It’s ideas of ‘women = chief caregiver whilst men go out to work’ that give rise to this issue. That has its origins (as does everything else in the image) in the pre-established gender roles assigned by the patriarchy.
If you believe that then you can’t complain in an ironic fashion about male privilege. It’s that system that tells women they can’t do the dangerous work and that it’s a man’s duty to.
Pithy remarks that demonstrate what an absurd assertion that is? Actually no, I’ll stick with them.
Like maybe the dudes with the biggest beards from every tribe and hunter/gatherer band way back when all got together from all around the world, sat down and said “look y’all… them womenfolk need to stay home and let us do our thing,” to unanimous agreement?
I just think you’re putting your horse before your cart when you try to blame some vague “patriarchy” on conspiratorially “assigning gender roles.”
Ah, so why exactly then has it traditionally been the case that men are expected to go off and do the work whilst women are expected to stay at home and look after the kids? Why is it that until recently women weren’t allowed to serve in combat roles, whilst men were expected to ‘do their duty’?
What would you say is the cause of the issues in the picture?
What would I say? I wouldn’t. Human history is long and very complex; but I’m certainly not so simplistic as to hang blame squarely on some mysterious cabal that needs to have existed at the OUTSET of almost every civilization and society from AT LEAST the beginnings of recorded history. And I didn’t think you were that simplistic either, to be honest.
But if you’re going to blame “the patriarchy” for “assigning gender roles,” I’m going to blame “the Illuminati” for “assigning my eye color.”
You totally misrepresent what the idea of a patriarchal society is. I never presented it as some sort of shadowy organisation – however, society (particularly in the past) has often organised itself along the idea that men = strong workers and women = weak caregivers. This idea is even enshrined in the roles God apparently gave to men and women. To suddenly complain about male military deaths, whilst simultaneously speaking about what ‘God intended through nature’, is to criticise God’s plan, is it not?
In the end, you either accept the roles God apparently assigned to each gender, in which case you don’t complain about the outcomes, or you don’t accept the roles God gave each gender… which is it?
The ‘complaint’ being made is a classic example of the narrow-minded focus of men’s rights activists, who love to suggest that it is in fact men who are the disadvantaged ones in society, yet at the same time they want to prop up the ideals that cause the very problems they complain about.
In fact, as a follow on to my reply, one could say that you’re right – it’s not the patriarchy per se, but rather, God. That’s an argument put forward earlier on – that God set gender roles. Therefore, complaining about the irony of male privilege in such a fashion is to complain about God’s plan for the different roles men and women should have in society.
Darthimon, don’t be daft. The irony is that feminists like you claim that men are so privileged while in fact the above mentioned statistics is true. We are not complaining about our plight. We are complaining about your hypocrisy.
Actually, a lot of men’s rights activists and MGTOWs claim feminism is responsible for these problems. Not only are they wrong, they seek to hold in place the systems that maintain these problems, so where does the hypocrisy really lie?
Bottom line, you can’t argue in favour of preset gender roles (especially if you argue it’s part of God’s ‘plan’) and then complain about the outcome.
The other side of the coin is of course that the majority of high achievers in most fields are also men. For example around 95% of the Nobel prize winners are male. However, most men are neither Lex Luthor nor Superman, just plain ordinary. But there is a difference in the sense that women tend to be frequent at the extreme ends, and cluster more around the mean value. To use statistical terminology, the standard deviation for women is less than that for men.
I’ve already explained where the hypocrisy lies. Just because you repeat the same argument twice doesn’t make it twice as good. Feminism isn’t responsible for all these problems. It’s, however, responsible for the fact that men lose much more custody battles. According to your logic patriarchy is responsible for everything. If men won the majority of the custody battles, you would blame it on patriarchy as well.
You haven’t explained anything. The implication of the original post is an argument I have seen many times from so-called Men’s Rights Activists and MGTOWs, who love to complain about the evils of feminism and how society is actually unfairly weighted against men. They point to the problems listed above but refuse point-blank to consider where the problem actually lies. Nor do they do anything about it – they just whine about feminism.
This is the purpose of the original post. It’s a subtle yet ultimately inaccurate attempt to apportion blame in the wrong direction, followed by a defence of the very ideals that created those problems in the first place. That truly is hypocrisy in action, right there. Don’t like the historical gender roles that give rise to men doing the dangerous work? Don’t like the traditions that mean men are more likely to be suicide victims? Then don’t uphold the institutions that created those issues in the first place.
You’re flat wrong regarding feminism and custody battles too, and it couldn’t be more obvious as to why. Historically, women have been regarded as the primary caregivers, indeed in some societies their only purpose has been to have and raise children, because it’s the man’s role to go out and work.
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You can thank the historical impact of patriarchal thinking for those issues.
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Is patriarchal (or feminine) thinking responsible for men regularly losing custody battles?
Somehow I doubt the numbers would me much different in a Matriarchal world.
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It’s ideas of ‘women = chief caregiver whilst men go out to work’ that give rise to this issue. That has its origins (as does everything else in the image) in the pre-established gender roles assigned by the patriarchy.
