Paul Williams even admitted Islamic scholar Abdel Haleem told him the Qur’an does not say that the Bible was corrupted. But, unfortunately, Paul Williams took that old web-site down.
“According to Paul Williams, world-renowned Islamic scholar Abdel Haleem confirmed for him in a phone conversation one of the two claims that Christians often make regarding the Bible. In the view of Professor Haleem, the Qur’an does NOT teach that the Bible was corrupted. Instead, it teaches that the Bible has been misinterpreted. Prof. Haleem’s statements in this connection, as PW says, “put Muslim apologist Bassam Zawadi (who has argued many times for the view that the Quran teaches textual corruption) in the wrong.” This, as Paul Williams also says, serves to “vindicate the oft-stated views of Sam Shamoun and David Wood.”
(Summary by Anthony Rogers) (see link within my article)
These quotes by this Muslim scholar, Muhammad Abdel Haleem, would affirm that Surah 5:47; 5:68; 10:94; 3:3-4; 2:136; 29:46 do not teach that the Christian Scriptures were corrupted in their written text; and that Surah 2:79, 3:78, and 5:13 refer to Christians and Jews who have orally misinterpreted the text and a party of the Jews who goes apart and writes new books and claims that it is from God.
you failed to mention that I had misunderstood him as I have said many times since. You are a dishonest Christian Ken. Repent. Haleem does not believe the Quran says the 4 gospels are affirmed by the Quran. The NT is not the Injeel given to Jesus. He told me there are only a few authentic sayings of Jesus left in the NT.
Can you reconstruct the details?
Both what you originally understood and documentation of how you mis-understood him. And does he have this material in writing?
I remember you said you misunderstood him one time, after you had already taken down your 2nd blog. How do we know this for sure, without you providing some kind of proof? There does not seem to be a credible way to prove anything on this ( I grant), unless you have some written documents or video/audio tapes of his teaching on this issue.
It would be better for both sides of the argument (in both your Da’wa, and our apologetics) if we could get an article or video or audio on what Dr. Haleem has written / said about Surah 5:47 and 10:94, and other verses pertinent to the issue, on whether the previous Scriptures were corrupted or not.
well, at the time, he wrote it on his previous blog; and I had the link, but unfortunately he deleted it all; and then later started a new blog. (3rd one)
Even though Christians have had their sins atoned for – Colossians 1:13-14; I John 2:2; Romans 3:25-26; Hebrews 2:17-18, we still constantly confess our sins and repent of our sins in worship to the Lord.
1 John 1:9
If someone claims to be a Christian, and is not confessing their sins and repenting; they are lying and proving they are not a Christian.
You worship a human being, Ken.
You need to repent from this one.
Allah (sw) has created the heaven and earth for La Ilaha illa Allah. Allah(sw) had been sending his prophets and messengers peace be up on them with books for the humanity for this very reason NOT to believe that a human being got crossed in the fisrt century!
How dark is your world, Ken. Come to the light!
what words of “repentance” do you use?
you are already released from divine wrath because your god temporarily destroyed himself.
do you remind him that he destroyed himself for you sin today? how do you “repent”
“repentance” means to feel sorrow
repent
rɪˈpɛnt/Submit
verb
feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one’s wrongdoing or sin.
but your god told you that you are a free man because you believe your god temporarily DESTROYED himself because of your sins . you supposed to be celebrating like mary mag after she ran from the tomb. you are told to CELEBRATE!
your god told you that ALL the remorse is not NEEDED because he TEMPORARILY destroyed himself for all your damn sins.
your guilt has ALREADY been taken away. your “repentance” is no good because your teacher james white says “even my repentance is not good enough”
he , in his mind, thinks HAS ATONEMENT FOR INSINCERE repentance.
why are you doing acts of remorse? to show men? to show yourself? to fool yourself?
to lie to yourself?
If you constantly repent like Muslims and Jews does, then your sins is not forgiven. You are in delusion. If Jesus really dead for your sins, then you do not need to repent for your sins.The sins that had already taken away by Jesus is still on the shoulders of Christians for them to repent does not make sense. It means Jesus blood did not clean their sins very well. They still bear their sins, hence they repent everyday just like everyone.
