ll be happy to hear that I can’t talk to you any more – your feeble attempts to justify horrendous injuries to 9 year old girls is as bad as you having sex with one yourself.
And really, maybe “women matured much earlier'”? Really?
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inconsistency is a sign of a failed argument. Epic fail. 😉
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Trey, what kind of characteristics did Aisha’s aggression embody that would point to her being abused in childhood?
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kmak
Aisha’s 9 year old body was subjected to full sex with a grown man. Unless the prophet was under-endowed – and I hope for Aisha’s sake he was – it is almost certain that her genitals were damaged and torn.
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Trey, what do the data about Aisha’s life indicate?
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The data indicates that her immature 9 year old body was made to engage in sex with a fully grown man. She likely suffered immensely as a result.
Do you also agree with Paul that grown men should be allowed to have sex with children?
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I never said that Trey. Your comments are just cheap propaganda. You are obviously enjoying yourself.
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Trey: The data indicates that her immature 9 year old body was made to engage in sex with a fully grown man. She likely suffered immensely as a result.
Do the data point to her showing signs of abuse? Please don’t skirt around this issue. Either put up or stfu.
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Paul
You are dishonest as well as a supporter of child marriage. You said earlier that you have no problem with grown men marrying children – you just redefined a 9 year old child as a woman.
kmak
The evidence shows that when 9 year old girls are made to engage is sex with grown men they suffer immense physical and psychological pain.
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blah blah propaganda
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Blah blah blah says Mr “sex with children is okay.”
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Trey, you do realize that you’re avoiding my questions?
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I’ve answered your questions thoroughly. Are you one of those perverts who claim that if a child appears not to be damaged by sexual abuse then it is somehow justified?
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Trey: I’ve answered your questions thoroughly.
You didn’t answer my questions. Try being honest for a second. So I’ll ask again. Do the data about Aisha’s life indicate she displayed signs of abuse?
Trey: Are you one of those perverts who claim that if a child appears not to be damaged by sexual abuse then it is somehow justified?
No, I am not one of those perverts. Are you?
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not really. And you have failed to answer mine. Very revealing.
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you guys are hilarious. You make a post condemning a guy (rightfully) for abusing a chlld and you refuse to condemn men having sex with 9 year olds.
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it was a different era, a different culture. By your logic you would condemn God for choosing Mary to be mother of Jesus.
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Paul
How many times do I have to say it? Mary was virgin – you do know what a virgin is don’t you?
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not really. The Bible says she had many children, James etc. So I do not get your point
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The bible and the quran say Mary was a virgin when she had jesus – a point you seem to think shows that god blundered.
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if you condemn Muhammad you must condemn Joseph – and God.
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Are you comparing mohammed to god?
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of course not.
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Actually, you are comparing mohammed to god.
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lol no. Don’t be silly.
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Most early church fathers believed Mary was married off when she was 12 years old and Joseph the carpenter was a very old man. Here is the list of fathers who believed that Joseph was fourscore years old when he married 12-year-old Mary:
1. Epiphanius (310 – 403AD)
2. Hilary (Hilarius) of Poitiers (300 – 368AD)
3. John Chrysostom (Born between 344 and 349 – Died 407 AD)
4. Cyril of Alexandria (376 – 444 AD)
5. Saint Euthymius the Great (377 – 473 AD)
6. Theophylact of Ohrid (also known as Theophylact of Bulgaria) (1055 – 1107 AD)
7. Cecumenius
8. Eusebius (263 – 339 AD)
https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/30/marriage-of-mary-to-joseph-the-carpenter/
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Hilarious. You’re quoting a muslim internet blog as your source in addition to a random list of early church fathers doe evidence? MAry was a virgin – Aisha’s virginity was gone by the age of 9.
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The sources cited are ALL Jewish or Christian like this one from a top evangelical OT scholar:
Old Testament Scholar Gordon Wenham:
“In reality social custom and pressures greatly curtailed the sexual freedom of men in the Bible times. First, marriages were customarily arranged by parents, as soon as children passed puberty. This meant that there were few unattached girls: most females of marriageable age were either married or betrothed….” [18]
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That sounds like quote-mining. It doesn’t say that 6 year olds were married off to old men.
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Did you not read this?
Old Testament Scholar Gordon Wenham
“In reality social custom and pressures greatly curtailed the sexual freedom of men in the Bible times. First, marriages were customarily arranged by parents, as soon as children passed puberty. This meant that there were few unattached girls: most females of marriageable age were either married or betrothed….” [18]
So Mary might have been as old as Aisha when the marriage was consummated.
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HArd as you try you just cannot defend an old man having sex with a 9 year old. The passage does not say that young girls were married off to old men.
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‘HArd as you try you just cannot defend an old man having sex with a 12 year old.’
epic FAIL
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There is no evidence from the bible that mary was 12 when she married joseph.
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yawn.
I have cited top scholars who have discussed when girls got married at that time. Here is one of your own historians:
Old Testament Scholar Gordon Wenham
“In reality social custom and pressures greatly curtailed the sexual freedom of men in the Bible times. First, marriages were customarily arranged by parents, as soon as children passed puberty. This meant that there were few unattached girls: most females of marriageable age were either married or betrothed….” [18]
So Mary might have been as old as Aisha when the marriage was consummated.
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A fallacious appeal to probability does not a truth make.
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it is not fallacious to cite responsible historical scholarship on the likely age of Mary’s marriage to , and sex with, Joseph.
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It’s a classic fallacy.
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only in your fevered imagination.
