Lol! Shamoun must feel infuriated being looked down upon by his Muslim opponents-most of whom are far more educated and qualified than he ever will be.
Imam Al shafi’y (ra) in his poem said :
قالوا سكتُّ وقد خوصمتُ قلتُ لهم إنَّ الجوابَ لبابِ الشرِّ مفتاحُ
والصمَّتُ عن جاهلٍ أو أحمقٍ شرفُ وفيه أيضاً لصونِ العرضِ إصلاحُ
أما تَرَى الأُسْدَ تُخْشى وهْي صَامِتة ٌ؟ والكلبُ يخسى لعمري وهو نباحُ
I don’t have the words to translate this golden poem. Basically Imam Al shafi’y was saying :
Why would I argue and waste my time with those ignorant people ?
Silence is the best answer for those people ( i.e ignorant).
Have not you seen that enough for lions to just show themselves up to be feared while the dog flees with all humiliation though it keeps barking?
Hey
That’s the problem you think everything about knowing is academic this is spiritual I don’t remember any of the disciples rivalling the Pharisees in the knowledge of God with religious education and sitting at the Gamaliel like Paul did.
Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
PHD doesn’t qualify you for heaven.
He should maybe debate Sam or is it fear of losing to an uneducated man the real issue.
Hi Paul
I speak according to what your fellow Muslim said my answer to that is none of the disciples were educated to PHD level so what’s he’s point…this spiritual is it not
Hey Paul
You people are funny you boast about your uneducated prophet and then Muslims spend their time talking about Christians that dont have a PHD…a PHD does not guarantee heaven.
I ask again were the disciples of Jesus qualified to preach for him?
Zelyts: So was your prophet, doesn’t stop you Muslims somehow taking him seriously.
Not only Muslims but also secular academics. There are departments devoted to the study of Islam. In contrast, no one in academia takes Shamoun or other wannabes on the internet seriously. The only people who think Shamoun is good are his equally ignorant fans on the internet.
“Our Prophet ﷺ was educated though. By God Almighty.
Sam Shamoun, on the other hand, is a rodeo clown.”
Did Hugh Hefner educate your prophet?
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Hadith Number 3428.
Chapter: Suckling of a young (boy – WITH A BEARD).
Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah’s Apostle (May peace be upon him) saying to ‘Aisha: By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon she (‘Aisha) said: Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah’s Messenger (May peace be upon him) and said: Allah’s Messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah’s Messenger (May peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She (Sahla bint Suhail) said: He has a heard. But he (again) said: Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said: (I did that) and, by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hadhaifa.
defendchrist
December 9, 2016 • 9:42 pm
Hey
That’s the problem you think everything about knowing is academic this is spiritual I don’t remember any of the disciples rivalling the Pharisees in the knowledge of God with religious education and sitting at the Gamaliel like Paul did.
Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day
I say;
You are wrong. Paul of Tarsus is not a disciple of Jesus Christ. He saw Jesus in a vision according to him. It could be satanic vision. So many people today are claiming to have seen Jesus Christ in vision. God send the real angel to his prophets at first and later it could be vision but the first must be authentic.
You said;
Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day
I say;
Is Paul of Tarsus not lying? Does the perfect manner of the law of the fathers he was taught asked him to bounty hunted the Christians and persecuted them?
———————————
With regards to Sam Shamoun, he must shut our mouths by trying at least to get a diploma or degree in either Jewish, Christian or Islamic studies, other wise we will continue to question his authority in these religions.
jewish christianity died when jerusalem was destroyed. you have to admit we have seen false krists, false gospels, false churches, false “i am’s” , miracle workers etc , but jesus failed to return.
Jesus “came” in judgment on Israel in 70 AD. “coming” does not always mean literal. In Revelation 2:5; 2:16; 2:22-24; 3:3 “coming” and other descriptions means coming in judgment. Just as Isaiah 19:1 shows that God riding on a cloud means His coming in judgment on the gods and idols of Egypt. Just as in Isaiah 13, God coming in judgment means the coming judgment on Babylon. See Isaiah 13:1, 9-11. notice the parallels of Isaiah 13:9-11 with Matthew 24:29-31.
The liberalism in the west is indeed another form of God’s judgment on churches and cultures that have turned away from God.
But Jesus will return physically at the end of time. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Peter 3:1-15; Matthew 24:36-51 and chapter 25 teaches about the future coming of Christ, which Islam also believes in – the second coming of Isa Al Masih, عیسی المسیح
“Jesus “came” in judgment on Israel in 70 AD. “coming” does not always mean literal. In Revelation 2:5; 2:16; 2:22-24; 3:3 “coming” and other descriptions means coming in judgment.”
you can’t use the SAME fabricated lies from your new testament to have him fullfill the same fabricated lies 2nd time. you are making him “fullfill” bits according to your own interpretation, then you USE the same text to have him come back to finnish off what he failed to do. you are “dualing” the text or making “dual prophecy” which is not even derived from the text.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”
this is all in reference to what was previously said. he told his disiples to “keep watch” maybe they have kept watch till this day?
you want this guy to fullfill bits and unfullfill bits, but the text doesn’t even give your understanding . it is all CONNECTED and sequential.
