Not saying I agree with it all but it is thought provoking.
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Not saying I agree with it all but it is thought provoking.
Categories: Terrorism
Blogging Theology 
See this one as well
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I’m sorry but ANYONE who believes the official fairytale story is just plain STUPID!
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It’s very interesting! It seems anything is possible with those who worship money!
Ron Paul ( What if )
” And never think that Allah is unaware of what the wrongdoers do. He only delays them for a Day when eyes will stare [in horror].
Racing ahead, their heads raised up, their glance does not come back to them, and their hearts are void.” QT 14:42-43
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9/11 was the USS Liberty 2.0.
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🙃
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What happened? Muslims hijacked planes and killed thousands. That’s what happened
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Paulus
And Christians voted for war in some Muslim majority countries which has no single hijacker in the plane, to preach their religion by force and failed to achieve their goal.
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No Paulus. Extremists carried out the attacks, not the entirety of Islam.
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Where did he say the entirety of Islam carried out the attack?
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Paulus
The evangelical Christians of the southern USA have over 80% voted for Donald Trump to ban Muslims from entering USA and they also support his hatred, discrimination, white supremacist etc. policies.
What is happening in Myanmar(Burma)? The Buddhist terrorist are killing Muslim minorities including babies like how Jesus commanded in the Bible.
Muslims never killed babies and non combatants.
Do you have concern on killing innocents?
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Christians did not “vote for war”.
Some of them voted for a person, who happened to be in office later, when the Al Qaedah terrorists attacked FIRST (and had already done smaller attacks for several years during the Bill Clinton years (first one from 1993 bombing of World Trade Center, etc.) , some from Sudan & later Afghanistan – I remember seeing Ben Laden being interviewed and his group firing guns at pictures of Bill Clinton, before 9-11-2001 and other attacks like the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, Oct. of 2000); and since the Taliban in Afghanistan allowed them safe haven for training camps for SEVERAL Years, the response of justice and punishment was carried out in Afghanistan, then later, when they thought Saddam Hussein MIGHT do something (since he had been playing games of deception with UN inspectors for 13 years) with what they thought that he had weapons of mass destruction (which could have been transported out to Syria, according to some reports, and in fact, Bashir Al Assad actually did use those chemical weapons against his own people later. Hafez Al Assad and Bashir Al Assad have the same basic marxist theology mixed with Islam (either Sunni in Iraq or Shiite Alawite in Syria) and Arab nationalism ( = Baathist ideology). Sadaam changed the flag of Iraq and put “Allah o Akbar” in their while being attacked just to appeal more to the average Muslim, to try and show he was more religious that he actually was. It was a tweaking of his Baathist ideology.
I am not saying I agree with the 2003 war starting in Iraq, all I am saying is that you need to be more accurate in the details.
The reasons that Christians voted for George W. Bush (before 2001, in 2000) was because he is pro-life (against abortion), and against homosexuality and same-sex marriage, and seemed to believe in religious principles OVER the liberal Democrats (Al Gore and John Kerry, and those like them like Bill and Hillary Clinton), who always promote abortion (murder) and homosexuality and big government spending and the philosophy of government taking the place of personal responsibility and God.
When the Al Qaedah terrorists attacked, the responses, from the US average person perspective, are understood as “just war” – fighting back because they first attacked the USA. But conservatives who vote for Republicans are made up of three kinds of voters: 1. Those that put military and self defense and patriotism first, 2. those that put financial economic issues first, and 3. those Christians who put moral / ethical issues first. Many in the # 1 and # 2 categories are not Evangelical Christians.
This is just to help you and other understand a little better. I am not saying I agree with everything else that Republicans do. (or secret things we don’t know about; that some of these conspiracy videos say – but they can also doctor up videos and leave out information. Hard to believe so much behind the scenes coordination.)
I agree with Dr. James White’s approach to evangelism and debating with Muslims, rather than the emphasis of others like Robert Spencer, etc.
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how can that son of a bitch be pro life when he is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqis ?
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“Pro-Life” means “against murdering babies in the womb” (abortion) in the context of American politics.
He and his advisors were naive about what would happen, granted, and the whole thing is a great tragedy, granted. They thought it was bringing more justice and democracy and more political freedom from a dictator and freedom for the Shiites in the south and Kurds in the north.
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American politics does not apply overseas?
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Sure, but no one knows the future and no one votes for all and everything that one person does or believes in, or might do in the future. People vote for the one they think is better than the other one. (even while not really liking totally the one they vote for; and some don’t vote at all; and some vote for other lesser known candidates.)
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You voted for a president whose father bombed Iraq in 1992.
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??
Look up the facts and the year.
The Kuwaiti’s love George H. W. Bush for getting Saddam’s forces out of Kuwait.
It was Saddam’s fault for attacking Kuwait and setting lots of oil fields on fire.
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Ken Temple
When the Al Qaedah terrorists attacked, the responses, from the US average person perspective, are understood as “just war” – fighting back because they first attacked the USA. But conservatives who vote for Republicans are made up of three kinds of voters: 1. Those that put military and self defense and patriotism first, 2. those that put financial economic issues first, and 3. those Christians who put moral / ethical issues first. Many in the # 1 and # 2 categories are not Evangelical Christians.
I say;
Why do you always blame our prophet who was also a head of state and president who fights back? You always blame verses in the Quran that says fight back without understanding the verses.
Watch one brilliant Muslim who destroyed David Wood and Robert Spencer on Quran verses. They have to wait for few days to add an appendix to the video to save face.
The West has been attacking and bombing other nations first.
Thanks.
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Surah 2:190-191 is about fighting back after first attacked and I understand that; and Surah 2 was revealed around 624 AD, a little bit after the Hijra, and yet Mohammad started it in 622 AD and justified first attacking the caravans.
