In the four Gospels version of the crucifixion i.e., Matthew, Mark Luke and John, all four of them say that Jesus was nailed to a cross. But when we read the Acts of the Apostles it somehow says something completely different. According to Peter’s saying recorded by Luke in Acts, Jesus was “hanged.” On one hand we have Luke recording Peter’s speech that Jesus was “hanged”. On the other hand in the ‘Gospel of Luke’ he himself says: Jesus was “crucified” with nails going through. Do the words “Hanged” and “Crucified” have the same meanings in the Greek language? Well we have to analyse the evidence and see if “hanged” (suspended) or crucified have the same meanings. This is the verse we will examine:
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 5:30 ὁ θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἤγειρεν Ἰησοῦν ὃν ὑμεῖς διεχειρίσασθε κρεμάσαντες ἐπὶ ξύλου (Textus receptus).
We see from Peter’s version that Jesus was hanged. The Greek word that is used for Acts 5:30 for “Hanging” is κρεμάννυμι (kremannymi). Interestingly, in none of the Gospels is the word “kremannymi” for Jesus’s crucifixion used. Before going further on Acts 5:30, let’s show the four Gospels accounts i.e what words they have used for the “crucifixion.”
Matthew 27:35 σταυρόω stauroō
Mark 15:24 σταυρόω stauroō
Luke 23:33 σταυρόω stauroō
John 19:18 σταυρόω stauroō
In all above four Gospels accounts we see the Greek word that is used is “Stauroo” which means “Crucified” with nails through. But in Peter’s account, that is recorded by Luke in Acts, the word that is used as I showed earlier is “kremannymi” which means “hanged.” One thing to note, the Greek word “Stauroo,” in no Lexicon does it mean “hanging”. Let us take a closer look at the Greek word “kremannymi” and see what have Lexicons/Dictionaries have to say about it.
Greek word ‘kremannymi’ – Greek-English Lexicons
1. Bernard Alwyn Taylor – Analytical Lexicon to the Septuagint:
“…A: to hang up []; id […]; id. […] to hang: to hang (up) on … to be hung up, to be SUSPENDED on (of things) …; to be hanged (ofpers. ; to be IN SUSPENSE…” [1]
2. James Strong – A Concise Dictionary of the words in the Greek Testament
“Kremannumi Krem-an’-noo-mee: a prolonged form of a primary verb; to hang:–hang.” [2]
3. Liddell and Scott’s – An Intermediate Greek English Lexicon:
“…opt. … : impf. … (From root KPEM): I. to hang, hang up, II.; … will bring them to the temple and hang them up there, II. ; … to hang one up by a thing, Ar,; … in allusion to Socrates in his basket, Id. ; – to HANG UP ONE’S SHIELD, i.e. have done with war, Id. : – so in Med., to hang up one’s rudder, i.e., give up the sea, Hes. II Pass. to be HUNG UP SUSPENDED, … 2 (impf.) when thou art were hanging, II. to be hung up as a votive offering, Pind., Hdt. ; … Ar. : metaph., … hagns over him, Pind. ; … depending on the body, Xen. 2. to be hung, persons, Eur. 3. Metaph. to be hung in suspense, Arist. Hence … aor. 1 part. act. and pass. … (…) hung, hung up, hanging, kp. … hung by the neck.” [3]
4. Abbott Smith – George A Manuel Greek Lexicon of the New Testament:
“(also … ; the pres. is not found in NT), [in LXX (where also … JB 26:7) chiefly for … ; ) trans., to HANG SUSPEND: acc. pers., seq. … Ac 5:39, 10:39; pass., Lk 23:39; seq. …, Mt 18:4. Mid., … intrans., to hang: seq. … Act 28:4; …, Ga 3:13 (LXX); …” [4]
5. Robson, Edward, Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament:
“κρεμάσαντες, f. …, aor. 1. pass. … to hang to SUSPEND. trans. Mid. … after the form …, to hang to be SUSPENDED, intrans. A presnt … is found only in very late writers Passow sub v. Buttm. 114.
