What was the age of Rebecca when she was married off to Isaac? According to Rabbis in medieval history, she was no older than three 3-years-old. The Rabbis deduced this age number for Rebecca, from the Bible itself. A second early source, puts her age at 10.
Whenever Rabbi Rashi (or others) is quoted as saying that Rebecca was 3-years-old when she was married off, missionaries and other Christians dismiss this, and claim that this is only quoted from a man in the 11th century. There is no evidence that Rebecca was 3-years-old when married off in the Bible, they claim.
Even I, was surprised that Rashi, one of the most respected Rabbis would come to the conclusion that she was three, when married off to Isaac. This made me ask myself, why would an eminent scholar of such high calibre say that she was three when…
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Categories: Islam
Blogging Theology 
If you really want to see how repulsive and disgusting these Muhammadan apologists truly are as they seek to defend their 54 year old profit have sex with a 9 year old minor who was still playing with her dolls, read this article where a Muhammadan tries to prove that Isaac was around 30-37 years old when he married Rebecca whom he tries so desperately to prove was around 3 to 10 when she married Isaac! https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/10/26/the-age-of-rebecca-when-she-married-isaac-biblical-perceptive/
Note the assumptions.
1. He assumes that Abraham offered up Isaac around the same time that Sarah died, which would have made 37 years old. He doesn’t get this from the text of Scripture, but from the traditions of the rabbis who fail to provide a single shred of evidence for this assertion.
2. Thinking he is slick, he then cites Christians to show that they also posit Isaac’s age somewhere in his thirties, specifically 30-33, but fails to see why they did/do so. He even deceitfully omits some of the context of these same commentaries since they show that NONE OF THE PROPOSED AGES ARE BASED ON THE EXPLICIT WITNESS OF SCRIPTURE OR ON HISTORICAL FACTS, BUT ON MERE CONJECTURE.
Note their words carefully:
Thomas Coke Commentary on the Holy Bible:
Genesis 22:6. Abraham took the wood, and laid it upon Isaac— Hence it appears, among other circumstances, that Isaac must have been full-grown at this time. JOSEPHUS REPORTS HIM TO HAVE BEEN TWENTY-FIVE. It appears probable that he was more: there were about thirty-seven years from his birth to the death of Sarah; so that it is not unlikely, that in age, as well as in bearing the wood, on which he was to be sacrificed, HE REPRESENTED CHRIST, who bore his own cross, and was above thirty years old. It is also observed, that Isaac, being of this age, must have voluntarily submitted to be bound and sacrificed by his father, as so old a man could not have had strength sufficient, had Isaac resisted. Josephus puts a pathetic speech into Abraham’s mouth on the occasion, and describes Isaac’s submission as the result. But nothing can be conceived more pathetic and affecting than the plain narrative here given by Moses; the natural and melting inquiries of Isaac; the resolved, yet tender replies of the father. Here too we may discern in this willing oblation of Isaac, a figure of His oblation who freely gave himself to die for the salvation of sinners.
And:
Lange’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: Critical, Doctrinal, and Homiletical:
“Starke: (Moses does not relate the peculiar time of this severe test of Abraham’s faith. Some place it in the thirteenth, others in the fifteenth, and still others in the thirty-fifth or thirty-seventh year of Isaac. Because in this whole transaction Isaac WAS A TYPE OF CHRIST, AND HE FINISHED THE WORK OF REDEMPTION, THROUGH HIS DEATH, IN THE THIRTY-THIRD, OR ACCORDING TO OTHERS THE THIRTY-FOURTH, YEAR OF HIS AGE, IT MAY WELL BE THOUGHT that in this year also Isaac was led out as a sacrifice.” (Lange’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: Critical, Doctrinal, and Homiletical – Genesis 22, online source)
As you can see, these Christians felt that Isaac’s age must have been around 33 because of their belief in his being a picture of Christ who died around that same age. In other words, PURE CONJECTURE WITHOUT A SHRED OF HISTORICAL EVIDENCE!
3. Without providing a shred of historical or archaeological evidence the Muhammadan assumes that the later rabbinic traditions regarding Rebecca’s age are correct, even though these traditions composed over 2, 000 years after Moses wrote Genesis.
The most ironic part of all this is that this vile Muhammadan is now appealing to the Torah and rabbinic tradition to justify Islam permitting the virtual rape and abuse of premature girls, even though this same Muhammadan condemns the Torah as a corrupted book and rejects rabbinic tradition from being inspired in any sense. All of a sudden these same sources are now reliable enough to justify his 54 year old profit marrying a child who was playing with dolls and on swings!
Truly vile and reprehensible, which only shows what happens to people’s moral decency and minds who follow Muhammad
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That article doesn’t try to justify anything. It just shows how ignorant you are in the historical context of your own bible. You try desperately to make the bible fit within the secular western values,but it doesn’t work unless you give up of its teachings, and that happaned lot in the church history. For example, christianity has adopted the idols and images from Roman empire which was a dominant culture at that time and still. Just wait 5-10 years when christians will start shouting against Islam for it doesn’t allow for gays marriage.
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Shamoon, stop throwing tantrums. As long as you spew this garbage, filth at Muslims and Islam, rest assured we will write article after article exposing your faith for what it is. The day you (Wood, Prince) become a man, and dialogue with Muslims respectively and analyse our scriptures with respect, without throwing this bile, we will leave your Bible alone. Until then, be sure, that more of these articles will be published.
Now, coming to your claims. It just shows you have never read the article, nor did you understand the points made.
1. We used the BIBLE as first evidence to deduce Rebecca’s age.
2. The commentaries (ancient and contemporary) were just additional proof that what we said was a fact.
You claimed that the author of the article said he was 30-37 when he married her, WRONG!. He was 33-37 at Mount Moria incident. He married her at the age of 40. Rebecca was born AFTER Mount Moria incident.
As for the commentaries, NO twisting happened. They DEDUCED that Isaac was in his THIRTIES as a result of the Mount Moriah incident. This is clearly stated in their commentaries. And then they said that he was a bit Christ like. Our point in regards to the article still stands. That Isaac was in his thirties when he was on Mount Moriah, as the Bible itself clearly alludes to it.
Besides this marriage, are you aware that Jesus, whose god of the Old testament allowed Moses and his men to marry/rape prepubescent girls?:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/07/a-detailed-historical-examination-of-numbers-3118/
What about Jacob in the Bible marrying off his 3-7 year old daughter to Shechem?
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/02/bible-how-old-was-dinah-when-she-was-married-to-shechem/
How about King David a Prophet in the Bible marrying a 12-year-old Abishag, when he David was 70 (Seventy) years old?
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/17/king-davids-marriage-to-12-year-old-abishag-bible/
Part 2,
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/21/exploring-1-kings-14-knew-her-not-king-davids-12-year-old-bride/
And Part 3:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/25/bible-evidence-that-david-married-12-year-old-abishag/
More articles to follow, God willing.
Ouch!
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May Allah bless you brother Kaleef. Keep up the good work. May Allah be with you and strengthen you with Hujjah.
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Ameen, wa’iyyaum br Abdullah.
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wa’iyyakum**
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Graham,
There’s no answer so far to the problem in your bible.
Insulting our prophet pbuh based on your secular values couldn’t solve the problem in your bible.
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That’s why I don’t trust that guy. It’s true that 12 was the minimum age of marriage in ancient Israel and Judah, but most girls married around 15-17 in ancient Israel and Judah. 12 was the ideal age of marriage, but not real age of marriage.
Pg 71 (read the notes)
Insights from Archaeology
By David A. Fiensy
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We need an answer from those who ” love their enemies” about this point :
” is the significance of Isaac’s age at the time of his sacrifice? Well, according to the Bible, Isaac was 37-years-old when he went up on Mount Moriah with his father. Rebecca was born straight after Isaac and Abraham, came down from the Mount Moriah and they went to Beersheba. Isaac was married to Rebecca when he was 40-years-old (Genesis 25:20). Since that is the case, this would mean Rebecca, was married off when she was 3 (or 4) years old. This would render Rabbi Rashi’s statement and others of Rebecca being 3-years-old when married to Isaac, as true when we look at Genesis account closely ”
Who dares ???
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Disgraceful that you guys are trying so hard to defend mohammed’s pedophilia. Even if we accept the ridiculous claims of this article, that still does not absolve mohammed of his pedophilic behaviour. It doesn’t change the fact that muslims are commanded to view mohammed’s actions as exemplary – christians and jews are not commanded to follow isaac’s example in all things – and that you are arguing to perpetuate the abuse of children.
Islam, the religion of perverts.
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Muslims are not required to follow Muhammad in all things. Where did you get that silly idea from?
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From the eternal word of allah.
“”And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment””
“Say (O Muhammad to mankind): “If you (really) love Allaah then follow me, Allaah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
“Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.”
Those commands should be familiar to you. You’re not a moderate reform quasi-muslim are you?
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I might be but these texts do not say what you claim. We are not required to copy everything he did. That’s obviously not possible.
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Yes, you are a reform, quasi-muslim. Using your bizarre reasoning, you can’t imitate anything he did, so why follow the sunnah at all?
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True I am all those things.
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Would you answer
” is the significance of Isaac’s age at the time of his sacrifice? Well, according to the Bible, Isaac was 37-years-old when he went up on Mount Moriah with his father. Rebecca was born straight after Isaac and Abraham, came down from the Mount Moriah and they went to Beersheba. Isaac was married to Rebecca when he was 40-years-old (Genesis 25:20). Since that is the case, this would mean Rebecca, was married off when she was 3 (or 4) years old. This would render Rabbi Rashi’s statement and others of Rebecca being 3-years-old when married to Isaac, as true when we look at Genesis account closely ”
??
===========
Please my brothers, don’t give those people any chance to avoid answering.
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I’m glad we agree – you pick and choose which of allah’s commands you want to follow. That makes you a quasi-muslim.
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Abdullah
Christians are not obliged to follow the example of isaac. ANd it seems a bit odd that a three-year old would be carrying water from the well and able to speak so coherently.
You are obliged to copy mohammed – everything he did is an example. It is what your god commanded.
Hence, islam is the religion of sexual perversion.
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Your ignorance of Islam is obvious, we are not required to be prophets like him, we are not required to have as many wives as him (max 4 if we can be just), we are not required to emulate his extraordinary ascetic practices of extra prayers and fasting, we are not required to be a head of state with an army, Muslims of a female persuasion are not to live like a man, English Muslims are not required to dress like seventh century Arabs, we are not required to forsake our cars and only ride camels, and so on and so forth..
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” ANd it seems a bit odd that a three-year old would be carrying water from the well and able to speak so coherently”
Ok….
How do you reconcile what you said with these fact stated in your bible
” is the significance of Isaac’s age at the time of his sacrifice? Well, according to the Bible, Isaac was 37-years-old when he went up on Mount Moriah with his father. Rebecca was born straight after Isaac and Abraham, came down from the Mount Moriah and they went to Beersheba. Isaac was married to Rebecca when he was 40-years-old (Genesis 25:20). Since that is the case, this would mean Rebecca, was married off when she was 3 (or 4) years old. This would render Rabbi Rashi’s statement and others of Rebecca being 3-years-old when married to Isaac, as true when we look at Genesis account closely ”
If we take Sam’s version of the story in account which adopts that Issac was 30-33 in the Muria incident., then Rebecca was 9-10.
