The fairy tale bullshit is in your religion. Show some historical evidence that Jews would get another Jew crucified HOURS BEFORE HIGH HOLY DAY AND THEN have him taken down BECAUSE OF HIGH HOLY DAY. Why would they even get him PINNED KNOWING FULL WELL THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE him down AGAIN HOURS B4 high holy day
FAIZ WILL KNOW what I’m talking about
Faiz , I hope in future you do an article exposing fairy tale in dcs pagan book
Brother Eric and Bro Paul could you please critique the following, I am interested in an honest dialogue, Allah Bless!
I would propose that believers need not speculate in a vacuum; rather, they can read Gen 1:26-27 in the context of…
(a) 1 Corinthians 8:6, which treats the Father is our Creator,
(b) John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, which allude to the Son as our Creator, and
(c) Job 33:4, Psalms 104:30, Psalm 33:6, which can be understood as alluding to the Holy Spirit as our Creator, and
(d) Isaiah 44:24, which has God acting alone in creation.
On such a view, there are three Persons who take part in creation (precisely the three Persons mentioned in the veritable Christian basmala of Matthew 28:19), and yet God acts alone in creation. In my view, the best reconciliation of those points would be precisely that proposed by the churches which have existed from antiquity unto today (whether they be Catholic, Orthodox, or Miaphysite): that the one God encompasses three Persons. Moreover, as I alluded to above, it can be seen as providing explanatory scope to the shifts from plural to singular in Genesis 1:26-27 (and would lead at least some believers in the Bible to being more open to the possibility that the passage is referring to the Trinity).
// In my view, the best reconciliation of those points would be precisely that proposed by the churches which have existed from antiquity unto today (whether they be Catholic, Orthodox, or Miaphysite): that the one God encompasses three Persons.//
The dilemma is why don’t the Christians have a quadrinity instead of a trinity as obviously for a argument sake there could be a 4th aspect contributing to the creation that is “the hand” יָד yad as in Isa 66:2 or even multity ( instead of trinity as the “army of God” יְהוָ֨ה צְבָאֹ֜ות Hashem seba’ot in Isa 37:16 also contribute in the creation of heaven and earth (all use the same verb עָשָׂה asah) the same act of creation as the “spirit”.
This is why we muslim don’t fell into trap of shirk into believing that God have multiple independent entities or personas worthy of worship. Just because the scripture also mentions ‘the Hand of the Lord’ and ‘the Army of the Lord’, we don’t add personas of gods call Hand and Armies as a separate entities.
Here is the verse וְר֧וּחַיְיָ֛סָ֖רָהמֵעִ֣םשָׁא֑וּלוּבִֽעֲתַ֥תּוּרֽוּחַ־רָעָ֖המֵאֵ֥תיְיָֽ
This can be translated as
“Now Hashem’s Presence (ruaḥ) had deserted Sha’ul and moods (ruaḥ) of sadness from Hashem kept tormenting him”
As a muslim we tend to see this ruah ra’ah not as a spiritual entity, an “evil spirit” like most of christian translations did but rather a condition created by God. But yes it is interesting if we follow trinitarian logic, since on the phrase ‘The evil spirit of the Lord’ could be another persona of god another “who”, this exactly how the mess of trinitarianism started.
Yahweh said He alone and only He is God. Alone, only and no one else means there is no any other person except the one God. We in Semitic languages means plural We. Allah says we in the Quran and no sane Arab will argue it means more than one God.
Proof of God being one, only and alone and no one else, from the Bible. By the way there is no single “God is 3 persons in 1” in the bible.
“there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
“Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
“You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
“O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
Jesus said the only true God sent him, so Jesus cannot be God but was sent by the only true God. According to Jesus.
John 17:3
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent
A missionary could not prove Trinity or 3 persons 1 God in the Bible, but it is clear in so many places in the Bible, God is one, only and alone and none else. None means no person and nothing else including Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is none as well when the Bible said Yahweh is alone and the only God and none else.
Hi Heathcliff
Please show some 1st century evidence outside of the Koran that it didn’t happen. And secondly I would like to know why there is not one perfect human Muslim on the earth?
You obviously dont believe that in Adam all die well maybe you can explain from scripture why humans die.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Is this scripture explaining a truth about human or not?
Um, humans die because our bodies are finite. It’s the natural order of things. Our bodies are not spirits. They are flesh and bone, blood and chemicals. It’s pretty obvious why humans die, like every other living thing. Why do animals die? Why do plants die? Do they also die because of Adam? Come on…
”
Please show some 1st century evidence outside of the Koran that it didn’t happen”
robert m price:
quote:
And on top of that, the very idea that the crucifixion would have taken place during the Passover festival is completely absurd, beyond all realm of realistic possibility. The fact that this hasn’t been more widely questioned and itself undermined the whole story is beyond me. The Jews didn’t execute people during Passover, period. That never ever would have happened, and the fact that all of the Gospel writers just copy that narrative down from “Mark” (who was clearly placing the crucifixion on Passover for symbolic and ironic impact) shows that the other Gospel writers had no clue at all of what they were even talking about. They had absolutely no knowledge at all of any real life or death of this supposed person.
“Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
why don’t you try to explain how do you KILL a god. why don’t you try to explain how DEATH can take the life of being who CREATED life and death.
sin looks like a powerful force in your religion which brings your god to his knees.
sin did not create death
death is not viewed as sin , it is viewed as an exit :
“When death comes to one of them, he says, ‘My Lord, send me back! So that I can do good in the things I neglected.’ By no means! It is a mere word that he speaks.”Qur’an 23:99-100
“Did you think that We (God) created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us (God)?”Qur’an 23:115
“Death, from which you are running away from, will certainly catch up with you. Then you will be returned to the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible (i.e. Allah) and He will inform you about what you did.”Qur’an 62:8
Here is the verse
וְר֧וּחַ יְיָ֛ סָ֖רָה מֵעִ֣ם שָׁא֑וּל וּבִֽעֲתַ֥תּוּ רֽוּחַ־רָעָ֖ה מֵאֵ֥ת יְיָֽ
This can be translated as
“Now Hashem’s Presence (ruaḥ) had deserted Sha’ul and moods (ruaḥ) of sadness from Hashem kept tormenting him”
As a muslim we tend to see this ruah ra’ah not as a spiritual entity, an “evil spirit” like most of christian translations did but rather a condition created by God. But yes it is interesting if we follow trinitarian logic, since on the phrase ‘The evil spirit of the Lord’ could be another persona of god another “who”, this exactly how the mess of trinitarianism started.”
notice bro eric that the ruah is BOTH cases is POSSESSED.
look , you people just don’t know what you worship. you have a yo-yo god who FEELS like a human BEING. think about it, a HUMAN BEING. he feels weak, gets tempted, gets bloated , needs to learn , needs to dependent on God . you just like worshiping a human BEING.
