Thanks God for the holy Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him, the eternal light and blessing for mankind, the most noble descendant of Prophets Abraham and Ishmael (peace be upon them), the Menaḥēm/Paraclete and the restorer of true monotheism.
~12 Rabi‘ al-awwal ١٢ ربيع الأوّل ~
Categories: Islam
Blogging Theology 
Eternal?
This word can be understood as without beginning.
Maybe you should use a different word like “lasting” to avoid confusion.
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I choose the wording without leaning on any particular interpretation camp other than that Prophet Muhammad (and to a lesser extent other prophets) symbolize God’s Truth .
Thank you for your suggestion.
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Muhammad the eternal light…really?
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why not?
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Eric aka Sir Shirks Alot asks…
“Why not” lol
Ummm lets go wth only the LORD is the ETERNAL anything much less the ETERNAL LIGHT
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dc, can you tell me if you are feeling well?
you gave your god co-existence in two different places.
so do you believe in emptied 100 % god + human nature + “son of man” in heaven who is not empty?
is the “son of man” in heaven DIFFERENT to the empty son of man on earth?
can you explain have these two pagan gods are 1 ?
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“Son of man was on earth and in heaven at the same time, that’s what the verse says!”
interesting
so you have empty god on earth + human nature
and then you have this same person existing in heaven as….?
you have father in heaven
and his ghost
plus the holy ghost is a ghost too
even a pagan would feel ashamed of your pagan beliefs.
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Hi Mr Heathcliff
Its omnipresent which is what Islam teaches doesnt it?
We created man and We know what his own self whispers to him. We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. (Surah Qaf: 16)
Is he closer to 6 billion people all at the same time or not?
How on earth is allah near to man?
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quote:
Its omnipresent which is what Islam teaches doesnt it?
We created man and We know what his own self whispers to him. We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. (Surah Qaf: 16)
Is he closer to 6 billion people all at the same time or not?
How on earth is allah near to man?
end quote
you see the difference is that the attribute of ALL power is important for all seeing and all hearing. without it, you get something called christianity and hinduism where god becomes deaf at distance. your language is loaded with your pagan belief.
God can know without needing to be in something. surely he knew about the land israel before He even created it. surely He heard the people in israel, before He even created them.
you know your voice, God knew of that before he even put you on this planet.
God does not need to be in every city in the UK to know what people are saying and thinking.
MAYBE like a pagan you think GOd is in jugular vein?
IF GOd sees and hears and has control and power at the same time, then what is finite creation?
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“the eternal light and blessing for mankind” No thats not shirk, not shirk at all LOL
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Indeed it isn’t. Your silly comment just shows your ignorance
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Hi Kmac
What does the eternal mean to you? Or is this Muslims trying to change history once again and elevate Muhammad to a status he can never ever claim.
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hi dc,
trust me , this is not off topic , i just want to expose your double standards.
can the man jesus, with human eyes, see like the father in heaven?
since jesus the man may have had communicated with the fully divine side in the SAME person, then could the fully human side EXPERIENCE the divine side and see LIKE the father in heaven?
1 person, 2 natures.
did the same PERSON who was fully human and fully divine see as fully human what the father in heaven sees?
if yes, then if your god can immortalise finite sight and make humans experience the divine , what is your problem with making another human eternal light?
although i don’t believe “eternal light,” i am just using your pagan beliefs to show you that one can use your beliefs to prove many things as eternal , or switching between finite and eternal.
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Hi Mr Heathcliff
What is all this about double standards?
This is what Jesus said…Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
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elijah went to heaven
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You obviously didn’t read the verse…even the son of man which is in heaven. On Earth and heaven at the same time.
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2 Kings 2:11
And it was that they were going, walking and talking, and behold a fiery chariot and fiery horses, and they separated them both. And Elijah ascended to heaven in a whirlwind.
now if i am correct, moses and elijah descended to earth BEFORE elijah ascended .
i clearly understood what your pagan texts were saying. i just noted that elijah seems to have done the ascending and descending job before your god even existed.
you didn’t answer none of my questions about jesus /1 person, 2natures
if 1 person, 2natures = fully god and fully human
does fully human communicated and talk to fully god considering both are the SAME person?
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What are you on about??
now if i am correct, moses and elijah descended to earth BEFORE elijah ascended .
i clearly understood what your pagan texts were saying. i just noted that elijah seems to have done the ascending and descending job before your god even existed.
Son of man was on earth and in heaven at the same time, that’s what the verse says!
Your questions are answered if you read the bible without your pagan Islamic preconceived ideas, and your lack of understanding of Christian theology.
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“Son of man was on earth and in heaven at the same time, that’s what the verse says!
Your questions are answered if you read the bible without your pagan Islamic preconceived ideas, and your lack of understanding of Christian theology.”
quote :
13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[a]
your god descended, if he descended he could not been in heaven while he descended.
and your pagan text is contradicted by the book of kings because elijah did ascend before your pagan flesh god existed.
“no one has ascended into heaven…” is a pagan lie.
you still did not answer my question
is 1 person, 2 natures (jesus)
fully conscious in the flesh that he is a flesh god?
is the human bit fully conscious of this? does he chat to the same person who is “fully god” ?
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Paul Williams wrote…
Indeed it isn’t. Your silly comment just shows your ignorance
My response: Maybe you can enlighten me, but one of the ways to commit shirk is to ascribe attributes that belong to God to a mere human being. Since one of Gods attributes is ETERNITY or being an Eternal being then how is calling Mohamed a “Eternal light” not committing shirk?
DefendChrist, Eternal means what Eternal means Existing forever. i was being sarcastic when I said calling Mohamed the Eternal Light was not shirk
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Radmod,
Saying Prophet Muhammad as the eternal light is not the same as saying prophet Muhammad as god (God forbids). Prophet Muhammad was just a man the same as prophet Isa (peace be upon him) .
There is a verse in the Qur’an which says:
This phrase light of God is frequently associated with the guidance that comes by way of the prophets and revelation (see 6: 91; 7: 157; 21: 48; 42: 52; 57: 9, 28).
From this context, the Light of God can be used as a reference to the Prophet Muhammad who is referred to elsewhere as a luminous lamp
That the Prophet was sent as a luminous light refers foremost to his function as a spiritual guide: the light from God Al Mighty, the Eternal.
People like you try hard to extinguish the light, but God will always shine through His Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Amen.
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“Son of man was on earth and in heaven at the same time, that’s what the verse says!”
quote:
No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man
and john does not have a virgin birth, his god came down as a flesh god probably fully formed.
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John doesnt have to talk about the virgin birth he wrote what God wanted him to write.
He is telling you and everyone WHO is coming into the world.
You need to read the 4 different historical narratives whether you believe them not.
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“John doesnt have to talk about the virgin birth he wrote what God wanted him to write.”
well put it this way. if you didn’t know jesus was born of a virgin, what would you think?
like the pagan gods before him, he incarnated . think about it.
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Kmac and defendcrist.
I agree with and every Muslim agree with you that prophet Mohamed is not eternal and prophet Jesus is not eternal.
What the “eternal light” means may be something different. Certainly does not mean prophet Mohammed is eternal.
Muslims must be careful when dealing with Christians using words like emanate, dwell, eternal, emptied, everywhere, omnipresent, etc.
The Christians understood this words differently and further explanation is required to clear their mind that it is not what and how they mean.
Avoiding the use where necessary with Christians will be better. If it cannot be avoided, then further explanation is required.
We accuse the Christians for that, and we must explain to them when we use those words.
Allah said prophet Jesus and Mohammed are his mercy to mankind. It means when God created them He sent them as mercy to mankind. It does not mean His eternal mercy because mercy is not a human being or a divine being.
Thanks.
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“eternal light” seems like that should only be for God the Father and Christ (2nd Person of the Trinity, same substance as the Father).
1 John 1:5
John 1:4-5
John 8:12
1 Timothy 6:16
seems like you guys are committing Shirk, by calling Muhammad, “eternal light”.
Except “intellect” seems right by Islamic doctrine.
Is the quote from the Qur’an or a Hadith passage?
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jesus bled and died, he didn’t glow .
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He glowed at the Mount of Transfiguration when He allowed His glorious light to burst forth. Mark 9, Matthew 17
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“He glowed at the Mount of Transfiguration when He allowed His glorious light to burst forth. Mark 9, Matthew 17”
but we know that is a lie. if each nail punctured jesus, why didn’t the light leak out ?
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Your wooden literalistic mind is childish.
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so your god is fully human then?
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does glowing make someone a god?
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Prophet Muhammad was sent by God a luminous light وَدَاعِيًا إِلَى اللَّهِ بِإِذْنِهِ وَسِرَاجًا مُّنِيرًا And one who invites to Allah , by His permission, and an illuminating light (33:46). This must be understood foremost to his function as a predestined spiritual guide for all mankind. He is the light from God Al Mighty, the Eternal.
https://bloggingtheology.net/2016/12/13/thanks-god-for-prophet-muhammad-pbuh/#comment-35896
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Ken
Whats funny is they falsely accuse us of worshiping a man-god, when we worship the GOD that became a Man, when they either worship a “watermelon” or an actual Man God. Allah the man but he is not like any man.
