13 Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the congregation went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses became angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15 Moses said to them, ‘Have you allowed all the women to live? 16 These women here, on Balaam’s advice, made the Israelites act treacherously against the Lord in the affair of Peor, so that the plague came among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. 19 Camp outside the camp for seven days; whoever of you has killed any person or touched a corpse, purify yourselves and your captives on the third and on the seventh day. 20 You shall purify every garment, every article of skin, everything made of goats’ hair, and every article of wood.’
Typical. When we bring up the their scripture, they go all wild. How about you try and defend it, he. Instead of pointing fingers at others. How Christian of you. You Jesus ordered all of the things in the OT. And this is the best you can do??
Picking at Muhammad is easy these days cus everyone is doing it (that’s where the attention lies). But you pussy out when it comes to your own scripture. So how about you live up to your nickname and defend Chris for he is the one that ordered all of this before he came to earth 2000 years ago.
We don’t need you or your pagan garbage as an endorsement for our beliefs. If you’re going to be a little whining prick then just don’t come back to this forum go learn some math since you think 1+1+1=1.
Muhammad (saw) is best example for mankind wether you like it or not. Now answer the above verses or get lost.
Hey
so doing what the Arab pagans were doing is not paganism?
Its easy to act tough on this blog but this what some of you Muslims do you attack by being rude.
You just didnt like what I saying about Mubammad because this is really the same old rubbish churned up year after year.
You Muslims were the ones wiping out churches and Christians hundreds of years before the 10th century.
the 10th century is you guys started this “the bible is corrupted” nonsense.
you say you believe in Jesus yet you can’t quote anything that he taught.
you claim Muhummad is in the bible OT and NT but cant quote anything about him
Deut 18:18 is Jesus
John 14 It is the Holy Ghost
Song of Solomon 5:16 is Solomon
Isaiah 42 The servant is Jesus
Isaiah 29 Judgement against the Jews
sorry he is not in there…only one place you find him in the bible
Matthew 24
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
You say Gabriel is the Holy spirit in the koran yet in John you muslims say its Muhammad.
Genesis 1:2-3
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
so in this verse is this Gabriel?
what about this verse because here he Gabriel says the Holy Ghost will come upon Mary and overshadow her
Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
1+1+1=1 where did you get that from? where does the bible speak about three gods?
does the bible speak about Father Son and Holy Spirit?
does the koran speak about Allah his word his spirit?
is his word him and his spirit him?
You say Allah is one and not like his creation yet you want describe him like a man…one man.
No one fully understands Gods nature so stop acting like you do.
running your mouth does not bother me unless of course you want to say it to my face.
Here is some beautiful Quranic reading for your minors to meditate on:
And Mary, the daughter of Imran, who guarded her PRIVATE PARTS (farj – vagina/vulva), so We breathed INTO IT (her vagina/vulva) of Our Spirit and she established as true the Words of her Lord and His Books and she had been among the ones who are morally obligated.S. 66:12 Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar (comments within parentheses are mine)
So your god loves to talk about and breathe into women’s vaginas/vulvas.
Here are some more:
Reclining upon the couches lined with silk brocade, and the fruits of the two Gardens will be near at hand. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? Wherein both will be those (maidens) restraining their glances upon their husbands, whom no man or jinn YATMITHHUNNA (HAS OPENED THEIR HYMENS WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) before them. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? (In beauty) they are like rubies and coral… Therein (gardens) will be fair (wives) good and beautiful; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? Houris (beautiful, fair females) restrained in pavilions; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? Whom no man or jinn YATMITHHUNNA (HAS OPENED THEIR HYMENS WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) before them. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny Reclining on green cushions and rich beautiful mattresses. S. 55:54-58, 70-76 Hilali-khan
Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and vineyards and maidens with SWELLING BREASTS, like of age, and a cup overflowing. S. 78:31-34 Arberry
Would you look at that! Jihadi thugs will be busy deflowering swelling breasted whores for all eternity in Allah’s whore house you call paradise!
These make for fascinating bed time stories I might say!
Lol! Fatty Sam is here again. Swelling breasts indicates maturity, not fatness like yours.
Shabir Ally refuted you on this in the debate you had with him. You know, the one where he humiliated you.
Paul puts up some verses of your Bible and all you can do is quote verses from the Quran that have nothing to with the subject. Typical Christian respons. How about you actually refute him.
Now get lost Fatty Sam!
Believingandworshipingsatan doesn’t like fat people. Well neither did his vile, wicked pedophile profit who wanted to dump believinginsatanasallah’s mother Sauda for being a fat obese slob:
BEGIN
We are told in the Mishkat Al Masabih that:
Ibn ‘Abbas said that when God’s messenger died he left nine wives, eight of whom he used to visit equally. (Bukhari and Muslim.)
‘A’isha told that when Sauda became old she said, “Messenger of God, I appoint to ‘A’isha the day you visit me.” So God’s messenger allotted two days to ‘A’isha, hers and Sauda’s. (Bukhari and Muslim.) (Mishkat Al Masabih, English translation with explanatory notes by Dr. James Robson [Sh. Muhammad Ashraf Publishers, Booksellers & Exporters, Lahore-Pakistan, Reprint 1990], Volume II, Book XIII. – Marriage, Chapter X: Sharing Visits to one’s Wives Equally, p. 686)
And:
‘Ata told that when they were with Ibn ‘Abbas at Maimuna’s funeral in Sarif he said, “This is God’s messenger’s wife, so when you lift her bier do not shake her or disturb her, but be gentle with her, for God’s messenger had nine wives with eight of whom he shared his time, but to one of them he did not allot a share.” ‘Ata said that they heard that the one to whom God’s messenger did not allot a share was Safiya who was the last of them to die. Razin said that someone other than ‘Ata declared that she was Sauda, and that is sounder. She gave her day to ‘A’isha when the messenger intended to divorce her, saying to him, “Keep me. I have given my day ‘A’isha. Perhaps I may be one of your wives in paradise.” (Ibid., p. 687)
Another modern writer unashamedly admits that:
He married Sawda, his second wife, while in Makka. However, after a while, he wanted to divorce her for certain reasons. When she heard this, she was extremely upset. She ran to him and begged, ‘O Messenger of God, I wish no worldly thing of you. I will sacrifice the time allocated to me, if you do not wish to visit me. But, please, do not deprive me of being your wife. I wish to go to the Hereafter as your wife. I care for nothing else.’ Her plea was accepted by the Messenger, who, however, never neglected visiting her, and Sawda remained one of the pure wives. (F. Gulen, The Infinite Light, Volume 1, Chapter 6: The Prophet Muhammad as husband and father, THE PROPHET AND HIS WIVES; source)
Although Gulen confirms that Muhammad intended to divorce her, and that Sauda gave up her day, he fails to provide any sources to substantiate his assertion that Muhammad continued to give her a day. His claim contradicts the consensus of the Islamic scholarly references.
The hadiths also mention that Sauda was an overweight woman:
Narrated Aisha:
Sauda (the wife of the Prophet) went out to answer the call of nature after it was made obligatory (for all the Muslims ladies) to observe the veil. She was A FAT HUGE LADY, and everybody who knew her before could recognize her. So ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab saw her and said, “O Sauda! By Allah, you cannot hide yourself from us, so think of a way by which you should not be recognized on going out. Sauda returned while Allah’s Apostle was in my house taking his supper and a bone covered with meat was in his hand. She entered and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I went out to answer the call of nature and ‘Umar said to me so-and-so.” Then Allah inspired him (the Prophet) and when the state of inspiration was over and the bone was still in his hand as he had not put in down, he said (to Sauda), “You (women) have been allowed to go out for your needs.” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 318)
What this basically implies is that Muhammad no longer felt attracted to Sauda and wanted to abandon her because she was old and “fat”. Hence, Sura 4:128-130 gives men the right to simply ignore wives whom they are no longer attracted to, denying them the pleasure of love and intimacy!
