Why is it that Jesus constantly refers to the Father as God but the Father never does this with regards to Jesus? Why is it that the Torah, Ketuvim and Nevi’im identify only the Father as God but never Jesus? Why is it that Jesus prays to the Father but never is the Father seen praying to Jesus? Why is that Jesus said the following :
Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, MY GLORY IS WORTHLESS. The one who glorifies me is my Father, about whom you people say, ‘HE IS OUR GOD.’ John 8:54
In John 8: 54 Jesus clearly establishes that his self-verification is meaningless, ONLY THE FATHER’S AUTHORIZATION MATTERS! This clearly means Jesus is NOT CO-EQUAL, CO-ETERNAL WITH THE FATHER AND OF THE SAME Ousia (substance). Not only that, if you look at the following:
“But these things are eternal life: ‘They shall know you (the Father), for YOU ALONE ARE TRULY GOD and Yeshua The Messiah whom you have sent.’ “ John 17: 3
So John 8: 54 proves that the Jews worshiped the Father as God, as verified by Jesus–the God of Israel.He was only 1 God as Deu 6: 4 and Isaiah 44: 6 prove. So the Father is God and there is only 1 God. It is not very complicated. And Jesus worshiped the 1 God of Israel, the Father alone in Mark 12: 29. So this means…? That the Father is ”ALONE TRULY GOD” John 17: 3. It fits so well. There is no confusion, whatsoever. Unless people want to make it contradictory, complex and nonsensical as well as Polytheistic. Then they will be responsible for their choices.
Funny how Jesus never clarified the Trinity or said : ”I AM YAHWEH” or that the Father is seen to be bowing down to Jesus, but Jesus does bow down and worship the One God! Wow.
I feel kind of honoured that you have showed up to refute one of my posts!
I’m disappointed that you haven’t really brought anything new to the table – just the same old cherry-picking of NT verses to make arguments that fall apart when you read the full context.
All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. …Jesus (speaking to god), ca. 30-33 AD.
That alone destroys the tsunami of text that you wasted your time composing. All you had to do was read a little further in John 17.
As I said, when jesus says that he “is the way, the truth and the light” and that “no one comes to the father except through me” he is clearly preaching a christ centric message.
“Funny how Jesus never clarified the Trinity or said : ”I AM YAHWEH” or that the Father is seen to be bowing down to Jesus, but Jesus does bow down and worship the One God! Wow.”
Jesus clearly identified himself as divine, and the Holy Spirit as divine in addition to the father’s status as god. That aside, the biggest problem with this tired muslim argument is that jesus did not come to be worshiped but to serve – that is as basic to christian theology as one can get. You have to comprehend this concept to understand jesus’ ministry.
I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.
‘I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.’
This harmonises nicely with my statement: Jesus’ preaching was theocentric – not christocentric.
God would never say that He can do nothing on His own.
God would never say He was sent by someone (or something) else.
God would never say He judges as God tells Him.
God would never say that He is a just judge because He carries out some one else’s will.
If the one God of the universe, Creator of the heavens and the earth, wanted to convey to His people that He alone was God and there was no other who shared this unique distinction with Him, what words would He use so that there would be no possibility for error? What phrase could He have selected so that there would be no chance of misunderstanding? If you or I wanted to describe the unique oneness of God in a way that could not be misinterpreted, how would we express this? Would we not have used the words that Moses reported God to have said in Deuteronomy 32:39,
“See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides Me . . .”
As a result of this and many other inspiring affirmations throughout the Jewish Scriptures, (Click here for a list of texts.) faithful Jews to this day will only worship the One life-giving God of Israel – alone.
No prophet in Tanach ever remained silent on this foundational teaching. As if with one voice, they pleaded with their often-wayward nation never to compromise their faith for anything other than the unwavering monotheism that they tirelessly preached. Over and over again, the Hebrew Bible declared with deliberate clarity in its most celebrated creeds that the Almighty alone is God, and there is no other. Nothing could ever be “screened” or “veiled” because the very survival of the Jewish people depended on it. The Torah intimately connects the faith in one indivisible God with the national experience of the Jewish people throughout their long history. Dreadful suffering was the consequence for any defection from the uncompromising monotheism that the Almighty demanded of His people.
Throughout the Jewish Scriptures, God never “screened or veiled his divine nature.” In fact, Isaiah unequivocally proclaimed that the Almighty did not reveal Himself in darkness or in a hidden or veiled fashion. The prophet, speaking in the Almighty’s name, declares that,
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob’s descendants, “Seek Me in vain.” I, the Lord, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
(Isaiah 45:19)
Although the belief in the unity of God is taught and declared on virtually every page of the Jewish Scriptures, the doctrine of the Trinity is never mentioned anywhere throughout the entire corpus of the Hebrew Bible. Moreover, this doctrine is not to be found anywhere in the New Testament either because primitive Christianity, in its earliest stages, was still monotheistic. The authors of the New Testament were completely unaware that the Church they had fashioned would eventually embrace a pagan deification of a triune deity. Although the worship of a three-part godhead was well known and fervently venerated throughout the Roman Empire and beyond in religious systems such as Hinduism and Mithraism, it was quite distant from the Judaism from which Christianity emerged. However, when the Greek and Roman mind began to dominate the Church, it created a theological disaster from which Christendom has never recovered. By the end of the fourth century, the doctrine of the Trinity was firmly in place as a central tenet of the Church, and strict monotheism was formally rejected by Vatican councils in Nicea and Constantinople.1
When Christendom adopted a triune godhead from neighboring triune religious systems, it spawned a serious conundrum for post-Nicene Christian apologists. How would they harmonize this new veneration of Jesus as a being who is of the same substance as the Father with a New Testament that portrays Jesus as a separate entity, subordinate to the Father, and created by God? How would they now integrate the teaching of the Trinity with a New Testament that recognized the Father alone as God? In essence, how would Christian apologists merge a first century Christian Bible, which was monotheistic, with a fourth century Church which was not?
This task was particularly difficult because throughout the Gospels and Paul’s letters Jesus never claims to be God. On the contrary, the New Testament makes it clear that he is not God, but rather an agent of God, entirely subordinate to the Father. For example, in John 14:28, the author of the fourth Gospel has Jesus declare,
“I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I.”
The example you mentioned illustrates this particularly well. In the Book of Mark, Jesus is asked by four of his disciples when the Tribulation period will occur. Jesus responds,
But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the son, but the Father
(Mark 13:32)
The problems this verse creates for Trinitarians are staggering. If Jesus were coequal with the Father, how could the Father have information that Jesus lacked? That is to say, if Jesus were God manifested in the flesh, as missionaries contend, how can God not know something? If somehow the second Person of the godhead didn’t know, how did the first Person find out? Moreover, if, as some Trinitarians persist, the son was limited by his human nature, why didn’t the Holy Spirit know?
Christians cannot simply explain away this verse by insisting that it was Jesus’ human or humble nature that did not know. This is because the doctrine of the Trinity does not hold that Jesus was half God and half man. Rather, Jesus was one hundred percent God and one hundred percent man. His substance as God was not diminished because of his human nature. As the ecclesiastical Athanasian Creed2 explicitly states:
The divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal. What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
Few statements defining the nature of the triune godhead have so plainly spelled out the nature of the doctrine of the Trinity as does this durable fourth century creed.