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In Biblical times people were married at a very young age. Girls were usually betrothed before they reached puberty – majority of the time the marriage would have consummated when the girl reached puberty, and that was usually between the ages of 8, 9 or older,(Note: when a girl reached puberty prior to the 20th century, she was considered to be an adult in most cultures/societies). In this article I will mostly quote Scholarly sources to prove that marriage in ancient Israelite times took place at a very young age, sometimes the girls who were married off were pre-pubescent. There was no law against a pre-pubescent girl being married off. Actually as you will read further, you will come to realise that the Mishnah gave approval for a Man to have intercourse to a betrothed girl, any-time after the age of three years old.
https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/14/bible-child-marriage-in-ancient-israelite-times-paedophilia/
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Professor Geza Vermes who is well-known and a respected scholar comments that Pre-pubescent girls were allowed to be married.
“…the Greek parthenos could also mean that the girl was young and/or unmarried. In fact, in the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament parthenos was used to render three distinct Hebrew words, ‘Virgin’, ‘girl’ and ‘young woman’. Already Rabbis in the Tannaitic era (first to second century ad) subscribed to further nuances, and there is no reason to think that all these were invented by them. Even the word betulah, which normally means virgo intact, when used by them could carry the laternal sense of bodily immaturity with the consequential inability to conceive. In Rabbinic terminology this type of virginity in a woman ceased with the physical onset of puberty. The Mishnah, the oldest of the rabbinic codes, defines a virgin as a female who ‘has never seen blood even though she is married’ (mNiddah 1:4). The Tosefta, another early Jewish code of law, claims in the name of Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus (late first century ad) that such a woman would continue to count as a virgin even after she had conceived and borne children without prior menstruation (tNiddah 1:6)! To understand these statements, we must remember that in the InterTestamental and early rabbinic age, pre-puberty marriage was generally permitted. In fact rabbis seriously debated whether bloodstains found after the wedding night in nuptial bed of a minor, i.e. a ‘virgin in respect of menstruation’, marked her first period or the consummation of the marriage.” [10]
https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/14/bible-child-marriage-in-ancient-israelite-times-paedophilia/
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Paul
Chritians aren’t called to imitate bronze age men or their social practices. What’s your point here?
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My point is clear. You have avoided dealing with it over and over.
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It is not clear. Should grown men be allowed to have sex with 9 year old girls? As a christian, I’m not obliged to imitate the actions of ancient societies. Nor do the actions of bronze age men make similar actions today permissible.
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‘It is not clear. Should grown men be allowed to have sex with 12 year old girls?’
Then or now?
I’m still waiting for an answer…
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WHere does it say in the bible that mary was 12 when joseph had sex with her?
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It does not say it anywhere, but as a child of her time and culture we can deduce the following:
“In reality social custom and pressures greatly curtailed the sexual freedom of men in the Bible times. First, marriages were customarily arranged by parents, as soon as children passed puberty. This meant that there were few unattached girls: most females of marriageable age were either married or betrothed….” [18]
So Mary might have been as old as Aisha when the marriage was consummated.
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That is such poor reasoning. We might be ale to deduce probilities, but not certainties. With Aisha the texts are clear, she was 9 years old when mohammed had sex with her. There are no texts that state that mary was 12 when she had sex with joseph.
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It is probable (all historical judgements are merely probable) that Mary was around about 12 when she had intercourse with Joseph.
Same with the hadith in question. It is not certain – just probable.
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LOL
So you follow a sunnah that is only “probable”?
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do you what the sunnah is and how it is understood by Islamic scholars?
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Evangelical Old Testament Scholar Gordon Wenham:
“In reality social custom and pressures greatly curtailed the sexual freedom of men in the Bible times. First, marriages were customarily arranged by parents, as soon as children passed puberty. This meant that there were few unattached girls: most females of marriageable age were either married or betrothed….” [18]
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Paul Williams
“””you are letting your cultural prejudices have the upper hand. I see nothing wrong with a man marrying a woman even at such a young age””””
So if you had a 9 year old daughter or niece and 55 year old asked you for her hand in marriage, you’d give it your blessing?
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if my daughter had reached puberty, and we lived in 7th century Arabia, and the man was the Prophet of God, then yes of course!
Let me ask you: if you had a daughter (say 11 or 12 years old) and a much older man (lets call him Joseph) asked for your permission to marry her, would you agree?
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Furious Sylez
If she reaches puberty and there is no law restriction and the 55 year old is a noble man I and my daughter will be pleased for such a noble person to marry her. That is what happened to the prophet. It was Abubakar who offered his daughter to the prophet.
If marrying a 9 year old was a crime or sin or bad at that time do you think Abubakar the Father of Ayisha would be happy to offer his daughter to the prophet?
Why did Abubakar not offered his daughter for marriage at 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 but 9? He could easily had offered her for marriage at 1. Why did he not do that? It is not permissible and no puberty and the Jews, Muslims and Christians at that time would have blamed the prophet and Abubakar.
The Age limit of 14,15,16,17,18 etc. was just recent laws as late as the 1960’s and so before then, people use common sense. Before the age limit, there was no mass marriage of children except they are fit, and puberty.
God did not provide the age limit Himself because younger girls with no tantalizing parts are not attractive to most sane people except insane people, so God knows automatically men would like to marry someone with matured body that is at the puberty state/stage and age limit is not necessary.
Honestly children with no puberty and less tantalizing parts are automatically not attractive to sane men and that is how God created us. Before the age limit, our ancient ancestors gave birth to us from generation after generation with no mass child molestation, teenage pregnancies, minor prostitutions, gangs, drugs etc.
Now, the 9 year olds, 10,1,12,13……..are having sex and no one is there to take care of them and they are burden to societies. The age limit has caused more problems than good.
Thanks.
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Furious Stylez
Paul has already admitted further up the thread that he sees no problem with a 9 year old marrying and having sex with grown men. He endorses the legalization of child marriage and sex with children.
Paul
Would you marry a 9 year old girl?
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Trey
September 15, 2016 • 8:10 pm
You’ll be happy to hear that I can’t talk to you any more – your feeble attempts to justify horrendous injuries to 9 year old girls is as bad as you having sex with one yourself.