END
Now I understand that reading the Quran can cause brain damage which is why this stone worshiper thinks that the reference to the swelling breasts of these whores denotes their maturity, but this only shows bow sick and perverted his god is. After all, there is no need for your “”all knowing” satan to use breasts as a sign of maturity unless he is a pervert like you and your profit who defines women by their bodies and therefore looks at at their sexual parts in order to determine whether they are mature or not.
Christians are not obliged to imitate the actions of the biblical prophets. This teaching is not telling christians to follow its example for all time.
‘All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.’
And ones again defendChrist and fatty sam didn’t answer the quoted verses. Buahaha!!
DefendChrist deut 18:18 is not about jesus. He was nothing like moses and you know it. John 14 is NOT about your spook the Holy Ghost for it says that whatsoever he hears he shall speak and he wont speak from his own. God speaking on someone elses behaf, LOL!!!
Isaiah 42 doesn’t speak about jesus, get over it already. You jokers even think that isaiah 53 is about jesus.Wooow! So delusional!
1+1+1=1 according to your trinity. The trinity is a paradox! A mistery loool! Christians always respond by saying “No one truly understands God’s nature”. Such a pathetic way of dealing with your belief. God is ONE. Simple as that. But if we have to listen to you jokers wordgymnastics trying to put the three in to one that’s just sad.
It was you who started to have a big mouth. Look at ur first comment. You simple could not answer and so u started to bitch and whine like fatty Sam.
Your Jesus ordered all of the things in the OT for HUNDREDS of years!! And then comes to earth 2000 years ago and all of a sudden he is mister nice guy?
Dodging again and again. This is getting pathetic.
Muhammed is the last prophet of God and Allah will make his religion dominant over every other religion wether you (the pagans) like it or not.
If you can’t answer what was originally stated then don’t bother coming here. No one is forcing you to read it. And if u can’t politely answer then don’t pretend to be shockef when u receive comments like mine. U Christians think everyone should treat u like gods.
O and fatty Sam we are no interested to read your twists on islam, just answet the initial verses that were quoted or go swallow another cowsized burger filled with bacon.
Let me deal this one first okay please answer me this question without losing your cool.
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Muslims keep telling us along with the Jews that the servant mentioned here in the verse is Israel.
1. If this is Israel the one has the iniquity of everyone laid them then who are the sheep that have gone astray?
2. Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
When did Israel become an offering for sin?
DEUT 18:18
First lets look at the previous verses
1.CHOOSING A KING
Deu 17:15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
2.THE LEVITES.
Deu 18:1 The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
Deu 18:2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
3.THE PROPHET
Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
1. Who is the speaker and who is he speaking? Moses is speaking to Israel.
2. Were the Ishmaelites serving and worshipping the God of Moses? No just read
Psalm 83:1-6
Psa 83:2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
Psa 83:3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
Psa 83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
Psa 83:5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
Psa 83:6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
Psa 83:7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
It plainly obvious that in 1 and 2 tthe scripture is talking about men of Israel and all a sudden you Muslims are trying to change the natural flow of the text to suit your prophet.
Isaiah 53:7 —> Jesus did not open his mouth?? He opened his mouth on the cross and on the way to the cross.
Matthew 27:46 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Luke 23:28 Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children.
Isaiah 53:10 —> He shall see his seed. The word ‘seed’ here is referred to a physical offspring.Jesus had no children
Isaiah 53:5 has a mistranslation :But he was wounded FOR our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
The hebrew word is mistranslated to ‘for’ while it should be translated to ‘from’. Interesting thing is that everywhere else it is properly translated to ‘from’ EXCEPT in isaiah 53. What are the chances.
Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
The kings shall shut their mouths at him?
Isaiah 49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Yes we do say that the servant represents Israel because IT SAYS SO. So the suffering of Israel implies the suffering of the Israelites.
Jesus was not a ruler like Moses. Moses ruled according to the Law. He was a governmental ruler. Jesus was not.
Most of the times btw when the NT quotes the OT it is almost always a misquotation.
I was answering your comment. The text say it’s Israel. That’s cristal clear! Even Shamoun admitted this and that’s saying something. He just implied that since Jesus was of the Israelites, the prophecy must refer to him. Look I’m not trying to be rude hear but perhaps it means the obvious: those that have gone away from the Law and therefor not part of Israel (and the covenant with Jacob and Isaac). What do you propose?
Btw Paul I can’t reply to comments made on other comments. For example defendchrist can reply to your last comment but I can’t. Is there something that I have to do to fix this.
PS is it possible to edit my comments? Sometimes I’ll overlook spelling mistakes and not be able to correct them after I posted the comment.
I think you can reply to comments, you just have to trace all the way back to the first comment and reply.
Its irritating but thats wordpress.
Regarding spelling mistakes: sorry you can’t edit them after posting, unless you ask me to do it for you. Perhaps compose your comment on another page and spell check it before posting it here.
Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Numbers 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
what is the story behind all of this? you find this in Number 25:1-
Num 25:1 And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.
Num 25:2 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods.
Num 25:3 And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.
who was angry with who here in the text?
Num 25:9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.
Are you telling me that no “innocent babies” died in the plague?
The God of the bible judged his own people and people died because of sin.
AFTER God deals with his own people he then turns his attention to those people who led his people into sexual immorality and the worship of false gods
God says avenge yourselves.
Num 31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 31:2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
Then they dealt with all the men.
Numbers 31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
Num 31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
KILL EVERY MALE
Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
This is God’s decision and I don’t pretend to know everything about God’s reasons for why he does what he does, and neither does he give his reasons.
He flooded the earth (as far as we are concerned) and many died young and old and that was the actions of God.
What about Sodom and the other cities around it were destroyed with brimstone and fire does God explain his reasons for everyone going up in smoke? no he does not.
So for me my question to you is what sort of answer are you expecting to give? Are we suppose to make some excuse up for God as though he needs me to defend him.
What I can say is God does not just going around wiping people out for no apparent reason, and neither does he let his own people get off scott free.
When a Tsunami hits the shore there is no picking and choosing of young over old but people are just wiped out.
Well you tried to sugar coat it. How do you know a girl is a virgin? There was really only ONE way to find out and you know what way that was.
If He wants to wipe out nations with natural disasters then that’s His decision. Why would He order His people to do it since there is no real justification given in the OT? Btw how do you KNOW that He killed innocents when wiping out nations. Did He say that He did. If not then why not presume He didn’t. He is God isn’t He? He can make it happen so that no innocents die in the destruction of nations (like there only being wicked people in that nation).
Anyway the thing that I want to put emphasis on is the fact that you (and most Christians) will go to such lengths to try and defend such passages which you would NEVER do in a million years if there was something like that in the Quran even if it’s magnitude were equivalent to 1% of that of the verses stated above.
First of all, there was no ‘test for virginity’ needed/used. In spite of the elaborate/miraculous one created by the later rabbis (ingenious, but altogether unnecessary) using the Urim and Thummim (!), the ‘test for virginity’ in the ANE was a simple visual one:
Was the female pre-pubescent?
Was the female wearing any attire, jewelry, or adornments required for/associated with virginity for that culture?
Was the female wearing any attire, jewelry, or adornments required for/associated with non-virginity for that culture (e.g., veil indicating married status)?