Some missionaries will argue, as you point out, that Jesus’ statement in John 10:30, “I and my Father are one,” demonstrates that Jesus considered himself God. The Greek word ἐν (hen), meaning “one,” however, does not imply being a part of the same substance. We see this clearly in John 17:11 and 17:21-22 where Jesus prays to God that the disciples may be one (ἐν) as are Jesus and God. Clearly, Jesus is requesting that the disciples be of one unified purpose, not of the same substance or part of the Trinity.
Moreover, John 10:30-34 is particularly revealing. The fourth Gospel describes how when the Jews heard Jesus proclaim, “I and my Father are one,” they immediately wanted to stone him. When Jesus asks them why they wanted to kill him, the Jews responded because “you claim to be God.” Upon hearing this, Jesus asked, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?” This response is one of the most important statements in the Book of John, and should at least give Trinitarians pause.
The verse is found in Psalm 82:6 where the Bible refers to judges who teach God’s divine law as gods. This title was bestowed on them because they were teachers of the Almighty’s divine Law and sacred Oracles, not because they were actually God in any way. This usage is quite common in the Jewish Scriptures. For example, in Exodus 7:1 Moses is called a god because he was God’s representative to Pharaoh. In essence, Jesus’ reply is inconsistent the proposal that missionaries are seeking to advance. Jesus, as depicted by John, is explaining that his identification with God is comparable to that of a Jewish judge.
The fact remains that no author in the New Testament ever advanced the doctrine of the Trinity. Many years passed from the time the last Gospel was published for the Church to promote this alien creed.
There are numerous places in the OT where god speaks of himself in pluralistic terms….
“Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens.” Genesis 19:24
“I (God) overthrew some of you, as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,” AMos 4:11
“Behold, I (God) am stirring up the Medes against them, ……And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them.” Is 13:17/19
If the trinity is polytheism, then the OT is polytheistic.
Did the Authors of the New Testament Believe in the Doctrine of the Trinity?
Matthew 3:17
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
What is the value of God indicating his pleasure in Jesus, if Jesus was himself? And what did Jesus supposedly achieve here, if he was God and it was impossible for him to sin, or do wrong? Was God taking pleasure in himself?
Matthew 20:20-23
The mother of the sons of Zebedee… said to him 21[Jesus][/Jesus], “Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.” 22 But Jesus answered and said…, 23“You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
If Jesus was fully God, why could only the Father, and not Jesus, grant that the two sons of Zebedee sit at the right and left of Jesus?
Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he [Jesus][/Jesus] fell on his face to the ground and prayed, saying, “O my Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.
If the Father and Jesus were of the same substance, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will, out of necessity, would have been that of the Father’s.
Matthew 26:53
Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
If Jesus was God, why would he need to request from God legions of angels? Is there anything God lacks that He must request from another?
Mark 10:17-20
If, as Trinitarians insist, Jesus was God, why did Jesus rebuke the man for addressing him as “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life”? 18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.” 19“You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder…’” 20And he said to him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.”
If, as Trinitarians insist, Jesus was God, why did Jesus rebuke the man for addressing him as “Good Teacher”? (Jesus believed th at the title “good” was appropriate for God alone, who he considered the only standard of goodness).
Interestingly, once the man was corrected, thereafter he only referred to Jesus as “Teacher.”
Mark 13:32
“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the son, but the Father.”
If Jesus was coequal with the Father, how could the Father have information that Jesus lacked? Moreover, if, as some Trinitarians suggest, the son was limited by his human nature, why didn’t the Holy Spirit know?
John 5:37
“And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen.”
Yet Jesus said, “The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.” (John 13:16) Jesus said on numerous occasions that, “the Father… hath sent me.” (John 5:37,6:37) The Holy Ghost was also sent by the Father (John 14:26) and Jesus (John 16:7), thus making Jesus subordinate to the Father and the Holy Ghost inferior to both the Father and Jesus.
Moreover, God is by nature invisible and never seen, Jesus was of course seen. John 1:18, I John 4:12, I Tim. 6:16
John 8:17-18
“In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”
In John 8:17-18, Jesus quotes from the Law the necessity that evidence, to be valid, must be agreed upon by two witnesses. Jesus states that the two witnesses are himself and God. Two, not one. If Jesus was God, there was only one witness, and if Jesus says there are two, then he and God are not one.
John 10:30
“I, and my Father are one.” 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 32″We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God. ” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods?’” (see Psalm 82:6)
Trinitarians maintain that Jesus’ statement, “l and my Father are one,” demonstrates that Jesus was declaring himself to be God. The Greek word ἕν (one), however, does not imply being a part of the same substance. This is clearly illustrated in John 17:11 and 17:21-22, where in these passages Jesus prays to God that the disciples may be one (ἕν) as Jesus and God are.
Jesus is obviously requesting that the disciples be of one unified purpose, not of the same substance or part of the Trinity.
Moreover, John 10:30-34 is particularly revealing. The fourth Gospel claims that when the Jews heard Jesus proclaim, “I and my Father are one,” they immediately wanted to stone him to death. When Jesus asked why they wanted to kill him, the Jews responded because “you claim to be God.” Upon hearing this Jesus asked, “ls it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?”
This response gives us Insight into the mind of the author of the Book of John, and should be instructive to Trlnltarians.
The verse quoted by Jesus is found in Psalm 82:6 where the Bible refers to judges who teach God’s divine Law as gods.
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’” (Psalm 82:6)
Moreover, the Torah identities Judges as gods (אֱלֹהִים) as well,
Then his master shall bring him to the judges הָאֱלֹהִים… for any kind of lost thing which 8 another claims to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges (אֱלֹהִים); and whoever the judges (אֱלֹהִים) condemn shall pay double to his neighbor. (Exodus 21 :6, 22:8)
This title was bestowed on Jewish judges because they are agents of the Almighty’s divine law, not because they were actually God in any way. The Jewish Scriptures frequently refers to agents of God as a god.
For example, in Exodus 7:1 Moses is called a “god” because he was God’s representative to Pharaoh.
The New Testament never claims that Jesus is God, the Creator of the universe, but rather His subordinate representative.
John 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
If God and Jesus are “one in essence,” as the Trinity doctrine says, how could Jesus’ accord, or will, be different from that of his Father? How can Jesus’ privilege not be the same as God? Moreover, if Jesus was the same as God, why would God have to send or command God to do anything?
John 14:28
“…I [Jesus][/Jesus] go unto the Father, for my father is greater than I.”
This verse speaks for itself.
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom thou hast sent.
Here Jesus insists that the Father is the “only true God.” The Greek word used here for “only” is monos, which is meant to exclude all others. Clearly, the Father cannot be “the only true God” if there are two others who are God to the same degree as he is.