a) Act. c. acc. impl. et seq. ini c. geb. Acts 5:30 et 10:39 … (…) Pass. se. … Matt 18:6. absol. Luke 23:39. Sept. seq. for … Act. Gen. 40:19, 22. Pass. Esth. 5:14. 7:10. – Xen. An. 1. 2. 8. Pass. Xen. Eq. 10. 9.” [5]
6. Alexander Souter – A Pocket Lexicon to the Greek New testament
“κρεμάσαντες (pendo), I hang, I suspend; mid. (pendeo) I am hanging, I hang” [6]
7. Samuel Bagster’s. The Analytical Greek Lexicon: Consisting of An Alphabetical Arrangement of every occurring Inflexion of every word contained in the New testament Scriptures:
[7]
8. John Pickering – A Greek and English Lexicon
[8]
9. Schrevel Cornelis – The Greek Lexicon of Schrevelius
[9]
10. Charles Robson – A Greek Lexicon to the New Testament”
“προσπήγνυμι f. Aor. 1 pass., to hang, suspend trans,; mid… (after the form ), to HANG SUSPENDED, intrans a) act,. With acc. Impl., and foll by with gen. Acts 5:30 προσπήγνυμι… : pass., foll by eis Matt 18:6 absol. Luke 23.39. b) mid Acts 28:4.” [10]
11. John Jones – The Tyro’s Greek and English Lexicon
“KPEMA, f… I cause to hang, suspend ii.. 19. Acts 5:30 f… aor. I suspend myself, am suspended, I hang, Acts 28:4.— depend ,Mat. 22. 4. Thou hast suspended, didst hang ii… I hang over a precipice, suspend…” [11]
12. Samuel C. Loveland – A Greek Lexicon: Adapted to the New Testament
“κρεμάσαντες to hang, to suspend; to be contained.” [12]
John J. Owen – The Acts of the Apostles, in the original Greek
“κρεμάσαντες 1. Aor. Pass. to hang, suspend; mid to hang, to be suspended.” [13]
W. J. Hickie Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament. After The Latest and Best Authorities
“κρεμάσαντες to hang up, to suspend, Matt. Xviii. 6. Acts, V. 30 x.39; mid., to hang Acts, xxviii. 4. Gal. Iii. 13; with to depend upon Matt. Xxii, 40. (‘All the Law and the Prophets, i.e the teaching of the OT on morality, is summoned up in these precepts,’ Thayer.)” [14]
Reading all the ABOVE Greek-English Lexicons it is clear that Acts 5:30 means “hanging suspended.” Notice how all of theY agree that the Greek word “kremannymi” means “hanging suspended.” Now, if Jesus was hanged suspended and the Gospels say he was crucified with nails going through, isn’t this a major contradiction? One place it says he was “hanged suspended” but on the other hand the Gospels say he was “crucified?” Let’s now show a crucified portrayal of Jesus depicted by Christians for centuries:
Depiction of Jesus’s Crucifixion
As you see the picture it is quite clear that Acts 5:30 and the 4 Gospels account of the Crucifixion contradict each other. As I have demonstrated, the way Jesus was crucified in no way could mean that he was “hanging suspended.” The above picture shows that the person who is nailed is FIXED. For it to be Hanging it has to have some part left without any support.
How do we know that Jesus was hanged and not crucified? Well Acts 2:23 lays the evidence out for us. Even though majority of trinitarian Bible translations have translated the Greek word “προσπήγνυμι” (prospēgnym) as “crucified”, this in fact is misleading. If Peter wanted to say that Jesus was “crucified” he wouldn’t have used the word “prospēgnym”, instead he would have used “stauroo” which is the most frequent word used in the NT for someone who is crucified. The Greek word “prospēgnym” the meaning of it according to Scholars of the Greek language is someone who is ‘hanging suspended’ without “nails.” Dr. Jeffrey Paul Garcia comment on Acts 2:23,
“The assumption that nailing was the primary method of crucifixion has unduly influenced the translation of several passages. Peter’s speech after Pentecost references Jesus crucifixion: “This man [Jesus], delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of Go, you fastened [προσπήγνυμι] to a cross” (Acts 2:23, emphasis added). This is the only time the verb προσπήγνυμι (“to fasten” or “affix”; BDAG, 725) is used in the New Testament, and it is an unusual terminology. It should be translated “to affix” or “to fasten to” (Fitzmyer 1998,255), but without the implication of nails. Yet several English translations still render this verb “to nail” (see TNIV, NIV, NASB, NET, NCV).” [15]
Notice, he makes it clear that Acts 2:23 means hanging “without the implication of nails.” Here we have evidence that the NT cannot agree on how Jesus was “killed”.