Because virginity was generally associated with legal proof for blood-inheritance issues in ancient cultures (e.g., land, property, kinship, relationships), virginity itself was often marked by some type of clothing (e.g., the robe of Tamar in 2 Sam 13) or by cosmetic means (cf. the Hindu ‘pre-marriage dot’); as was more typically non-virginal married status (e.g., veils, headwear, jewelry, or certain hairstyles). Of course, non-virginal unmarried status (e.g., temple prostitutes and secular prostitutes) were also indicated by special markings or adornments (e.g. jewelry, dress—cf. Proverbs 7.10; Hos 2.4-5).
For example, the erotic art of the ANE shows a consistent difference in hairstyles between women and sacred prostitutes:
“In fact, the physical characteristics of the women on the [erotic] plaques are totally different from those of other female representations in Mesopotamian and Syrian art. As with the clay figurines, they are frequently naked and their hair is loose—none of these traits is to be found in statues or seals that represent women…These groups [associations of cultic prostitutes] were defined by a generic name [the ‘separated ones’], while their specific names of individual associations hinted at their garments, which were particularly luxurious, or odd, their coiffure, or to their general appearance, which distinguished them from other women.” [OT:CANE:2526]
Some of these patterns varied by culture/age:
“Once married, women were not veiled in Babylonia. Legal texts imply that married women were veiled in Assyria.” [OT:DLAM:135]
“The bride was covered with a veil that the groom removed. Married women were not veiled in Babylonia but seem to have had a special headgear; legal texts, however, suggest that married women were veiled in Assyria.” [OT:CANE:489]
In other words, the process of identifying the females who were (a) not married and (b) not prostitutes, either sacred or secular, would have been relatively straightforward—at the precision level required by the event. (http://christianthinktank.com/midian.html)
Now ask the stone kisser if he is ok with his women prostituting profit treating women as whores in the guise of muta, and raping captive women even in situations where the husbands were still alive. And ask him to prove to you that his filthy book of porn prohibits sleeping with premature minors.
“I wasn’t there and neither has God explained so what do you want me to do make something up?”
You don’t need to be there to know it. The only way to know it was by testing them out. I’m sure u know what that means.
“The bible says because of what the Midianites did.
led Israel into fornication and the worship of false gods and Israel was judged by God and 24,000 people lost their lives even women and children.”
Well that’s a nice way to justify many things isn’t it? That’s not an answer. You have the annihilation of nations done by the people that He himself ordered and your God can’t even give a just excuse. That’s why people have used it soooo many times throughout the past as a justification for wiping out countless of people. Why should I have high expectations then about anything else that he says? What do children have to do with it? God (and therefor so did Jesus) even told them to kill another nation (men, women, children and all the animals!!!) for what the Amalekites did 300 years earlier. Is that justice?
Btw are you going to answer the points I raised concerning Isaiah 53, etc in one of my previous comments?
DC
The early Islamic Movement liberated people from many long years under Christian tyranny, oppression, and imperial dictatorship at the hands of Byzantine Christian Rule who themselves had destroyed nations, killed, raped and enslaved the populace..
Presumably once freed from the shackles of Christian rule by Islam, there may have been some vengeance reprisals by the local people in each region directed at those deemed responsible for many years of Oppression under the imperial boot of Christianity.
However, this was not something actually condoned by Islam itself, which encouraged tolerance and coexistence.
The first Crusade, and those after where nothing more than religiously sanctioned land theft and shameless power grabs, aimed at destroying nations and the religions of others. More to be ashamed of then proud.
So if anyone needs to take a long look in the mirror and repent of past sins, it is Christianity moreso than Islam.
Hi Ibn Issam
In no way a do I condone or even pretend there have never been any shocking things done in the name of Christianity, but my point is Muslims need to stop acting like they had this wonderful peaceful past.
No one just lets people walk into their countries. So are you saying that Muslims have never raped and killed everything in sight? if so you guys are lying through your teeth.
Hi Ibn Issam
Its the same question I dealt with ago Muslims are questioning the way God took people out of the earth.
1. in the flood were women and children killed and who is it that brought it?
2. in Sodom and Gormorrah were women and children killed and who was it that brought down the fire?
3. The Amalekites and others were famous for sacrificing their babies to the false god Molech who is to blame for that?
4. I mentioned than once that God punished the Jews for their sin with Midianite women and worship of gods we know 24,000 died I would say men wonen and children
5. And Numbers 31:17-18 you dont like the way things were done…kill all the boys and women that slept with man.
6. Did God stop the Babylonians and Assyrians who killed Jews men women and children…no.
God is bringing judgement to the people through his people.
That is exactly what Muslims did in the name of your god.
DC
Like you, I in no way condone or even pretend there have never been any shocking things done in the name of Islam. But my point is that Christians should stop throwing every historical misdeed in our faces, misportraying Islam in order to distract & deflect from legitimate critcism of certain Biblical verses.
We know that there were atrocities committed by Jews, Christians & Muslims at different times in history. But there were also times when each religion including Islam, experienced a “wonderful peaceful past.” Christians need to stop acting as if their own history is morally superior to everyone else’s history.
No one is, “lying through your teeth” – Muslims have no problems dealing with history. But it seems that Christians are the ones who insist on a lopsided & biased misportrayal of Islamic history, and that is what we take issue with.
So instead of using history as an excuse to attack Islam why don’t you deal with the issue that Believer raised in his comment:
“God (and therefore so did Jesus) even told them to kill another nation (men, women, children and all the animals!!!) for what the Amalekites did 300 years earlier. Is that justice.”
What muslims fail to comprehend is that comparing God’s justice and actions in the Bible- as a defence or parallel to defend Muhammad- is not only shirk, but apples and oranges.
Where did Allah command Muhammad to raid caravans? Where did Allah command Muhammad to kill those that mocked him? Where did Allah command Muhammad to marry a 6 year old girl?
You can’t defend a man by appeal to God- that is shirk!
Paulus,
I am not surprised that you defending utter annihilation and genocide against enemies as sanctioned in your Bible.
When the man we are talking about is God’s own Prophet and Messenger, then we can defend him by appealing to God, who is not the author of confusion. When God is in line with what someone would already do or believe based on reason, no fallacy is committed.
The Irony is that Paulus has no problem with appealing to God in defense of Jesus whom he understands to be the Greco Roman Man-God himself – blatant paganism and unrepentant shirk.
If there is any fallacy or shirk here, it is that of the Trinity.
Sam if there is any ‘scripture’ that is pornographic, then it’s the Bible. Incest, sex between 2 people given in full detail. Noah having over 1000 wives/concubines (and the concubine leading him to idolatry).
Everything that you people bring up, 100 times more significant in magnitude is found in the Bible. You’re a joke Uncle Sam. Get a life already.
“They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah refuses except to perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.” To bad you wont be able to stop the truth with your paganism he.
Poor little panda.
DC,
The filth and Porn in the Bible provide yet more evidence that it is a book written by fallible men, and not from the inspiration of God.
Ezekiel 23 is a particularly dirty chapter in the Bible:
Here is an excerpt:
“When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt and lusted after her lovers there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed your young breasts.” (Ezekiel 23:18-21)
Men were hung like donkeys and boobs were ripe for fondling? How awful.
“….whose members (male appendage) were like those of donkeys, and whose issue (sperm ejaculate) was like that of horses.”
Sounds like the fallible human authors of the Bible had a penchant for writing gay bestiality porn references in their Bible. Only lonely, desperate, sick and apparently easily aroused fallible men would write such disgusting filthy trash…….what is worse is that they ascribe such to God……Astaghfirallah!!!
Which nations did the Muslims “destroy”? I would love to hear some examples. I don’t think that burning a few churches (which no doubt did occur in some cases over the course of hundreds of years of Muslim domination) is akin to genocide and the murder of women, children and infants.
In contrast, your Bible says that the Israelites literally destroyed many nations in Canaan. They literally killed women, children and even babies! I love to see you hypocrites squirm at the uncomfortable facts about your Bible and how you always try to weasel your way out by deflecting to Islam and its alleged violence against other nations.
