“Death and life are in the power of the tongue” (Proverbs 18:21)
(This originally appeared on my blog, enjoy)
I usually write out of inspiration; I first have an idea, poem, senseless piece of thought-garbage etc., then an impulse forces me to grab a pen and inscribe the thought, and then perfect it and then post it online for everlasting life. Not so today, though. Today, I don’t know what to write. I don’t even have an idea of which direction I want to take this post. I’m not writing to say something. I’m writing because I can’t remain silent!
I have an unspoken policy on my blog (that I’m about to break). Like most Americans, and even many non-Americans, I have opinions regarding the recent US election. But I’ve never mentioned them or spoken about them here on this blog. For me my blog has always been a haven free of the strife, hate and bad feelings that politics brings. The world is divided enough without me I don’t need to add gasoline to the fire.
But what I saw today forced me to break my rule, for there was a red line that was crossed. When I first saw the meme proposing an “extermination” of one of the worlds largest faiths, I refuse to believe my eyes. What bothered me was not so much that some crazy person can post such a picture, I always knew terrible people exist. However, the fact that so many thousands of people liked reposted and commented favorably to that horrendous meme is terrifying. Did they even think what they were “liking”? We’re not talking about killing a serial killer, a rapist or cannibals, we’re talking about wiping out hundreds of millions of men, women, children, families, communities and countries, across every continent!
So you say, don’t take it so seriously, don’t be so technical, it was just a joke… and I say A JOKE? You’re joking about wiping out hundreds of millions of innocent people? What’s wrong with you? Who makes jokes of this sort? A decent human being wouldn’t exterminate flock of sheep… Did we not learn anything from recent history? We cannot afford to let demagogues preach hate and violence and simply let it go. [I didn’t compare anyone to Hitler, I would never. I just said that we have to learn from history.]
So, my dear Muslim brothers and sisters, as a Jew who has very clear and vivid imagery of the manifestation of ‘extermination’ threats, I shout out today NEVER AGAIN! It is not the first time in the election that people made terrible comments about your faith and your communities, but perhaps the snake of Islamomphobia is more poisonous than I thought. And I pray to God that people see its danger and kill that serpent before it kills all of us. For hate unleashed knows no borders, language, color or background.
And love is the same, in that way. So rather let’s engage in love and embrace each other, and our differences. In harmony and peace.
Categories: Islam, Islamophobia, White nationalism
Blogging Theology 
As an agnostics, I totally agree with you. Beautifully written 🙂
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Not that I’m condoning extermination here, but you do realize that the Muslim world both denies the Holocaust and actually supported Hitler? They hate Jews, many of them grow up being taught that Jews are evil, that Israel is illegitimate and that the end times won’t kick off until they begin exterminating the Jews.
Now, this isn’t some “Islamophobic” conspiracy theory, this is historic fact, backed by Islamic literature. I don’t deal with Muslims, I deal with what their doctrine says, and their doctrine is defined by their literature.
I’d be an idiot if I asserted that all Muslims are violent, infidel-hating, terrorists. However, that’s why I speak to their doctrine. Because it teaches that they’re supposed to be violent, infidel-hating terrorists.
If you doubt what I’m saying, feel free to swing by my blog page, and check out the posts I’ve written on the subject.
Anyways, I have to get back to work. Have a blessed day.
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‘I don’t deal with Muslims, I deal with what their doctrine says…’…
Yet you write, ‘They hate Jews…’.
Muslims hate Jews but not so much as to unleash a holocaust.
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I think historically muslims don’t hate Jews at all. they might not always be best friends, they are two different faiths and different opinions. but there wasn’t any special hatred for the most part.
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Listen, I live in Jerusalem, i’m familiar with the struggle between people who are Muslim and Jews. But their fight is not based in Islam, it’s a territorial fight.
and there are Muslim holocaust deniers, true. Mel Gibson I think registers as Christian though, and Hitler had many Christian sympathizers too. So what’s your point? The mufti of Jerusalem, was a man with a great amount of Jew hatred, what does that have to do with the faith of Islam? And there are muslims who want to exterminate all Jews, that true, too. but how many are they? there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world! even if there are 100,000,000 who want to wipe out the Jews you’re left with 1.5 who are good people. again, no point there. regarding the qoran, there are plenty of people on this blog who can address that point, i’m not a scholar in the qoran. but i can tell you this, something which is undeniable in history: with all ‘doctrine’ you mention, the Jews had relative bliss under Muslim rule, compared to complete terror under the christians. so if doctrine. you mention the holocaust. One of the noblest people of that era was the Muslim king of Morocco, check it out.
BTW what does David Duke and his supporters register as?
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Israel state is illegitimate with no doubt.
It’s illicit from Torah perspective and from secular perspective, especially the occupation of the WB.
Moreover, you have to know that many jews hold this idea that Isreal is an illegitimate state.
No doubt that Hitler was against jews. Yet they were not the only ones whom he was aganist too. Gypsies got killed by Hitler, yet no one has cried for them , no one has made museums for them!
Why ? Becuase they are not the ” chosen people” according to secular international community!
Also, Holocaust needs to be investigated if we want to be objetive especailly with numbers.
The most book labeled jews as evil if they dismissed the law of God is the Torah itself. Read what the Israelites prophets said about Jews who did exactly what the Israelites do in that ” state”.
This is what your doctrine says.
FYI, according to Islamic law which I think you have no idea about , it’s an ( obligation) to help the one who got suppressed if he asked help including jews. But don’t bother ! Keep kissing christians, as* .
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Abdullah besides for the last point i disagree with almost everything you said.
I’m not going into the legitimacy of Israel as a state, we won’t agree on that anyway, so what’s the point.
Regarding the gypsys, you’re right that Hitler hated them but incomparable to his hatred towards Jews. It’s a distortion to compare the two. Listen to his speeches and read mein kampf [both which i’ve done]. See for yourself. and I am a little bothered by the motive of trivializing the unprecedented suffering of a nation… the numbers add up. I grew up with the holocauset it was part of my life. most of my family from both sides were wiped out and the same was with most jews i know…
i gotta run now.
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Sorry to be so blunt, but most of the things you have said is absolute horsesh*t.
You have just accused 1.6 Billion Muslims of being anti-Jew, are you off your mind?
Yes, some Muslims were on Hitler’s side. You should ALSO point out just in Britain over 200.000 Muslims fought against Hitler:
http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/comment/second-world-war-record-of-muslims-is-worth-marking
Muslims who sacrificed their lives to saves Jews in WII
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/09/08/meet-the-muslims-who-sacrificed-themselves-to-save-jews-and-fight-nazis-in-world-war-ii/?utm_term=.fd386ed2c8a9
Some Christians and Jews fought for Hitler, what is your point?:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/museums/10682975/The-Jews-who-fought-for-Hitler-We-did-not-help-the-Germans.-We-had-a-common-enemy.html
Every community has bad people. No community is immune from this.
Please don’t swing over to your blog. Please post the things you have claimed is actual “doctrines” so we can examine them here and see if what you say has any truth to it.
Please go ahead post your evidence…
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well said!
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> the Muslim world both denies the Holocaust and actually supported Hitler
What nonsense.
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Oh?
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@ Ezekiel,
A Christian lecturing Muslms on hatred of the Jews – what an Irony!
I won’t bother visiting your worthless blog as I am sure it is filled with nothing but hatred against Muslims and anything Islam, the same venomous hatred that resulted in the Christian persecution of Jews and the holocaust.
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Well put!
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@ Ezeikial,
Your ignorance, bias, and hatred of Islam is palpable. As our Jewish friend Mozer accurately recognizes and pointed out, with a few exceptions the majority of Muslim and Jewish history was spent in peaceful coexistence, while this was entirely not so for the Jews living under Christian rule.
It is important to stress that Muslims don’t hate Jews categorically as a race or religion. What we hate is injustice!!
When Jews commit injustices against Muslims or other people, we dislike that since it is an immoral action and not in accordance with the core teachings of Abrahamic Faith. The same goes for anyone else who commits injustices, be they Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, secular etc. Hatred for the unjust action can sometimes unfortunately be blurred into hatred of a person or people, but this is born out of human weakness in the face of suffering, oppression, or chaos and confusion of war, etc. It is not due to the teachings of Islam when taken in full context.
Above all a Muslim who truly understands Islam correctly hates to see his own co-religionists committing injustice towards others (including Jews) since is that not according to the merciful teachings of Islam.
You can cherry pick our texts (as we can do with yours) but it doesn’t reflect the wholeness of Islamic theology, thought, and belief.
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👍
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Interesting that you greet my criticism of Islam with, I think they’re meant to be insults? I’m not sure. I saw something about hatred and the standard stuff people respond with, when anyone dares criticize Islam.
Oddly enough, when Muslims criticize Christians or Jews, we’re expected to roll over and take it. I guess what’s good for the goose isnt good for the gander. 😉
You can visit my “worthless” blog, or not. It’s entirely up to you. I very honestly don’t care whether you do or not. You aren’t hurting my feelings, either way.
Final note: I don’t hate anyone. On the contrary, my criticism comes from a place of love.
I’m morally bound to warn people when their actions are wrong. My research has made it clear to me that Allah isn’t the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. I rather suspect that he’s Satan, so why would I sit back and keep silent.
Given that the opposite of love is indifference, rather than hate, if I didn’t act out of love, I’d simply ignore all of you and go about my business. However, Jesus commanded us to love our enemies, as well as ourselves. I’m simply following the command of my Lord and Savior.
Anyways, have a blessed day. It’s my night off, and I’ll be spending it writing while my family sleeps.
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Muslim hate jews? How?
Yours is another product of islamophobes industry Our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) even gave respect and stood up for a deceased jew in one authentic narration.
One prominent counter missionary rabbi Tovia Singer resides in the world most populous muslim nation on earth. Have you ever heard that he has complains about his life there as a jew?
Be aware that some of R’ Tovia family was exterminated in holocaust: the fruit of new testament virulent anti jewish teaching. Hitler himself admittedly a christian.
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Not that Hitler’s supposed faith would have any bearing on what Christianity actually is, but here’s an article on the subject you might find enlightening. Side note: I’m not Catholic. http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/common-misconceptions/was-hitler-a-christian.html
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“The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement) was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.”
[Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf”, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch03.html
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
fighter. ”
[Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922,]
http://www.hitler.org/speeches/04-12-22.html
Sure Hitler was a christian.
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Have you considered that he was nothing more than a brilliant propagandist? Also, have you considered that I could declare myself a mushroom, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m human? My point is, Hitler’s actions can’t be justified in any way by the teachings of Christ. Therefore, he wasn’t a Christian. I mean, if I’d declared myself a Muslim, but refused to behave as such, would I still be a Muslim, a hypocrite or an apostate?
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Yours is the one which is clearly (anti Islam) propagandist. Those and many more quotes were Hitler own admission that he his christianity was the source of his actions.
Look it’s not about who claim about the thing he wasn”t , anti semitism in the new testament is clear as daylight, it is a fact. Go and read many scholary unbiased writings/books about this topics not from deceitful missionary sites.
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Show me Scripture. Show me where Jesus encouraged His followers to subjugate the Jews, given that He was a Jew…
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Worst than subjugation Jesus reportedly labeled jews as : “You have the devil as your father.” Jh 8:44
This is the very expression which cost millions of Jewish lives as shown in history: a license to eradicate Jews.
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Here’s the entire passage surrounding that verse. You should try looking at the wider context. Jesus is making a clear statement that Sin separates us from God, who sent Him. If we’re separate from our Father, that makes us children of the Devil. He’s teaching that they need salvation, which is offered through Him ans the Messiah.
John 8:31-47, Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are
“31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[b]”
39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
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That is not what your theologians understood it. Hear what Martin Luther said about the jews..
From: The History of Anti-Semitism, translated from the French by Richard Howard, Léon Poliakov, Vanguard, Volume One (The History of Anti-Semitism, Volume 1: From the Time of Christ to the Court …), 1965: [p.219]
‘A few months later another pamphlet appeared: Schem Hamephoras, in which Luther’s curses became even more frenzied. Here he is not concerned with the Jews’ usury and graft, but only wit their captious reasoning, and their witchcraft. This is, then, a theological polemic, but in what a tone! In the preface, Luther specifies that he is not writing to convert the Jews but merely to edify the Germans: “…so that we Germans may know what a Jew is….For it is as easy to convert a Jew as to convert the Devil. A Jew, a Jewish heart, are hard as wood, as stone, as iron, as the Devil himself. In short, they are children of the Devil, condemned to the flames of hell….” Later he contrasts the apocryphal gospels of the Jews, which are specious and false, with the four canonical Gospels whose truth is evident. His exegesis is interspersed with remarks of this kind:
“Perhaps some merciful and holy soul among us Christians will be of the opinion that I am too rough with these poor and pitiable Jews, mocking and deriding them. O Lord, I am much too feeble to mock such devils. I would do so, but they are much stronger than I in raillery, and they have a God who is a past master in this art; he is called the Devil and the wicked spirit….”
In other passages Luther indulges in obscene buffoonery: “…Cursed goy that I am, I cannot understand how they manage to be so skillful, unless I think that when Judas Iscariot hanged himself, his guts burst and emptied. Perhaps the Jews sent their servants with plates of silver and pots of gold to gather up Judas’ piss with the other treasures, and then they ate and drank his offal, and thereby acquired eyes so piercing that they discover in the Scriptures commentaries that neither Matthew nor Isaiah himself found there, not to mention the rest of us cursed goyim….”‘ .
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So, your contention is that I should adhere to another person’s interpretation of Scripture, rather than read it for myself?
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Btw I’ve read “on the Jews and their lies” by Luther. It’s the most antisemetic book aside from mein kampf… full of poison, imagine Germans being fed this venom for three centuries before the war, no wonder I guess.
I read it on a plane sitting nexto a Lutheran pastor, it was super awkward 😉
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I can imagine how you feel.. I bet you read it in original german?
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No in English, Henry Ford translation
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Oh btw you are an azhkenaaz right, so do you read and speak German?
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I am ashkenazi and speak Yiddish which was German 1000 years ago. It’s now pretty much a language of it’s own. But I do understand German pretty well..
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“Our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) even gave respect and stood up for a deceased jew in one authentic narration”
The narration is found in Bukhari and Muslim. It’s more than authentic.
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And? Hitler occasionally smiled, but it doesn’t change the fact that he was a monster.
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“And? Hitler occasionally smiled, but it doesn’t change the fact that he was a monster.”
That becuase he was a christian. He can be a snake & dove in the same time.
“am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves”
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First off, Hitler was no Christian. Show me where Jesus taught that genocide was acceptable. By all means, show me.
Second, even if he had professed faith in Christ, which he didn’t, it doesn’t change the fact that Christianity isn’t defined by one particularly monstrous person.
Third, you’re misusing that verse. Jesus states that He’s sending them out as sheep among wolves, which means He knows they will be in constant danger.
His advice to them is to behave themselves (innocent as doves), but be mindful of their tricks (shrewd as snakes). In other words, be kind, keep out of trouble, but know that the Enemy will be seeking to take you down.
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This guy still doesn’t get it. Ezekiel Project contends Islam is the most anti-Jewish thing ever. Yet the holocaust wasn’t carried out by Muslims.
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Nor was it carried out by Christians. While some of them might have claimed to be Christians, Jesus never preached genocide. Show me, chapter and verse, complete with the appropriate context, which of Jesus’ teachings would have justified the Holocaust. Given that He is supposed to be our ideal, our model for behavior, I fail to see how you can make your case.