Since this is the case, how can we take the accounts of the Bible as evidence of Jesus life when the same people who somehow were disciples can’t agree how Jesus died? According to Acts 5:30, from says that Jesus died while ‘Hanging’ (suspended) without any nails. While on the other hand we have Matthew, Mark, Luke and John who say that Jesus got “crucified” with ‘nails’ going through. Which account of Jesus crucifixion is true?
We conclude that the Bible cannot be a reliable source for Jesus’s life. Was Jesus killed “hanging suspended” or with nails fixed to the cross?
We can see that the people who somehow knew Jesus in real life can’t agree on how Jesus died. Crucifixion which is the major Pinnacle of Christianity, yet the people who knew Jesus, walked with him, eat with him (according to Christians) can’t agree how Jesus died? If there is no crucifixion, there is no Christianity. How can we take the Bible as a source of guidance and salvation when there are major contradictions?
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Related articles:
(1) – “How Were People Before Crucifixion Saved?”
(2) – “Examining the Engineering behind Jesus’ (p) title as ‘Lamb of God’”
(3) – “Examining Jewish Sources On Jesus Crucifixion, Genuine Or Forgery?”
(4) – “Does Christianity really necessitate ransom for salvation?”
(5) – “Did earliest Christians believe (alleged) crucifixion to be indispensible?”
(6) – “Examining Pagan Sources On Jesus Crucifixion, Genuine or Hearsay?”
References:
[1] Bernard Alwyn Taylor Analytical Lexicon to the Septuagint page 340
[2] James strong. A Concise Dictionary of the words in the Greek Testament
[3] Liddell and Scot’s. An Intermediate Greek English Lexicon 1882 page 449
[4] Abbott Smith, George A Manuel Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (1922) page. 257
[5] Robinson, Edward, Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament (1836) Page 489
[6] Alexander Souter. A Pocket Lexicon to the Greek New testament (1917) Page 139
[7] Samuel Bagster’s. The Analytical Greek Lexicon: Consisting of An Alphabitical Arangement of every occurring Inflexion of every word contained in the New testament Scriptures. Page 240
[8] John Pickering, A Greek AND English Lexicon page 521
[9] Schrevel Cornelis The Greek Lexicon of Schrevelius(1826) page 510
[10] Charles Robson A Greek Lexicon to the New Testament (1836) Page 249
[11] John Jones, The Tyro’s Greek and English Lexicon (1825) page 426
[12] Samuel C. Loveland A Greek Lexicon:Adaptedto the New Testament (1828) Page 186
[13] John J. Owen The Acts of the Apostles, in the original Greek. Page 212
[14] W. J Hickie Greek-English Lexicon to the New testament. After The Latest and Best Authorities (1911) Page 108
[15] (editors) Paul N. Anderson, Felix Just, Tom Thatcher John, ‘Jesus, and History’, by Jeffrey Paul Garcia, volume 2, page 328
This article was originally published here: discover-the-truth.com
Categories: Christianity
Blogging Theology 
The New Testament is not eyewitnesses’ observation but a record of various oral traditions of the time of the unknown writers. Hence we find contradictory accounts about Jesus in the New Testament.
It is a fact that the writers sometimes cherry-picked from the then circulating oral tradition. For instance, there was a tradition in the first century that Jesus was not crucified – they completely left this out.
Also, these writers are known to have heavily edited both their written and oral sources which is demonstrable from Matthew’s and Luke’s use of Mark. John’s Gospel is recognised as non-histirical by many Bible scholars.
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OOPS!
“And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they CRUCIFIED (estaurosan) him, AND THE MALEFACTORS, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, 37 and saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself. And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. And one of the malefactors WHICH WERE HANGED (kremasthenton) railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.” Luke 23:32-39
Here we see that both stauroo and kremannymi are used interchangeable to refer to the act of hanging or suspending someone on the cross via crucifixion.This is why I said this guy is a joke who makes his profit look intelligent and honest.