Matthew 24:36 “but of that day” changes the issue from 70 AD to the future second coming. But some of Matthew 24:3-35 is a mixture of both 70 and the second coming, because the disciples added 2 more issues into the question of when the temple would be destroyed in 70 AD. They added, “and the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age.” Jesus answers them with a mixture of both; to make us always to be careful and not try and predict when Christ will return. Anyone who predicts the second coming, we know is a false prophet. (like a lot of those TV End-Time Events type preachers)
“Matthew 24:36 “but of that day” changes the issue from 70 AD to the future second coming.”
more made up christian claims. if i said in 1990 “no one knows when the two planes will hit the trade centres , but it is happening soon….” this implies 2500 years into the future?
“But some of Matthew 24:3-35 is a mixture of both 70 ”
is a “mixture” everything damn thing is “mixture” have your failed god fullfill any mixture any time .
“and the second coming, because the disciples added 2 more issues into the question of when the temple would be destroyed in 70 AD. They added, “and the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age.” Jesus answers them with a mixture of both;”
“mixture of both”
this mixture was clearly not sitting well with another failed prophet called “john”
“[Jesus] said to [the apostles], ‘Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.’” (Mark 9:1)
gets debunked by john
Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them…When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, ‘Lord, what about him?’ Jesus said to him, ‘If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? Follow me!’ So the rumor spread in the community that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, ‘If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?’”
“Matthew 24:36 “but of that day” changes the issue from 70 AD to the future second coming. But some of Matthew 24:3-35 is a mixture of both 70 and the second coming, because the disciples added 2 more issues into the question of when the temple would be destroyed in 70 AD. They added, “and the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age.” Jesus answers them with a mixture of both; to make us always to be careful and not try and predict when Christ will return. Anyone who predicts the second coming, we know is a false prophet. (like a lot of those TV End-Time Events type preachers)”
there is too much imminece attached to your gods FALSE claims too much. you are “dualing” his claims using the same FAILED texts , have you no shame?
why don’t you use this same apologetic to defend islam?
“ ‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’b
30“Then will appear the sign of the son of man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthc will mourn when they see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
ken, in “second coming” will all these things take place or will they take place without them being noticed? or in “second coming” will your god try to fullfill ALL this in more literal fashion?
if they do, then the later verses after “no one knows…” are connected or disconnected to the above end time story ?
Here’s a better question. There are plenty of critical biblical scholars. Why doesn’t Shamoun challenge them to debate? Why doesn’t Shamoun challenge, for instance, Bart Ehrman? Is Shamoun scared?
Most importantly, why doesn’t Shamoun get a job and stop living off his wife’s income?
I still don’t understand how “educated ” people are running away from debating and exposing a fraud like the “uneducated, buffoon ” Sam shamoun? I’m beginning to think that they are not really educated and are just buffoons! !
Debating shambooble is like debating a pile of smelly shit. The only thing you leave with is smelling yourself like shit until you incinerate your clothes and shower for a couple of hours.
While we’re at it, can someone tell me why some Muslims continue to engage Wood? The guy may not be a foul-mouthed piece of sh’it, but he’s still a piece of sh’it.
Hey Edward
In the torah eating camel is also prohibited as well as pork and we all know Muslims eat camel…so maybe less of the pork accusation towards christians you guys are so hypocritical.
“In the torah eating camel is also prohibited as well as pork and we all know Muslims eat camel…so maybe less of the pork accusation towards christians you guys are so hypocritical.”
your god came down as a jew you moron, so he was subject to the jewish laws.
it gets worse for you because, even christians agree that jesus did not “make all foods clean”
i will quote :
When dealing with this issue one of the first misconceptions by Christians is the definition of food. In the time and culture of Yeshua food was only those things that Torah said could be eaten. But modern day readers outside the context of 2nd temple Judaism unknowingly redefine food as clean and unclean food. With this new definition of “food”, saying Yeshua made all foods clean carries a whole different meaning than intended.
If you read the passage in context; Yeshua is addressing a charge from the Pharisees concerning hand washing, nothing about food. In addition if you read the passage you’ll notice “he made all food clean” is an addition of an editor. If you have a decent Bible it should be in parentheses.
One piece of advice if you’re willing to accept it: Everything must agree with Matthew 5:17-21, and therefore Torah, if not disregard it as an addition, editing or a misunderstanding
Interesting how some Muslims here curse and use sinful language; and Paul Williams allows it. You guys violate Surah 29:46 and give a negative dis-crediting to your faith.
I love when Christians push fallible human Muslims to the limit with their childish antics and stupidity, and then try to guilt trip them with the Qur’an when they lose it.
Just to refute the insults by Shamoun/or one of his supporters. Here’s an older video I did (so does contain a level of mockery that I’m not proud of) addressing this insult of illiteracy.