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//First off, Hitler was no Christian. Show me where Jesus taught that genocide was acceptable. By all means, show me…//
Yes he was. He said it. Hiler believe that he was acting acting according to the purposes of the Almighty Creator. In resisting the Jew, he was fighting his Lord’s battle.
Understandable from your book, Hitler just followed his lord: Jesus, instruction to murder all enemy inhabitants including elderly men and women, mature men and women, pregnant women, youths, boys, girls, infants and newborns.
and oh well, not only that Jesus even ordered to smash innocent baby skulls into the rocks.
I can cite you the references if you are too lazy to find it yourself.
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By all means, prove your assertion by showing your sources. I want book, chapter and verse.
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In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, your jesus ordered genocide, make sure nothing was spared including – women, children, infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
In psalm 137:8-9 , your jesus praises those who seizes infants and then smashes them against the rocks.
Should I quote more?
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Ezekiel, forgets that in the name of Christianity over 100 million Native Indians and Africans were slaughtered, raped and some were forcefully converted to Christianity.
Many Natives were forcefully converted to Christianity, using the Bible.
Don’t forget millions of aborigines slaughtered and raped by Christian Europeans all using the Bible as their justification. KKK slaughtered African americans for many years using the Bible.
George Bush and his side-chick Blair murdered over a 1 Million Iraqis, they said this is a “Crusade”, Blair said that God came to him in a dream to go to war.
Misery and conflict in Iraq continues to this very day all because Blair and Bush were INSPIRED by the Christian god to spread misery and detruction in the name of the Bible.
You said “show me from the Bible where Jesus commanded any of that”.
Jesus is God of the Old Testament, he ordered massacres of women, children and even animals. Read Numbers 31:17-18.
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/07/a-detailed-historical-examination-of-numbers-3118/
There are many more verses from your Bible
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the 4th gospel does not have jesus loving “synagogue of satan” and people in johns community are riled up against the jewish people
quote :
So the reason the fourth Gospel does not include Jesusʼ teaching that one must love oneʼs neighbor/enemy (and also does not include the teaching found in Matthewʼs Sermon on the Mount about how “loving oneʼs neighbor is the law and the prophets”) is that your neighbor might not share your “beliefs” about Jesus, so heʼs “damned already,” and the most important thing according to the author(s) of the fourth Gospel is to “believe” the right things about who Jesus was… or else one is “damned already,” one has “no life within you,” one is “cut off and thrown into the fire.” It is a lesson the author of the fourth Gospel repeats ad nauseam, “Anyone who does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.” (a verse that came in handy during the Inquisition). “Those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” You must even believe the right liturgical things concerning the Lordʼs Supper, because “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” Speaking of right belief, the Gospel says it was composed “that ye may believe,” and starts off telling everyone what to believe about Jesus, and has the disciples call Jesus the messiah and much more the instant they meet him, and even has John the Baptist declare what one must believe about Jesus (a line found in no other Gospel), namely that Jesus is “The lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world,” something one “must” believe per John 3.
/////
just like the hebrew rituals which separated the jews from the rest of the world, the christian rituals united them with their pagan brethren against the jews.
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A: existence impels the jew to lie, and to lie perpetually just as it compels the inhabitants of the northern countries to wear warm clothing
B: you are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires… when he lies, he speaks according to his own nature for he is a liar and the father of lies.
remember, “b” comes from the gospel of john in which one must have the “right” beliefs and rituals about jesus.
“a” comes from adolf hitler. damn do they sound alike!
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That’s scary…
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@ Ezekiel,
You said, “My point is, Hitler’s actions can’t be justified in any way by the teachings of Christ. Therefore, he wasn’t a Christian.”
Funny how Christians always like to make excuses for Hitler.
Who determines who is and who isn’t a Christian… you? Hitler was a Baptized Catholic, I agree his views were skewed but he was still a Christian. And yet, Hitlers twisted views and actions are still justified by Paul’s Gospel of freedom from the Law, which rejected the law of the Torah. Therefore there is no boundary, no line, no limit that cannot be transgressed while still remaining a “Good Christian.” The anti-Semitic passages attributed to Jesus, and found elsewhere in the Bible, along with the Christian and virulently anti-semtic writings of Luther certainly must have contributed to his dark designs. To turn a blind eye to these facts seems ignorant at best, and disingenuous at worst.
End result of Paul’s innovated Gospel of Freedom (short list) = genocide of American Indian and australian Aborigine, Black Slavery, war, death, destruction, inquisition, numerous Crusades, Christian supremacism KKK, missionary deceit, Christian backed Colonialist Imperialism, and yes, THE HOLOCAUST!!!
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@ Ezekiel,
“Christianity isn’t defined by one particularly monstrous person.”
And yet it is defined by one person more than any other – Paul and his innovated monstrous twin headed doctrine of Faith based redemption and the Gospel of freedom.
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@ Ezeikiel,
You said, “Also, have you considered that I could declare myself a mushroom, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m human?”
And you can declare your hateful Christian preaching “Love” but it doesn’t change the fact that it is really hate targeted at anyone who does not subscribe to your particular brand of Christianity..
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//So, your contention is that I should adhere to another person’s interpretation of Scripture, rather than read it for myself?//
Good if you have your *own* sensible interpretation… alas…you are nobody in christendom , that’s why history has shown us that christians committed the bulk of atrocities against humanity like the holocaust.
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Mozer G. Said
“I think historically muslims don’t hate Jews at all. they might not always be best friends, they are two different faiths and different opinions. but there wasn’t any special hatred for the most part.”
Hmmm lets see what Maimonides had to say about your lovable Muslims.
“Even though Maimonides lived during 3 of the 4 crusades this is what he had to say about the
followers of the Madman Mohamed.
“Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they. Therefore when
David, of blessed memory, inspired by the holy spirit, envisaged the future tribulations of Israel,
he bewailed and lamented their lot only in the Kingdom of Ishmael, and prayed in their behalf,
for their deliverance, as is implied in the verse, "Woe is me, that I sojourn with Meschech, that I
dwell beside the tents of Kedar." (Psalms 120:5). Note the distinction between Kedar and the
children of Ishmael, for the Madman and imbecile is of the lineage of the children of Kedar as
they readily admit. Daniel alludes only to our humiliation and degradation "like the dust in
threshing" suffered at the hands of the Arabs, may they speedily be vanquished, when he
says, "And some of the host and of the stars it cast down to the ground, and trampled upon
them." (8:10). Although we were dishonored by them beyond human endurance, and had to put
with their fabrications, yet we behaved like him who is depicted by the inspired writer, "But I am
as a deaf man, I hear not, and I am as a dumb man that openeth not his mouth." (Psalms
38:14). Similarly our sages instructed us to bear the prevarications and preposterousness of
Ishmael in silence.”
He continues…
“All this notwithstanding, we do not escape this continued maltreatment which well nigh
crushes us. No matter how much we suffer and elect to remain at peace with them, they stir
up strife and sedition”
Yah “historically muslims don’t hate Jews at all” LOL
Stupid Christ Hating Jew
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Kmac, while I agree with much of what you said here, and believe me those sources are new to me, your last statement a bit over the line. One of the things I dislike more than anything is people who call names, while debating anything. As for the resources, I’ll have to check them out and add them to my list. Thanks for the addition.
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You’re right. There were terrible Muslims throughout history read Maimonides’ epistle to Yemen. Read the Ohr Hachaim they both 500 years apart and suffered terribly under the Muslim rule. But there’s a handful of such accounts from Jews and their rabbis probably not more than ten. Compare that to living under the cruel and ruthless Church for 2000 years. Jews did not know a good day in Europe, where Jews were protected in one land they were persecuted in the neighboring one and then the way around, I’m not Christ hating the Christ guys are the haters and blood thirsty killers…
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Ezekiel, the source is The Letter to the Yemens. And as far as my statement of fact, Mozer G is a Christ Hater, an Anti Christ if you will, he is a Jew and any Jew that would say “I think historically muslims don’t hate Jews at all.” is down right stupid at best.
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Or misinformed, my friend. That’s my purpose, to share the Gospel, so that people won’t be.
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The gospel that says “I have not come to bring peace but the sword” I don’t know the exact quote but something like that… christians really made that statement true
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Yeah, some took it a bit too literally. The quote is from the Book of Matthew, I don’t recall immediately the chapter and verse, and I’m at work so not much of a chance I can sit down with my Bible. What He was saying was that His mission was going to disrupt the social order of things. His intent was to bring people away from the legalistic religious formalism that Judaism had become, amd lead people back to God. Believe it or not, Jesus’ message is very anti-religious, which is why I’m non-denominational. He came to heal people, convict them of their Sin and take their punishment for them, so that they may gain entrance into the Kingdom of God.
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interesting that you give the NT the freedom of explaning and twisting its clear words. and you talk about the people who misused it as ‘some’. while when the quran says something that can be interpreted in many ways you choose to force the face value commentary. The hypocrisy is almost funny…
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Mozer, try reading the entire NT. If you were to read it in its entirety, you might actually change your tune. As for those verses in the Qur’an, I don’t see how they could be any clearer.
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Woe onto you scribes and Pharisees serpents generations of vipers hypocrites… that in the Quran??
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Nope. I don’t see genocide in that statement, either. Only condemnation for Sin. Here’s a video series that goes deeper into the whole thing. It’s in Hebrew, with English subtitles, and the guys who produce it are Messianic Jews. They’re part of an organization called One for Israel.
Eitan & Moti Answering Rabbis’ Objections to Jesus: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXiBkdTbRi-zx-ZHrrh4lN0w9QUWF0okN
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They are Jews who were born secular, like micheal brown and others with no prior Jewish education, technically their argument is as relevant as the pope’s. It’s not different than church arguments 1800 years ago. Boring. Lame. Didn’t convince me then aren’t more convincing now. A Jew that learned the verse “Hear O Israel Lord our God the Lord is One” when he was thirty and he leaned it from someone who believes in a human… is not “messianic Jews” they are ignorant Jews who worship a human mangod… I am a messianic Jew. I await a messiah, a prophet, a king that will bring peace not the sword…
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I’m laughing… I grew up in the states. I didn’t know a single Muslim in my life until I moved to Jerusalem at the age of 20… the only people I knew [outside of my community] were Christian. I think most of them are nice people. And then there are zealots, like yourself.
Had you read your words and replaced the christian references with Muslim ones you would consider the writer an ISIS sympathizer and a terrorist. and i would agree, and so would most normal people. therefore, you are a hypocrite for spewing hatred, encouraging violence and disgusting accusations. you are not better than the Muslim zealot you and I think is a threat for humanity. You both are the reason for bloodshed and terror in the world.
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Jews lived in Yemen for 2000 years, for the most part it was very peaceful. they lived in Tunisia, Morocco, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Egypt [where Maimonides was the private physician for the sultan, and among the most respected doctors in Alexandria] Iran. They paid their extra tax happily and had all the rights they needed. There were no ghettos [which there were in Europe since the 1500 hundreds.] there were no blood libels. No inquisitions. No forced conversion [aside for a handful of times throughout 1400 years] No mass killings. No burning of the Talmud. No censoring the Jewish scriptures. No honor killings on holidays. No forced debates and horrendous aftermaths of winning a christian pastor. I can go on and on. The history books are filled with bloody chapters under christian rule. you don’t begin to fathom what Jews suffered under the name of Jesus. For instance, the Jews have a tradition every year that on the day that the temple was destroyed [9 of Av 70 ce] we fast and sit on the floor. There’s a whole book of lamentations that we say together [BTW this is in every Jewish community, regardless European or from the East] The rabbis throughout the years wrote their lamentations primarily on what we suffered since the destruction of the Temple. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THEM ARE IN REGARD TO THE CHRISTIANS. NOT A SINGLE ONE IS ABOUT THE MUSLIM RULE!!! if you have an ounce of honesty [which I seriously doubt you have] you’ll learn a historical message from this
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Kmac and I aren’t the same person. The former is a dishonest piece of sh’it.
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Yes and the latter is a foul mouthed Jew hating ISIS supporting Muslim.
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Jews are qouting Ibn Maimoun while he was himself a product of Islamic philosophy. He was just a reflection of Ibn Rushd.
If you take a closer look, you will find muslims suffered more under the rule of Ibn Tumart in Morocco. There’s a tendency among jews to read the history as if it’s evolved around them while this is not the case.
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Kamc,
You are the most religious people who have killed jews and others by the name of the christ. You have a bloody record more than any people on this earth. Stop telling us how “loving” you are.
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Brother Kmak
“Kmac” is “Radical moderate” aka Bob Wells, I think, a nasty christian troll regular visitor of this blog.
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Let’s put those “lovey dovey” people under the test based on their own doctrine.
Christians keep arguing that their religion is true since they present God as “All loving God”, and love is essential of Who God is, ” it’s a prat of his essence “(as Nabeel likes to phrase it).
Based on that, I’m wondering…. !
I mean that “all loving God” kept teaching his the most beloved people that he’s not a man nor son of man in such that they wouldn’t even imagine that their God is a man! ,yet he punished them severely because they didn’t believe he is a man dying!
Also,the problem proceeds even further when we know that “all loving God” kept teaching his the most beloved people to keep the commandments to be holy/saved, and he would punish them severely if they didn’t ( and that happened many times to israelites ) while that “all loving God” had already known that no one can be holy/saved by keeping the commandments except by his death on the cross!
It seems for me, that “all loving god” had shackled his the most beloved people for more than 1500 years, while he commanded them repeatedly to swim via vast deep ocean!, and If they failed, he would punish them severely.
So I’m just wondering what kind of love is that ?
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Do you discipline your children when they misbehave?
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“Do you discipline your children when they misbehave?”
Whaaaat?!
Would you command your beloved little children to get a Ph degree, and if he could not, you would punish him severely!?
The poor jews! Even when their god decided to show his love although he is the one who had kept teaching them that he is not a man, and they had to keep his commandments, he came to hang out with parables that even his own disciples could not understand that he is the god coming to die for them!
Christians believe firmly that it’s not rational for jews not to believe in Jesus being god,and how evil they are to do so, so they have been killing them for more than 1700 years.
This mentality tries to teach us about “love”!
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The Ezekiel Project
December 15, 2016 • 9:01 am
Do you discipline your children when they misbehave?”
you have no respect for the jewish bible. moses told the people to love God with all your heart and all your soul and all your body.
God says that the laws and rituals are not for “discipline when they misbehave”
he said they have to be obeyed and not broken.
when moses was doing the jewish rituals was he loving God or God was disciplining him?
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Ezekiel Project.
Mozer and the Muslims on this blog are demonstrating how to have peace in the middle east.
You have Muslims such as KMAK admitting that Muslims hate Jews, they just hate them less than the Nazi’s.
You got Mozer who writes an article on this blog attacking Christ as the long awaited Jewish Messiah and the Muslims praise him writing such an article.
So you have Muslims that hate Jews, and Jews that hate Christ.
What could bring these two groups to together? Hating Christ, Christianity, and Christians.
They quote verses from God who is condemning them and then point the finger and judge him by those very words.
Mozer tell me are these words from the Tanak or the NT
“But if you or your descendants turn away from me and do not observe the commands and decrees I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them, 7 then I will cut off Israel from the land I have given them and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. Israel will then become a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples. 8 This temple will become a heap of rubble. All who pass by will be appalled and will scoff and say, ‘Why has the Lord done such a thing to this land and to this temple”
Tell me why is the “temple …a heap of rubble.” Tell us “‘Why has the Lord done such a thing to this land and to this temple” Tell me why is Israel “an object of ridicule among all peoples.” especially Muslims on this blog?