And really, maybe “women matured much earlier’”? Really?
I say;
What evidence do you have from Jesus or from the Bible that marrying a 9 year old is a crime or a sin? Do not give me the modern day law that was passed in the middle of 1900’s and as late as 1960’s that put the age limit to 16,17,18 etc. with no universal acceptance of the age limit. So the common sense at that time is 9 year old can be married because of puberty and social factor of preventing pre marital sex, teenage pregnancy, burden in society, disrespect, lack of adherence to religion etc.
These problems are major these days.
You said the Bible said common sense and I say the Quran said common sense and puberty. Medically today, a 9 year old can reach puberty today. Back then, it is permissible under their international law to marry a 9 year old because it does not affect anyone. So you have no case.
Judging a someone with a current law that is absent from his time is a big mistake and sometimes a sin. Jesus Christ turned peoples table upside down and that would have been property damage and disorderly conduct today that could land Jesus Christ into Jail.
Mary the mother of Jesus was obviously a young woman because if really know history you will realize that Jews allow their children to marry early to escape fornication, teenage pregnancy, sex outside marriage and all the social vices.
No law at prophets Mohammed time from the Jews, Pagan, Christians, Muslims etc. prevents any one from marrying a 9 year old woman, and no one blame the prophet on that one because they are all marrying younger women.
The law for age limit was just recent and some King’s of England are noted for marrying younger women who will be considered under age these days. England would have arrested their King and put him to Jail at that time if the follow recent laws at that time.
You do follow the example of Jesus Christ but you will not go and turn peoples table upside down because it will land you to jail now a days.
We follow Prophet Mohammed’s Sunnah but anthropological changes at his time like girls puberty is different from today and the laws of today will not allow one to marry a 9 year old. At his time it is ok and he was blamed for other things by the Jews and Christians at his time but not on this one because they also marry young women like Joseph marrying the younger mother of Jesus.
Some Church Fathers follow the example of Jesus Christ by not marrying and they end up having sex with minors and Pope Benedict i.e. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger came to apologise to the victims and their families. Who tells you Christians do not follow the example of Jesus Christ?
Thanks.
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Intellect
You would marry and have sex with a 9 year old?
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Trey
You would marry and have sex with a 12 year old?
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Paul
Absolutely not. Joseph is not an example for all time and you still have provided no evidence that mary was actually 12 except a fallacious appeal to probability.
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Lol silly there is nothing fallacious in citing expert historians. You just ignore them cos you are insincere.
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Trey says “Joseph is not an example for all time”
The minimum age for marriage in the US-State of Delaware in year 1880 was 7. In “God’s own country”.
Trey you should get off your high horse. It’s part of fundamentalist missionaries’ strategy to claim a morally higher ground. Empty claims. Smoke screens.
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Paul Williams
“Lol silly there is nothing fallacious in citing expert historians. You just ignore them cos you are insincere.”
I ignore your attempts at justifying child marriage and sex because, one, they are disgusting, and two, no amount of probability conjecture proves that mary was only 12. There are no indications in scripture that mary was 12, no matter how hard you try to defend sex with children by trying to make everyone look as bad as mohammed.
I’ll say it again, Paul, there is no command in christianity to imitate joseph, so there is no reason to do what he did.
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I never said there was. You miss my point. You attack Muhammad yet God chose Mary and Jospeh to the the parents of the messiah. They are declared saints by the church.
You are happy with that because you inconsistent, and inconsistency is a sign of a failed argument.
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So, I’ll ask you again, would you marry and have sex with a 9 year old?
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So, I’ll ask you again, would you marry and have sex with a 12 year old as Jospeh probably did according to historians.
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I’ve already answered you Paul. Absolutely not – I would not marry any child. And there is no solid evience that mary was 12 – repeating that fallacy does not make it true.
Now you. Your prophet married a 6 year old and had sex with her when she was 9 and muslims are commanded to follow his example.
Would you marry and have sex with a 9 year old? You have already defended the right of men to do so, would you?
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So you condemn the marriage foreordained by God Himself! In today’s society Jospeh would be arrested for child rape, Mary taken into care, Jesus would find himself without any parents, an orphan, and you would be delighted!
What a Christian!
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Paul
You have supported the abuse of children – no one is fooled by your faux shock.
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lol silly
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You are a good muslim, Paul. You would even defend child abuse to save your prophet from criticism.
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“”if my daughter had reached puberty, and we lived in 7th century Arabia, and the man was the Prophet of God, then yes of course!””
Goal posts successfully shifted. 😂
That’s not what you said though. You stated, and I quote ” I see nothing wrong with a man marrying a woman even at such a young age ”
Now you put conditions on it, 7th century and has to be a prophet of God lol. You Muslims are so pathetic the way you bend over backwards and squirm to make excuses for your sexual deviant prophet. You KNOW full well you’d be appalled if a middle aged man wanted to marry your 9 year old daughter. But you make an exception because it’s your false prophet.
Also as has been pointed out to you several times already, the bible makes no mention or indication of Mary & Joseph’s age. Perhaps young marriages were more common in that culture who knows. But that doesn’t mean Mary was 12, it’s just as likely she was 15, 16, 17 maybe older. You got to do better than speculation, conjecture and a tu quoque fallacy to work your way out of this.
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these issues have already been discussed exhaustively on this thread, and I have cited many quotes from historians and scholars to enlighten you. I will not be wasting any more time repeating myself.
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Concession noted.
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Furious Stylez
You said;
Also as has been pointed out to you several times already, the bible makes no mention or indication of Mary & Joseph’s age. Perhaps young marriages were more common in that culture who knows. But that doesn’t mean Mary was 12, it’s just as likely she was 15, 16, 17 maybe older. You got to do better than speculation, conjecture and a tu quoque fallacy to work your way out of this.