DON’T THINK your lies will take away the problem of getting DEFEATED by DEATH
your WHO is clearly “feeling” the WHAT because your WHO became WHAT
your who is 1 person. so your who CLEARLY got DEFEATED by death.
quote:
1.when you die according islamic theology do you cease to exist?
end quote
CONTINUED existence is dependent on the GOD. but if God wanted to, He could cause one to CEASE to exist and BRING back to life, it is easy for Him
”
. Everything will be destroyed except His Face”
now UPON whose CONTINUED existence is god DEPENDENT on when he GETS DEFEATED by death?
now lets me ask
jesus the one person is PINNED to a cross and DYING.
WHO is dying ?
1 person WHO is identified as “fully god and fully man”
remember NOW that jesus’ person is NOT a what.
so WHO died?
if the flesh DIED , then god has been CREATING FLESH FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS, I ASK AGAIN THEN, HOW DO YOU kill a god???
”
2. Is your soul spiritual or flesh?”
God has power over the spirit and the flesh, but it seems clear to me that your gods invisible soul WAS TRUMPED by death. think about it
you view jesus as 1 person and this 1 person GETS OVER TAKEN by death in which he LOSES control to his human body.
”
When the Son of God die on the cross what died soul and body or just the body?”
so a WHAT died while the who stayed alive?
so god DID NOT BECOME flesh because “who” stayed alive?
the point was the 1 person, 2 natures CLEARLY GOT DEFEATED by natural FORCES.
YET IMMORTAL GOD HAS POWER AND CONTROL OVER ALL NATURAL FORCES.
“When the Son of God die on the cross what died soul and body or just the body?”
DEATH effects our humanity
what effect does death put in immortal person or in trinitarian pagan understanding
what effect does death put in immortal persons since god ARE 3 persons?
don’t tell me THE BS that only person of god was EFFECT coz person of god, inherent within it = IMMORTALITY.
since god BECAME CONTROLLED AND OVER TAKEN by death and god BECAME LIMITED , what effect did that put in gods immortality?
god invisible ——-> became CONTROLLED by death , became VISIBLE and finite
if you DON’T believe any of this, then my question still STANDS , how do you KILL a god? or HOW do you say DEATH over took AN IMMORTAL god?
“what is death which is one of my original questions?”
not a sin and not a CURSE. something natural which god created. god is the one who CREATED death.
when the jews saw the life of ANIMALS fleeting, the FIRST THING that comes to MIND is that ONLY GOD IS perfect and everything else is LIMITED. kings of past are limited. queens are limited. rich people are limited.
EVERYTHING WILL BE DESTROYED, EXCEPT THE ALMIGHTY.
now answer my question, how DO YOU KILL a god? if god has BEEN CREATING FLESH FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS AND HAS IN HISTORY TAKEN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE THOUSANDS OF TIMES, HOW DO YOU KILL A god?????
“Um, humans die because our bodies are finite. It’s the natural order of things. Our bodies are not spirits. They are flesh and bone, blood and chemicals. It’s pretty obvious why humans die, like every other living thing. Why do animals die? Why do plants die? Do they also die because of Adam? Come on…”
bro FAIZ, can you explain to me how does one kill a god? i don’t get it bro. god created past, present and future. god created his own death of himself? please bro, can you explain?
Oh madman, when will you seek psychiatric help? Your condition is getting worse by the day.
Jesus showed no indication that he was in control of anything. Rather, he showed that he was doing God’s will, not his own. So yes, that is the dividing line and it shows conclusively that Jesus was just a man, and not “God”.
”
Jesus was always in control of the physical processes which led to his death”
thats the LIE john invented, but even in john we see that the father gave him something he didn’t have before. in all the earlier gospels , jesus COMMENDS his invisible spirit to god, which indicate that not jesus, but invisible father take FULL CONTROL of jesus’ invisible spirit
“father in to your hands i commend my spirit”
imply total dependence.
jesus = 1 person, 2 natures. logically the 1 person is experiencing death through both natures because inherent within the person are qualities of omni powers.
now life is fleeting . is it GOING away. when life is going away 1 person is LOSING CONTROL . this is COMMON SENSE.
jesus the PERSON/WHO lost CONTROL of his life!
this “always in control ” is a LIE.
he couldn’t be in control ONCE DEATH eat him
when he was IN death/united with death, he was RULED by it. death DOMINATED 1 person.
so your pagan brains are saying BIOLOGICAL processes TRUMPED 1 person, 2 natures for jesus = 1 person.
now i will ask again
HOW do you KILL a god when god has CONTROL and power over everything past, present and future and CREATES past, present and future?
bro Faiz, can you explain the quranic philosophy behind death. it is my understanding that God Himself created it , then GAVE life. in one ayah, the earth is dead and then is given life. as if from Gods perspective it is just the way things are. nothing to do with sin. just the way He wants things to be.
Yes, that is my understanding. He created everything, including death. It is the natural order. Humans were destined to live on earth for a time, die and then be brought back to life.
Hi Faiz
You said the following….Yes, that is my understanding. He created everything, including death. It is the natural order. Humans were destined to live on earth for a time, die and then be brought back to life.
So Allah is responsible for all the deaths of humans…rapes and murders sicknesses destined ALL HUMANS to go through these things.
Lol, not quite. Resorting to strawman arguments are we?
Death is just the absence of life. A person can die from many causes. The reason we die is because our bodies are finite. It really is not that difficult to grasp.
“So Allah is responsible for all the deaths of humans…rapes and murders sicknesses destined ALL HUMANS to go through these things.”
i honestly don’t get missionaries like you. it is part of your belief that god will make humans SUFFER in the depths of hell. worse than disease. in disease there is still some mercy. in hell there is NO mercy. in getting knocked out by a punch there is still some mercy . in hell there is no mercy.
you are one of those moron bimbos who will ask the same question NEXT year, you’ve been doing this for the past 5 years.
”
Jesus was always in control of the physical processes which led to his death”
that’s a funny one
you worship 1 person
you say this is a WHO
now tell me, did WHO LOSE control of human LIFE?
did who LOse control of human SENSES?
is your WHO natureless (divine)/WHATLESS (divine) AND IS only a DEFORMED WHO plugged into a human body?
so is the what (divine) become WHO-LESS, WHEN who is plugged into what (human) ?
it is you who is SEPARATING . it is you who is CAUSING division within the person. it is you who is BREAKING the person.
WHO is experiencing DEATH madman?
when your who is DYING , does the SAME WHO stare and watch? does he play tiddlywinks with the dying who?
if you having a watching who and a dying who, how come you don’t have 2 who’s ?
Hi Heathcliff
Would it possible for you to talk about these things in a sensible way I don’t talk with reference to Allah in a disrespectful way.
discuss it properly you bring no real theological arguments just making silly comments about Jesus is nonsense…prove the trinity false or rather answer the scriptures I sent earlier
“So Allah is responsible for all the deaths of humans…rapes and murders…”
JUST A question, when God drowned the people of noah, was it him drowning the people, or was it the water? did the water have divine powers to suffocate the people or was it god keeping them under the water? which is it? do you worship a combination of water-god like you worship man-god?