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it is the natural God-ordained way of things. Feminism is a rebellion against nature.
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If you believe that then you can’t complain in an ironic fashion about male privilege. It’s that system that tells women they can’t do the dangerous work and that it’s a man’s duty to.
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“Gender roles assigned by the patriarchy”
Was there a meeting or something? Down at Ye Olde Patriarchy Arms?
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Got a better explanation or just pithy remarks?
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Pithy remarks that demonstrate what an absurd assertion that is? Actually no, I’ll stick with them.
Like maybe the dudes with the biggest beards from every tribe and hunter/gatherer band way back when all got together from all around the world, sat down and said “look y’all… them womenfolk need to stay home and let us do our thing,” to unanimous agreement?
I just think you’re putting your horse before your cart when you try to blame some vague “patriarchy” on conspiratorially “assigning gender roles.”
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Ah, so why exactly then has it traditionally been the case that men are expected to go off and do the work whilst women are expected to stay at home and look after the kids? Why is it that until recently women weren’t allowed to serve in combat roles, whilst men were expected to ‘do their duty’?
What would you say is the cause of the issues in the picture?
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What would I say? I wouldn’t. Human history is long and very complex; but I’m certainly not so simplistic as to hang blame squarely on some mysterious cabal that needs to have existed at the OUTSET of almost every civilization and society from AT LEAST the beginnings of recorded history. And I didn’t think you were that simplistic either, to be honest.
But if you’re going to blame “the patriarchy” for “assigning gender roles,” I’m going to blame “the Illuminati” for “assigning my eye color.”
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You totally misrepresent what the idea of a patriarchal society is. I never presented it as some sort of shadowy organisation – however, society (particularly in the past) has often organised itself along the idea that men = strong workers and women = weak caregivers. This idea is even enshrined in the roles God apparently gave to men and women. To suddenly complain about male military deaths, whilst simultaneously speaking about what ‘God intended through nature’, is to criticise God’s plan, is it not?
In the end, you either accept the roles God apparently assigned to each gender, in which case you don’t complain about the outcomes, or you don’t accept the roles God gave each gender… which is it?
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I’m not the one complaining. But the complaint here is very obviously, to me, being made ironically.
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The ‘complaint’ being made is a classic example of the narrow-minded focus of men’s rights activists, who love to suggest that it is in fact men who are the disadvantaged ones in society, yet at the same time they want to prop up the ideals that cause the very problems they complain about.
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In fact, as a follow on to my reply, one could say that you’re right – it’s not the patriarchy per se, but rather, God. That’s an argument put forward earlier on – that God set gender roles. Therefore, complaining about the irony of male privilege in such a fashion is to complain about God’s plan for the different roles men and women should have in society.
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LOL
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Enjoying your male previlage?
You’re a masochistic….lol.
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Darthimon, don’t be daft. The irony is that feminists like you claim that men are so privileged while in fact the above mentioned statistics is true. We are not complaining about our plight. We are complaining about your hypocrisy.
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Actually, a lot of men’s rights activists and MGTOWs claim feminism is responsible for these problems. Not only are they wrong, they seek to hold in place the systems that maintain these problems, so where does the hypocrisy really lie?
Bottom line, you can’t argue in favour of preset gender roles (especially if you argue it’s part of God’s ‘plan’) and then complain about the outcome.
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The other side of the coin is of course that the majority of high achievers in most fields are also men. For example around 95% of the Nobel prize winners are male. However, most men are neither Lex Luthor nor Superman, just plain ordinary. But there is a difference in the sense that women tend to be frequent at the extreme ends, and cluster more around the mean value. To use statistical terminology, the standard deviation for women is less than that for men.
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…correction: women tend to be LESS frequent at the extreme ends.
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I’ve already explained where the hypocrisy lies. Just because you repeat the same argument twice doesn’t make it twice as good. Feminism isn’t responsible for all these problems. It’s, however, responsible for the fact that men lose much more custody battles. According to your logic patriarchy is responsible for everything. If men won the majority of the custody battles, you would blame it on patriarchy as well.
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You haven’t explained anything. The implication of the original post is an argument I have seen many times from so-called Men’s Rights Activists and MGTOWs, who love to complain about the evils of feminism and how society is actually unfairly weighted against men. They point to the problems listed above but refuse point-blank to consider where the problem actually lies. Nor do they do anything about it – they just whine about feminism.
This is the purpose of the original post. It’s a subtle yet ultimately inaccurate attempt to apportion blame in the wrong direction, followed by a defence of the very ideals that created those problems in the first place. That truly is hypocrisy in action, right there. Don’t like the historical gender roles that give rise to men doing the dangerous work? Don’t like the traditions that mean men are more likely to be suicide victims? Then don’t uphold the institutions that created those issues in the first place.
You’re flat wrong regarding feminism and custody battles too, and it couldn’t be more obvious as to why. Historically, women have been regarded as the primary caregivers, indeed in some societies their only purpose has been to have and raise children, because it’s the man’s role to go out and work.
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