Another thing I would like to point out is the Muslim escape clause “By allah’s will”. It seems that allah can do anything by his will, make Mohamed the eternal light, give Jesus creation powers, so it begs the question why can’t allah by his will become a man.
Oh wait allah is a man he is just not like any man.
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“We worship God that became a man”
Boy, you are funny bobby..
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Kamk, Don’t bring the ignorance of the clown and his boys here.
Muslims have debated the (attributes of Allah), yet no one said Allah has become incarnate. I challenge all christians to prove that.
Your pagan minds cannot read the text of Quran except by applying the pagan methods on it as what you did with the hebrew bible.
Your problem of is that God has become 100% man. Here’s the problem. It’s not about that Hand or Face of God. Easily we can turn the table on you. We read about the (face of God) in the OT, has any jew said that God is incarnate because he has face?
Also, Animals have faces & human beings have faces, does that imply that they are like each others?
This game is like the game of Nabeel when he said muslims should worship Quran as God himself.
Christians please! If you are so embarrassed that you’re pagans, then don’t force your paganism on the others’ beliefs. Stop your paganism and the problem would be solved.
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Abdullah wrote…
“yet no one said Allah has become incarnate. I challenge all christians to prove that.”
My response you really need to think before you type. .Yes I know no Muslim ever said allah became incarnate and thats the PROBLEM. See allah has always existed as a MAN but not like any Man lol. See the true God did not exist as a MAN, instead he became incarnate unlike your GOD who either is a MAN (not like any man) or a Watermelon (but not like any watermelon) lol.
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“See allah has always existed as a MAN but not like any Man lol”
Where have muslims said that ? as a man?
Sorry, we still speak the norm language for any human being. We know that God is God & human being is a human beings! Again, it’s your own problem . You need to create another language to describe your paganism.
If I proved that you have a face & leg, for example, does that mean that I prove that you’re like the cow? since the cow has a face and leg.
I told you, don’t bring the clown’s ignorance and his boys here.
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Abdullah also wrote…
” Easily we can turn the table on you. We read about the (face of God) in the OT, has any jew said that God is incarnate because he has face?
Also, Animals have faces & human beings have faces, does that imply that they are like each others?”
My response no you can not since their is no table to turn. WE Christians have no problem with God having and taking on anthropomorphic attributes, we have no problem with this because GOD, did BECOME a man in our histories past.
Your appeal to un beliving Jews does you no good since 1. God did not become incarnate during the time of the OT and 2. Because believing JEWS did believe during the time of Jesus and after Jesus that God did become incarnate. They were later called Christians
You point regarding animals is restating your problem. NO Animals(creatures) are not like each other so saying God has a face but it is not like our face does not help you since I have a face and my face is not like your face lol. It is till an attribute of creation. .
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“we have no problem with this because GOD, did BECOME a man in our histories past”
Yes! Your god did become a man, sleeping, eating, and defecating.
Your god did become a (created being).
Here’s is the problem. Can’t you see it?
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“God BECOMES a man”
It is hinduism 101
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Abdullah wrote…
Yes! Your god did become a man, sleeping, eating, and defecating.
Your god did become a (created being).
Here’s is the problem. Can’t you see it?
My response: Again not a problem since he did not always exist as a Man second the divine nature and the human nature did not mix. But your god has always BEEN a man but not like any man. Besides using the Islamic escape clause for your shirky god, he can become incarnate if he wills it.
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// the divine nature and the human nature did not mix//
If it does not mix so does everyone else. What makes it special?
We believe God is very close to us so close that He is closer to our jugular vein but of course it does not mix. God remains with Godly nature and Godly will and we are still human beings with own wills.
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Eric chimed in
Hinduism 101.
Erick I don’t know muhc aout Hinduism so can you please explain how an eternal being entering into human flesh in an incarnation is hinduim 101?
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Yes that’s hinduism: the belief that divine being comes down from the heaven and assumes the form of human beings.
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“My response: Again not a problem since he did not always exist as a Man second the divine nature and the human nature did not mix. But your god has always BEEN a man but not like any man. Besides using the Islamic escape clause for your shirky god, he can become incarnate if he wills it.”
what kind of a absurdity is this ?
you are saying
person with divine nature took of his divine nature and added on human flesh?
you said “human nature did not mix”
that is because you have a person of god CREATING a separate existence for himself
it is like your person assuming the nature of a fish in a tank , but MINUS your human nature lol
“he did not always exist as a man”
does this make sense?
if he always saw everything past, present and future
heard everything past, present and future
is control of everything, past , present and future
then you are ASSUMING he stepped out of this, became DISABLED , and FULLY experienced CREATING himself!
why then, is it not logical to WORSHIP the human being since it is, according to you,
divine person – divine nature + FLESH
???
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“Your appeal to un beliving Jews does you no good since 1. God did not become incarnate during the time of the OT and 2.”
actually, all you need to do is check up the scholarship on this , outside of jewish and christian apologetic, the view is that the early jews did view their 1 god as an anthropomorphic diety who used to visit them. it was not yhwh sending his “angel of the lord” lord, yhwh used to visit as a complete PERSON to have a chat with his children.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9oMgD-C2FPukAm_akcIiEZM8s9FcBx9P_qPoU8LnmzypGrSyY
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“Erick I don’t know muhc aout Hinduism so can you please explain how an eternal being entering into human flesh in an incarnation is hinduim 101?”
it is scholarly view that gods who came down slept, eat, crapped, but did have access to their divine powers
quote:
any gods in pagan religions of the past which
1. did not sleep
2. did not eat
3. had power over nature
4. did not die (in the flesh)
5. and were able to control everything even when they appeared like humans?
Bart October 4, 2016
They did eat, have power, and were immortal. None of them could control everything though.
comment : do you see that when james white says “he didn’t glow” , i understand that white and christians have picked up ideas from their pagan religious beliefs of the ancients, the reason is that the language is very similar.
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Mr Heathclif wrote
“what kind of a absurdity is this ?
you are saying
person with divine nature took of his divine nature and added on human flesh?
My response: YES that is exactly what we are saying. Congratulations you are the first and I mean that the actual very first Muslim I have encountered to actually get what Christians believe.
And no it is not absurd. What is absurd is the Muslim objection to the doctrine of the incarnation when they believe in a MAN God who has always existed as a MAN GOD just not like any other MAN GOD.
You wrote…
“you said “human nature did not mix”
that is because you have a person of god CREATING a separate existence for himself”
I say: Oh you almost had it, so close. Yes we do have a person of God creating the human flesh that his divine nature would take on, but this is not a “separate existence” as in God creating another GOD.
You wrote…
“it is like your person assuming the nature of a fish in a tank , but MINUS your human nature lol”
My response: NO its nothing like that. Why is it that Muslims must commit shirk in order to attack what Christians believe.
You wrote…
““he did not always exist as a man”
does this make sense?”
My response: Yes it makes perfect sense to me and to Christians. It may not make sense to you because your god has always existed as a MAN god\watermelon but not like any man or watermelon.
The human being JESUS the flesh that the divine nature created to add to himself was CREATED in the 1st century AD. The Divine nature did not always have a human nature to himself.
You wrote…
“then you are ASSUMING he stepped out of this, became DISABLED , and FULLY experienced CREATING himself!
why then, is it not logical to WORSHIP the human being since it is, according to you, “
My response: No I’m not assuming anything God DID put aside his exalted status, temporarily laying aside some of his divine attributes to take on the form of a servant. See Phil 2:5-14
It is not logical to worship the human being since we do not combine or separate the substance, We do not say or believe that the divine nature mixed with the human nature and became something new. Nor do we divide the substance, we do not say the divine nature begins here, and the human nature ends there. We worship the GOD-MAN not the MAN separate from the divine nature
No what is really funny is that if you were true and consistent in your theology you would not have a problem with this, because all you would have to say it is “by allahs will” that the incarnation is able to occur.
So you have nothing to complain about.
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“But your god has always BEEN a man but not like any man”
This is a typical argument of a straw-man!
When have Quran, Sunnah, and muslims ever said such absurdity that ” god has always been a man” ?!
The clown has turned you to be stupid followers officially.
================
“Did not mix” !
What’s this supposed to mean?
Did your god become a man or he just dwelled inside the body of Jesus?
Also, when you say Jesus is God himself is not accurate according to ” did not mix” thing!!, is it?
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“My response: YES that is exactly what we are saying. Congratulations you are the first and I mean that the actual very first Muslim I have encountered to actually get what Christians believe.”
yes, i believe you worship a disabled pagan god who drops of his “super power costume” and assumes another nature. once you allow him to drop his powers, then god becomes a creature i.e you worship 100 % human being
you see, once you say “divine nature is accessed” then anything finite can access this too
for example, does the person with human nature have ACCESS to the divine person…..hold on they are the SAME person lol….which implies…. the same person can jump into the SAME persons mind anytime i.e the human person who is also the divine person (same person) can “switch”
“become”
“change”
“And no it is not absurd. What is absurd is the Muslim objection to the doctrine of the incarnation when they believe in a MAN God who has always existed as a MAN GOD just not like any other MAN GOD.”
God in the Quran does not exist as a man. you are making up lies.