Christianity = My father has paid all my 4 years program school fees for me but I have to be paying school fees myself every semester. I have to find some part time job to pay my school fees but my father has fully paid all my course fees for me. I still have to get a job and pay my school fees. That is the same thing in Christianity.
According to them Jesus had paid for their sins. Yet they are responsible for their sins like anyone else and they need repentance.
So, when Christians repent, do they expect God to forgive them? If yes, then Jesus did not die for their sins. It is a lie. If no, then their repentance is fake, insincere and wrong.
Don’t be lazy. Look them up and read with an open heart.
———-
I remember you said you misunderstood him one time, after you had already taken down your 2nd blog. How do we know this for sure, without you providing some kind of proof? There does not seem to be a credible way to prove anything on this ( I grant), unless you have some written documents or video/audio tapes of his teaching on this issue.
Appealing to these verses does nothing. It only amplifies the contradiction in your theology. Why does one need to repent of one’s sins if those sins have already been forgiven and washed away? It doesn’t make sense.
sanctification (holiness) – the process of spiritual growing – after one repents and trusts in Christ as Savior and Lord, there is a process of growth – we are never sinless or perfect. But when we do sin, we want to confess our sins and repent more and grow in that process of sanctification/holiness. We have genuine gratitude, thanksgiving, praise to God for His forgiveness in Christ. A person who does not keep confessing their sins and repenting and growing demonstrates that that they were not saved (it was a true repentance and faith when first made/becoming a Christian) in the first place.
Ephesians 4:30-32
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
1 John 1:5-10
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
Confession of sins and repentance restores our fellowship with the Lord.
Colossians 1:13-14
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Still not getting it? It doesn’t matter what your Bible says. As long as you insist on the vicarious atonement, you cannot do away with the contradiction. If your sins have already been forgiven, then there is no reason to repent. If you have to repent in order to be saved, then there is no need for the vicarious atonement.
Your sin is taken away, but not your guilt? Are you guilty but washed in blood of your pagan god?
You did a past sin and your pagan god told you, “no worries mate I already butchered myself , why are you showing sorrow face like Jimmy swaggart, you are atoned and free, you don’t want to be seen by men do you?”
if your past, present and future crimes have been cleared, it is time to celebrate. so you had lustful thought, but you are in the clear, your god tells you “you are released” (he can’t forgive he can only release”) so why are you showing guilty face? Why tears? why broken heart? you are washed in blood of your pagan god and you remind him this everytime you celebrate.
Consciously, Christians knew very well that the blood of Jesus cannot cleanse their sins, hence they repent like anyone else. If they really believe the blood of Jesus has washed away their sins, the will not repent when they sinned.
They are not sure the blood of Jesus will save them when they sin, hence their repentance like anyone else when they sin. Jimmy Swaggart cried on camera for his God to forgive him and so are all Christians but may not be on camera. Why cry for forgiveness if you have already been forgiven? Not sure about the blood forgivenes, they cry for the real forgiveness which is free of charge from God and does not need any blood.
The Christians cry for real forgiveness when they sin and they throw the blood of Jesus under the carpet.
If you are men and women as Christians, when you sinned do not ask for forgiveness and repent. You know without repentance the blood of Jesus can not save you and the hell fire is there for you. Why tell us a lie that Jesus died for your sins when you are responsible for your sins and repentance?
“sanctification (holiness) – the process of spiritual growing ”
IMPOSSIBLE. according to your beliefs humans ARE DISEASED with sin. the heart knows nothing but sin. YOU cannot grow, if you THINK you are “growing” you are being INFORMED by your “ORIGINAL sin” nature
.
you are “born in sin” remember.
– “after one repents”
oh…. so REPENTANCE is greater than “sacrifice” i see…
” and trusts in Christ as Savior and Lord,”
you trust using your heart, yet your heart is KNACKERED.
“there is a process of growth – we are never sinless or perfect.”
