History bears witness that overall the Jews fared better under Islamic rule than they did under the persecution of oppressive Christian rule.
Also, Jerusalem was open to all faiths under Islam, while that was not the case under Christian rule, and modern history shows that it is not entirely the case under Jewish rule either.
That is because Judaism and Christianity do not recognize the subsequent progression of revelation, while Islam recognizes the validity of previous divine revelations.
Interesting quote, but this was not at all places and all times. The greatest Orthodox Jewish scholar of all time, Moses Maimonides in his epistle to the Jews in Yemen who were being persecuted by the Arab Muslim rulers said:
“Remember, my co-religionists, that on account of the vast number of our sins, God has hurled us in the midst of this people, the Arabs, who have persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us, “Our enemies themselves shall judge us” (Deuteronomy 32:31). Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they.”
I just want to point out that this quote never gets much discussion. It’s true that this is only one opinion and it comes from from the 1100’s. Something to think about at least.
Ibn Issam did say “overall” so the experiences of this Rabbi would be one of many. I greatly agree with the medieval Catholic policy toward the Jews called “Sicut Judeais Non”.
You have to mention a 12th century Yemeni sect persecuting Jews under a post about how tolerant Muslims were in Jerusalem and other places? And this is enough for you to say “but this was not at all places and all times”.
The context of the letter was Jews being persecuted in Yemen but his statement was a general one. Maimonides was born and grew up in Almohad Spain where Jews suffered heavy persecution under Islamic rule. Many, including him left the country.
Did the Jews fare better under Islam or Christianity? This question can only be answered after the time and location are given. There is no one consistent answer.
One can generalise. The Catholic Church and other Christians before Vatican II were extremely antisemitic (just see the statements of the church fathers). This fed into the conditions that produced the Holocaust. No other religion on earth has been so vicious to the Jews.
For most of its history Islam has provided a safe haven for Jews.
“aimonides was born and grew up in Almohad Spain where Jews suffered heavy persecution under Islamic rule. Many, including him left the country.”
That’s not true! Maimonides, whom jews consider almost as a prophet , had many advantages living in Spain in some periods of time,. He himself was a product of Islamic thoughts. However, Ibn Tumart’s period was difficult for muslims themselves not jews.
Most period that jews suffered through in Islam were the period that muslims suffered too.
You will not find jews got persecuted because they are jews as we see in christianity.
You still believe that only 144, 000 of jews who will not be killed out of 14 mill jews when Jesus returns.
Catholicism is not anti-Semitic in the slightest. Anti-semitic is against the Jews as a race. The Catholic Church is anti-Judaism and has always been.
My question to all who think Christianity is responsible for the holocaust. I’ve asked this to Rabbi Skobac of Jews for Judaism and haven’t gotten an answer.
If Christianity is responsible for the holocaust, why didn’t the holocaust happen when Christianity was in 100% control for example from 1000 to 1400 and not when it was reduced to social club status in the 20th century?
Have I read the verbal attacks? Yes. Certainly of Chrisostom. However, those were not true of Jews who converted to Christianity so it cannot be called anti-Semitism but anti-Judaism. Those attacks are directed against practitioners of Judaism only. Otherwise we would hate the Blessed Virgin, Paul and the disciples.
This doesn’t lay the ground for the holocaust since the holocaust persecuted atheist Jews equally to Orthodox Jews. They even persecuted Jews who converted to Catholicism such as St. Edith Stein. How is this in accordance with the teachings of Catholicism?
Also, do you have an answer to my challenge that I previously put down?
The Holocaust was not directly Christian of course. But it was a product of the legacy of Christianity.
The Catholics protected Jews under the doctrine of mutual service. Luther called for a Holocaust though.
Your examples of Islamic persecution were a very strange 12th century Yemeni sect and the Almohads.
“The Holocaust was not directly Christian of course. But it was a product of the legacy of Christianity.”
Rider, respond to my challenge in the previous posts then we’ll see if this statement carries any weight.
“The Catholics protected Jews under the doctrine of mutual service. Luther called for a Holocaust though.”
I’ll let the Protestants defend Luther. He’s not part of my faith and is anathema under the Council of Trent. Maybe Ken Temple can say something about him.
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History bears witness that overall the Jews fared better under Islamic rule than they did under the persecution of oppressive Christian rule.
Also, Jerusalem was open to all faiths under Islam, while that was not the case under Christian rule, and modern history shows that it is not entirely the case under Jewish rule either.