Issac is still a pedophile accirding to your secular western values.
===========
BTW, have you seen a bedouin girl working ?
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“ANd it seems a bit odd that a three-year old would be carrying water from the well and able to speak so coherently.”
2 year old can water ski
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Paul Williams
“Your ignorance of Islam is obvious, we are not required to be prophets like him, we are not required to have as many wives as him (max 4 if we can be just), we are not required to emulate his extraordinary ascetic practices of extra prayers and fasting, we are not required to be a head of state with an army, Muslims of a female persuasion are not to live like a man, English Muslims are not required to dress like seventh century Arabs, we are not required to forsake our cars and only ride camels, and so on and so forth..”
Don’t blame me for the lack of clarity of your holy book. Your god clearly says follow mohammed in all things – if subsequent generations of muslims ind that impossible to do, then you have to question allah’s omniscience and wisdom.
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It doesn’t say imitate him “in all things”. That’s your fantasy and just a lie.
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No answe Graham!
Was Isaac a pedophile according to the facts in yoyr bible or are you ganna play crazy like Sam ?
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Paul Williams
“It doesn’t say imitate him “in all things”. ‘
The quran says…
And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain…..
…and….
If you (really) love Allaah then follow me,”
and…
“Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.”
SO whatsoever mohammed gives you is permitted, i you love allah, then you must follow him, and his pattern of conduct is “beautiful” or anyone who has hope in the final day. That means his pedophilia is considered exmplary and beautiful by your god and that you are obliged to view his sick sexual appetites as beautiful and exemplary.
If your god meant something else, then he should have made himself more clear.
Abdullah
“No answe Graham!
Was Isaac a pedophile according to the facts in yoyr bible or are you ganna play crazy like Sam ?”
You haven’t established that isaac married a three year old – I’ve already said that it is strange that a -year-old can speak with such coherence and is doing the work of adult women. And, I’m not obliged to follow Isaac’s example. YOu are obliged to view mohammed’s conduct as “beautiful”.
So you answer me, is mohammed’s perverted sexual activity with little girls beautiful conduct?
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you are a sneaky scum
And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain…..
“And what Allah restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns – it is for Allah and for the Messenger and for [his] near relatives and orphans and the [stranded] traveler – so that it will not be a perpetual DISTRIBUTION among the rich from among you. And whatever the Messenger has given you – take; and what he has forbidden you – refrain from. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty”.
“Sahih International: There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.”
hope and remembrance
implies follow the messenger in everything ?
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then the next verse
Sahih International: And when the believers saw the companies, they said, “This is what Allah and His Messenger had promised us, and Allah and His Messenger spoke the truth.” And it increased them only in faith and acceptance.
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This shameful missionary (Graham) forgets to comment on the fact that Jesus who is god of the Old testament didnt condemn Isaac’s marriage to 3-year-old Rebecca as the evidence has shown.
Nor did Jesus condemn when he endorsed and sanctioned Moses and his men to marry/rape prepubescent girls in Numbers 31:18,
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/07/a-detailed-historical-examination-of-numbers-3118/
He also forgets that ALL scripture (Old testament) has to be followed:
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” – 2 Timothy 3:16
Graham is too ashamed of his Bible, he tries to impose his secular/liberal values on his Bible and twist things, so he sleeps at night.
Don’t forget also, Jesus who is god endorsed rape in many Bible verses:
Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT)
“10 When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 TAKE HER to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since you FORCED HER TO HAVE INTERCOURSE (ANAH) WITH YOU, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.”
more info:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/02/2-samuel-1314-and-deuteronomy-2114/
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“More in the next post.”
Sam copying and pasting vast tracks onto my blog is not welcome.
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Flying Pir-vert
You haven’t come even close to establishing that isaac married a 3-year-old. You are defending a pedophile. I think that it is disgusting that mohammed had sex with a 9 year old and that he fondled her in the bath.
Do you agree that it is disgusting? Is it “beautiful” conduct? Is it a good example to you?
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Graham,
There’s no answer so far to the problem in your bible.
Insulting our prophet pbuh based on your secular values couldn’t solve the problem in your bible.
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Abdullah
“There’s no answer so far to the problem in your bible.
Insulting our prophet pbuh based on your secular values couldn’t solve the problem in your bible.”
What problem are you talking about? Where is the evidence from scripture that Isaac married a 3 year old.
More importantly, do you view mohammed’s marriage to a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9 as exmplary behaviour? Is it – as your god says – “beautiful” conduct? Would you have sex with a 9 year-old? WOuld you let your 9 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?
I’m also waiting for Lying Pir-vert to answer the same question.
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Here it is
” is the significance of Isaac’s age at the time of his sacrifice? Well, according to the Bible, Isaac was 37-years-old when he went up on Mount Moriah with his father. Rebecca was born straight after Isaac and Abraham, came down from the Mount Moriah and they went to Beersheba. Isaac was married to Rebecca when he was 40-years-old (Genesis 25:20). Since that is the case, this would mean Rebecca, was married off when she was 3 (or 4) years old. This would render Rabbi Rashi’s statement and others of Rebecca being 3-years-old when married to Isaac, as true when we look at Genesis account closely ”
Any answer ?
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Adullha
Sorry, that’s pathetic.
WHere is the evidence that rebecca was 3? How do you explain from Genesis 25 how a 3 year old can become pregnant?
And you have not answered my questions…..
Do you view mohammed’s marriage to a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9 as exmplary behaviour? Is it – as your god says – “beautiful” conduct? Would you have sex with a 9 year-old? WOuld you let your 9 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?
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Graham ,
Sorry ,but I didn’t get your answer. We gave you facts based in your bible. Your answer was this question
“How do you explain from Genesis 25 how a 3 year old can become pregnant?”
How do I explain ?! Are you kidding me? Why am I supposed to explain? You are the one who have to explain not us.
Sam answered that Issac was 30-33 in the Muria incident. But still Issac is a pedophile according to this answer for Rebeeca would have been at her 7-10 years.
============
The topic is not about my prophet pbuh.
However, the dust on the shoes of the prophet pbuh is cleaner and more pure than all Christians’s moral life today.
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Abdullah
REally?
Here it is again…..
“Sorry, that’s pathetic.
WHere is the evidence that rebecca was 3? How do you explain from Genesis 25 how a 3 year old can become pregnant?
And you have not answered my questions…..
Do you view mohammed’s marriage to a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9 as exmplary behaviour? Is it – as your god says – “beautiful” conduct? Would you have sex with a 9 year-old? WOuld you let your 9 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?”
So show me in the bible where it says rebecca was 3, and answer my questions…..
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So you have decided to play dumb? Hmmmm ! Welcome to the group with Sam then.
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You think it is dumb to ask for evidence for a claim?
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Any answer? We need an answer or let’s see you make fun about OT prophets.
BTY, I’m not obligated to make you read the facts stated in that article. Deal with the article straightforwardly.
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Abdullah
“Any answer? We need an answer or let’s see you make fun about OT prophets.
BTY, I’m not obligated to make you read the facts stated in that article. Deal with the article straightforwardly.”
You guys have made the claim that rebecca was 3. You are obliged to show me where in the bible it says this.
Your attempt at deflection is pathetic.
And please answer my questions….
Do you view mohammed’s marriage to a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9 as exmplary behaviour? Is it – as your god says – “beautiful” conduct? Would you have sex with a 9 year-old? WOuld you let your 9 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?
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Graham would you let your 11/12 year old daughter marry an older man?
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Paul
NO!!!
Why would I?
Now you answer my questions….
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I see. So you must condemn God for choosing Mary at that age to be a wife to Joseph. Check mate lol
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Paul
That is just pathetic and extremely childish.
You’ll have to show your working out on that one. It in no way logically follows that I condemn god because I condemn pedophilia. Mohammed was a pedophile.
And you have to show me where in the bible it says mary was 12. And where in the bible it tells christians that pedophilia is “beautiful conduct.”
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More abuse. Anyway as I have already said, many historians have concluded based on their knowledge of first century Palestine that Mary would have been about 12 years old when she was married. Possibly younger. Now according to your bible God chose Mary to be the mother of Jesus at that age and be the husband to Joseph.
Now once again, to be consistent, do you condemn God for ordaining all this?
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Paul
It is all very simple. SHow me where in bible it states explicitly where Mary was 12, and Rebecca was 3?
Just post the bible verses – you seem to know your way about the bible, just post those specific verses.
Regardless, it still doesn’t absolve mohammed fondling Aisha while she bathed and having sex with a child.
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Graham there no verses that say how old Mary is as you well know. Historians, considering the first century evidence about marriage customs estimate her age at 12 years old or earlier.
You are inconsistent. And a hypocrite. You run away from this fact.
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“Paul
NO!!!”
why not? there is no place in the bible which prevents child marriage.
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Paul Williams
“Graham there no verses that say how old Mary is as you well know. Historians, considering the first century evidence about marriage customs estimate her age at 12 years old or earlier.”
There you go. There are no verses that specify the ages of either MAry or rebecca – it is entirely made-up to defend mohammed’s actions.
Also, just because there was a norm for the era, does not mean that it applies in this case – so it is a flismy basis on which to ase your arguments.
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It is not a made up idea. But I can see why you are embarrassed by the possibility that God chose a young girl (by today’s standards) to marry Joseph. It is a strong likelihood that is all. But it means you should shut up or be accused of hypocrisy and inconsistency.
But the truth is you are an Islamophobic bore who cares nothing for the truth
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Paul
I’m not embarrassed at all – except the poor attempts made by muslims to justify mohammed’s pedphilia. That is truly embarrassing because you are commanded to see his actions as exemplary and your god called his behaviour “beautiful conduct.”
And you have no idea if it was a strong likelihood – in act it was probably unlikely. Ages of biblical characters is given great care to record in many cases, so if there was something unusual about MAry’s age, the bible would have made that clear.
The NT could have emphasized her youth as a means to signify her purity and innocence. It doesn’t, so it is unlikely that she was particularly young.
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Thank you. They and the Christians are not command to follow Issac.
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The same vile Muhammadan apologist is at it again, perverting the Scriptures to his shame and humiliation in order to justify his 54-year-old prophet having se with a premature 9-year-old minor: https://bloggingtheology.net/2016/10/26/the-age-of-rebecca-when-she-married-isaac-biblical-perceptive/#comment-29002
He states:
BEGIN
How about King David a Prophet in the Bible marrying a 12-year-old Abishag, when he David was 70 (Seventy) years old?
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/17/king-davids-marriage-to-12-year-old-abishag-bible/
Part 2, https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/21/exploring-1-kings-14-knew-her-not-king-davids-12-year-old-bride/
And Part 3:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/25/bible-evidence-that-david-married-12-year-old-abishag/
END
Of all the passages he could have perverted he chose the one that ends up embarrassing his profit!