Is it because “The children of Israel and the children of Judah have done only evil before Me from their youth.”
Is it because as the LORD said “”I have seen these people,” … and they are a stiff-necked people.
Tell me is did Jesus say these words?
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“But if you or your descendants turn away from me and do not observe the commands and decrees I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them, ”
idolatry, man worship, flesh worship and other crimes could be one of the biggest reasons why the temple was destroyed.
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Mr Heathcliff wrote…
“man worship, flesh worship”
Really? Thats interesting when did the Jews perform “man worship” or “flesh worship”, and what man or flesh where they worshiping?
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robert wells, i just made it all up. why don’t you search the internet and look at what the jews say about the reasons?
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Mozer G,
“The mufti of Jerusalemwas a man with a great amount of Jew hatred”
Oh God! The same narrow view of christians!
Read the biogrphy of that man with its own context! He had livd under the occupation ( colonial period) for alomst 30 years! Those occupier happened to be the enemies of Hitler. At that time, many countries didn’t consider Germany as an enemy. Were all of them jews hatred?
Mufti met Hitler! yet you forgot that some Zionist wings had met Hitler to push jews to move for a new land.
I mean what sould we say about Shimon Peres or Ariel Sharon then?
I challenge all zionists whether they are jews or christians to prove that muslims hate jews becuase they are jews. It’s a challenge!
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Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:
I heard Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] saying, “The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!’ ”
Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:
Allah’s Apostle said, “You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, ‘O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ ”
Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6981:
Ibn ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him.
Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6983:
Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.
Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6984:
Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.
Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985:
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
Here’s an interesting article by Nonie Darwish:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/08/why_muslims_must_hate_jews.html
O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)
Sahih Muslim 6665—Abu Musa reported that Allah’s Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.
Sahih Muslim 6666—Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.
Sahih Muslim 6668—Allah’s Messenger [said]: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.
110 Hadith Qudsi—Allah’s Messenger said: On the Day of Resurrection, my Ummah (nation) will be gathered into three groups. One sort will enter Paradise without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned an easy account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say: Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians: then let the humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy.
Finally, there’s this nice chant about the Battle of Khybar:
In Islamic tradition, the chant “Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud,” which means, “Jews, remember Khaybar, the army of Muhammad is returning,” is used as a battle cry when attacking Jews or Israelis. (Courtesy of The Jerusalem Post, article found at http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Ramadan-Series-Khaybar-re-enforces-anti-Semitic-stereotypes-319568#article=0NUM4OTVDRTNFQkY3NUE5N0FBMUFDQzhCMEUxNjQ3ODU=)
Y’all can decide for yourselves. Have a blessed day.
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These Hadith speak about the end of days. Did you know the war would NOT be started by the Muslims, but the other side?
Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported that Allah’s Messenger said: The Jews will FIGHT AGAINST YOU and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.” (Sahih Muslim Book 41, Hadith 6984)
And
Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying, “The Jews WILL FIGHT WITH YOU, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!’ ” (Sahih al-Bukhari volume 4, Book 56, Hadith 791)
As you see the aggression and war is started by the other side, NOT the Muslims.
A similar idea is in Christianity but much worse in the Bible. It is said Jesus would come back in the end of days and slaughter innocent Jews and other faiths because they do not accept Jesus as the Messiah:
“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—BRING THEM HERE AND KILL THEM IN FRONT OF ME.’ ” (Luke 19:27)
Commentary on the Bible, by Mathew Henry he states:
“In the sentence passed upon them at his return: Those mine enemies bring hither, v. 27. When his faithful subjects are preferred and rewarded, THEN HE WILL TAKE VENGEANCE ON HIS ENEMIES, AND PARTICULARLY ON THE JEWISH NATION, THE DOOM OF WHICH IS HERE READ. When Christ had set up his gospel kingdom, and thereby put reputation upon the gospel ministry, then he comes to reckon with the Jews; then it is remembered against them that they had particularly disclaimed and protested against his kingly office, when they said, We have no king but Cæsar, nor would own him for their king. They appealed to Cæsar, and to Cæsar they shall go; Cæsar shall be their ruin. Then the kingdom of God appeared when vengeance was taken on those irreconcilable enemies to Christ and his government; they were brought forth and slain before him. Never was so much slaughter made in any war as in the wars of the Jews. That nation lived to see Christianity victorious in the Gentile world, in spite of their enmity and opposition to it, and then it was taken away as dross. The wrath of Christ came upon them to the uttermost (1 Thess. ii. 15, 16), and their destruction redounded very much to the honour of Christ and the peace of the church. But this is applicable to all others who persist in their infidelity, and will undoubtedly perish in it. Note, [1.] Utter ruin will certainly be the portion of all Christ’s enemies; in the day of vengeance they shall all be brought forth, and slain before him. Bring them hither, to be made a spectacle to saints and angels; see Josh. x. 22, 24. Bring them hither, that they may see the glory and happiness of Christ and his followers, whom they hated and persecuted. Bring them hither, to have their frivolous pleas overruled, and to receive sentence according to their merits. Bring them, and slay them before me, as Agag before Samuel. The Saviour whom they have slighted will stand by and see them slain, and not interpose on their behalf. [2.] THOSE THAT WILL NOT HAVE CHRIST TO REIGN OVER THEM SHALL BE REPUTED AND DEALT WITH AS HIS ENEMIES. WE ARE READY TO THINK THAT NONE ARE CHRIST’S ENEMIES BUT PERSECUTORS OF CHRISTIANITY, OR SCOFFERS AT LEAST; BUT YOU SEE THAT THOSE WILL BE ACCOUNTED SO THAT DISLIKE THE TERMS OF SALVATION, WILL NOT SUBMIT TO CHRIST’S YOKE, BUT WILL BE THEIR OWN MASTERS. NOTE, WHOEVER WILL NOT BE RULED BY THE GRACE OF CHRIST WILL INEVITABLY BE RUINED BY THE WRATH OF CHRIST.[14]
Online source:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc5.Luke.xx.html
Please don’t mispresent Quran 5:51:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2014/12/01/can-christians-and-jews-be-friends-with-muslims/
Why don’t you tell readers that Muslims are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women?
Do you even know why the battle of khaybar was undertaken?
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/03/25/the-battle-of-khaybar/
And:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/04/safiyyah-huyayy-kinana-and-khaybar-affair/
Please read our sources in context and don’t mispresent our sources. I don’t blame you, you must have learned these things from Anti-Islam/Anti-Muslim sites.
Have a good day
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In John 14:6, Jesus states, “6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
From the beginning, Jesus made it clear that He came to atone for the Sin of all mankind. He also made it clear that His sacrifice was completely dependent upon a person’s willingness to accept His Substitutionary Atonement. No acceptance, no atonement.
In other words, He only paid for the Sin of those who accept payment. Otherwise, those who reject His sacrifice will face God with the full burden of their Sin. I don’t suppose I have to tell you what comes next. God loves us too much to force us to be with Him. As the old saying goes, “If you love someone, let them go…”
Given that, I submit that Jesus won’t condemn a single person to Hell. Not a one. He will simply, and lovingly, allow them to go down the road of their choosing.
In effect, those sent to Hell condemned themselves, because they were made aware of the choice they faced: an eternity spent with our Lord and Savior, or oblivion. With the exception of babies and those mentally unable to choose, no one escapes that choice.
The verse from Luke you’ve included is from the Parable of the Ten Minas. (Luke 19:11-27) A lot of people like to use that verse, without the surrounding passage, when listing their objections to Christianity. Interesting, when you read the whole thing and put it in its context.
The King in this parable is Jesus. His trip to receive His Kingship sybolizes His trip to the Cross and His subsequent resurrection.
While He’s gone, His servants (us) are charged with making His money (that would be His Kingdom) grow. Those who do as He commanded, in His absence, are greatly rewarded upon His return (the Second Coming), while the servent who did nothing with His charge is severely punished.
The command to bring in those who would not have Him as their King refers to those who deny Him, His death and resurrection and His divinity. The action of killing them in front of Him is symbolic of His final judgement on Judgement Day. As I said, He was clear from the beginning on what choice lay before all of humanity.
Of course you’re allowed to marry unbelieving women, Muslim women just can’t marry unbelieving men. It’s so that Islam can slowly stamp out other faiths, by attrition. I mean, let’s be honest here, if you were married to a Christian woman, which faith would your children follow? Islam? Christianity?
I don’t believe I’ve been misled. I’m perfectly capable of reading and comprehension, I own a copy of the Qur’an, as well as Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and various other texts. I do my own research, though it does include materials from anti-Islamic sites, given that they aren’t burdened with the practice of Taqiyya.
No worries though, I do study the arguments of Muslim apologists as well. I do have a lot of respect for Shabir Ally. Very smart man. Zakir Naik, not so much.
Anyways, I look forward to your response. Have a blessed day.
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Oh! So you wanna play the missionaries’ games!?
Ok! Let’s play it.
Bismillah
First of all, the first 7 hadiths that you posted are authentic. I believe in them all.
However, christian missionaries have forgotten to tell you that those hadiths are about (the end of time).
Basically, the prophetﷺ was telling a (prophecy) which will happen in the future, and it will be in a context of (WAR). I don’t see them as something agianst jews.
In fact, there are many hadiths about fighting other nations which have already happened such as Fighting Mongolian people !
The prophetﷺ said :
“The Last Hour would not come until a people wearing shoes of hair fight against you having their faces like hammered shields” Sahih Muslim 293 .
Why didn’t the Mongols complain about that hadith? Because they are the ones who attacked muslims!
So, please don’t make everything special about you!
These hadiths are not but proofs that the prophet ﷺ is a messenger from Allah.
Does the bible have similar prophecies?
The answer is a big fat YES.
What will you do as “chosen people” for the other nations?
Isaiah 11:14
“They(you) shall swoop down on the shoulder of the Philistines in the west, and together they shall plunder the people of the east. They shall put out their hand against Edom and Moab, and the Ammonites shall obey them”
What about the “prince of peace”?
Matthew 8:10-13
“When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel[d] have I found such faith. 11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
What about Moses?
Deuteronomy 31:27
“For I know how rebellious and stubborn you are. Behold, even today while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the LORD. How much more after my death!”
Random warnings against jews the “chosen people” if they dismissed the Torah and its teachings as the founders of the Zionism have done:
Deuteronomy 28
“The Lord will send on you curses, confusion, and frustration in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken me. 21 The Lord will make the pestilence stick to you until he has consumed you off the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease and with fever, inflammation and fiery heat, and with drought[a] and with blight and with mildew. They shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And the heavens over your head shall be bronze, and the earth under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder. From heaven dust shall come down on you until you are destroyed.”
Leviticus 26:17-18
“I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you.
If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over”
What about YHWH?
Ezekiel 2
“Son of man, I send you to the people of Israel, to nations of rebels, who have rebelled against me. ((They and their fathers have transgressed against me to this very day)) “!
This is not in Quran nor in Sunnah. It’s in your own bible.
====================
Regarding bearing the sins of christians and jews. This hadiths is authentic for Imam Muslim and many
scholars of Islam, yet it’s not authentic according to Imam Bukhari, and he explained that in his book “Al Tareekh Al Kabeer”. However, as muslims we have major rules & principles in Islamic jurisprudence if we want to conclude a verdict from any hadiths. For example, we don’t interpret what it’s not clear in light of what it’s clear.
Imam Al-Nawawi said in his commentary:
“The meaning of this hadith is the same as the hadith narrated by Abu Hurayrah: “For each person there is a place in Paradise and a place in Hell.” When the believer enters Paradise, his place in Hell is taken over by the kaafir(disbeliever) because he deserves that because of his kufr. The meaning of the phrase “your ransom from the Fire” is that you could have entered Hell, but this is your ransom because Allaah has decreed a certain number to fill it; when the kuffaar enter Hell because of their kufr and sins, this is like a ransom for the Muslims. With regard to the report, “On the Day of Resurrection, some of the Muslims will come with sins” – Allaah will forgive the Muslims these sins and will absolve them of them, and He will put the like of those sins onto the Jews and Christians because of their kufr and sins. So they will enter Hell because of their own actions, not because of the sins of the Muslims. This report has to be interpreted in this manner, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden” [Faatir 35:18]
My advice for you to read this blog and others instead of hanging out with christians.
Regarding Khaybar,when the people of Khaybar(jews) killed ‘Abdullah ibn Sahl, a companion of the prophet, he Prophet ﷺ did not rule that they had to pay the diyah (blood money), and he did not punish them for their crime, because there (was no clear evidence against them) .The Prophet ﷺ even paid his companion’s blood money from the wealth of the Muslims. The story is in al-Bukhaari (6769).
Finally, you have to know that it’s permitted to marry a jewish woman according to Quran. Give this permission some thoughts.
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First off, my friend, I’m a Christian. I say this because I get the impression that you think I’m Jewish. I’m what’s known as a non-denominational Christian, which means I don’t hold to a particular doctrine, such as Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc. Their divisions are man-made, and I’m seeking God through Jesus. While the two aren’t mutually exclusive, I find it much easier when I don’t have to deal with the trappings of religiosity.
Now that we’ve cleared the air on that, let’s move on. I’ll begin by apologizing for taking so long to respond. I work overnight, which means I sleep during the day. Needless to say, you won’t receive this until I’ve slept. No sense in dealing with such things when I’m too tired to think clearly. 😆
I’ll begin by saying, I don’t know what you mean by “missionaries games”. I’ve not heard that term before. If by that you mean well read and aware, then ya got me. However, I suspect that isn’t the case, so perhaps you’d like to clarify?
That being said, this isn’t a game. In the final assessment, it’s all about salvation, isn’t it? One side will save as many as possible, before the Day of Judgement, while the other will condemn many more. Our job is to figure out which is which.
Speaking of the end of times, that’s why I posted those passages. One of my assertions is that Islam teaches that the end times won’t start until there is a major Muslim vs Jewish war. So, there wasn’t a mistake there, you just missed part of what I said.
Your comment about the Mongolians is funny, however you and I both know it’s really beside the point. The reason why has to do with what happens in this Muslim vs Jewish war. I’m referring, of course, to Imam al-Mahdi and what Islam teaches about him.
As I recall, that’s what is supposed to be the beginning of the end, the day when all will be judged. That’s rather a bit more significant than some war against the Mongolians.
It’s interesting that you chose Isaiah 11 as a case in point, as it fortells the return of Israel. It’s an end times prophesy which foretells the victory of Israel over its enemies.
Your reference to Matthew 8 is also interesting. The verse you chose is from Matthew 8:5-13, The Faith of the Centurian. This is the story of a Roman Centurian who came to Jesus and asked Him to heal his servant. Because of the Centurian’s faith, He chooses to do as he asked.
Now, the specific verse you cited is making reference to the fact that Gentiles from the East and West would come to faith in Christ, while many among the Hebrew people would spurn Him.
It seems rather fitting, given that Jesus was crystal clear about the choice to follow Him. All people are commanded to either follow Him, or not. Our choice, which includes all of the consequences therein. Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life…”(John 14:6) As He makes clear He’s the only way to the Father, people have a choice to make, and He isn’t interested in forcing people to follow Him.
Your references in the Book of Deuteronomy are very interesting. Here’s why. In 1867, the American author, Mark Twain, traveled to the Holy Lands, and found a desolate land. He said, in his book “Innocents Abroad”, “….. A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds… a silent mournful expanse…. a desolation…. we never saw a human being on the whole route…. hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.”