Oh and by the way, silly boy, if the First Crusade was a Christian response to centuries of alleged Muslim persecution, then why didn’t they respond much earlier? Why did it take them more than 2 centuries to finally respond? Oh and let’s not forget that on their way to Jerusalem, the crusaders massacred Jews, Muslims and any heretical Christians along the way. But nice try in defending the violence inspired by your Christian brethren!
You said…Oh and by the way, silly boy, if the First Crusade was a Christian response to centuries of alleged Muslim persecution, then why didn’t they respond much earlier?
Let me explain Jesus didn’t send his people out to war and kill, you didn’t see Jesus do anything like that.
The Muslims were wiping up Christians and burning their buildings.
It was the Roman Catholic Church that decided to go against the Muslims who were venturing into Spain and France and many other places.
Israelites and Christians it’s funny how you want to lay claim to being apart of Abraham, and reject anything negative to do with the history back then.
We are hypocrites why? Nobody trying to hide from the things that happened in the bible it is a part of human history…which you belong to.
DC,
The Crusades had more to do with violent biblical passages which encourage genocide, annihilation of nations, killing and slaying of enemies, wielding the righteous sword against the heathens, religiously sanctioned land theft and shameless power grabs, aimed at destroying nations and the religions of others. etc. What is irritating is that you seem think that the Crusaders were just a bunch of innocent victims? Poor babies.
* Jesus didn’t send his people to war and Kill? These verses say the opposite:
* But those mine enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring them hither and slay them before me.’ Luke 19:27
* “God (and therefore so did Jesus) even told them to kill another nation (men, women, children and all the animals!!!) for what the Amalekites did 300 years earlier. Is that justice.”
Or how about the three Biblical “VERSES OF THE SWORD”:
* Then said He unto them, “But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it and likewise his pack; and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22:36
* Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a SWORD. Matt. 10:34
* And the remnant were slain with the SWORD of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Rev. 19:21
So when you accuse Muslims of violence, Jihad, etc. and then try to white wash Christian history as being nothing more than a response to Muslim aggression……when there are centuries of Byzantine Christian Imperial oppression and tyranny that you fail recall, not to mention plenty of offensive and aggressive verses in the Bible that call for unjust aggression towards non-Christians, well then………
……don’t be surprised when we call you out as being hypocrites.
DC,
Luke 19:27 is pretty graphic “Slay them before me.” Matt. 10:34 is very clear also “I came not to send peace, but a SWORD.” You may interpret as a “Sword of separation” but it can also be interpreted as a “Sword of Vengeance.”
If the Qur’an contained these verses, we would never hear the end of it!!
DC
I notice also that you did not deal with or Luke 22:36. Why would Jesus ask his followers to purchase a sword, unless he intended for them to use it in the act of physical violence? And then there is Rev. 19:21, which depicts Jesus killing his enemies in the end times. Not to mention once again, Num 31:17-18.
Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Bible, Numbers, 31:17-18)
And [recall] when We saved your forefathers from the people of Pharaoh, who afflicted you with the worst torment, slaughtering your [newborn] sons and keeping your females alive. And in that was a great trial from your Lord. (Qur’an, Surah 2, Verse 39)
“Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.” (Bible, Numbers, 31:17-18)
“Indeed, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people into factions, oppressing a sector among them, slaughtering their [newborn] sons and keeping their females alive. Indeed, he was of the corrupters.” (Qur’an, 28:4)
Hi Robert2017blog
If you want to swear go down the street to the nightclubs and bars, and if you are replying me don’t swear as I have said others it’s easy to talk tough on a blog.
I don’t know what was said elsewhere, but I agree with DC that foul language is unbecoming of anyone who claims to be a person of faith. Especially for anyone who is Muslim foul language is Haraam, and we should know better. Try to deal with the issues and leave it at that.
It’s actually NOT a part of history! Archaeological studies have shown that the Biblical stories are just that…stories. You might want to read “The Bible Unearthed”.
But the point is that you hypocrites try to demonize Muslims for alleged atrocities (and you will notice that I never denied that some Muslims have persecuted Christians) while trying to defend the atrocities in the Bible. You can’t have it both ways. Either you condemn genocide altogether or you accept it in all situations. But even then, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. For you see, even though there have been atrocities committed by some Muslims, NOTHING these people may have done compares to the sickening genocide your Bible describes and which you try to defend. So yeah, these uncomfortable stories make you squirm and change topics. But the irony is that they probably never even happened! They are just made up stories by some anonymous Israelites who just wanted thump their chests!
Blogging Theology 
Return from the War
13 Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the congregation went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses became angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15 Moses said to them, ‘Have you allowed all the women to live? 16 These women here, on Balaam’s advice, made the Israelites act treacherously against the Lord in the affair of Peor, so that the plague came among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. 19 Camp outside the camp for seven days; whoever of you has killed any person or touched a corpse, purify yourselves and your captives on the third and on the seventh day. 20 You shall purify every garment, every article of skin, everything made of goats’ hair, and every article of wood.’
Numbers 31.
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Hi Paul
And whats your point? you Muslims just go around in circles trying prove a point.
So the Jews did this in the text are trying to make out they were like Muhammad who did all sorts of things with his little wife.
This is written in Hadith and things and advice given by your religious leaders.
A muslim man wanted to know how he could enjoy his little 8 yr old wife…how can you have feelings for a little girl?
I wont say what he said but they need to both be put in jail for a long time.
your religion is filled with this because your prophet sanctioned this type of behaviour…shocking.
So please dont bring your numbers 31:17-18 for your shock effect.
You have nothing meaningful to talk about in Islam
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Typical. When we bring up the their scripture, they go all wild. How about you try and defend it, he. Instead of pointing fingers at others. How Christian of you. You Jesus ordered all of the things in the OT. And this is the best you can do??
Picking at Muhammad is easy these days cus everyone is doing it (that’s where the attention lies). But you pussy out when it comes to your own scripture. So how about you live up to your nickname and defend Chris for he is the one that ordered all of this before he came to earth 2000 years ago.
We don’t need you or your pagan garbage as an endorsement for our beliefs. If you’re going to be a little whining prick then just don’t come back to this forum go learn some math since you think 1+1+1=1.
Muhammad (saw) is best example for mankind wether you like it or not. Now answer the above verses or get lost.
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Ouch!
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Hey
so doing what the Arab pagans were doing is not paganism?
Its easy to act tough on this blog but this what some of you Muslims do you attack by being rude.
You just didnt like what I saying about Mubammad because this is really the same old rubbish churned up year after year.
You Muslims were the ones wiping out churches and Christians hundreds of years before the 10th century.
the 10th century is you guys started this “the bible is corrupted” nonsense.
you say you believe in Jesus yet you can’t quote anything that he taught.
you claim Muhummad is in the bible OT and NT but cant quote anything about him
Deut 18:18 is Jesus
John 14 It is the Holy Ghost
Song of Solomon 5:16 is Solomon
Isaiah 42 The servant is Jesus
Isaiah 29 Judgement against the Jews
sorry he is not in there…only one place you find him in the bible
Matthew 24
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
You say Gabriel is the Holy spirit in the koran yet in John you muslims say its Muhammad.
Genesis 1:2-3
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
so in this verse is this Gabriel?
what about this verse because here he Gabriel says the Holy Ghost will come upon Mary and overshadow her
Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
1+1+1=1 where did you get that from? where does the bible speak about three gods?
does the bible speak about Father Son and Holy Spirit?
does the koran speak about Allah his word his spirit?
is his word him and his spirit him?
You say Allah is one and not like his creation yet you want describe him like a man…one man.
No one fully understands Gods nature so stop acting like you do.
running your mouth does not bother me unless of course you want to say it to my face.