But Surah 9 does not say, “if they first attack you”; no; it says fight them for what they believe and don’t forbid. 9:5 and 9:29-30; and the proof is that Umar Ibn Al Khattab and most of the Caliphs that came after him started all out wars against everybody until they were stopped.
Under Umar, the 2nd Caliph – he started all the Islamic aggression.
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” And never think that Allah is unaware of what the wrongdoers do. He only delays them for a Day when eyes will stare [in horror].
Racing ahead, their heads raised up, their glance does not come back to them, and their hearts are void.” QT 14:42-43
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”
The Kuwaiti’s love George H. W. Bush for getting Saddam’s forces out of Kuwait.
It was Saddam’s fault for attacking Kuwait and setting lots of oil fields on fire.”
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No Christian agrees with “white supremacy” or hatred; NONE. if anyone claims to be a Christian and does agree with stuff, they are not true Christians.
The ban is not a total ban on all Muslims – since Moroccans, Egyptians, Albanians, Saudis, Pakistanis, Malays, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Indonesians, Turkey, etc. who are all Muslim majority countries and are not banned. And the ban is temporary and there are exceptions. It is only for those 6 countries (Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Syria, Iran, and the Sudan) that have chaos or war in them and have large groups of Al Qaeda and ISIS and Al Shabbab type Muslim terrorists. (or a government like Iran)
It is more accurately “a temporary travel restriction” on people coming from those certain countries UNTIL they can figure out “what the hell is going on” with “to keep radical Islamic extremists out” (Donald Trump’s words).
So, it not a “Muslim ban”. Stop repeating lies of the liberal secular atheistic leftists.
It is: “temporary travel restrictions on those 6 countries” or “extreme vetting”; – at least you need to be more accurate on what the thing actually is.
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In his campaign promise, Donald Trump said he will ban Muslims from entering USA. Not six Muslim majority countries. The evangelical Christians gave him a standing ovation. Iran has no isis, but Saudi Arabia has most hijackers in the 9/11 and was not banned.
He did not say travel restriction as you said, but he said “total and complete shut down of Muslims entering USA”
Ken, the proof I submitted proved you lied not me. I don’t lie. I say the truth. Prove if you did not lie by defending and supporting Donald Trump
Proof:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/dec/08/donald-trump-calls-for-complete-ban-on-muslims-entering-the-us-video
I provided a you a video that proved me right Ken.
Thanks.
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Yes, Trump did say that at first during the campaign; and it was stupid. That was typical bombastic over the top speech that he always does. He has almost no self-discipline.
But no one agreed with him on that !!! and he quickly changed it and the position evolved and he got advice from Obama’s State Department on those 6 countries, that started with 7, but later took Iraq off the list.
And the only policy he has implemented is the temporary travel restriction on people coming from those 6 countries.
You don’t seem to understand that he changed his position and what the actual policy is right now.
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quote:
The verse [Q. 9:29] commands qitāl (قتال) and not qatl (قتل), and it is known that there is a big distinction between these two words … For you say ‘qataltu (قتلت) so-and-so’ if you initiated the fighting, while you say ‘qātaltu (قاتلت) him’ if you resisted his effort to fight you by a reciprocal fight, or if you forestalled him in that so that he would not get at you unawares.
quote :
In 9:29 it is an interactive form QAATILOO and that means that the other part is willing or desiring to fight or fight back and so on and not committed to a peaceful resolution of the issues at hand that are mentioned in the Aya.
quote:
Qaatala: form 3, implies a mutual; interactive sense.
This “may” imply the element of being provocated prior to engagement, however we know that this meaning is implied regardless by other verses throughout the Quran which instruct fighting/killing ONLY in state of defense; the notion of “Laa ikraaha fee-d Deen” [There is absolutely no compulsion in religion whatsoever]; and so on – none of which imply the notion of Islam being an imperialistic ideology that seeks to IMPOSE and CONQUER the globe through physical force, not at all.
The Quran does however validate the notion of self defense and therefore the “inclination to peaceful reconciliation” in the absence of threat.
Furthermore, we find that military conduct in the Islamic sense is essentially “non-maleficent” and seeks to REMOVE THE GREATER HARM from reality, not instigate harm in its absence. The word used in the Quran in this sense is “fasaad” (translated as corruption) but literally means or refers to “that which MAKES THINGS WORSE” [fasaad].
Hence, from the outset the Quranic notion of “jihaad” [struggling] and “qaatiloo fee-s Sabeelillah” [killing in the way specifically ordained by God] is not a matter to be taken lightly and can only be genuine in the sense that such fighting etc MAKES MATTERS BETTER (i.e. islaah).
This notion of spreading the Islamic religion [deenu-l Islaam] by the sword has no basis in the Quran whatsoever which only contradicts it, and such imperialism was only employed by those muslims in the past who were ignorant of the Quran’s teachings.
Reality and history alone testifies to the outright chaos which ensued and plagued the Muslim nation immediately after the Prophet’s (s) death (may Allah forgive their lesser judgement), but under no circumstance should we feel obliged to re-live their mistakes.
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Eemaan [faith; trust; substantial belief] in this sense, cannot be imposed but follows as a natural consequence of one’s own experience and knowledge – hence why Islam flourishes where political imposition of it is absent
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This notion of spreading the Islamic religion [deenu-l Islaam] by the sword has no basis in the Quran
That is not what Surah 8:39 and many Hadith say.
“And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease – then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.” Surah 8:39
Fitnah فتنه means chaos, tumult, rebellion, mutiny
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ), and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.”
حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ الْمُسْنَدِيُّ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو رَوْحٍ الْحَرَمِيُّ بْنُ عُمَارَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ وَاقِدِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبِي يُحَدِّثُ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ “ أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أُقَاتِلَ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَشْهَدُوا أَنْ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ وَأَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ، وَيُقِيمُوا الصَّلاَةَ، وَيُؤْتُوا الزَّكَاةَ، فَإِذَا فَعَلُوا ذَلِكَ عَصَمُوا مِنِّي دِمَاءَهُمْ وَأَمْوَالَهُمْ إِلاَّ بِحَقِّ الإِسْلاَمِ، وَحِسَابُهُمْ عَلَى اللَّهِ ”.
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 25
In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 18
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 25
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quote:
Verse 8:39 does not say “fight them until there is no more Fitna (disbelief) and the religion will all be for Allah Alone.” First and foremost, your definition of “Fitna” is wrong and straight out of the twisted Islamophobe dictionary. When one commits Fitna, one would be considered an unbeliever in doing so, but Fitna most certainly does not mean simply “disbelief” in God or Islam. In Islam there already is a very specific and unambiguous word for such disbelief: “Kufr” (and “Kafir” for disbeliever). Fitna implies acts of sedition, instigating civil war, or causing severe disorder, motivated by persecution and oppression.
It is actually defined quite well by its very first usage in the Quran, verse 2:217, which lists oppressions against Muslims in preventing them from practicing their faith, and includes the unambiguous implication that fighting against Fitna means fighting in self-defense against religious persecution and oppression by those who “seek war against you till they turn you away from your faith, if they can.” In other words, fighting against Fitna means fighting for the freedom of religion by Muslims, NOT fighting by Muslims to impose religion on those who are not Muslims. That is why, when the freedom to practice the whole of Islam is restored, verse 8:39 ends with “until … the way of life (“l-dinu”), the whole of it (“kulluhu”), (is) for God” (i.e., unitl the way of life, religion, of Muslims is restored).
However, what puts the final nail in the coffin of this Islamophobic interpretation of Fitna as “disbelief”, particularly in the context of verse 8:39, is the very end of verse 8:39 along with the immediately following verse, 8:40: “If they desist [in Fitna], then verily God sees all that they do. But if they refuse, be sure that God is your Protector – the Best to protect and the Best to help.” If Fitna simply means “disbelief”, then why would Muslims need protection (emphasized twice) to defend against harmless expressions of disbelief? Moreover, if Muslims are supposed to fight unbelievers simply because of their disbelief, why would Muslims effectively be told to leave the unbelievers alone here if they desist in Fitna, and to instead leave their accountability to God alone, as clearly implied by the idiomatic expression “…then verily God sees all that they do”?
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I did not say Fitnah means “unbelief”. Look again; I wrote:
Fitnah فتنه means chaos, tumult, rebellion, mutiny
which agrees with a lot of what you wrote, about the word.
Fitna implies acts of sedition, instigating civil war, or causing severe disorder, . . .
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You cannot escape that Surah 8:39 and 9:5 and 9:29, being almost last revealed, around 630-632 AD, before Muhammad died; were interpreted by Abu Bakr and also by Umar Ibn Al Khattab and most Caliphs afterward as all out war and conquering the world for Allah – the whole development of the Dar Al Islam vs. Dar Al Harb comes from this and verses that say “the whole World belongs to Allah”.
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when did i say you said fitna means unbelief? the quotes job was to DEMOLISH your claim
“That is not what Surah 8:39 and many Hadith say.”
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Ken Temple
September 13, 2017 • 8:46 pm
You cannot escape that Surah 8:39 and 9:5 and 9:29, being almost last revealed, around 630-632 AD, before Muhammad died; were interpreted by Abu Bakr and also by Umar Ibn Al Khattab and most Caliphs afterward as all out war and conquering the world for Allah – the whole development of the Dar Al Islam vs. Dar Al Harb comes from this and verses that say “the whole World belongs to Allah”.
I say;
Why is Christians still exists in Muslim majority countries, unlike no Muslim was found in Christian majority countries until war broke out and the liberals won and implemented freedom of religion?
History proved you wrong Ken. Christians were never forced to convert as evidenced with indigenous/native Christians still exists in the Muslim majority countries. If Caliph Umar and the rest understood and interpret Quran like you, David Wood, Robert Spencer and other Islamophobes, there would not have been a single Christian in the Muslim majority lands like how crusaders killed every one including those Christians who do not share their believes i.e. Calvin ordering the killing of Michael, Protestant force converting Muslim slave from West Africa and killing Catholics in the USA.
You, Robert, David, Jay and other Islamophobes interpreting our scriptures without any advanced knowledge of classical Arabic is a disservice to mankind because you are promoting your wishful thinking for your whims. It is not good.
This one is also good for your watching. The Quran is only about fighting those who fight Muslims but not the other way round.
Robert Spencer was caught by Shadid Lewis quoting verses and hiding the their endings to promote his hatred for Islam. That is not good.
Watch. It took years with persuation by Shadid before the Church that took the video to release it. That is typical hide and seek from Christian missionaries. The chapter of war is about those who fight Muslims and it was clearly stated, non combatant must not be harmed or force converted.
Thanks.
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I did not say that there were not Christian minorities like the Copts in Egypt and small groups that came from the ancient Assyrian, Armenian, Byzantine churches – Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox – 5 or 6 % or less; except Egypt has 10-12 %.
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No Sir, my dear Reverend. Donald Trump is wise when he insults Muslims because he knows that is the only way to get him elected from the conservatives, evangelical Christians as he calls them dump who will vote for anyone who will say what they want even if he and them are not telling the truth.