REPEATING yourself. growing would imply god GIVEN ability, your god GAVE u original sin, not an ability to get to KNOW him
he gave you a bloody go between to remind you he can’t forgive you and your GUILT and sorrow is TAKEN away “in blood of jesus”
“But when we do sin, we want to confess our sins and repent more and grow in that process of sanctification/holiness.”
you are giving your god “menstrual rags”
what do you want to confess? you “confessed” when you ACCEPTED the first time. i.e you are stained spiritual evil with no hope of recovery. you are damned in your sins and your sin is ALREADY taken away
what is the “CONFESSION” ?
“We have genuine gratitude, thanksgiving, praise to God for His forgiveness in Christ.”
so it is not guilt but CELEBRATION? lol
“A person who does not keep confessing their sins and repenting
and growing demonstrates that that they were not saved (it was a true repentance and faith when first made/becoming a Christian) in the first place.”
what are you confessing ?
ken sinned today, he said to his god:
“hey god, i just did a sin yesterday and you took care of it 2000 years ago, anything i offer you is menstrual rags and even my repentance is stained since i am “born in sin” so when i CONTINUE to sin, this just proves i am one of your CORRUPT CREATION WHICH YOU BUILD AND YOU MADE THAT DISTANCE BETWEEN ME and you, hey god , i can only show GUILT face because people NEED to see me so i can be SEEN by men like jimmy swaggart”
Don’t Christians ever wonder why killing god’s son (whom they believe to have been “god the son,” the second person of the “Trinity”) was not the greatest sin humans could ever commit? Humans killed god?! Isn’t that the greatest sin anyone could possibly dream of ever committing? How could the humans who committed such a deed ever be forgiven except maybe by killing another divine savior to “atone” for killing the first one? And so on and so forth? At some point the cycle of “atonement” has to be broken by direct forgiveness. At some point direct forgiveness, not based on a bloody sacrifice, has to intervene to break the endless loop. Maybe that’s why Jesus himself did not believe that God’s forgiveness depended on a bloody sacrifice
, but instead taught everyone to pray “in this way…Our Father…Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.” Simple. Direct forgiveness.
Has any theologian ever been able to demonstrate how “atonement” works, how physical pain unto death of an animal or person makes up for that time I talked back to my mother, or desired my neighbor’s wife or car?
Sounds exactly like sympathetic magic. Or as comedian Doug Stanhope says, “‘Jesus died for your sins.’ How does one affect the other? I hit myself in the foot with a shovel for your mortgage. I don’t get it.”
Or as my friend Tony Atkinson once asked, “How do ‘sins’ become something substantial in and of themselves? There are memories of being hurt, but ‘sins’ as substantial entities one can collect together and then place inside a body or soul? How do ‘sins’ become collected and where do they exist apart from being past acts? Are ‘sins’ the ‘bad’ memories of God? Do such memories ‘soil’ God’s mind? And he has to dispose of them? Is killing his own son a form of forgetfulness, a means of dissolving such memories? None of this makes sense.”
the process of growth in sanctification / holiness only starts AFTER one repents and trusts Christ as Savior and Lord and is born again, being changed, so that they are no longer slaves of sin. We are new creatures in Christ – 2 Corinthians 5:17
Romans 6:6
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin (sinful nature) might be rendered powerless, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
Romans 6:12-14
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. (grace = the power to choose the right way)
Romans 6:20-23
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Yes he did – Acts 9, 22, 26; and also Galatians chapters 1-2 about getting revelation from Christ Himself; and I Corinthians 15 about encountering the risen Christ) is the apostle Paul’s testimony of how the risen Christ appeared to him.
It’s all in full harmony with Gospels – all 27 books of the NT are in complete unity and harmony in theology and content.