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Btw it’s not ‘his’ numbers 17-18. It’s yours dumbass.
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Defendchrist, make sure not to shoot someone with that Machine gun [tactic].
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Here is some beautiful Quranic reading for your minors to meditate on:
And Mary, the daughter of Imran, who guarded her PRIVATE PARTS (farj – vagina/vulva), so We breathed INTO IT (her vagina/vulva) of Our Spirit and she established as true the Words of her Lord and His Books and she had been among the ones who are morally obligated.S. 66:12 Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar (comments within parentheses are mine)
So your god loves to talk about and breathe into women’s vaginas/vulvas.
Here are some more:
Reclining upon the couches lined with silk brocade, and the fruits of the two Gardens will be near at hand. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? Wherein both will be those (maidens) restraining their glances upon their husbands, whom no man or jinn YATMITHHUNNA (HAS OPENED THEIR HYMENS WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) before them. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? (In beauty) they are like rubies and coral… Therein (gardens) will be fair (wives) good and beautiful; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? Houris (beautiful, fair females) restrained in pavilions; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny? Whom no man or jinn YATMITHHUNNA (HAS OPENED THEIR HYMENS WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) before them. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny Reclining on green cushions and rich beautiful mattresses. S. 55:54-58, 70-76 Hilali-khan
Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and vineyards and maidens with SWELLING BREASTS, like of age, and a cup overflowing. S. 78:31-34 Arberry
Would you look at that! Jihadi thugs will be busy deflowering swelling breasted whores for all eternity in Allah’s whore house you call paradise!
These make for fascinating bed time stories I might say!
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Lol! Fatty Sam is here again. Swelling breasts indicates maturity, not fatness like yours.
Shabir Ally refuted you on this in the debate you had with him. You know, the one where he humiliated you.
Paul puts up some verses of your Bible and all you can do is quote verses from the Quran that have nothing to with the subject. Typical Christian respons. How about you actually refute him.
Now get lost Fatty Sam!
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Believingandworshipingsatan doesn’t like fat people. Well neither did his vile, wicked pedophile profit who wanted to dump believinginsatanasallah’s mother Sauda for being a fat obese slob:
BEGIN
We are told in the Mishkat Al Masabih that:
Ibn ‘Abbas said that when God’s messenger died he left nine wives, eight of whom he used to visit equally. (Bukhari and Muslim.)
‘A’isha told that when Sauda became old she said, “Messenger of God, I appoint to ‘A’isha the day you visit me.” So God’s messenger allotted two days to ‘A’isha, hers and Sauda’s. (Bukhari and Muslim.) (Mishkat Al Masabih, English translation with explanatory notes by Dr. James Robson [Sh. Muhammad Ashraf Publishers, Booksellers & Exporters, Lahore-Pakistan, Reprint 1990], Volume II, Book XIII. – Marriage, Chapter X: Sharing Visits to one’s Wives Equally, p. 686)
And:
‘Ata told that when they were with Ibn ‘Abbas at Maimuna’s funeral in Sarif he said, “This is God’s messenger’s wife, so when you lift her bier do not shake her or disturb her, but be gentle with her, for God’s messenger had nine wives with eight of whom he shared his time, but to one of them he did not allot a share.” ‘Ata said that they heard that the one to whom God’s messenger did not allot a share was Safiya who was the last of them to die. Razin said that someone other than ‘Ata declared that she was Sauda, and that is sounder. She gave her day to ‘A’isha when the messenger intended to divorce her, saying to him, “Keep me. I have given my day ‘A’isha. Perhaps I may be one of your wives in paradise.” (Ibid., p. 687)
Another modern writer unashamedly admits that:
He married Sawda, his second wife, while in Makka. However, after a while, he wanted to divorce her for certain reasons. When she heard this, she was extremely upset. She ran to him and begged, ‘O Messenger of God, I wish no worldly thing of you. I will sacrifice the time allocated to me, if you do not wish to visit me. But, please, do not deprive me of being your wife. I wish to go to the Hereafter as your wife. I care for nothing else.’ Her plea was accepted by the Messenger, who, however, never neglected visiting her, and Sawda remained one of the pure wives. (F. Gulen, The Infinite Light, Volume 1, Chapter 6: The Prophet Muhammad as husband and father, THE PROPHET AND HIS WIVES; source)
Although Gulen confirms that Muhammad intended to divorce her, and that Sauda gave up her day, he fails to provide any sources to substantiate his assertion that Muhammad continued to give her a day. His claim contradicts the consensus of the Islamic scholarly references.
The hadiths also mention that Sauda was an overweight woman:
Narrated Aisha:
Sauda (the wife of the Prophet) went out to answer the call of nature after it was made obligatory (for all the Muslims ladies) to observe the veil. She was A FAT HUGE LADY, and everybody who knew her before could recognize her. So ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab saw her and said, “O Sauda! By Allah, you cannot hide yourself from us, so think of a way by which you should not be recognized on going out. Sauda returned while Allah’s Apostle was in my house taking his supper and a bone covered with meat was in his hand. She entered and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I went out to answer the call of nature and ‘Umar said to me so-and-so.” Then Allah inspired him (the Prophet) and when the state of inspiration was over and the bone was still in his hand as he had not put in down, he said (to Sauda), “You (women) have been allowed to go out for your needs.” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 318)
What this basically implies is that Muhammad no longer felt attracted to Sauda and wanted to abandon her because she was old and “fat”. Hence, Sura 4:128-130 gives men the right to simply ignore wives whom they are no longer attracted to, denying them the pleasure of love and intimacy!
END
Now I understand that reading the Quran can cause brain damage which is why this stone worshiper thinks that the reference to the swelling breasts of these whores denotes their maturity, but this only shows bow sick and perverted his god is. After all, there is no need for your “”all knowing” satan to use breasts as a sign of maturity unless he is a pervert like you and your profit who defines women by their bodies and therefore looks at at their sexual parts in order to determine whether they are mature or not.
OUCH!
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Sam, no child would read the Quran with your translation lol.
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Lol, sam, you also seem to be forgetting when shabir ally spanked you in your debate with him, when you brought these points up 😉
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Major category error.
Christians are not obliged to imitate the actions of the biblical prophets. This teaching is not telling christians to follow its example for all time.
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‘All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.’
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And ones again defendChrist and fatty sam didn’t answer the quoted verses. Buahaha!!
DefendChrist deut 18:18 is not about jesus. He was nothing like moses and you know it. John 14 is NOT about your spook the Holy Ghost for it says that whatsoever he hears he shall speak and he wont speak from his own. God speaking on someone elses behaf, LOL!!!
Isaiah 42 doesn’t speak about jesus, get over it already. You jokers even think that isaiah 53 is about jesus.Wooow! So delusional!
1+1+1=1 according to your trinity. The trinity is a paradox! A mistery loool! Christians always respond by saying “No one truly understands God’s nature”. Such a pathetic way of dealing with your belief. God is ONE. Simple as that. But if we have to listen to you jokers wordgymnastics trying to put the three in to one that’s just sad.
It was you who started to have a big mouth. Look at ur first comment. You simple could not answer and so u started to bitch and whine like fatty Sam.
Your Jesus ordered all of the things in the OT for HUNDREDS of years!! And then comes to earth 2000 years ago and all of a sudden he is mister nice guy?
Dodging again and again. This is getting pathetic.
Muhammed is the last prophet of God and Allah will make his religion dominant over every other religion wether you (the pagans) like it or not.
If you can’t answer what was originally stated then don’t bother coming here. No one is forcing you to read it. And if u can’t politely answer then don’t pretend to be shockef when u receive comments like mine. U Christians think everyone should treat u like gods.