“I say: Oh you almost had it, so close. Yes we do have a person of God creating the human flesh that his divine nature would take on, but this is not a “separate existence” as in God creating another GOD.”
the
person with divine powers creating human flesh “plused” to his PERSON lol
so god has increased in ignorance, lack of knowledge, growing in wisdom and fully conscious of being ANOTHER self .
just think about it this way. forget the words “human nature” and “flesh”
lets just think for a moment about the MIND of your pagan god.
MIND is invisible
human MIND is invisible
you are assuming , divine INVISIBLE mind FULLY experiences the INVISIBLE human mind and human SOUL
now you don’t have excuse “this is the flesh” ….. no…. this is “divine mind BECOMING finite lol
BECOMING finite in its thought and reasoning
this is blasphemy , but this blasphemy allows you pagans to worship a human MIND
this means that the PERSON of god HAS CLEARLY changed which implies another god.
either you have god EXISTING as an IGNORANT one or you have him take on A COSTUME and praying through it and talking through it to another god in heaven
either you are “masking” your god
or you are creating a separate existence
You wrote…
“it is like your person assuming the nature of a fish in a tank , but MINUS your human nature lol”
My response: NO its nothing like that. Why is it that Muslims must commit shirk in order to attack what Christians believe.
WRONG
it is like that.
you either have a separate existence for god, MINUS his “divine powers,” or you have him experience through his divine powers the human feelings i.e the divine powers become humanised
analogy
human adds on to his MIND fish mind
now the human exists as FISH and human mind @ the same time
how many minds? if you say “one mind” then we have the human mind FULLY experiencing the fish mind, i.e yhwh’s mind fully experienced human ignorance lol, which means the divine mind and the human mind are FUSED and MIXED
otherwise you creation SEPARATE conscious SELF existence for the same persons which implies 2 gods…even having him exist as 2 natures i see this as 2 gods.
You wrote…
““he did not always exist as a man”
does this make sense?”
“My response: Yes it makes perfect sense to me and to Christians. It may not make sense to you because your god has always existed as a MAN god\watermelon but not like any man or watermelon.”
what kind of pagan response is this? ?
”
The human being JESUS the flesh that the divine nature created to add to himself was CREATED in the 1st century AD. The Divine nature did not always have a human nature to himself.”
the human conscious person called “jesus” was
either a unconscious MASK
or a conscious human being who saw, heard and experienced like a HUMAN being
how did god experience this conscious human being?
through his divine nature which implies mixture and fusion and dilution
ask your self this question
can your pagan god experience how it is to see, hear and feel like a human being without the flesh?
how about WITHOUT the divine nature? so it is the divine nature which is giving him these feelings, right? lol
can you experience how it is to be an animal (fish) without the flesh (human) or fish mind without the human mind ?
yes, it is possible for the creature (trinity) that you worship, because when it “adds on” it creates WITHIN itself a separate CONSCIOUSNESS for itself and fully experiences them
You wrote…
“then you are ASSUMING he stepped out of this, became DISABLED , and FULLY experienced CREATING himself!
why then is it not logical to WORSHIP the human being since it is, according to you, “
”
My response: No I’m not assuming anything God DID put aside his exalted status, temporarily laying aside some of his divine attributes to take on the form of a servant. See Phil 2:5-14″
so lets see your reasoning
god – some divine nature , keeping other powers = disabled, deformed and handicapped god + human conscious person
so your “laying aside” god FULLY experience THROUGH his disabled divine nature human consciousness and human self which implies contradiction.
your not only have disability within your god but a HUMAN thinking SELF
what a blasphemy !
“It is not logical to worship the human being since we do not combine or separate the substance, ”
you are having your god THROUGH his divine nature, EXPERIENCE the damn human nature.
so you clearly have divinised the human being because it is part of “god with divine powers”
“We do not say or believe that the divine nature mixed with the human nature and became something new.”
this is bs!
your god ALWAYS starts of with divine powers
without his divine powers , what and who is he?
” Nor do we divide the substance, we do not say the divine nature begins here, and the human nature ends there. We worship the GOD-MAN not the MAN separate from the divine nature”
so when the 1 person, 2 natures is sleeping then the PERSON is logically sleeping including the divine person who is SAME as the human person lol
so you clearly have mixture and dilution.
when the person was sleeping was the same person not sleeping lol?
was he playing tiddlywinks?
”
No what is really funny is that if you were true and consistent in your theology you would not have a problem with this, because all you would have to say it is “by allahs will” that the incarnation is able to occur.
So you have nothing to complain about.”
what?
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Abdllah wrote…
“This is a typical argument of a straw-man!
When have Quran, Sunnah, and muslims ever said such absurdity that ” god has always been a man” ?!”
My response: No its not. See the problem is you Muslims don’t think your theology through. This is what Islamic quran states about Allahs parts.
1. He has eyes, feet, two right hands, he has a face etc…
2. Alahs parts i.e. his eyes, feet, two right hands, his face etc… are not like our parts, hands, feet, face etc..
3. So allah is a man in that he has hands, feet, eyes etc… they are just not like our hands, feet etc…
4. SO your god is a MAN-god but he is not like any other man or Man-god
5. your god has always existed with Man parts just not like any man parts we have lol.
Now if you say those parts are oly figurative then what do you worship a “watermelon” lol
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“Did your god become a man or he just dwelled inside the body of Jesus?”
that would me “masking god”
which is not what they believe
their god is not “jesus costume”
the divine person with divine powers FULLY experienced as a CONSCIOUS self human hearing, seeing , taste, sleep and weakness
i.e
when the SAME person was sleeping this implies 1 person, 2 natures was SLEEPING lol
they try to confuse people
but think about it carefully
they are creating a CONSCIOUS FINITE self for their god and the divine “logos” fully experience in his person (divine)the feeling of being human
it is same person @ the same time existing as finite person lol
and it KNOWS it is finite because its powers give it that feeling..
it is the SAME person (finite)which can fully experience the SAME person (infinite) lol
it is not god “dwelling” it is god BECOMING.
one has to carefully catch them out when they switch between “dwelling” and “becoming”
they play with words and are deceivers and liars.
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“1. He has eyes, feet, two right hands, he has a face etc…
2. Alahs parts i.e. his eyes, feet, two right hands, his face etc… are not like our parts, hands, feet, face etc..
3. So allah is a man in that he has hands, feet, eyes etc… they are just not like our hands, feet etc…
4. SO your god is a MAN-god but he is not like any other man or Man-god
5. your god has always existed with Man parts just not like any man parts we have lol.
Now if you say those parts are oly figurative then what do you worship a “watermelon” lol”
when the quran said “everything will perish except Gods face…”
so you really think that the Quran said Gods part/face would remain?
what kind of dumb christian reading are you imposing on the quran?
since a clock has a face, i guess a clock is fully man and fully clock at the same time?
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“what kind of a absurdity is this ?
you are saying
person with divine nature took of his divine nature and added on human flesh?
My response: YES that is exactly what we are saying. Congratulations you are the first and I mean that the actual very first Muslim I have encountered to actually get what Christians believe.”
can i ask, how is your pagan god still alive when he took OFF his nature?
he became BEINGLESS before he added meat to himself ?LOL
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Hi Heathcliff
I dont know if you are purposely acting like you dont understand what Christians are actually saying or you are really uneducated in theology.
Maybe its because with your imagination as Muslim there is no room for actually understanding your own god muchless someone else’s god.
Many Muslims say Allah is one and I say one what? There is no connection between mankind and Allah.
So Heathcliff Allah is one right? One what? Your answer to the tough questions is to not have an answer.
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“My response: No I’m not assuming anything God DID put aside his exalted status, temporarily laying aside some of his divine attributes to take on the form of a servant. See Phil 2:5-14″
define divine nature:
1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
so what is “man-god” currently doing in trinity? is he fully conscious of what the father knows?
is it “man-god” + father + spirit ?
what does “some” mean? the “divine logos” let go off which specific powers in that definition above?
was there 2 persons with FULL divine powers remaining LOL?
or was there a 2nd seat in heaven with some powers left but without person ? lol
so empty personless seat with powers + 2 fully persons who were sharing fully divine powers? lol
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You lol but you sound silly even some of the other muslims made the comment that God does not dwell anywhere.
Here you mocking whether Jesus is on the throne or not but think carefully …
The way the scriptures are given God wants to understand for instance…the king on a theone.
Is God literally sitting on a throne or does he want us to understand a little about authority and majesty.
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“You lol but you sound silly even some of the other muslims made the comment that God does not dwell anywhere.
”
can we see some of your videos in hyde park. i think we will all get an understanding of your problem
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Who are you talking what videos in hyde park? I dont go to hyde park
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“Is God literally sitting on a throne or does he want us to understand a little about authority and majesty.”
you didn’t get it. you missed the point. forget i even mentioned the word “seat”
take the word out and now try to understand what i meant
is this what you do in hyde park?
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Mr wrote…
“when the quran said “everything will perish except Gods face…”
so you really think that the Quran said Gods part/face would remain?”
My response wow, so allahs two right hands will perish, his shin will perish, his eye or eyes will parish? BTW does allah have a soul but its not like our soul?