Christians who subscribe to “Biblical inerrancy” need to spiritualize away the false statements found in the Bible because of the problem of inerrancy. The Bible is not the inerrant Word of God. If the “coming” refers to the judgement of God upon Israel in the year 70 CE (2:5; 2:16; 2:22-24; 3:3) as you claim, how do you explain that Revelation was written AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem?
According to the oldest tradition [in Iren., Adv. Haer. 5.30.3] Rev was written toward the end of the reign of Domitian (81-96). The book’s own testimony indicates that it originated in the province of Asia in a time of severe oppression of Christians, which is most readily conceivable under Domitian. (Werner Georg, Introduction to the New Testament, pp. 466-8):
Where is your evidence that Christians believed Jesus “spiritually” came in the year 70 CE? This must be after-the-fact explanation by the Church to resolve the difficulty. Now, because this book was written after the destruction of Jerusalem the words “I am coming soon” must be understood literally as referring to Jesus’ (failed) second coming, which people thought would happen before the century ended.
He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. (Rev. 22:20)
I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. (Rev. 3:11)
“Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.” (Rev. 12:7)
“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. (Rev. 22:12)
The passage 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is not about the end of time. Paul includes himself among the WE who anticipated the sudden coming of Jesus from heaven:
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then WE WHO ARE ALIVE and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord (1 Thess. 4:16-17)
Shabir Ally quoted this passage in his 2014 debate with Jay Smith. There was absolutely no response from Jay. Paul mistakenly believed Jesus was going to return in his lifetime. It is interesting that 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is the only passage about the “rapture” in the whole New Testament.
‘Say what you like,’ we shall be told, ‘the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And He was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.’ It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.” (C.S. Lewis, Essay “The World’s Last Night” (1960), found in The Essential C.S. Lewis, p-385)
“Ever since Jesus pronounced this message of imminent judgement and salvation, he has had followers who agreed–even though the church at large has argued, sometimes vociferously, that Jesus must not have been speaking these words literally but figuratively. In this LATER Christian view, Jesus’ proclamation must not have referred to an actual judgement of the earth and the appearance of an actual Kingdom, but possibly of judgement that people faced at the time of death, or of the kingdom that came in the community of Jesus’ disciples who formed the church…It’s no wonder that a figurative construal of Jesus’ words became so popular so soon and achieved such dominance for so long. If Jesus were to be taken literally–that is, if he really meant that the Son of Man was to arrive in the lifetime of his disciples–he was obviously wrong” (Bart Ehrman, Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium, p 244)
“He urged his followers to abandon their homes and forsake their families for the sake of the Kingdom that was SOON TO ARRIVE. He didn’t encourage people to pursue fulfilling careers, make a good living, and work for a just society for the long haul; for him, there wasn’t going to be a long haul. The end of the world as we know it was already at hand” (ibid, p 244)
Christians invented those sayings to make themselves feel good and convinced themselves that Jesus would return shortly.
Wood and Shamoun simply cherry pick from the Islamic traditions and place their own spin, they take passages out of context and divorce the Scripture from the Interpretive tradition. This is not scholarly.
which is what Williams, Shabir Ally and edward and other Muslims do here (to the Bible and Christianity), divorce the Scriptures from the interpretive tradition and use liberal modern secular anti-supernaturalism and put their anachronistic Islamic spin on it after washing it through liberal theology of the past 300 years.
which is what Williams, Shabir Ally and edward and other Muslims do here (to the Bible and Christianity), divorce the Scriptures from the interpretive tradition and use liberal modern secular anti-supernaturalism and put their anachronistic Islamic spin on it after washing it through liberal theology of the past 300 years.
I say;
Rev. Ken.There is a big difference. Why?
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit.
I do not need a liberal to teach me how to count. It is 3 gods even if Christians say “we do not believe that”
The Christians will not believe Mormons as worshiping one God because they have multi person as their God and the Christians are right. It has nothing to do with liberal scholars.
God-Man or God is 100% man is an impossibility in both Jesus Christ, Sai Baba, Emperor Haile Selaissie etc.
We do not need liberal or conservative scholar to tell us the meaning of the above. Jesus said he has a God. We do not need a liberal scholar to tell us it means “God has a God” and it is 2 Gods, despite Christian objections.
On the other hand, we do not have weird things like the above in Islam, so, Islam needs study and research to be able to interpret it.
Hi Intellect
Where did Selassie ever say he was a god man? Jesus on the other hand did say he came from heaven which means his beginning didn’t begin in the womb of Mary.
And if he did exist before in heaven then who and what is he?
with this understanding in mind , i sought to answer your dumb question above. but because you are an original sinned stained christian, i understand why you would say “how dumb you muslims are”
”
Jesus on the other hand did say he came from heaven which means his beginning didn’t begin in the womb of Mary”
so do you see, why your dumb brains should have asked for clarification before you jumped to saying “dumb” ?