Now let’s see what the chapter actually says:
“Now King David was old and advanced in years, and they covered him with clothes, but he could not get warm. Therefore his servants said to him, ‘Let a young virgin be found for my lord the king, and let her stand before the king and care for him, and let her lie by your side so that my lord the king may keep warm.’ So they searched for a beautiful YOUNG WOMAN (note that it doesn’t say child!) throughout the land of Israel and found Abishag, a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. She was very beautiful and cared for the king and ministered to him, BUT THE KING DID NOT KNOW HER INTIMATELY.” 1 Kings 1:1-4 Modern English Version
Here is another translation:
“When King David was very old, he could not keep warm even when they put covers over him. So his attendants said to him, ‘Let us look for a young virgin to serve the king and take care of him. She can lie beside him so that our lord the king may keep warm.’ Then they searched throughout Israel for a beautiful YOUNG WOMAN and found Abishag, a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. THE WOMAN was very beautiful; she took care of the king and waited on him, BUT THE KING HAD NO SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH HER.” king had no sexual relations with her.”
Irony of ironies! Not only does the text NOT say that the girl was 12, BUT IT ALSO MAKES IT EMPHATICALLY CLEAR THAT DAVID DIDN’T EVEN HAVE SEX WITH HER! OUCH!
This shows that David had more honor and decency than Muhammad since, instead of deflowering a young woman who was mature enough for marriage, he chose not to touch her. This is unlike Muhammad who contracted marriage with a 6 year minor and then had sex with her when she was 9 and still playing on swings and with her dolls! David’s example condemns Muhammad for the vile human being he truly was.
Therefore, here is my challenge to this Muhammadan and his cronies. I will take shahadah and have my spouse circumcised in accord with Muhammad’s sunna if he and his fellow idolaters can show me from the text where it says Abishag was 12 years old. I will also do the same if this deceitful Muhammadan can show me where it says Dinah was 3-7 years old when Jacob married her off, or that the blessed mother of our risen Lord, Muhammad’s God and Judge, was a premature, prepubescent minor playing with her dolls when she was betrothed and supernaturally conceived our Lord while still a virgin, or that Joseph was a 54 year old pervert who had eyes for a young minor.
Sadly, this is the kind of garbage Islam produces since this is the best it can it can do and offer!
Now what does this say about these Muhammadans who, instead of condemning their vile profit for marrying a minor, and for sanctioning pedophilia and pederasty,
https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/islam-the-religion-of-pedophilia/
They go out of their way to defend this inhumane practice and abuse of children? To me, this is one of the strongest proofs of Islam’s satanic origins.
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wow Shamoun is UNABLE to read any of the articles and evidences produced. He makes a complete clown of himself.
Shamoun wrote:
//////////“Now King David was old and advanced in years, and they covered him with clothes, but he could not get warm. Therefore his servants said to him, ‘Let a young virgin be found for my lord the king, and let her stand before the king and care for him, and let her lie by your side so that my lord the king may keep warm.’ So they searched for a beautiful YOUNG WOMAN (note that it doesn’t say child!) throughout the land of Israel and found Abishag, a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. She was very beautiful and cared for the king and ministered to him, BUT THE KING DID NOT KNOW HER INTIMATELY.” 1 Kings 1:1-4 Modern English Version
…
Irony of ironies! Not only does the text NOT say that the girl was 12, BUT IT ALSO MAKES IT EMPHATICALLY CLEAR THAT DAVID DIDN’T EVEN HAVE SEX WITH HER! OUCH!//////////////
If you read my article the Christian Bible commentaries make it clear the reason why David did not have intercourse with her was due him being WEAK AND OLD:
Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable states:
“Verses 1-4
1. David”s declining health 1:1-4
It was customary in ancient times to warm an elderly person not only by covering him or her with blankets, but also by putting a healthy person in bed with him or her. [Note: Wiseman, p67.] The body heat of the well person would keep the older person warmer. David”s physicians chose Abishag to provide nursing care for David as well as to warm him. Since David was the king, they sought and found a beautiful nurse for him. In view of David”s symptoms, he may have suffered from arteriosclerosis. [Note: Gene Rice, Nations under God, p8; and Simon DeVries, 1 Kings , p12.]
“Shunammite” is an alternate reading of “Shulammite,” a resident of Shunem in Issachar. There is no way of telling if Abishag was the Shulammite Solomon loved and wrote of in the Song of Solomon ( Song of Solomon 6:13). The fact that David did not have sexual relations with this “very beautiful” young woman ( 1 Kings 1:4) IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT SHOWS THAT HIS PHYSICAL POWERS WERE NOW WEAK. David had been sexually active, but now his sexual powers were depleted. This shows that it was time for a more energetic man to reign.” (Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable on 1 Kings 1:1-2 – online source)
And
John Gill’s Exposition of the Whole Bible:
“Verse 4
And the damsel was very fair,…. And so very agreeable to the king to be in his presence, and wait upon him, and take things of her hand, as well as lie with him: and cherished the king; enlivened his spirits by her amiable countenance, her graceful behaviour, and tender care of him, and especially by bedding with him: and ministered to him; serving him with her own hands whatever he took for his sustenance: but the king knew her not; as a man knows his wife; which shows that she was his wife, and that it would not have been criminal in him had he known her; but this is observed, not to point at the chastity of David, BUT HIS FEEBLENESS, and loss of desire after women, and that the damsel remained a virgin; and that was the ground of Adonijah’s request, and his hope of succeeding.” (John Gill’s Exposition of the Whole Bible on Kings 1:4 – online source)
There are more commentaries here:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/21/exploring-1-kings-14-knew-her-not-king-davids-12-year-old-bride/
DAVID MARRIED HER. The reason why he didnt have sexual relations was due to his old age and BEING WEAK, unable to get his thing up. Your assumption that he didnt have sexual intercourse due him being “decent”, is just smoke screen to hide the truth from people. The fact of the matter is David married her and she was PLACED IN DAVID’S BOSOM EVERY NIGHT. Was he decent when David slept with another man’s wife and send her husband in battle field to be killed?
And then the vile creature Shammy-sham-sham states:
/////Therefore, here is my challenge to this Muhammadan and his cronies. I will take shahadah and have my spouse circumcised in accord with Muhammad’s sunna if he and his fellow idolaters can show me from the text where it says Abishag was 12 years old./////////////
Be a man and accept the truth if the evidence is in your face. But you’re a vile creature, you have no soul. You get orgasm out of bashing other faiths. Just shows how rotten your “soul” is.
EVIDENCE THAT ABISHAG WAS 12 WHEN SHE MARRIED 70-YEAR-OLD DAVID:
The Hebrew word used to describe Abishag’s age is “Na’arah” (נַעֲרָה). This word according to classical ancient Rabbis refers to girls who are no older than 12 years old. Let’s read the text:
“1 Now when King David was old, and stricken in years, they covered him with clothes, but no heat came unto him.
2 Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a YOUNG (NA’ARAH) virgin, and let her stand before the king, and cherish him: and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the King may get heat.
3 So they sought for a fair YOUNG (NA’ARAH) maid throughout all the coasts of Israel, and found one Abishag a Shunammite, and BROUGHT HER TO THE KING.” – 1 Kings 1-3 (1599 Geneva Bible (GNV))
Professor Judith Romney Wegner comments:
“12. Mishnaic law, ‘adult daughter’ (bogeret) means one who has reached the age of twelve-and-a-half years and a day. Between the AGES OF TWELVE AND TWELVE-AND-A-HALF she is a ‘maiden’ (NA’ARAH), liable to keep precepts of Torah but not yet emancipated. Unless married off by her father during this six-month period (as normally happens), she will acquire full autonomy at the end of it.” (Jewish Women in Historical Perspective [Second edition: Wayne State University Press, Detroit, 1998] by Judith Romney Wegner, page 95)
Anglican Priest Herbert Danby:
“1. Cf. Arak. 3:4.
2.Cf. B. K. 8:1.
3. The fifty shekels enjoined in Deut. 22:29.
4. Less than twelve years old.
5. Her father may sell her as a slave.
6. By her violator or seducer.
7. Heb. NAARAH, AGED TWELVE TO TWELVE AND A HALF.
8. Heb. Bogereth, more than twelve and a half.” (The Mishnah: Translated from the Hebrew with Introduction and Brief Explanatory Notes [Hendrickson Publishers Marketing, LLC, 2011] by Herbert Danby, page 249)
AND:
Mary F. Foskett Wake Forest Kahle Professor of Religion, her studies are the New Testament, she says the word ‘Na’arah’ refers to someone who is twelve and a half years old:
“Prescriptions concerning bride-price reveal that virgin females were afforded a higher value than females who were presumed to be sexually experienced. They also provide us with a glimpse of how the Mishnah often understands the place of minor daughters. According to M. Nid. 5/7 and M. Qid. 2.1, a father can claim the fruit of his minor daughter’s labor, annul her vows, and arrange her marriage.
Upon reaching the age of twelve and one-half, however, a daughter no longer remains subject to her father’s dominion (M. Nid. 5.7). She either passes the jurisdiction of her betrothed (or spouse) gains legal autonomy. Given the norm of marriage that permeates the Mishnah, the latter case was likely expected to remain in the minority. Ideally, minor daughters were both constrained by patriarchal authority and attributed sexual and reproductive power. As Wegner observes,
‘the young girl possesses one salient characteristic: she is a sexual chattel. Nearly all references to the girl-child under twelve (qetannah) or THE PUBESCENT GIRL BETWEEN TWELVE AND TWELVE AND ONE-HALF YEARS (NAARAH) – unlike references to minor sons- speak directly or indirectly of her sexuality, with particular emphasis on her virginity.’” (A Virgin Conceived: Mary and Classical Representations of Virginity [Indian University Press, Bloomington & Indianapolis, 2002] by Mary F. Foskett page 48)
More quotes on the word Na’arah in the link:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/09/17/king-davids-marriage-to-12-year-old-abishag-bible/
So as we see ladies and getlement, here I have proven from ANCIENT to contemporary sources that Abishag was 12 years old. Na’arah refers to a girl who is no older than 12.
Shamoun will you accept Islam???
Shamoun continues his drivel:
/////////I will also do the same if this deceitful Muhammadan can show me where it says Dinah was 3-7 years old when Jacob married her off,////////////
Here is a CHALLENGE TO YOU Shamoun, disprove the evidence I have presented in this article, where i show from the BIBLE itself that Dinah was married off at the of 3-7 by Jacob:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/02/bible-how-old-was-dinah-when-she-was-married-to-shechem/
You cant disprove anything, because your scripture says Dinah was 3-7 when married off. If you reject this inerrant “scripture”, you will be called a heretic.
What did we learn from here ladies and gentlemen? Before you write anything responding to someone, try and READ all of their arguments and evidence in the article before you make a clown of yourself, like Shamoun did here…
Ouch!!
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Interesting how Shamoun didn’t dare bring up the fact that his Jesus, who is god of the Old Testament allowed/permitted marriage/rape of prepubescent girls in numbers 31:18:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/07/a-detailed-historical-examination-of-numbers-3118/
…
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“…EVEN HAVE SEX WITH HER! OUCH!”
so if a biblical prophet feel up a “taf” then it isn’t wrong?
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since you are an apologist and so is flying pir, i think the verse should be analysed by reddit biblical academia
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/
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“or that the blessed mother of our risen lord…”
how many natures did mary give birth to ? 2 natures, 1 person?
