Did John the baptist kiss the black stone like the pagans? Did he worship in the manner of arabia’s pre-islamic pagans, just like post-islamic muslims worship today?
As I often say on my blog, the Quran is a polemic against history. It rewrites the narrative of God and his prophets and it flatly contradicts the Biblical, Historical and Ecclesiastical record.
Trey,
Your argument is non-sequitur, fallacious and just absolute nonsense. The Islamic rites done in and around Mecca are done in imitation of Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar, not the pagans.
We believe that every prophet is sent to preach the same doctrines but not necessary the same laws or rites of worship. John and Jesus preached monotheism, repentance, and the kingdom of God, exactly what Islam preaches. Christianity preaches the worship of human beings, human sacrifice, and the invalidity of divine law.
The quran never desribes specific christian doctrines accurately, and mostly gets it wrong about them. For example, allah is ignorant of the trinity and does not know that jews never worshiped ezra as the son of god.
Ibn Awad
Your comment is nonsense – where is your evidence that abraham worshiped like the pagans of ancient mecca?
Plus, you have absolutely no evidence that previous prophets preached the same nonsense as mohammed. Even some pagans worshiped only one god as their high god – are they muslims too?
And sorry to tell you, but islamic theology proscribes the worship of allah – he is just too transcendent to apprehend. That is why muslims reserve their adoration for a human being…mohammed. As many muslims have informed me, when you follow mohammed , you follow your god.
Trey,
You have no evidence that the trinity exists.
You have no evidence that Jesus is or claimed to be God.
You have no evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.
You have no evidence that what Paul of Tarsus saw in the road to Damascus was really Jesus.
You have no evidence that the gospel writers are those that Christian tradition identifies with.
You have no evidence of the historicity of any thing Jesus said in the gospels.
The Bible is full of contradictions and mistakes.
The worship of Jesus is pagan.
The trinity is polytheism.
Christianity contradicts the basic aspects of the Old Testament religion.
Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house. No one has the time or bother to address your uneducated language, your cheap attacks and arguments recycled from xtian missionaries. Get yourself an education. I do not own/manage this blog, but I’m sure that fair chrstians willing to engage in respectful dialogue are welcome, uneducated bigots are not.
You have no evidence that mohammed was visited by any angel of the true god – he thought it was a demon. Worse still your sharia and most of your rituals come not from the quran, but from volumes of man-made books supposedly detailing the life of mohammed – unfortunately, your traditions have little historical credibility. You have no evidence outside the sources themselves that your “prophet” even said or did any of the things you believe he said or did.
That aside, islam is not from the OT tradition – no OT prophet is adored and imitated like muslims imitate moahmmed. In the OT it is the message and not the messenger that receives reverence. Islam is about the adoration of a man – a very flawed man.
And yes, the quran doesn’t make any sense and is incomplete – else why would you need to refer to outside sources, like the tafsir and hadith to give your god’s words a meaningful context?
” In the OT it is the message and not the messenger that receives reverence.”
so i guess the reason why the disciples DITCHED your pagan meat and blood god, after he request they EAT him, because having the THOUGHT of eating and drinking a human was foreign to them , right?
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirite and life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
“As I often say on my blog, the Quran is a polemic against history. It rewrites the narrative of God and his prophets and it flatly contradicts the Biblical, Historical and Ecclesiastical record.”
This is certainly ironic because it actually applies to the New Testament. More on that in a bit.
A Muslim is someone who submits himself to God. That would include all the prophets, including John the Baptist. They were Muslims. That doesn’t mean that they necessarily prayed like Muslims or fasted during Ramadan. The previous prophets were sent to their own people, in different times but the universal message of Islam encompasses the main message of these prophets.
Now, if anything is a “polemic against history”, it’s the Christian religion since a Christian would assume that John the Baptist was a trinitarian! Is there any evidence for this? Of course not, since the trinity was unknown even to Jesus. Moses, David, Solomon, Zechariah, John the Baptist and Jesus were monotheists who had no idea of some bizarre triune god.
Faiz,
You are right, the NT is a polemic against history, as it rewrites the narrative of God and his prophets and it flatly contradicts the OT.