“So Allah is responsible for all the deaths of humans…rapes and murders sicknesses destined ALL HUMANS to go through these things.”
so can you tell me bimbo , when the act of murder takes place, who created it? when a child is BORN with a disease WHO created the disease? did sin create it ,BIMBO? or did God create it, BIMBO? or was sin ANOTHER CREATOR beside god ? to WILL into existence is different from responsibility because choosing the act was the murderers responsibility .
so it seems like you definitely believe that god is not the creator of ALL that exists. now tell me, how did the creator CALLED “sin” cause ADAM to disobey god? sin surely seems like your gods COMPETITOR AND KILLER.
Is it that difficult? You know you learn this stuff in elementary school?. We are biological organisms, subject to the laws of physics and nature, which God created. This life is finite. The afterlife is eternal. Get it?
Oh my goodness, are you really this dense? Who said anything about Muslims having to be perfect? Stop applying your asinine theology to Islam.
People are imperfect, finite beings. That is why we die. Elementary school children understand this. Why can’t you Christians understand? This is yet another example of the corrupting influence of Christianity on the capacity of some people to think.
DC, you are a pathetic apologist. So don’t be surprised that no one takes you seriously.
Your theology is absurd from the get go. That’s the problem. I am giving you the logical alternative which is the Islamic view. It makes sense that we are finite beings because our bodies are made from finite things. That is why we die. Like I said, even children understand this fundamental truth but Christians have trouble understanding because of the corrupting influence of their theology.
Adam and Eve were probably in Paradise before they were sent to earth. Or it could have been some other realm. But they were definitely not on earth.
They were also there in bodily form which explains why they began to cover themselves when they ate from the tree, as Gabriel explained.
Allah (swt) created humans to live and die on earth. That is part of the test. Living things die. That is the natural order. But the soul does not die.
“….but what about the little baby a few weeks old why do they die you believe they are sinless?”
i don’t know really. they didn’t chose to be human and neither did they chose to be born and neither did they choose to be born with problems. but they have no sin on them. they are innocent. they did nothing wrong , unless you are a sick christian who believes the infant was doing evil acts in his infancy , i don’t know why you even asked such question.
did baby jesus sin ? since baby jesus had all of sins poured on him like rape, murder, fornication, lying etc etc, how come jesus is sinless, but the baby who did no sin, is sinner?
“Jesus said what defiles us comes from within…adulteries fornications lying and murder etc”
did adulteries and fornication and lying and murder come out of baby jesus’ mind as he is feeding ?
“now you teach we are born sinless if you are born without sin you shouldnt sin.”
Our belief regarding Adam(as) and Eve(ra) is different from yours.
1. We believe they were both created just like we are, as mortal beings. It wasn’t because they sinned that death overcame them.
2. Adam(as) and Eve(ra) knew about this and so they got deceived by the false promise of Satan that they would become Eternal if they ate from the Tree.
“now if there is no such thing as original sin where are all.the perfect muslims?”
when a child is born and cries for food, can you tell me if
he sinned when he was born
sinned when he cried for food
now what has what he does as an INFANT got ANYTHING to do with perfection?
since everyone is , according to your crack induced theology cursed with PAIN, suffering , death , why couldn’t god FORGIVE us?
“hey god, you made me in this hell hole of sin and damned me with original sin and death and i STILL try to fight of satanic temptations, please forgive me god”
you worship an evil , biased and satanic blood god. not kind and fair to the ones he damned and then expects them to be perfect.
“Jesus said what defiles us comes from within…adulteries fornications lying and murder etc”
and yhwh says YOU can MASTER over sinful inclinations. and yhwhs says you can LOVE god with all thy heart . yhwh says you can use your heart to connect with him. yhwh says that the heart does not think ONLY filth, but it can fight filth. who should one choose ? yhwh who tells us “you can do it” and that “this earth is good”
what sickness and disease has pauline jesus given you that when you see an INFANT, you tell yourself that it is probably thinking about FORNICATION?
what sickness has your pauline jesus given you that ANY human you see, you think LUST and adulteries is in their minds?
“And in what state was he living, in other words he was living outside of time in the flesh.”
adam was destined to go to the earth.
no where in the text of quran is there indication that adam was PERFECT.
adam was prepared in heaven to go to earth.
“If no sin is in you then you wont desire it from outside.”
but then how come yhwh says you can MASTER over it? how can one desire mastering over sin ?
you are right, there is no sin in anyone, just like there was no sin in adam when he was created. it was the CHOICE.
“where do evil thoughts come from?”
WHERE do good thoughts come from?
where does the inclination to fight sin come from?
how do you love god with your heart if the heart is PUMPED with sin?
CHOOSING sin and BEING MADE OUT OF sin are TWO completely different things.
he wrote :
please discuss like an adult no one thinks a baby is thinking about fornication.
okay,so then the child is born with sinless thinking, right?
when i said “you are right…” i mean you are WRONG, there is no sin in anyone. nobody is born in sin
“so you explain please how sin gets into a sinless person as they grow up.”
you EITHER COPY the wrong you see or you do not copy the wrong you see.
what is this bs “sin GETS into …”
is sin like an EXTERNAL god in your beliefs? if your father beat your mother before you were born, did the sin transfer to you? when your father lusted, did you as a child lust like your father?
brother faiz, i could have quoted this response long time ago which was made by ustadh nabeel khilady, but knowing dc is in the game for 5 + years i didn’t bother.
i will quote it now
A misconception that I commonly hear amongst Muslims is that Mankind are here on earth because of the sin of our father Adam peace be upon him. This is actually a Christian concept and has no place in the Quran.
Here are a few points to clarify this:
1. Before Allah created Adam he tells the angels his plan for a vicegerent on earth. So the plan was always to come to earth to be servants of Allah and to fulfil our role as a vicegerent on earth.
2. Adam was initially taught all the theoretical knowledge ( Al Asmaa – the names ) needed for the role and was subsequently put in Jannah for practical experience along with his enemy.
3. When Adam disobeyed the command not to eat from the tree, he was taken out of Al-Jannah. [NOTE: scholars say that this Jannah was actually a place of training for Adam and was not the same Jannah that believers will be admitted in the hereafter. The reason is because lying, disobeying and leaving it does not happen in the Jannah of the hereafter.] The Jannah that Adam was in taught him the lessons he needed to know before being sent to earth i.e. the true nature of Iblees LA, the nature of sin and repentance .
4. Adam was taken out the Jannah and given further training on how to seek forgiveness from Allah. Allah taught Adam words to say and he turned to Allah with full sincerity for the mistake he had done out of forgetfulness (hence the name Insaan ( man/ mankind) which scholars say is derived from nisyaan – forgetfulness)
5. He was finally sent to earth SINLESS awaiting the guidance which Allah promised to send down.
There is a disagreement among the scholars as to what the “Garden” in which Adam and Eve were placed actually was. Some say it was actually Heaven. Others say it was some other place.
