Hi there,
Here’s a poem I wrote this morning. Please don’;t get petty and start a meaningless argument about who took what away from whom, there are enough people doing that already. For one minute, let’s all hold hands and agree that we love Jerusalem
We heard your tales
We sang your songs
We drew your portrait
We never forgot
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Categories: Islam
Blogging Theology 
“Please don’;t get petty and start a meaningless argument” What arrogance
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Well done Mozer most secularists don’t understand the value of Jerusalem .On the outside it just looks like an old city in the Middle East. However, the prophetic events that have taken place there have made Jews, Christians, and Muslims fall in the love with the city. It is truly a blessed land.
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“Please don’t get petty and start a meaningless argument”
What does the Oppressor care for the arguments of the weak and oppressed.
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Mozer,
Don’t assume that a poorly written poem will convince us to forget 50 years of brutal occupation, dispossession and subjugation…..
I offer some constructive commentary on your poem in parenthesis below:
We heard your (Palestinian) tales
We sang your (Arab) songs
We drew your (Muslim) portrait
We never forgot…..(really?)
We loved (coveted) you for your beauty
Your splendor (Masjid Al-Aqsa)
Your grace (and then we occupied you and built an ugly wall)
Nay, you don’t posses (Non-Jews are dispossessed in the Israeli apartheid state)
No massive bridges (Did you forget Chords Bridge?)
No European alps or beaches (ok, I’ll give you that one)
No music or culture (what about Palestinian/Arab music and culture?)
No monuments to victories (RU forgetting Ammunition Hill monument to Zionist victory in 6 day war? Yad vashem?)
No natural greenery (to perpetuate the myth that, “Israel made the desert bloom.”)
No statues or arts (hard to believe)
No majestic palaces (does that include illegal colonialist settlements? Knesset? Or Netanyahu’s palatial residence at Beit Aghion?)
We were seduced by (and decided to steal…)
your narrow dirt roads (which we paved over and built illegal settlements on)
Your donkey and camel (which we replaced with miserable refugee prison camps)
Your barefoot children (now exiled and suffering in Gaza)
Your tragic desolation (made worse by uprooting thousands of olive trees)
Your (Palestinian) ruins
Your (Arab) story…(which we revised as a Jewish story)
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Mozer,
I generally appreciate your theological commentary and often even agree with you. As we have noted before on this blog, there are many commonalities between Judaism and Islam.
While I can appreciate the sentiment and wish to “hold hands and agree that we love Jerusalem” I must say that this is easier for the occupier and usurper to say, than for the subjugated and oppressed.
The first step towards holding hands and coming together is for Israel and the Jewish people to recognize, admit and make amends for the crimes of oppression, theft, dispossession, tyranny, subjugation, humiliation, and torment that they have visited upon the indigenous Palestinian population. Once Israel and the Jewish faith can do that, and take action to stop the continuation of such injustices………
……..then we can truly talk about holding hands and come together in love, while standing on equal grounds.
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I’m not an oppressor. I’m living in a land where the Quran (17:104) says Moses told me to live. There’s no need to revise history. My Palestinian neighbors were offered almost 50 percent of this entire land [including the Jews most holiest sites] and their leaders refused time and again…
In the current state I don’t think anyone in the right mind would recommend any power given to Hamas [which will definitely suppress their brothers more than the Israelis do]
So as long as there’s a way to ensure that the West Bank won’t be Gaza 2.0 nothing will change. I’m not saying this as a person in control, I’m saying this as someone who really wants peace, you know me a little, I’m not a bigot. I fully acknowledge Palestinian rights to this Land, but if they won’t acknowledge mine it is hard to deal with them. So I agree, let’s sit down…
BTW, you know that I can rewrite the poem with the same parenthesis as written by a Jew 200 years before your prophet was born… so C’mon…
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“I’m not a bigot.” From a self confessed zionist.
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Mozer,
Like most Israeli’s, you seem to have a mental disconnect. Let me reminded you that you are a Zionist settler living on colonized and occupied land, I think that qualifies you as an oppressor, or at the very least someone who benefits from an apartheid system which engages in the oppression of other people.