Proof:
Ken, we know everything because of alternate media. It is only conservatives/evangelical Christians who rely on FOX news that always talk negative against Islam.
We see how republican candidates poll goes high anytime they insult Islam and Muslims. So, you cannot tell us what the supporters of Trump are up to.
Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Herman Cain etc. and most of the republican candidates have insulted Islam and Muslims one way or the other and that is the challenge for every republican candidate to get elected. We know that. Herman Cain was nearly elected by the conservatives because of his hard line stance on Islam and Muslims but he was a womanizer. This time the republican decided they will take a womanizer Donald Trump to do their job for them because they can’t wait for another four years.
Thanks.
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No, “Intellect”,
The whole situation is much more complicated that what you have written.
Most people know that all Muslims are not terrorists or Jihadists (in the Al Qaeda / Isis / and even Hamas sense).
Many other issues are involved in elections, but Islamic terror and how those Al Qaeda / Isis types use the gracious and soft immigration lack of enforcing laws for the past 30-40 years, along with other illegal immigration, along with other economic and social issues. (big government, taxes, abortion, homosexuality, global warming debate, regulations on businesses, etc. )
there are a lot of issues and it is much more complicated that just Donald Trump’s crazy & ignorant statements.
Western politicans don’t know much about Islam, true.
That is why I agree with James White’s balanced and good attempts of evangelism and apologetics in his debates and outreaches to Muslims – for respect and understanding and also being able to explain Christian truths and doctrines.
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Ken Temple
You said;
Many other issues are involved in elections, but Islamic terror and how those Al Qaeda / Isis types use the gracious and soft immigration lack of enforcing laws for the past 30-40 years, along with other illegal immigration, along with other economic and social issues. (big government, taxes, abortion, homosexuality, global warming debate, regulations on businesses, etc. )
I say;
It is only “equal rights and justice” to borrow from Peter Tosh that can solve the above problems and not immigration. Some of the terrorists were born in the USA, Britian, Holland, Spain etc.
These immigrants were there in those countries in 1960, 61,62 etc. and there was no single Muslim suicide bombing in the whole world in 1960 except may be Israel who are murdering the Palestinians.
Before your time line of 40 years, there isn’t much “Muslim terrorists” because there was less US invasion in the Muslim world. This will tell you that all these “Muslim terrorists” affair is not about Islam but it is about “equal rights and justice”.
Of course any oppressed or aggressor would like to attach religion to his cause like al Qaeda, zionists, kkk, crusaders etc.
We, the people with intellect know in all religions there are those who think violence and those who think peace. Why will not peaceful Christian and peaceful Muslims etc. come and fight the violent ones like how Muslims are fighting isis in Iraq?
Let’s fight Donald Trump and his supporters as Dr. James White always does to show them that immigration is not the problem but “equal rights and justice”.
I commend you Dr. James White and other Christians and Jews who offered their Churches and Synagogues to pray because other Christians has burned their Mosques.
I know Hamas are taking care of their Christian citizens who are native/indigenous Gazans but the Zionist support helicopter gunships normally bombs the Mosques and the Churches to exterminate the Palestinians for Jews to return there. If Jesus ordered this as some Christians believe, then it is Jesus Christ to be blamed for this injustice and not Hamas.
Thanks.
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people have no right to go illegally to another country and claim “equal rights and justice” issues.
Hamas quotes from the Hadith in their constitution :
“fighting agains the Jews will not cease until the last day”
That is an evil Hadith.
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Yaser Arafat quoted from the Sira and Hadith in Arabic about his deceptions to the western media in his negotiations. He and the PLO and Hamas discredited themselves in their struggle. Zionism is not Biblical and they are not the “kingdom of God” being restored, but modern Israel has the right to exist. The problem is that it is the Muslims who NEVER accepted even the 1948 2 state plan, and the Muslims attacked first and the Muslims have NEVER given Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi, etc. their human rights to become citizens of those countries; instead they have been using them as political “footballs” in the whole controversy.
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Abu Bakr took 9:5 as permission to fight all the apostates who didn’t pay Zakat, etc. and unify the Arabian peninsula again.
And with the Hadith:
“no other religion will be allowed in Arabia” (no paganism, no Judaism, no Christianity, and no Magi (Zoroastrians) were allowed, based on these many Hadith.
https://sunnah.com/search/expel-arabian-peninsula
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Ken Temple
Where did Abubakar said he took 9:5 as permission to fight all the apostates who didn’t pay Zakat? Yes, when the Pagan Arabs keep breaking treaties, they were fought and Kaaba if free from worshiping naked with idols. If Jesus is a ruler he would have prevented the worship of idols in nakedness in the house of God build by Abraham and his son, to worship only one God who is Alone.
Jesus ransacked peoples tables and chairs, so he would have prevented the worship of other Gods in the house of God. What is your problem Rt. Reverent Ken?
Jesus said;
New International Version
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.’
Jesus as God ordered the killing of apostates. Jesus destroyed tables and chairs belonging to other people and uttered racial slur on a woman who does not belong to his race. All these violent was done when Jesus was not a head of state or president. If he becomes head of state, a sword in his mouth will murder anyone who will not obey him.
If you are really worried about violence and killing of apostates, you must be consistent and blame Jesus Christ first before blaming others.
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Sorry, it seems he took the many Hadith that way; even though Umar asked him why? Seems Abu Bakr interpreted not paying Zakat as the same as becoming a Kufar, which is in Surah 9:5.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/96/16
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Zakat(tax) is for Muslims and not for apostates or non Muslims. Jizya tax which is lower and paid once annually is for non Muslims living under Muslim rule. It means Islam is not a force religion. 9:5 is for the Pagan Arabs who keeps breaking their treaty.