Mr Heathcliff
you said…
misconception that I commonly hear amongst Muslims is that Mankind are here on earth because of the sin of our father Adam peace be upon him. This is actually a Christian concept and has no place in the Quran.
Here you are acting like I dont know what I am talking about yet your own people are in disagreement.
We believe Adam was created from
1. the dust of the ground here on earth
2. he sinned here on earth nowhere else.
And no its not a Christian concept that we are on earth because of sin. Adsm was here before he sinned.
please give me some pre koranic scriptures that quote Adam made a mistake BEFORE he was on the earth.
Or better still give me what are mistakes that are not classed as sins today.
You said Adam made a mistake but sent to earth sinless.
Where do YOU say Adam made this mistake paradise?
You said you could given this answer before you are deceptive
bro faiz, i just have one issue with these words :
” When Adam disobeyed the command not to eat from the tree, he was taken out of Al-Jannah.”
“Sahih International: Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.”
Sahih International: We said, “Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance – there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
so Adams repentance was already accepted. which would then mean the “go down from it” was GOING to take place regardless if adam eat from the tree or not. he was always destined to go to earth as test. “when guidance come to you from me, whoever follows My guidance…”
In Surah Baqarah, as one can tell from the above, the statement ‘get you down’ is made twice. One when the couple committed the sin. The next, after their repentance.
Certain commentators pointed out the subtlety of this DOUBLE usage of “get down from here) and the second usage clarifies that this whole purpose of being placed in this world temporarily with Satan as a clear enemy (stated in the first usage) was for TRIAL, meaning it was happening regardless of the incident.
The fact that couple was forgiven before this second usage also emphatically corroborates this notion.
bro faiz, i think the scholars say that the repentance was accepted on earth and then the quran goes back to the scene where it says “come down from here….”
so i think i made a mistake about where repentance was accepted. but regardless, even if incident did not take place adam was destined to go to earth.
”
Adam was created on the earth please provide your source outside of the koran that he was created in paradise.
Was Adam flesh in paradise?”
First, you wanted to know what the Quran says. Now you want to know if other sources agree with the Quran? Why would we care what other sources say? How many sources do you think there are about Adam and Eve? Which particular source did you have in mind?
Adam was made from clay and his soul was then put into his body. So yes, he was already made of flesh before he was sent to earth. It makes sense because after he and Eve ate from the tree, they began to cover themselves. Would spirits cover themselves? You’re getting silly DC.
“so Adams repentance was already accepted. which would then mean the “go down from it” was GOING to take place regardless if adam eat from the tree or not. he was always destined to go to earth as test.”
No freebie for Adam first time round? I thought repentance was the get out of jail free card for Muslims? No second chance even with a faulty memory chip?
Well you know madman, your mangod wanted blood so sending Adam down to earth was the sure-fire way to get it. You know, Adam would have to toil in the earth and I don’t know, maybe get eaten by a dinosaur since apparently they were all created 6000 years ago. 😉
Blogging Theology 
oh that fairy tale
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does God live in your spirit?
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No, he means the one where a godman came to die for everyone’s sins so they can go to heaven.
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The fairy tale bullshit is in your religion. Show some historical evidence that Jews would get another Jew crucified HOURS BEFORE HIGH HOLY DAY AND THEN have him taken down BECAUSE OF HIGH HOLY DAY. Why would they even get him PINNED KNOWING FULL WELL THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE him down AGAIN HOURS B4 high holy day
FAIZ WILL KNOW what I’m talking about
Faiz , I hope in future you do an article exposing fairy tale in dcs pagan book
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Welcome. Back paulie
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Brother Heath,
I am actually currently working on an article about one of the biggest fairy tales in Christianity, original sin.
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Hi Faiz
Let me know when you finished I’d to read it ( honestly) and maybe understand a bit about you guys.
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Will do, DC.
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The book I always read over and over again every single day…
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Brother Eric and Bro Paul could you please critique the following, I am interested in an honest dialogue, Allah Bless!
I would propose that believers need not speculate in a vacuum; rather, they can read Gen 1:26-27 in the context of…
(a) 1 Corinthians 8:6, which treats the Father is our Creator,
(b) John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, which allude to the Son as our Creator, and
(c) Job 33:4, Psalms 104:30, Psalm 33:6, which can be understood as alluding to the Holy Spirit as our Creator, and
(d) Isaiah 44:24, which has God acting alone in creation.
On such a view, there are three Persons who take part in creation (precisely the three Persons mentioned in the veritable Christian basmala of Matthew 28:19), and yet God acts alone in creation. In my view, the best reconciliation of those points would be precisely that proposed by the churches which have existed from antiquity unto today (whether they be Catholic, Orthodox, or Miaphysite): that the one God encompasses three Persons. Moreover, as I alluded to above, it can be seen as providing explanatory scope to the shifts from plural to singular in Genesis 1:26-27 (and would lead at least some believers in the Bible to being more open to the possibility that the passage is referring to the Trinity).
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Salam SoT,
// In my view, the best reconciliation of those points would be precisely that proposed by the churches which have existed from antiquity unto today (whether they be Catholic, Orthodox, or Miaphysite): that the one God encompasses three Persons.//
The dilemma is why don’t the Christians have a quadrinity instead of a trinity as obviously for a argument sake there could be a 4th aspect contributing to the creation that is “the hand” יָד yad as in Isa 66:2 or even multity ( instead of trinity as the “army of God” יְהוָ֨ה צְבָאֹ֜ות Hashem seba’ot in Isa 37:16 also contribute in the creation of heaven and earth (all use the same verb עָשָׂה asah) the same act of creation as the “spirit”.
This is why we muslim don’t fell into trap of shirk into believing that God have multiple independent entities or personas worthy of worship. Just because the scripture also mentions ‘the Hand of the Lord’ and ‘the Army of the Lord’, we don’t add personas of gods call Hand and Armies as a separate entities.
God is ONE.
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Hi Eric bin Kisam
It seems you musunderstand what some Christians mean when they speak about the Trinity.
Can you explain what you think the following means…
Galatians 1:1 The Father rose Jesus from the dead.
John 2:19-22 The Son rose Jesus from the dead.
Romans 8:11 The spirit rose Jesus the dead.
compare with these verses with…
Acts 2:23-24
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
In Acts 2 it says God raised him up yet there are verses that speak of ALL THREE involved in the resurrection.
So mock the Trinity if you want but the truth is if Jesus really did die then your religion is as false as a £60 note.
You say God is one, what does that mean because you say he nothing like his creation.
you would have to explain what you mean by “Allah is one”
one what? he is a being and even saying that is wrong because many muslims have said Allah is genderless.