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I read that Jewish girls usually married around 15 or 16.
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A 12th century rabbi has no binding authority on Christians in any century. It just proves that a 12 century non believing Jewish Rabbi was perverted as a 7th century non believing Arab pagan.
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And you have no authority either as a twenty first century non believing Islamophobe
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But I am a believing Islamophobe. But one thing I am not is a believing Muslim who follows a man who had sex with a 9 year old pre pubescent girl nor am I a Jew who promotes having sex with a 3 year old infant. Something you seem to be.
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Muhammad did not have intercourse with a prepubescent girl, she was physiologically a woman. Many NT scholars think Mary was just 12 when she married a much older Jospeh. In the west today he would be arrested for child rape.
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Your religion as a whole is based on books written by those who promotes having sex with 3 . Take it or leave it.
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9 years old is not a fully developed woman, and there is a big difference between 9 and 12 years old, as there is a big difference between 12 and 16 years old, and a big difference between 16 and 2 years old.
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So you support an older man having sex with a 12 year old? Like I said that is RAPE in today’s world. Methinks you are just an Inconsistent hypocrite
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Alex ! Answer the facts in your own bible , and don’t try to give a lecture about how the difference is between 9 &12 !
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Williams, as long as you associate yourself with such filth and garbage you will have no integrity or honor in the sight of non-Muhammadans. You need to disassociate yourself from such sewage since you are better than flying ibn muta, YahyaSlime, Yusufforsale and ijaz daddy issues Ahmad.
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No answer so far, mr the one who is so busy in loving his enemies and not resisting evil !
=====================
Ask Lebanese Christians when the girls get married in the villages.
It’s a challenge ! MA and CP are clowns.
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Abdullah its not 6 years old and they don’t consummate the marriage at 9
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Accruing to reliable sources she was 9 and sexually mature
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Answer the ” problem” in your bible and don’t try to be clever!
=========
My challenge is for Christians arabs who are clowns
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Sam Actually I believe I have the respect if a number of Christians including ministers and theologians who know me personally, maybe it is the right wing American fundamentalists who detest me. I can certainly live with that.
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Paul Williams wrote….
“Accruing to reliable sources she was 9 and sexually mature ”
Yah disgusting really disgusting
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Mere emotions.
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yes I have a visceral emotional response to anyone thinking that a 9 year old could be sexually mature.
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It’s a biological reality dear boy. Your views are based on emotion and prejudice.
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Paul no its not. Do you also think 9 year old boys are sexually mature?
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No boys by definition are not sexually mature. Let me test your general knowledge: what was the usual age for getting married in biblical times?
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Williams did you even read my thorough reply to Jonathan where I proved FROM YOUR OWN MOST RELIABLE MUSLIM SOURCES AND BROWN’S OWN CLAIMS that Aisha WAS NOT SEXUALLY AND PHYSICALLY MATURE when your 54 year old profit had sex with her?
Second, how does Mary’s conceiving a child while still a virgin justify a 54 year old man having sex with a minor, and whose religion virtually sanctions pedophilia and pederasty since it permits grown men to have sex with premature young girls?
Now can you be so kind and provide the historical documentation that Mary was a prepubescent minor not ready for marriage and that Joseph was a 54 year old man when he was betrothed to her?
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You have not proved your point at all Sam. Muhammad had intercourse with his wife at an appropriate age at that time.
Tell me: are you comfortable with 12 year old females being married to much older men? In the US that would be rape.
So are you an apologist for rape now?
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LOL so 9 year old girls are sexual mature but 9 year old boys are not. How did you come up with that?
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You are SO thick lol, you just dont get it.
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We got that you are so loving for your enemies ! Could you answer now ?
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Well thank God I am thick and don’t get it. Getting sexually aroused by a 9 year old girl is something I definitely don’t want to get. Maybe 9 year old girls do it for you and other Muslims, but I like an actual WOMAN.
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Do you get aroused by 12 years olds Alex? Your obsession suggests you might
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Alex, what about the Jewish prophets whom you are obsessed quoting from their books to prove that your all loving god died for your sins so that you can realese your filthy mouth and judge others?
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Let me try this again Williams.
1. I did prove my point BY USING BROWN’S OWN ARGUMENTS AND CLAIMS, AND QUOTING YOUR MOST AUTHORITATIVE MUSLIM SOURCES.
2. I didn’t appeal to the standards of the US or modern societies to make my case, BUT TO THE VERY STANDARDS MENTIONED BY BROWN THAT ALL ANCIENT CULTURES PLACED THE AGE OF MARRIAGE AT 12 OR OLDER, OR AT PUBERTY. And according TO THIS STANDARD Muhammad stands condemned as a pedophile who committed rape on a minor SINCE YOUR OWN SOURCES PROVE THAT AISHA WAS NEITHER TWELVE NOR PUBESCENT WHEN HE SLEPT WITH HER.
3. I challenged you to quote a source THAT SAYS THAT MARY WAS 12 AND THAT SHE WAS PREPUBESCENT.
4. I further challenged you to quote a source WHICH SHOWS THAT JOSEPH WAS OLD ENOUGH TO BE HER GRAND FATHER WHEN HE GOT ENGAGED TO MARY.
So stop with the red herrings and the straw men and deal with my actual claims.
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you have proved nothing of the kind Sam.
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200 Thousand Christian Children Were Married Before 10 In India
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/01/200-thousand-christian-children-were-married-before-10-in-india/
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This does it for you Paul?
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Or what about this one Paul, I bet Mohamed would be very pleased.
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did moses grab hundreds of “tafs” likes these?
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didn’t jesus krist who’s person is in unity with two natures suckle his mother and exist her private?
how old was the girl in isaiah, the one who was called almah?
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quote :
The word for “girl” here is “Taf” which comes from the Hebrew “Taftaf” for how a little girl skips. They are talking about 5 year olds here.
end quote
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Edward your comments lead me to beleive that you have a problem with having sex with a 9 year old.
Is that the case? These pictures of 9 year old girls did not sexually arouse you.
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Alex why not campaign to overturn the rape laws to make it possible for Christians like you to marry 12 year olds – in line with biblical practice..
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Paul I’m not a pedaphile like you are who thinks a 9 year old is sexually mature. Thats why
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“Do you get aroused by 12 years olds Alex? Your obsession suggests you might”
they wouldn’t care anyway since they believe their preying on your children has already been atoned.
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“Rebecca was born AFTER Mount Moria incident. ”
This may be true but what does it prove? She could also have been born before this incident.
Isaac was a “lad” at the time of the Moriah event. So he could have not have been older than his teens and he could have been younger. But old enough to carry the wood for the sacrifice.
In this case even if Rebecca had been born at this time there would not have been much difference in their ages. Rebecca could have been over 20 years of age.
How old can a “lad” be?
A 37 year old lad is ridiculous.
Genesis 22 v 5:
And Abraham said unto his young men………I and the lad will go yonder and worship,……
It’s imperative in my view that Isaac was pre-pubescent at the time of Moriah because this would symbolize purity and innocence. Otherwise God would not have accepted his being a type of Christ.
Flying pir also claims: “Well, according to the Bible, Isaac was 37-years-old when he went up on Mount Moriah with his father. Rebecca was born straight after Isaac and Abraham, came down from the Mount Moriah and they went to Beersheba. ”
That’s pure conjecture and can’t be proven from the text. Sam Shamoun was right in what he said.
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Did you read the article?
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” Rebecca could have been over 20 years of age.”
at the time of their marriage, theoretically if not realistically.
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Abraham envisiges his son marrying a woman not a toddler!
Gen 24 v 5 And the servant said unto him, Peradventure the woman will not be willing to follow me unto this land: must I needs bring thy son again unto the land from whence thou camest?
6 And Abraham said unto him, Beware thou that thou bring not my son thither again. 7The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father’s house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.
8 And if the woman will not be willing to follow thee, then thou shalt be clear from this my oath: only bring not my son thither again. 9 And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
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Alex R
October 27, 2016 • 4:30 pm
Edward your comments lead me to beleive that you have a problem with having sex with a 9 year old.
Is that the case? These pictures of 9 year old girls did not sexually arouse you.
I say;
Jesus the second person of your God head or God commanded Abraham to have sex with his slave who is not his wife and gave birth to illegitimate child i.e. Jesus allowed his prophet to commit adultery on a young maid servant.
Jesus then became annoyed with his own command of letting his prophet Abraham to be a pedophile on a young maid servant to give birth to illegitimate child and refused the child a covenant but gave covenant to another child.
Jesus as God allows adultery, pedophilia and rape and incest in the Bible and it is horrible for Jesus to do that.
Prophet Mohammed married a young woman no God or any human being at his time has criticised. People continue to marry young women until the age limit was cut as recent as in the middle of the 1900s. Christians, English Kings, Jews, Hindus, Muslims etc. marry young women according the puberty as the Bible said.
This pedophilia nonsense has been refuted long ago and even Dr. James White, Ken Temple, Sam Shamoun and most Christians have stopped that nonsense,. May be you are new to apologetics.
Dr. James White said no one blamed prophet Mohammed for marrying his young woman including God. But your God Jesus Christ has blamed Prophet Abraham for having sex with his young slave girl and refuse the son a covenant that befits him.
Prophet Mohammed married widows, older women, women from different tribes and you do not talk about them but you talk about the only one who no one at his time has criticised him about her.
Prophet Mohammed is not a pedophile because all his wives as a prophet were either older than him, widows or married before except one. A rational person will not call this pedophilia. A pedophile is a person who always has interest in children and our Prophet does not have interest in children but grown ups including Ayisha who was at her puberty before he married her.
Some Christians like Dr. James White will tell you stop this nonsense and Sam Shamoun has taken that advise and has now stopped that nonsense of pedophilia.
Thanks.
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Sam,
There are many hadith which contradict that hadith that says Aisha was 9 when the marriage was consummated.
So it’s not honest and in good faith to use this hadith.
Also, Aisha was a politically symbol in between the Sunni-Shia rivalry. There were some Sunnis who would have wanted to fabricate that hadith because they wanted to show how marriage to Aisha was preordained by God and also to show that she spent a lot of time in the company of the blessed Prophet of God Almighty.
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Man, Shamoun’s projections on the Prophet(saw) are extremely disturbing.
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Where is my comment? Facts about Momo to much for you to handle, I can provide the references if that helps, but you probably already know how degenerate your Muhammad was.
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Was he more degenerate than Sam Shamoun?
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Abdullah
October 27, 2016 • 9:55 pm
Did you read the article?
What’s your point?
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My point is this :
” is the significance of Isaac’s age at the time of his sacrifice? Well, according to the Bible, Isaac was 37-years-old when he went up on Mount Moriah with his father. Rebecca was born straight after Isaac and Abraham, came down from the Mount Moriah and they went to Beersheba. Isaac was married to Rebecca when he was 40-years-old (Genesis 25:20). Since that is the case, this would mean Rebecca, was married off when she was 3 (or 4) years old. This would render Rabbi Rashi’s statement and others of Rebecca being 3-years-old when married to Isaac, as true when we look at Genesis account closely ”
Any answer ?