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her [Mary][/Mary], “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
If Jesus was God, why would he tell Mary that he considered her Father as his Father, and her God as his God? In Revelations 3:12, after the crucifixion, we continue to see Jesus calling the Father “my God.” But never in the Christian Bible is the Father reported to refer to Jesus as “my God,” nor does either the Father or Jesus refer to the Holy Spirit as “my God.”
Did Paul Believe In Doctrine of the Trinity?
I Corinthians 8:4
…and that is none other God but one. 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there may be many gods, and many lords,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Paul insists that only the Father is declared to be the one and only God. In Ephesians 1:17 Paul is still unaware of the Trinity when he says, “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
I Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
This verse does not depict Jesus as coequal with God. On the contrary, God is of superior rank to Jesus. Moreover, this statement reveals that the New Testament did not consider Jesus to be equal with God even after the ascension. Paul wrote these words around 55 C.E. — long after the crucifixion.
I Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Here Paul unambiguously insists that Jesus was subordinate to God as His “subject.” Throughout the New Testament it is claimed that God bestowed authority upon Jesus – never the other way around.
I Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…
As mentioned above, this concept is restated many times throughout the New Testament: the Father is Jesus’ God — never the other way around (see also Matt. 4:7, 27:46; Rom. 15:6, II Cor. 1:3, I Pet. 1:3; Rev. 1:6, 3:12 (four times).
Colossians 1:15
He [Jesus][/Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
If the earliest Christians believed in the Trinity, why doesn’t the New Testament ever refer to the Father or the Holy Spirit as the “firstborn of all creation?” Understandably, the New Testament would never refer to the Father as “firstborn” because early Christianity considered the Father alone eternal.
I Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
The fact that Paul clearly distinguishes between God and Jesus places considerable strain on Trinitarianism.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Consider how the temptation of Jesus is portrayed throughout the Gospels. The New Testament emphatically states “Jesus was tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.” But the Church’s claim that Jesus is God creates insurmountable contradictions: Temptation without the possibility of falling to sin is meaningless. If Jesus is God, it was impossible for him to sin, and it makes no sense to say he was tempted.
Moreover, James 1:13 states that God cannot be tempted!
Hebrews 5:7
[Jesus][/Jesus] offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.
Why would God need to beg and cry to God to save him from death? Moreover, if the author of Hebrews considered Jesus God, why does Hebrews 5:8 insist that Jesus learned obedience from suffering? Is there anything God does not know and must learn through experience?
Rabbi, You don’t know me but when I was sixteen I heard your tape by mistake and what followed was nearly a decade of serious bible reading… (And the qoran and NT) You changed my life probably more than anyone else… I can’t thank you enough… Regards from Jerusalem
You see. Muslims likes you and Muslims do not hate the Jews. It is these evangelical Christians who tried to divide us. I am happy you are resisting that and trying to tell the truth and make truth your cardinal principles.
We have been reading your articles and videos. We hope you accept Paul Williams invitation to write here. One thing about this blog though, is that there are agreement and disagreement but in amicable and friendly manner.
Trey has run away. He can stand the truth of Islam and Muslims like you. Trey believes Yahweh is God and Yahweh is Jesus and God can do nothing on his own?
If Trey does not repent on his believe that God can do nothing on his own, hell fire is waiting for Trey. Paul W. I and you and any God fearing believe it is not true for God to say He can do nothing on his own but Trey believed that.
In all these, Trey’s brain is telling him that him believing God can do nothing on his own is rational than we who believed it is irrational.
If a mad man does not know he is mad then it is a serious madness and difficult to treat but If a mad man know he is sick and there is some thing wrong or irrational about him, his treatment is easy and he most of the time those mad people becomes well.
Trey does not believe it is irrational for God to say “I can do nothing on my own”.
Trey asks
Am I a mind reader?
I answer
Every Trinitarian is a mind reader. They read the mind of God and say God is God-Man, Tree Persons 1 God, Jesus, and the Jews believed Jesus was God and that is why they pick stones to throw at him etc.
How can someone pick stones and throw at someone if that Person is God? Trey knows this because he is a mind reader and reads the minds of God and Men i.e. Jews.
“But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”
Hebrews 1:8
Furious Stylez, I love the name haha. Boyz N The Hood.
But that part in Hebrews is quoting psalm 45, and in that verse in psalms, the King, presumably the messiah is spoken of as God’s representative as far as I know.
Singer is still wrong. He should argue his points one at a time instead of using the shotgun method to overwhelm his opponents. Is he a coward or something?
“Why is it that Jesus constantly refers to the Father as God but the Father never does this with regards to Jesus?”
Stupid argument #1
The relationship of man to God is from the Word to the Father because the Word has taken on flesh. It can’t be the other way round.
“Why is it that the Torah, Ketuvim and Nevi’im identify only the Father as God but never Jesus? Why is it that Jesus prays to the Father but never is the Father seen praying to Jesus?””
stupid argument #2
Begging the question. Of course the OT does not identify Jesus as God because the Word has not identified himself through the human nature of Jesus. The Father of the OT is all three persons of the NT. Not just the Father of the NT.
If so, wow! Have to say I agree with a lot of what he said.
My question is Rabbi, what are your opinions of Jesus Christ (or Jesus Ben Joseph, Jesus son of Mary)?
I know you don’t believe him to be the messiah but in light of what you’ve said, do you believe him to be a credible person speaking for God?
I know Maimonides once said that Jesus and Muhammad (or Christianity and Islam) were essentially tools that God was using to bring the whole world to believe in one God, in preparation for the messianic age, or something like that anyway. Would that mean that in your view as a Jew that there is credibility and truth behind these respective religions?
Why is it that Jesus constantly refers to the Father as God but the Father never does this with regards to Jesus? Why is it that the Torah, Ketuvim and Nevi’im identify only the Father as God but never Jesus?
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Just read the next verse! Father has never labeled Jesus as ( his God) .
Alos, you have to be aware of that book of Hebrew was wriiten by anonymous man.
I agree with you completely regarding Paul, Rabbi. However, Jesus peace be upon him was rather than clear about himself if you read the NT with a critical eye.
Jesus is the messiah with no doubt, Rabbi. ( It’d be anther topic I hope that we can discuss it in the future ) .
I respect your position Rabbi but I’d like to mention something.
In Deuteronomy 13:1-2 it says that even false prophets can perform miracles and their prophecies can come true. So regardless of whether you say Jesus’ prophecies did not come true it is not enough to say that he was a false prophet. He spoke in the name of the God of Abraham and continued to preach the same message that Jews were familiar with. Nothing Jesus said was out of the ordinary, except for the things that he said about himself such as being the messiah or son of man from Daniel. But the message was completely familiar for example, he said the Shema was the most important commandment and emphasised the importance of following the law but not making a burden out of it.
And I would argue that Jesus did have fulfilled or currently ongoing prophecies. For example Jesus said that the gospel would be preached throughout the whole world and this is evident to see in our times today. Despite the controversy behind the other end times prophecies you mentioned, at least Jesus also said that no one knows the the time or hour of the last day, only the Father.
In Acts 5:38 a Pharisee told a group of Jews to leave Jesus’ disciples alone because ” if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
If Christianity was purely of human origin then it would have died out in the 1st century or the centuries following rather than having a powerful influence throughout the world. This isn’t to say that church doctrines such as the trinity are perfect but I agree with whoever mentioned Maimonides above.