I say;
The 12 was found in various Christian sources just like the 9 is found in various Muslim sources but not from the Quran.
The Trinity or 3 persons 1 God is not found in the Bible. Why do you believe in 3 persons God then? The Quran did not mention the age of the prophet and Ayisha and are you going to discard the age?
The Bible did not also say marrying a 9 year old is a sin. Some one said, it is puberty and common sense to marry a girl in both the Bible and the Quran.
Why did God not put age limit for marriage in all his scriptures but stressing on only puberty?. You are blaming God then, for not putting the age limit in His scriptures.
God knows that sane men are only attracted to puberty women with tantalizing parts and therefore age limit is not necessary and from the creation of the world people were able to marry and produce without mass raping of younger girls because the younger girls are not attractive to sane men except insane men now a days.
The age limit was very recent and you are not wise to keep depending on it to insult the people of the past, including God who did not make any age limit.
People in the past marry early especially the Jews. If 9 is early for you today 9 is not early for them at their time and there is no document for age limit at that time so judging people of the past with todays age limit is not a wise thing to do unless the age limit is in the Bible or Jewish documents.
You said Mary was LIKELY, LIKELY 15 and I will say she is LIKELY 12. Jews Mary early, so she is likely to be 12 as most documents said and will you insult your God Jesus Christ? for impregnating his mother who gave birth to God(Himself)?
Thanks.
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This is EVIL, this man is EVIL what he did is EVIL.
The irony of course is that if he was a Muslim and the girl had been a few years older, some Muslims who take the Sunnah of Mohamed seriously would consider what this mad did just marital duty and obligation.
Still yet if this young girl would have been owned as a slave by a Muslim (right hand posses) and he forced himself on her, there would be NO rape, as it is hallah from Allah.
Still further, if another Muslim would have forced himself on what the other Muslim owned it would NOT be rape just Property Damage.
Yah you guys are barbaric.
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total silliness and rubbish.
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So classifying what this man did as EVIL, classifying the man himself as EVIL, is “Total Silliness, and rubbish”?
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yep. You are correct.
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Why is that? Do you think what he did was Evil? Is this man Evil?
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Just an Average Joe
Jesus Christ as God commanded prophet Abraham to rape his slave and produced illegitimate child and is not part of the covenant because he is illegitimate.
Jesus Christ mother Marry married Joseph at 12 according to Christian sources and gave birth to God. It is mad for God to have 12 year old girl impregnated by Him and giving birth to him.
Some Christian clergy are following the mad man Jesus by not marrying and end up having sex with children and Pope Benedict i.e. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger came out publicly to apologize to the victims of the raped victims of the Church Fathers who follow the example of mad Jesus.
Note: I am referring to the Jesus as depicted in the Bible not Jesus as depicted in the Quran. Jesus of the Quran is not mad to turn peoples tables upside down for disorderly conduct and property damage.
Thanks.
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Intellect the difference between what you wrote and what I wrote is as follows.
You had to make it up, I did not.
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It speaks loudly to the issue that this man is in jail, faces a long prison term, and that the wife of the perpetrator not only believed the child, she confronted him as well.
This differs dramatically from the story of poor little “Rawan”. Merely eight years of age, she was forced into a marriage with a grown man who physically assaulted her young frame to the point where she sustained such severe internal injury that she died.
The husband was 40 years old.
Yemen had set their law to limit the age of consent to 15 and up. But rescinded the law in the 1990’s, leaving the age up to the parent’s to decide. But in a culture where poverty breeds necessity, and where culture is religiously defined (aka Muhammad and Aisha), it would be difficult to monitor the law anyway.
The whole event could be excused by “tribalism” were it not for the fact that tribalism doesn’t occur in a vacuum. Tribalism is the spawn of belief systems and an adherence to a world view that refuses to acknowledge the possibility of the tribal construct being wrong, even though it may well have been around for centuries.
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Leah like I said they have to make things up, we do not.
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Leah
You said;
Yemen had set their law to limit the age of consent to 15 and up. But rescinded the law in the 1990’s, leaving the age up to the parent’s to decide. But in a culture where poverty breeds necessity, and where culture is religiously defined (aka Muhammad and Aisha), it would be difficult to monitor the law anyway.
I say;
Before (aka Mohamed and Aisha) people marry young and early and there was no law of any age limit from the Bible or any scripture or any international law. So marrying early is not the legacy of (aka Mohammed and Aisha).
It is customary for Jews to marry early and no age limit until recently as in the middle 1900’s, so it is not wise to hold someone in the past for modern standards.
So many Christians like Warren Jeff marry young girls and multiple wives until captured and put into jail. He said he is a true Christian (aka Joseph and Mary) or (Abraham and his slave) who Jesus commanded to produce illegitimate child and Jesus refuses him his covenant.
So many Christians like Pastor Eddie Lee Long, Jimmy Swaggart, etc. and Church Fathers molesting children and fornication could be the incest permitted in the Bible and David adultery.
Thanks.
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Intellect
Rumours of Mary’s age is based on nothing but speculation and conjecture. Aisha’s age is firmly documented by your most trusted sources outside the Quran.
While it’s true teenage marriages amoungst girls were probably common in the Jewish culture of that time. It doesn’t mean ALL 12 year old girls were married off. Some could have been 12 some could have been older. That’s why I said it’s just as likely Mary was older than 12. Who is to say she wasn’t 15, 16 or 17 or more ? It’s all speculation.
And the trinity is in the bible.