If they accepted Islam, then they have to pay their taxes to the government(Abubakar) as they used to do when the prophet was alive. In the USA, the IRS will fight anyone who will not pay his tax. So what is the problem with this one?
Abubakar or Umar never said they will use 9:5 to force convert anyone. In the olden days there was warfare everywhere and Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. have fought wars and it is not Muslims alone. The good thing about Islam is that we have rule for war in the Quran, hadith and other commands from Islam rulers to to kill non combatants, women, children, monks, not destroy farm, trees, livestock and any thing good that is not part of the war.
That is why Christians from the time of Umar still remain where they were in the Muslim majority lands. Christians killed Jews and Muslims in Spain, Palestine etc. and still banning Muslims under Donald Trump.
Thanks.
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correction
I mean not to kill non combatants…………
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Ken,
You know that your country has 800 military bases around the world.
Your country has been established on the skulls of the indigenous people, in the land that you live in right now, by force and violence .
Your country is based on the capitalism. (i.e. how to steal to become rich).
Your prophet paul teach you strongly to obey the pagan dictatorship of Rome ( the 4th pagan kingdom in Daniel 2 ) for he believed that they were the servants of God.
Christians as religious people have been involving in the most bloody record in the humanity.
Do you really think that you have the right to preach to us about peace?
Do you really think you can compare your history with mercy of Islam, which is a fulfillment of many prophecies in your own bible?
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What happened in history that required so many military bases around the world?
Yes, many mistakes were made in dealing with the North American “Indians” and many sins; but we have already admitted that openly and it is common knowledge. It was not Christianity that did that though; as in the west there has always been a tension between the secularists / government / selfish “capitalists” (Capitalism is good if it is balanced with a proper moral world-view of Christian ethics.)
The problems and sins that everyone knows about is (Crusades, Inquisitions, slavery, treatment of American Indians, etc.) is caused when the sinful human nature (selfishness, pride) takes over in political and military power and economic power and violates God’s ethics and laws.
Yes, we have the right to ask questions and discuss issues of war and peace from the texts –
Because:
1. Paul Williams and Muslims bring up the subject all the time by articles and videos like the recent Philip Jenkins simplistic lecture.
2. The post here is “What happened on September 11, 2001?” and since it was some Muslims like Al Qaeda and Bin Laden, etc. and they based their “taking action” on the Qur’an and Hadith and the writings of Sayeed Qutb and Hassan Al Banna’s, it is a form of Islam and they base their terrorism on Islamic texts and that movement morphed into ISIS when there was a vacuum.
The Iraq War that started in 2003 was badly conceived and badly carried out; but it was even worse when a vacuum was left in 2011-2014 for ISIS to form.
Because people behave badly – all history is a testimony to the sinful nature of mankind – (Hitler and Japan in WW 2, and Russian Communism/Marxism trying to take over the world, and now N. Korea threatening nuclear attacks on S. Korea and Japan and USA, etc. and Islamic terrorism of Al Qaeda and ISIS type stuff all over the world, yes; the military bases are a good thing. We believe in just war and defense.
Paul Williams putting up a video of that nature naturally is going to lead to the discussion and debate about war and history and Islamic texts (Surah 8, 9, many Hadith, etc.) the Islamic unjust conquests of so many countries and peoples. (starting with Byzantine Empire, North Africa, Spain, and Persia and beyond.)
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What is your Biblical basis for saying the Muslim conquests were unjust?
Brother Abdullah has already alluded to the fact the timing of the conquests coincide with Daniel 2’s stone kingdom.
I would also point out that the rules of engagement involved prohibitions against targeting non-combatants. Unlike the Biblical version of the Israelite conquest of Canaan which involves baby-kilings, burnings and extermination of entire populations. Also, note how in the entire discussion of the wars of the Israelites in the Quran we do not find any comparable passage.
If the Islamic conquests were unjust then the Israelite conquest (Biblical version) would be far more unjust.
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Ken Temple
September 14, 2017 • 12:31 pm
What happened in history that required so many military bases around the world?
Yes, many mistakes were made in dealing with the North American “Indians” and many sins; but we have already admitted that openly and it is common knowledge. It was not Christianity that did that though; as in the west there has always been a tension between the secularists / government / selfish “capitalists” (Capitalism is good if it is balanced with a proper moral world-view of Christian ethics.)
I say;
There is unjust going on in Palestine for a long time that requires peace keeping force to protect life and order but the USA will veto any peace keeping force and Israel continues to grab lands and persecute the Palestinians. Is that what required military bases in other countries? That is double standards.
The secularist/liberals/moderate Christians are those who fought the evangelical/conservative Christians and won the war to free people from the Christian brutalities i.e. slavery, hangings, force conversion, black Churches, White Churches, segregation, racism, no immigration like the conservatives are now doing through Donald Trump etc.
Freedom of religion was forced after the protestants kept persecuting the Catholics and other minorities in the USA.
Was it secularist that persecuted the Catholics? No. It was protestant Christians.
Was it secularist that persecuted the Mormons and brought slaves and force converted them then work in plantations? No. It was White Christians.
Was it secularist that voted for Trump to implement what the Christians used to do? No, it was over 80% of evangelical/conservative Christians.
It is not good to tell us it wasn’t Christians that committed the atrocities in the USA but secularists-who are the ones that kept fighting the conservative Christians to free USA.
I do not agree with some policies of the liberals like gay marriage, but if that is what will free every body in the USA, so be it. I DO NOT SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE AND WILL NEVER SUPPORT IT but I don’t want conservative Christians power as well and which will deprive people their freedoms.