Thanks for your response Rabbi,
There are a number of responses to that passage post-CS Lewis but it will be too long to mention here. I can’t imagine any of them satisfying you anyway.
I don’t believe the Bible to be a perfect book, Hebrew Bible and NT alike but there are reasons I find in both to believe in it.
Rabbi I know you hold a respectable position and all but you are a human being who is prone to error like anyone else so I will point out a few things.
To post a Bart Ehrman video will do nothing for your cause. He is the same guy who holds opposing views to your belief of the Torah. To pick and choose what bits of Bart’s views you like is misleading.
You call Muslims your cousins and Christians your enemies and I guess that’s simply because of the similarities in monotheism and religious observance of the law. Yet it is the Christians who believe in the Hebrew Bible and do their best on this blog to defend your perfect Torah which Muslims call a corrupt and tainted book. I know you have problems with the trinity but don’t forget that not all Christians are Trinitarians.
You call Jesus a false prophet yet he is revered in Christianity and Islam as the messiah.
Jesus’ message was theocentric but he asks that even if you don’t believe in him believe in what he does (John 10:38-39) because it is God who sent him.
You seem to have some sort of bitterness towards Christians which I could also argue was predicted by Paul in Romans 11 whom you called false. I don’t know if that’s because of your past experiences or for how Christians treated Jews in the past but persecution of Jews was not sanctioned by the New Testament, don’t let the actions or beliefs of certain Christians give you a bad impression of the entire religion.
The writings of the church fathers aren’t scripture.
And believe me my feelings are not hurt.
If anything, based on what you’ve written, the one who is in pain is you.
Based on what I’ve read I don’t know if it is rabbi Singer, I can be a bit direct and crude on here but boy that is another level.
But… If it is the real Tovia Singer don’t be surprised. He is a human being after all and he is not perfect.
I wouldn’t be surprised since he is already such a strong opponent of Christian belief anyway, just look at his website. In one article he says that the Christian Bible portrays Jews in the worst possible colors which is far from true, the earliest followers of Jesus including himself and Paul were Jews after all. He even says the worlds oldest hatred is alive and well. Really? Aren’t Christians like the most Zion loving people you will find, many of whom believe Israel and Jews deserve their rightful place in the land which they currently occupy?
All of what I mentioned can be found in the article named “who was Jesus” on his outreach Judaism site.
When you become too consumed with something and view things in just one way you tend to become very radical and passionate about it. If his emotions and passions slipped out here, like I’ve said don’t be surprised. If it’s not the real rabbi then I’m sure it’s one of his passionate followers.
I’m guessing this is a response to Trey.
The thing is, apart from what you said about Paul I completely agree with you about what the Quran says about the Torah and also the gospel and many Christians here do too. Unfortunately the Muslims do not see it that way.
You say the Christian scholars are the main proponents of textual corruption of the Torah… Wow I have never come across that before. Seriously. Every Christian I know believes in the Torah. The so called Christian scholars who may say that the Torah has corruptions are the same who would also hold that view about the New Testament too, the word you are looking for is liberal scholars. There are also liberal Jewish scholars who say the same thing about their own texts and also liberal Muslims who would say the same about the Quran (although it is rare to find a liberal Muslim scholar come out and say that since they will no longer be considered Muslim and it’s dangerous too).
“But the Qur;an is purely Monotheistic whilst the Christian Faith is purely Polytheistic. ”
No the New Testament has nothing polytheistic about it. Even Paul says God is “the God and Father of Jesus Christ” and says that God is the head of Christ.
I’m sorry to say this but your credibility as a rabbi or scholar is limited when you inject too many emotional or biased opinions into your work. Your fanatical obsession and opposition to the Trinity blinds you from seeing useful things from a different perspective to the point where you even accuse Christian scholars of being the main proponents of textual corruption in the Torah. I don’t care how knowledgeable someone is, they lose much credibility in my sight when they act like that.
Mr or Miss Oops, I never stated that the Qur’an endorses the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Bible- it certainly does not, no matter how much Christians wish it so. The Qur’an does mention specific Books that are of Divine Origin according to the Islamic view. One of the Books mentioned is the Torah. But the Quran in Surah Baqarah verse 75 does mention something very interesting
Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?
This verse is alleging the deliberate distortion of the Torah. So there does seem to be a Qur’anic basis to the corruption of the scripture theory in an Islamic context.
I’m a man and stop using that name you imposter.
It seems you are a Muslim disguising yourself as a Jew, that way you can join in on criticising Christians without being seen as a bad Muslim by the rest of the members.
I don’t get your logic, you can pick the silliest name you want, just look at mine, yet you pick Tovia Singer.
Haven’t got time for this, bye
Impersonating someone is a big sin in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I guess in modern law as well. The person who used Rabbi Singers name has sinned and needs repentance. We all taught it is him. How can you sign somebody’s name?
Repent and asks for forgiveness. The prophet said the small sins who do not expect can land us in to trouble. May God forbid.
Blogging Theology 
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Please read the actual words of jesus before making these silly claims.
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Why is it that Jesus constantly refers to the Father as God but the Father never does this with regards to Jesus? Why is it that the Torah, Ketuvim and Nevi’im identify only the Father as God but never Jesus? Why is it that Jesus prays to the Father but never is the Father seen praying to Jesus? Why is that Jesus said the following :
Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, MY GLORY IS WORTHLESS. The one who glorifies me is my Father, about whom you people say, ‘HE IS OUR GOD.’ John 8:54
In John 8: 54 Jesus clearly establishes that his self-verification is meaningless, ONLY THE FATHER’S AUTHORIZATION MATTERS! This clearly means Jesus is NOT CO-EQUAL, CO-ETERNAL WITH THE FATHER AND OF THE SAME Ousia (substance). Not only that, if you look at the following:
“But these things are eternal life: ‘They shall know you (the Father), for YOU ALONE ARE TRULY GOD and Yeshua The Messiah whom you have sent.’ “ John 17: 3
So John 8: 54 proves that the Jews worshiped the Father as God, as verified by Jesus–the God of Israel.He was only 1 God as Deu 6: 4 and Isaiah 44: 6 prove. So the Father is God and there is only 1 God. It is not very complicated. And Jesus worshiped the 1 God of Israel, the Father alone in Mark 12: 29. So this means…? That the Father is ”ALONE TRULY GOD” John 17: 3. It fits so well. There is no confusion, whatsoever. Unless people want to make it contradictory, complex and nonsensical as well as Polytheistic. Then they will be responsible for their choices.
Funny how Jesus never clarified the Trinity or said : ”I AM YAHWEH” or that the Father is seen to be bowing down to Jesus, but Jesus does bow down and worship the One God! Wow.
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Holy cow. Rabbi is that you???
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I didn’t know cows were holy in Judaism 😉
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Tovia Singer
I feel kind of honoured that you have showed up to refute one of my posts!
I’m disappointed that you haven’t really brought anything new to the table – just the same old cherry-picking of NT verses to make arguments that fall apart when you read the full context.