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”
Matthew 28:19
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Paul Williams
Here are some more sources for you:
[While the Bible does not specifically state how old Mary was when Jesus was born, most Christian historians speculate that she was around 15—16 years of age at the time of Jesus’ birth. According to Jewish customs at the time, a young woman might become betrothed to a young man as early as 12 years of age, though the consummation of their marriage through ceremony and physical intimacy would not happen until they were legally married, many months or even years later.]
http://www.gotquestions.org/how-old-was-Mary.html
[The usual age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls. Considering the circumstances described in the Gospel and giving enough weight to Jewish practices 2000 years back Mary was 13 when angel Gabriel appeared before her. Please also note that Mary was not subjected to a physical relation with God. According to our best knowledge she was 14 at the time of giving birth to Jesus.]
https://www.quora.com/How-old-was-Mary-mother-of-Jesus-when-she-gave-birth-to-Jesus
[Some apocryphal accounts state that at the time of her betrothal to Joseph, Mary was 12–14 years old, and he was thirty years old, but such accounts are unreliable.]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_mother_of_Jesus
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No one who is 9 (or 12) is psychologically a woman, irrespective of culture. How can anyone of that age understand what marriage (let alone sex) is? This is why we have consent laws – regardless of puberty, someone’s physical readiness for sex does not equate to emotional or psychological readiness.
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History says otherwise. It is only in the 20th century that the legal age of consent has risen dramatically. Traditional cultures then and now see adulthood as starting at puberty. The danger here is that we universalise a particular set of western norms (which are always changing).
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Yet in what fashion could a nine year old ever be ready for marriage, let alone sex? I for one very much prefer Western norms in this instance, which protect children.
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Because, as I have said repeatedly, in traditional cultures puberty marks the onset of adulthood, and therefore marriage possible. This was the case in the west too until recently.
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darthtimon
September 16, 2016 • 10:04 am
Yet in what fashion could a nine year old ever be ready for marriage, let alone sex? I for one very much prefer Western norms in this instance, which protect children.
I say;
No any age limit in the Bible, any ancient manuscript or any ancient culture. To force the recent age limit to God and people of the past is not a wise thing to do.
God knows younger children through their physical body are not attractive at all to any sane man unless those insane people now a days who are molesting children including Church Fathers and pastors.
Women start to be attracted to sane men when they reach puberty state/stage and developing the tantalizing parts.
From creations and generations upon generations, there was no mass child molestation until now that the age limit was set.
The old and ancient generations were able to marry and produce children from generations to generations and there was no mass child sex ever recorded without age limit because younger children/girls are not attractive to men because that is how God created us.
If a 9 year old is not attractive to you and is not at her puberty state/stage now, back then it is the opposite and no law from God from any society or Jews who marry early forbade marrying a 9 year old back then.
According to historians Mary the mother of Jesus was 12.
What has the age limit now a days corrected when it comes to sex? The 9 year olds, 10 year olds, 11, 12, etc. are still having sex with their age groups and giving birth and are into prostitution, teenage pregnancies, child abuses, gangs, etc. and some of them disrespecting the adults.
A 9 year old girl can reach her puberty back then and even today. The physical fit and psychology for marriage is puberty and it is in scriptures. At puberty the girl starts to feel the urge for sex, and that is why the Jews and some religious and non religious cultures marry their girls early because if she does not get someone to marry her, she will have the sex outside marriage any way.
If a 9 year old girl reaches her puberty back then and is ready for marriage and no law as it always been why blame a particular persons when every one is marrying young women?
There is a law for gay people to marry now in western societies. Do you blame God or those who will not allow that in the past?
The gay law just like the age limit says gays should marry. Do you blame God for not putting it in the Bible? and why gay are not marrying in the past?
If you cannot blame why ancient societies are not tolerating gay marriage in the past because modern law has set its standards then it will not be wise for you to blame marriage of puberty girls in the past because the modern law has set its standards.
A 9 YEAR OLD GIRL CAN REACH HER PUBERTY AND PERIOD AND FULL STOP.
Thanks.
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Trey says “You have supported the abuse of children – no one is fooled by your faux shock.”
Trey where is your “supreme morality” grounded? It’s certainly not the Christian tradition nor the Bible.
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Burhanuddin1
It is grounded in the scientifically derived knowledge that when 9 year old girls are made to have sex they suffer immense pain, psychological damage, and long-term physical complications.
Your “morality” is based on the fact that your “prophet did it” so it must be okay. Aisha probably suffered immense pain from being made to have sex when she was 9.
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Hey, watch it. Stop making false insinuations about my morality.
In my view you are another missionary hypocrite troll playing the predictable “your prophet is despicable and my God is Love” game. Not impressed.
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Good to hear that you condemn grown men who have sex with 9 year olds. Congrats.
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Trey
September 16, 2016 • 4:40 pm
Burhanuddin1
It is grounded in the scientifically derived knowledge that when 9 year old girls are made to have sex they suffer immense pain, psychological damage, and long-term physical complications.
Your “morality” is based on the fact that your “prophet did it” so it must be okay. Aisha probably suffered immense pain from being made to have sex when she was 9.
I say;
No. That is a lie. 9 year olds, 10 year olds, 11, 12,13 etc. are allowed in modern day law to have sex with their age groups and there is nothing wrong about that according to science or modern standards.
God, the Bible, the Quran or the Jewish law never said marrying a 9 year old is a sin. All scriptures said a woman who reaches puberty can marry.
At puberty, the woman is matured for sex, child birth, psychologically fit etc. that is why those whose age are limited for marriage now a days still are having sex with their age groups and some end up in teenage pregnancies, child abuse by men of God, prostitution, gang, disrespect etc.
The difference is that 9 year old today can be allowed to have sex with 9 year old but would not be allowed to Marry.
The ancient world will say, if she is at puberty and knows sex, then it is time that she is physically and psychological fit to marry and have sex instead of having sex outside marriage.
God Almighty knows His creation very well that is why He left the marriage to be fit at puberty instead of Age. The under age girls are more than fit today to have sex and give birth without any complication and it leads them to fornication, child abuse, prostitution, teenage pregnancies etc. They are more sexually active than older people so scientifically and morally they need marriage to a good person, instead of this social vices.