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@Abdullah I’m not sure if you will ever gonna get an answer on your point because it’s clearly says Issac was 40 years old when he married a 3/4 year old Rebecca and that’s troublesome for secular minded Christians that’s why they are agonizing and going crazy.
As mentioned in the article, Rabbi Rashi mentioned her age as 3 and careful analysis reveal she was 3 years old so I don’t think any answer is gonna come though but Let’s see if anyone has any answer!!
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Nawaz
Where in the bible does it say that rebecca was 3?
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Nawaz
Maybe you want to have a go at answering these questions…..
Do you view mohammed’s marriage to a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9 as exemplary behaviour? Is it – as your god says – “beautiful” conduct? Would you have sex with a 9 year-old? Would you let your 9 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?
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@Graham Read the article carefully and the it’s obvious that she was no more than 3 years Old so Isaac married a 3/4 year old girl so as I said to Brother Abdullah about the question he’s asking to you guys and no answer is being given because there’s no answer because it’s in your scripture and same way David married a 12 year Old girl, Mary was 12 when she married 90 year old Joseph and list goes on!
What is the age of marriage given in the Bible?
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Nawaz
You are dodging. I asked you to show me where in the bible it says rebecca was 3? And why don’t you have a go at answering my questions?
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@ Graham As I said why don’t you read the article and examine it and the story is in Genesis, her age is 3 when she was married off to Isaac. Go read the story and tell us her age when she was married to Isaac if you claim she was not 3/4 years old?
Also, What is the age of Marriage given in the Bible? Don’t give me western secular standards and judgement
Christians consider Bible as the word of God so God must have mentioned an age in the Bible for marriage?
The western secular standards have recently came into effect so I respectfully ask again what was the age of Marriage in the ancient biblical times?
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Nawaz
I’ve read the bible and see no evidence that Rebecca was 3. Religious speculation doesn’t interest me.
Also, you are still dodging.
Please answer my questions…..
Do you view mohammed’s marriage to a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9 as exemplary behaviour? Is it – as your god says – “beautiful” conduct? Would you have sex with a 9 year-old? Would you let your 9 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?
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@Graham I’m very disappointed
As I said why don’t you read the article and examine it and the story is in Genesis, her age is 3 when she was married off to Isaac. Go read the story and tell us her age when she was married to Isaac if you claim she was not 3/4 years old?
Also, What is the age of Marriage given in the Bible? Don’t give me western secular standards and judgement
Christians consider Bible as the word of God so God must have mentioned an age in the Bible for marriage?
The western secular standards have recently came into effect so I respectfully ask again what was the age of Marriage in the ancient biblical times?
Why don’t you at least enlighten me about Rebecca age if you know and how old she was in your scholarly opinion? Unless you answer, I will not talk about anything whatsoever!!!
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Nawaz
I’m disappointed too.
All you have to do is show me where in the bible it says that rebecca was 3. Why is that so hard?
Also, I notice that you haven’t answered my questions……
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Graham what was the biblical norm for the age when people got married?
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Paul
Your question is a deflection.
The biblical age is not significant. Why?
Christians are not obliged to follow the example of the biblical prophets in “whatsoever” they give us, nor are we obliged to view their behaviour as exemplary or “beautiful conduct.”
Muslims have the problem – you are commanded to follow the example of mohammed (he had sex with a child) and to believe that his conduct was “beautiful.”
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Graham why do you run away from questions about the Bible? I detect a weakness in your position.
Let us focus on the biblical norm. I have read historians say marriage usually took place when a person reached puberty. Nowhere in the Bible does God condemn this norm, it is just accepted by all the prophets and Jesus. I’ve read that Mary was probably 12 years old when she married Joseph. Maybe even younger.
The New Testament says this:
‘All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness’
Do you see why you might be accused of inconsistency?
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You are obligated to condemn , joke, make fun, and express your objections against the jewish prophets whom you’re obseesed qouting from their books to validate your polytheistic religion . Don’t you think?!
This topic shows how naked you are.
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Abdullah
That is a logically incoherent.
Where did I say that?
You guys are the ones who are making things up about the bible and the prophets – again, I ask you to show me where in the bible it says that rebecca was 3?
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Paul Williams
“Graham why do you run away from questions about the Bible? I detect a weakness in your position.
Let us focus on the biblical norm. I have read historians say marriage usually took place when a person reached puberty. Nowhere in the Bible does God condemn this norm, it is just accepted by all the prophets and Jesus. I’ve read that Mary was probably 12 years old when she married Joseph. Maybe even younger.
The New Testament says this:
‘All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness’
Do you see why you might be accused of inconsistency?”
Your argument is pathetic.
There is nothing in that NT quote that comes even remotely close to teaching that god commands christians to imitate the prophets.
You are still obviously deflecting.
Nowhere am I commanded to follow the example of anyone who has sex with a 9 year old.
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“Christians are not obliged to follow the example of the biblical prophets in “whatsoever” they give us, nor are we obliged to view their behaviour as exemplary or “beautiful conduct.”
hebrews:
32And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised;
faith gave david the power to butcher and kill.
dave is not fit for the earth according to the book of hebrews .
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Edrward
What is your point? So we should imitate the faith shown by the biblical prophets is – for you – green light to molest children?
Sicko.
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“So we should imitate the faith shown by the biblical prophets is – for you – green light to molest children?”
“imitate the faith”
ass, you are imitating the faith of killers and murderers and ones who had concubines .
do you not see the plank in your own eye?
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edward
And you are imitating the conduct of your violent child-sexing prophet.
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“hey give us, nor are we obliged to view their behaviour as exemplary or “beautiful conduct.””
hebrews said that they conquered because of their faith.
do you not see the plank in your own eyes?
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test
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You passed
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thanks
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look at when a christian priest rapes young children, the children show signs of psychological damage.
lets read the stories of sexually abused children
lets then compare to lady ayesha
what signs do you see that she as a child was getting sexually abused in any of her writings ?
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@ Paul Williams He will not give any answer because It’s very troublesome for him to admit that Isaac married a 3 year old girl and the standards he applies will make him a Pe******** so don’t even imagine any answer about it.
Judge not others as ye be Judged, so If I apply the standards of Graham so that will make Isaac the ancestor of Israelite and ancestor of Jesus a Pedophile and so does David and others but more troublesome is Jesus who is G-d according to Christians and Mary ( the Mother of God) was impregnated by his own Son. Eww That’s disgusting Christian God impregnating a young girl and being born from Her. That’s some incestual relationship which the Christian God had with an innocent Jewish Girl so Holy Ghost is a Pedophile and Jesus the product of Pedophilia and as they are 1 God so it makes him a Pedophile…
That’s really disgusting and make the Christian God a Pedophile and Jesus impregnating his own Mother!
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Nawaz
I’ll try to make this as simple as possible.
Show me where in the bible it says that rebbecca was 3?
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“Eww That’s disgusting Christian God impregnating a young girl and being born from Her. That’s some incestual relationship which the Christian God had with an innocent Jewish Girl so Holy Ghost is a Pedophile and Jesus the product of Pedophilia and as they are 1 God so it makes him a Pedophile…
That’s really disgusting and make the Christian God a Pedophile and Jesus impregnating his own Mother!”
my question to graham. when did mary discover that she popped out god?
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Graham
October 28, 2016 • 8:54 am
Nawaz
I’ll try to make this as simple as possible.
Show me where in the bible it says that rebbecca was 3?
I say;
Show me where the Quran says that Ayisha was not at puberty?
The Quran and the Bible says a woman must be at puberty before marriage sex, and Ayisha was at puberty before marriage and sex.
The age limit to 12,13,14,15,16,17,18 etc. was modern standards that was cut as recent as the in the mid 1900s and the age limit is not Biblical.
Biblical is puberty and it is not our prophet alone who married young woman but Christians and Jews too until recently when the law of age limit was passed.
It is UNWISE to insist using modern laws for the people of the past and single only one of them. Dr. James White is a very WISE Christian and will not use the age limit of today to accuse anyone except an unwise Christian.
The Jews, Christians and Pagans at the time of prophet Mohammed blamed him and accuse him on so many things but non of them accused him of pedophilia. It is UNWISE to use modern standard of age limit cut in the mid 1900s to accuse our prophet.
That is why we are wise as Muslims not to judge any prophet at his time but Christians will let us retaliate by saying that Jesus committed adultery by allowing his prophet Abraham to have sex with his unmarried young slave girl to give birth to illegitimate child and Jesus became furious and refuse the child a covenant but instead gave it to another child.
Jesus is furious for his adultery. When Sam Shamoun is attacking Islam, he is unwise to forget all these incest in the Bible. Dr. James White is wise not to attack Islam on this issue but on different issues.
Thanks.
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Intellect.
Islamic practice is not based on the quran. Islaimic practice is mostly derived from hadith literature. the ahdith literature says clearly that Aisha was 9 years old when mohammed had sex with her.
DO you think that this is “beautiful conduct”?
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Graham
October 28, 2016 • 8:24 am
Paul
Your question is a deflection.
The biblical age is not significant. Why?
Christians are not obliged to follow the example of the biblical prophets in “whatsoever” they give us, nor are we obliged to view their behaviour as exemplary or “beautiful conduct.”
Muslims have the problem – you are commanded to follow the example of mohammed (he had sex with a child) and to believe that his conduct was “beautiful.”
I say;
Because Jesus example and his prophets example are horrible i.e. incest, rape, murder, adultery etc. in the Bible so you feel you are not obliged to follow that horrible things in the Bible.
I am telling you today you are obliged to follow the example of Biblical prophets but you do not know except “knowing” someone’s scripture to insult.
2 Timothy 3:16 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
New Living Translation
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right
Graham, you do not know that you are obliged to use ALL SCRIPTURE i.e. the incest and adultery of prophet Abraham and others for righteousness.
You put all these aside and attack Islam on something you do not know. It is pathetic.
Bible
All Scripture is God-Breathed
…15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
You are obliged to commit adultery like prophet Abraham in the Bible committing adultery by having sex with his young maid and given birth to illegitimate child and Jesus allowed that to happen and later Jesus became furious and refused the illegitimate child a covenant.
Thanks.
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Intellect
Paul tried that one. It doesn’t work.
There is no indication from that NT quote that christians are obliged to view all actions by the prophets as “beautiful conduct” for all time.
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Sorry, but Jewish had always set the age of marriage at 12 before modern times and we don’t know or have any proof that the law was enforce. Jewish girls usually married around 12-17, so Mary was around 12-17. 15 or 16 was the typical age to get married in ancient Israel. The evidences are below.
Jewish Marriage In Antiquity by Michael Satlow
Every Day Life In Bible Times by Arthur W.Klinck (chapter 8)
Oxford Encyclopedia of the Bible and Gender Studies
edited by Julia M. O’Brien (pg 50-54)
The Reign Of God Is Such as These: A Socio-Literary Analysis of Daughters in the Gospel of Mark, by Sharon Betsworth (pg 54) suggest that Jewish girls married around 15.