All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. …Jesus (speaking to god), ca. 30-33 AD.
That alone destroys the tsunami of text that you wasted your time composing. All you had to do was read a little further in John 17.
As I said, when jesus says that he “is the way, the truth and the light” and that “no one comes to the father except through me” he is clearly preaching a christ centric message.
“Funny how Jesus never clarified the Trinity or said : ”I AM YAHWEH” or that the Father is seen to be bowing down to Jesus, but Jesus does bow down and worship the One God! Wow.”
Jesus clearly identified himself as divine, and the Holy Spirit as divine in addition to the father’s status as god. That aside, the biggest problem with this tired muslim argument is that jesus did not come to be worshiped but to serve – that is as basic to christian theology as one can get. You have to comprehend this concept to understand jesus’ ministry.
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I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.
Obviously Yahweh would not say that.
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That makes absolutely no senses whatsoever, and worse, you’ve moved the goalposts. You don’t like to discuss in good faith do you?
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What, precisely, do I not want to discuss?
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Your irrational beliefs? Your ignorance of christianity? Am I a mind reader?
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How about we discuss the post?
According to John 5:30, Jesus said:
‘I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.’
This harmonises nicely with my statement: Jesus’ preaching was theocentric – not christocentric.
God would never say that He can do nothing on His own.
God would never say He was sent by someone (or something) else.
God would never say He judges as God tells Him.
God would never say that He is a just judge because He carries out some one else’s will.
Agreed?
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If the one God of the universe, Creator of the heavens and the earth, wanted to convey to His people that He alone was God and there was no other who shared this unique distinction with Him, what words would He use so that there would be no possibility for error? What phrase could He have selected so that there would be no chance of misunderstanding? If you or I wanted to describe the unique oneness of God in a way that could not be misinterpreted, how would we express this? Would we not have used the words that Moses reported God to have said in Deuteronomy 32:39,
“See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides Me . . .”
As a result of this and many other inspiring affirmations throughout the Jewish Scriptures, (Click here for a list of texts.) faithful Jews to this day will only worship the One life-giving God of Israel – alone.
No prophet in Tanach ever remained silent on this foundational teaching. As if with one voice, they pleaded with their often-wayward nation never to compromise their faith for anything other than the unwavering monotheism that they tirelessly preached. Over and over again, the Hebrew Bible declared with deliberate clarity in its most celebrated creeds that the Almighty alone is God, and there is no other. Nothing could ever be “screened” or “veiled” because the very survival of the Jewish people depended on it. The Torah intimately connects the faith in one indivisible God with the national experience of the Jewish people throughout their long history. Dreadful suffering was the consequence for any defection from the uncompromising monotheism that the Almighty demanded of His people.
Throughout the Jewish Scriptures, God never “screened or veiled his divine nature.” In fact, Isaiah unequivocally proclaimed that the Almighty did not reveal Himself in darkness or in a hidden or veiled fashion. The prophet, speaking in the Almighty’s name, declares that,
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob’s descendants, “Seek Me in vain.” I, the Lord, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
(Isaiah 45:19)
Although the belief in the unity of God is taught and declared on virtually every page of the Jewish Scriptures, the doctrine of the Trinity is never mentioned anywhere throughout the entire corpus of the Hebrew Bible. Moreover, this doctrine is not to be found anywhere in the New Testament either because primitive Christianity, in its earliest stages, was still monotheistic. The authors of the New Testament were completely unaware that the Church they had fashioned would eventually embrace a pagan deification of a triune deity. Although the worship of a three-part godhead was well known and fervently venerated throughout the Roman Empire and beyond in religious systems such as Hinduism and Mithraism, it was quite distant from the Judaism from which Christianity emerged. However, when the Greek and Roman mind began to dominate the Church, it created a theological disaster from which Christendom has never recovered. By the end of the fourth century, the doctrine of the Trinity was firmly in place as a central tenet of the Church, and strict monotheism was formally rejected by Vatican councils in Nicea and Constantinople.1
When Christendom adopted a triune godhead from neighboring triune religious systems, it spawned a serious conundrum for post-Nicene Christian apologists. How would they harmonize this new veneration of Jesus as a being who is of the same substance as the Father with a New Testament that portrays Jesus as a separate entity, subordinate to the Father, and created by God? How would they now integrate the teaching of the Trinity with a New Testament that recognized the Father alone as God? In essence, how would Christian apologists merge a first century Christian Bible, which was monotheistic, with a fourth century Church which was not?
This task was particularly difficult because throughout the Gospels and Paul’s letters Jesus never claims to be God. On the contrary, the New Testament makes it clear that he is not God, but rather an agent of God, entirely subordinate to the Father. For example, in John 14:28, the author of the fourth Gospel has Jesus declare,
“I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I.”
The example you mentioned illustrates this particularly well. In the Book of Mark, Jesus is asked by four of his disciples when the Tribulation period will occur. Jesus responds,
But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the son, but the Father
(Mark 13:32)
The problems this verse creates for Trinitarians are staggering. If Jesus were coequal with the Father, how could the Father have information that Jesus lacked? That is to say, if Jesus were God manifested in the flesh, as missionaries contend, how can God not know something? If somehow the second Person of the godhead didn’t know, how did the first Person find out? Moreover, if, as some Trinitarians persist, the son was limited by his human nature, why didn’t the Holy Spirit know?
Christians cannot simply explain away this verse by insisting that it was Jesus’ human or humble nature that did not know. This is because the doctrine of the Trinity does not hold that Jesus was half God and half man. Rather, Jesus was one hundred percent God and one hundred percent man. His substance as God was not diminished because of his human nature. As the ecclesiastical Athanasian Creed2 explicitly states:
The divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal. What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
Few statements defining the nature of the triune godhead have so plainly spelled out the nature of the doctrine of the Trinity as does this durable fourth century creed.
Some missionaries will argue, as you point out, that Jesus’ statement in John 10:30, “I and my Father are one,” demonstrates that Jesus considered himself God. The Greek word ἐν (hen), meaning “one,” however, does not imply being a part of the same substance. We see this clearly in John 17:11 and 17:21-22 where Jesus prays to God that the disciples may be one (ἐν) as are Jesus and God. Clearly, Jesus is requesting that the disciples be of one unified purpose, not of the same substance or part of the Trinity.
Moreover, John 10:30-34 is particularly revealing. The fourth Gospel describes how when the Jews heard Jesus proclaim, “I and my Father are one,” they immediately wanted to stone him. When Jesus asks them why they wanted to kill him, the Jews responded because “you claim to be God.” Upon hearing this, Jesus asked, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?” This response is one of the most important statements in the Book of John, and should at least give Trinitarians pause.
The verse is found in Psalm 82:6 where the Bible refers to judges who teach God’s divine law as gods. This title was bestowed on them because they were teachers of the Almighty’s divine Law and sacred Oracles, not because they were actually God in any way. This usage is quite common in the Jewish Scriptures. For example, in Exodus 7:1 Moses is called a god because he was God’s representative to Pharaoh. In essence, Jesus’ reply is inconsistent the proposal that missionaries are seeking to advance. Jesus, as depicted by John, is explaining that his identification with God is comparable to that of a Jewish judge.