“Does the bible speak about The Father the son and the Holy Ghost. Does the teach anywhere about three gods?”
yeah, 3 gods. you worship 3 gods and you should accept that you worship 3 gods. i mean , how do you even know if “the son” is even 1 person? he could be 3 gods in 1 .
“Hi Edward.
If you manage it according to the bible please work out for me where it teaches three gods mocking is not going to help you.”
if i impose trinitarian thinking on biblical text , i must see other gods with god.
yhwh made moses a god, how many gods?
sometimes isaiah speaks as if he is god, how many gods?
sometimes joshua speaks as if he is god. he commands the sun to stop
who can do that except god?
2 gods there. one on earth and second one in heaven
david is worshipped besides god. how many worshipped ?
jesus gets dunked in the river and the heavens open up and he communicates with another god high up in heaven. how many gods ? and what was the spirit doing while yhwhs was up in heaven chatting with dunked jesus?
3 gods.
how do you know “one person” is 1 ?
how do you know it is not more than 1?
jesus is one person from a group of 3 persons
3 spirits = 3 gods.
in the synoptics where does jesus say he is a spirit?
On the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the Lord; and he said in the sight of Israel,
“Sun, stand still at Gibeon,
and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon.”
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
until the nation took vengeance on their enemies.
look “defend krist” joshua became the INCARNATE word of god. notice how josh COMMANDS the sun to stop in front of the people ? this means the word became josh’ mouth/tongue .
yhwh did not “instrument ” his mouth, yhwh became FLESH.
/////////////
moses is god yhwh
no change of speaker- moses speaks as though he is yhwh
29 These are the words of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children
of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;
3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the Lord your God.
you dumb piece of horse manure, you failed to note that there was no shift between the speakers.and i was applying trinitarian apologetic on ot verses. josh speaks as though he is yhwh. you said god “listened”
jesus says god listened to him too LOL
so who is dumb here?
when jesus said “father you always hear me”
doesn’t that imply daddy always use to listen to his little puny poughter son?
Williams, you should have also posted my response since I am sure it will delight KSMOOCHER’s pagan heart:
Sam Shamoun Ali it’s obvious why I would want to debate a shameless butcher like you, in order to expose the fact that you are really nothing more than an amateur masquerading as a scholar and that your PhD is only good for toilet paper. But it’s good to see that humbleness is one of your strong suits. 😂
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 5:43am
Blogging Theology 
Lol! Shamoun must feel infuriated being looked down upon by his Muslim opponents-most of whom are far more educated and qualified than he ever will be.
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And Dr. Ali Ataie is right. Why should he engage an uneducated buffoon like Shamoun?
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Lol! 🙂 He nailed him.
Imam Al shafi’y (ra) in his poem said :
قالوا سكتُّ وقد خوصمتُ قلتُ لهم إنَّ الجوابَ لبابِ الشرِّ مفتاحُ
والصمَّتُ عن جاهلٍ أو أحمقٍ شرفُ وفيه أيضاً لصونِ العرضِ إصلاحُ
أما تَرَى الأُسْدَ تُخْشى وهْي صَامِتة ٌ؟ والكلبُ يخسى لعمري وهو نباحُ
I don’t have the words to translate this golden poem. Basically Imam Al shafi’y was saying :
Why would I argue and waste my time with those ignorant people ?
Silence is the best answer for those people ( i.e ignorant).
Have not you seen that enough for lions to just show themselves up to be feared while the dog flees with all humiliation though it keeps barking?
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Thanks for sharing that poem!
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Misleading title.
Should be:
“Another Muslim chickening out of a debate challenge from Sam Shamoun”
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Hey
That’s the problem you think everything about knowing is academic this is spiritual I don’t remember any of the disciples rivalling the Pharisees in the knowledge of God with religious education and sitting at the Gamaliel like Paul did.
Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
PHD doesn’t qualify you for heaven.
He should maybe debate Sam or is it fear of losing to an uneducated man the real issue.
I for one would love to see that
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“He should maybe debate Sam or is it fear of losing to an uneducated man the real issue.”
At least we can all agree that Sam is uneducated…
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Hi Paul
I speak according to what your fellow Muslim said my answer to that is none of the disciples were educated to PHD level so what’s he’s point…this spiritual is it not
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Hey Paul
You people are funny you boast about your uneducated prophet and then Muslims spend their time talking about Christians that dont have a PHD…a PHD does not guarantee heaven.
I ask again were the disciples of Jesus qualified to preach for him?
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Paul Williams
“”At least we can all agree that Sam is uneducated…””
So was your prophet, doesn’t stop you Muslims somehow taking him seriously.
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Our Prophet ﷺ was educated though. By God Almighty.
Sam Shamoun, on the other hand, is a rodeo clown.
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Zelyts: So was your prophet, doesn’t stop you Muslims somehow taking him seriously.