It seems a little hypocritical to say that you want peace and that you are not a bigot, while at the same time you are benefitting from the blatant belligerence and unabashed racism that is inherent in racist Zionist system and Occupation.
Your remark about Hamas, seems to reveal a deep down bigoted opinion toward Palestinian self-determination.
In regard to West bank and Gaza 2.0, you seem to forget that it was Israels original sin of usurpation and occupation that created the conditions for Gaza 1.0. It is also easy to say that you “fully acknowledge Palestinian rights to this Land” when you can be sure that the Zionist state does not.
Words are cheap.
Keep telling yourself that the Palestinians refused 50% if the land if that eases your conscious and makes you feel better about consenting to the oppression and occupation of others while reaping the benefits of living on stolen land. But if someone stole your house, and offered you 50% of it back with the caveat that in reality it would still be occupied and owned by a cruel overlord, while you are confined to living in the toilet, would you accept such an offer?
The myth of the “generous offer”
http://fair.org/extra/the-myth-of-the-generous-offer/
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You don’t acknowledge that Jews have always lived here just as Palestinians did. And you fail to acknowledge that Palestinians NEVER had sovereignty over this land, while your holy book clearly states that the Jews did. You can blame all the Palestinian problems on the Jews which is sort of expected, and while your at it don’t forget to blame the suffering of Syria Afghanistan Sudan and other civil wars on the Zionists
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Mozer,
There is no need to put words in my mouth. What gave you the idea that I do not acknowledge that Jews lived in Palestine as well as the fore fathers of the Palestinans? The Palestinians take their name from the Philistines, and if you have learned anything about Arabic from your oppressed neighbors, the Palestinians to this day still call themselves “al-Filiistini”……..and yes they had Sovereignty over the land even BEFORE the Jews according to YOUR scripture.
Your cheap and transparent attempt to play the anti-semite card, by insinuating that I blame all problems on Jews is patently false….and expected.
Sad.
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I’m not putting words in your mouth. the way you translated my [poorly written] poem and by continuously calling me a settler, you are denying my rights to inhabit this land.
I didn’t play the antisemite card and as far as i’m concerned you don’t seem to be anti simetic. I was just saying that had the Palestinian conflict been the only bloody civil war between arab brothers you can put the whole weight on us. But it’s clearly not the case. there seems to be a trend in the middle east of oppressing each other [Egypt, Yemen, which I didn’t mention earlier]
Lastly the ‘Palestinian’ population grew more than tenfold in the years before the establishment of Israel, so most of the ‘Palestinians’ [including Arafat] are just refugees who’s grandparents never lived in Palestine.
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Mozer,
Under the current situation, at this point, I don’t deny the Jews a right to live in the land, what I deny is their arrogant, self-assumed “right” to unilaterally impose their own settler colonialist will upon an occupied and oppressed population living under apartheid standards, while unjustly denying the same equal rights to the Arab Palestinian people to peacefully and freely live and thrive in the land of their own ancestors. As I alluded to previously, if Jews wish to end the conflict by establishing true equal rights and real justice for all in Palestine/israel they are welcome as far as I am concerned, and I think many Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians, and even Arab Christians will agree with me on that. But it is hard to support someone’s right to live and inhabit a land that they are actively and unremorsefully occupying through the means of military might, force and sheer brutality while ruling with racist injustice towards anyone who is non-Jewish.
In regard to Arabs oppressing each other, you again make a somewhat bigoted remark, as if Arabs prefer oppression. The Arab Spring should have put an end to that assumption in your mind. The current oppression in various Arab countries can be traced back to European colonialism and its consequences. I do not have the time to explain it all here, but read some history books…preferably without a Zionist western imperialist slant.
It’s funny how you question Palestinian ancestry, when we know that the majority of Ashkenazi Jews as well as many other Jews NEVER had any real Semitic ancestry. So don’t act like you are descended from the original tribe with all the rights that you think that entails. Keep in mind that Palestinians and their ancestors NEVER gave up or left the land and never will inshallah.
Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html
The Invention of the Jewish People ~ Shlomo Sand
“Exploding the myth that there was a forced Jewish exile in the first century at the hands of the Romans, Israeli historian Shlomo Sand argues that most modern Jews descend from converts, whose native lands were scattered across the Middle East and Eastern Europe.”
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Mozer,
“…..you are denying my rights to inhabit this land.”
I stand by my previous comments, but just for the sake of argument,…..
If someone invades my house, and unjustly and forcibly expels me from my own home, while telling me that he has a “right” to live in my house, do I not have a right to disagree with such injustice and deny his self-assumed right?
I’m sure you would agree if the tables were turned.
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“You don’t acknowledge that Jews have always lived here just as Palestinians did.”
You did not. You moved there from cozy US by your own will.
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I was merely following the Muslim prophet who gave me rights to this land…
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Iraeli occupation is violation of international law. Leave your religious fundamentalist ideology out of this.
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Mozer,
“I’m living in a land where the Quran (17:104) says Moses told me to live.”
The Ayat you referenced (17:104) is time sensitive, when read in light of 17:7 it becomes clear that the context of the verse is about to the destruction of the temple in AD 70.
There is no verse in the Qur’an that gives license to the Jews to occupy the land indefinitely or oppress anyone, anywhere. It is sad that Zionists Jews attempt to legitimize such injustices by twisting Qur’anic scripture along with their own.
Answering Christianity on 17:104
http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran17_104.htm
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The Muslims took it by force and lost it by force. They have nothing to complain about.
Being an “oppressed” cry baby though keeps the money flowing.
He tried to make Mozer feel ashamed for something that Muslims have been doing for 1400 year. Conquering others. LOL the Jews gave them payback and Muslims can’t take it.
It’s nice to see some people who fought back and don’t play the dhimmi.
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Well said, Ibn Issam!!!!!!
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“I don’t deny the Jews a right to live in the land, what I deny is their arrogant, self-assumed “right” to unilaterally impose their own settler colonialist will upon an occupied and oppressed population living under apartheid standards”
This is the real issue. Muslims can’t tolerate having the kaffir in power. They are happy for the jews to be there, as long as the Muslims are in power.
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Oh Cerberus, once a mook, always a mook…
The “real issue” is that Israel stole land from the Palestinians and continues to oppress them today. If you were not a pathetic Gentile dog, you would be outraged by that. But alas, like most Christian zionists, you conveniently overlook the facts in order to hate on Islam.
Then again, its not surprising. I mean you do make excuses for Biblical genocide. By the way, was that right or wrong? 😉
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It is not so much a matter of religion as it is a matter of international law.
“Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination”
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379
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Lol… that UN where quadafi was in the human rights council hahaha
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If the UN is such a joke then why is Israel trying to gain a seat on the Security Council?
Israel vs. the United Nations: The Nikki Haley Doctrine ~ Ramzy Baroud
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/06/21/israel-vs-united-nations-nikki-haley-doctrine#
My guess is that it is in order to block any attempt at criticizing the Israeli apartheid state policies and the ongoing brutal Occupation, by sidelining the UN and international law and order, and blocking any further UN Security Council Resolutions which might be critical of Israel for violations of U.N. Security Council resolutions, the U.N. Charter, the Geneva Conventions, international terrorism, or other violations of international law.
Here is a list of 80 Resolutions that Israel ignores, or violates on a daily basis:
Rogue State: Israeli Violations of U.N. Security Council Resolutions
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/01/27/rogue-state-israeli-violations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/
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Come on, if there’s an organization that has power and is bashing you say and night of course you’ll want to have a say and stop some of their resolutions. It’s not a joke in the sense of it’s power rather ethically. I think we can both agree that having Putin and China (I think Syria was there too) lecturing anyone about human rights is laughable. Even if they may be right. So the human rights council is a bunch of morally bankrupt countries lecturing mainly Israel on how to go about business… that’s the joke.