And why is it that all of the disciples who actually knew Jesus and were taught by him, agree with and teach God, repentance, and the Kingdom (or salvation) which is what Muhammad taught as well. While it seems to be that the one guy, Paul of Tarsus, who NEVER knew Jesus, and was never taught by him, teaches the diametric opposite?
How do we know that Paul wasn’t engaged in some type of Cointel-program working for the Romans to co-opt and subvert the budding Christian movement in its infancy? Because it seems a lot like that is what happened.
Indeed, Quran addresses all kinds of people’s beliefs whether christians of today consider it orthodoxy or not since the “orthodox” belief has no meaning in regard of history as dr. Bart Ehrman has explained .
All disciples of Jesus, for example, are “nothing” according to Paul’s religion. Histrically, there’re christianities not one christianity as may people think.
Reqarding Alhajar Al aswad, Kabba, and Maqam Ibraheem, thses are not gods. Read the book of Rev about new Jerusalem or about the temple of jews or their tent in OT. On the other hand, your salvation depends on a cross which carried your almighty god! You worship a human being literally.
LOL, little man Trey cannot ever refute Muslims so he always tries to divert. Brother Ibn Awad completely schooled this pathetic clown, so Bozo responded by using a tu quoque. Hahahaha!
Yes, Paul made some great points in relation to John the Baptist, teaching on repentance. If we can achieve salvation through the simple act of repentance to God as beautifully taught by John the Baptist Jesus and Muhammad, then why do we need to espouse a belief in faith based redemption through Jesus supposed atonement by Crucifixion?
Christians never seem to see this major contradiction in their own Bible. Such Xtians should take the Jesus goggles off and try reading the actual words on the pages of their book, without the unnecessary baggage of their own man made doctrines and innovations.
Blogging Theology 
Did John the baptist kiss the black stone like the pagans? Did he worship in the manner of arabia’s pre-islamic pagans, just like post-islamic muslims worship today?
No?
Then he wasn’t a muslim.
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As I often say on my blog, the Quran is a polemic against history. It rewrites the narrative of God and his prophets and it flatly contradicts the Biblical, Historical and Ecclesiastical record.
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The Quran sees itself as correcting the distortions and errors of the Bible and later Christian tradition.
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You are correct Paul. The Quran does see itself like that.
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Trey,
Your argument is non-sequitur, fallacious and just absolute nonsense. The Islamic rites done in and around Mecca are done in imitation of Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar, not the pagans.
We believe that every prophet is sent to preach the same doctrines but not necessary the same laws or rites of worship. John and Jesus preached monotheism, repentance, and the kingdom of God, exactly what Islam preaches. Christianity preaches the worship of human beings, human sacrifice, and the invalidity of divine law.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Paul
The quran never desribes specific christian doctrines accurately, and mostly gets it wrong about them. For example, allah is ignorant of the trinity and does not know that jews never worshiped ezra as the son of god.
Ibn Awad
Your comment is nonsense – where is your evidence that abraham worshiped like the pagans of ancient mecca?
Plus, you have absolutely no evidence that previous prophets preached the same nonsense as mohammed. Even some pagans worshiped only one god as their high god – are they muslims too?
And sorry to tell you, but islamic theology proscribes the worship of allah – he is just too transcendent to apprehend. That is why muslims reserve their adoration for a human being…mohammed. As many muslims have informed me, when you follow mohammed , you follow your god.
Speaks for itself.
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Trey,
You have no evidence that the trinity exists.
You have no evidence that Jesus is or claimed to be God.
You have no evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.
You have no evidence that what Paul of Tarsus saw in the road to Damascus was really Jesus.
You have no evidence that the gospel writers are those that Christian tradition identifies with.
You have no evidence of the historicity of any thing Jesus said in the gospels.
The Bible is full of contradictions and mistakes.
The worship of Jesus is pagan.
The trinity is polytheism.
Christianity contradicts the basic aspects of the Old Testament religion.
Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house. No one has the time or bother to address your uneducated language, your cheap attacks and arguments recycled from xtian missionaries. Get yourself an education. I do not own/manage this blog, but I’m sure that fair chrstians willing to engage in respectful dialogue are welcome, uneducated bigots are not.
LikeLiked by 3 people
bn awad
Can’t believe you went there. LOL!