Anthropology, the study of man rather proves that there are changes to human development as time goes.
Trey, the age limit or under age now, are still having sex and giving birth to bouncing babies without any complications, so you scientific knowledge is false and inaccurate.
If an underage girl can have sex and give birth to a child or enter into prostitution now a days it is scientifically wrong to say the age limit or under age girl who is at puberty is not scientifically or morally fit to marry.
Marry is better than fornication and prostitution.
Again, you are totally wrong to believe it is our prophet who marry a young woman at his time. All the Jews, Christians and Pagans at his time do marry young women at his time and they never said he was wrong on that but Prophet Mohammed elevated the marriage of women to puberty. You cannot marry a child but any one who reaches puberty has become adult and is fit and matured to do whatever he wants.
In Islam a child is not charged for sin until he reaches puberty and having knowledge to know right and wrong and it means maturity.
Thank
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Trey
September 16, 2016 • 5:00 pm
Good to hear that you condemn grown men who have sex with 9 year olds. Congrats.
I say;
A child who is at puberty and having sex with the age group is better morally marry to anyone who can take care of her than to continue sinning.
If anyone is matured to have sex and give birth i.e. at puberty, then the person is matured and scientifically and morally fit to marry than prostitution, child abuse by men of God, child porn, teenage pregnancies etc.
A mature woman at puberty who can have sex can take it from either young or grown ups. Some young have big ******* than older men so any scientific knowledge that says a matured woman at puberty is damaged by older men rather than younger is a false scientific knowledge.
Some women want a big ******** rather than small, so your scientific knowledge with regards to sex is wrong Mr. Trey.
Your God Jesus Christ obviously impregnated young woman Marry at 12 and gave birth to himself and it is scientifically impossible for God to unite with man and give birth to hybrid God-Man.
Thanks.
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[quote]No. That is a lie. 9 year olds, 10 year olds, 11, 12,13 etc. are allowed in modern day law to have sex with their age groups and there is nothing wrong about that according to science or modern standards.[/quote]
I am not aware of any modern laws which permit marriages at such young ages, beyond arranged marriages where the woman (or girl) is denied any choice.
[quote]At puberty, the woman is matured for sex, child birth, psychologically fit etc. that is why those whose age are limited for marriage now a days still are having sex with their age groups and some end up in teenage pregnancies, child abuse by men of God, prostitution, gang, disrespect etc.
[/quote]
But puberty doesn’t bring psychological maturity. This is quite evident in the behaviour of adolescents. They lack the emotional and psychological capacity to fully understand the decisions they are making, which is why laws (such as age of consent) exist. These laws help us define what constitutes child abuse – without such laws, we would have people using any arbitary measurement they wanted.
[quote]The ancient world will say, if she is at puberty and knows sex, then it is time that she is physically and psychological fit to marry and have sex instead of having sex outside marriage/[/quote]
Just because the ancient world said it, doesn’t mean it’s correct.
[QUOTE]Trey, the age limit or under age now, are still having sex and giving birth to bouncing babies without any complications, so you scientific knowledge is false and inaccurate.[/QUOTE]
There is a greater risk to underage girls of complications. Just because they can give birth, it is not a certainty that it will be safe, and even if it is, it is not a guarantee by any means of psychological readiness for motherhood, whether ‘married’ or not.
[quote]If an underage girl can have sex and give birth to a child or enter into prostitution now a days it is scientifically wrong to say the age limit or under age girl who is at puberty is not scientifically or morally fit to marry.[/quote]
Underage sex and pregnancy isn’t morally right, so is it morally right for them to marry when underage? Children who have sex (and they are children) are not emotionally equipped for what it can mean and lead to. They are certainly not equipped for marriage to older men who will be more capable of manipulating them. This is why consent laws exist.
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Yet puberty, regardless of what tradition tells us, does not equate to psychological readiness. This is the reason why age of consent is important. It may be a ‘Western’ idea but it’s not a bad one, by any means. There are many reasons why a child of nine (or 12 for that matter) is still a child, emotionally at the very least, and not ready for marriage, much less sex. It is not righteous, in the case of either Islam or Christianity, to condone marriages to children, irrespective of what might have been considered acceptable back then. It is not something we would endorse now, and we have a much better understanding of the damage it can do to a child.
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darthtimon
Well, in Islam there is the age of consent which is puberty. Ayisha’s parents offered her to the prophet and they asked her consent before the marriage. If the parents deem their daughter is child and not fit for marriage, they would not have allowed the marriage. If it is not the norm of the day, the Jews and the Christians would have found problem about the marriage.
He is not the only one marrying younger women and he is not pedophile because all his wives are older and one is older than him many years.
9 year old at that time at puberty is ok. and that is why there where no any scriptural rejection or any law preventing that at that time until recent. So if a 9 year old for you today does not fit for marriage, 9 year old at that time is fit for marriage and there was no history to suggest the marriages at those times has troubled young girls.
On the contrary, the age limit today, has prevented young women who are matured and at puberty to marry responsible men but to keep having boy friends at their age and sinning every day with sex, fornication, prostitution, child sex, pornography etc.
To me, they better marry a responsible person that this teenage pregnancy, school dropout etc. with the excuse that they are not psychologically fit to marry but having sex here and there. God did not put any age limit because God knows a child is not attractive if he is not at puberty with tantalizing parts, so God made the age open.
If 9 has been shifted not marry today, that is fine but it is not wise to accuse people of the past when there was no data to show children have suffered under marriages. Now, there are child porno, child abuse by men of God, teenage pregnancies, school dropouts, gangs, disrespect among teenagers etc.