The fact remains that no author in the New Testament ever advanced the doctrine of the Trinity. Many years passed from the time the last Gospel was published for the Church to promote this alien creed.
Sincerely yours,
Rabbi Tovia Singer
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There are numerous places in the OT where god speaks of himself in pluralistic terms….
“Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens.” Genesis 19:24
“I (God) overthrew some of you, as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,” AMos 4:11
“Behold, I (God) am stirring up the Medes against them, ……And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them.” Is 13:17/19
If the trinity is polytheism, then the OT is polytheistic.
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So you admit your religion is polytheistic then lol
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It is as polytheistic as judaism.
And I have to say that your “gotcha” comments are lame.
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Rabbi Singer,
A person is a Jew who is one inwardly.
Your carnal ritualistic religion is not pleasing to God any more. The Father desires to be workshiped in spirit and truth.
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Did the Authors of the New Testament Believe in the Doctrine of the Trinity?
Matthew 3:17
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
What is the value of God indicating his pleasure in Jesus, if Jesus was himself? And what did Jesus supposedly achieve here, if he was God and it was impossible for him to sin, or do wrong? Was God taking pleasure in himself?
Matthew 20:20-23
The mother of the sons of Zebedee… said to him 21[Jesus][/Jesus], “Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.” 22 But Jesus answered and said…, 23“You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
If Jesus was fully God, why could only the Father, and not Jesus, grant that the two sons of Zebedee sit at the right and left of Jesus?
Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he [Jesus][/Jesus] fell on his face to the ground and prayed, saying, “O my Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.
If the Father and Jesus were of the same substance, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will, out of necessity, would have been that of the Father’s.
Matthew 26:53
Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
If Jesus was God, why would he need to request from God legions of angels? Is there anything God lacks that He must request from another?
Mark 10:17-20
If, as Trinitarians insist, Jesus was God, why did Jesus rebuke the man for addressing him as “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life”? 18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.” 19“You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder…’” 20And he said to him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.”
If, as Trinitarians insist, Jesus was God, why did Jesus rebuke the man for addressing him as “Good Teacher”? (Jesus believed th at the title “good” was appropriate for God alone, who he considered the only standard of goodness).
Interestingly, once the man was corrected, thereafter he only referred to Jesus as “Teacher.”
Mark 13:32
“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the son, but the Father.”
If Jesus was coequal with the Father, how could the Father have information that Jesus lacked? Moreover, if, as some Trinitarians suggest, the son was limited by his human nature, why didn’t the Holy Spirit know?
John 5:37
“And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen.”
Yet Jesus said, “The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.” (John 13:16) Jesus said on numerous occasions that, “the Father… hath sent me.” (John 5:37,6:37) The Holy Ghost was also sent by the Father (John 14:26) and Jesus (John 16:7), thus making Jesus subordinate to the Father and the Holy Ghost inferior to both the Father and Jesus.
Moreover, God is by nature invisible and never seen, Jesus was of course seen. John 1:18, I John 4:12, I Tim. 6:16
John 8:17-18
“In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”
In John 8:17-18, Jesus quotes from the Law the necessity that evidence, to be valid, must be agreed upon by two witnesses. Jesus states that the two witnesses are himself and God. Two, not one. If Jesus was God, there was only one witness, and if Jesus says there are two, then he and God are not one.
John 10:30
“I, and my Father are one.” 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 32″We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God. ” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods?’” (see Psalm 82:6)
Trinitarians maintain that Jesus’ statement, “l and my Father are one,” demonstrates that Jesus was declaring himself to be God. The Greek word ἕν (one), however, does not imply being a part of the same substance. This is clearly illustrated in John 17:11 and 17:21-22, where in these passages Jesus prays to God that the disciples may be one (ἕν) as Jesus and God are.
Jesus is obviously requesting that the disciples be of one unified purpose, not of the same substance or part of the Trinity.
Moreover, John 10:30-34 is particularly revealing. The fourth Gospel claims that when the Jews heard Jesus proclaim, “I and my Father are one,” they immediately wanted to stone him to death. When Jesus asked why they wanted to kill him, the Jews responded because “you claim to be God.” Upon hearing this Jesus asked, “ls it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?”
This response gives us Insight into the mind of the author of the Book of John, and should be instructive to Trlnltarians.
The verse quoted by Jesus is found in Psalm 82:6 where the Bible refers to judges who teach God’s divine Law as gods.
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’” (Psalm 82:6)
Moreover, the Torah identities Judges as gods (אֱלֹהִים) as well,
Then his master shall bring him to the judges הָאֱלֹהִים… for any kind of lost thing which 8 another claims to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges (אֱלֹהִים); and whoever the judges (אֱלֹהִים) condemn shall pay double to his neighbor. (Exodus 21 :6, 22:8)
This title was bestowed on Jewish judges because they are agents of the Almighty’s divine law, not because they were actually God in any way. The Jewish Scriptures frequently refers to agents of God as a god.
For example, in Exodus 7:1 Moses is called a “god” because he was God’s representative to Pharaoh.
The New Testament never claims that Jesus is God, the Creator of the universe, but rather His subordinate representative.
John 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
If God and Jesus are “one in essence,” as the Trinity doctrine says, how could Jesus’ accord, or will, be different from that of his Father? How can Jesus’ privilege not be the same as God? Moreover, if Jesus was the same as God, why would God have to send or command God to do anything?
John 14:28
“…I [Jesus][/Jesus] go unto the Father, for my father is greater than I.”
This verse speaks for itself.
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom thou hast sent.
Here Jesus insists that the Father is the “only true God.” The Greek word used here for “only” is monos, which is meant to exclude all others. Clearly, the Father cannot be “the only true God” if there are two others who are God to the same degree as he is.
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her [Mary][/Mary], “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
If Jesus was God, why would he tell Mary that he considered her Father as his Father, and her God as his God? In Revelations 3:12, after the crucifixion, we continue to see Jesus calling the Father “my God.” But never in the Christian Bible is the Father reported to refer to Jesus as “my God,” nor does either the Father or Jesus refer to the Holy Spirit as “my God.”
Did Paul Believe In Doctrine of the Trinity?
I Corinthians 8:4
…and that is none other God but one. 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there may be many gods, and many lords,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Paul insists that only the Father is declared to be the one and only God. In Ephesians 1:17 Paul is still unaware of the Trinity when he says, “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
I Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
This verse does not depict Jesus as coequal with God. On the contrary, God is of superior rank to Jesus. Moreover, this statement reveals that the New Testament did not consider Jesus to be equal with God even after the ascension. Paul wrote these words around 55 C.E. — long after the crucifixion.
I Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Here Paul unambiguously insists that Jesus was subordinate to God as His “subject.” Throughout the New Testament it is claimed that God bestowed authority upon Jesus – never the other way around.
I Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…
As mentioned above, this concept is restated many times throughout the New Testament: the Father is Jesus’ God — never the other way around (see also Matt. 4:7, 27:46; Rom. 15:6, II Cor. 1:3, I Pet. 1:3; Rev. 1:6, 3:12 (four times).