Compare that description to Israel today. What’s the difference? The difference is who’s in charge. Once the Jews began returning to the Holy Lands, fulfilling the prophesy in Isaiah 11, among many others, the entire landscape woke up and came back to full life.
That isn’t coincidence, that’s God’s favor, through His covenant with His people. Why do you think the Jews enjoy success and abundance nearly everywhere they go? Why did Muhammad hate them enough to wipe out one tribe and chase two more out? Why do you think Hitler hated them? God’s favor, and His promise to make Israel a great nation.
On the reference from Leviticus, there were many times throughout the history of Israel when the people began to move away from God. They chose rebellion and disobedience, and had to be punished for it.
Sin is living apart from God, running away from God and insisting on defying His Law. There were several points where the people of Israel did just that, and God dealt with it.
Do you know else He did? Every time He let them fall, He eventually brought them back. He eventually brought Israel back, and restored her. Just as had happened in 1948, when Israel came back to life.
The verse in Ezekiel 2 that you’re referencing is Ezekiel 2:3-5. Here’s Benson’s Commentary on this passage, “Ezekiel 2:3-5. I send thee to the children of Israel — God had for many ages been sending to them his servants the prophets, but to little purpose: they were now sent into captivity for abusing God’s messengers; and yet even there God raises up and sends a prophet among them, to try if their ears were open to receive instruction, now they were holden in the cords of affliction. To a rebellious nation — Hebrew, גוים, nations, the prophet’s commission extending to the dispersed Israelites, as well as the captive Jews, as also to the Jews still in Judea, to whom most of his predictions and reproofs related, and whom his writings would reach, in the order of Divine Providence. They and their fathers have transgressed against me — From age to age they had rebelled against him, and were now as much inclined to do so as ever. They are impudent children, and stiff-hearted — The Hebrew, קשׁי פנים וחזקי לב, may be more significantly rendered, They are children impudent in their countenance, and hardened in their hearts. “They are so far hardened in their wickedness as to have cast off all shame, and even the very outward show of modesty.” And whether they will hear, &c. — Whether they will regard what is said by thee or not, they shall know that there hath been a prophet, &c. — They that obey shall know by the good I will do them; those that will not, by the evil which I will bring upon them. So that the event, answering to thy predictions, shall render thy authority unquestionable, and them inexcusable for not hearkening to the warnings thou hast given them.”
This passage highlights that, even as God is punishing the Hebrews for their transgressions, He is still with them. He makes clear that He still favors them, and offera hope that He will one day restore them to their lands.
Now, it’s funny that you mention that no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden. That was Jesus’ mission. He was not a bearer of His own burden of Sin, as He had none. He was completely sinless. So, in that sense, you’re absolutely right, someone who bears their own Sin can’t bear the Sin of others.
However, I do hasten to point out that Sunan abu Dawud 2522 says, “Narrated AbudDarda’:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: The intercession of a martyr will be accepted for seventy members of his family.”
If the bearer of burdens can’t bear the sins of another, why then can a martyr bear the sins for 70 of his family?
Final note: Yes, I’m aware that Muslim men are permitted to marry non-Muslim women. However, I’m also aware that it doesn’t work in reverse. Muslim women aren’t allowed to marry non-Muslim men. They would likely be killed for doing so. Why might that be?
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“an eternity spent with our Lord and Savior, or oblivion.”
Your “Lord and Savior” has a Lord.
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My Lord and Savior is the Lord. God is one in essence, three in person. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. As such, Jesus is God.
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“my criticism comes from a place of love”
Come on, mr racist!
I challange you to spread that kind of “love” among jews!
Remember, the ” prince of peace” addressed jews like this ( Snakes, The sons of Satan).
Would you even dare, mr as* kisser!?
I know this kind of “love” you have spread in Iraq as well.
Look to your “love” in Aleppo! It’s mesmerizing!
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Oh, I’m a racist, now? Since when did Islam become a race? I’d be curious to know how that works. Also, you’re misapplying the term “racist”.
A racist is someone who believes that their particular race is superior to all others. Examples include the KKK, neo-Nazis, the Black Panthers and (to a lesser extent) Black Lives Matter. All are racists, all are horrible.
Now, I could become angry with you for eqating me with such people, but we don’t actually know each other, now do we? If I don’t know you, then your obviously mistaken opinion of me makes no difference, right? Why would I waste the energy it takes to become angry over such a frivolous thing?
Since it hasn’t occurred to you to ask my position on race, I’ll just go ahead and give it any way. I believe in only one race: the HUMAN race. That’s it, no more, no less.
I believe that the concept of separate races is a social construct, intended to justify the continued oppression of certain groups, through faulty pseudoscience and bastardized Scripture. It’s evil, it’s blasphemous and it needs to go the way of the dinosaur.
Moving on, if you read Scripture, you will see that Jesus was primarily addressing the Pharisees and Sadducees, when He called them serpents and other names. He was calling out their Sin, as well as the Sin of those around them.
That’s what happens when one repents of their Sin. They confess their Sin, place it at Jesus’ feet and allow Him to take it all away. In that way, they become a new being through Christ.
I love it. In addition to being a racist, I’m also an asskisser. I love it. You amuse me tremendously. That’s a contradiction in terms.
You see, true racists are completely unapologetic about their belief. They don’t try to hide it. Therefore, if I were an actual racist, I wouldn’t be kissing anyone’s ass. I’d be openly espousing my racist ideology, likely screaming it from the rooftops, much to the misfortune of the people down below.
As I don’t do that, I don’t hold to that philosophy and I refuse to give a moment of credence to those who do, all you’re doing is showing your ass (to borrow a Southern American term meaning you’re acting like an idiot).
As for my time in Iraq, you’ve asked no questions about it. Allow me to clarify. I served there as a Medic. I was stationed at an internment facility and my job was to provide medical care to Iraqi detainees, under the supervision of a Doctor.
I was part of a team of 5 Medics, who oversaw the care of more than 500 detainees, and we did a damned good job of it. On a daily basis, I showed love, kindness and care to my enemy and I did so UNARMED. Medics weren’t allowed to bring their weapons into the detainee compounds. Would you be willing to do the same? ☺
To address whether or not I’ve evangelized to Jews, the answer is yes, I have. Believe it or not, I actually know Jewish people. Who knew, right? I count many of them as friends, with two who are more like family than my own blood.
We regularly discuss matters of faith and Scripture, and respect each other tremendously. What’s more is, I trust both of them with my own life.
Your turn…
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@The Ezekiel Project,
Are you aware that emperor Heraclius had issued a decree to forcibly baptise all Jews in the Byzantine Empire because the Jews had sided with the Persians in the Byzantine-Persian war.
Who disrupted his plans?
Clue- It was the companions of the Prophet Muhammad when they conquered the region.
So basically the (re)emergence of Islam prevented the destruction of the Jewish community at the hands of Christian Byzantine emperor.
As for the ahadith you misused, these are speaking about the end times in the context of battle which in the Islamic legal context is always only against combatants. If these meant what you are implying then the companions of the Prophet who were more knowledgeable regarding these matters than you or me would have carried them out. But they did not.
Also since you seem to be a Christian what do you have to say about this “He will fill them with corpses, He will shatter the chief men over a broad country.”[Psalms 110:6]. Is this not your understanding of the second coming?
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To answer your question, yes I’m a Christian. Pslam 110 is an end time prophesy, pertaining to the Second Coming of Jesus. It says,
“Psalm 110 Of David. A psalm.
1 The Lord says to my lord:
“Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”
2 The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying, “Rule in the midst of your enemies!”
3 Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy splendor, your young men will come to you like dew from the morning’s womb.
4 The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”
5 The Lord is at your right hand;
he will crush kings on the day of his wrath.
6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth.
7 He will drink from a brook along the way, and so he will lift his head high.”
The funny part in this that I’m well aware that I used Ahadith in relation to the end times, because one of my original assertions related to the end times. You aren’t the first to miss it.
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The challange still stands.
(Criticism jews in out of love)
You know what I mean, don’t you?
I meant the same “love” that Jesus used to spread! Snakes…etc.
I’ve not asked whether you kiss jews’ as* or not ! I know already that you do that perfectly.
Moreover, you have said (Muslims are x &y)
Yes! This is called racism, mr white who love others by guns!
Regarding Iraq,
Are you saying it’s ok to fu** a whole nation with killing, rape , killing children, stealing others resources because a false guessing some lunatics thought about as long as you come later with medicine and “love” ?
Also, your “prince of peace” whom you wait to plunder others instructed you to love those who persecute you. To not resist evil.
Your blog as a whole teaches that Jesus was dumb! This is the implicit statement of faith about Jesus in your blog!
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Let me begin by asking, do you have children? If so, would you speak out if you saw them doing wrong? I mean, I assume you love them, as they are your children. My assertion is that loving someone means you’re willing to let them know when they’re doing wrong. Period.
I’ll state it clearly, I don’t kiss anyone’s ass. If I did, I’d probably make a lot more money than I do now. However, you’re free to believe what you wish. Doesn’t cause me any harm.
Again, Islam isn’t a race. Muslim isn’t a racial group, unless you’re asserting that all Muslims come from the exact same ethnic background. Therefore, criticism of Islam isn’t racism, especially given that I don’t hate anyone, don’t consider myself better than anyone else and treat all people I meet equally.
I should also point out that I’m actually of mixed racial background. My father is Aztec, from Mexico. My mother is American, mixed primarily with White and American Indian.
As such, racism makes absolutely no sense for someone like me. Which side of my ancestry will I declare superior? The European or the North American?
Yes, I carry a gun. Your point is? I fully support all people’s natural, God-given right to defend themselves. Do I go out seeking violence? No, I don’t. Am I prepared in the event it comes looking for me and mine? Yes, I am. Jesus certainly had no problem with the concept of self-defense, “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36)
As for Iraq, I’m not happy with how or why we went. However, I see my deployment there as a good thing. Why? By the time I got there, the damage had already been done. I was doing my part to help repair it.
During my time there, I never once fired a shot, out of anger or otherwise. Thus far, I’ve lived my entire life without even taking another human life, and God knows I hope to keep that going. He also knows I have my doubts that it will.
I find it hilarious that you can sit there and use one of Jesus’ titles in such a derogatory manner, and have the temerity to lecture me on my understanding of my Lord and Savior.
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The Ezekiel Project,
You criticise the Prophet for executing warriors who committed high treason.
What is your opinion of the Prophet Moses who in a single day executed 3000 Israelites.
“The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.”[Exo 32:28]
Are you consisted or do you have double standards?
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Here’s the entire passage surrounding that verse, going five verses in both directions.
“23 They said to me, ‘We don’t know what’s happened to this Moses who brought us out of Egypt. Make gods for us. They will lead us.’ 24 So I told them to take off any gold they were wearing. They gave it to me. I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!” 25 Aaron had let the people get out of control, and they became an object of ridicule to their enemies. When Moses saw this, 26 he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “If you’re on the LORD’s side, come over here to me!” Then all the Levites gathered around him. 27 He said to them, “This is what the LORD God of Israel says: Each of you put on your sword. Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, and kill your relatives, friends, and neighbors.” 28 The Levites did what Moses told them, and that day about 3,000 people died. 29 Moses said, “Today you are ordained as the LORD’s priests. God gave you a blessing today because each of you fought with your own sons and brothers.” 30 The next day Moses said to the people, “You have committed a serious sin. Now I will go up the mountain to the LORD. Maybe I will be able to make a payment for your sin and make peace with the LORD for your sin.” 31 So Moses went back to the LORD and said, “These people have committed such a serious sin! They made gods out of gold for themselves. 32 But will you forgive their sin? If not, please wipe me out of the book you have written.” 33 The LORD answered Moses, “I will wipe out of my book whoever sins against me.” Exodus 32:23-33
In Islamic parlance, what they did was shirk. They worshiped another god, an idol. Under Sharia law, what’s the punishment prescribed for such an act?
Under Mosaic Law, such deeds were punishable by death. The Israelites were commanded to worship none but Yahweh. Is your problem with this because Moses ordered the punishment, according to God’s command?
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Brother Fawaz, don’t bother about history with this guy!
It seems he is from those who wanted (Aghrabah city ) to be nuked! 🙂
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“Is your problem with this because Moses ordered the punishment, according to God’s command?”
How cute 🙂
Mr. hypocrite, you have to tell jews( in out of love) that their prophet was a monster and how savage their god was.
Tell them that.
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Why, pray tell, must I tell them that? Their God is my God, and Moses was justified by God, the Creator of the universe. You keep telling me I must do this, but you’ve provided no justification…
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Ezekiel
“My Lord and Savior is the Lord. God is one in essence, three in person. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. As such, Jesus is God.”
Your “Lord and Savior” has a God, the Father of Israel only. Your “Lord and Savior” is a Unitarian.
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Wanna run that by me again?
John 10:30 – I and [my] Father are one.
Matthew 28:19 – Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
1 Corinthians 8:6 – But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
2 Corinthians 13:14 – The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. ([The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.])
Matthew 3:16-17 – And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (Read More…)
John 14:26 – But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 1:14 – And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 John 5:7-8 – For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (Read More…)
John 14:16-17 – And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (Read More…)
Colossians 2:9 – For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Philippians 2:5-8 – Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (Read More…)
Genesis 1:26 – And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
John 1:1-51 – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Read More…)
1 Peter 1:2 – Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Ephesians 4:4-6 – [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (Read More…)
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 – Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God; (Read More…)
John 10:30-36 – I and [my] Father are one. (Read More…)
Genesis 3:22 – And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Jesus is God in the flesh, sent to earth to dwell among us, fulfill prophesies and become THE sacrifice for Sin.
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Ezekiel
“God is one in essence, three in person”. Jesus is not “one in essence, three in person”, is he?
Jesus is two in essence, one in person.
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‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'” John 20, 17
Jesus has a God, the Father of Israel only. Jesus is a Unitarian.
The HG is not the God of Jesus.
Jesus has another God than you.
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There are three: God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. All three are God, yet all three are separate. This conversation is pointless, as I’m not gonna budge. I know what I know, and you think you know what you know. Jesus made clear that He is God. He called Himself “I Am”, the Alpha and the Omega, He accepted worship from His followers and He even stated that He would be sitting in the Seat of Judgement on Judgement Day. Do you need further proof, or are you going to be stuck on repeat.
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“1 John 5:7-8 – For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (Read More…)”
is a forgery
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Actually, the first part has been proven to be authentic. The last part was later added in, as part of the Latin Volgate. Even so, it doesn’t change the fact that God is Triune in nature. Try again.
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“Their God is my God”
This is a big lie! Jews don’t worship Jesus. Jesus is not God of my father Abraham.
“You keep telling me I must do this, but you’ve provided no justification…”
Didn’t I say that your hypocrisy is unbearable.
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Christians and Jews worship Yahweh. Yahweh sent Yeshua (Jesus) to live among us, teach us and die for us. Christians and Messianic Jews accepted His sacrifice, the other Jewish sects did not. Just because they deny Jesus doesn’t mean we don’t serve the same God.
As for Allah, I ask you to consider the following:
Sahih Muslim 5338: Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The vilest name in Allah’s sight is Malik al-Amidh (King of Kings). The narration transmitted on the authority of Shaiba (contains these words): There is no king but Allah, the Exalted and Glorious. Sufyan said: Similarly, the word Shahinshah (is also the vilest appellation). Ahmad b. Hanbal said: I asked Abu ‘Amr about the meaning of Akhna. He said: The vilest.