At least there is freedom of religion in several chapters of the Quran and Muslims and Jews co existed with Christians and other faiths as well. Jizya and Zakat is a tax and there is nothing wrong with that. Jesus disciple, Mathew was a tax collector and Jesus never said it is a sin to collect tax. When Matthew goes to collect tax from a wealthy person and that person refused, the authorities will fight him to get the tax as far as he is rich.
IRS in the USA will fight tax defaulters to collect their tax. So, enough of the “they pay Jizya” hype.
Thanks.
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Because people behave badly –
all history is a testimony to the sinful nature of mankind – I should have added others like Hafez Al Assad, Bashir Al Assad, Sadaam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini, Gengis Khan, Timorlang, Mongolian invasions of Persia and Muslim world, etc.
(Hitler and Japan in WW 2, and Russian Communism/Marxism trying to take over the world, and now N. Korea threatening nuclear attacks on S. Korea and Japan and USA, etc. and Islamic terrorism of Al Qaeda and ISIS type stuff all over the world, yes; the military bases are a good thing. We believe in just war and defense.
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“all history is a testimony to the sinful nature of mankind –”
yes, jesus included.
“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
he sounds angry here. very angry.
but here is the question, this is a guy who was suppose to bring in the new covenant and fix the old covenant.
here is something else. do not masters control their pigs and their animals? do not dogs get benefit from the crumbs which fall? jesus only realized this after he was REFUTED by the non-jewish woman. before that meeting, jesus was not a converted man.
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“all history is a testimony to the sinful nature of mankind”
i think you are a baby phobe/ infant phobe and toddler phobe.
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I stand against abortion and liberal / Leftists ideas of killing babies; so you are just nuts in the way you argue.
Families are to teach children right vs. wrong. The reason we have to teach them is because when the child grows up, it starts at around 3 and up, they start asserting their selfish will with “no” and demanding their own selfish way.
That is why parents are suppossed to bring the child up the fear and admonition and instruction of the Lord, and “spanking” (properly done, without anger and only for a certain area) is a valid part of child discipline.
The sinful nature eventually always comes out; and if you don’t teach a child properly, then they grow up to be spoiled, selfish, womanizers (like Bill Clinton and Trump) or worse things – vengeance, bitterness, revenge, and worse, evil criminals and dictators, etc.
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Ken Temple
You left out Christians persecuting and killing themselves i.e. in the early days of Christianity where those Christians who do not believed in God is 3 persons in 1 were persecuted and killed. Arians, Ebionites etc. were murdered by Constantine and his sons.
The Christians went on to kill anyone who do not believed in Christianity and started to kill those who do not share their brand of Christianity.
Proof:
—–
“Along with the religious consequences of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation came deep and lasting political changes. Northern Europe’s new religious and political freedoms came at a great cost, with decades of rebellions, wars and bloody persecutions. The Thirty Years’ War alone may have cost Germany 40 percent of its population.”
http://www.history.com/topics/reformation
—–
The Christian crusaders were at the verge of exterminating the Jews and the Copts when Muslims helped and saved the Copts and the Jews. This history cannot be twisted.
The Christians traveled to USA and killed the indigenous/natives and confiscate their land and went to West Africa and brought the slaves from there to work on plantations, force converted them and hanged them until the war of independence.
Now the Christians are implementing their hatred towards others by voting for a Republican candidate who is racist like Donald Trump. More than 80% of the evangelical conservative Christians support and voted for Donald Trump. His actions is hatred towards other human beings and Christians supports that.
Thanks.
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You have a very simplistic understanding of the details of history.
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“Hafez Al Assad, Bashir Al Assad, Sadaam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini, Gengis Khan, Timorlang, Mongolian invasions of Persia and Muslim world, etc.”
how about god given instructions to moses, david and saul?
are they also included in your list?
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” I should have added others like Hafez Al Assad, Bashir Al Assad, Sadaam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini, Gengis Khan, Timorlang, Mongolian invasions of Persia and Muslim world, etc.”
god told the hebrews to rip open 0-9 months pregnant woman . god sent no guidance to these pregnant women , he wanted their blood. is your god included in your list? is saul, moses , david and jesus included in your list?
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“all history is a testimony to the sinful nature of mankind ”
thank God we created hospitals .
thank God we created an earth terminal in the u.k otherwise everyone would have been electrocuted if something went wrong in the appliances.
christianity advises you to keep your hands unwashed before you eat your meals.
don’t look after yourself ken, you should hate your life.
live in a card board box
go and get PERSECUTED in iraq .
leave your family and join in persecution.
give up your money .
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“Because people behave badly –”
money, houses, electricity, internet corrupts ken
why aren’t you living in a card board box and hate your life like jesus advised you?
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You are unbalanced and apparently don’t understand how we put ALL verses of the 66 books of the bible, understood properly in context and backgrounds, into a coherent unified message.
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“I stand against abortion and liberal / Leftists ideas of killing babies; so you are just nuts in the way you argue.”
you are the nutter. christian women bring into life selfish 1,2 and 3 year old. you are the nutter.
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?
All other women from all nations also bring sinners into the world – unless you teach a child right vs. wrong, they will grow up to be spoiled, unmannered, selfish, undisciplined, bitter and with a spirit of spite and vengeance, or criminal or deviants.
Every culture has a standard of child training and ideas of right vs. wrong.
So every culture actually agrees with the doctrine of the sin nature; (even Islamic culture; they just don’t know it or see that it is true. Rebellion against the truth.
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“All other women from all nations also bring sinners into the world ”
i don’t see infants and toddlers as sinners since they don’t do any sin.