You said;
darthtimon
September 16, 2016 • 9:21 pm
Yet puberty, regardless of what tradition tells us, does not equate to psychological readiness. This is the reason why age of consent is important. It may be a ‘Western’ idea but it’s not a bad one, by any means. There are many reasons why a child of nine (or 12 for that matter) is still a child, emotionally at the very least, and not ready for marriage, much less sex. It is not righteous, in the case of either Islam or Christianity, to condone marriages to children, irrespective of what might have been considered acceptable back then. It is not something we would endorse now, and we have a much better understanding of the damage it can do to a child
I say;
Exactly, in olden days it is acceptable and there was no record of younger marriages then, that has caused any harm to women and they were able to produce another generation. The age limit today has a record of failure. Child porn, prostitution, fornication, much more sex everyday among young girls because they are sexually active than older people,
God intentionally left open the age and stressed on puberty. If a 9 year old is not ready and matured today, she is ready and matured at Jesus or Mohammeds time that is why Jews marry early.
If things have changed and the modern day has raised its standards, I will be obliged to accept it but not to hold the people of that past with any wrong doing. Future generations can raise the age limit or lower the age limit according to the situations that time.
Should they accuse the western laws that did not follow their standards? No.
Modern laws are not always right. Look about gay marriage and nudity in beauty Pageants and sports and it is all about sex, sex, sex and destroying the youth.
I support raising the age limit but it must include not having sex with the age groups as well because of exposure to sex now a days. In the past no porn sites, nude beauty pageants, nude sports etc. so they can control their children into proper marriages.
Miss universe started with no bikini. Now there must be bikini.
Thanks.
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The contest is in evolution….one day …no bikini!
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70-year-old King David’s Marriage To 12 Year Old Abishag – Bible
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/17/king-davids-marriage-to-12-year-old-abishag-bible/
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LOL
You guys are getting desperate.
1 Now king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he gat no heat.
2 Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat.
3 So they sought for a fair damsel throughout all the coasts of Israel, and found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king.
4 And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him: but the king knew her not.
The king knew her not – he did not have sex with her. Mohammed, on the other hand, hand sex with a 9 year old.
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Sorry did I hurt your feelings?? 😉
You forget to mention that Moses and soldiers married/raped PRE-PUBESCENT girls in the Bible:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/07/a-detailed-historical-examination-of-numbers-3118/
Furthermore, he knew her not according to Christian scholars, they say, his THING was not getting up, not that he didnt want to, but due to his age. You forgot to tell the viewers that the 12 year old was to LIE IN BED WITH DAVID in his BOSSOM, touching and KISSING him as a WIFE OR CONCUBINE as your own Christian scholars have clarified.
So your argument on verse 4 means nothing when the marriage was blessed by David, YHWH. We will add more commentaries to the article later for verse 4, showing that his THING was not working that is why verse 4 says what it says. Bear in mind David MARRIED her and could use her to do anything he wants since he was King…
Tell me why did YHWH, Jesus not speak out against David marrying a 12-year-old pre-pubescent Abishag??
Why did Jesus your god of the Old Testament stop Moses and his soldiers from marrying/raping pre-pubesent girls???
Ouch 😉 :p
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No, you haven’t hurt my feelings. Were you trying to?
Your points are stupid – the text clearly says he did not know her (i.e. he did not have sex with her) and that the decision to marry her to him was taken by others.
And mohammed still had sex with a 9 year old.
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Marriage only happens when BOTH parties agree. You seem to imply as if King David a ruler was forced to marry the girl. Now that is a very desperate interpretation. 😉
What next, the girl was placed in David’s BOSSOM forcefully?
He did not have sex because his thing would not get up. He was old. Why do you think he married her? Why do you think she was placed in David’s BOSSOM?
We will add more commentaries later specifically on verse 4 :p
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You’re stupid.
Mohammed married a 6 year old and had sex with with her when she was 9 all for his own sick gratification. David was married to virgin in his old age and near death merely to give him comfort and warmth. There was no sex involved. The text even says that she was chosen to give him warmth, not satisfy a sick lust as aisha was chosen to satisfy mohammed’s sick lust.
DOn’t you think it is sick to have sex with a 9 year old?
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Trey
how many days is it now you have been banging on about sex with 6 and 9 years olds?
It’s looks like you have some deep psychological pleasure returning to this thought over and over again.
Question: do you dream about 6 year old girls at night?
Just asking..
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I keep returning to it because you and your sick muslim readers keep trying to defend mohammed’s sexual exploitation of a 9 year old. My only problem here is that you guys keep trying to justify it – you even said that you have no problem with a grown man marrying a 9 year old and having sex with her.
And you are claiming that I am the one with the problem?
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I sense you have a secret sexual fetish for 6 year old girls. It explains your compulsive references to this activity.
Have you considered getting help?
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Dude, you are the pervert who says it’s okay for a grown man to have sex with a 9 year old.
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Trey
The current laws allow for 9 year old to have sex but it disallows 9 year old to marry. In the olden days it is justifying for 9 year old who reaches puberty to marry rather than have sex outside marriage and that is why the Jews marry early and Jesus and David, Abraham married younger wives.
You are not wise to insist on holding people responsible for current laws just like how you insist to believe the opposite of shema which clearly state God is one.
You insist and will die with the opposite of shema that it means God is one is multiple like Mormons and idol worship of Haile Selaissie, Hindu Sai B aba, voodoo snakes. You keep asking questions to justify one means multiple. What a sick brain and die hard Trinitarian?
Here we have proved that the olden laws does not disallow 9 year old who is at puberty from marriage but God law is against sex outside marriage.
You keep sticking to modern laws that allow 9 year old to come on CNN to say he feels gay and has gay sex lessons at school and is free to have gay sex with his age group and keep insulting people of the old who follow the scriptures and marry younger women. Because you think that is what you have against Islam. People of the past including Christians have nothing against Mohammed marriage to Ayisha except lunatic like you.