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brother eric, is the spirit, hand and arm of “the lord” separate entity?
maybe we can fit in other persons?
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brother eric.
look at this
ra·’ah
ru·ach-
Yah·weh
ruach is CLEARLY IN THE POSSESSIVE form.
that ruach is CLEARLY possessed by yhwh and it clearly says it is AN EVIL ruach.
we found another separate person in yhwh brother eric
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Salam,
Are you talking about Sh’muel Alef 16:14 right?
Here is the verse
וְר֧וּחַ יְיָ֛ סָ֖רָה מֵעִ֣ם שָׁא֑וּל וּבִֽעֲתַ֥תּוּ רֽוּחַ־רָעָ֖ה מֵאֵ֥ת יְיָֽ
This can be translated as
“Now Hashem’s Presence (ruaḥ) had deserted Sha’ul and moods (ruaḥ) of sadness from Hashem kept tormenting him”
As a muslim we tend to see this ruah ra’ah not as a spiritual entity, an “evil spirit” like most of christian translations did but rather a condition created by God. But yes it is interesting if we follow trinitarian logic, since on the phrase ‘The evil spirit of the Lord’ could be another persona of god another “who”, this exactly how the mess of trinitarianism started.
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Seeker of Truth
Yahweh said He alone and only He is God. Alone, only and no one else means there is no any other person except the one God. We in Semitic languages means plural We. Allah says we in the Quran and no sane Arab will argue it means more than one God.
Proof of God being one, only and alone and no one else, from the Bible. By the way there is no single “God is 3 persons in 1” in the bible.
“there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
“Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
“You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
“O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
Jesus said the only true God sent him, so Jesus cannot be God but was sent by the only true God. According to Jesus.
John 17:3
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent
A missionary could not prove Trinity or 3 persons 1 God in the Bible, but it is clear in so many places in the Bible, God is one, only and alone and none else. None means no person and nothing else including Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is none as well when the Bible said Yahweh is alone and the only God and none else.
Thanks.
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Hi Heathcliff
Please show some 1st century evidence outside of the Koran that it didn’t happen. And secondly I would like to know why there is not one perfect human Muslim on the earth?
You obviously dont believe that in Adam all die well maybe you can explain from scripture why humans die.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Is this scripture explaining a truth about human or not?
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Um, humans die because our bodies are finite. It’s the natural order of things. Our bodies are not spirits. They are flesh and bone, blood and chemicals. It’s pretty obvious why humans die, like every other living thing. Why do animals die? Why do plants die? Do they also die because of Adam? Come on…
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”
Please show some 1st century evidence outside of the Koran that it didn’t happen”
robert m price:
quote:
And on top of that, the very idea that the crucifixion would have taken place during the Passover festival is completely absurd, beyond all realm of realistic possibility. The fact that this hasn’t been more widely questioned and itself undermined the whole story is beyond me. The Jews didn’t execute people during Passover, period. That never ever would have happened, and the fact that all of the Gospel writers just copy that narrative down from “Mark” (who was clearly placing the crucifixion on Passover for symbolic and ironic impact) shows that the other Gospel writers had no clue at all of what they were even talking about. They had absolutely no knowledge at all of any real life or death of this supposed person.
“Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
why don’t you try to explain how do you KILL a god. why don’t you try to explain how DEATH can take the life of being who CREATED life and death.
sin looks like a powerful force in your religion which brings your god to his knees.
sin did not create death
death is not viewed as sin , it is viewed as an exit :
“When death comes to one of them, he says, ‘My Lord, send me back! So that I can do good in the things I neglected.’ By no means! It is a mere word that he speaks.”Qur’an 23:99-100
“Did you think that We (God) created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us (God)?”Qur’an 23:115
“Death, from which you are running away from, will certainly catch up with you. Then you will be returned to the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible (i.e. Allah) and He will inform you about what you did.”Qur’an 62:8
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robster2016
If you not going to answer the question dont answer but try being sincere and answer me then post me whatever question you want to ask.
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Hi Heathcliff
you said this…Faiz , I hope in future you do an article exposing fairy tale in dcs pagan book
Ok so you let me ask you a few things about the koran.
1. According to the Koran did God raise the Israelites from the dead in the wilderness?
2. Are the seven sleepers mentioned in the koran a historical event?
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quote :
you would have to explain what you mean by “Allah is one”
one what? he is a being and even saying that is wrong because many muslims have said Allah is genderless.
end quote
Allah is IDENTIFIED as ONE person INHERENT within the person are OMNI powers.
now can you explain how powers being INHERENT in 3 persons, does not = 3 gods?
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”
Are you talking about Sh’muel Alef 16:14 right?
Here is the verse
וְר֧וּחַ יְיָ֛ סָ֖רָה מֵעִ֣ם שָׁא֑וּל וּבִֽעֲתַ֥תּוּ רֽוּחַ־רָעָ֖ה מֵאֵ֥ת יְיָֽ
This can be translated as
“Now Hashem’s Presence (ruaḥ) had deserted Sha’ul and moods (ruaḥ) of sadness from Hashem kept tormenting him”
As a muslim we tend to see this ruah ra’ah not as a spiritual entity, an “evil spirit” like most of christian translations did but rather a condition created by God. But yes it is interesting if we follow trinitarian logic, since on the phrase ‘The evil spirit of the Lord’ could be another persona of god another “who”, this exactly how the mess of trinitarianism started.”
notice bro eric that the ruah is BOTH cases is POSSESSED.
like mudaf and mudaf ilayhi?
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Hi
why don’t you try to explain how do you KILL a god. why don’t you try to explain how DEATH can take the life of being who CREATED life and death.
a question for you.
1.when you die according islamic theology do you cease to exist?
2. Is your soul spiritual or flesh?
When the Son of God die on the cross what died soul and body or just the body?
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look , you people just don’t know what you worship. you have a yo-yo god who FEELS like a human BEING. think about it, a HUMAN BEING. he feels weak, gets tempted, gets bloated , needs to learn , needs to dependent on God . you just like worshiping a human BEING.
DON’T THINK your lies will take away the problem of getting DEFEATED by DEATH
your WHO is clearly “feeling” the WHAT because your WHO became WHAT
your who is 1 person. so your who CLEARLY got DEFEATED by death.
quote:
1.when you die according islamic theology do you cease to exist?
end quote
CONTINUED existence is dependent on the GOD. but if God wanted to, He could cause one to CEASE to exist and BRING back to life, it is easy for Him
”
. Everything will be destroyed except His Face”
now UPON whose CONTINUED existence is god DEPENDENT on when he GETS DEFEATED by death?
now lets me ask
jesus the one person is PINNED to a cross and DYING.
WHO is dying ?
1 person WHO is identified as “fully god and fully man”
remember NOW that jesus’ person is NOT a what.
so WHO died?
if the flesh DIED , then god has been CREATING FLESH FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS, I ASK AGAIN THEN, HOW DO YOU kill a god???