“the process of growth in sanctification / holiness only starts AFTER one repents and trusts Christ as Savior and Lord and is born again, being changed, so that they are no longer slaves of sin.”
ken, are you speaking through your sinful nature here or are you speaking through an animal sacrifice? i guess you are speaking through your sinful nature. how do you know you are doing right? “being changed” how do you know? maybe this is the slave of sin speaking? “trusts”? adam and eve SAW god and their faith accounted them as righteous yet they were still PUNISHED according to your belief, so what is “trust” ?
how can sinned stained “born in sin” creature BECOME “holy” ?
to be UNHOLY is part of your NATURE.
ken, are you speaking through your sinful nature here or are you speaking through an animal sacrifice? i guess you are speaking through your sinful nature.
This seems like mocking to me. And also you curse a lot and use dirty language and you called me a “retard” and other dirty words and names in previous encounters.
mr.heathcliff wrote: Ken, you are a retard. Ken, pagans used to love other than brothers, was jesas not informed about this? In his hatred of pagans could he not see beyond his hatred? There are many pagans who told to love other than “brothers”
Ken , do you think jezoz was an lover of idolaterers?
Also, writing “jezoz” is mocking and wrong way of doing Da’wa, according to Surah 29:46.
Blogging Theology 
Could you just maybe like… i dunno… post a picture of every page?
😂
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er yes of course
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Paul, I am reporting you for copyright infringement!
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🙊
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Paul Williams even admitted Islamic scholar Abdel Haleem told him the Qur’an does not say that the Bible was corrupted. But, unfortunately, Paul Williams took that old web-site down.
“According to Paul Williams, world-renowned Islamic scholar Abdel Haleem confirmed for him in a phone conversation one of the two claims that Christians often make regarding the Bible. In the view of Professor Haleem, the Qur’an does NOT teach that the Bible was corrupted. Instead, it teaches that the Bible has been misinterpreted. Prof. Haleem’s statements in this connection, as PW says, “put Muslim apologist Bassam Zawadi (who has argued many times for the view that the Quran teaches textual corruption) in the wrong.” This, as Paul Williams also says, serves to “vindicate the oft-stated views of Sam Shamoun and David Wood.”
(Summary by Anthony Rogers) (see link within my article)
These quotes by this Muslim scholar, Muhammad Abdel Haleem, would affirm that Surah 5:47; 5:68; 10:94; 3:3-4; 2:136; 29:46 do not teach that the Christian Scriptures were corrupted in their written text; and that Surah 2:79, 3:78, and 5:13 refer to Christians and Jews who have orally misinterpreted the text and a party of the Jews who goes apart and writes new books and claims that it is from God.
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2017/01/12/muslim-scholar-abdel-haleem-agrees-that-the-quran-does-not-teach-that-the-text-of-the-previous-scriptures-was-corrupted/
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you failed to mention that I had misunderstood him as I have said many times since. You are a dishonest Christian Ken. Repent. Haleem does not believe the Quran says the 4 gospels are affirmed by the Quran. The NT is not the Injeel given to Jesus. He told me there are only a few authentic sayings of Jesus left in the NT.
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Do you have documentation of that that he has written?
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Can you reconstruct the details?
Both what you originally understood and documentation of how you mis-understood him. And does he have this material in writing?
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I remember you said you misunderstood him one time, after you had already taken down your 2nd blog. How do we know this for sure, without you providing some kind of proof? There does not seem to be a credible way to prove anything on this ( I grant), unless you have some written documents or video/audio tapes of his teaching on this issue.
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eh?
Your dishonestly is blatant. Ken you need to repent of your sin.
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paul, this guy thinks all his sins have already been atoned for, repentance would be useless.
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Did you require documentation when what Paul reported from his phone conversation suited your beliefs?
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It would be better for both sides of the argument (in both your Da’wa, and our apologetics) if we could get an article or video or audio on what Dr. Haleem has written / said about Surah 5:47 and 10:94, and other verses pertinent to the issue, on whether the previous Scriptures were corrupted or not.
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well, at the time, he wrote it on his previous blog; and I had the link, but unfortunately he deleted it all; and then later started a new blog. (3rd one)
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Even though Christians have had their sins atoned for – Colossians 1:13-14; I John 2:2; Romans 3:25-26; Hebrews 2:17-18, we still constantly confess our sins and repent of our sins in worship to the Lord.