Revelation 1:5, “and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood–
Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
Revelation 17:14, “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”
1 Timothy 6:15, “which He will bring about at the proper time–He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,”
My next question is, if Jesus is the King of Kings, as Scripture plainly shows, and the King of Kings will be the most awful to Allah on that day, then who is Allah?
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“There are three: God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. All three are God, yet all three are separate.”
“All three are God” means they share the divine nature. Makes 3 Gods.
and
“God is one in essence, three in person”. Jesus is not “one in essence, three in person”, is he?
Jesus is two in essence, one in person.
and
Jesus has another God than you.
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All three have the same divine attributes, because they are one. God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. If we have to through this again, I’ll have to respectfully ask you to pull over and ask for directions, because we’re driving in circles. 🤔 Frankly, you’re beginning to bore the hell out of me.
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“Messianic jews” = christians !
Stop playing with the words!
Moreover, you don’t serve the same god according to your own bible since who doesn’t have the son, he doesn’t have the father.
But I have toldy you! You’re good in as* kissing!
After all, it’s your job as ignorant missionary
Finally,
Let this jewish guy teach you who Allah is
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“Moreover, you don’t serve the same god according to your own bible since who doesn’t have the son, he doesn’t have the father.”
What do you mean by that? Your emotions might begetting the better of you.
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“All three have the same divine attributes, because they are one.”
Exactly. They are one “What”. One divine nature.
Like Peter Paul and Mary have the same human attributes, because they are one human nature.
Three “Who’s” being one “What” is nothing special. Makes three gods.
“All three are God, yet all three are separate.” Remember?
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Nice try, but now you’re attempting to limit God to human understanding.
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Pfff. I’m attempting to make sense of what evangelical missionary bible thumpers claim about God.
Can’t see how you follow the most important commandment. To love God including with all your mind.
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You as ( christians) do not serve the same god with jews. Jews do not have the son. The one who does not have the son, he does not have the father. This what your own bible tells.
I think you got enough slapping this day.
Prepare the other cheek anytime in this blog.
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Let me see if I’m understanding this correctly. You’re saying that Christians, Jews and Muslims worship different gods, right? Well, at least that Christians don’t worship the same god as Muslims and Jews, right?
Interesting, then, that Allah and Muhammad must not have known that. I mean, Allah sent these verses to Gabriel, who then sent them to Muhammad, who then revealed it to his followers, right? It would seem that Allah claims to have sent Jesus, that he confirms the Gospel, as well as the Torah and even tells the People of the Book to judge Muhammad’s revelation by our own Scripture. I mean, if it’s as you say, we Christians don’t worship the same deity as the other two ABRAHAMIC faiths, then how could these verses have come about?
“It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong),” (Qur’an 3:3).
“And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah,” (Qur’an 5:46).
“When Jesus found unbelief on their part he said, `Who will be my helpers to (the work of) God?’ The disciples said, `We are God’s helpers. We believe in God and (you must) bear witness that we are Muslims (submitted ones). “`Our Lord we believe in what You have revealed and we follow the apostle (Jesus).'” (Qur’an 3:52)
“O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of God: as said Jesus the son of Mary to the disciples, `Who will be my helpers for God?’ The Disciples said, `We are God’s helpers!’ Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: but We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed.” Qur’an 61:14
“God has bought from the believers their selves and their wealth, and for them is the garden (of Paradise) if they fight in the ways of God: and whether they kill or are killed, the promise of God IS true in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an, and who is more faithful to his promise than God?” Qur’an 9:111
“If you (Muhammad) are in doubt regarding that which We have revealed to thee, ASK those who READ the book from before you…” Qur’an 10:94
“And let the People of the Gospel JUDGE by what God has revealed in it. If any fail to judge by what God has revealed, they are licentious.” Qur’an 5:50
I have many more verses, if you like. The Qur’an confirms the Truth of the New Testament, which redpudiates the Qur’an. In Qur’an 5:50, you find the only Qur’anic command I’ll ever follow, as it tells me to follow and judge by what I already do, and by that criteria I judge Muhammad false, the Qur’an false and I state that Allah is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but rather Satan in disguise. Now, which one us has been slapped?
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can you show where in the tanak yhwh predicted that his salvation was going to take the embodiment of a jew and that jew was going to be 100 % yhwh ?
i want to see a verse where yhwh thought he was going to be “sacrificed lamb” for the sins of the people .
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Here is a site that lists 353 separate Old Testament prophesies, from Genesis to Malachi, all fulfilled by Jesus. Have a blessed day.
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html
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“All three have the same divine attributes,”
but funnily the father does not know how it feels to be the son and the son does not know how it feels to be the father THROUGH the same attribute.
this means, 3 separate pagan gods , each having their own separation and knowledge that they are not the other.
3 gods
” because they are one.”
3 separate gods
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How do you figure that the Father, who is all-knowing, doesn’t know that? Likewise, given that Jesus is God in the flesh, how would He not know what it’s like to be the Father? To my knowledge, the only thing the Father knows that’s unknown to Jesus is the date when the End Times will begin.
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@ Ezeikiel,
You said, “I was part of a team of 5 Medics, who oversaw the care of more than 500 detainees”
What a poor staff to patient ratio….sounds like shameful neglect to me,
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“You said, “I was part of a team of 5 Medics, who oversaw the care of more than 500 detainees”
What a poor staff to patient ratio….sounds like shameful neglect to me”
Well, if they were all sick 24/7, then I’d have to agree with you. However, they were generally healthy. Those that needed daily medications were given their meds by Medics not assigned to their compound, so that we were on hand for emergencies. They were well fed, well taken care of, well provided for and some even receieved vocational training, so that they may find jobs when they were inevitably released.
They receieved such good care, they were treated better than our own people. The only thing we had that they didn’t was that we could leave the compound at the end of our shift.
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“How do you figure that the Father, who is all-knowing, doesn’t know that? ”
but then don’t you have redundancy in the trinity? you have a person who then knows what it is to be the other person. does the father know how it is to be sent? does he know how it is not to know the hour? does he know how it is to see and hear like a finite human?
you then have redundancy in the trinity? it is almost as if you are saying that the 3 persons are really 1 person because they know each others experiences.
since the father knows , then the ping pong game of being subject and object of love makes no sense, because as you said “father is all knowing”
so he would know the feeling too. or does he not know the feeling of being object of his sons love but only giving his son love?
“Likewise, given that Jesus is God in the flesh, how would He not know what it’s like to be the Father? ”
then is jesus the twin of the father? his twin brother? then you really have 3 persons who are really 1 person?
“To my knowledge, the only thing the Father knows that’s unknown to Jesus is the date when the End Times will begin.”
then the jesus’ “divine mind” lacks what the fathers mind has in it.
but if jesus has access to the fathers mind, why is knowledge of the hour missing ?
ACCESS to the same mind and this detail missing ?
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//I have many more verses, if you like. The Qur’an confirms the Truth of the New Testament, which redpudiates the Qur’an.//
Funny, I read the Qur’an in original arabic every single day but NEVER found anything that it confirm the truth of “news testament”.
The Qur’an confirms the Injil of prophet Isa not the greek writings by unknown authors.
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@ Ezeikiel,
You said, “They receieved such good care, they were treated better than our own people. The only thing we had that they didn’t was that we could leave the compound at the end of our shift”
How easily you justify the very injustices that you would decry if they occurred in the reverse.
Your cognitive dissonance is shocking.
Just doing your Christian duty, aiding the Holy Crusade in whatever small way you can – you should be proud of yourself. – Disgusting.
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The Ezekiel Project
December 13, 2016 • 9:44 am
Actually, the first part has been proven to be authentic. The last part was later added in, as part of the Latin Volgate. Even so, it doesn’t change the fact that God is Triune in nature. Try again
I say;
How then can we believe the Bible if forgery had been detected? Was it not God breathed? It means it is not God breathed as Christians would like us to believe but it was man breathed as per the forgery detected.
There are so many forgery like the ending of Mark where poisonous snakes verses and drinking of poison were added and no Christian will like to take that test except the Apalachian snake handlers who keep dying.
1.
2.
There is a verse which indicated dead people of ghosts arose from their graves and walked through the streets of Jerusalem and recorded by only one gospel. This could have been a blockbuster at that time that merits mentioning in other gospels and by other historians.
The God of Islam will not put His believers in harms way and made it clear that this world is a place of test. Whatever you are doing and a dangerous thing is approaching you, stop it even when in prayers and run for your dear life. If you are at a safe place you can continue to say your prayers.
The prayers is between you and your God and not between you and a snake, lion or any dangerous thing. Any dangerous thing do not care whether you are praying to God, it gonna bite and kill you like it did to the pastors. So, we do not have this lies in the Quran.
You can only say your daily prayers to God in a safe place not a dangerous place and run when a dangerous animal or any thing dangerous is approaching.
The Quran is memorised and written and continue to be so today, so I am pre-emptively striking your response with regards to the Quran.
Thanks.
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Hang on so to have that point of view you must, therefore, believe in the hadith of the prophet and the Quran as Gods holy command as a prophecy about the end of days!
Excellent glad we agree.
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To whom would you be referring?
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@ Ezekiel,
The link you provided listing 353 separate Old Testament prophesies, from Genesis to Malachi, which are all supposedly fulfilled by Jesus are really just a listing of 353 instances of biased Christian reinterpretational eisegesis, misinterpretation, misunderstanding, redaction, with the intent to force a highly disagreeable OT to agree with an extremely contradictory NT.
The NT does not dovetail with OT, it is like forcing a square into a round circle.
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The Germans committed atrocities which were judged at the Nuremberg trials. Whatever the flaws in justice may have been—at least some form of “rule of law” was used to administer justice. All Germans were not “exterminated” simply because they “hated”, “were violent”..etc…
It may be enticing to react to hate with hate or violence with violence—but the application of justice balanced with compassion and mercy is the better way. It is the way of the “civilized”….to kill is the way of the ignorant/uncivilized.
The Quran advises–
41:34 Yusuf Ali: Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!
and—
5:100 Yusuf Ali: Say: “Not equal are things that are bad and things that are good, even though the abundance of the bad may dazzle thee; so fear Allah, O ye that understand; that (so) ye may prosper.”
Even if the “evil” were a serial killer, rapist, or cannibal—Justice must still be applied in fairness and dignity if we are to retain our humane-ness.
Those who hate are of the same ideology–even if they have different labels.
The Quran advises—
16:125 Yusuf Ali: Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knows best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.
and—
3:104 Yusuf Ali: Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.
We must not remain silent but must strive to invite all to the better way, the way of Justice, the way of God.
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Ezekiel 33 ، are you a christian?
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Yes, I am. I thought I made that clear…
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Ezakiel,
Had I known that you’re just an ignorant christian, I would’ve not wasted my time writing for you.
Your hypocrisy is unbearable.
Read your bloody histroy with jews, man!
Just read to your church fathers!
Then what about the notion of ” Iraqi Freedom” ?
What have you done for Iraq that you think it’s ” freedom” ?
Read what the statistics say about your attitude for Jewish immigrants after WW2.
I think you’re just a product of the clown, May Allah expose him.
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ezekiel, are you talking about parables? don’t you know that your god actualized his parables in the killing and destruction of the jews?
quote:
” Matthew is even more explicit: here Jesus tells a parable in which God is portrayed as burning the city and killing its inhabitants (22:8). Luke has similar passages (e.g., 21:24).”
richard October 29, 2014
” Matthew is even more explicit: here Jesus tells a parable in which God is portrayed as burning the city and killing its inhabitants (22:8). Luke has similar passages (e.g., 21:24).”
Dr ehrman, do you think that the author of Matthew thought that god actualized the parable?
Bart October 30, 2014
Yes, writing after the fact that’s how he imagines it.
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The Ezekiel Project
December 12, 2016 • 4:45 am
Not that I’m condoning extermination here, but you do realize that the Muslim world both denies the Holocaust and actually supported Hitler? They hate Jews, many of them grow up being taught that Jews are evil, that Israel is illegitimate and that the end times won’t kick off until they begin exterminating the Jews.
Now, this isn’t some “Islamophobic” conspiracy theory, this is hisbtoric fact, backed by Islamic literature. I don’t deal with Muslims, I deal with what their doctrine says, and their doctrine is defined by their literature.
I say;
You lied very badly and some people just shortened it and say “You lie bad”
Proof.
Jews have lived with Muslims for centuries and continue to live with Muslims in majority Muslims lands today. Moroccan Jews, Yemenite Jews, Palestinian Jews, Iranian Jews, Lebanese Jews, Iraqi Jew, Turkish Jews etc. and all the Muslims majority lands still have Jews living freely except those local Jews who succumbed to Israeli promise of better living and bribe moved to Israel.
The proof refuted your untruth about Muslim-Jewish relations. Why are the Jews in Muslim majority lands all along until freedom of religion was forced on the Christians by the liberals?
The Christian USA refused a ship load of Jewish migrants entry to the US and the ship was returned back to Europe for Christian persecution there and some of the Jews ended up in Holocaust.
These Jews were fleeing Christian persecution from Europe and the Christian USA disallow the ship entry into the USA. What a wicked hatred to Jews by the Christian USA.
All these times Jews and Christians are enjoying in all Muslim majority lands and the Muslim sultan chattered a ship to go to Europe to bring the Jewish brothers to Muslim lands.
This is a fact and it is history and any Jew knows about this.
When the Muslims were in control of Spain any Jew will tell you that the Jews were free with the Muslims and they even became richer than Muslims. When the Christians conquered Spain back from the Muslims what did they do?
-Force converting to Christianity
-persecuting Non Christians
-eventually kicking all non Christians from Spain.
When the remaining Muslims were leaving Spain/Portugal(Al Andalus) their Jewish brothers and cousins followed them to live in Morocco, Iraq, Algeria etc and all Muslim lands and some of them are there today to prove you wrong.
Yes, Muslims are against any injustice including the one by the Israeli government. Any sensible Jew and sensible Christian knows it is not against Jews but against injustice.
There are a lot of Jews who are very against Israeli policies than most Muslims. Will you call them anti Jews? There are Christians who are very against Israeli policies and they are not anti Jews but anti Israel policies.
It is a full and stupid and an idiot person who thinks talking against Israel and some extremist Zionist policy is anti Jews. It is not but it is anti injustice.
Mozer G. is here and we swear to love him but we made clear we are anti injustice including isis injustice to Christians or Muslims. Muslims are now fighting isis and I am surprised to see Christians in isis controlled areas with their Churches not destroyed when the area was recently freed.
Compare it to what happened in Spain(Al Andalus) when it was conquered by the Christians.
My brothers have corrected you with some hadith you quoted and I will not touch it because it was well addressed. I will only add what Jesus said
◄ Luke 19:27 ►
New International Version
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.'”
Thanks.
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correction
fool not full.
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thanks for the love 😉 I love you too…
all what you’ve stated it obvious and simple history… those who want to twist the facts, is to whitewash their own past ….
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Intellect,
I like you. You’re direct, well spoken and obviously pay attention. Let’s have at it, then.
As I said, I don’t deal with Muslims. What I mean by that is, I try not to use them as sources. Why? Because they’re human, they’re fallible and oftentimes they’re bound by the practice of Taqiyya.
Even if they aren’t, they simply might not know about what their own sources say. For that reason, I stick to two main sources: the literature (Qur’an, Ahadith, etc.) and Muhammad himself. In other words, the Doctrine as defined by the literature, and the person the Qur’an defines as the Muslim ideal, not the people themselves.
Now, the doctrine doesn’t care about what the people want or do. They can follow it, or not. However, as Islam is a supremacist doctrine, it nullifies all those examples you’ve provided, because in all those examples, Islam was on top of the political ladder.