”
2. Is your soul spiritual or flesh?”
God has power over the spirit and the flesh, but it seems clear to me that your gods invisible soul WAS TRUMPED by death. think about it
you view jesus as 1 person and this 1 person GETS OVER TAKEN by death in which he LOSES control to his human body.
”
When the Son of God die on the cross what died soul and body or just the body?”
so a WHAT died while the who stayed alive?
so god DID NOT BECOME flesh because “who” stayed alive?
the point was the 1 person, 2 natures CLEARLY GOT DEFEATED by natural FORCES.
YET IMMORTAL GOD HAS POWER AND CONTROL OVER ALL NATURAL FORCES.
remember again WHO DIED?
i am not asking you about WHAT DIED
I AM ASKING YOU ABOUT WHO DIED
WHO do you say this PERSON is?
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what is death which is one of my original questions?
you are not giving an answer you are just making comments.
I want to know from the understanding of the koran.
so please explain death from your book before mocking the belief of christians.
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“When the Son of God die on the cross what died soul and body or just the body?”
DEATH effects our humanity
what effect does death put in immortal person or in trinitarian pagan understanding
what effect does death put in immortal persons since god ARE 3 persons?
don’t tell me THE BS that only person of god was EFFECT coz person of god, inherent within it = IMMORTALITY.
since god BECAME CONTROLLED AND OVER TAKEN by death and god BECAME LIMITED , what effect did that put in gods immortality?
god invisible ——-> became CONTROLLED by death , became VISIBLE and finite
if you DON’T believe any of this, then my question still STANDS , how do you KILL a god? or HOW do you say DEATH over took AN IMMORTAL god?
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“what is death which is one of my original questions?”
not a sin and not a CURSE. something natural which god created. god is the one who CREATED death.
when the jews saw the life of ANIMALS fleeting, the FIRST THING that comes to MIND is that ONLY GOD IS perfect and everything else is LIMITED. kings of past are limited. queens are limited. rich people are limited.
EVERYTHING WILL BE DESTROYED, EXCEPT THE ALMIGHTY.
now answer my question, how DO YOU KILL a god? if god has BEEN CREATING FLESH FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS AND HAS IN HISTORY TAKEN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE THOUSANDS OF TIMES, HOW DO YOU KILL A god?????
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“Um, humans die because our bodies are finite. It’s the natural order of things. Our bodies are not spirits. They are flesh and bone, blood and chemicals. It’s pretty obvious why humans die, like every other living thing. Why do animals die? Why do plants die? Do they also die because of Adam? Come on…”
bro FAIZ, can you explain to me how does one kill a god? i don’t get it bro. god created past, present and future. god created his own death of himself? please bro, can you explain?
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Lol, no I can’t. Unless of course, the Christian god was like the gods of the Greek pantheon. I suppose they could be killed.
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Jesus was always in control of the physical processes which led to his death. This is the dividing line between God and man.
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Lol, creative
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Oh madman, when will you seek psychiatric help? Your condition is getting worse by the day.
Jesus showed no indication that he was in control of anything. Rather, he showed that he was doing God’s will, not his own. So yes, that is the dividing line and it shows conclusively that Jesus was just a man, and not “God”.
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”
Jesus was always in control of the physical processes which led to his death”
thats the LIE john invented, but even in john we see that the father gave him something he didn’t have before. in all the earlier gospels , jesus COMMENDS his invisible spirit to god, which indicate that not jesus, but invisible father take FULL CONTROL of jesus’ invisible spirit
“father in to your hands i commend my spirit”
imply total dependence.
jesus = 1 person, 2 natures. logically the 1 person is experiencing death through both natures because inherent within the person are qualities of omni powers.
now life is fleeting . is it GOING away. when life is going away 1 person is LOSING CONTROL . this is COMMON SENSE.
jesus the PERSON/WHO lost CONTROL of his life!
this “always in control ” is a LIE.
he couldn’t be in control ONCE DEATH eat him
when he was IN death/united with death, he was RULED by it. death DOMINATED 1 person.
so your pagan brains are saying BIOLOGICAL processes TRUMPED 1 person, 2 natures for jesus = 1 person.
now i will ask again
HOW do you KILL a god when god has CONTROL and power over everything past, present and future and CREATES past, present and future?
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bro Faiz, can you explain the quranic philosophy behind death. it is my understanding that God Himself created it , then GAVE life. in one ayah, the earth is dead and then is given life. as if from Gods perspective it is just the way things are. nothing to do with sin. just the way He wants things to be.
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Yes, that is my understanding. He created everything, including death. It is the natural order. Humans were destined to live on earth for a time, die and then be brought back to life.
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Hi Faiz
You said the following….Yes, that is my understanding. He created everything, including death. It is the natural order. Humans were destined to live on earth for a time, die and then be brought back to life.
So Allah is responsible for all the deaths of humans…rapes and murders sicknesses destined ALL HUMANS to go through these things.
correct me if I’m wrong
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Lol, not quite. Resorting to strawman arguments are we?
Death is just the absence of life. A person can die from many causes. The reason we die is because our bodies are finite. It really is not that difficult to grasp.
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“So Allah is responsible for all the deaths of humans…rapes and murders sicknesses destined ALL HUMANS to go through these things.”
i honestly don’t get missionaries like you. it is part of your belief that god will make humans SUFFER in the depths of hell. worse than disease. in disease there is still some mercy. in hell there is NO mercy. in getting knocked out by a punch there is still some mercy . in hell there is no mercy.
you are one of those moron bimbos who will ask the same question NEXT year, you’ve been doing this for the past 5 years.
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because you cant declare what your own religion believes you think having a go at me gets you off the hook.
I just asked a simple question if humans are born sinless what is the reason for dying…even babies.
The bible says the soul that sins shall die but what about the little baby a few weeks old why do they die you believe they are sinless?
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”
Jesus was always in control of the physical processes which led to his death”
that’s a funny one
you worship 1 person
you say this is a WHO
now tell me, did WHO LOSE control of human LIFE?
did who LOse control of human SENSES?
is your WHO natureless (divine)/WHATLESS (divine) AND IS only a DEFORMED WHO plugged into a human body?
so is the what (divine) become WHO-LESS, WHEN who is plugged into what (human) ?
it is you who is SEPARATING . it is you who is CAUSING division within the person. it is you who is BREAKING the person.
WHO is experiencing DEATH madman?
when your who is DYING , does the SAME WHO stare and watch? does he play tiddlywinks with the dying who?
if you having a watching who and a dying who, how come you don’t have 2 who’s ?
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Hi Heathcliff
Would it possible for you to talk about these things in a sensible way I don’t talk with reference to Allah in a disrespectful way.
discuss it properly you bring no real theological arguments just making silly comments about Jesus is nonsense…prove the trinity false or rather answer the scriptures I sent earlier
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“So Allah is responsible for all the deaths of humans…rapes and murders…”
JUST A question, when God drowned the people of noah, was it him drowning the people, or was it the water? did the water have divine powers to suffocate the people or was it god keeping them under the water? which is it? do you worship a combination of water-god like you worship man-god?