O and fatty Sam we are no interested to read your twists on islam, just answet the initial verses that were quoted or go swallow another cowsized burger filled with bacon.
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Dude that’s enough with the ‘fatty’ remarks thank you.
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Sorry :). Their arrogance gets to me.
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Hi Believer
DELUSIONAL???
Isaiah 53
Let me deal this one first okay please answer me this question without losing your cool.
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Muslims keep telling us along with the Jews that the servant mentioned here in the verse is Israel.
1. If this is Israel the one has the iniquity of everyone laid them then who are the sheep that have gone astray?
2. Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
When did Israel become an offering for sin?
DEUT 18:18
First lets look at the previous verses
1.CHOOSING A KING
Deu 17:15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
2.THE LEVITES.
Deu 18:1 The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
Deu 18:2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
3.THE PROPHET
Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
1. Who is the speaker and who is he speaking? Moses is speaking to Israel.
2. Were the Ishmaelites serving and worshipping the God of Moses? No just read
Psalm 83:1-6
Psa 83:2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
Psa 83:3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
Psa 83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
Psa 83:5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
Psa 83:6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
Psa 83:7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
It plainly obvious that in 1 and 2 tthe scripture is talking about men of Israel and all a sudden you Muslims are trying to change the natural flow of the text to suit your prophet.
I will come back you about Isaiah 42
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Isaiah 53:7 —> Jesus did not open his mouth?? He opened his mouth on the cross and on the way to the cross.
Matthew 27:46 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Luke 23:28 Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children.
Isaiah 53:10 —> He shall see his seed. The word ‘seed’ here is referred to a physical offspring.Jesus had no children
Isaiah 53:5 has a mistranslation :But he was wounded FOR our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
The hebrew word is mistranslated to ‘for’ while it should be translated to ‘from’. Interesting thing is that everywhere else it is properly translated to ‘from’ EXCEPT in isaiah 53. What are the chances.
Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
The kings shall shut their mouths at him?
Isaiah 49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Yes we do say that the servant represents Israel because IT SAYS SO. So the suffering of Israel implies the suffering of the Israelites.
Jesus was not a ruler like Moses. Moses ruled according to the Law. He was a governmental ruler. Jesus was not.
Most of the times btw when the NT quotes the OT it is almost always a misquotation.
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Hey
stop going around the mountain and answer the question please.
if Israel is the servant who are the sheep gone astray they cant both be Israel
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Who do you think they are?
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no different from you!
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which is??
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I was answering your comment. The text say it’s Israel. That’s cristal clear! Even Shamoun admitted this and that’s saying something. He just implied that since Jesus was of the Israelites, the prophecy must refer to him. Look I’m not trying to be rude hear but perhaps it means the obvious: those that have gone away from the Law and therefor not part of Israel (and the covenant with Jacob and Isaac). What do you propose?
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Hi Believer
The point I’m making is Isaiah is speaking about someone in the singular
v2 For HE shall grow up…HE hath no form…when we see HIM…no beauty that we should desire HIM.
v3 HE is despised…a MAN of sorrows…faces hid from HIM…we esteened HIM not.
v4 surely HE borne our griefs…we did not esteem HIM.
v5 but HE was wounded…bruised.
v6 the Lord laid on HIM the iniquity of us all
v10 thou shall make HIS soul an offering for sin
v11 my righteous servant shall justfy many…for HE shall bear their iniquities.
This is referring to the Messiah and verse 8 says quite clearly that he was cut off from the land of the living.
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DC fact: no one prior to the rise of Christianity thought it referred to a messiah.
OT scholars today do not think it refers to a messiah either.
Significant.
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Btw Paul I can’t reply to comments made on other comments. For example defendchrist can reply to your last comment but I can’t. Is there something that I have to do to fix this.
PS is it possible to edit my comments? Sometimes I’ll overlook spelling mistakes and not be able to correct them after I posted the comment.
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I think you can reply to comments, you just have to trace all the way back to the first comment and reply.
Its irritating but thats wordpress.
Regarding spelling mistakes: sorry you can’t edit them after posting, unless you ask me to do it for you. Perhaps compose your comment on another page and spell check it before posting it here.
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Hi Believer
Numbers 31:17-18
Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Numbers 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
what is the story behind all of this? you find this in Number 25:1-
Num 25:1 And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.
Num 25:2 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods.
Num 25:3 And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.
who was angry with who here in the text?
Num 25:9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.
Are you telling me that no “innocent babies” died in the plague?
The God of the bible judged his own people and people died because of sin.
AFTER God deals with his own people he then turns his attention to those people who led his people into sexual immorality and the worship of false gods
God says avenge yourselves.
Num 31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 31:2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
Then they dealt with all the men.
Numbers 31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
Num 31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
KILL EVERY MALE
Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
This is God’s decision and I don’t pretend to know everything about God’s reasons for why he does what he does, and neither does he give his reasons.
He flooded the earth (as far as we are concerned) and many died young and old and that was the actions of God.
What about Sodom and the other cities around it were destroyed with brimstone and fire does God explain his reasons for everyone going up in smoke? no he does not.
So for me my question to you is what sort of answer are you expecting to give? Are we suppose to make some excuse up for God as though he needs me to defend him.
What I can say is God does not just going around wiping people out for no apparent reason, and neither does he let his own people get off scott free.
When a Tsunami hits the shore there is no picking and choosing of young over old but people are just wiped out.
It is the same with floods and earthquakes.
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Well you tried to sugar coat it. How do you know a girl is a virgin? There was really only ONE way to find out and you know what way that was.
If He wants to wipe out nations with natural disasters then that’s His decision. Why would He order His people to do it since there is no real justification given in the OT? Btw how do you KNOW that He killed innocents when wiping out nations. Did He say that He did. If not then why not presume He didn’t. He is God isn’t He? He can make it happen so that no innocents die in the destruction of nations (like there only being wicked people in that nation).
Anyway the thing that I want to put emphasis on is the fact that you (and most Christians) will go to such lengths to try and defend such passages which you would NEVER do in a million years if there was something like that in the Quran even if it’s magnitude were equivalent to 1% of that of the verses stated above.
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The bible says because of what the Midianites did.
led Israel into fornication and the worship of false gods and Israel was judged by God and 24,000 people lost their lives even women and children.
If you read carefully what I said I wasn’t try to evade anything but I made it that if God didnt say why how can I say why he did such things.
I havent tried to defend anything.
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Hi Believer
you said…Well you tried to sugar coat it. How do you know a girl is a virgin
I wasn’t there and neither has God explained so what do you want me to do make something up?
Trying to push Christians to give an answer where God didnt a reason is a waste of time.
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Here is your answer:
First of all, there was no ‘test for virginity’ needed/used. In spite of the elaborate/miraculous one created by the later rabbis (ingenious, but altogether unnecessary) using the Urim and Thummim (!), the ‘test for virginity’ in the ANE was a simple visual one:
Was the female pre-pubescent?
Was the female wearing any attire, jewelry, or adornments required for/associated with virginity for that culture?
Was the female wearing any attire, jewelry, or adornments required for/associated with non-virginity for that culture (e.g., veil indicating married status)?
Because virginity was generally associated with legal proof for blood-inheritance issues in ancient cultures (e.g., land, property, kinship, relationships), virginity itself was often marked by some type of clothing (e.g., the robe of Tamar in 2 Sam 13) or by cosmetic means (cf. the Hindu ‘pre-marriage dot’); as was more typically non-virginal married status (e.g., veils, headwear, jewelry, or certain hairstyles). Of course, non-virginal unmarried status (e.g., temple prostitutes and secular prostitutes) were also indicated by special markings or adornments (e.g. jewelry, dress—cf. Proverbs 7.10; Hos 2.4-5).