Women’s Evangelical Commentary: New Testament
edited by Dorothy Kelley Patterson, Rhonda Harrington Kelley (pg 2)
Insights from Archaeology
By David A. Fiensy (pg 71 and read the notes)
Children in Early Christian Narrative, by Sharon Betsworth (pg 35)
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@Intellect That’s a reply which is for people with honesty and sincerity but not for Bigots and Trolls.
@Graham Let me allow to proceed further using your standards so in Gen 20:12 Abraham calls Sarah his sister so that makes Isaac an illegitimate child and a Bastard Child because that’s incest so before the problem of Rebecca we have another issue at hand, Abraham having incest with his sister as Gen 20:12 says, remember I’m simply using your standards.
Now going to the start of humanity and Adam and Eve were put on earth and Eve bore children in twins and they cross married so in your standards this was incest and every human came from Adam and Eve so that makes your parents siblings and the children they have can be categorized as Bastard and I’m sure you don’t consider yourself Bastard and a product of incest or do you? According to your standards?
Don’t accuse me of anything, I am simply using your standards and judging them…
More so the Christian God/Jesus impregnated his own mother, now that’s really Disgusting and clear incest which Jesus who is God according to you and Mary the mother of God. This is the ultimate filth which a God can do to his mother!
Remember, I’m applying your standards!
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NAwaz
Your backflipping is exemplary.
Just answer the simple question that I posed.
WHere does it say in the bible that rebecca was years old?
It really is not hard.
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@Graham Let me allow to proceed further using your standards so in Gen 20:12 Abraham calls Sarah his sister so that makes Isaac an illegitimate child and a Bastard Child because that’s incest so before the problem of Rebecca we have another issue at hand, Abraham having incest with his sister as Gen 20:12 says, remember I’m simply using your standards.
Now going to the start of humanity and Adam and Eve were put on earth and Eve bore children in twins and they cross married so in your standards this was incest and every human came from Adam and Eve so that makes your parents siblings and the children they have can be categorized as Bastard and I’m sure you don’t consider yourself Bastard and a product of incest or do you? According to your standards?
Don’t accuse me of anything, I am simply using your standards and judging them…
More so the Christian God/Jesus impregnated his own mother, now that’s really Disgusting and clear incest which Jesus who is God according to you and Mary the mother of God. This is the ultimate filth which a God can do to his mother!
Remember, I’m applying your standards!
Do you consider yourself a product of incest in light of your standards?
If so then I will have nothing to say to a guy who in his view born of an incest.
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Nawaz
Now all you are trying to do is unload with all kinds of non-sequiturs.
Please show me where the age of rebecca is explicitly claimed to be 3? If it is in the bible, it should be easy to find.
And why won’t you answer my very easy questions? Do you think that havng sex with a 9 year old is beautiful conduct?
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Graham
October 28, 2016 • 9:42 am
Intellect.
Islamic practice is not based on the quran. Islaimic practice is mostly derived from hadith literature. the ahdith literature says clearly that Aisha was 9 years old when mohammed had sex with her.
DO you think that this is “beautiful conduct”?
I say;
Where in the Bible or Quran does it say marrying a 9 year old is a bad conduct? I said the age limit is modern standard and it is unwise to use it for the olden days people.
Until the mid 1900s Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. marry younger women. In Islam the woman must be at puberty and there are more women who became puberty at 8, 9, 10, etc. depending on their times, anthropology, development, etc.
Do not judge the prophets on modern law age limit because it was not there but judge them according to their standards and no Jew, Christian or Pagan at that time accuse our prophet of pedophilia but they accused him clearly on other things.
Our prophets married older women than him and all of his wives as a prophet are older except Ayisha and she got married when she was at puberty. The age does not matter but the puberty and that is what the Bible and the Quran said.
You said;
Intellect.
Islamic practice is not based on the quran. Islaimic practice is mostly derived from hadith literature. the ahdith literature says clearly that Aisha was 9 years old when mohammed had sex with her.
DO you think that this is “beautiful conduct”?
I say;
Christian practice is based on the Bible.
Do you think that Jesus allowing prophet Abraham to rape his slave and have sex with her and produce illegitimate child is “beautiful conduct”?
Notes:
2 Timothy 3:16 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
New Living Translation
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right
Thanks.
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Depending on what stage of puberty. There are like five stages of puberty and girls usually finish puberty around 14-17. Sex mostly occurs a few years after puberty.¹ Plus what about waiting until the girl is mentally mature? Stop thinking that physically maturity = mentally maturity.
¹ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/context-and-variation/interrogating-claims-about-natural-sexual-behavior-more-on-deep-thinking-hebephile/
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Graham
October 28, 2016 • 10:10 am
Intellect
Paul tried that one. It doesn’t work.
There is no indication from that NT quote that christians are obliged to view all actions by the prophets as “beautiful conduct” for all time
I say;
May be you do not know how to read or you are refusing to follow your Bible that said clearly
————————
Parallel Verses
New International Version
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
New Living Translation
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right
—————————-
Why are you running from the conducts of your own prophets? Because it is bad.
You have the guts to say someone’s prophets conduct is bad. It is unwise to do that. Dr. James White is warning you Christians to stop doing that but sometimes he does that any way.
Thanks.
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@Graham, you are making a secularist argument but you are not making an argument of relevance for religion. You say the problem is that Muslims are allowed to marry young girls because the Prophet did it. Therefore it could happen that Muslims today do it. As for the fact that Isaac did it according to the Bible it will not cause Christians doing it today. This might be right but it is only a worthless secular argument.
But as a Christian you haven’t solved the religious problem which is: If you call this pedophilia and you say this is evil and Isaac did it and your God approved it, it will make your God evil. It does not matter whether Christians will do something today or at any time. Your God is supporting pedophilia according to your definition. You show your filthy infidelity by refusing to be consequent in your beliefs.
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Rider
Are you really trying to convince yourself that the issue of whether to follow the example of god’s prophets is not a religious concern?
Where does god approve pedophilia in the OT or NT? We know that allah said that mohammed’s conduct was “beautiful”, but nowhere in the bible is there any indication that the god of Abraham sanctioned pedophilia.
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@Graham Let me allow to proceed further using your standards so in Gen 20:12 Abraham calls Sarah his sister so that makes Isaac an illegitimate child and a Bastard Child because that’s incest so before the problem of Rebecca we have another issue at hand, Abraham having incest with his sister as Gen 20:12 says, remember I’m simply using your standards.
Now going to the start of humanity and Adam and Eve were put on earth and Eve bore children in twins and they cross married so in your standards this was incest and every human came from Adam and Eve so that makes your parents siblings and the children they have can be categorized as Bastard and I’m sure you don’t consider yourself Bastard and a product of incest or do you? According to your standards?
Don’t accuse me of anything, I am simply using your standards and judging them…
More so the Christian God/Jesus impregnated his own mother, now that’s really Disgusting and clear incest which Jesus who is God according to you and Mary the mother of God. This is the ultimate filth which a God can do to his mother!
Remember, I’m applying your standards!
Do you consider yourself a product of incest in light of your standards?
If so then I will have nothing to say to a guy who in his view born of an incest.
I suppose if you have siblings then do you consider them born out of incest? If you’re married then do you consider you have married your sister and any children from her would be called Bastard as it will be under incest according to your standards?
I will keep asking same question again and again and will add more and more into it using your logic and standard until you answer!!!!!
Do you also consider the G-d you worship as a Pedophile and which impregnated her own mother and born as a Bastard and a child of Divine incest, Should I say it that way?
Do enlighten me on your thoughts because my whole argument is based on your standards so I’m simply judging things from your point of view?
I didn’t wanted to use filthy language but for some people, it’s the only way so I wont hold back anything until I get an answer based on your standard.
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In general the question of young marriage is a question of the benefit. In the case of the Prophet’s marriage to Aisha there was a clear benefit in it. However usually it might be better that there is no too big difference in age.
With the puberty the age of marriage is reached. However, at what age it will be wise to marry depends on the particular society. In this perverted westernized world children are less mature than they used to be. So it is clearly no good idea to marry at young age today.
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@Graham Where are you? Are you not going to answer me about my whole argument based on your standards? At least, have the courage to answer here according to your standards and do you accept yourself as a Child of incest?
That’s what your standard make you!
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Nawaz
Your argument was stupid and completely incoherent.
Please show me where it says that rebecca was 3 years old in the bible? Your sorry attempts at changing the subject can’t change the fact that there is no scirptural support for your claims.
Despicable that you continue defend pedophilia.
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Why don’t you tell me what was he age at the time of her marriage to Isaac? If it was not 3 because the story in Genesis suggests she was no more than 3 years old? It’s not rocket science but the only stumble is because it’s embarrassing and troublesome for you because the secular standards not only make Isaac a Pedophile but the Christian God who impregnated his own Mother Mary!
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Nawaz
No, why don’t you tell me – just quote the verse in the bible where it tells us rebecca’s age. You have made up a bunch of nonsense that not found in the bible just to defend your prophet’s pedophilia.
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@Graham The age of Rebecca is deduced from the story given in the bible, that’s why Rabbi Rashi mentions the age of Rebecca as 3 year old at the time of her marriage to Isaac. You can play around your argument but it still does not change the fact that she was 3 as Rabbi Rashi confirms from the bible itself.
If you think she was not 3 then give me the age of Rebecca from the story given in Genesis because her age can be deduced from there and it’s gonna be 3 so that’s worry some for Secular minded Christian.
In the same way is the impregnation of Mother of God from her Son who is also God which is even more troublesome!!
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@Graham Let me simplify for you, Isaac was 37 when the incident of Mount Moriah takes place and at the same time Rebecca is born and Isaac marries Rebecca when he is 40 years old. Now guess the age of Rebecca? It’s an easy Math probably anyone can guess but let’s see can you guess her age?
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Nawaz
Issac is called “a lad” by Abraham and Rebecca speaks to the servant like a fully grown adult – that;s why I don’t follow traditions like the hadith which are man-made speculations.
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Graham
October 28, 2016 • 2:06 pm
Rider
Are you really trying to convince yourself that the issue of whether to follow the example of god’s prophets is not a religious concern?
Where does god approve pedophilia in the OT or NT? We know that allah said that mohammed’s conduct was “beautiful”, but nowhere in the bible is there any indication that the god of Abraham sanctioned pedophilia
I say;
No where in the Quran God of Abraham sanctions pedophilia. In the Bible Jesus sanctioned prophet Abraham to have sex with young slave girl and rape and impregnated her. Later Jesus became annoyed by allowing his prophet to rape and impregnated his slave and Jesus refused to give covenant to the illegitimate child he allowed and it is adultery.
Jesus sanctioned incest by allowing his prophet to have sex with their children and if you do not know it is pedophilia then you do not know what pedophilia means by your God Jesus allowing his prophets to be sleeping with children including their children.
Some Christians including Jerry Falwell’s son and most pastors are asking their congregations to vote for Donald Trump who said himself on various tapes and not one tape but various that he enters into teenage beauty pageants dressing rooms to see their private parts because he is rich.
Christians are following the examples of the Bible where Jesus allows his prophets to commit adultery, incest, rape and produce illegitimate child to vote for Donald Trump who said he grabs MARRIED WOMEN genitals and kisses them and Christians are voting for him because Jesus has commanded more immoral and sexual sins in the Bible. Some Christians see what Trump does to women as nothing compared to Jesus commanding Abraham to rape a young maid and commits adultery, pedophilia and rape.