Not only Muslims but also secular academics. There are departments devoted to the study of Islam. In contrast, no one in academia takes Shamoun or other wannabes on the internet seriously. The only people who think Shamoun is good are his equally ignorant fans on the internet.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Abu Talhah
“Our Prophet ﷺ was educated though. By God Almighty.
Sam Shamoun, on the other hand, is a rodeo clown.”
Did Hugh Hefner educate your prophet?
http://hadithcollection.com/sahihmuslim/136-Sahih%20Muslim%20Book%2008.%20Marriage/11244-sahih-muslim-book-008-hadith-number-3428.html
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defendchrist
December 9, 2016 • 9:42 pm
Hey
That’s the problem you think everything about knowing is academic this is spiritual I don’t remember any of the disciples rivalling the Pharisees in the knowledge of God with religious education and sitting at the Gamaliel like Paul did.
Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day
I say;
You are wrong. Paul of Tarsus is not a disciple of Jesus Christ. He saw Jesus in a vision according to him. It could be satanic vision. So many people today are claiming to have seen Jesus Christ in vision. God send the real angel to his prophets at first and later it could be vision but the first must be authentic.
You said;
Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day
I say;
Is Paul of Tarsus not lying? Does the perfect manner of the law of the fathers he was taught asked him to bounty hunted the Christians and persecuted them?
———————————
With regards to Sam Shamoun, he must shut our mouths by trying at least to get a diploma or degree in either Jewish, Christian or Islamic studies, other wise we will continue to question his authority in these religions.
Thanks
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Interesting – what is Dr. Ali Ataie’s degree, and where did he get it from and were his professors liberal, or what?
If it was in Germany, there is not much by way of Evangelical Faith there left in Universities.
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“Evangelical Faith there left in Universities”
jewish christianity died when jerusalem was destroyed. you have to admit we have seen false krists, false gospels, false churches, false “i am’s” , miracle workers etc , but jesus failed to return.
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Jesus “came” in judgment on Israel in 70 AD. “coming” does not always mean literal. In Revelation 2:5; 2:16; 2:22-24; 3:3 “coming” and other descriptions means coming in judgment. Just as Isaiah 19:1 shows that God riding on a cloud means His coming in judgment on the gods and idols of Egypt. Just as in Isaiah 13, God coming in judgment means the coming judgment on Babylon. See Isaiah 13:1, 9-11. notice the parallels of Isaiah 13:9-11 with Matthew 24:29-31.
The liberalism in the west is indeed another form of God’s judgment on churches and cultures that have turned away from God.
But Jesus will return physically at the end of time. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Peter 3:1-15; Matthew 24:36-51 and chapter 25 teaches about the future coming of Christ, which Islam also believes in – the second coming of Isa Al Masih, عیسی المسیح
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“Jesus “came” in judgment on Israel in 70 AD. “coming” does not always mean literal. In Revelation 2:5; 2:16; 2:22-24; 3:3 “coming” and other descriptions means coming in judgment.”
you can’t use the SAME fabricated lies from your new testament to have him fullfill the same fabricated lies 2nd time. you are making him “fullfill” bits according to your own interpretation, then you USE the same text to have him come back to finnish off what he failed to do. you are “dualing” the text or making “dual prophecy” which is not even derived from the text.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”
this is all in reference to what was previously said. he told his disiples to “keep watch” maybe they have kept watch till this day?
you want this guy to fullfill bits and unfullfill bits, but the text doesn’t even give your understanding . it is all CONNECTED and sequential.
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Matthew 24:36 “but of that day” changes the issue from 70 AD to the future second coming. But some of Matthew 24:3-35 is a mixture of both 70 and the second coming, because the disciples added 2 more issues into the question of when the temple would be destroyed in 70 AD. They added, “and the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age.” Jesus answers them with a mixture of both; to make us always to be careful and not try and predict when Christ will return. Anyone who predicts the second coming, we know is a false prophet. (like a lot of those TV End-Time Events type preachers)
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“Matthew 24:36 “but of that day” changes the issue from 70 AD to the future second coming.”
more made up christian claims. if i said in 1990 “no one knows when the two planes will hit the trade centres , but it is happening soon….” this implies 2500 years into the future?
“But some of Matthew 24:3-35 is a mixture of both 70 ”
is a “mixture” everything damn thing is “mixture” have your failed god fullfill any mixture any time .
“and the second coming, because the disciples added 2 more issues into the question of when the temple would be destroyed in 70 AD. They added, “and the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age.” Jesus answers them with a mixture of both;”
“mixture of both”
this mixture was clearly not sitting well with another failed prophet called “john”
“[Jesus] said to [the apostles], ‘Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.’” (Mark 9:1)
gets debunked by john
Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them…When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, ‘Lord, what about him?’ Jesus said to him, ‘If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? Follow me!’ So the rumor spread in the community that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, ‘If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?’”