It leads one to question, in all of those examples, how many of those Jews survived only because they were paying the Jizyah? The same goes for their Christian neighbors.
What happens, under Sharia law, if one of the People of the Book refused to pay the Jizyah? For that matter, how many rights were afforded to the Kafir in those areas? What about people who weren’t Christians or Jews? What options did they have?
If you want to address the examples of Christians behaving badly, throughout history, then we shall. I don’t shy away from that topic. Those actions were carried out in direct contravention of Scripture. Nowhere did Jesus teach that we were to abuse, mistreat or wipe out Jews, or anyone else for that matter.
In fact, I believe that what they did wasn’t just inhumane, it was blasphemous. They caused harm and shed innocent blood, in the name of God. I believe there’s a special place in Hell, for those people.
Now, let’s examine the Qur’an from the same perspective. Sura 9 was the last major Sura revealed by Muhammad, isn’t it? If I’m mistaken, that means it abrogates any earlier materials that might contradict it, right?
So, what do you do when an entire chapter of the Qur’an commands believers to wipe out or violently subjugate all unbelievers, as related to earlier, less violent verses?
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Oops…if I’m NOT mistaken. It seems a typo escaped my proofreading.
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“they’re bound by the practice of Taqiyya”
This is a lie! A big lie spread by the clown and his ignrant followers.
Taqiyya is found in this verse
“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves”
Basically, it’s what evangelicals do with jews.
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Qur’an 16:106, “Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief… except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;”
Qur’an 3:28, “Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.”
Qur’an 66:2, “Allah has already ordained for you [Muslims] the dissolution of your oaths. And Allah is your protector, and He is the Knowing, the Wise.”
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I should also point out that the verse you shared said we’re to be as innocent as doves. That entire verse means we’re to know how our enemies work, while avoiding wrongdoing ourselves. That isn’t Taqiyya, we aren’t allowed to lie about our faith. You are, though. You’re even allowed to pretend friendship.
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Thank you for proving that the meaning if taqyyiah is not what you presented before rather it means if a muslm were under a threat of death, he can say the blasphmy such as Jesus my god as long as his heart is for Allah. That’s it.
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Look to your prophet paul’s understanding of how to practice taqyyiah
“To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.”
It means you can lie that you love jews who hate Jesus to win the jews.
It’s the same manner when you preach that you love your enemies by shooting them with your guns!
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Qur’an 16:106, 3:28, 66:2 has been responded too,
https://discover-the-truth.com/2015/01/24/response-to-taqiyya-deception-lying/
The real “taqiyya” is from your Lord Saviour Paul who endorses and sanctions “Christians” like you to lie and deceive non-Christians:
“Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. TO THE JEWS I BECAME LIKE A JEW, TO WIN THE JEWS. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. TO THOSE NOT HAVING THE LAW I BECAME LIKE ONE NOT HAVING THE LAW (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), SO AS TO WIN THOSE NOT HAVING THE LAW. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.” – 1 Corinthians 9:19-23
Check classical Church fathers who advocated lying using this verse:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/11/28/1-corinthians-9-apostle-pauls-missionary-deception-taqiyya/
Here is another link where from scripture:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2015/01/22/holy-bible-allows-lying-deception/
Your deceptive interpretation on Luke 19:27 won’t work here. The majority of Christian scholars (exegesis) say that Jesus will come back to slaughter non-Christians just for not accepting him as the Messiah.
Take your Paulisnm taqiyya elsewhere…
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Ezekiel,
You asked, What happened if Jizya was not paid, 1400 years ago? A good example would be today, what would happen to you if you didn’t pay tax to the country you reside in? You will get a 5 Star treatment straight to prison. Try not paying your tax, I guarantee you the Police will knock on your house door and give you ride to court and then jail.
That tax was used for the betterment of the society, link on 9:29 further down explains this better.
Historical analysis on Jizya:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/06/10/the-truth-about-jizyah/
A lot of rights were afforded to non-Muslims. Allah says in the Quran to treat non-Muslims with kindness and goodness:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/02/12/the-relationship-of-the-muslim-with-non-muslims/
In fact, Jews and Christians were living so good that they praised the Arabs for taking over 1300 years ago. They hated the Christian Byzantine rulers because they excessively taxed and abused non-Christians. And sometimes they were forcefully converted to Christianity, from Judaism:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/06/22/social-conditions-christians-and-jews-in-early-period-of-islam/
Where did Prophet Muhammed say that Surah 9 abrogated all other suras? Stop peddling lies.
S. 9:5
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/04/22/an-historical-examination-of-the-sword-verse-surah-95/
And S. 9:29,
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/03/28/answering-jihad-fight-against-those-who-do-not-believe-quran-929/
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It is unfortunate that in the process of supporting various recent foreign “adventures” including the continuing unjust and immoral occupation of Palestine, which has been described as a “slow motion Holocaust” it often seems that many Jews, Christians and others have forgotten the universal nature of the phrase, “Never Again.” It is almost as if some people today seem to think that the subtext of the above phrase is, “Never again (for the Jews alone)” as if to say that only the Jews will “never again” suffer the crime of genocide. Because of this, the phrase may ring empty and hollow to some who see the hypocrisy in those who say such while supporting various wars, and the implementation of state policies which institutionalize brutality, violence, discrimination, and injustice against others. In regard to Islam, it makes one wonder if Muslim lives really matter or if they were ever truly intended to be included in the phrase “Never Again.”
Therefore, I think it is important to be reminded that the words “Never Again” should not be taken lightly nor should they be understood as being exclusive of any single race or religion. But rather the words should be understood as a promise and a guarantee from all decent human beings, who believe in God, Justice, and Mercy…. A promise which applies equally to all peoples, everywhere, anytime, anyplace.
I want to applaud Moser for having the honest and kind heart to reemphasize and reassure us that that there are still people like him who believe that these words DO APPLY TO MUSLIM’s (as well as Jews and everyone else) and speaking in our defense in the above post entitled “NEVER AGAIN!” and I agree with him that those words should be shouted loudly in refrain by all decent human beings, anytime ANY and EVERY race, ethnicity, religion, etc. is facing a threat (even jokingly) of Genocide because utter annihilation is not a joke.
If we all did so together, maybe the world would be a more peaceful place.
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find me even one verse in the tanakh where God said his salvation would take on the embodiment of jew who is 100 % god. No where in tanakh does God say that He is a SACRIFICED person who symbolises levitical sacrifices in the temple. what utter disgusting blasphemy AGAINST ALMIGHTY God no where even HINTS that he is KILLED BY pagans to bring SALVATION.
repent now of this blasphemy. repent .
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yes and what about the issue where in the NT that Jesus is supposed to come back and reinstate blood sacrifice… So I guess his sacrifice wasn’t all that…
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tye pagan cult of christianity is dissolving at an ever growing pace with more former christians realising that they have been indoctrinated and fooled all along and are trying to mould their current erroneous dogma into something more towards monotheism (in the guise of unitarianism). The more genuine of them became Muslim but the proud ones adopt a hybrid approach in order not to be embarrassed.
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Thirst,
I agree with you. Christianity is already dead or dying in Europe, it will soon happen as well in the west, and the only hold outs will be places where people are uneducated, or unable to access the critical literature which demolishes traditional Christian doctrine and belief. In the mean time, Islam is growing, despites mountains of critique and attack that has been written by Christians like Exekiel project. .
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Good evening/morning, folks. Here’s my situation. Last night, I was confronted by several of you, and had to make an accounting of myself and my faith. Under the circumstances, I’d say I did rather well. I mean, it was all of you, versus just one of me.
The unfortunate thing is, I had so many conversations going at once, it became difficult for me to keep track of them. That I chose to post general comments, as opposed to addressing anyone directly, is likely the reason why I was able to avoid calling anyone by the wrong name, or answering the wrong question.
At this time, I’m going to begin addressing each of you in individual comments, in order to bring some kind of organization to this gigantic mess of a comment section. It’s a little nuts, the way the whole thing went, and I don’t feel right about it.
I spent a good deal of time this evening reading Scripture, praying and figuring out how best to organize this thing. I also spent a bit of time reflecting about the conversations themselves. On that account, I owe some of you an apology. Looking back, I can see that some of my responses weren’t exactly civil, let alone Christ-like. As such, allow me to apologize for my past behavior, and let’s see if we can move on from this point.
I’ll begin with the host of the page. Mozer, I’m sorry for taking over your comment section. That wasn’t my intention. While I’m sure many Muslims don’t really have a personal problem with Jews, their doctrine is entirely different. So, my response to you will proceed from your first response to my initial comment. It makes sense to do it that way.
While the Palestinians might be making it seem like a territorial fight, the reality is that it comes back to Islam. I strongly recommend you read “The Blood of Lambs”, by Kamal Saleem. He goes a long way towards shedding light on the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, from the Muslim perspective.
If I’m not mistaken, Mel Gibson does claim to be a Christian. However, I’ll be honest, I don’t know the man, so I can’t attest to his faith, or lack thereof. Either way, just because he might be a Christian doesn’t mean he’s representative of all Christians. In fact, no one, not even the Pope, can claim to be a representative of Christianity. That honor falls to Jesus Himself.
The same goes for Hitler. Even if he did somehow claim to be Christian, there wasn’t a single thing to justify what he did. Yes, some are arguing the violent portions of the Old Testament are examples of his justification for genocide, but I think you and I can agree that those violent portions were: a) situationally prescribed by God, to deal with people who had repeatedly rejected His messages and b) weren’t left open-ended, in an invitation to wipe out all who rejected God. In fact, I can’t recall a single verse anywhere in the Old Testament, where God ordered the Israelites to wipe out all who disbelieve.
I should also note that the supposed genocide of Canaanites must have been hugely unsuccessful, given that Jesus was approached by a Canaanite woman (Matthew 14:21-24, Mark 7:24-30). I mean, unless someone wants to make the claim that Canaanites are somehow able to resurrect themselves, it’s clear that the command to wipe them all out wasn’t meant to be taken literally.
In either case, I believe that our Scripture is clear on how unbelievers are meant to be treated, and that’s with tolerance and respect. (Note that, in Jesus’ time, there were Gentiles living peacefully among the Jews) The Qur’an can’t make the same claim. In Qur’an 9:29, for example, the command is, “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.”
Let’s examine this. Nothing in the verbiage defines a set time period, nor are there any qualifiers stating any criteria beyond a) those who don’t believe in Allah, b) those who don’t believe in the Last Day (Judgment Day), c) those who don’t forbid what Allah has forbidden, d) those who refuse to convert to Islam, from among the Christians and Jews. It does show us a little mercy, though. We can suffer the humiliation of paying the Jizyah, in order to keep them from killing us.
As I’ve stated, I’m addressing their doctrine, not the people themselves. As I mentioned in my initial comment, “I’d be an idiot if I asserted that all Muslims are violent, infidel-hating, terrorists. However, that’s why I speak to their doctrine. Because it teaches that they’re supposed to be violent, infidel-hating terrorists.” I’ll be the first to admit, that wasn’t exactly diplomatic of me, but I can’t take it back now.
Yes, Pew Research Polls state that there are approximately 1.6 billion Muslims on this planet. Yes, a sizable portion of that population aren’t presently attempting to saw the heads off infidels, but that’s a bit beside the point. I can attest to the fact that 19 Muslim men changed the way my country does things one sunny morning in 2001. Just the act of boarding a plane in this country has become an unmitigated pain in the ass, made all the worse by the fact that the TSA hasn’t yet caught a single terrorist. Imagine what 100 could do if we were to be caught unawares, again.
To address the treatment of Jews in Christian territory, it was patently inexcusable. Words can’t express how simply wrong and contrary to the teachings of Jesus it was. I believe that there is a special place in Hell for those who commit evil acts, in God’s name. That being said, I can’t be held responsible for something that ceased long before I was even born.
Side note: David Duke and his ilk may claim to be Christian, but the “scripture” they’re using has been bastardized in a way that can only be described as blasphemous.
On the reading of Luther’s work, while next to a Lutheran Pastor, that’s hilariously awkward. I’ve read Luther’s “95 Theses”, but I haven’t yet picked up “On the Jews and Their Lies”. I might read it on principle, though I suspect it’ll only make me angry. It does bring up a point I want to highlight.
The Jewish treatment of Jesus was prophesied, especially by Isaiah. Isaiah 53 says, “Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
As such, I bear no ill will to the Jews who treated Him in that manner. Granted, Jesus not only made plain that He was the Messiah, but He also made plain that He is the only way into the Kingdom of Heaven. In that regard, I question the ultimate fate of all Jews, on Judgment Day, but that’s because I question the fate of most humans during the same.
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The Ezekiel,
You said,
“While the Palestinians might be making it seem like a territorial fight, the reality is that it comes back to Islam.”
– You’re answer to every question seems to be “Blame it on Islam.” How is it that Palestinians are making it SEEM like a territorial fight, when in reality it is an OCCUPATION which by nature is territorial. Though it could be argued that at this late stage it is now more about social and civil justice. How do you explain Christian opposition to the Israeli Occupation? What about Druze? What about secularist opposition?
Mel Gibson, Hitler – You are right that they are not representative of all Christians, but our point to you is that their actions were born out of their interpretation of Scripture, NT, and Christian writings (Luther etc.) all of which contain highly anti-semitic content. Try to get the point.
You said,
“I can’t recall a single verse anywhere in the Old Testament, where God ordered the Israelites to wipe out all who disbelieve”.
-Amalkites ring a bell? In regard to Caananites, if any were left or survived, it just illustrates the inaccuracy of facts as related by the Bible. Another possibility is that an entire clan or subgroup of Canaanites was exterminated, but that is only a theory.
Qur’an 9:29 – I highly suggest you try reading something about Islam outside of your highly biased sources https://discover-the-truth.com/2014/06/03/examining-quran-929-does-islam-sanction-the-killing-of-christians-and-jews/
When there is no other argument left play the 911 and Terrorism card – Have you no shame sir?!
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With the Name of Allah
//I believe that our Scripture is clear on how unbelievers are meant to be treated, and that’s with tolerance and respect.//
I dont think your scripture are clear about this. Jesus order genocides against the unbelievers.
// The Qur’an can’t make the same claim. In Qur’an 9:29, for example, the command is, “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.//
This verse has the historical context. The Muslims need to fight, against anyone who broke their oaths or violated the sanctity of holy places, despite earlier hopes for peace according to the terms of the Treaty of Hudaybîyah. This view is based from classical tarsir, as well as hadiths and sirah.
Read the whole chapter, the reasons for going to war expressed within the Qur’an closely match those within jus ad bellum, the Just War criteria which establishes the justice of a decision to undertake combat. The criteria include Just Cause, Proportionality and Last Resort. Not like you find in your scriptures that is indiscriminate attacks against non combatant including innocent infants even so absurd it also against cattles and plants.
The Qur’an described this as a prohibition against “transgressing limits”. Surah 2:190, states:
Thus, the purpose of armed combat was self-defence and, even though the need for survival meant that warfare would be tough, combat was to adhere to a set of prescribed constraints.
Regarding the Jizya , it is a just and right tax , these are a sign of Islamic tolerance , it is a fee for protection provided by the Muslim state for the non muslim who were being an exemption from military service. The muslims must on the other hand pay the zakah the 2.5% income tax.
Historian Thomas Arnold gives the example of the tribe of al-Jurajima, a Christian tribe in the neighborhood of Antioch who “made peace with the Muslims, promising to be their allies and fight on their side in battle, on condition that they should not be called upon to pay jizyah and should receive THEIR PROPER SHARE OF THE BOOTY.