1 John 1:9
If someone claims to be a Christian, and is not confessing their sins and repenting; they are lying and proving they are not a Christian.
1 John 1:5-10
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You worship a human being, Ken.
You need to repent from this one.
Allah (sw) has created the heaven and earth for La Ilaha illa Allah. Allah(sw) had been sending his prophets and messengers peace be up on them with books for the humanity for this very reason NOT to believe that a human being got crossed in the fisrt century!
How dark is your world, Ken. Come to the light!
LikeLiked by 3 people
what words of “repentance” do you use?
you are already released from divine wrath because your god temporarily destroyed himself.
do you remind him that he destroyed himself for you sin today? how do you “repent”
“repentance” means to feel sorrow
repent
rɪˈpɛnt/Submit
verb
feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one’s wrongdoing or sin.
but your god told you that you are a free man because you believe your god temporarily DESTROYED himself because of your sins . you supposed to be celebrating like mary mag after she ran from the tomb. you are told to CELEBRATE!
your god told you that ALL the remorse is not NEEDED because he TEMPORARILY destroyed himself for all your damn sins.
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your guilt has ALREADY been taken away. your “repentance” is no good because your teacher james white says “even my repentance is not good enough”
he , in his mind, thinks HAS ATONEMENT FOR INSINCERE repentance.
why are you doing acts of remorse? to show men? to show yourself? to fool yourself?
to lie to yourself?
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If you constantly repent like Muslims and Jews does, then your sins is not forgiven. You are in delusion. If Jesus really dead for your sins, then you do not need to repent for your sins.The sins that had already taken away by Jesus is still on the shoulders of Christians for them to repent does not make sense. It means Jesus blood did not clean their sins very well. They still bear their sins, hence they repent everyday just like everyone.
Why lie that Jesus blood has take away your sins?
Thanks.
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Well, blood doesn’t clean, it stains.
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Ken Temple
Christianity = My father has paid all my 4 years program school fees for me but I have to be paying school fees myself every semester. I have to find some part time job to pay my school fees but my father has fully paid all my course fees for me. I still have to get a job and pay my school fees. That is the same thing in Christianity.
According to them Jesus had paid for their sins. Yet they are responsible for their sins like anyone else and they need repentance.
So, when Christians repent, do they expect God to forgive them? If yes, then Jesus did not die for their sins. It is a lie. If no, then their repentance is fake, insincere and wrong.
Thanks.
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You have to explain these verses then:
Colossians 1:13-14
I John 1:5-10
I John 2:2
Romans 3:24-25
1 John 1:9
willingness to keep on confessing and repenting proves that we are true believers.
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but you tell blatant lies. This proves you are a false bliver.
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No, because I do remember you reporting that one time; but you gave no documentation, audio, video, etc. (that I can recall)
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Proverbs 28:13
2 Corinthians 12:21
Psalm 51
Psalm 32
Psalm 38
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a list like that is unhelpful
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Don’t be lazy. Look them up and read with an open heart.
———-
I remember you said you misunderstood him one time, after you had already taken down your 2nd blog. How do we know this for sure, without you providing some kind of proof? There does not seem to be a credible way to prove anything on this ( I grant), unless you have some written documents or video/audio tapes of his teaching on this issue.
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you now because I am telling you the truth. I do not lie deliberately like you have done on this blog.
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Appealing to these verses does nothing. It only amplifies the contradiction in your theology. Why does one need to repent of one’s sins if those sins have already been forgiven and washed away? It doesn’t make sense.
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sanctification (holiness) – the process of spiritual growing – after one repents and trusts in Christ as Savior and Lord, there is a process of growth – we are never sinless or perfect. But when we do sin, we want to confess our sins and repent more and grow in that process of sanctification/holiness. We have genuine gratitude, thanksgiving, praise to God for His forgiveness in Christ. A person who does not keep confessing their sins and repenting and growing demonstrates that that they were not saved (it was a true repentance and faith when first made/becoming a Christian) in the first place.
Ephesians 4:30-32
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
1 John 1:5-10
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
Confession of sins and repentance restores our fellowship with the Lord.