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“Matthew 24:36 “but of that day” changes the issue from 70 AD to the future second coming. But some of Matthew 24:3-35 is a mixture of both 70 and the second coming, because the disciples added 2 more issues into the question of when the temple would be destroyed in 70 AD. They added, “and the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age.” Jesus answers them with a mixture of both; to make us always to be careful and not try and predict when Christ will return. Anyone who predicts the second coming, we know is a false prophet. (like a lot of those TV End-Time Events type preachers)”
there is too much imminece attached to your gods FALSE claims too much. you are “dualing” his claims using the same FAILED texts , have you no shame?
why don’t you use this same apologetic to defend islam?
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quote:
29“Immediately after the distress of those days
“ ‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’b
30“Then will appear the sign of the son of man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthc will mourn when they see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
ken, in “second coming” will all these things take place or will they take place without them being noticed? or in “second coming” will your god try to fullfill ALL this in more literal fashion?
if they do, then the later verses after “no one knows…” are connected or disconnected to the above end time story ?
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Here’s a better question. There are plenty of critical biblical scholars. Why doesn’t Shamoun challenge them to debate? Why doesn’t Shamoun challenge, for instance, Bart Ehrman? Is Shamoun scared?
Most importantly, why doesn’t Shamoun get a job and stop living off his wife’s income?
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I still don’t understand how “educated ” people are running away from debating and exposing a fraud like the “uneducated, buffoon ” Sam shamoun? I’m beginning to think that they are not really educated and are just buffoons! !
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Because it doesn’t take a PhD to realize what a moron Shamoun is. You cheerleaders just have blinders on.
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Ksk: I still don’t understand how “educated ” people are running away…
The same way they run away from hookers, drug dealers, etc. It is a matter of self-respect.
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Debating shambooble is like debating a pile of smelly shit. The only thing you leave with is smelling yourself like shit until you incinerate your clothes and shower for a couple of hours.
Do you understand know?
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While we’re at it, can someone tell me why some Muslims continue to engage Wood? The guy may not be a foul-mouthed piece of sh’it, but he’s still a piece of sh’it.
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Hey Kmak
You do your religion ( if you are a muslim) no justice the language is gutter and you seriously need to repent and get your heart right.
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So how many times have you condemned Shamoun for being foul-mouthed?
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jesus would have considered sam shamoun a pork eating non-jewish dog who feeds off the floor , beneath his owners table.
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Hey Edward
In the torah eating camel is also prohibited as well as pork and we all know Muslims eat camel…so maybe less of the pork accusation towards christians you guys are so hypocritical.
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dogs eat their own excrement and shamoun would have been seen as a dog who feeds of his own excrement by jesus krist “son of god”
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I’ll ask again. Do you, defendchrist, condemn Shamoun for being foul-mouthed?
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“In the torah eating camel is also prohibited as well as pork and we all know Muslims eat camel…so maybe less of the pork accusation towards christians you guys are so hypocritical.”
your god came down as a jew you moron, so he was subject to the jewish laws.
it gets worse for you because, even christians agree that jesus did not “make all foods clean”
i will quote :
When dealing with this issue one of the first misconceptions by Christians is the definition of food. In the time and culture of Yeshua food was only those things that Torah said could be eaten. But modern day readers outside the context of 2nd temple Judaism unknowingly redefine food as clean and unclean food. With this new definition of “food”, saying Yeshua made all foods clean carries a whole different meaning than intended.
If you read the passage in context; Yeshua is addressing a charge from the Pharisees concerning hand washing, nothing about food. In addition if you read the passage you’ll notice “he made all food clean” is an addition of an editor. If you have a decent Bible it should be in parentheses.
One piece of advice if you’re willing to accept it: Everything must agree with Matthew 5:17-21, and therefore Torah, if not disregard it as an addition, editing or a misunderstanding
end quote
remember the difference.
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Interesting how some Muslims here curse and use sinful language; and Paul Williams allows it. You guys violate Surah 29:46 and give a negative dis-crediting to your faith.
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I love when Christians push fallible human Muslims to the limit with their childish antics and stupidity, and then try to guilt trip them with the Qur’an when they lose it.
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Ken we put up with your foolishness and lies about Islam every day. I wouldn’t complain too much if I were you
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Just to refute the insults by Shamoun/or one of his supporters. Here’s an older video I did (so does contain a level of mockery that I’m not proud of) addressing this insult of illiteracy.
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Christians who subscribe to “Biblical inerrancy” need to spiritualize away the false statements found in the Bible because of the problem of inerrancy. The Bible is not the inerrant Word of God. If the “coming” refers to the judgement of God upon Israel in the year 70 CE (2:5; 2:16; 2:22-24; 3:3) as you claim, how do you explain that Revelation was written AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem?
According to the oldest tradition [in Iren., Adv. Haer. 5.30.3] Rev was written toward the end of the reign of Domitian (81-96). The book’s own testimony indicates that it originated in the province of Asia in a time of severe oppression of Christians, which is most readily conceivable under Domitian. (Werner Georg, Introduction to the New Testament, pp. 466-8):
Where is your evidence that Christians believed Jesus “spiritually” came in the year 70 CE? This must be after-the-fact explanation by the Church to resolve the difficulty. Now, because this book was written after the destruction of Jerusalem the words “I am coming soon” must be understood literally as referring to Jesus’ (failed) second coming, which people thought would happen before the century ended.