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Excellent
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The Hasbara claim that the UN only censures Israel is patently false, there are many other issues on the agenda that have nothing to do with Israel. The HR Council is made up of 47 states, not just the ones you mentioned. When a country like Israel has been actively violating human rights, and conducting an Occupation for more than 50 years, it makes sense to have that country on the HR Agenda and to pass resolutions condemning such rogue behavior. In fact, any country that has occupied and oppressed another for so long should also remain an item on the international agenda.
It is clear that Israel is no less morally bankrupt than any other country you may point the finger at. Israel just has better Public Relations, and enjoys the powerful protection of big brother USA.
The militaristic oppressor of the weak and defenseless, is crying about being held accountable by international law and order.
The bully is complaining of being bullied – and THAT is the real joke.
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If the security council issued tens of more resolutions against Israel than agains North Korea Syria Russia and Sudan it delegitimizes that organization.
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It is easy to censure governments that are already considered villains in the public mind. While it takes more resolve and strength to stand up firmly against a powerful bully that often throws its weight around to get what it wants..Otherwise the UN is just an arm, or tool, of a powerful interest group..
That it has issued resolutions despite the interests of the US/Israel powers, actually legitimizes the UN organization.
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“If the security council issued tens of more resolutions against Israel than agains North Korea Syria Russia and Sudan it delegitimizes that organization.”
Erm, no, it actually delegitimizes Israels illegal actions.
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“I was merely following the Muslim prophet who gave me rights to this land…”
Mohammed claimed the right of conquest. The Jews should have the same right should they not? Equal rights for all I say.
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You religious jihadist? Apply religious law instead of international law in the 21st century? Moron.
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A Muslim lecturing me about applying religious law instead of international law. Nothing more ironic than that.
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Your double standard bigotry really sucks. Throwing your western-supreme-democratic-based-on-jewish-christian-tradition-human-rights-polemics under the bus.
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“western-supreme-democratic-based-on-jewish-christian-tradition-human-rights-polemics”
I don’t endorse any human political system 100%. There are weaknesses in all forms of human government.
Obviously as a Christian I prefer some form of government with laws based on the bible, from the old and new testament.
Your feigned affection for international law stops wherever it disagrees with sharia, and the interests of the ummah, no doubt.
I wonder what would happen if we applied current international law to the original Islamic conquests? Would they come away unscathed? I doubt it.
Joshua and Moses would also be condemned by current international law.
Your double standard bigotry really sucks, as someone already mentioned.
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“Obviously as a Christian I prefer some form of government with laws based on the bible, from the old and new testament.” Lol. Nutcase
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Mozer G.
Not all Jews are Zionist. Most Jews are not Zionists. We have Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Muslims. Most Zionist are not Jews but most Zionists are Evangelical Christians. They want Armaggeddon.
Zionist beats and torture Jews who do not support Israel occupation. So my friend Mozer G, don’t come here and tell us that all Jews support Israel occupation through using phosphorous poison on Palestinian people. It is inhumane and against Judaism.
Palestinians never left their land and the will never ever do that by the grace of God, no matter any phosphorous poison poured on them.
Interview Palestinian people and you will find out that one will have a Muslim father, Jewish mother and a Christian brother. Yes, the same people but get converted to 3 different religions as time goes on but the same people. Zionism tried to separate the same people-Palestinians.
Thanks.
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Every occupier has to leave the land sometime for the next occupier. History teaches this. Everyone has to have his turn at occupying. Only the Muslims don’t want to play. They want their occupation to be permanent. Who can blame them?
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Lol Ignoramus, so you’re okay with the Muslims kicking out the Byzantines from Jerusalem?
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Al Quds/Jerusalem yesterday!
“They say, “Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided.” Say, “Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists.
Say, [O believers], “We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him.”
So if they believe in the same as you believe in, then they have been [rightly] guided; but if they turn away, they are only in dissension, and Allah will be sufficient for you against them. And He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
[And say, “Ours is] the religion of Allah . And who is better than Allah in [ordaining] religion? And we are worshippers of Him.”