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Mr wrote…
“so what is “man-god” currently doing in trinity? is he fully conscious of what the father knows? ”
My response: I don’t know since I don’t believe in a man-god, you might want to ask your Imam about that since allah truelly is a MAN-god lol
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bobby, Islam don’t have man-god concept, God is NOT a man, trinitarianism does.
Interestingly you said you don’t believe man-god, are you a unitarian now or considering to become a muslim?
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Eric chimed in
“Islam don’t have man-god concept,”
My response: Does allah have hands, feet, eyes, shin, feet a face etc…?
Eric wrote: “God is NOT a man, trinitarianism does.”
My response: You say your God is not a man yet he has and always had a face, hands, eyes, shin, feet etc… Now you may say “But his hands, feet, face etc.. are not like our hands, feet, face etc…” To which I respond ok, so he is a man but not like any man, but he is still a man. As far as your statement ” trinitarianism does”, I have no idea what you meant by that.
Eric wrote “Interestingly you said you don’t believe man-god, are you a unitarian now or considering to become a muslim?”
My response: How you jump from Christians not believing what Muslims believe and that is in a man-god to being a Unitarian I have no idea. But no I am in the LORD Jesus hands and he does not let go of his people.
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Which Islamic sources says that those anthropomorphic illustration of God entail human qualities or human-like attributes? It is prohibited to even remotely attempt to understand what it means literally or figuratively. We can not do that as there is nothing that can be compared to God. Thats why the trinitatian belief that God ever became a human: a demigod or god-man creature is the most absurd and taboo concept in Islam.
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The stupidity of the clown’s followers is out of limit.
Why are christians so desperate to prove that muslims worship a human being? Are christians so ashamed from worshipping a human being?
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Eric thinks he has come to rescue the Muslims when he writes….
“Which Islamic sources says that those anthropomorphic illustration of God entail human qualities or human-like attributes?”
My response…
So there human or human like attributes hmmm so then allah is a monkey-god? He;s a dog-god, etc…
Do you know anything else that has a face, hands, feet etc….? Maybe he is a space-alien-god? But again not like any space-alien-god or monkey-god, or dog-god.
Eric continues….
“It is prohibited to even remotely attempt to understand what it means literally or figuratively.”
My response: Stating Islams problem\dilemma does you know good. Yes I can understand why it is prohibited to think in Islam, because if you did you would have to come to the logical conclusion that allah is a something-god who has a face, hands, feet etc…
You wrote…
“We can not do that as there is nothing that can be compared to God.”
My response: This is funny on so many levels. First I have accurately stated over and over again that although Muslims believe allah has a face, feet, hands etc… they are not like any mans face, feet, and hands. But hey guess what, your hands are not like my hands, and your face is not like my face, etc…Not only that but your face, feet and hands are not like a monkey’s or a dog or a what ever that has a face but its still a face it is distinct from the rest of his celestial body parts, its just not like ours but again still a face.
The other way its funny is because you state there is nothing like him and yet you write the following…
“Thats why the trinitatian belief that God ever became a human: a demigod or god-man creature is the most absurd and taboo concept in Islam.”
First seriously can you just top attacking straw men we don’t believing in a demigod.
But the real funny part is do you know of any TRIUNE BEING anywhere. A being that is distinctly ONE BEING and three distinct persons? So you attack the triune GOD becasue he is unique and nothing like him and say that you believe in a God that has a face, feet and hands which although are nothing like anything elses face, feet, and hands they are still a face, feet and hands LOL.
Do you see the irony here? I believe in a truly unique nothing like him God while you believe in a God that is well nothing out of the ordinary.
But you cant see the irony because your man-god or monkey-god, or space-alien-god forbids you to THINK.
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“Which Islamic sources says that those anthropomorphic illustration of God entail human qualities or human-like attributes?”
Radmod: //So there human or human like attributes hmmm so then allah is a monkey-god? He;s a dog-god, etc…
Do you know anything else that has a face, hands, feet etc….? Maybe he is a space-alien-god? But again not like any space-alien-god or monkey-god, or dog-god.//
Is English your first language, try again: I ask you for a proof from Islamic sources which says that anthropomorphic illustration of God entail human qualities or human-like attributes. Where? Talk is cheap, give us any evidences.
On the contrary the majority Islamic scholars prohibit even to THINK about this notion let alone to discuss this. The minority position goes even further that this anthropomorphism are purely symbolic.
“It is prohibited to even remotely attempt to understand what it means literally or figuratively.”
//Radmod: Stating Islams problem\dilemma does you know good. Yes I can understand why it is prohibited to think in Islam, because if you did you would have to come to the logical conclusion that allah is a something-god who has a face, hands, feet etc…//
No because , Nothing compares to God. Thats what scripture said:
//Radmod: This is funny on so many levels. First I have accurately stated over and over again that although Muslims believe allah has a face, feet, hands etc… they are not like any mans face, feet, and hands. But hey guess what, your hands are not like my hands, and your face is not like my face, etc…Not only that but your face, feet and hands are not like a monkey’s or a dog or a what ever that has a face but its still a face it is distinct from the rest of his celestial body parts, its just not like ours but again still a face.//
You go in circles. No muslims believe Muslims believe “Allah has a face, feet, hands etc” Our position is just to leave the narrations pertaining to those Attributes as they are, we have to stop there and are not allowed to induce upon their literal meaning any interpretation / ta’weel whatsoever. We must just accept it as the way God revealed to His creations using the language that we converse to each other.
“Thats why the trinitatian belief that God ever became a human: a demigod or god-man creature is the most absurd and taboo concept in Islam.”
//First seriously can you just top attacking straw men we don’t believing in a demigod.
But the real funny part is do you know of any TRIUNE BEING anywhere. A being that is distinctly ONE BEING and three distinct persons? So you attack the triune GOD becasue he is unique and nothing like him and say that you believe in a God that has a face, feet and hands which although are nothing like anything elses face, feet, and hands they are still a face, feet and hands LOL.//
The “triune god”, god who became man, god who were hungry and made mistakes is NO unique. It is gods of hinduism and paganism whom they are hungry and procreates like humans. So by setting up this “”triune god” concept, not only that you are guilty of disgracing God out of His Godly attributes, you are enforcing an illogical and absurd belief about the attributes of true God, the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them all.
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//First seriously can you just top attacking straw men we don’t believing in a demigod//
A demigod is a human who is also god. Thats what you believe about jesus. I dont think Iv ever setup a strawman here.
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Abdullah wrote…
“The stupidity of the clown’s followers is out of limit.
Why are christians so desperate to prove that muslims worship a human being? Are christians so ashamed from worshipping a human being?”
My response: Abd, show me where I have ever said you worship a human being? I said nor did I imply any such thing. Why is it that I can accurately represent the Islamic position i.e. allah has 2 right hands, feet, eyes etc… and these hands, feet, face are not like anyone’s hands feet and face.
But you must continue to not only misrepresent what Christians believe but misrepresent my position? Are you ashamed that you have no real arguments or rebuttals just strawmen?
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You said
“your god has always been a man”
Not only is this statement a lie, but also is a big one.
If you are so ashamed from worshiping a human being, then say it loudly instead of accusing the others by your paganism.
Again, the clown has tunred you to be stupid officially.
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i find it funny that you believe god did not always live as “god man” but is currently living as one . lol
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Abeed wrote…
You said
“your god has always been a man”
Not only is this statement a lie, but also is a big one.
If you are so ashamed from worshiping a human being, then say it loudly instead of accusing the others by your paganism.
Again, the clown has tunred you to be stupid officially.”
Its not a lie its my position\argument to the Islamic position that allah has eternally had hands, feet, eyes, a face etc… so there for he is a man but not like any man. Saying it is a lie is not a rebuttal to the position.
Seriously as Yahya Snow used to say “Have a think”
Other creatures have hands, feet, eyes, face etc… and they are not like us and they are not like each other. So if allah is not a man with his face, feet, hands etc… even though he is not a man like us then what is he? A watermelon?
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Mr Heathcliff is back with this little gem..
“i find it funny that you believe god did not always live as “god man” but is currently living as one . lol”
You can find it funny and you can laugh all you want. But can u refute it?
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” Islamic position that allah has eternally had hands, feet, eyes, a face etc… so there for he is a man but not like any man”
!!!
So you have decided to keep being a stupid!
Congratulation in the clown’s academy.
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“You can find it funny and you can laugh all you want. But can u refute it?”
can you refute that the pagan god thor did not nail 1 person , 2 natures to the cross?
it is only one pagan god demolished by another.
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Mr Heathcliff says…
““You can find it funny and you can laugh all you want. But can u refute it?”
can you refute that the pagan god thor did not nail 1 person , 2 natures to the cross?”
And those posts a Meme.
My response: Is that your position? Do you have any documentation other that your MEME? Please prove your position as I have done. Making a internet Meme is not proof
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Abeed wrote…
“” Islamic position that allah has eternally had hands, feet, eyes, a face etc… so there for he is a man but not like any man”
!!!
So you have decided to keep being a stupid!
Congratulation in the clown’s academy.”
My response: Insults do not a refutation make.
Lets make this simple. Tell me where I am wrong.