He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. (Rev. 22:20)
I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. (Rev. 3:11)
“Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.” (Rev. 12:7)
“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. (Rev. 22:12)
The passage 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is not about the end of time. Paul includes himself among the WE who anticipated the sudden coming of Jesus from heaven:
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then WE WHO ARE ALIVE and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord (1 Thess. 4:16-17)
Shabir Ally quoted this passage in his 2014 debate with Jay Smith. There was absolutely no response from Jay. Paul mistakenly believed Jesus was going to return in his lifetime. It is interesting that 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is the only passage about the “rapture” in the whole New Testament.
‘Say what you like,’ we shall be told, ‘the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And He was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.’ It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.” (C.S. Lewis, Essay “The World’s Last Night” (1960), found in The Essential C.S. Lewis, p-385)
“Ever since Jesus pronounced this message of imminent judgement and salvation, he has had followers who agreed–even though the church at large has argued, sometimes vociferously, that Jesus must not have been speaking these words literally but figuratively. In this LATER Christian view, Jesus’ proclamation must not have referred to an actual judgement of the earth and the appearance of an actual Kingdom, but possibly of judgement that people faced at the time of death, or of the kingdom that came in the community of Jesus’ disciples who formed the church…It’s no wonder that a figurative construal of Jesus’ words became so popular so soon and achieved such dominance for so long. If Jesus were to be taken literally–that is, if he really meant that the Son of Man was to arrive in the lifetime of his disciples–he was obviously wrong” (Bart Ehrman, Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium, p 244)
“He urged his followers to abandon their homes and forsake their families for the sake of the Kingdom that was SOON TO ARRIVE. He didn’t encourage people to pursue fulfilling careers, make a good living, and work for a just society for the long haul; for him, there wasn’t going to be a long haul. The end of the world as we know it was already at hand” (ibid, p 244)
Christians invented those sayings to make themselves feel good and convinced themselves that Jesus would return shortly.
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Wood and Shamoun simply cherry pick from the Islamic traditions and place their own spin, they take passages out of context and divorce the Scripture from the Interpretive tradition. This is not scholarly.
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Exactly right
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which is what Williams, Shabir Ally and edward and other Muslims do here (to the Bible and Christianity), divorce the Scriptures from the interpretive tradition and use liberal modern secular anti-supernaturalism and put their anachronistic Islamic spin on it after washing it through liberal theology of the past 300 years.
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great rhetoric – even if it is completely baseless
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Ken Temple
December 10, 2016 • 1:29 pm
which is what Williams, Shabir Ally and edward and other Muslims do here (to the Bible and Christianity), divorce the Scriptures from the interpretive tradition and use liberal modern secular anti-supernaturalism and put their anachronistic Islamic spin on it after washing it through liberal theology of the past 300 years.
I say;
Rev. Ken.There is a big difference. Why?
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit.
I do not need a liberal to teach me how to count. It is 3 gods even if Christians say “we do not believe that”
The Christians will not believe Mormons as worshiping one God because they have multi person as their God and the Christians are right. It has nothing to do with liberal scholars.
God-Man or God is 100% man is an impossibility in both Jesus Christ, Sai Baba, Emperor Haile Selaissie etc.
We do not need liberal or conservative scholar to tell us the meaning of the above. Jesus said he has a God. We do not need a liberal scholar to tell us it means “God has a God” and it is 2 Gods, despite Christian objections.
On the other hand, we do not have weird things like the above in Islam, so, Islam needs study and research to be able to interpret it.
Thanks.
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They also the whole religion by the actions of extremists
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Hi Intellect
Does the bible speak about The Father the son and the Holy Ghost. Does the teach anywhere about three gods?
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Old Islamic saying : Silence is the best answer to a fool
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Hi Intellect
Where did Selassie ever say he was a god man? Jesus on the other hand did say he came from heaven which means his beginning didn’t begin in the womb of Mary.
And if he did exist before in heaven then who and what is he?
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“Hi Intellect
Where did Selassie ever say he was a god man?”
i don’t know, but there are god men in history who claimed to come from up above.
http://ehrmanblog.org/when-men-became-gods-my-lecture-in-denmark/
and buy this book
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Hey Edward.
So you trust Erhman to give you truth? He actually believes the crucifixion of Jesus was a real event…do you trust that too.
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i thought you wanted to know about god men ?
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“And if he did exist before in heaven then who and what is he?”
jews believed in pre-existence
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12339-preexistence
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12340-preexistence-of-the-soul
with this understanding in mind , i sought to answer your dumb question above. but because you are an original sinned stained christian, i understand why you would say “how dumb you muslims are”
”
Jesus on the other hand did say he came from heaven which means his beginning didn’t begin in the womb of Mary”
so do you see, why your dumb brains should have asked for clarification before you jumped to saying “dumb” ?