Say, [O Muhammad], “Do you argue with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. And we are sincere [in deed and intention] to Him.”
Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, “Are you more knowing or is Allah ?” And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah ? And Allah is not unaware of what you do.”
QT 2:135-139
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Mozer said
“I’m living in a land where the Quran (17:104) says Moses told me to live”
If your justification for this occupation is a religious one, then we say the same thing by substantiating that from your own bible!
“for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean)
lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you.”
Last year It think, there was a marching for gays in in Jerusalem! No Mozer, we will not allow you to turn Jerusalem for another NY! It has nothing to do with western culture !
“We wrote in the Psalms, as We did in [earlier] Scripture: ‘My righteous servants will inherit the earth.”
QT 21:105
The most righteous people in time of Moses peace be upon him said this, whom God delivered by a great miracle in front of their eyes
“They said, “O Moses, indeed we will not enter it, ever, as long as they are within it; so go, you and your Lord, and fight. Indeed, we are remaining right here.”
[Moses] said, “My Lord, indeed I do not possess except myself and my brother, so part us from the defiantly disobedient people.” !!! QT 5
The companions of the prophet ﷺ said to him :
In Sahih Bukhari Abdullah ibn Masud said
“I witnessed Al-Miqdad bin Al-Aswad in a scene which would have been dearer to me than anything had I been the hero of that scene. He (i.e. Al-Miqdad) came to the Prophet (ﷺ) while the Prophet (ﷺ) was urging the Muslims to fight with the pagans. Al-Miqdad said, “We will not say as the People of Moses said: Go you and your Lord and fight you two. (5.27). But we shall fight on your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.” I saw the face of the Prophet (ﷺ) getting bright with happiness, for that saying delighted him.”
Muslims have been ruling that holy land & worshipping the God of our Father Abraham more than jews and christians combined.
If your justification for the occupation is a secular one as almost all zionists including the leaders who established that foreign country & foreign political situation, then the problem would be even bigger, and in fact it’s already refuted.
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“Lol Ignoramus, so you’re okay with the Muslims kicking out the Byzantines from Jerusalem?”
God ordains the rise and fall of all earthly temporal kingdoms so who am I to argue with him?
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whatever
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Your god ordained the killing of children too, so in wouldn’t use that as an excuse! 😉
Meanwhile, when Allah (swt) ordained that the Muslims conquered Jerusalem, He ensured that they be just. That’s why the Muslims allowed the Jews to settle in Jerusalem for the first time in 500 years. Your Byzantine brethren certainly didn’t allow them such a kindness!
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“Muslims have been ruling that holy land & worshipping the God of our Father Abraham more than jews and christians combined. ”
They took it by force and they lost it by force. So it must have been the will of God for them to lose it. Or else why did God allow the Arabs to be defeated in all their attempts to take the land back by war?
War settles the issue de facto. Anyone who chooses to use war to decide their claim to ownership, as the Arabs did, must accept the outcome of the battle which is thus the divine ruling on the matter.
Arabs are not the best losers as we know. Whatever happened to the age of chivalry?
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“The age of chivalry”?
Oh, you mean the age where crusaders would kill the men, women and children of a conquered city, like the hordes of the mangod? “Kill them all and let God sort them out”? Something like that?
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All Muslims are not terrorists and many of us are deeply troubled by the immorality of ISIS and such….
likewise, there are Jews that are troubled by the immorality of Zionism and what it does to the soul of Judaism—some blogs by such Jews are—
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/writingfromtheedge/2017/04/zionism-and-the-delegitimisation-of-passover-2/
https://www.richardsilverstein.com/
http://mondoweiss.net/
http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2017/06/23/the-four-letter-word/#more-63783
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Yes good points and important to remember!
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http://vridar.org/2017/05/26/we-do-not-believe-in-god-but-he-nonetheless-promised-us-palestine/
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Good article!
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