“As stated above, the jizyah was levied on the able-bodied males, in lieu of the military service they would have been called upon to perform had they been Musalmans ; and it is very noticeable that when any Christian people served in the Muslim army, they were exempted from the payment of this tax”
Source:
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/The_Preaching_of_Islam_1000005744/71
So Jizyah works exactly the same way modern state function, there is nothing humiliating about it.
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Abdulla, you get to be next, my friend. As I did with Mozer, I’ll begin with your first response. You can argue the legitimacy of the State of Israel all you want, but it was prophesied in Old Testament Scripture. Not only that, but it seems to me that Israel has earned the right to exist many times over, through the right of conquest.
I mean, they’ve fought off the Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Palestinians, etc. Whose asses do they have to kick in order to gain a bit of peace? No worries, I’m being facetious on that last bit. Everything that is happening is according to Biblical prophesy, so it is what it is.
Your point about Jews who hold the view that Israel is illegitimate is actually pointless. I mean, so there are some self-hating Jews out there. Does that somehow nullify all arguments to the contrary? Does the fact that ISIS exists nullify your opinion regarding Islamic Doctrine? I doubt it.
I’ll also adress who it is that Christians and Jews worship. We worship the same Jehovah God. In case you missed it, the Christian Old Testament is made up of the Jewish Tankah, along with many other books, including the works of the Prophets, Psalms and Proverbs. The events in the New Testament took place in Judea, and Jesus was a Jew. While the Jews rejected Jesus, that doesn’t change the fact that Christians and Jews worship the same God. The only difference is, we know the Messiah has already made one visit, we are waiting on His next visit, and the Jews are still awaiting the first.
Moving on, I’m amused that you regard Messianic Jews as Christians. Two of my closest friends are Messianic Jews. Here’s the difference between them, and Christians. They celebrate the same festivals as the Jews. They read from the Torah, and the New Testament. They keep Kosher, observe all the same holidays and are in every other way Jewish. Christians don’t do any of that, beyond reading from both the Old Testament and the New. If you wish to lump us all together, it doesn’t hurt my feelings, or theirs.
Now, I’ll address something else you’ve mentioned. In 1 John 2:23, John states, “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” This doesn’t mean that the Jews and Christians don’t worship the same God. It means that those who deny Jesus as Lord and Savior won’t gain entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven.
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Flying Pir, you must have missed the part where I made mention of my ancestry. (primarily Aztec, Cherokee and European) It was pertinent, because I was being accused of racism. Anyways, on with the fun.
Your suggestion that what happened to my ancestors (see how that worked out?) was somehow in line with Scripture is on a par with the suggestion that Hitler’s actions were justifiable by Scripture. What happened to my ancestors was as unconscionable as it was inevitable. It’s known as a clash of cultures, and has happened all over the world, not just in North America.
I should also note that the supposed American genocide was largely unsuccessful. Not only are Natives still around (ahem, I’m living proof), but most of our languages and cultures are still intact. In fact, I happen to speak some Cherokee. Reports of our deaths have been greatly exaggerated. (the last bit was sarcasm)
Now, are there still conflicts that arise from time to time, between the Native peoples, and the US government? Absolutely. The government is staffed by idiots, most of whom couldn’t find their own asses with both hands and a map. Of course there are going to be issues.
On that topic, there are factors that no one pays attention to, when declaring it a “genocide”. First, conflicts with the Natives of North America (Canada, Continental US, Alaska and Mexico) predate the advent of the United States, Canada and Mexico. Those conflicts arose from interaction with colonial powers, though archaeological evidence shows that the Vikings were the first Europeans in North America, and that didn’t go well for them. Bye, bye, Columbus.
Contrary to popular belief, the bulk of those 100+ million people who died, over the course of 500 years (average of 200,000 per year), were due to disease. The Europeans had no way of knowing they were carrying diseases for which the Natives had no immunity. The biggest killer was smallpox, but there were a whole host of diseases that wiped out entire tribes, before European settlers even made it to their area. That doesn’t seem to fit the description of a genocide.
Did the European governments commit actions that today would be called “war crimes”? Absolutely. Did the US, Canada and Mexico continue their practices? Yes, they did. However, and I can’t stress this enough, my Native ancestors weren’t exactly innocent, either.
The Aztecs practiced ritual human sacrifice. For example, the game we Americans call “soccer” (you call it football) is an off-shoot of an old Aztec ritual game. The rules of the game were simple. Don’t touch the ball with your hands, and the losing team gets decapitated as a sacrifice to the gods.
They had a special class of warriors, known as Jaguar Warriors, who gained battle honors based on how many enemy warriors they captured alive. Why? Those captives were to be sacrificed to the gods on their altars. Mel Gibson’s “Apocalypto” is a brilliant representation of this, though the people in the movie are actually speaking Mayan, not Aztec. If I’m not mistaken, the Mayans were carrying out the same practice, so I’ll forgive him that oversight.
The Cherokee had a very simple way of living life. The men had three primary occupations: hunting, fishing and fighting. All three they did well, and often. They would spend the winter mending weapons and tools, making babies and training. Once Spring came, they would help plant crops, help tend crops through the growing season, and spend their free time killing animals and other humans. Not exactly the image history gives us, now is it?
Don’t make the mistake of thinking I’m minimizing what happened to my ancestors. Not in the slightest. However, it’s in the past. Those who committed those awful crimes are long dead, and have presumably faced judgment for it. I decided years ago to leave the bitterness and anger in the past.
To address what you said about the end times Ahadith I quoted, I would like to point something out. It would seem to me that the Jews are under constant attack from Muslims, in the form of the Palestinians vs. Israel. Given those circumstances, I fail to see how it would be the Jews starting the war, if they’re constantly defending themselves from people who haven’t a single problem with firing rockets and mortars from school yards, hospitals and residential areas. You can’t have it both ways.
Regarding your question on the Doctrine of Abrogation, I submit the following:
Sura 9 was the last Sura Muhammad produced, right? Much of that Sura contradicts earlier verses and other materials which were of a more peaceful nature. As that causes a conflict, which ones win out? If you turn to Qur’an 2:106, “None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?” and Qur’an 16:101, “When We substitute one revelation for another, – and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),– they say, “Thou art but a forger”: but most of them understand not.”, it becomes clear.
Any time there is a conflict between contradictory verses, those two dictate that the newer one wins out. Consider the following verses from Sura 9:
9:5, “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
9:14, “Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people”
9:20, “The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives are greater in rank in the sight of Allah . And it is those who are the attainers [of success].”
9:29, “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.”
9:33, “It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although they who associate others with Allah dislike it.”
9:38-39, “O you who have believed, what is [the matter] with you that, when you are told to go forth in the cause of Allah , you adhere heavily to the earth? Are you satisfied with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But what is the enjoyment of worldly life compared to the Hereafter except a [very] little. If you do not go forth, He will punish you with a painful punishment and will replace you with another people, and you will not harm Him at all. And Allah is over all things competent.”
9:41-42, “Go forth, whether light or heavy, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the cause of Allah . That is better for you, if you only knew. Had it been an easy gain and a moderate trip, the hypocrites would have followed you, but distant to them was the journey. And they will swear by Allah , “If we were able, we would have gone forth with you,” destroying themselves [through false oaths], and Allah knows that indeed they are liars.”
9:73, “O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.”
9:88, “But the Messenger and those who believed with him fought with their wealth and their lives. Those will have [all that is] good, and it is those who are the successful.
9:111, “Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.
9:123, “It is not for the Prophet and those who have believed to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even if they were relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of Hellfire.
Carrying on, much of that material is pretty clear. Kill or subjugate the unbelivers, don’t seek out peace with them, don’t make friends with them, etc. Of course, there’s more than just Sura 9.
4:74, “So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory – We will bestow upon him a great reward.”
4:89, “They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.”
4:95, “Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] – other than the disabled – and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward -”
4:104, “And do not weaken in pursuit of the enemy. If you should be suffering – so are they suffering as you are suffering, but you expect from Allah that which they expect not. And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.”
8:12-13, “[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip. That is because they opposed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger – indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.”
8:39, “And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease – then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.”
8:59-60, “And let not those who disbelieve think they will escape. Indeed, they will not cause failure [to Allah ]. And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.”
8:65, “O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
I think that’s enough for today.
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@ the Ezekiel,
Thanks for your whitewashed Christian history lesson.
Funny how you quote all of those Qur’anic versis out of context, and then gloss over the fact that your Bible is far more violent than the Quran. In fact, the Bible–unlike the Quran–glorifies genocide.
15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and utterly destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
15:8 He took Agag, king of the Amalekites, alive, and all his people he utterly destroyed with the sword.
I could quote violent passages from the Bible all day long, but frankly it is quite boring. Here are some links you can read and hopefully regain a more well balanced view not to mention a little humility.
What the Quran-bashers Don’t Want You to Know About the Bible
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/03/what-the-quran-bashers-dont-want-you-to-know-about-the-bible/
Warrior Prophet: Moses or Muhammad?
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/03/warrior-prophet-moses-or-muhammad/
Who was the Most Violent Prophet in History?
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/03/who-was-the-most-violent-prophet-in-history/
The Suicide Bomber Prophet
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/03/the-suicide-bomber-prophet/
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Ibn Issam, I’ll begin by clarifying a few things. First, a Christian follows the teachings of Christ, hence the name “Christian”. As Christ’s ministry didn’t feature any commands to commit genocide, it’s safe to say that Hitler tripped over himself there. He might have been baptized a Catholic, but that doesn’t mean his faith, if it ever existed at all, carried over into adulthood. Muslims aren’t the only ones who face apostasy from time to time. At the very least, he was an apostate. I fail to see how that’s making excuses for him, especially given that I hope Satan had an entire theme park of horrors awaiting Hitler’s arrival.
I do find it funny that you equate disagreement with hatred. Why it’s funny is that I thought we were adults. You claim that I hate anyone who doesn’t subscribe to my particular brand of Christianity. Yet, I’ve made mention of my Jewish friends. Of course, I’ve also neglected to mention the members of my family who are atheists, pagan, etc.
In my daily life, I encounter people from a variety of faiths, and all walks of life. I treat them all the same, because I don’t carry an ounce of hatred in my heart. In fact, I’ve even forgiven the man who murdered my youngest sister. Can someone who’s filled with hatred do something like that?
You may pass any judgment on me you like. It doesn’t concern me. I did my best to ensure my patients got the best treatment I could give them, so did my fellow Medics. We did it knowing that our patients would have tried to kill us if given half a chance. It is interesting to see things from the other side of the conflict though, and I thank you for that.
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The Ezekiel,
If you followed the teachings of Christ, you would reject the Trinity, Atonement by the Cross, Doctrine of Original sin, because Jesus never taught these things. As you say that Christs ministry did not feature any commands to commit genocide, you must have missed this the following verse, which I am sure Hitler didn’t miss: Luke 19:27 Jesus Christ said to His disciples: “But those, mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me KJV. It does not seem that Hitler was not an apostate, he was just following the order of your Prophet, as recorded in your book.
I never equated disagreement with hate, you did. I don’t pass judgement on anyone. Judgment belongs only to Allah (swt) alone. What I refer to is your transparent claim that you don’t speak directly of Muslim people but instead about their doctrine because as you say, “it teaches that they’re supposed to be violent, infidel-hating terrorists.” You know full well that this is a poor excuse for your thinly disguised furtive hatred of ALL Muslims who believe in Islam. You are surely aware that such rhetoric can possibly mislead some of your non-Muslim readers to increase in hatred and to commit acts of violence against peaceful Muslims, which makes your comment even more disgusting. I too, in my daily life, have good and close friends from all walks of life, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Shinto, atheist, agnostic, and many others as well. Islamic teachings when taken in full context as a whole inform and encourage me to have good and peaceful relations with all these people. However that does not stop you from obliquely accusing me, along with all other Muslims in a single brush stroke by extension of our believing in a religion whose doctrine you wrongly and misguidedly believe teaches otherwise. The sources of our faith, and we ourselves are far from what you claim.
You do this as if you are doing us a favor, all while preaching about “Christian Love” which if nothing else makes you at the very least a hypocrite, and at the very worst a surreptitious hate-mongering Islamophobe. If your rhetoric is Christian Love, then no thanks, I can live without it. Such interfaith work as yours will do more damage and harm for your cause in the long run.
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@ Ezekiel,
You claim that, “…a Christian follows the teachings of Christ, hence the name “Christian”.
The Term “Christian” was first used by the people of Antioch who used the term derogatorily in reference to the followers of Jesus, whose uninvited preaching they did not appreciate (Acts 11:26) hence the name.
Where in the Bible did God directly say that he named his religion Christianity?
Where in the Bible did God directly name the followers of Christ as Christians?
Christ never called himself a Christian, Christ never called his followers Christians. The apostles never called each other Christians. Christ never used an adjective to describe himself. Therefore, it is clear that you are not following the teachings of Christ, in calling yourself “Christian.”
If you are a Trinitarian, who believes in atonement by the Cross, then you do not follow the teachings of Christ, as Jesus never preached those beliefs. Instead, you follow the false teachings and innovations of Paul. Therefore you are more aptly referred to as a “Paulininan” who follows “Paulianity.”
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@ Ezekiel,
“If by Christianity we understand faith in Christ as the heavenly Son of God, who did not belong to earthly humanity, but who lived in the divine likeness and glory, who came down from heaven to earth, who entered humanity and took upon himself a human form through a virgin, that he might make propitiation for men’s sins by his own blood upon the cross, who was then awakened from death and raised to the right hand of God, as the Lord of his own people, who believe in him, who hears their prayers, guards and leads them, who will come again with the clouds of heaven to judge the world, who will cast down all the foes of God, and will bring his own people with him unto the home of heavenly light so that they may become like His glorified body – if this is Christianity, then such Christianity was founded by St. Paul and not by our Lord”
Dr. Arnold Meyer, Professor of Theology, Zurich University, Jesus or Paul, p. 122
Hence, “Paulianity” not “Christianity”
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Jazak Allah khyran, br Eric.
I think you should put this comment as a separate post on this blog.
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Eric bin Kisam, you mentioned 1 Samuel 15:1-9. This verse refers to Saul being ordered by God, through the prophet Samuel, to wipe out the Amalekites. As I recall, under Mosaic law, an eye-for-an-eye was still a thing. As such, given that the Amalekites had attacked them first, it makes sense they’d wage war against them. This comes down to the fact that God ordered it. He speaks, it happens. That simple. If Allah were to order you to kill thousands, would you do it?
What’s interesting about this is what Jesus said in Matthew 5:38-42, “38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.” In other words, in that one moment, He did away with the principle set forth in Exodus 21:21-25.