1. Islamic theology states that allah has eyes, face, two right hands, a shin etc… But those parts are not like are parts. Is that correct?
1a, Some Islamic interpretation says these parts are not literal but figurative, while others say they are literal and not figurative. Is that correct?
So question which interpretation do you subcribe to. Is it literal or figurative?
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“Insults do not a refutation make”
Sorry, I don’t refute things that I don’t believe in, in the first place.
You said our God has always been a MAN.
I simply say this is a lie.
And Yes! Keep being stupid.
Your desperation to prove that muslims worship a man, Muhammad pbuh, Quran, or any thing other than Allah implies that you are so ashamed from worshiping a human being sleeping, eating, and defecating !
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Abdeed please try and pay attention.
You wrote…
“You said our God has always been a MAN.
I simply say this is a lie.
And Yes! Keep being stupid.”
My response: Yes that is my presupposition based on the evidence that follows. Evidence you have yet to interact with. So I will present it again.
1. Islamic theology states that allah has eyes, face, two right hands, a shin etc… But those parts are not like are parts. Is that correct?
1a, Some Islamic interpretation says these parts are not literal but figurative, while others say they are literal and not figurative. Is that correct?
So question which interpretation do you subcribe to. Is it literal or figurative?
Abeed wrote..
“Your desperation to prove that muslims worship a man, Muhammad pbuh, Quran, or any thing other than Allah implies that you are so ashamed from worshiping a human being sleeping, eating, and defecating !”
My response: NO I am not proving that Muslim worship a man, I am proving that you worship a MAN-god. So you are incorrect on that. You are also incorrect that I worship a human being. Seriously is it so hard to actually refute what Christians really believe that you have to continually beat as straw-man to death?
One more time I worship the GOD-MAN the God who became a man. Not a man-god who was a man then was exalted or elevated or earned Godship.
Second I do not worship a human-being or a man. We do not divide the substance we do not say I worship this part or that part we worship Jesus the GOD-man fully and completely.
And no I am not ashamed of worshiping Jesus, the only name by which we are saved. I rejoice at the God who came down from heaven and put on human flesh, who although being the very form of God humbled himself by become a servant even to death. I sing songs and hyms of praise to that God for doing just that. I say thank your Lord Jesus.
So getting back to the actual topic can you please answer me..
1. Islamic theology states that allah has eyes, face, two right hands, a shin etc… But those parts are not like are parts. Is that correct?
1a, Some Islamic interpretation says these parts are not literal but figurative, while others say they are literal and not figurative. Is that correct?
So question which interpretation do you subcribe to. Is it literal or figurative?
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A- “I worship the GOD-MAN the God who became a man”
B- “I do not worship a human-being or a man”
C- “we do not say I worship this part or that part we worship Jesus the GOD-man fully and completely.”
???
Did anyone understand what I just read? 🙂
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“One more time I worship the GOD-MAN the God who became a man. ”
but currently man exists within your god. you have to think of 3 persons plus one of them as FULLY man lol
does the man bit see like the daddy, kid and ghost ? i guess he does coz “two natures united”
”
Not a man-god who was a man then was exalted or elevated or earned Godship.”
but don’t you see redundancy in this ? the same person was already “fully god”
so why was the same person “elevated” ? lol
”
Second I do not worship a human-being or a man.”
you worship 1 person, 2 natures
the same person is paradoxically fully man and inside the trinity .
”
We do not divide the substance we do not say I worship this part or that part we worship Jesus the GOD-man fully and completely.”
you worship everything together including the fully man bit, i see….
”
And no I am not ashamed of worshiping Jesus, the only name by which we are saved.”
are you ignorant of the fact that “yeshua” and yeshoshua” were common names back in your pagan gods day? your bs might impress the people in the church , but people in palestine would have laughed at you back in jesus’ day.
when people called out to 3rd person “yeho” and combined shua
trust me , they did not think that yhwh would come down and get his ass kicked by pagans . yhwh , in the torah hands defeat to pagans. it is never the other way around .
”
I rejoice at the God who came down from heaven and put on human flesh, ”
so do the hindus in india .
”
who although being the very form of God humbled himself by become a servant even to death. I sing songs and hyms of praise to that God for doing just that. I say thank your Lord Jesus”
you know why this is a lie?
“humbled himself” is a lie, you know why?
if god sees past, present and future
hears past , present and future
has control over past present and future
CREATES PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
then there is never a time he becomes FINITE .
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“One more time I worship the GOD-MAN the God who became a man. Not a man-god who was a man then was exalted or elevated or earned Godship.”
but the human bit CURRENTLY exists within your god. did the human bit did not get elevated or did not 1 person, 2 natures paradoxically get elevated ?
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” I rejoice at the God who came down from heaven and put on human flesh…”
“put on”
is it like putting on sheep clothing ? so your god wore a disposable jacket? i guess it is disposable since god can create lots of jackets.
so how do you rejoice? like mary madgalene after she ran away from the tomb?
1 person , 2 natures came down and the same person was KILLED by pagans.
the same person resurrected even though the same person did not resurrect because paradoxically the same person was not killed because the same person was rewarding the same person with eternal life even though the same person already had infinite life.
so you rejoice over the fiction that same person rewarded himself with life and if you don’t believe he will punish you?
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Abeed wrote…
A- “I worship the GOD-MAN the God who became a man”
B- “I do not worship a human-being or a man”
C- “we do not say I worship this part or that part we worship Jesus the GOD-man fully and completely.”
???
Did anyone understand what I just read?
I say: LOL that’s funny coming from a man who believes his God has eternally had a Face, two RIGHT hands, a shin, eyes or an eye etc… and who believes that his gods attributes are neither him or anything but him. LOL Seriously man I can dumb this down for you anymore. You not understanding what Christians believe is still no excuse for you to continually misrepresenting and attacking what we don’t believe.
BTW I noticed you still have failed to answer my questions. Looks like you’re the one who is truly ashamed of his god with all his body parts. So unless you’re going to answer and engage my actual points, instead of beating a straw-man to death, I see no reason to continue on this conversation with you.
Mr Heathcliff demonstrates his utter ignorance when he writes…
“are you ignorant of the fact that “yeshua” and yeshoshua” were common names back in your pagan gods day?… people in palestine would have laughed at you back in jesus’ day.
when people called out to 3rd person “yeho” and combined shua
trust me , they did not think that yhwh would come down and get his ass kicked by pagans . yhwh , in the torah hands defeat to pagans. it is never the other way around .”
My response wow so many errors. First it Yeshua was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (“Yehoshuah” – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. It would be like Mike is to Michael. Second notice its common “among JEWS and in “Later books of the Hebrew Bible” So Yeshua has nothing to do with Pagans or Paganism.
Also I noticed you never gave what you think is the meaning of Yeshua or Yehoshua which means “to deliver, to rescue to save” or since it is combined with part of the divine name “Ya” it means The Lord Rescues…The Lord delivers, The Lord saves me”. So the only person that people would and ARE laughing at is YOU.
You continue on…
“humbled himself” is a lie, you know why?
if god sees past, present and future
hears past , present and future
has control over past present and future
CREATES PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
then there is never a time he becomes FINITE .”
My response: Yah that’s the whole point of HUMBLING HIMSELF. LOL really man do better.
I was going to respond some more but I think that’s it for now. Unless you can answer my question that you ran away from a few days ago, like Abeed here I see no reason to continue on shaming you in your belief in a Man-god.
I will repeat the question… You said that the Quran says that everything will pass away except allahs FACE. Does that mean that allahs two right hands, his shin, his feet etc… will pass away i.e. be destroyed?
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Abeed wrote…
A- “I worship the GOD-MAN the God who became a man”
B- “I do not worship a human-being or a man”
C- “we do not say I worship this part or that part we worship Jesus the GOD-man fully and completely.”
???
Did anyone understand what I just read?
I say: LOL that’s funny coming from a man who believes his God has eternally had a Face, two RIGHT hands, a shin, eyes or an eye etc… and who believes that his gods attributes are neither him or anything but him. LOL Seriously man I can dumb this down for you anymore. You not understanding what Christians believe is still no excuse for you to continually misrepresenting and attacking what we don’t believe.
BTW I noticed you still have failed to answer my questions. Looks like you’re the one who is truly ashamed of his god with all his body parts. So unless you’re going to answer and engage my actual points, instead of beating a straw-man to death, I see no reason to continue on this conversation with you.
Mr Heathcliff demonstrates his utter ignorance when he writes…
“are you ignorant of the fact that “yeshua” and yeshoshua” were common names back in your pagan gods day?… people in palestine would have laughed at you back in jesus’ day.
when people called out to 3rd person “yeho” and combined shua
trust me , they did not think that yhwh would come down and get his ass kicked by pagans . yhwh , in the torah hands defeat to pagans. it is never the other way around .”
My response wow so many errors. First it Yeshua was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (“Yehoshuah” – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. It would be like Mike is to Michael. Second notice its common “among JEWS and in “Later books of the Hebrew Bible” So Yeshua has nothing to do with Pagans or Paganism.
Also I noticed you never gave what you think is the meaning of Yeshua or Yehoshua which means “to deliver, to rescue to save” or since it is combined with part of the divine name “Ya” it means The Lord Rescues…The Lord delivers, The Lord saves me”. So the only person that people would and ARE laughing at is YOU.