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“So Allah is responsible for all the deaths of humans…rapes and murders sicknesses destined ALL HUMANS to go through these things.”
so can you tell me bimbo , when the act of murder takes place, who created it? when a child is BORN with a disease WHO created the disease? did sin create it ,BIMBO? or did God create it, BIMBO? or was sin ANOTHER CREATOR beside god ? to WILL into existence is different from responsibility because choosing the act was the murderers responsibility .
so it seems like you definitely believe that god is not the creator of ALL that exists. now tell me, how did the creator CALLED “sin” cause ADAM to disobey god? sin surely seems like your gods COMPETITOR AND KILLER.
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you are the one that said all humans are destined to die.
I suppose my question is why if people are born sinless are they destined to die?
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Is it that difficult? You know you learn this stuff in elementary school?. We are biological organisms, subject to the laws of physics and nature, which God created. This life is finite. The afterlife is eternal. Get it?
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the vast amounts of Muslims that I see on a daily basis are nowhere near perfection.
now if there is no such thing as original sin where are all.the perfect muslims?
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Oh my goodness, are you really this dense? Who said anything about Muslims having to be perfect? Stop applying your asinine theology to Islam.
People are imperfect, finite beings. That is why we die. Elementary school children understand this. Why can’t you Christians understand? This is yet another example of the corrupting influence of Christianity on the capacity of some people to think.
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hey Faiz
thats what happens when you guys are asked questions about what you actually believe.
you start showing your arrogance and start insulting people.
then you come out with nonsense that people die because we are imperfect you can’t even explain it in a theological way.
so boring and by your answer you are actually the dense one.
come with some scripture and help me understand your belief instead of throwing insults it doesnt take any brains to do that.
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DC, you are a pathetic apologist. So don’t be surprised that no one takes you seriously.
Your theology is absurd from the get go. That’s the problem. I am giving you the logical alternative which is the Islamic view. It makes sense that we are finite beings because our bodies are made from finite things. That is why we die. Like I said, even children understand this fundamental truth but Christians have trouble understanding because of the corrupting influence of their theology.
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Hi Faiz
so Adam and Eve were created in paradise which according to Muslims is not on earth, please explain where that was.
Is paradise in the spiritual realm?
explain how the flesh is living in paradise which is outside of time.
I’m trying to understand so did Allah create Adam and Eve to die?
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Adam and Eve were probably in Paradise before they were sent to earth. Or it could have been some other realm. But they were definitely not on earth.
They were also there in bodily form which explains why they began to cover themselves when they ate from the tree, as Gabriel explained.
Allah (swt) created humans to live and die on earth. That is part of the test. Living things die. That is the natural order. But the soul does not die.
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i really don’t GET WHAT is wrong with your brain.
“I suppose my question is why if people are born sinless are they destined to die?”
if children don’t eat they will DIE. what does that have to do with being sinless?
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being born sinless means you shouldnt sin
Jesus said what defiles us comes from within…adulteries fornications lying and murder etc
now you teach we are born sinless if you are born without sin you shouldnt sin.
I’m trying to get to the bottom of what you actually believe about sin.
stop trying to evade the discussion by trying to disrespect me you notice all.you do is try to ridicule.
all.that shows is your self righteous attitude and religious pride.
your name calling is time wasting try thinking through what I am.asking
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“The bible says the soul that sins shall die…..”
why did you leave out the soul which repents ?
“….but what about the little baby a few weeks old why do they die you believe they are sinless?”
i don’t know really. they didn’t chose to be human and neither did they chose to be born and neither did they choose to be born with problems. but they have no sin on them. they are innocent. they did nothing wrong , unless you are a sick christian who believes the infant was doing evil acts in his infancy , i don’t know why you even asked such question.
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Hi Heathcliff.
you said this…
they did nothing wrong , unless you are a sick christian who believes the infant was doing evil acts in his infancy
how does asking a question equate to being a “sick christian” what are you talking about.
what bible believing christian believes that?
why can’t you guys just answer simple questions about and to the so called true religion.
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“being born sinless means you shouldnt sin”
did baby jesus sin ? since baby jesus had all of sins poured on him like rape, murder, fornication, lying etc etc, how come jesus is sinless, but the baby who did no sin, is sinner?
“Jesus said what defiles us comes from within…adulteries fornications lying and murder etc”
did adulteries and fornication and lying and murder come out of baby jesus’ mind as he is feeding ?
“now you teach we are born sinless if you are born without sin you shouldnt sin.”
adam was born without sin but he sinned.
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where was Adam when he sinned?
And in what state was he living, in other words he was living outside of time in the flesh.
secondly
what are you talking about Pauline Jesus?
Jesus said this in Mark 7.
so you explain please how sin gets into a sinless person as they grow up.
If no sin is in you then you wont desire it from outside.
where do evil thoughts come from?
please discuss like an adult no one thinks a baby is thinking about fornication.
You obviously see sin in a different way so I am trying to understand where you are coming from.
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where was Adam when he sinned?
And in what state was he living, in other words he was living outside of time in the flesh.
secondly
what are you talking about Pauline Jesus?
Jesus said this in Mark 7.
so you explain please how sin gets into a sinless person as they grow up.
If no sin is in you then you wont desire it from outside.
where do evil thoughts come from?
please discuss like an adult no one thinks a baby is thinking about fornication.
You obviously see sin in a different way so I am trying to understand where you are coming from.
I’m waiting for someone to help me understand about the Adam in paradise.
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Hi DefendChrist,
Our belief regarding Adam(as) and Eve(ra) is different from yours.
1. We believe they were both created just like we are, as mortal beings. It wasn’t because they sinned that death overcame them.
2. Adam(as) and Eve(ra) knew about this and so they got deceived by the false promise of Satan that they would become Eternal if they ate from the Tree.
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“now if there is no such thing as original sin where are all.the perfect muslims?”
IN islamic text where is perfection a condition to be met? and what does being perfect have anything to do with how you are born or in what state?
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“now if there is no such thing as original sin where are all.the perfect muslims?”
when a child is born and cries for food, can you tell me if
he sinned when he was born
sinned when he cried for food
now what has what he does as an INFANT got ANYTHING to do with perfection?
since everyone is , according to your crack induced theology cursed with PAIN, suffering , death , why couldn’t god FORGIVE us?
“hey god, you made me in this hell hole of sin and damned me with original sin and death and i STILL try to fight of satanic temptations, please forgive me god”
you worship an evil , biased and satanic blood god. not kind and fair to the ones he damned and then expects them to be perfect.