Thanks.
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Trey, here we have addressed you fallacious claim on “knew her not”. Part 2 on David’s 12-year-old wife Abishag:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/21/exploring-1-kings-14-knew-her-not-king-davids-12-year-old-bride/
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Discover the truth
I called you stupid earlier in this post and I apologize – you are actually really, really stupid.
So you agree with me that the David did not have sex with Abishag?
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the manners of a goat.
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Better a goat than a child abuser.
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I agree. And given your Freudian obsession with children and sex, I have my doubts about you..
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Obsession with children and sex? Sounds like mohammed.
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I was thinking it sounds just like you
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Trey
Jews marry early and even today the 9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17………………. are allowed to have sex with their age groups and by law having sex with their age groups is permitted.
In the olden days no age limit was set and God did not specify any age limit in the Bible because younger girls who are not at puberty and ready for adult life are not attracted to sane men.
In most parts of Africa, Asia, Latin America etc. and some parts of the world you will see younger girls bathing naked outside and younger boys too and they are not attracted to any sane human being.
But when the girl starts to reach puberty and a state/stage with tantalizing parts, she herself will start hiding herself and will not bath outside again. At that state/stage she begins to reach adulthood and can marry and give birth to child according to the Bible and Quran and no age limit but that state/stage.
That tantalizing parts will start to let her feel for sex and attracted to men. God in His wisdom did not specify any age limit but left it open for the girl and a sincere man who want to marry but not sex outside marriage.
Very recent in the late 1900’s the west came up with laws of age limits that are not universal. A 15 year old will be considered as under age in some countries but over age in some countries. Some states and countries have lesser ages like 13, 14,15, 16…………..
In the olden days and in the Biblical stories you clearly see that the girls that are married are very young and you keep repeating “Mohammed marry 9 year old” because the modern day has set age limit which is absent in the past and no record the people at that time has any law or scripture prohibiting such marriage. No one blamed the prophet for such marriage even though the Jews and Christians had blamed the prophet for other things like denying their Gods.
If Abubakar who offered his daughter to the prophet knows at that time the age of his daughter was not suitable for marriage he would not have offered her to the prophet for marriage.
It is not wise to stop commenting on other topics and keep judging some one with modern day laws which is absent at his time.
It is like blaming Moses for not allowing gay marriage because today’s law says it is morally, spiritually and medically right for man to marry man and for girl to marry girl.
US, Canada, UK, Australia and most countries have started teaching these young 9, 10,11,12,13,14,15,16,……….. sex about gays. Yes, teaching those they considered children and are not fit for marriage about gay sex. How do you teach someone who you considered not fit to marry sex about gays.
Anderson Cooper of CNN once brought under age boy on CNN and that boy said he is gay and he feels gay. Those that are considered children to marry are now considered gay to come on CNN and say they are gay and Trey is happy about that, but just to be stressing on someone’s marriage as bad based on a standard that allow children to come out public as gays.
Trey is here to fight Islam and inshaAllah we are here to tell the truth even against Muslims whom we think are not right.
Trey, you better accuse Jesus for not allowing gay marriage in the Battle and not allowing a child to come out as gay and not teaching children gay sex in the Bible.
The Christians in US, Canada and some parts are fighting for the gay sex education in schools to their children to be annulled. Some medical practitioners says it is medically good for the children to have gay sex education.
Those are the same medical practitioners who brought excuses that younger women are not fit for sex and marriage but these same young women are still allow to have sex with their age group and not marry so that there is teenage pregnancies, prostitution, rape, child abuse, drugs and more social vices.
Trey, as evil as he is will not see the failure of these western laws but keep stressing on judging people of the past with the modern day law that is not good to score a religious point.
Thanks.
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Trey
You said;
And mohammed still had sex with a 9 year old.
I say;
The current laws is not against a 9 year old having sex but it is against 9 year old marrying. A 9 year old can have sex with a 9 year old and there is no law against that. So both King David and Prophet Mohammed and Jesus and Moses etc. would be put to jail today for marrying or allowing under ager marriage.
A 9 year old gay student can have sex i.e. kissing another gay student in public and no one will arrest him or her. A 9 year old is taught how to kiss, masturbate, etc. in some US and Canadians schools and so Trey, your modern day laws will put Jesus Moses, Mohamed, David, Abraham and all prophets of God including God Himself into jail.
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Trey
September 18, 2016 • 8:05 pm
You’re stupid.
Mohammed married a 6 year old and had sex with with her when she was 9 all for his own sick gratification. David was married to virgin in his old age and near death merely to give him comfort and warmth. There was no sex involved. The text even says that she was chosen to give him warmth, not satisfy a sick lust as aisha was chosen to satisfy mohammed’s sick lust.
DOn’t you think it is sick to have sex with a 9 year old?
I say;
Don’t you understand marry? Why did King David married a young woman? To help him? You “dandyhead”. Then he should not have married her instead take her as house help which is common those days and Abraham had house help and ended up having sex with her outside marriage and the child became illegitimate.
Jesus Christ commanding his Prophet Abraham to rape his slave girl and produced illegitimate child and Jesus as God to disallow that child his covenant is a very big blunder that would have landed Jesus Christ in jail today.
David could have hired a male to help him instead of marrying a young woman. David could have hired an older woman to help him instead of marrying a young girl.
There is proof upon proof in the Bible for marrying younger women, including rape, incest and other things but you keep stressing on a marriage that no one had a problem with at that time of the prophets.
Will you allow your 9 year old to have gay sex lessons now? That is what is happening in some schools now.
Is unwise to use this modern laws against someone in the past. I remembered you justified porn sports and strip club dress against covering the tantalizing parts or women. Such a fellow like you, who is intoxicated with modern nudity and now you are against decent marriage.
Thanks.
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