”
– unless you teach a child right vs. wrong, they will grow up to be spoiled, unmannered, selfish, undisciplined, bitter and with a spirit of spite and vengeance, or criminal or deviants.”
how can you TEACH it right when you believe it is BORN with filthy sinful nature?
if it can LEARN what does it use? the SAME filthy nature to do good? then how is it born in sin?
when you look at a child do you see
CRIMINAL?
”
Every culture has a standard of child training and ideas of right vs. wrong.
So every culture actually agrees with the doctrine of the sin nature; (even Islamic culture; they just don’t know it or see that it is true. Rebellion against the truth.”
how many women do you know of that believe that they are teaching their children right and wrong because they have SIN nature? don’t tell me about original sin stained christian women, how many non-chrsitian women believe their child is sin stained?
the non-christian women TEACH because they know that their children ARE CAPABLE of doing good. the whole point of teaching is because good is possible for the child.
christianity teaches you to look at that CRYING infant as a CRIMINAL
how many women tell their child that they are BORN in sin and sin stained and have sinful NATURE?
OTHER than christian women, how many athiest, agnostic, muslim, jewish , hindu, buddhist etc women teach their child that they are sin stained?
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“All other women from all nations also bring sinners ”
why are you lying? the only women who bring sinners are original sin stained christian women. the children born of christian women are CURSED with original sin. other than christian women, how many women see their children as “born in sin” or SINNERS ?
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there is a difference between the opinion of the other women in other cultures vs. the reality of the sinful nature in all humans. (except for the one Jesus Al Masih المسیح )
not seeing them as sinners does not mean that they are right in their assessment.
The Bible says all are sinners, except for Jesus Al Masih, which even the Qu’ran agrees (Surah 19:19)
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“Families are to teach children right vs. wrong. The reason we have to teach them is because when the child grows up, it starts at around 3 and up, they start asserting their selfish will with “no” and demanding their own selfish way.”
That is why parents are suppossed to bring the child up the fear and admonition and instruction of the Lord, and “spanking” (properly done, without anger and only for a certain area) is a valid part of child discipline.
The sinful nature eventually always comes out; and if you don’t teach a child properly, then they grow up to be spoiled, selfish, womanizers (like Bill Clinton and Trump) or worse things – vengeance, bitterness, revenge, and worse, evil criminals and dictators, etc.”
this is the words of child/human phobe.
imagine a christian woman telling her 3 year old “you selfish devil” or “you just care about yourself”
would one think that she needs to see a psychiatrist?
this is the words of child/human phobe.
child is selfish
child wants his own selfish way,
how do we know that when an infant is crying , he does not want his own selfish way?
why does it “start at around 3” ?
why not at 1 or 2?
why not when he is completely an infant?
that crying could all be for selfish reasons.
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”
The sinful nature eventually always comes out; and if you don’t teach a child properly, then they grow up to be spoiled, selfish, womanizers (like Bill Clinton and Trump) or worse things – vengeance, bitterness, revenge, and worse, evil criminals and dictators, etc.”
i wouldn’t be surprised if christian women who nurse their children see them as selfish, womanizers, bitter, evil and criminals.
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“Hamas quotes from the Hadith in their constitution :
“fighting agains the Jews will not cease until the last day”
That is an evil Hadith.”
hitler uses his “lord and savior”
A: existence impels the Jew to lie, and to lie perpetually just as it compels the inhabitants of the northern countries to wear warm clothing
the words of jesus :
B: you are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires… when he lies, he speaks according to his own nature for he is a liar and the father of lies.
both statements were in cultural context where “such rhetoric was often used of opponents”
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“Hamas quotes from the Hadith in their constitution :
“fighting agains the Jews will not cease until the last day”
That is an evil Hadith.”
first question is, why is it evil? it is one semitic group vs another, so why is it evil?
what standard do you have to judge it evil
if god reveals that one group will be against another group till the day of judgement why is it evil?
what standard do you have to judge it evil?
jesus called groups of people evil and adulterous and thought that romans would be replaced by the hand of god. jesus had evil thoughts according to your logic.
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“there is a difference between the opinion of the other women in other cultures vs. the reality of the sinful nature in all humans. (except for the one Jesus Al Masih المسیح )”
so why not judge baby jesus on reality ? REALITY is the word you used. lets show you what the bible says about jesus being born of a woman
let me quote some baby phobe scriptures
Job 25:4- How then can man be in the right before God? How can he who is born of woman be pure?
how can jesus be pure ?
reality says otherwise and we don’t know how selfish and criminal jesus was when he was 3 years of age.
the gospel writers didn’t tell us about his “mine ”
“mine” and “mine”
“not seeing them as sinners does not mean that they are right in their assessment.”
more baby phobe words from a christian criminal.
“The Bible says all are sinners, except for Jesus Al Masih, which even the Qu’ran agrees (Surah 19:19)”
but surah 19:19 came after job 25:4
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“not seeing them as sinners does not mean that they are right in their assessment.”
no, i think the whole world, EVEN christian women see their crying infant as innocent and sinless. the only nutters are people like you.
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Ken said:
” yes; the military bases are a good thing. We believe in just war and defense.”
I told you before that you’re like your prophet Paul who gave the pagan Rome the green card for its job as an empire. You’re hypocrite.
It seems your definition for ” justice” is how the world become in the favour of western benefits culturally & economically.
“but we have already admitted that openly and it is common knowledge. It was not Christianity that did that though; as in the west there has always been a tension between the secularists / government / selfish “capitalists” (Capitalism is good if it is balanced with a proper moral world-view of Christian ethics.)”
Indeed it’s christianity. The christianity of white people as it’s always been. As we see your choices for the presidency of US.
Finally, the prophet pbuh told us the about last war between muslims and christianis. You will be deafetes in Syria. The prophecy tells us that almost 1 million christians will come to Syria to fight.