You continue on…
“humbled himself” is a lie, you know why?
if god sees past, present and future
hears past , present and future
has control over past present and future
CREATES PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
then there is never a time he becomes FINITE .”
My response: Yah that’s the whole point of HUMBLING HIMSELF. LOL really man do better.
I was going to respond some more but I think that’s it for now. Unless you can answer my question that you ran away from a few days ago, like Abeed here I see no reason to continue on shaming you in your belief in a Man-god.
I will repeat the question… You said that the Quran says that everything will pass away except allahs FACE. Does that mean that allahs two right hands, his shin, his feet etc… will pass away i.e. be destroyed?
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“My response wow so many errors. First it Yeshua was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (“Yehoshuah” – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. It would be like Mike is to Michael. Second notice its common “among JEWS and in “Later books of the Hebrew Bible” So Yeshua has nothing to do with Pagans or Paganism.”
i think you missed my point completely because of your brain stained with man worship.
don’t tell us your “yeshua” we already know
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua
the point was.
no jew, when he said “he saves ”
or “yhwh is a saving cry” would assume that the saving was done through yhwh gettig beaten up and then nailed to 4×4 planks of wood. yhwh does not do his saving through getting killed or killing himself. your religion is very foreign and pagan. it makes no sense.
no jew would have believe that “yeshua” would imply the embodiment of yhwhs salvation in the form of a jew pinned to a cross.
no where in the jewish bible are the words to save, saving, he saves, saviour , salvation implies the pagan crosstian sense i.e to get killed before god saves.
your religion is foreign and pagan.
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You continue on…
“humbled himself” is a lie, you know why?
if god sees past, present and future
hears past , present and future
has control over past present and future
CREATES PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
then there is never a time he becomes FINITE .”
My response: Yah that’s the whole point of HUMBLING HIMSELF. LOL really man do better.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
yah you are a MORON!
ALMIGHTY = God = ULTIMATE being
you want your god to “humble himself” lol
humble
ˈhʌmb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
1.
having or showing a modest or low estimate of one’s importance.
“I felt very humble when meeting her”
synonyms: meek, deferential, respectful, submissive, self-effacing, unassertive, unpresuming; More
2.
of low social, administrative, or political rank.
“she came from a humble, unprivileged background”
synonyms: low-ranking, low, lowly, lower-class, plebeian, proletarian, working-class, undistinguished, poor, mean, ignoble, of low birth, low-born, of low rank; More
verb
1.
cause (someone) to feel less important or proud.
“he was humbled by his many ordeals”
so when a god de-ranks himself
lowers his level
becomes powerless
is man handled
then why call it “almighty” why call it “ultimate one ”
how is it possible that HE who creates PAST,PRESENT and future AND KNOWS PAST , present and future “humbles himself ” ????
he created him humbling himself ???
what is this?
let me step outside of my infinite powers and become subject to my own powers?
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” will repeat the question… You said that the Quran says that everything will pass away except allahs FACE. Does that mean that allahs two right hands, his shin, his feet etc… will pass away i.e. be destroyed?”
face = ALLAH Himself, but man worshipping or creature worshipping pagans like you would not get it.
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Mr H wrote…
yhwh is a saving cry
My response Lol ok then. So are you ever going to answer my question or are you going to continue to run away from the subject and attack straw-men and just make up meanings for Jewish names?
Question again.
If Allahs face is the only thing that will not perish then does that mean allahs hands, feet, etc will be destroyed?
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fully human and fully God.
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lol
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Jesus, that is, is fully human and fully God.
Not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit.
But all three persons of the Trinity exist as ONE GOD.
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3 gods.
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Show me where the bible teaches three gods
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one God.
الله واحد
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3 gods + human nature + emptied god
5 items
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Hi Heathcliff
God raises people from the dead…Jesus was risen
Gal 1:1
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
John 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body
Romans 8:11
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Here we have all three involved in the resurrection.
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what does waahid mean?
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mr.heathcliff
December 15, 2016 • 7:47 pm
3 gods + human nature + emptied god
5 items
I say;
Ken Temple said, God created many human persons hence we could count human persons but he believes God is one.
No. Rev. we can count your 3 persons God just like how we can count 3 persons human, so if a human person is 1 and the second is 2, your human God the Father is 1 and the second God the Son is 2, the Holy Spirit is 3 = 3 Christian Gods.
Rastafarians have similar Gods with Haile Selaissie and Indians have their multiple Gods in Sai Baba and many more. Mormons have their Gods in so many persons.
Ken Temple will not accept these Gods of the Mormons, Rastafarians, Greeks, Romans etc. as Gods because they are idols and polytheistic and Ken Temple God is the same with multiple persons as God.
No where in the Bible can we find “3 persons 1 God” but there are many “God is one” in the Bible.
What a wicked God of Ken Temple who will not be clear like Yahweh saying “God is one”, “I alone is God”; “I am one and only”
Ken Temple.
It is a big lie for God to say ” I alone”, “only I” when there are other 2 persons with him. If Jesus said
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,” (John 17:3).
It is two things Jesus is talking about in this verse and clearly only one is the true God and Jesus is not God but was sent by this God.
Christians like Ken Temple will lie and lie that Jesus on his own will came down to die for their sins but this man Jesus is clear that he was sent by the one creator just like Islam said. This is where the people of the book will be judged of what is revealed therein.
If I were Ken and other Christians, I will use my intellect to convert to Islam and forget about that “experience” or “feelings” of the Holy Ghost and follow the truth. It could be satanic because Idol worshipers have that “experience” and “feelings” too.
Ken, repent and convert to Islam before it is too late.
Ken Temple
December 15, 2016 • 7:36 pm
fully human and fully God.
I say;
Just like Emperor Haile Selassie, Sai Baba and Monkey Gods, cow Gods, elephant Gods. Key you all believe God can become his creature and be God at the same time and is punishable in hell fire. You are not different from them.
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
December 15, 2016 • 7:37 pm
Jesus, that is, is fully human and fully God.
Not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit.
But all three persons of the Trinity exist as ONE GOD
I say;
Like how I, Ken and Ibn Issam all three persons of the humanity exist as ONE HUMANITY.
God is One and is not created many like humans so cannot have Trinitarians 3 persons. If it is personal then God can only be one person not 3 persons because every person whether God or man has attributes the other person do not have.
Trinitarian Father has the attribute of generating the Son and The Son has the attribute of staying in human womb. The Son cannot generate the Father and therefore cannot exist as one God with the Father because he cannot do what the Father can do so he is not the Father and the Father is God so the Son is not God.
Yes, God created so many humans, hence many persons but God is not created so he cannot have any person added to His ONE person.
Thanks
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Ken Temple
God never said He is
3
three
3 persons
man
3 persons 1 God, but
God clearly said He is
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“”I am Yahweh, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18
You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
“”The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
“you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
————–
“I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me” Isaiah 46:9
————–
It will be a lie and satanic for one person(Trinity God) to say the above. How about the other 2 persons? Is He talking for the two persons when He said “I only and alone”? He cannot be alone if there are other two persons sharing the same Godinity with Him and having relation or relationship.
It will be a lie for God or a man to say “I am alone and only me” when there are other persons. Are the persons not persons? and How can he refer to His/his person as the only, alone and one when there are other 2 persons.
Ken, repent today and become a Muslim and forget the “experience” and follow the truth. This is clearly the truth Christian religion is a distorted religion that Jesus brought which worships the same God of Abraham like Muslims, Jews, and Unitarian Christians and anyone who worships only one God and not 2, or more persons God.
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
The 3 is the problem with Trinity and that is why the Quran stressed on the 3 because the Bible with its distortions no where said “3 persons 1 God” and this is supposed to be salvation and the Quran is reminding and warning you to desist, it is better for you.
You turn against the truth and blame the Quran for not understanding Trinity, while the Quran is not defining Trinity but warning you head on from the problem which is the 3 i.e. if three persons are God, obvious anyone of them is God and is 3 Gods and ascribing partners to God and it makes God angry and the punishment for those who follow this is anger of God.
——————-
Quran Surah An-Nisa
4:171
Sahih International
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
—————–
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
Christians will say Jesus said
-“I am” while on earth and the Jews pick stones to throw at him
-Thomas said “My God, My Lord”
means Jesus claim he is God on earth. So Jesus claimed he is God while on earth.
THEN
Why is Jesus claiming another God who sent him and Jesus is not that God? but that God is the only true God.
So, it means Jesus is not God or we have 2 Gods the one who sent Jesus and Jesus himself as 2 Gods.
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,” (John 17:3).
Thanks.
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Because that is the Father; the one who sent Him. But there is only One God, not 2 or 3. Only One God. الله واحد
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Because there is only one God; the doctrine says the Father and the Holy Spirit are not 2 other gods, But that the One God in substance ذات ، جوهر exists in three persons. Trinitas Unitas and Unitas Trinitas. 3 in 1 and 1 in 3. “person” points to spiritual relationship and communication. The Father loves the Son and sends the Son; the Spirit testifies to the Son, the Son prays to the Father, etc.