Our prophet married a woman who reached puberty and the Bible and the Quran did not say marrying 9 year old is a sin but the books stressed on puberty and Ayisha reached her puberty.
Before mid 1900s there was no age limit and it is unwise to use that standard to the people of the past. Jesus impregnated his mother and stays in her womb for 9 months and you call him God. Are you not ashamed of your God coming from the womb of a young woman?
If you are not ashamed of your God coming out from a womb of a young woman he impregnated to become God Man, we are not ashamed for our prophet to MARRY a puberty woman who is 9 year old and non of his contemporaries accused him on that but they did accuse him on other matters.
It is unwise to use modern age limit which is 12 or 14 at certain parts at certain times and 17 at some parts, 16 at some parts of the western world to judge someone in the past.
Thanks
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Intellect
“No where in the Quran God of Abraham sanctions pedophilia”
He calls mohammed’s actions “beautiful conduct” and the ahdith clearly shows mohammed to be a pedophile.
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@Graham Let me simplify for you, Isaac was 37 when the incident of Mount Moriah takes place and at the same time Rebecca is born and Isaac marries Rebecca when he is 40 years old. Now guess the age of Rebecca? It’s an easy Math probably anyone can guess but let’s see can you guess her age?
What i’m quoting is from Genesis so don’t beat around the bushes and answer.
Clearly you’re avoiding the obvious conclusion!! It cannot be more simple than this
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Nawaz
You are so gullible. Read the text more clearly and you will find that your defence of of your prophet’s pedophilia has failed. There is absolutley no time given for rebecca’s birth in the bible…..
Now be brave and be the first muslim to answer my questions…..
Do you view mohammed’s marriage to a 6 year old and having sex with her at 9 as exmplary behaviour? Is it – as your god says – “beautiful” conduct? Would you have sex with a 9 year-old? WOuld you let your 9 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?
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Graham: Would you have sex with a 12 year-old? WOuld you let your 12 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?
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Graham
Yes at the time of prophet Mohammed when there is no age limit and my girl is 9 and at puberty I will give her to 54 Prophet Mohammed like how Abubakar the father of Ayisha, Ayisha mother gave Ayisha to our prophet.
In this modern time if my daughter reaches puberty, I would rather gave her to a honourable person regardless of age rather than allowing her to be having sex with other boys as it is now a days, prostitutions, drug, teenage pregnancies, disrespect, robbery, gang, group sex etc.
Questions to you. Would you allow your child to have sex with a Married prophet Abraham to commit adultery as allowed by Jesus Christ? So that the son becomes illegitimate and Jesus refused that son a covenant.
Thanks.
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Graham
Will you give you let your teenager near Donald Trump? Who is the leader of most Christians right now.
Let me be clear. Not all Christians support Donald Trump but most Christians do and they preach on TV for their Christian followers to vote for a man who said he takes delight in kissing, grabbing MARRIED women genitals and also entering teenage beauty pageants dressing room to see their private parts.
Thanks.
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Paul
“Graham: Would you have sex with a 12 year-old? WOuld you let your 12 year-old daughter marry and have sex with a 54-year old?”
No absolutely not – my religion doesn’t require me to revere a pedophile. Intellect would give his daughter to a 54 year old to have sex, though.
Intellect
“Would you allow your child to have sex with a Married prophet Abraham to commit adultery as allowed by Jesus Christ? So that the son becomes illegitimate and Jesus refused that son a covenant.”
This is so stupid I can’t help but cry. You just said that you would allow your daughter to be sexually abused by an old man – that makes you a danger to society, yet you are trying to legitimize your perverted sanctification of a pedophile by making up some stupid scenario about the bible.
You are a pig.
You would subject your own child to excruciating genital pain and long-term physical, emotional, and psychological damage to appease your god, and worse, a mere human being.
But thanks for laying it all bare for us – your honesty is refreshing and the truth you reveal condemns your religion and its depraved prophet as evil.
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Graham
You said;
This is so stupid I can’t help but cry. You just said that you would allow your daughter to be sexually abused by an old man – that makes you a danger to society, yet you are trying to legitimize your perverted sanctification of a pedophile by making up some stupid scenario about the bible.
You are a pig.
You would subject your own child to excruciating genital pain and long-term physical, emotional, and psychological damage to appease your god, and worse, a mere human being.
But thanks for laying it all bare for us – your honesty is refreshing and the truth you reveal condemns your religion and its depraved prophet as evil.
I say;
I am a creature and not God and I could be a pig and I accept that because pigs are creatures like me. You fool Graham you forgot you blaspheme and insulted your God who said He is One and He is the Only True God.
Graham, you said your God became a creature. This is a sin that will burn you in hell forevever if you do not repent;
Graham, I am a creature like a pig, so I can be a pig and there is no problem but you said your God entered into his creation to love you just like pig, snake, elephants, man, i.e. Emperor Haile Selaissie as Rastafarian God, Sai Baba Hindu God, voodoo snake Gods and a pig God of other idol worshipers.
Graham. You are stupid not to see that by turning me into pig which I am not is an insult but not knowing that it is the same as insulting your own God whom you claim became man which he is not in a vagina of a young 12 year old girl named Mary.
Graham. You are stupid not to see that by turning me into pig which I am not is an insult but not knowing that it is the same as insulting your own God whom you claim became man which he is not in a vagina of a young 12 year old girl named Mary.
You think Your own God Jesus can become whatever he wants i.e. A PIG. The God of Abraham is the ONLY TRUE GOD AND HE IS ONE AND ALONE AND NOTHING IS LIKE HIM according to Jesus. May God forbid, my God cannot become man i.e. creature i.e. a PIG. Your God according to you can become a creature a PiG.
Why insult me as a PiG when your God is a Pig? i.e. Your God became creature and a Pig is creature. Your God came from the tiny vagina of a 12 year old Mary.
Back to topic. The Bible and the Quran did not put any age limit on my daughter but the criteria is that if my daughter is at puberty is fit to marry I can give her to any man of any age if even he is 110 (One hundred and Ten) years old or older. it is up to him and my daughter and there is nothing wrong about that.
You cannot use your modern age limit which started in the mid 1900s against the people of the past. It is unwise to do that.
Thanks.
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“No absolutely not – my religion doesn’t require me to revere a pedophile. Intellect would give his daughter to a 54 year old to have sex, though.”
how old was the opening of the mother of your god when she popped out 2 natures, 1 person ?
when 2 natures , 1 person in unity was suckling , how did mary feel when she learned that god was suckling her?
just think about this. a mother births a god and then suckles it. think about this.
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“Isaac was 37 when the incident of Mount Moriah takes place and at the same time Rebecca is born and Isaac marries Rebecca when he is 40 years old. Now guess the age of Rebecca?”
3 years old.
Now does this make prophet Isaac a pedophile?
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Intellect
You are a groomer of little girls. Go away back to your kiddie porn and I’ll pray for your innocent daughter whom you want to give as a sex gift to your pedo-prophet.
Eric
“Isaac was 37 when the incident of Mount Moriah takes place and at the same time Rebecca is born and Isaac marries Rebecca when he is 40 years old. Now guess the age of Rebecca?”
3 years old.
Now does this make prophet Isaac a pedophile?”
I really expected more from you. Either you guys are extremely gullible or you are dumb – I don’t view you as dumb, so I’m surprised that you have bought into this.
Okay, I’ve toyed with you guys long enough and had my laughs at your expense. Genesis 22:20-24 is quoted to illustrate that Rebbeca was born after Isaac’s redemption on the mount.
Here’s how this Lying Pir-vert guy has made such a fool of you…..
20 Some time later Abraham was told, “Milkah is also a mother; she has borne sons to your brother Nahor: 21 Uz the firstborn, Buz his brother, Kemuel (the father of Aram), 22 Kesed, Hazo, Pildash, Jidlaph and Bethuel.” 23 Bethuel became the father of Rebekah. Milkah bore these eight sons to Abraham’s brother Nahor. 24 His concubine, whose name was Reumah, also had sons: Tebah, Gaham, Tahash and Maakah.
This is Lying Pir-vert’s proof that rebecca was 3, but as you can see, it says nothing of the sort – it merely says that Abraham was told at this time of the births of these people, not that they were born at that time.
Even worse, if we follow Lying Pir-vert’s reasoning to its logical conclusion we would have to say that Rebecca was born at the same time as her father Bethuel…..
Milkah is also a mother; she has borne sons to your brother …………..Uz the firstborn, Buz his brother, Kemuel (the father of Aram), 22 Kesed, Hazo, Pildash, Jidlaph and Bethuel.” 23 Bethuel became the father of Rebekah.
LOL!! You’ve been had by Lying Pir-vert.
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// but as you can see, it says nothing of the sort – it merely says that Abraham was told at this time of the births of these people, not that they were born at that time.//
Thats a mere opinion but I don’t think you are more authoritative than Rashi midrashic comments that Rebecca was three at the time of her marriage with Isaac.
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There’s no reason to consider the rabbinic speculations as authoritative – just like the hadith is man-made speculation, I find little credibility in either.
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Rashi spent his entire life studying Torah in original language, scholars regard his commentary of TaNaKH as a masterpiece and his works continue to be studied today. Rashi is authoritative.
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That’s a weak appeal to authority.
The plain text clearly shows that these verses give absolutely no indication of when these events took place – the events are merely being conveyed. Lying Pir-vert has merely proven that Bethual and his daughter Rebecca were born on the same day. LOL
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The main news was Bethuel fathered rebecca uvethuel yalad et ribkah וּבְתוּאֵ֖ל יָלַ֣ד אֶת־, thats the plain reading of the text as understood by those jewish scholars who really knew the hebrew bible.
So you really think Isaac was a phedophile?
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Eric
Rubbish. The plain text relates information without giving any details of chronology – unless you believe that rebecca was born on the same day as her own parent (which would make her parent one day old when he parented his own daughter), then you have to abandon your claims. It is embarrassing.
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You dismissed Rashi the one of the most authoritative sage of Torah commenter as rubbish, seriously?.
According to Rashi, sure there was chronology.
1. Sarah was 90 when Isaac was born.
2. Sarah died at 127 immediately after the Aqeidah, so Isaac was 37 at the Aqeidah.
3. Immediately after Sarah’s death, Abraham hears the news of the birth of Rebecca, so she was born when Isaac was 37. All other information (that Nahor and Micah had Bethuel and 7 other brothers) being conveyed was not the central information but provides as background information.
4. Isaac was 40 when he married Rebecca, so she must have been 3 when they married.
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The Hypocrisy is absolutely mind boggling I must admit, Judging others but don’t wanna be judged under same standards, if this is not hypocrisy then Idk what is, but clearly it cannot be applied to Bigots and Islamophobes.
I have my confirmation about this by talking to a person who is nothing but a Shameless Bigot and Islamophobe! So called Followers of Christ have put him under a lot of Shame today with their approach and behavior, Shameful indeed
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Graham
October 28, 2016 • 3:58 pm
Nawaz
Issac is called “a lad” by Abraham and Rebecca speaks to the servant like a fully grown adult – that;s why I don’t follow traditions like the hadith which are man-made speculations.