Colossians 1:13-14
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
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Still not getting it? It doesn’t matter what your Bible says. As long as you insist on the vicarious atonement, you cannot do away with the contradiction. If your sins have already been forgiven, then there is no reason to repent. If you have to repent in order to be saved, then there is no need for the vicarious atonement.
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Your sin is taken away, but not your guilt? Are you guilty but washed in blood of your pagan god?
You did a past sin and your pagan god told you, “no worries mate I already butchered myself , why are you showing sorrow face like Jimmy swaggart, you are atoned and free, you don’t want to be seen by men do you?”
if your past, present and future crimes have been cleared, it is time to celebrate. so you had lustful thought, but you are in the clear, your god tells you “you are released” (he can’t forgive he can only release”) so why are you showing guilty face? Why tears? why broken heart? you are washed in blood of your pagan god and you remind him this everytime you celebrate.
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Ken, is your guilty face, feelings of sorrow, words , acts in regards to repentance , MENSTRUAL rags?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Consciously, Christians knew very well that the blood of Jesus cannot cleanse their sins, hence they repent like anyone else. If they really believe the blood of Jesus has washed away their sins, the will not repent when they sinned.
They are not sure the blood of Jesus will save them when they sin, hence their repentance like anyone else when they sin. Jimmy Swaggart cried on camera for his God to forgive him and so are all Christians but may not be on camera. Why cry for forgiveness if you have already been forgiven? Not sure about the blood forgivenes, they cry for the real forgiveness which is free of charge from God and does not need any blood.
The Christians cry for real forgiveness when they sin and they throw the blood of Jesus under the carpet.
If you are men and women as Christians, when you sinned do not ask for forgiveness and repent. You know without repentance the blood of Jesus can not save you and the hell fire is there for you. Why tell us a lie that Jesus died for your sins when you are responsible for your sins and repentance?
Thanks.
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If a Christian really acted like someome whose past present and future sins have been forgiven, society would regard them as a sociopath.
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“sanctification (holiness) – the process of spiritual growing ”
IMPOSSIBLE. according to your beliefs humans ARE DISEASED with sin. the heart knows nothing but sin. YOU cannot grow, if you THINK you are “growing” you are being INFORMED by your “ORIGINAL sin” nature
.
you are “born in sin” remember.
– “after one repents”
oh…. so REPENTANCE is greater than “sacrifice” i see…
” and trusts in Christ as Savior and Lord,”
you trust using your heart, yet your heart is KNACKERED.
“there is a process of growth – we are never sinless or perfect.”
REPEATING yourself. growing would imply god GIVEN ability, your god GAVE u original sin, not an ability to get to KNOW him
he gave you a bloody go between to remind you he can’t forgive you and your GUILT and sorrow is TAKEN away “in blood of jesus”
“But when we do sin, we want to confess our sins and repent more and grow in that process of sanctification/holiness.”
you are giving your god “menstrual rags”
what do you want to confess? you “confessed” when you ACCEPTED the first time. i.e you are stained spiritual evil with no hope of recovery. you are damned in your sins and your sin is ALREADY taken away
what is the “CONFESSION” ?
“We have genuine gratitude, thanksgiving, praise to God for His forgiveness in Christ.”
so it is not guilt but CELEBRATION? lol
“A person who does not keep confessing their sins and repenting
and growing demonstrates that that they were not saved (it was a true repentance and faith when first made/becoming a Christian) in the first place.”
what are you confessing ?