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This is what happens when you pervert the Scriptures to your sham and humiliation:
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs 30:5-6
You do make your profit and the spirit that possessed him proud!
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” John 8:44
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“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar, and the father of it” (John 8:44)
versus
“And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God” (Luke 4:41).
Jesus refuted his own divinity, unless some devils are more honest than “the devil.”
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Shamoun, you have a lot growing up to do. You can’t help yourself but mock. Just shows how weak your faith is, to indulge in these cheap attacks.
I don’t see how you have “refuted” the evidence presented . So we have word used for Jesus and a different one used for the other two according to Luke. NOW if the same two word was used exclusively for Jesus alone in that Luke passage, then you may have a case.
A simple response to your claims would be, that Jesus and the other two had completely different punishments handed to them according to Luke. While one was hanged the other was crucified. Any light-minded person would see through your weak attempt to disregard this article’s overwhelming evidences presented .
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Here we see that both stauroo and kremannymi are used interchangeable to refer to the act of hanging or suspending someone on the cross via crucifixion.
Yes; the whole article by Kaleef Kareem (Flying Pir) is refuted in this one sentence.
When you stick to content and reason and argumentation (and not ad homimen or anger or name calling), Sam, your material is good.
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I’m glad you have the guts to rebuke Sam. Most Christians do not – to their shame.
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Since Ken is my brother in Christ, he has every right to rebuke me which gladly accept, even though I don’t agree with him that it is not biblical to rebuke and shame persistent blasphemers who pervert God’s Word to their shame and humiliaiton.
With that said, are you now going to rebuke your ikhwaan for all the filth and vitriol which they spew against all the Christians that challenge them here? And are you going to rebuke ibn muta for producing such a disgraceful sham piece?
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“Since Ken is my brother in Christ, he has every right to rebuke me which gladly accept”
What If I told you that Ken approves dr. White in his dialogue with Dr Qadhi?
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Sam, you accepted Ken;s rebuke but have you accepted James White’s rebuke? What you do is take attention away from the post with your abuse. Calm down and try to converse with Karim.
In case you forgot:
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YahySlime, has White accepted my scathing rebuke of him which I know you are fully aware of since like a stalker you are always stalking our posts in order to find dirt to hulr at your vile immoral profit and his god? 😉
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Sam you really do have a dirty unclean heart.
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you of all people would know since how nasty and vile you really are, especially against Evangelicals. Now when are you going to condemn your profit to hell seeing how evil and unclean his heart was, i.e., murdering people, having married women raped and sold off as chattel, sleeping with a premature minor and sanctioning it for others in his Quran, abolishing adoption in order to save face for stealing his son’s wife, prostituting women in the name of temporary marriages, a practice which your Shiite brothers and sisters still observe?
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Like i said before, i have not seen Sam comment without mentioning Muhammad(pbuh) in it, even if it is completely unrelated to him. I think he secretly admires him. Waiting for your shahada sam 😉
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Sam I was referring to YOUR dirty, unclean heart. Don’t change the subject. You cannot run away from yourself.
Remember your Christian elders like James White and Ken Temple have both called you out for your ungodly behaviour.
Repent and get help!
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Come on sam.. declare your shahada .. embrace Islam..bring the love of Jesus with you..only worship his creator and be saved 🙂
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Enjoy!
A Contradiction Regarding the Mode of Jesus’ death?
Only in the Warped Mind of a Dawagandist!
This will be a short response to the following desperate polemics.
A Muhammadan dawagandist claims that there is a contradiction in the inspired Christian Scriptures since certain verses in the Gospels employ the Greek term stauroo to highlight the fact that the Lord Jesus died by crucifixion, having been nailed to a cross (cf. Matthew 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:33; John 19:18), whereas other texts claim that Christ was put to death by hanging, specifically by being hung on a tree:
“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged (kremasantes) on a tree.” Acts 5:30
This isn’t the only time that Luke speaks of Jesus hanging on a tree:
“And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged (kremasantes) on a tree:” Acts 10:39
The specific Greek word that these verses use for hanging is kremannymi, not stauroo.