Psalm 137:8-9. Here’s Benson’s commentary: “O daughter of Babylon — By which he understands the city and empire of Babylon, and the people thereof, who art to be destroyed — Who by God’s righteous and irrevocable sentence, art devoted to certain destruction, and whose destruction is particularly and circumstantially foretold by God’s holy prophets. For the subject of these two verses is the same with that of many chapters in Isaiah and Jeremiah; namely, the vengeance of Heaven executed upon Babylon by Cyrus, raised up to be king of the Medes and Persians for that purpose. Happy shall he be — He shall be blessed and praised in his deed, as having done a glorious work in executing the divine justice upon Babylon, and at the same time, as an instrument in God’s hand, rescuing and delivering the people of God. Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones, &c. — That retaliates upon thee the calamities thou didst bring upon us. It has been objected, that the imprecations, in these verses, against Babylon, do not well comport with God’s directions to his captive people, Jeremiah 29:7, to pray for the peace of Babylon. But here we must distinguish between the ordinary rule of practice and the extraordinary commission given to prophets. The psalmist was a prophet, and wrote by the special direction of the Holy Spirit; while the common people of Israel, and prophets also, in their private capacity, were to follow the ordinary rule of praying for those very enemies whose destruction was coming on, but in God’s own time. In the meanwhile the safety of the Jewish captives depended on the safety of Babylon, and was wrapped up in it; and so it concerned them, both in point of duty and interest, to submit peaceably and quietly to their new masters, and to pray for their prosperity: notwithstanding all which, they might justly hope for a deliverance at the seventy years’ end, and God might instruct his prophets to declare it before hand, together with the manner of it: “see Waterland’s Script. Vind., part 3. page 28. “The meaning of the words, happy shall he be,” says Dr. Horne, “is, He shall go on and prosper, for the Lord of hosts shall go with him, and fight his battles against the enemy and oppressor of his people, empowering him to recompense upon the Chaldeans the works of their hands, and to reward them as they served Israel. The slaughter of the very infants, mentioned in the last verse, is expressly predicted by Isaiah 13:16; Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. The destruction was to be universal, sparing neither sex nor age. Terrible, but just, are thy judgments, O Lord! The fall of the mystical Babylon is described Revelation 18. in terms and phrases borrowed from this and other prophecies, relating primarily to the ancient city called by that name. Whoever will carefully read over the chapter referred to, with the three subsequent ones, concerning the triumph of Messiah, and the glory of the new Jerusalem, will be able to form proper ideas of the world and the church, and will know where to choose his portion.”
I may be a nobody, in terms of Christendom, but I’m somebody to my Lord and Savior. What more can I ask for, in that regard? Yes, it’s true that I don’t adhere to man-made doctrines. The Scripture is my doctrine, and it’s as plain as day to me. The problem with many of the past theologians is that their interpretations are often influenced by their prejudices and politics. For me, I don’t have any prejudices, and my politics are influenced by my faith. Also, I don’t interpret the Scripture. It doesn’t need interpretation.
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@ Ezekiel,
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Therefore OT verses advocating violence and Genocide are useful in NT Christian teachings. That simple. If Jesus were to order you to kill thousands, would you do it?
You said, “For me, I don’t have any prejudices…”
– Do you expect us to believe that? It is clear from your comments that you are highly prejudiced and biased against Islam, and anyone who doesn’t agree with your narrow views.
You said, “…I don’t interpret the Scripture. It doesn’t need interpretation.”
-The Absurdity of Biblical Literalism has been called the gateway to Christian fundamentalism.
In 1980 Episcopalian pastoral theologian, Urban T. Holmes observed flatly that “Bible literalism is a modern heresy-perhaps the only heresy invented in modern times.”
Reverend Cornel West put it more bluntly, “fundamentalists want to be fundamental about everything except, ‘love thy neighbor.’ ”
Reza Aslan destroys biblical literalism: “The Gospels are absolutely replete with historical errors”
http://www.salon.com/2014/11/17/reza_aslan_destroys_biblical_literalism_the_gospels_are_absolutely_replete_with_historical_errors_and_with_contradictions/
Biblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy: A Journey into a New Christianity Through the Doorway of Matthew’s Gospel
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25817219-biblical-literalism
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Basically you are saying that it is ok for “jesus” to order horrendous and horrible genocide in 1 samuel and some other verses. Interesting…
Btw what God “justice” to do with killing innocent infants? or cattle? or even plants??
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Fawaz, you said, “So basically the (re)emergence of Islam prevented the destruction of the Jewish community at the hands of Christian Byzantine emperor.”
What do you mean by the “(re)emergence” of Islam?
Also, you said, “Funny, I read the Qur’an in original arabic every single day but NEVER found anything that it confirm the truth of “news testament”.
The Qur’an confirms the Injil of prophet Isa not the greek writings by unknown authors.”
The Injil is the New Testament. The Gospel wasn’t given to Jesus, it was written about Him, His ministry, His death and Resurrection, His ascension into Heaven to be seated at the right hand of God the Father, and the growth of the Church in its early days. It’s finally finished with the prophesies contained in the Apocalypsis of St. John, also known as the Book of Revelation. By the way, His name was Yeshua. If I’m not mistaken, the Arabic version of that name is Yasua, so I have no idea who “Isa” is, but he isn’t Jesus.
I should also point out that Jesus commanded His followers to go out and share His message with the world. At the time, Greek was the lingua franca of the world around them. As such, the New Testament was written in Greek to aid in spreading the Gospel to the world.
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@ Ezekiel,
Your failure to understand what Fawaz meant when he referred to (re)emergence of Islam, illustrates your weak understanding of our faith. Who then are you to lecture Muslims on what is the Injeel?
The four Gospels and Christian NT scriptures are clearly NOT synonymous with the injeel. They make numerous unhistorical claims about Jesus which cannot possibly be true. The injeel is a revelation given by God to Jesus Quran 5:46, it is this that is the injeel and not the fabricated and clearly uninspired books written by your unknown pseudepigraphal authors who wrote forgeries and attributed them back to the names of Patriarchs who had long since passed and could not defend their good names from such lies.
The Injeel most surely contained the core teaching that is also in Qur’an and Torah that is there is only One God, absolute and unique in his oneness, we should worship only that God, live good lives doing good deeds, repent when we make mistakes, and find salvation through the forgiveness of that One true God. The Qur’an acknowledges that parts of this core message are found in existing scripture but that it is not coterminous with Qur’an.
Regretfully, the fullness of the Injeel was lost, because of short sighted early Christians, who rather than focusing on that core message and the oneness of God, focused instead on worshipping a mortal man, and were then forced to innovate false doctrines like Trinity, blood sacrifice, atonement by the cross, resurrection etc. in order to justify their own misinterpretations and misunderstandings which they had become entrenched in even up until this day. While they were focused on the religion which they had created about Jesus, they failed to develop a methodology to preserve and maintain the original revelation of Injeel which Jesus had received from God. Now all that remains are questionable stories about Jesus teachings, which may or may not be true. The Religion OF Jesus became the Religion ABOUT Jesus.
Christians have no one to blame but themselves for losing the full revelation of Injeel which Prophet Jesus received. By the Grace, blessing and Promise of Allah – we PRESERVED the text which we received.”
I regard to the Greek text, and sharing the Gospel with the world, Jesus did not claim to be a universal prophet, and if you question this, it is your own Prophet who answers you, “But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” As your earliest extent scripture is in Greek, it is not the original autograph of the revelation of Jesus which was received in Aramaic. You have Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, in Greek, but where is the Gospel of Jesus in Aramaic?
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//Also, you said, “Funny, I read the Qur’an in original arabic every single day but NEVER found anything that it confirm the truth of “news testament”.
The Qur’an confirms the Injil of prophet Isa not the greek writings by unknown authors.”
The Injil is the New Testament. The Gospel wasn’t given to Jesus, it was written about Him, His ministry, His death and Resurrection, His ascension into Heaven to be seated at the right hand of God the Father, and the growth of the Church in its early days. It’s finally finished with the prophesies contained in the Apocalypsis of St. John, also known as the Book of Revelation. By the way, His name was Yeshua. If I’m not mistaken, the Arabic version of that name is Yasua, so I have no idea who “Isa” is, but he isn’t Jesus.//
I guess this should be addressed to me not br. Fawaz.
Again we believe in the Injil revealed to to Jesus not greek writings with uncertain origin. Here is a good discussion in this blog regarding the Injil of Jesus should you want to participate.
I strongly believe that the Qur’anic Arabic is the medium for the preservation of ancient aramean the language of prophet Ibrahim down to Aramaic the language of prophet Isa as by way of a series of divine revelation.
One prove of its divine origin is the linguistic term for the last of hebrew prophet which the Qur’an use does not follow with hellenised form named “Jesus ” trinitarians use.
In the holy Qur’an it is
In Qur’anic orthographic rule It is spelled: ayn ع – yaa ي- siin س – yaa ى
But the yaa (dotless or with the dot) here do not carry consonontal signifincance only serve as the long vowel for [ee] and [aa] and this rule is called the limited alif or alif maqṣūrah ألف مقصورة.
Now if we look at the Aramaic version of “Jesus”,
It is spelled yudh ܝ, – shin ܫ – waw ܘ – ‘ein ܥ
In Aramaic as well as in hebrew , the yudh (or yod in hebrew) the ܝ is sounded as the consonantal vocal “i” voiced as pharyngeal fricative (/ʕ/), or a similarly articulated consonant exactly like the Qur’anic ع.
For example the hebrew term Ishmael יִשְׁמָעֵאל in hebrew bible use the yod יִ exactly cognate to إ in Qur’anic term for Ismā’īl إسماعيل not Yishmael, because the yod is a weak letter it is always not pronounced as a consonant at the beginning of a word such words are pronounced as though they began with an Aleph.
Also the letter waw ܘ this serves as an [o] vowel thus it does not carry consonontal signifincance. Similarly for the letter ‘ein ܥ it only provide the long vowel for the consonant shin which carry it.
So the name ܝܫܘܥ is pronounced eeshoo and in Jesus dialect of Aramaic like the Northern Palestinian Jews and the melkites in Iraq which is it is pronounced Eesaa just like what is pronounced in the Qur’an.
Here I have a video from the ancient city of Karamlish near Iraqi city of Mosul, a sermon delivered in Aramaic speaking church where the priest cleary refer to Jesus as Maran Eesaa Mseekha in the 0:54 – 56 marks on this video,
Surely this ancient church (who proudly view themselves as the first Christian community, dating back to the time of the Apostles) predates the revelation of the Quran.
As an Aramaic speaker himself “Jesus” had most likely called himself Eesa as in the Qur’an than the anglo-graeco “Jeezess” . The Quranic terminology proves more accurate it is indeed another prove of its divine origin.
Now interestingly why modern arabic church use the term yasuu’a يسوع not ʿĪsā عیسَی ?
This is more likely because of theological reason, this form yasuu’a to sound like in modern Hebrew word יְשׁוּעָה (pronounced y’shu’ah) is the feminine noun meaning “salvation”. Christians have made it to appear that “Jesus” imply salvation.
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Jazak Allah khyran, br Eric.
I think you should put this comment as a separate post on this blog.
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Eric,
Great comment! Thank you for explaining about name of Isaa. I agree with Abdullah that you should make this the subject of a separate post.
It is interesting to learn that for theological reason, the form yasuu’a was used in order to sound like in modern Hebrew word יְשׁוּעָה (pronounced y’shu’ah) is the feminine noun meaning “salvation”. Christians have made it to appear that “Jesus” implies salvation.
This should be investigated further, because if this is true, then it means that Christians have deceived both themselves and others literally, “In the name of Jesus.”
How shameful, to manipulate the meaning of the very name of a Prophet of God in order to deceive!!
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“What’s interesting about this is what Jesus said in Matthew 5:38-42, “38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.” In other words, in that one moment, He did away with the principle set forth in Exodus 21:21-25.”
pathetic . noah 4 more than 500 years was turning the other cheek . jesus’ thuggish behaviour in the temple is far from turning the other cheek. how many times does one turn the other cheek? till one becomes cheekless?
do you give all your money take up your cross and scavenge out of bins?
are you homeless and waiting for kingdom of god to replace theocracies?
what happens if one is struck in the chest? turn the other cheek?
can magistrates beat the shit out of people if they misbehave?
paul says the romans don’t bear the sword for no reason.
slaves should obey their masters in all possible ways even when master wants to rape them.
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you can’t do away with eternal laws
yhwh says his laws are eternal and the messiah was suppose to do them too. laws like punishing and killing don’t need temple sacrifices.
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I hope Muslims living in the west have their go bags packed and ready. Tick Toc, Tick Toc indeed.
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Kmac
December 14, 2016 • 11:34 pm
I hope Muslims living in the west have their go bags packed and ready. Tick Toc, Tick Toc indeed
I said;
Yes you are right. This is not the first time Christians showed hatred to humanity. When they were in power in Europe they killed, forced converted and eventually kicked any one who does not belong to them out of Europe and USA.
They refused a ship load of Jews entry into the United States, Christians persecuted Catholics in the United States, Christians killed and persecuted Mormons in the United States etc. and now it is the turn of Muslims.
What history shows is that, any time the Christians like kmac start to unleash their monstrous, satanic and unchristian hatred to other human being they(Christians) are completely beaten up and their wicked and barbaric unchristian hatred is reversed to the good of humanity.
Thanks
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Intellect yes learn from history. If you live in the US or the west, start packing your bags.
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I liked this comment because it exposes the most horrendous of human traits. You can’t hide behind any mask, we saw your naked self…
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you sound like the christian terrorist robert wells.
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Kmac
December 15, 2016 • 12:58 am
Intellect yes learn from history. If you live in the US or the west, start packing your bags
I say;
May be you do not understand English. The history I know is that, the Christians were always humiliated and forced to stop their persecution of minorities, like how they were forced to stop persecuting Catholics in the USA they will be forced to stop Muslim hatred.
Thanks.
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What do you mean by the west?
The land that you have stolen form its indigenous people?
You should yourself learn from the history that your war against Islam is going to fail no matter what.
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As of this moment, I have roughly six minutes until my lunch break is done. I wanted to take a moment and thank all of you. One doesn’t experience growth and change, except through adversity. After several days of insults, contempt and continuous refutations, it’s safe to say I’ve been growing.
Before I go, I have one final point to make. Earlier, I shared a link to a site containing a list of 353 Old Testament Messianic Prophesies. It ties into my point.
What are the chances that one single person, in all of history, would actually fulfill all of those prophesies? According to research done by Peter Stoner, Professor Emeritus of Science at Westmont College, the odds of any single human being fulfilling 48 of said prophesies is 1 in 10^157.
So, just try imagine such a number. By the way, Jesus did fulfill those prophesies. Anyways, I have to run. Y’all have a blessed life.
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“After several days of insults”
Sorry if we hurt your feelings because you want to exterminate muslims.
No matter what, it seems we are the bad guys for those who “love” their enemies.
My advice for you, to visit this blog from time to time. You may in shock because you got refuted. It’s ok. Just be open for the truth, you will see it as the sun.
If you have noticed that christians believe first, then they try to find some evidences to support their belif while you should do the opposite.
May Allah guide to his light.
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“By the way, Jesus did fulfill those prophesies” Lol. If that was true you wouldn’t have to stress it this way. I advise you to watch Rabbi Skobac on the issue, and the refutation will continue.
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@ Ezekiel,
In regard to the odds you mentioned in relation to the link you provided listing 353 separate Old Testament prophesies, from Genesis to Malachi, which are all supposedly fulfilled by Jesus. If I was a betting man (ya haraam) I would place my money on modern textual critical scholarship, as well as Jewish Interpretation all if which indicate that Stoners list is really just a listing of 353 instances of biased Christian reinterpretational eisegesis, misinterpretation, misunderstanding, redaction, and plain old wishful thinking, with the intent to force a highly disagreeable OT to agree with an extremely contradictory NT.
I am sure I would win that bet!
The NT does not dovetail with OT, it is like forcing a square into a round circle.
SO you’ll have to do much better than that to impress us!
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you won the bet. my friend… there’s a reason Jews were never convinced by those “proofs”.. we know how to read our bible without the “help” of pagan man worshipers
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