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So if this jesus “person” was really one God in substance why was he hungry and need food? Do you realize how ludicrous your argument is?
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Because He was also fully human. The Christian doctrine has ALWAYS been that Jesus is one person with 2 natures; 100 % God and 100 % human.
Hebrews 2:14-18
14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels [fallen angels cannot be redeemed], but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
[true believers by faith, Genesis 15:6; Galatians 3:6-9; 14; 29]
17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation (satisfaction of justice and the wrath of God) for the sins of the people.
18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15-16
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
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If jesus was fully human it means jesus can not be the same substance with God. Why do you worship human?
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Hey Eric
Did Jesus say he pre-existed with the Father in John 17?
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No. Read the whole chapter, even if for argument sake I trust john gospel, it is not meant to understood literally. Jesus glory was given by his God in turn he gave this glory to all who believe in him so they are ONE. Does that make all of us gods?
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Well said
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He became human for 33 years; and after the resurrection is exalted in power, ascended to the right hand of the Father, prays and intercedes for us; and has a glorified human body.
Beyond all these things; there is mystery as to “how”. Bela Keif بلا کیف
“without knowing or asking “how?”
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“Because He was also fully human. The Christian doctrine has ALWAYS been that Jesus is one person with 2 natures; 100 % God and 100 % human.”
look at what you said in schematic form
1 PERSON , 2 natures
1 person WITH divine nature + human nature
you increased god and changed him
now the simple question is, who is experiencing the human feelings?
you can’t have
1 person – divine nature + human nature
you would make god 100 % human being.
you believe that your 1 person with divine nature fully experienced being a human through his divine nature i.e, god with divine powers felt hungry, thirsty, sleepy etc etc
otherwise, your god would say “i am hungry”
while the SAME person would say “i never eat”
you then have a SEPARATION of persons
separation of natures.
so agree here that when god says ” i am hungry” the divine person SIMULTANEOUSLY says “i am hungry”
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“So if this jesus “person” was really one God in substance why was he hungry and need food? Do you realize how ludicrous your argument is?”
he was hungry and needed food because the 1 PERSON , 2 natures HUNGERED
the same person with two natures hungered SIMULTANEOUSLY
the fully god + fully man hungered
no separation. no division. no gap. unity. united.
otherwise you have the following absurdity
1 person – divine powers + human nature
does this make any sense ?
so they must admit that when “1 person” or “fully god”
says,
“i am hungry”
then it cannot be that the SAME person @ the same time is saying ” i never eat”
lol, that would be SEPARATION of persons .
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“and has a glorified human body.”
What about his human soul? His human nature?
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He is still fully human (soul and nature and body); but in a glorified and perfect state, without limitations.
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“What about his human soul? His human nature?”
kind of strange if you think about it.
invisible god becomes invisible human soul + visible flesh.
christians have each of these invisible items going on vacation every time the SAME person in the flesh does something like a finite human.
what does god do with the human soul while the same person is sleeping?
tiddlywinks?
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bela keif بلا کیف = “without knowing or asking “how?”.
God knows and that is enough. That we cannot plumb the depths of the Almighty is actually a comfort that we cannot figure everything out and it actually demonstrates the truth is on our side of these issues.
“Can you discover the depths of God?
Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?
Job 11:7
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?
35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again?
36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
Romans 11:33-36
Psalm 145:3
“Great is the LORD and greatly to be praised; His greatness is unsearchable.”
= “His nature and substance and awesomeness and majesty is unsearchable.”
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“Because that is the Father; the one who sent Him. But there is only One God, not 2 or 3. Only One God. الله واحد”
? father uses the same divine nature to send his son and the son uses the same divine nature to get sent through the father
they are using “one nature” or “one god” to be sender and sent?
man, how does that work?
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“He is still fully human (soul and nature and body); but in a glorified and perfect state, without limitations.”
this is no longer an incarnation ? is it a completely separate human being ?
“glorified and perfect state”
finite god in “glorified and perfect state”
?
does this “glorified and perfect state” person exist as fully god person and is now in permanent state as an incarnation with other persons in trinity ???
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“God knows and that is enough. That we cannot plumb the depths of the Almighty is actually a comfort that we cannot figure everything out and it actually demonstrates the truth is on our side of these issues.”
you strip god to make him like you.
then you say “without how”
you plug in deficiency within god
then you say “without how”
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you strip god to make him like you.
No; because no human being could come up with these mysterious truths that confound your mind. It is God’s revelation of Himself; not man seeking to understand God or make God more understandable.
See here:
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/man-made-religion-tries-to-make-god-more-understandable/
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Ken Temple
“He is still fully human (soul and nature and body); but in a glorified and perfect state, without limitations.”
What about the human microbiome, the full array of microorganisms (the microbiota) that live on and in humans and, more specifically, the collection of microbial genomes that contribute to the broader genetic portrait, or metagenome, of a human.
Estimated 1000 different species, do you worship them too?
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the glorified state overcomes all that.
I Corinthians 15:44 – “a body that is spiritualized” and glorified , I Cor. 15:46, 53-55; Philippians 3:21
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christian thinking is so pathetic that one can say
“god became blind without how”
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But we never have said “God became blind”; so your point is goofy.
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“the glorified state overcomes all that.” How do you know? I bet you never thought about it.
You claim Jesus is still fully human. Without human microbiome you are not fully human. They are integral part of human nature.
Answer my question: Do you worship Jesus microbiota too?
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“imperishable”, “incorruptible” – I Corinthians 15:42-58 – all corruption and weakness to decay is gone – death is overcome – there are no microbes or environment of microbiome.
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Then your claim fully human is false
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“But we never have said “God became blind”; so your point is goofy.”
does it matter what you believe? since you already added weakness in god, you can strip him of his omniscience too and say “without asking how”
don’t call things “goofy” if you don’t understand the point. it doesn’t matter what you believe. what you believe can open the avenue to god becoming DEAF and blind.
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“No; because no human being could come up with these mysterious truths that confound your mind. It is God’s revelation of Himself; not man seeking to understand God or make God more understandable.”
the pagan religions inspired your religion.
how many gods took on human form to connect with the people?
quote:
In response, an anonymous poet wrote a hymn celebrating the actions and character of Demetrius, associating him with the great goddess of Greece, Demeter. Here is an extract of his hymn:
The greatest among the gods have drawn close to our city…
Both Demeter and Demetrius…
Hail to you, O Son of the mighty god Poseidon and of Aphrodite.
The other gods dwell so far away,
or else they have no ears,
or they do not exist, or do not care at all about us
We see you in our midst,
not a wooden or stone presence, but bodily
And so we pray to you… bring about peace
for you are the Lord (κύριος)
Notice what is said of Demetrius. He is one of the “greatest gods,” the son of God” (specifically of the gods Poseidon and Aphrodite), one who is “near” his own people – not remote, off on Mount Olympus, the one who “brings peace,” who can be called “Lord.”
These ascriptions to Demetrius should sound familiar to anyone who knows about early Christianity, where Jesus too was known as the incarnation of a divine being, the Son of God, the bringer of peace, the Lord, and God in the flesh. My ultimate point: Jesus was not the first to be called such things, or thought to be a kind of incarnation of the divine. He had predecessors.
+ The gods in Greek and Roman thought were considered to be superhuman. Unlike, say, the (animal-shaped) gods of Egypt, the Greek and Roman gods were literally in human form. When they appeared here on earth to humans they were often “bigger than life,” but they could assume regular human form when they wanted to and they were human-shaped even when attending to their heavenly duties. In the Greek and Roman myths, they acted in human ways, they experienced the range of human emotions, they manifested human foibles, and so on.
:::::::::::
Jeremiah 2:5New International Version (NIV)
5 This is what the Lord says:
“What fault did your ancestors find in me,
that they strayed so far from me?
They followed worthless idols
and became worthless themselves.
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“Here we have all three involved in the resurrection.”
The synoptics say Jesus will “be raised to life,” not that he raises himself. There is also a passage that says: Mark 14:58 “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands.’” But that is some mixed up testimony during Jesus’s trail.
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Hi Heathcliff
Read the verses properly verse 57 says…And there arose certain, and bare false witness saying…
John is quoting Jesus you are not reading everything about Jesus and who he said was.
We agree that God is the only one that can send prophets to preach to the people yes or no?
Well read Matthew 23:34.
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
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whats your point ?
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57 Some stood up and gave false testimony against him, saying, 58 “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’” 59 But even on this point their testimony did not agree.
meaning they were making up stories and there is not even one hint that jesus thought he along with the other two will raise himself to life .
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Hi Heathcliff
They lied in regards to what Jesus had said earlier you can personally believe what you want.
If what you believe was so true you wouldnt be wasting so much time trying to prove that Christianity is false.
Jesus is coming to judge a Christ rejecting world.
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“Jesus is coming to judge a Christ rejecting world.”
jesus from the new testament thought this too. he thought doom was soon to come in his life time and he thought he would be enthroned along side his disciples.
i predict you would taste death and never see your man god. if i were you repent and reject worshipping humans otherwise you would be judged by the JUDGE of jesus.
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The point I am making to you is where does get the authority to do what God does unless of course he is God revealed in the flesh.