If the Muhammadan was truly honest he would have found the answer to this so-called error by the very same inspired writer of Acts that he quotes from:
“And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they CRUCIFIED (estaurosan) him, AND THE MALEFACTORS, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, 37 and saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself. And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. And one of the malefactors WHICH WERE HANGED (kremasthenton) railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.” Luke 23:32-39
Luke employs stauroo and kremannymi within the same context to describe the act of hanging or suspending someone on the cross via crucifixion.
This in turn refutes the following assertion made by this taqiyyist:
Interestingly, in NONE OF THE GOSPELS is the word “kremannymi” for Jesus’s crucifixion used. Before going further on Acts 5:30, let’s show the four Gospels accounts i.e what words they have used for the “crucifixion.” (Bold, capital and italicized emphasis ours)
The very fact that Luke uses kremannymi in the very context where he mentions Jesus being crucified alongside two malefactors shows that he basically understood this word to be synonymous with stauroo.
With that said, pay attention to what God’s inspired Word teaches concerning the fate of those who try to pervert the God-breathed Scriptures:
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs 30:5-6
Luke wasn’t the only inspired author to employ these words interchangeably:
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified (estauromenos) among you?… For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth (kremamenos)on a tree: that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Galatians 3:1, 10-14
What makes this rather ironic is that it is the taqiyyist who actually contradicts and refutes himself. Note what he says:
How do we know that Jesus was hanged and not crucified? Well Acts 2:23 lays the evidence out for us. Even though majority of trinitarian Bible translations have translated the Greek word “προσπήγνυμι” (prospēgnym) as “crucified”, this in fact is misleading. If Peter wanted to say that Jesus was “crucified” he wouldn’t have used the word “prospēgnym”, instead he would have used “stauroo” which is the most frequent word used in the NT for someone who is crucified. The Greek word “prospēgnym” the meaning of it according to Scholars of the Greek language is someone who is ‘hanging suspended’ without “nails.” Dr. Jeffrey Paul Garcia comment on Acts 2:23,
“The assumption that nailing was the primary method of crucifixion has unduly influenced the translation of several passages. Peter’s speech after Pentecost references Jesus crucifixion: “This man [Jesus], delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of Go, you fastened [προσπήγνυμι] to a cross” (Acts 2:23, emphasis added). This is the only time the verb προσπήγνυμι (“to fasten” or “affix”; BDAG, 725) is used in the New Testament, and it is an unusual terminology. It should be translated “to affix” or “to fasten to” (Fitzmyer 1998,255), but without the implication of nails. Yet several English translations still render this verb “to nail” (see TNIV, NIV, NASB, NET, NCV).” [15]
Notice, he makes it clear that Acts 2:23 means hanging “without the implication of nails.” Here we have evidence that the NT cannot agree on how Jesus was “killed”.
Ironically, the neophyte provides the refutation to his very own objection, since this what he wrote in the previous paragraph:
As you see the picture it is quite clear that Acts 5:30 and the 4 Gospels account of the Crucifixion contradict each other. As I have demonstrated, the way Jesus was crucified in no way could mean that he was “hanging suspended.” The above picture shows that the person who is nailed is FIXED. For it to be Hanging [sic] it has to have some part left without any support. (Bold and italicized emphasis ours)
Even the taqiyyist can see that Jesus was affixed to the cross by being nailed to it. Therefore, there is nothing in the Greek word prospegnymi used in Acts 2:23 that rules out Jesus being affixed to the cross by nails. After all, just because it may not imply it is not the same as saying that the Greek term conclusively disproves that the Roman soldiers used nails to affix Christ to the cross.
So much for the New Testament contradicting itself.
Such shameless distortion of the Holy Scriptures is an indication of the spiritual influence which is guiding this particular Muslim polemicist, being the same influence which inspired his prophet:
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” John 8:44
All Scriptural references taken from the Authorized King James Version (AV) of the Holy Bible.
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Like I said before, if you found the two words used for Jesus alone in the same passage then you would have a case. So far you have NOT showing any evidence. Like I said earlier,
I don’t see how you have “refuted” the evidence presented . So we have word used for Jesus and a different one used for the other two according to Luke. NOW if the same two word was used exclusively for Jesus alone in that Luke passage, then you may have a case.