ken sinned today, he said to his god:
“hey god, i just did a sin yesterday and you took care of it 2000 years ago, anything i offer you is menstrual rags and even my repentance is stained since i am “born in sin” so when i CONTINUE to sin, this just proves i am one of your CORRUPT CREATION WHICH YOU BUILD AND YOU MADE THAT DISTANCE BETWEEN ME and you, hey god , i can only show GUILT face because people NEED to see me so i can be SEEN by men like jimmy swaggart”
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quote:
Don’t Christians ever wonder why killing god’s son (whom they believe to have been “god the son,” the second person of the “Trinity”) was not the greatest sin humans could ever commit? Humans killed god?! Isn’t that the greatest sin anyone could possibly dream of ever committing? How could the humans who committed such a deed ever be forgiven except maybe by killing another divine savior to “atone” for killing the first one? And so on and so forth? At some point the cycle of “atonement” has to be broken by direct forgiveness. At some point direct forgiveness, not based on a bloody sacrifice, has to intervene to break the endless loop. Maybe that’s why Jesus himself did not believe that God’s forgiveness depended on a bloody sacrifice
, but instead taught everyone to pray “in this way…Our Father…Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.” Simple. Direct forgiveness.
Has any theologian ever been able to demonstrate how “atonement” works, how physical pain unto death of an animal or person makes up for that time I talked back to my mother, or desired my neighbor’s wife or car?
Sounds exactly like sympathetic magic. Or as comedian Doug Stanhope says, “‘Jesus died for your sins.’ How does one affect the other? I hit myself in the foot with a shovel for your mortgage. I don’t get it.”
Or as my friend Tony Atkinson once asked, “How do ‘sins’ become something substantial in and of themselves? There are memories of being hurt, but ‘sins’ as substantial entities one can collect together and then place inside a body or soul? How do ‘sins’ become collected and where do they exist apart from being past acts? Are ‘sins’ the ‘bad’ memories of God? Do such memories ‘soil’ God’s mind? And he has to dispose of them? Is killing his own son a form of forgetfulness, a means of dissolving such memories? None of this makes sense.”
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the process of growth in sanctification / holiness only starts AFTER one repents and trusts Christ as Savior and Lord and is born again, being changed, so that they are no longer slaves of sin. We are new creatures in Christ – 2 Corinthians 5:17
Romans 6:6
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin (sinful nature) might be rendered powerless, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
Romans 6:12-14
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. (grace = the power to choose the right way)
Romans 6:20-23
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Paul never knew the historical Jesus. And he taught different things from Jesus about salvation and the law.
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Yes he did – Acts 9, 22, 26; and also Galatians chapters 1-2 about getting revelation from Christ Himself; and I Corinthians 15 about encountering the risen Christ) is the apostle Paul’s testimony of how the risen Christ appeared to him.
It’s all in full harmony with Gospels – all 27 books of the NT are in complete unity and harmony in theology and content.
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“the process of growth in sanctification / holiness only starts AFTER one repents and trusts Christ as Savior and Lord and is born again, being changed, so that they are no longer slaves of sin.”
ken, are you speaking through your sinful nature here or are you speaking through an animal sacrifice? i guess you are speaking through your sinful nature. how do you know you are doing right? “being changed” how do you know? maybe this is the slave of sin speaking? “trusts”? adam and eve SAW god and their faith accounted them as righteous yet they were still PUNISHED according to your belief, so what is “trust” ?
how can sinned stained “born in sin” creature BECOME “holy” ?
to be UNHOLY is part of your NATURE.
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“mr.heathcliff” –
Your questions don’t seem sincere. They seem like you are mocking.
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ive never mocked you ken. show me even one time i have mocked you?
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ken, are you speaking through your sinful nature here or are you speaking through an animal sacrifice? i guess you are speaking through your sinful nature.
This seems like mocking to me. And also you curse a lot and use dirty language and you called me a “retard” and other dirty words and names in previous encounters.
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mr.heathcliff wrote:
Ken, you are a retard. Ken, pagans used to love other than brothers, was jesas not informed about this? In his hatred of pagans could he not see beyond his hatred? There are many pagans who told to love other than “brothers”
Ken , do you think jezoz was an lover of idolaterers?
Also, writing “jezoz” is mocking and wrong way of doing Da’wa, according to Surah 29:46.
https://bloggingtheology.net/2017/07/29/some-christians-are-masochists/#comment-53496
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mr.heathcliff
August 3, 2017 • 9:00 am
oh sh:t ken, we are told to keep in mind that papias never ever mentions the gospel of john.
https://bloggingtheology.net/2017/07/29/some-christians-are-masochists/#comment-53525
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