I’m sure that christians will have all sorts of excuses to justify that war.
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Why did you not send Military bases to protect the Palestinians? Why did you continue to veto even some peace keeping force in Palestine to protect people and property but allow Israel to grab land and persecute Palestinians? Double standards my dear Ken.
Thanks.
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exposing ken temple and william lane craig:
response :
Dr. William Lane Craig issues a confused answer. On the one hand, he admits that Jesus can be viewed as an “imperialist” if we construe that term “broadly.” On the other hand, he wishes to make distinction in the cosmic geography of where any dominion is exercised by Jesus.
If I understand Dr. Craig, he claims that Christ’s empire is heavenly, not earthly.
However, we have abundant evidence in the New Testament that Christ intended to establish his dominion on earth or that he endorsed God’s dominion on earth. One example is in the Lord’s Prayer in Matthew 6:10 (RSV): “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.”
This prayer speaks of a kingdom, and a desire that God exercise power on EARTH, not just in heaven.
Another example, is in Revelation 19:11-16 (RSV), which evangelical Christians consider to be an accurate description of what will occur at Jesus’ Second Coming:
“[11] Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
[12] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed which no one knows but himself.
[13] He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
[14] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, followed him on white horses.
[15] From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
[16] On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.”
Note that he will rule the nations with a rod of iron, and that certainly does not refer to heavenly nations. And does being “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” not qualify one as the most supreme imperialist?
I could literally multiply examples many times over, but I do address this in more detail in Chapter 6 of my book, The Bad Jesus: The Ethics of New Testament Ethics (2015):
http://www.sheffieldphoenix…
Perhaps, Dr. Craig also should start reading more evangelical scholarship that makes the case that Jesus was viewed as an earthy emperor or at least challenged Caesar’s emperorship. See, for example, Joseph Fantin’s book:
https://www.amazon.com/Lord…
Otherwise, Dr. Craig appears uninformed about evangelical scholarship that makes a case similar to mine, but just doesn’t normally use the word “imperialist” for Jesus.
/////////////////////////
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Ken Temple
September 14, 2017 • 3:34 pm
people have no right to go illegally to another country and claim “equal rights and justice” issues.
Hamas quotes from the Hadith in their constitution :
“fighting agains the Jews will not cease until the last day”
That is an evil Hadith.
Ken Temple
September 14, 2017 • 3:39 pm
Yaser Arafat quoted from the Sira and Hadith in Arabic about his deceptions to the western media in his negotiations. He and the PLO and Hamas discredited themselves in their struggle. Zionism is not Biblical and they are not the “kingdom of God” being restored, but modern Israel has the right to exist. The problem is that it is the Muslims who NEVER accepted even the 1948 2 state plan, and the Muslims attacked first and the Muslims have NEVER given Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi, etc. their human rights to become citizens of those countries; instead they have been using them as political “footballs” in the whole controversy
I say;
Hamas, Arafat etc. quotes this or that…….-By Ken Temple of bloggingtheology. And so what what? my dear Reverend.
Oppressed and/or oppressor quoting religious verses to justify his aggression or seek help is done by all religions and not Muslims alone. This shows your bias and support of Israel aggression on innocent Palestinians.
Why? You always blame the Palestinians but not Israel. That is the religious duties of conservative Christians of the USA to put blind eye on the truth.
-Zionist quotes Bible to justify their killing of Palestinians and trying to exterminate them
-KKK and White supremacist quotes Bible to justify their brutalities on blacks
-Hitler quotes Bible to support his genocide on Jews
-Conservative evangelical Christians quotes Bible to support Donald Trumps racist agenda
-And many more.
The experts will tell you that quoting religious text for one’s whims is not always right and you keep bringing it always. Hamas quoting verses does not make it so.
You always tell me Jack Van Impe and his wife, Pat Robertson etc. who quote Bible to support Israel brutalities are not right, why do it to Muslims?
Israelis always use the Bible to seek support from evangelical Christians to support them to cause sin in Palestine by trying to exterminate the Palestinians which they can’t despite the killing of babies in UN marked compound.
Proof:
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
September 14, 2017 • 3:34 pm
people have no right to go illegally to another country and claim “equal rights and justice” issues.
Hamas quotes from the Hadith in their constitution :
“fighting agains the Jews will not cease until the last day”
That is an evil Hadith
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Christian crusaders use this
to kill and exterminate people. Now they are using it to ban Muslims because they can’t go to war with Muslims. It is evil verse said by Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Luke 19:27
New International Version
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.'”
New Living Translation
And as for these enemies of mine who didn’t want me to be their king–bring them in and execute them right here in front of me.'”
You are a dubious Reverend. This Christian woman Reverend has more sense than you.
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
September 14, 2017 • 3:34 pm
people have no right to go illegally to another country and claim “equal rights and justice” issues.
I say;
But you and the evangelical/conservative Christians support Zionist from Europe and all over the world to go to Palestine and kill the indigenous Jews/Muslims/Christians there and take their land. Double standards.
Religious Jews will tell you that, Zionist have no right to go to Palestine and kill the indigenous people(Palestinians) and take up their land.
Proof:
You support other people to go illegally to another country to kill people there and take their land like how White Christians used to do, just to blame it.
Blacks who were born in the USA and African Americans did not go to the USA illegally but are still fighting for “equal rights and justice”. You Ken, came to the USA illegally from Europe through your ancestors. So, is it wrong for you to claim “equal rights and justice”?
You play a nice Christian here but your comments has exposed you as the White supremacist Christian who follow the hatred policies of Donald Trump and his supporters. That is a sin which Jesus Christ will curse.
Thanks.
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