Colossians 1:15
He [Jesus][/Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
If the earliest Christians believed in the Trinity, why doesn’t the New Testament ever refer to the Father or the Holy Spirit as the “firstborn of all creation?” Understandably, the New Testament would never refer to the Father as “firstborn” because early Christianity considered the Father alone eternal.
I Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
The fact that Paul clearly distinguishes between God and Jesus places considerable strain on Trinitarianism.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Consider how the temptation of Jesus is portrayed throughout the Gospels. The New Testament emphatically states “Jesus was tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.” But the Church’s claim that Jesus is God creates insurmountable contradictions: Temptation without the possibility of falling to sin is meaningless. If Jesus is God, it was impossible for him to sin, and it makes no sense to say he was tempted.
Moreover, James 1:13 states that God cannot be tempted!
Hebrews 5:7
[Jesus][/Jesus] offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.
Why would God need to beg and cry to God to save him from death? Moreover, if the author of Hebrews considered Jesus God, why does Hebrews 5:8 insist that Jesus learned obedience from suffering? Is there anything God does not know and must learn through experience?
Sincerely yours,
Rabbi Tovia Singer
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Good articles , Rabbi Tovia.
I suggest to brother Paul to give Rabbi Tovia. a space to write his thoughts as well in this blog .
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Rabbi, You don’t know me but when I was sixteen I heard your tape by mistake and what followed was nearly a decade of serious bible reading… (And the qoran and NT) You changed my life probably more than anyone else… I can’t thank you enough… Regards from Jerusalem
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UPDATE: I have had it confirmed to me that the real Rabbi Tovia Singer is not the author of ANY comments on this blog.
The person commenting here under the rabbis name is a IMPOSTER.
Here is the imposters email & IP address:
manuy_12@gmx.com
85.211.46.65
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Sorry to hear that.
Whoever he is, he really made good points by these amazing articles.
I have to save them in my computer 🙂
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Rabbi Tovia Singer
You see. Muslims likes you and Muslims do not hate the Jews. It is these evangelical Christians who tried to divide us. I am happy you are resisting that and trying to tell the truth and make truth your cardinal principles.
We have been reading your articles and videos. We hope you accept Paul Williams invitation to write here. One thing about this blog though, is that there are agreement and disagreement but in amicable and friendly manner.
Thanks.
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Paul Williams
Trey has run away. He can stand the truth of Islam and Muslims like you. Trey believes Yahweh is God and Yahweh is Jesus and God can do nothing on his own?
If Trey does not repent on his believe that God can do nothing on his own, hell fire is waiting for Trey. Paul W. I and you and any God fearing believe it is not true for God to say He can do nothing on his own but Trey believed that.
In all these, Trey’s brain is telling him that him believing God can do nothing on his own is rational than we who believed it is irrational.
If a mad man does not know he is mad then it is a serious madness and difficult to treat but If a mad man know he is sick and there is some thing wrong or irrational about him, his treatment is easy and he most of the time those mad people becomes well.
Trey does not believe it is irrational for God to say “I can do nothing on my own”.
Trey asks
Am I a mind reader?
I answer
Every Trinitarian is a mind reader. They read the mind of God and say God is God-Man, Tree Persons 1 God, Jesus, and the Jews believed Jesus was God and that is why they pick stones to throw at him etc.
How can someone pick stones and throw at someone if that Person is God? Trey knows this because he is a mind reader and reads the minds of God and Men i.e. Jews.
Thanks.
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Intellect
You are too dumb for words.
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Rabbi Singer,
“But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”
Hebrews 1:8
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not to be taken literally.
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Furious Stylez, I love the name haha. Boyz N The Hood.
But that part in Hebrews is quoting psalm 45, and in that verse in psalms, the King, presumably the messiah is spoken of as God’s representative as far as I know.
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Singer is still wrong. He should argue his points one at a time instead of using the shotgun method to overwhelm his opponents. Is he a coward or something?
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for example:
“Why is it that Jesus constantly refers to the Father as God but the Father never does this with regards to Jesus?”
Stupid argument #1
The relationship of man to God is from the Word to the Father because the Word has taken on flesh. It can’t be the other way round.
“Why is it that the Torah, Ketuvim and Nevi’im identify only the Father as God but never Jesus? Why is it that Jesus prays to the Father but never is the Father seen praying to Jesus?””
stupid argument #2
Begging the question. Of course the OT does not identify Jesus as God because the Word has not identified himself through the human nature of Jesus. The Father of the OT is all three persons of the NT. Not just the Father of the NT.
More to follow, dv.
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“The Father of the OT is all three persons of the NT. Not just the Father of the NT.”
Wow. Amazing. Absolutely mind boggling.
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“Rabbi Singer,
A person is a Jew who is one inwardly.
Your carnal ritualistic religion is not pleasing to God any more. The Father desires to be workshiped in spirit and truth.”
I agree. How can he call himself a rabbi. He has perverted the true Judaism of the OT and reduced it to a deviant form by mixing it with humanism.
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Was that the real Rabbi Tovia Singer commenting?
If so, wow! Have to say I agree with a lot of what he said.
My question is Rabbi, what are your opinions of Jesus Christ (or Jesus Ben Joseph, Jesus son of Mary)?
I know you don’t believe him to be the messiah but in light of what you’ve said, do you believe him to be a credible person speaking for God?
I know Maimonides once said that Jesus and Muhammad (or Christianity and Islam) were essentially tools that God was using to bring the whole world to believe in one God, in preparation for the messianic age, or something like that anyway. Would that mean that in your view as a Jew that there is credibility and truth behind these respective religions?
Perhaps a discussion for its own post.
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To the Rabbi
You said this…
Why is it that Jesus constantly refers to the Father as God but the Father never does this with regards to Jesus? Why is it that the Torah, Ketuvim and Nevi’im identify only the Father as God but never Jesus?
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
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Just read the next verse! Father has never labeled Jesus as ( his God) .
Alos, you have to be aware of that book of Hebrew was wriiten by anonymous man.
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I agree with you completely regarding Paul, Rabbi. However, Jesus peace be upon him was rather than clear about himself if you read the NT with a critical eye.
Jesus is the messiah with no doubt, Rabbi. ( It’d be anther topic I hope that we can discuss it in the future ) .
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Rabbi Tovia
Muslims all but call the Torah a piece of shit. They think that the jews have corrupted it and changed it.
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I respect your position Rabbi but I’d like to mention something.
In Deuteronomy 13:1-2 it says that even false prophets can perform miracles and their prophecies can come true. So regardless of whether you say Jesus’ prophecies did not come true it is not enough to say that he was a false prophet. He spoke in the name of the God of Abraham and continued to preach the same message that Jews were familiar with. Nothing Jesus said was out of the ordinary, except for the things that he said about himself such as being the messiah or son of man from Daniel. But the message was completely familiar for example, he said the Shema was the most important commandment and emphasised the importance of following the law but not making a burden out of it.
And I would argue that Jesus did have fulfilled or currently ongoing prophecies. For example Jesus said that the gospel would be preached throughout the whole world and this is evident to see in our times today. Despite the controversy behind the other end times prophecies you mentioned, at least Jesus also said that no one knows the the time or hour of the last day, only the Father.