A simple response to your claims would be, that Jesus and the other two had completely different punishments handed to them according to Luke. While one was hanged the other was crucified. Any light-minded person would see through your weak attempt to disregard this article’s overwhelming evidences presented .
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Shamoun you pasted the following passage:
“And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they CRUCIFIED (estaurosan) him, AND THE MALEFACTORS, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, 37 and saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself. And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. And one of the malefactors WHICH WERE HANGED (kremasthenton) railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.” Luke 23:32-39
– Jesus: CRUCIFIED (estaurosan)
– The two males: malefactors WHICH WERE HANGED (kremasthenton)
How the hell does the above refute what is presented in this article? You have proven to us that Jesus and the other two males received DIFFERENT punishments.
You have refuted yourself.
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Abdullah – Sam knows I agree with Dr. White on the dialogue with Dr. Qadhi. We discussed it a little at my blog.
See our back and forth in the comment boxes at my post about those issues.
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2017/02/02/dr-whites-report-on-recent-ministry-with-analysis-of-the-attacks-on-dr-white-and-his-dialogue-with-dr-yasir-qadhi/#comment-4086
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“Here we see that both stauroo and kremannymi are used interchangeable to refer to the act of hanging or suspending someone on the cross via crucifixion.”
This doesn’t refute the article in as much as the Greek words for “crucifixion” and “hanging” have different lexical meanings which the article established.
Just because the book you believe in uses two terms interchangeably which have different meanings doesn’t mean that the two terms are not different in meaning. Such a book is sloppy and in error.
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You couldn’t get a better example of how stupid and dishonest Islam makes a person then what this bloke just posted here!
Now watch how I take this same objection and turn it against the Quran to show his god uses different, and often contradictory Arabic wording to describe the same event and conversation. So Lord willing make sure to watch out for those posts.
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Sam, Try to make them short please.
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As hominem is not a valid argument.
So also is to quoque fallacy.
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Correction: Ad hominem
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According to your profit, they are since he was notorious for insulting, cursing, abusing and even murdering people that disagreed and refuted him. So then why are you a Muslim?
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More ad hominem as a diversionary tactic.
What disturbed your mind so much to behave like this ?
This seems to be the behavior of those that undertake to square a circle!
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Thanks Pauly Wally.
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Samuel I expected better from you than to ape Shamoun’s behaviour.
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Paul
> Samuel I expected better from you than to ape Shamoun’s behaviour.
I am not sure what you mean? I cannot see how I am aping anyone’s behaviour. The way Sam drew our attention to Luke 23:32-39 answered the accusation of the post quickly and saved me having to do the research. I am thankful for that. That’s all.
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He didnt refute anything. You and Sam are living in a bubble.
Here is the passage Shamoun presented:
“And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they CRUCIFIED (estaurosan) him, AND THE MALEFACTORS, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, 37 and saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself. And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. And one of the malefactors WHICH WERE HANGED (kremasthenton) railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.” Luke 23:32-39
– Jesus: CRUCIFIED (estaurosan)
– The two males: malefactors WHICH WERE HANGED (kremasthenton)
How does the above refute what is presented in this article? Shamoun has proven to us that Jesus and the other two males received DIFFERENT punishments.
Shamoun refuted yourself.
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Flying Pir
Luk 23:32 Two others–criminals–were also led away to be executed with Him.
Luk 23:33 When they arrived at the place called The Skull, they crucified Him there, along with the criminals, one on the right and one on the left.
They were all crucified and the word hanged is also applied them.
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As I understand the skeleton can’t use the nails to support the whole, or indeed any part of, the weight, of the body. Normally the weight of the body would have to be transmitted through the soles of the feet and it is not possible in this case. So even with nails the body is still hanging. This is why the victims slowly asphyxiate.
The diagram shows two separate nails but I have not seen this anywhere else. Usually you see one long nail through both feet. As far as I can see it makes no difference anyway.
An unconvincing theory on the whole.
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The accounts of jesus`s death are indeed contradictory.
Why because it didn’t happen as the christians claim. You can’t even get the crucifixion right. Read it and weep:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7849852/Jesus-did-not-die-on-cross-says-scholar.html
By the way, shamboooble, can’t we just be friends? Let’s hold hands and sing kumbaya 🙂
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