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“Does the bible speak about The Father the son and the Holy Ghost. Does the teach anywhere about three gods?”
yeah, 3 gods. you worship 3 gods and you should accept that you worship 3 gods. i mean , how do you even know if “the son” is even 1 person? he could be 3 gods in 1 .
so it is possible you have 9 gods altogether.
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Hi Edward.
If you manage it according to the bible please work out for me where it teaches three gods mocking is not going to help you.
Please quote the scriptures that teach three gods…back your accusation up with scripture.
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“And if he did exist before in heaven then who and what is he?”
heavenly created thing ?
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Hi Edward
You are just proving how dumb you Muslims really are. Is that what the bible teaches?
Where does the bible teach that Jesus is a heavenly created being?
That goes for dumb guy using words he shouldnt be against Shamoun and others.
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“Where does the bible teach that Jesus is a heavenly created being?”
okay dumb christian. where do any of the synoptic teach that jesus was a spirit?
since luke investigated everything from the beginning, how comes he didn’t know jesus was 100% spirit?
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“Hi Edward.
If you manage it according to the bible please work out for me where it teaches three gods mocking is not going to help you.”
if i impose trinitarian thinking on biblical text , i must see other gods with god.
yhwh made moses a god, how many gods?
sometimes isaiah speaks as if he is god, how many gods?
sometimes joshua speaks as if he is god. he commands the sun to stop
who can do that except god?
2 gods there. one on earth and second one in heaven
david is worshipped besides god. how many worshipped ?
jesus gets dunked in the river and the heavens open up and he communicates with another god high up in heaven. how many gods ? and what was the spirit doing while yhwhs was up in heaven chatting with dunked jesus?
3 gods.
how do you know “one person” is 1 ?
how do you know it is not more than 1?
jesus is one person from a group of 3 persons
3 spirits = 3 gods.
in the synoptics where does jesus say he is a spirit?
he doesn’t so jesus is a flesh god.
so you have 2 spirits + flesh god
= 3 gods.
thanks
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On the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the Lord; and he said in the sight of Israel,
“Sun, stand still at Gibeon,
and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon.”
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
until the nation took vengeance on their enemies.
look “defend krist” joshua became the INCARNATE word of god. notice how josh COMMANDS the sun to stop in front of the people ? this means the word became josh’ mouth/tongue .
yhwh did not “instrument ” his mouth, yhwh became FLESH.
/////////////
moses is god yhwh
no change of speaker- moses speaks as though he is yhwh
29 These are the words of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children
of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;
3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the Lord your God.
///
2 gods there . yhwh became the “word made flesh”
2 separate and distinct gods
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Hi Edward
If you read the context you will see that the bible says it was an answer to prayer not Joshua…you dumb guy.
V14 And there no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD HEARKENED UNTO THE VOICE OF A MAN.
So it was not Joshua it was God!
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you dumb piece of horse manure, you failed to note that there was no shift between the speakers.and i was applying trinitarian apologetic on ot verses. josh speaks as though he is yhwh. you said god “listened”
jesus says god listened to him too LOL
so who is dumb here?
when jesus said “father you always hear me”
doesn’t that imply daddy always use to listen to his little puny poughter son?
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dude can we tone down the language. thanks
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you dumb man worshipping son of a ***** doesn’t your god bend over and make prayer in the garden and then it gets rejected?
doesn’t he cry like a bitch ” my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?”
doesn’t he go into temples and seek his dad in heaven?
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Please . Where is our sabr??
Remember “Allah surely loves those who are the Sabireen (3:146)
Be wary that even in this noble effort to convey the truth to those who are misguided, insults and anger can lead to Haraam and therefore sinful.
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exactly
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i agree with paul and eric and let my anger get the better of me. i think i will request paul for putting a ban on me on his blog because when i read
”
LORD HEARKENED UNTO THE VOICE OF A MAN.”
and then i juxtapose with
“jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.”
how comes one is an incarnation yet the other is not ?
how come i get told:
”
…Joshua…you dumb guy.”
it angers me that these pagans don’t put two and two together and see that they can justify the worship of any creature in the OT.
“dude can we tone down the language. thanks”
i request a ban bro.
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request denied.
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Hi Edward
Let me apologise to you I never really call people names on this blog and I dont really want to start now.
So please accept my apologies and I extend that to Paul.as well
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Williams, you should have also posted my response since I am sure it will delight KSMOOCHER’s pagan heart:
Sam Shamoun Ali it’s obvious why I would want to debate a shameless butcher like you, in order to expose the fact that you are really nothing more than an amateur masquerading as a scholar and that your PhD is only good for toilet paper. But it’s good to see that humbleness is one of your strong suits. 😂
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 5:43am
Now that is what I call an OUCH! 😉
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Here’s an uneducated person calling someone else’s PhD degree toilet paper AND accusing him of not being humble. Shamoun is such a joke.
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