For example, the erotic art of the ANE shows a consistent difference in hairstyles between women and sacred prostitutes:
“In fact, the physical characteristics of the women on the [erotic] plaques are totally different from those of other female representations in Mesopotamian and Syrian art. As with the clay figurines, they are frequently naked and their hair is loose—none of these traits is to be found in statues or seals that represent women…These groups [associations of cultic prostitutes] were defined by a generic name [the ‘separated ones’], while their specific names of individual associations hinted at their garments, which were particularly luxurious, or odd, their coiffure, or to their general appearance, which distinguished them from other women.” [OT:CANE:2526]
Some of these patterns varied by culture/age:
“Once married, women were not veiled in Babylonia. Legal texts imply that married women were veiled in Assyria.” [OT:DLAM:135]
“The bride was covered with a veil that the groom removed. Married women were not veiled in Babylonia but seem to have had a special headgear; legal texts, however, suggest that married women were veiled in Assyria.” [OT:CANE:489]
In other words, the process of identifying the females who were (a) not married and (b) not prostitutes, either sacred or secular, would have been relatively straightforward—at the precision level required by the event. (http://christianthinktank.com/midian.html)
Now ask the stone kisser if he is ok with his women prostituting profit treating women as whores in the guise of muta, and raping captive women even in situations where the husbands were still alive. And ask him to prove to you that his filthy book of porn prohibits sleeping with premature minors.
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“I wasn’t there and neither has God explained so what do you want me to do make something up?”
You don’t need to be there to know it. The only way to know it was by testing them out. I’m sure u know what that means.
“The bible says because of what the Midianites did.
led Israel into fornication and the worship of false gods and Israel was judged by God and 24,000 people lost their lives even women and children.”
Well that’s a nice way to justify many things isn’t it? That’s not an answer. You have the annihilation of nations done by the people that He himself ordered and your God can’t even give a just excuse. That’s why people have used it soooo many times throughout the past as a justification for wiping out countless of people. Why should I have high expectations then about anything else that he says? What do children have to do with it? God (and therefor so did Jesus) even told them to kill another nation (men, women, children and all the animals!!!) for what the Amalekites did 300 years earlier. Is that justice?
Btw are you going to answer the points I raised concerning Isaiah 53, etc in one of my previous comments?
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Hi Believer
You obviously didnt read what the bible says or what I said.
1. God judged Israel for their sin where we read that 24,000 lost their lives in a plague.
2. God judged the Midianites by using Israel.
3. The destroying of nations? I think you Muslims need to look at yourselves.
Muslims were burning down churches throughout north africa and Constantinople for centuries by killing raping and taking over cities.
in the 10th century you got a response and we see the first crusade.
just like when Israel and Judah were defeated and taken into by the Babylonians and the Assyrians.
In all of this the innocent died.
Your interest in wanting to know how you tell if a young lady is virgin or not is quite troubling why would you want to know that…thats pervy.
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sam, if only you could reduce the word count in your comments, i would honestly start reading them all.
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yes indeed!
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DC
The early Islamic Movement liberated people from many long years under Christian tyranny, oppression, and imperial dictatorship at the hands of Byzantine Christian Rule who themselves had destroyed nations, killed, raped and enslaved the populace..
Presumably once freed from the shackles of Christian rule by Islam, there may have been some vengeance reprisals by the local people in each region directed at those deemed responsible for many years of Oppression under the imperial boot of Christianity.
However, this was not something actually condoned by Islam itself, which encouraged tolerance and coexistence.
The first Crusade, and those after where nothing more than religiously sanctioned land theft and shameless power grabs, aimed at destroying nations and the religions of others. More to be ashamed of then proud.
So if anyone needs to take a long look in the mirror and repent of past sins, it is Christianity moreso than Islam.
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Hi Ibn Issam
In no way a do I condone or even pretend there have never been any shocking things done in the name of Christianity, but my point is Muslims need to stop acting like they had this wonderful peaceful past.
No one just lets people walk into their countries. So are you saying that Muslims have never raped and killed everything in sight? if so you guys are lying through your teeth.
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Hi Ibn Issam
Its the same question I dealt with ago Muslims are questioning the way God took people out of the earth.
1. in the flood were women and children killed and who is it that brought it?
2. in Sodom and Gormorrah were women and children killed and who was it that brought down the fire?
3. The Amalekites and others were famous for sacrificing their babies to the false god Molech who is to blame for that?
4. I mentioned than once that God punished the Jews for their sin with Midianite women and worship of gods we know 24,000 died I would say men wonen and children
5. And Numbers 31:17-18 you dont like the way things were done…kill all the boys and women that slept with man.
6. Did God stop the Babylonians and Assyrians who killed Jews men women and children…no.
God is bringing judgement to the people through his people.
That is exactly what Muslims did in the name of your god.
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DC
Like you, I in no way condone or even pretend there have never been any shocking things done in the name of Islam. But my point is that Christians should stop throwing every historical misdeed in our faces, misportraying Islam in order to distract & deflect from legitimate critcism of certain Biblical verses.
We know that there were atrocities committed by Jews, Christians & Muslims at different times in history. But there were also times when each religion including Islam, experienced a “wonderful peaceful past.” Christians need to stop acting as if their own history is morally superior to everyone else’s history.
No one is, “lying through your teeth” – Muslims have no problems dealing with history. But it seems that Christians are the ones who insist on a lopsided & biased misportrayal of Islamic history, and that is what we take issue with.
So instead of using history as an excuse to attack Islam why don’t you deal with the issue that Believer raised in his comment:
“God (and therefore so did Jesus) even told them to kill another nation (men, women, children and all the animals!!!) for what the Amalekites did 300 years earlier. Is that justice.”
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God defines justice.
What muslims fail to comprehend is that comparing God’s justice and actions in the Bible- as a defence or parallel to defend Muhammad- is not only shirk, but apples and oranges.
Where did Allah command Muhammad to raid caravans? Where did Allah command Muhammad to kill those that mocked him? Where did Allah command Muhammad to marry a 6 year old girl?
You can’t defend a man by appeal to God- that is shirk!
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Paulus,
I am not surprised that you defending utter annihilation and genocide against enemies as sanctioned in your Bible.
When the man we are talking about is God’s own Prophet and Messenger, then we can defend him by appealing to God, who is not the author of confusion. When God is in line with what someone would already do or believe based on reason, no fallacy is committed.
For everything you accusal or misportrayal about Prophet Muhammad (sws) there is a reasonable answer or explanation:
“….raid caravans?” – God gave the command for Muslims to defend themselves against physical and economic warfare directed against them.
“…kill those that mocked him?” – How the Prophet Muhammad Dealt with Insults
https://www.onfaith.co/onfaith/2015/01/08/how-the-prophet-muhammad-dealt-with-insults/35723
“….marry a 6 year old girl?” – She was actually 9 or possibly even older – The Bible condones marriages to young girls as well, will you condemn your own prophets? Rebecca married to Isaac at age 3.
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/10/26/the-age-of-rebecca-when-she-married-isaac-biblical-perceptive/
The Irony is that Paulus has no problem with appealing to God in defense of Jesus whom he understands to be the Greco Roman Man-God himself – blatant paganism and unrepentant shirk.
If there is any fallacy or shirk here, it is that of the Trinity.
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my comment is awaiting release on your blog, can you approve it “defend christ” ?
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Hi Robert2017blog
I just got home I will approve when I settled
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they are still not posted.
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Sam if there is any ‘scripture’ that is pornographic, then it’s the Bible. Incest, sex between 2 people given in full detail. Noah having over 1000 wives/concubines (and the concubine leading him to idolatry).
Everything that you people bring up, 100 times more significant in magnitude is found in the Bible. You’re a joke Uncle Sam. Get a life already.