I say;
The Bible is not Hadith but you believed in the Bible.
Lad? Isaac is called a lad. And so what. A lad means young man. 40 years is a young man. Ask if you do not know. It is not unusual for a father to call his 40 year old lad. It is not unusual. When you calculate the age. Isaac’s wife was 3. Unless you do not know how to calculate. Some 3 year olds can speak.
Christians will do everything to defend their Jesus who has caused a lot of incest, pedophilia, rape, adultery, killing etc. in the Bible but will turn without heart in them to accuse someone’s prophet.
Dr. James White says stop that but sometimes he does that himself.
Definition of lad
informal
a boy or young man (often as a form of address):
“I read that book when I was a lad” ·
“come in, lad, and shut the door”
synonyms: boy · schoolboy · youth · youngster · juvenile · stripling ·
kid · whippersnapper
BRITISH
a stable worker (regardless of age or sex).
Thanks
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@Intellect Brother, As you rightly pointed out Lad doesn’t mean anything and I have simplified it for him to deduce the age of Rebecca but we know the obvious answer which he doesn’t wanna admit and Bible is not Hadith so this argument is nothing but a Childish or Maybe he’s out of excuses.
You’re talking to a Bigot and an Islamophobe so don’t expect any answer but beating around the bushes and I had my whole day into this argument so not worthy of wasting time here as I won’t waste any more time unless you wanna continue it’s your wish!
Salam 🙂
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Graham
October 28, 2016 • 4:06 pm
Intellect
“No where in the Quran God of Abraham sanctions pedophilia”
He calls mohammed’s actions “beautiful conduct” and the ahdith clearly shows mohammed to be a pedophile
I say;
You are asking us to bring from the Bible where it says Rebecca is 3. Now bring us where the Quran says pedophilia is permitted and you could not bring it.
You brought your wishful thinking by using modern standards without any reference. Jesus and Paul of Tarsus said
—————————–
New International Version
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
New Living Translation
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right
—————————-
Is Jesus allowing the rape and sex of a young slave girl by Abraham “beautiful conduct” for you to teach and correct your children?
Is your Church leaders telling you to vote for Donald Trump who fondle, kisses, grab MARRIED WOMEN genitals good or “beautiful conduct”?
Thanks.
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“My point is this :
” is the significance of Isaac’s age at the time of his sacrifice? Well, according to the Bible, Isaac was 37-years-old when he went up on Mount Moriah with his father. Rebecca was born straight after Isaac and Abraham, came down from the Mount Moriah and they went to Beersheba. Isaac was married to Rebecca when he was 40-years-old (Genesis 25:20). Since that is the case, this would mean Rebecca, was married off when she was 3 (or 4) years old. This would render Rabbi Rashi’s statement and others of Rebecca being 3-years-old when married to Isaac, as true when we look at Genesis account closely ”
Any answer ?
Yes, I think I have the answer which is that Flying Pir is mistakenly conflating or converging the events of Moriah, Abraham’s being informed about his his family and the death of Sarah in to one point in time because they follow each other in the narrative.
33And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God. 34 And Abraham sojourned in the Philistines’ land many days
A gap here, how big?
1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.
We can assume a gap of time here, how big?
Nahor’s Sons
20 And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor;
We can assume a gap of time here, how big?
Sarah’s death is just inserted in to the narrative without any reference to previous events. So we have no way of knowing how much time passed after the events previously mentioned.
The Death and Burial of Sarah
1And Sarah was an hundred and seven and twenty years old: these were the years of the life of Sarah. 2And Sarah died in Kirjatharba; the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan: and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah, and to weep for her.
Flying pir is assuming that there are no gaps of time inbetween the events that are being narrated. That is a conjectural assumption.
The previous event before the statement “and it came to pass after these things” and the next event after the statement is an unknown amount of time which could be many years especially as the human lifespan was appreciably longer in those days.
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@Madmanna
“I think I have the answer which is that Flying Pir is mistakenly conflating or converging the events of Moriah”
Have you notice that Br.Kaleef didn’t make any claim? He just quoted scholars & judeo-christian exegetical works.
” A gap here, how big?”
This gap couldn’t be more than the period between the birth of Isaac & Death of Sarah May Allah bless them both since we know exactly how old Sarah was when she gave birth to Isaac, and when she died .
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Intellect claims that lad can refer to an adult but where in the bible does it do this, for example:
9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. 11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham’s sight because of his son. 12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman.
15 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. 16And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept. 17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
20 And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. 21 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.
So was Ishmael an adult in his 30s who was still growing? Where are there any lads like this in the bible?
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3 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was 99 years old when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael
was thirteen;
26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day. 27 And every male in Abraham’s household, including those born in his household or bought from a foreigner, was circumcised with him.
so 13 year old ismael
so how old was ismael when he was sent out by abraham?
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At the time of God tempting Abraham to offer up Isaac Abraham and Sarah are dwelling in Beersheba.
Sarah died in Hebron which is a different city further to the north. This means that Abraham was no longer living in Beersheba at the time of Sarah’s death. This puts the Mt Moriah event before the death of Sarah which makes Flying Pirs timeline of events well nigh impossible.
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“so 13 year old ismael
so how old was ismael when he was sent out by abraham?”
you tell me. I think Abraham was 100 when Isaac was born.
37 still a long way to go.
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Graham
You said;
This is so stupid I can’t help but cry. You just said that you would allow your daughter to be sexually abused by an old man – that makes you a danger to society, yet you are trying to legitimize your perverted sanctification of a pedophile by making up some stupid scenario about the bible.
You are a pig.
You would subject your own child to excruciating genital pain and long-term physical, emotional, and psychological damage to appease your god, and worse, a mere human being.
But thanks for laying it all bare for us – your honesty is refreshing and the truth you reveal condemns your religion and its depraved prophet as evil.
I say;
I am a creature and not God and I could be a pig and I accept that because pigs are creatures like me. You fool Graham you forgot you blaspheme and insulted your God who said He is One and He is the Only True God.
Graham, you said your God became a creature. This is a sin that will burn you in hell forevever if you do not repent;
Graham, I am a creature like a pig, so I can be a pig and there is no problem but you said your God entered into his creation to love you just like pig, snake, elephants, man, i.e. Emperor Haile Selaissie as Rastafarian God, Sai Baba Hindu God, voodoo snake Gods and a pig God of other idol worshipers.
Graham. You are stupid not to see that by turning me into pig which I am not is an insult but not knowing that it is the same as insulting your own God whom you claim became man which he is not in a vagina of a young 12 year old girl named Mary.
Graham. You are stupid not to see that by turning me into pig which I am not is an insult but not knowing that it is the same as insulting your own God whom you claim became man which he is not in a vagina of a young 12 year old girl named Mary.
You think Your own God Jesus can become whatever he wants i.e. A PIG. The God of Abraham is the ONLY TRUE GOD AND HE IS ONE AND ALONE AND NOTHING IS LIKE HIM according to Jesus. May God forbid, my God cannot become man i.e. creature i.e. a PIG. Your God according to you can become a creature a PiG.
Why insult me as a PiG when your God is a Pig? i.e. Your God became creature and a Pig is creature. Your God came from the tiny vagina of a 12 year old Mary.
Back to topic. The Bible and the Quran did not put any age limit on my daughter but the criteria is that if my daughter is at puberty is fit to marry I can give her to any man of any age if even he is 110 (One hundred and Ten) years old or older. it is up to him and my daughter and there is nothing wrong about that.
You cannot use your modern age limit which started in the mid 1900s against the people of the past. It is unwise to do that.
Thanks.
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Graham
You see how you blaspheme God by saying he became a creature? i.e. a Pig. You are stupid not to realize that it is an insult to God to say God became a creature until calling me a pig today. You called me a pig thinking is a great insult to me because pigs are creatures no human will want to be but you do the same thing to God by saying He became a creature i.e. man, snake, pig, elephant, monkey.
Your God became creature to love you Graham but you how do you know at a certain point in time
God did not become pig to love others. I know some people claim God became snake, pigs, monkeys, elephants etc. just like how you Christians think to love them.
Graham, you called me a pig and I accept but you called your God a pig too by believing your God became a creature i.e. a pig.
My God of Abraham said in the Bible that nothing is like Him, so my God is not a creature i.e. not a man or a pig.
How do you call me a pig when you worship a pig?
The Bible or the Quran did not put age limit on my daughter but clearly states my daughter must be at puberty and I can give her to any man of any age if she and the man love themselves.
The age limit is modern which came into existence in the 1950s, so it is unwise to use the law which was not there against some people of the past.
It is like saying all the prophets must be arrested by not allowing gay marriage. That is foolish and stupid to put modern day law of age limit against the prophets of the past.
Thanks
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“Isaac was 37 when the incident of Mount Moriah takes place and at the same time Rebecca is born and Isaac marries Rebecca when he is 40 years old. Now guess the age of Rebecca?”
3 years old.
Now does this make prophet Isaac a pedophile?
It would if it were true. Which it is not.
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Graham
October 29, 2016 • 12:24 pm
Intellect
You are a groomer of little girls. Go away back to your kiddie porn and I’ll pray for your innocent daughter whom you want to give as a sex gift to your pedo-prophet.
Eric
“Isaac was 37 when the incident of Mount Moriah takes place and at the same time Rebecca is born and Isaac marries Rebecca when he is 40 years old. Now guess the age of Rebecca?”
I say;
Like your God Jesus grooming a slave girl for his prophet Abraham to rape and give birth to illegitimate child and Jesus became annoyed and refused that illegitimate child a covenant.
After that, your God impregnated a young girl called Mary and gave birth to himself and became a creature i.e. a man i.e. a pig and a half God half man hybrid creature to suck the breast of young Mary.
Thanks.
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“You are a groomer of little girls. Go away back to your kiddie porn and I’ll pray for your innocent daughter whom you want to give as a sex gift to your pedo-prophet.”
you don’t see gruesome porn in the ot when jesus told the jews to go and rip out unborns, kill infants and 3 year olds ?
how do you know that yhwhs children didn’t rape/shag to death an innocent child?
why would you care?
then 2 natures , 1 person comes along and pops his own mum!
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Sorry people, but Mary was most likely to be in her mid teen years. There’s no proof that most Jewish girls married around 12-13. Want proof ? Here are the evidences.Read one of them before replying.
Insights from Archaeology, by David A. Fiensy (pg 71 notes)
Jewish Marriage In Antiquity by Michael Satlow
Everyday Life In Bible Times by Arthur W.Klinck (chapter 8)
The Reigns of God is Such as These: A Socio-Literary Analysis of Daughters in the Gospel of Mark, by Sharon Betsworth (pg 54)
Children in Early Christian Narrative, by Sharon Betsworth (pg 35)
Every Living Thing:Daily Use of Animals in Ancient Israel, by Oded Borowski (pg 48)
Women’s Evangelical Commentary: New Testament: edited by Dorothy Kelley Patterson, Rhonda Harrington Kelley (pg 2)
Oxford Encyclopedia of the Bible and Gender Studies
edited by Julia M. O’Brien (pg 50-54)
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