You have no evidence that mohammed was visited by any angel of the true god – he thought it was a demon. Worse still your sharia and most of your rituals come not from the quran, but from volumes of man-made books supposedly detailing the life of mohammed – unfortunately, your traditions have little historical credibility. You have no evidence outside the sources themselves that your “prophet” even said or did any of the things you believe he said or did.
That aside, islam is not from the OT tradition – no OT prophet is adored and imitated like muslims imitate moahmmed. In the OT it is the message and not the messenger that receives reverence. Islam is about the adoration of a man – a very flawed man.
And yes, the quran doesn’t make any sense and is incomplete – else why would you need to refer to outside sources, like the tafsir and hadith to give your god’s words a meaningful context?
LOL! CRASH!!!!
There goes your glass house.
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Pathetic
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ibn awad
Pathetic indeed.
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Trey, you need to be blocked.
The school of the clown is open for yo.
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Here we go. Games, games, games.
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” In the OT it is the message and not the messenger that receives reverence.”
so i guess the reason why the disciples DITCHED your pagan meat and blood god, after he request they EAT him, because having the THOUGHT of eating and drinking a human was foreign to them , right?
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirite and life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
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Allan said:
“As I often say on my blog, the Quran is a polemic against history. It rewrites the narrative of God and his prophets and it flatly contradicts the Biblical, Historical and Ecclesiastical record.”
This is certainly ironic because it actually applies to the New Testament. More on that in a bit.
A Muslim is someone who submits himself to God. That would include all the prophets, including John the Baptist. They were Muslims. That doesn’t mean that they necessarily prayed like Muslims or fasted during Ramadan. The previous prophets were sent to their own people, in different times but the universal message of Islam encompasses the main message of these prophets.
Now, if anything is a “polemic against history”, it’s the Christian religion since a Christian would assume that John the Baptist was a trinitarian! Is there any evidence for this? Of course not, since the trinity was unknown even to Jesus. Moses, David, Solomon, Zechariah, John the Baptist and Jesus were monotheists who had no idea of some bizarre triune god.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Faiz,
You are right, the NT is a polemic against history, as it rewrites the narrative of God and his prophets and it flatly contradicts the OT.
And why is it that all of the disciples who actually knew Jesus and were taught by him, agree with and teach God, repentance, and the Kingdom (or salvation) which is what Muhammad taught as well. While it seems to be that the one guy, Paul of Tarsus, who NEVER knew Jesus, and was never taught by him, teaches the diametric opposite?
How do we know that Paul wasn’t engaged in some type of Cointel-program working for the Romans to co-opt and subvert the budding Christian movement in its infancy? Because it seems a lot like that is what happened.
P.S. ~ Ibn Awad smashed trey! 🙂
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Indeed, Quran addresses all kinds of people’s beliefs whether christians of today consider it orthodoxy or not since the “orthodox” belief has no meaning in regard of history as dr. Bart Ehrman has explained .
All disciples of Jesus, for example, are “nothing” according to Paul’s religion. Histrically, there’re christianities not one christianity as may people think.
Reqarding Alhajar Al aswad, Kabba, and Maqam Ibraheem, thses are not gods. Read the book of Rev about new Jerusalem or about the temple of jews or their tent in OT. On the other hand, your salvation depends on a cross which carried your almighty god! You worship a human being literally.
LikeLiked by 2 people
LOL, little man Trey cannot ever refute Muslims so he always tries to divert. Brother Ibn Awad completely schooled this pathetic clown, so Bozo responded by using a tu quoque. Hahahaha!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Great points with regards to John the Baptist.
Great points!
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Yes, Paul made some great points in relation to John the Baptist, teaching on repentance. If we can achieve salvation through the simple act of repentance to God as beautifully taught by John the Baptist Jesus and Muhammad, then why do we need to espouse a belief in faith based redemption through Jesus supposed atonement by Crucifixion?
Christians never seem to see this major contradiction in their own Bible. Such Xtians should take the Jesus goggles off and try reading the actual words on the pages of their book, without the unnecessary baggage of their own man made doctrines and innovations.
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i heard that the qumran sect replaced sacrifice of animal with prayer.
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I mean, Paul, great job in your points. Mashallah.
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