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I will get back.to about your own god
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“Jesus said what defiles us comes from within…adulteries fornications lying and murder etc”
and yhwh says YOU can MASTER over sinful inclinations. and yhwhs says you can LOVE god with all thy heart . yhwh says you can use your heart to connect with him. yhwh says that the heart does not think ONLY filth, but it can fight filth. who should one choose ? yhwh who tells us “you can do it” and that “this earth is good”
what sickness and disease has pauline jesus given you that when you see an INFANT, you tell yourself that it is probably thinking about FORNICATION?
what sickness has your pauline jesus given you that ANY human you see, you think LUST and adulteries is in their minds?
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“And in what state was he living, in other words he was living outside of time in the flesh.”
adam was destined to go to the earth.
no where in the text of quran is there indication that adam was PERFECT.
adam was prepared in heaven to go to earth.
“If no sin is in you then you wont desire it from outside.”
but then how come yhwh says you can MASTER over it? how can one desire mastering over sin ?
you are right, there is no sin in anyone, just like there was no sin in adam when he was created. it was the CHOICE.
“where do evil thoughts come from?”
WHERE do good thoughts come from?
where does the inclination to fight sin come from?
how do you love god with your heart if the heart is PUMPED with sin?
CHOOSING sin and BEING MADE OUT OF sin are TWO completely different things.
he wrote :
please discuss like an adult no one thinks a baby is thinking about fornication.
okay,so then the child is born with sinless thinking, right?
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when i said “you are right…” i mean you are WRONG, there is no sin in anyone. nobody is born in sin
“so you explain please how sin gets into a sinless person as they grow up.”
you EITHER COPY the wrong you see or you do not copy the wrong you see.
what is this bs “sin GETS into …”
is sin like an EXTERNAL god in your beliefs? if your father beat your mother before you were born, did the sin transfer to you? when your father lusted, did you as a child lust like your father?
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brother faiz, i could have quoted this response long time ago which was made by ustadh nabeel khilady, but knowing dc is in the game for 5 + years i didn’t bother.
i will quote it now
A misconception that I commonly hear amongst Muslims is that Mankind are here on earth because of the sin of our father Adam peace be upon him. This is actually a Christian concept and has no place in the Quran.
Here are a few points to clarify this:
1. Before Allah created Adam he tells the angels his plan for a vicegerent on earth. So the plan was always to come to earth to be servants of Allah and to fulfil our role as a vicegerent on earth.
2. Adam was initially taught all the theoretical knowledge ( Al Asmaa – the names ) needed for the role and was subsequently put in Jannah for practical experience along with his enemy.
3. When Adam disobeyed the command not to eat from the tree, he was taken out of Al-Jannah. [NOTE: scholars say that this Jannah was actually a place of training for Adam and was not the same Jannah that believers will be admitted in the hereafter. The reason is because lying, disobeying and leaving it does not happen in the Jannah of the hereafter.] The Jannah that Adam was in taught him the lessons he needed to know before being sent to earth i.e. the true nature of Iblees LA, the nature of sin and repentance .
4. Adam was taken out the Jannah and given further training on how to seek forgiveness from Allah. Allah taught Adam words to say and he turned to Allah with full sincerity for the mistake he had done out of forgetfulness (hence the name Insaan ( man/ mankind) which scholars say is derived from nisyaan – forgetfulness)
5. He was finally sent to earth SINLESS awaiting the guidance which Allah promised to send down.
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your thoughts brother faiz
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bro, Faiz, please don’t be surprised if dc asks the SAME question next year
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Good points by brother Khilady.
There is a disagreement among the scholars as to what the “Garden” in which Adam and Eve were placed actually was. Some say it was actually Heaven. Others say it was some other place.
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Mr Heathcliff
you said…
misconception that I commonly hear amongst Muslims is that Mankind are here on earth because of the sin of our father Adam peace be upon him. This is actually a Christian concept and has no place in the Quran.
Here you are acting like I dont know what I am talking about yet your own people are in disagreement.
We believe Adam was created from
1. the dust of the ground here on earth
2. he sinned here on earth nowhere else.
And no its not a Christian concept that we are on earth because of sin. Adsm was here before he sinned.
please give me some pre koranic scriptures that quote Adam made a mistake BEFORE he was on the earth.
Or better still give me what are mistakes that are not classed as sins today.
You said Adam made a mistake but sent to earth sinless.
Where do YOU say Adam made this mistake paradise?
You said you could given this answer before you are deceptive
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bro faiz, i just have one issue with these words :
” When Adam disobeyed the command not to eat from the tree, he was taken out of Al-Jannah.”
“Sahih International: Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.”
Sahih International: We said, “Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance – there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
so Adams repentance was already accepted. which would then mean the “go down from it” was GOING to take place regardless if adam eat from the tree or not. he was always destined to go to earth as test. “when guidance come to you from me, whoever follows My guidance…”
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quote :
In Surah Baqarah, as one can tell from the above, the statement ‘get you down’ is made twice. One when the couple committed the sin. The next, after their repentance.
Certain commentators pointed out the subtlety of this DOUBLE usage of “get down from here) and the second usage clarifies that this whole purpose of being placed in this world temporarily with Satan as a clear enemy (stated in the first usage) was for TRIAL, meaning it was happening regardless of the incident.
The fact that couple was forgiven before this second usage also emphatically corroborates this notion.
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Yes, I agree. It was always the plan to send Adam and Eve to earth.
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bro faiz, i think the scholars say that the repentance was accepted on earth and then the quran goes back to the scene where it says “come down from here….”
so i think i made a mistake about where repentance was accepted. but regardless, even if incident did not take place adam was destined to go to earth.
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Hi
Adam was created on the earth please provide your source outside of the koran that he was created in paradise.
Was Adam flesh in paradise?
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DC said:
”
Adam was created on the earth please provide your source outside of the koran that he was created in paradise.
Was Adam flesh in paradise?”
First, you wanted to know what the Quran says. Now you want to know if other sources agree with the Quran? Why would we care what other sources say? How many sources do you think there are about Adam and Eve? Which particular source did you have in mind?
Adam was made from clay and his soul was then put into his body. So yes, he was already made of flesh before he was sent to earth. It makes sense because after he and Eve ate from the tree, they began to cover themselves. Would spirits cover themselves? You’re getting silly DC.
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bro faiz ,how is your article coming along?
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It will probably be another couple of weeks InshaAllah.
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“so Adams repentance was already accepted. which would then mean the “go down from it” was GOING to take place regardless if adam eat from the tree or not. he was always destined to go to earth as test.”
No freebie for Adam first time round? I thought repentance was the get out of jail free card for Muslims? No second chance even with a faulty memory chip?
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You faulty memory? Repentance get out of jail free card everyone
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Well you know madman, your mangod wanted blood so sending Adam down to earth was the sure-fire way to get it. You know, Adam would have to toil in the earth and I don’t know, maybe get eaten by a dinosaur since apparently they were all created 6000 years ago. 😉
Oh you silly Christians and your silly religion…
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