In Acts 5:38 a Pharisee told a group of Jews to leave Jesus’ disciples alone because ” if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
If Christianity was purely of human origin then it would have died out in the 1st century or the centuries following rather than having a powerful influence throughout the world. This isn’t to say that church doctrines such as the trinity are perfect but I agree with whoever mentioned Maimonides above.
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Thanks for your response Rabbi,
There are a number of responses to that passage post-CS Lewis but it will be too long to mention here. I can’t imagine any of them satisfying you anyway.
I don’t believe the Bible to be a perfect book, Hebrew Bible and NT alike but there are reasons I find in both to believe in it.
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UPDATE: I have had it confirmed to me that the real Rabbi Tovia Singer is not the author of ANY comments on this blog.
The person commenting here under the rabbis name is a IMPOSTER.
Here is the imposters email & IP address:
manuy_12@gmx.com
85.211.46.65
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Rabbi I know you hold a respectable position and all but you are a human being who is prone to error like anyone else so I will point out a few things.
To post a Bart Ehrman video will do nothing for your cause. He is the same guy who holds opposing views to your belief of the Torah. To pick and choose what bits of Bart’s views you like is misleading.
You call Muslims your cousins and Christians your enemies and I guess that’s simply because of the similarities in monotheism and religious observance of the law. Yet it is the Christians who believe in the Hebrew Bible and do their best on this blog to defend your perfect Torah which Muslims call a corrupt and tainted book. I know you have problems with the trinity but don’t forget that not all Christians are Trinitarians.
You call Jesus a false prophet yet he is revered in Christianity and Islam as the messiah.
Jesus’ message was theocentric but he asks that even if you don’t believe in him believe in what he does (John 10:38-39) because it is God who sent him.
You seem to have some sort of bitterness towards Christians which I could also argue was predicted by Paul in Romans 11 whom you called false. I don’t know if that’s because of your past experiences or for how Christians treated Jews in the past but persecution of Jews was not sanctioned by the New Testament, don’t let the actions or beliefs of certain Christians give you a bad impression of the entire religion.
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The writings of the church fathers aren’t scripture.
And believe me my feelings are not hurt.
If anything, based on what you’ve written, the one who is in pain is you.
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Paul Williams, is this the real Rabbi Singer? I cannot imagine he would say things like
“Hence every effort must be made to expose and destroy the Christian abomination.” ?? Or post video clips by Bart Ehrman?
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Thanks for the warning. I will try and check. I’m at work now so will look into it later
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Based on what I’ve read I don’t know if it is rabbi Singer, I can be a bit direct and crude on here but boy that is another level.
But… If it is the real Tovia Singer don’t be surprised. He is a human being after all and he is not perfect.
I wouldn’t be surprised since he is already such a strong opponent of Christian belief anyway, just look at his website. In one article he says that the Christian Bible portrays Jews in the worst possible colors which is far from true, the earliest followers of Jesus including himself and Paul were Jews after all. He even says the worlds oldest hatred is alive and well. Really? Aren’t Christians like the most Zion loving people you will find, many of whom believe Israel and Jews deserve their rightful place in the land which they currently occupy?
All of what I mentioned can be found in the article named “who was Jesus” on his outreach Judaism site.
When you become too consumed with something and view things in just one way you tend to become very radical and passionate about it. If his emotions and passions slipped out here, like I’ve said don’t be surprised. If it’s not the real rabbi then I’m sure it’s one of his passionate followers.
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It is not him.
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He is an imposter. I have just heard via a friend from the real rabbi. I have deleted his posts.
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Ah great, just wasted so much time on an imposter. Off to work I go.
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Sorry about that. It’s not always easy to detect an imposter.
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If only they could have deleted pseudepigraphy back then… Saved us a lot of trouble.
Is this from Paulus? Nope. Deleted!
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I also had doubts
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It’s disgusting
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indeed
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UPDATE: I have had it confirmed to me that the real Rabbi Tovia Singer is not the author of ANY comments on this blog.
The person commenting here under the rabbis name is a IMPOSTER.
Here is the imposters email & IP address:
manuy_12@gmx.com
85.211.46.65
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I’m guessing this is a response to Trey.
The thing is, apart from what you said about Paul I completely agree with you about what the Quran says about the Torah and also the gospel and many Christians here do too. Unfortunately the Muslims do not see it that way.
You say the Christian scholars are the main proponents of textual corruption of the Torah… Wow I have never come across that before. Seriously. Every Christian I know believes in the Torah. The so called Christian scholars who may say that the Torah has corruptions are the same who would also hold that view about the New Testament too, the word you are looking for is liberal scholars. There are also liberal Jewish scholars who say the same thing about their own texts and also liberal Muslims who would say the same about the Quran (although it is rare to find a liberal Muslim scholar come out and say that since they will no longer be considered Muslim and it’s dangerous too).
“But the Qur;an is purely Monotheistic whilst the Christian Faith is purely Polytheistic. ”
No the New Testament has nothing polytheistic about it. Even Paul says God is “the God and Father of Jesus Christ” and says that God is the head of Christ.
I’m sorry to say this but your credibility as a rabbi or scholar is limited when you inject too many emotional or biased opinions into your work. Your fanatical obsession and opposition to the Trinity blinds you from seeing useful things from a different perspective to the point where you even accuse Christian scholars of being the main proponents of textual corruption in the Torah. I don’t care how knowledgeable someone is, they lose much credibility in my sight when they act like that.
May God have mercy on you
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As has been mentioned, the ideas of co-eternity and co-equality are post-NT beliefs rather than root or core Christian beliefs.
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Mr or Miss Oops, I never stated that the Qur’an endorses the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Bible- it certainly does not, no matter how much Christians wish it so. The Qur’an does mention specific Books that are of Divine Origin according to the Islamic view. One of the Books mentioned is the Torah. But the Quran in Surah Baqarah verse 75 does mention something very interesting
Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?
This verse is alleging the deliberate distortion of the Torah. So there does seem to be a Qur’anic basis to the corruption of the scripture theory in an Islamic context.
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I’m a man and stop using that name you imposter.
It seems you are a Muslim disguising yourself as a Jew, that way you can join in on criticising Christians without being seen as a bad Muslim by the rest of the members.
I don’t get your logic, you can pick the silliest name you want, just look at mine, yet you pick Tovia Singer.
Haven’t got time for this, bye
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Why are you impersonating a respected Rabbi?
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Impersonating someone is a big sin in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I guess in modern law as well. The person who used Rabbi Singers name has sinned and needs repentance. We all taught it is him. How can you sign somebody’s name?
Repent and asks for forgiveness. The prophet said the small sins who do not expect can land us in to trouble. May God forbid.
Thanks.
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thought
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thought
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Nice Intellect.
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UPDATE: I have had it confirmed to me that the real Rabbi Tovia Singer is not the author of ANY comments on this blog.
The person commenting here under the rabbi’s name is a IMPOSTER.
Here is the imposter’s email & IP address:
manuy_12@gmx.com
85.211.46.65
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