You obviously dont understand what you are reading you are just as confused as your prophet was an illiterate one at that.
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“We agree that God is the only one that can send prophets to preach to the people yes or no?”
so you want god to send himself and send prophets. who sends your god? god?
how many senders? 2 ?
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“The point I am making to you is where does get the authority to do what God does unless of course he is God revealed in the flesh.”
god doesn’t get authority from anyone , he is the final, the ultimate and nothing above him.
your god had a leader, authority and commander . your god had someone above him. repent , repent and turn from your sin until it is too late.
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Repent and follow Muhamnad lol
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there were hanifs who were not man worshippers like you even in the time of the Quran.
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@defend: Why do you want to worship a God that Jesus didn’t worship? and if you still want to disobey Jesus and worship a that he didn’t worship, why do you stop at 3. You can find as many God ( or person hood of God) as you feel comfortable? As Bart Ehrman wrote [guess it was his book, read long time ago, so don’t know for sure] in one of his books, there were Christians who worshiped 7 gods, one for each day of week, 12, one for each month, 360 , one for each day of year, 30 one for each day of the month etc.
Just think about it! If you really want to follow Jesus , then you must worship the God he worshiped. And practically you can only do that when you obey Mohammed who came to restore religion if Jesus.
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Whats your Gods name?
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@defend: quote //Whats your Gods name? //
I worship the God of Jesus. Jesus worshiped elohim, eli, eloi, Elah, Alah, father, el shaddai, adonai. Jesus never ever worshipped “the son” or the “holy ghost” which trinitarians do. So you ( and trinitarians) are not upon religion of Jesus, we Muslims are.
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Ken Temple says “there are no microbes or environment of micro biome.”
“It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
…. he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43and he took it and ate it in their presence.” Luke 24
In order to eat he needs a functioning human microbiome.
Do you worship you God’s microbiota? (Glorified or otherwise)
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What part of English words, “incorruptible” and “imperishable” and “immortal” do you not understand?
I Corinthians 15:42-58
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“What part of English words, “incorruptible” and “imperishable” and “immortal” do you not understand?”
who is this? “god-man”
?
god exists currently as
father, “god-man” and ghost?
yes?
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make note of your words
you have god existing already as
“incorruptible”
“imperishable”
and “immortal”
but then you have your SAME god BECOMING
“incorruptible”
“imperishable”
and “immortal”
make note of these words.
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Temple, that’s lame, but what one would expect from a evangelical bible thumping fanatic.
To be fully human means to possess the full array of microorganisms (the microbiota) that live on and in humans and the collection of microbial genomes that contribute to the broader genetic portrait, or metagenome, or human nature of a human.
When your God assumed a human nature he also assumed the natures of an estimated 1000 additional species.
Tough but true.
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Father, glorified Son, and Holy Spirit
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make note of your words
you have god existing already as
“incorruptible”
“imperishable”
and “immortal”
but then you have your SAME god BECOMING
“incorruptible”
“imperishable”
and “immortal”
make note of these words.
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it is not too late ken, just become a pagan polytheist.
your religion is loaded with polytheistic ideas.
you pay lip service to “one nature” but then stick between polytheism and “one nature”
whatever that means
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that is why there is a 33 year window of time where the eternal Son became a human on earth, subject to corruption, but after the resurrection, glorified and incorruptible.
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that’s what i am saying .
note your words carefully
you have god existing already as
“incorruptible”
“imperishable”
and “immortal”
but then you have your SAME god BECOMING
“incorruptible”
“imperishable”
and “immortal”
make note of these words.
just to add what you said
“god became perishable , mortal and corruptible”
make careful note of your words.
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Ken Temple
You said;
that is why there is a 33 year window of time where the eternal Son became a human on earth, subject to corruption, but after the resurrection, glorified and incorruptible.
I say;
God is not bound with time and to say God became man for 33 years is punishable in hell fire just like Rastafarians who think Haile Selaissie is on earth for some years. This is the Greeko/Roman concept of God where the god will come down and love them.
We have such creature gods like yours in India as cow-Gods, defecating on the streets of India. We have those Gods like yours who came down as monkey-Gods, idol voodoo Gods being worshiped.
Why will God say this if he will come on earth?
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
We knew Jesus said this
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,” (John 17:3).
Jesus said the only true God is someone else and not him(Jesus). That person who is God said He is alone, only and one and nothing else and no other.
If a person is other or something else, then there cannot be other persons when one person is claiming to be God.
Is it he become human or he created a human and added that human to himself?
It looks like God did not became man but He created a man and appended that man to Himself as a human appendix, hence the 100% man.
To claim God added an appendix to him is a sin punishable by fire. Becoming man means God is no more God. Appending a created man to Himself is appendix and those who think that way will be punished in hell fire because God will not need appendix to executed his will.
Thanks.
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“God is not bound with time” – we agree with that, as the Father nor the Holy Spirit became flesh; only the 2nd person of the Trinity, the Son.
If you agree that John 17:3 is the historical words of Jesus, why not John 17:1-2 (Jesus prays to the Father while on earth) and 17:5 – 17:5 is clearly about His pre-existence with the Father before creation, in eternity, with John 1:1-5 and 1:14.
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Ken Temple
December 16, 2016 • 7:19 pm
“God is not bound with time” – we agree with that, as the Father nor the Holy Spirit became flesh; only the 2nd person of the Trinity, the Son
I say;
Oh my dear Reverend. So the Son is not God? You worship the Son as God and God is not bound with time but the Son is bound with time. It means the Son that you worship is not God because you admit only him among the gods that you have is bound with time.
If we agree God is not bound with time and the second person you agreed is bound with time, it means the second person Son(Jesus) that you worship is not God.
If you put you “experience” and “feelings” aside and follow the truth that your second person Jesus you worship is bound with time and God is not bound with time and so Jesus is not God and want to say the Shahada and become a Muslim.
I will like to be the one to give you Shahada.
Thanks.
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“I dont know if you are purposely acting like you dont understand what Christians are actually saying or you are really uneducated in theology.
Maybe its because with your imagination as Muslim there is no room for actually understanding your own god muchless someone else’s god.
Many Muslims say Allah is one and I say one what? There is no connection between mankind and Allah.
So Heathcliff Allah is one right? One what? Your answer to the tough questions is to not have an answer.”
i know your pagan religious beliefs better than you ; it is for this reason i know you worship a polytheistic god.
you said “one what” ?
in hebrew thought, when the jews worshipped yhwh as a “he” did they ask your DUMB question
“one what” ?
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,
did they ask your DUMB question “one what” or are you asking your lord
“yeah lord, but how many consciousnesses are you?”
“yeah lord, are those other gods one what and 8 persons?”
God is one conscious being who is ALL seeing, ALL hearing and ALL knowing and has POWER over everything
He is simultaneously ALL SEEING, ALL hearing and ALL KNOWING and has power over everything
These powers are not SEPARATE from Him.
my God is not BEINGLESS
He is fully conscious being . He is single DIVINE being , one CONSCIOUS divine being
on the other hand you worship 3 conscious gods each separate and distinct from each other.
i understand your pagan beliefs very well.
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Mr Heathcliff
I’m talking from your perspective as Allah not being like anything common to us otherwise you would be able to explain a bit more about your god but you can’t.
So you guys spend untold amount of time trying to disprove another persons God as false and after a thousand years you still can’t do it.
What exactly do you pray five times a day? Are you any nearer to Allah and how exactly is close to you?
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“What exactly do you pray five times a day?”
because we are told to do so by God himself
”
Are you any nearer to Allah and how exactly is close to you?”
we’ll find out exactly on d.o.j
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“So you guys spend untold amount of time trying to disprove another persons God as false and after a thousand years you still can’t do it.”
so what about all christian like jay smith, beth grove and other pagans in hyde park? what do they try to prove and what have their forefathers failed to prove for a thousand years?
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“My response wow, so allahs two right hands will perish, his shin will perish, his eye or eyes will parish? BTW does allah have a soul but its not like our soul?”
who is parish?
so in your pagan mind, shin, eyes, face have to be taken literally ? you have to see a bodied god? there is no other interpretation?
on the other hand, in your pagan religion, you have a god being fathered/parented and @ the same time a father
now how does a god get parented?
you also have a god which incarnates and becomes something other than what it was before.
why is the incarnation literal but the parenting bit non-literal?
the fathering non-literal?
what about the father in the old testament ?
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwih4vOc6vvQAhWDaRQKHaXlC2QQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%2Fabout%2FThe_God_of_Old.html%3Fid%3DcUJUwIDHzPwC%26source%3Dkp_cover&psig=AFQjCNEPpygSLw4iUBiPlxT_v0iJCc2MuQ&ust=1482084789466150
he sounds like he always existed as a dad.
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quote:
Mr wrote…
“so what is “man-god” currently doing in trinity? is he fully conscious of what the father knows? ”
My response: I don’t know since I don’t believe in a man-god, you might want to ask your Imam about that since allah truelly is a MAN-god lol
end quote
but hold on, according to ken temple, the “man-god” became incorruptible, imperishable at his “resurrection” and eat fish which was probably hanging out from the gap in man-god’s side.
so you have man-fish-god currently coexisting with the other 2 persons.
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