“They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah refuses except to perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.” To bad you wont be able to stop the truth with your paganism he.
Poor little panda.
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Hi Believer
Where do you read a text where there pornographic detail “He lay with her” how is that pornographic?
“He took her and lay with her” where’s the porno?
There are no sexual details given in the bible to do with sex “Adam knew his wife” is that porno.
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DC,
The filth and Porn in the Bible provide yet more evidence that it is a book written by fallible men, and not from the inspiration of God.
Ezekiel 23 is a particularly dirty chapter in the Bible:
Here is an excerpt:
“When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt and lusted after her lovers there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed your young breasts.” (Ezekiel 23:18-21)
Men were hung like donkeys and boobs were ripe for fondling? How awful.
If that is not enough for you there is this:
http://www.alternet.org/8-freakiest-sex-things-bible
Or this:
Lots incest with his own daughters Gen. 19:31-35
We can go on……do you really want your children reading such things. I prefer the Qur’an which is free of such filth and porn.
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Hi Ibn Issam
you know you are talking rubbish leaning on the scriptures trying to make what are not.
The text in Ezekiel is dealing with Israel and Judah and the text mentions the Assyrians and the Babylonians and Chaldeans.
We know that Israel and Judah were conquered by these people and went into captivity.
This is spoken of in a poetic way by Ezekiel but if you want to say its porn thats your choice.
if you want to go to your Hadith then we can compare and see
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“….whose members (male appendage) were like those of donkeys, and whose issue (sperm ejaculate) was like that of horses.”
Sounds like the fallible human authors of the Bible had a penchant for writing gay bestiality porn references in their Bible. Only lonely, desperate, sick and apparently easily aroused fallible men would write such disgusting filthy trash…….what is worse is that they ascribe such to God……Astaghfirallah!!!
I will keep my pure and clean Qur’an thank you!!
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DefendChrist,
I see you’re still up to your old tricks!
Which nations did the Muslims “destroy”? I would love to hear some examples. I don’t think that burning a few churches (which no doubt did occur in some cases over the course of hundreds of years of Muslim domination) is akin to genocide and the murder of women, children and infants.
In contrast, your Bible says that the Israelites literally destroyed many nations in Canaan. They literally killed women, children and even babies! I love to see you hypocrites squirm at the uncomfortable facts about your Bible and how you always try to weasel your way out by deflecting to Islam and its alleged violence against other nations.
Oh and by the way, silly boy, if the First Crusade was a Christian response to centuries of alleged Muslim persecution, then why didn’t they respond much earlier? Why did it take them more than 2 centuries to finally respond? Oh and let’s not forget that on their way to Jerusalem, the crusaders massacred Jews, Muslims and any heretical Christians along the way. But nice try in defending the violence inspired by your Christian brethren!
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Hi Faiz
You said…Oh and by the way, silly boy, if the First Crusade was a Christian response to centuries of alleged Muslim persecution, then why didn’t they respond much earlier?
Let me explain Jesus didn’t send his people out to war and kill, you didn’t see Jesus do anything like that.
The Muslims were wiping up Christians and burning their buildings.
It was the Roman Catholic Church that decided to go against the Muslims who were venturing into Spain and France and many other places.
Israelites and Christians it’s funny how you want to lay claim to being apart of Abraham, and reject anything negative to do with the history back then.
We are hypocrites why? Nobody trying to hide from the things that happened in the bible it is a part of human history…which you belong to.
“Uncomfortable facts” yeah it’s called reality!
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DC,
The Crusades had more to do with violent biblical passages which encourage genocide, annihilation of nations, killing and slaying of enemies, wielding the righteous sword against the heathens, religiously sanctioned land theft and shameless power grabs, aimed at destroying nations and the religions of others. etc. What is irritating is that you seem think that the Crusaders were just a bunch of innocent victims? Poor babies.
* Jesus didn’t send his people to war and Kill? These verses say the opposite:
* But those mine enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring them hither and slay them before me.’ Luke 19:27
* “God (and therefore so did Jesus) even told them to kill another nation (men, women, children and all the animals!!!) for what the Amalekites did 300 years earlier. Is that justice.”
Or how about the three Biblical “VERSES OF THE SWORD”:
* Then said He unto them, “But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it and likewise his pack; and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22:36
* Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a SWORD. Matt. 10:34
* And the remnant were slain with the SWORD of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Rev. 19:21
So when you accuse Muslims of violence, Jihad, etc. and then try to white wash Christian history as being nothing more than a response to Muslim aggression……when there are centuries of Byzantine Christian Imperial oppression and tyranny that you fail recall, not to mention plenty of offensive and aggressive verses in the Bible that call for unjust aggression towards non-Christians, well then………
……don’t be surprised when we call you out as being hypocrites.
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Hi Ibn Issam
you seriously don’t understand the bible why are you quoting Luke 19:27
1. Jesus is giving them a parable.
2. Are you saying is the character in the story?
who is the parable referring to? Its the Jews right.
Are you saying and admitting to the fact that Jesus is God who sent his servants and they were rejected?
And then you go Matthew 10:34 this is the sword of separation not everyone will be happy family following Jesus.
this is not talking about killing people this is about serving and following Jesus with family opposition.
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DC,
Luke 19:27 is pretty graphic “Slay them before me.” Matt. 10:34 is very clear also “I came not to send peace, but a SWORD.” You may interpret as a “Sword of separation” but it can also be interpreted as a “Sword of Vengeance.”
If the Qur’an contained these verses, we would never hear the end of it!!
But nice try attempting to soften those verses.
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DC
I notice also that you did not deal with or Luke 22:36. Why would Jesus ask his followers to purchase a sword, unless he intended for them to use it in the act of physical violence? And then there is Rev. 19:21, which depicts Jesus killing his enemies in the end times. Not to mention once again, Num 31:17-18.
Will you sugar coat those verses as well?
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Qur’an and Bible contrasted.
Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Bible, Numbers, 31:17-18)
And [recall] when We saved your forefathers from the people of Pharaoh, who afflicted you with the worst torment, slaughtering your [newborn] sons and keeping your females alive. And in that was a great trial from your Lord. (Qur’an, Surah 2, Verse 39)
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Mohsin
No Mislims have ever killed any women and children in the whole of human history.
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DC,
A good Christian like you should be fair, that is not what Mohsin implied.
Try to deal with the comparative verses which he cited.
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More contrast between Bible and Qur’an
“Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.” (Bible, Numbers, 31:17-18)
“Indeed, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people into factions, oppressing a sector among them, slaughtering their [newborn] sons and keeping their females alive. Indeed, he was of the corrupters.” (Qur’an, 28:4)
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Hi Robert2017blog
If you want to swear go down the street to the nightclubs and bars, and if you are replying me don’t swear as I have said others it’s easy to talk tough on a blog.
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I don’t know what was said elsewhere, but I agree with DC that foul language is unbecoming of anyone who claims to be a person of faith. Especially for anyone who is Muslim foul language is Haraam, and we should know better. Try to deal with the issues and leave it at that.
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DC,
It’s actually NOT a part of history! Archaeological studies have shown that the Biblical stories are just that…stories. You might want to read “The Bible Unearthed”.
But the point is that you hypocrites try to demonize Muslims for alleged atrocities (and you will notice that I never denied that some Muslims have persecuted Christians) while trying to defend the atrocities in the Bible. You can’t have it both ways. Either you condemn genocide altogether or you accept it in all situations. But even then, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. For you see, even though there have been atrocities committed by some Muslims, NOTHING these people may have done compares to the sickening genocide your Bible describes and which you try to defend. So yeah, these uncomfortable stories make you squirm and change topics. But the irony is that they probably never even happened! They are just made up stories by some anonymous Israelites who just wanted thump their chests!
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