That is because Judaism and Christianity do not recognize the subsequent progression of revelation, while Islam recognizes the validity of previous divine revelations.
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Interesting quote, but this was not at all places and all times. The greatest Orthodox Jewish scholar of all time, Moses Maimonides in his epistle to the Jews in Yemen who were being persecuted by the Arab Muslim rulers said:
“Remember, my co-religionists, that on account of the vast number of our sins, God has hurled us in the midst of this people, the Arabs, who have persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us, “Our enemies themselves shall judge us” (Deuteronomy 32:31). Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they.”
I just want to point out that this quote never gets much discussion. It’s true that this is only one opinion and it comes from from the 1100’s. Something to think about at least.
Ibn Issam did say “overall” so the experiences of this Rabbi would be one of many. I greatly agree with the medieval Catholic policy toward the Jews called “Sicut Judeais Non”.
The entire epistle can be found here:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Yemen/Complete
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thanks Allan. Helpful.
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You have to mention a 12th century Yemeni sect persecuting Jews under a post about how tolerant Muslims were in Jerusalem and other places? And this is enough for you to say “but this was not at all places and all times”.
This is disgusting Allan Ruhl.
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Hello Rider,
The context of the letter was Jews being persecuted in Yemen but his statement was a general one. Maimonides was born and grew up in Almohad Spain where Jews suffered heavy persecution under Islamic rule. Many, including him left the country.
Did the Jews fare better under Islam or Christianity? This question can only be answered after the time and location are given. There is no one consistent answer.
LikeLiked by 1 person
One can generalise. The Catholic Church and other Christians before Vatican II were extremely antisemitic (just see the statements of the church fathers). This fed into the conditions that produced the Holocaust. No other religion on earth has been so vicious to the Jews.
For most of its history Islam has provided a safe haven for Jews.
The irony is that Jesus was a Jew!
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“aimonides was born and grew up in Almohad Spain where Jews suffered heavy persecution under Islamic rule. Many, including him left the country.”
That’s not true! Maimonides, whom jews consider almost as a prophet , had many advantages living in Spain in some periods of time,. He himself was a product of Islamic thoughts. However, Ibn Tumart’s period was difficult for muslims themselves not jews.
Most period that jews suffered through in Islam were the period that muslims suffered too.
You will not find jews got persecuted because they are jews as we see in christianity.
You still believe that only 144, 000 of jews who will not be killed out of 14 mill jews when Jesus returns.
LikeLike
Catholicism is not anti-Semitic in the slightest. Anti-semitic is against the Jews as a race. The Catholic Church is anti-Judaism and has always been.
My question to all who think Christianity is responsible for the holocaust. I’ve asked this to Rabbi Skobac of Jews for Judaism and haven’t gotten an answer.
If Christianity is responsible for the holocaust, why didn’t the holocaust happen when Christianity was in 100% control for example from 1000 to 1400 and not when it was reduced to social club status in the 20th century?
LikeLike
Have you read the verbal attacks on the Jews by the early fathers?
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Steven Anderson on Holocaust
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Have I read the verbal attacks? Yes. Certainly of Chrisostom. However, those were not true of Jews who converted to Christianity so it cannot be called anti-Semitism but anti-Judaism. Those attacks are directed against practitioners of Judaism only. Otherwise we would hate the Blessed Virgin, Paul and the disciples.
This doesn’t lay the ground for the holocaust since the holocaust persecuted atheist Jews equally to Orthodox Jews. They even persecuted Jews who converted to Catholicism such as St. Edith Stein. How is this in accordance with the teachings of Catholicism?
Also, do you have an answer to my challenge that I previously put down?
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no i dont have an answer.
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The Holocaust was not directly Christian of course. But it was a product of the legacy of Christianity.
The Catholics protected Jews under the doctrine of mutual service. Luther called for a Holocaust though.
Your examples of Islamic persecution were a very strange 12th century Yemeni sect and the Almohads.
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“The Holocaust was not directly Christian of course. But it was a product of the legacy of Christianity.”
Rider, respond to my challenge in the previous posts then we’ll see if this statement carries any weight.
“The Catholics protected Jews under the doctrine of mutual service. Luther called for a Holocaust though.”
I’ll let the Protestants defend Luther. He’s not part of my faith and is anathema under the Council of Trent. Maybe Ken Temple can say something about him.
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Jews are just as much anti-Christs as the next Muslim…
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Muslims are not anti Chists they are pro-Christs!
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