We belong to Allah and to Him we shall return.
Categories: Christian extremism, Death, Islamophobia
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We belong to Allah and to Him we shall return.
Categories: Christian extremism, Death, Islamophobia
Blogging Theology 
Williams I didn’t know you read my posts. What makes this so devastating is the pain that his family are going to carry, especially his baby daughter who will come to realize one day that her baba died way too young.
Like I said before, this world really sucks.
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Change your pathetic nickname. It doesn’t fit you since Sami nailed you to the wall.
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Believer in Satan, I actually nailed and buctehed Sami and your vile profit to hell.
In fact, contact me to come to my paltalk room so I can also crucify you with your profit for all to see. But we know you are not man enough to do so.
Here is my email so we can arrange it: samshmn@yahoo.com
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Bitch you got crucified. All the Muslims in the world are laughing at you. I won’t debate you cus I don’t have enough knowledge to debate and I am not ashamed in any way to admit this. But people who have knowledge (like Sami, Shabir, etc) have already bitchslapped you in the past. You always pretend to be a man by telling everyone who that doesn’t agree with your poetic shit to ‘come and debate me’. People have and shown you are nothing but trash. You’re just too stupid and too arrogant to see it. In fact if there was a passage in the bible saying ‘hey scam shamoon, you idiot! You are trash! And everything that comes out of your mouth is trash’ EVEN then you would come up with some BS to mean it say something else like you do 90% of the time to justify all the errors in your comicbook know as the bible. Or like you try and justify the trinity or Jesus allegedly being God. I just laugh so hard listening to your BS on youtube where you come up with the most RIDICULOUS bullcrap and your little band of misfits who all type ‘1’ and say amen. LOL!
Pathetic!
Now get lost. And take your pagan theological trash with you!
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Btw people here on the blog already accepted your ‘challange’ but you just blocked them. LOL!
You claim to have beaten Ijaz in a debate but all that happened was that he just joined the chatroom and just listened to your poetic garbage and you banned him out of the room and then say you won. BUAAHHAHAHAHAHAA!!! What a LOSER!!!
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What’s the matter blob? You’re in a corner crying and eating pizza’s? Did I hurt your feelings?
Ooooh! Poor arrogant kid. Ask the Holy Spirit to calm you down. While he is at it tell him to explain the following:
If the Father has the power to be the Father (sounds silly but I am just trying to make a point) which He does by definition. It’s trivial just like you scam shamoon has the ‘power’ to be scam shamoon.
Now answer ask the HS to answer this: does the Son have the power to be the Father?
If the answer is yes then that means that there are 2 Fathers and hence the trinity is violated.
If the answer is no then that means that the Father can do something which the Son can’t. Hence the Son is not All powerful.
Tell us what you think (pretty please).
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“Believer in Satan, I actually nailed and buctehed Sami and your vile profit to hell.”
sam, did satan butcher jesus?
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Brother even though the bible is a blasphemous book, we still don’t have the right to portray a prophet of God like that (or even portray him at all). Let them do it as much as they wont with their pagan Roman/Greek god. We are not allowed to do it.
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belieber
Your question doesn’t even make sense, and you conclusion is illogical. If the son does have “the power to be the father” (LOL what does that even mean!!!!) then it does not follow that there are two fathers. Complete logical fail.
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My question makes perfect sense. You just can’t answer it. If the Son can be the Father then there are two Fathers (whether that means the Son stopped existing or not when becoming the father, if he stops existing then we could ask two Fathers of who). You can ask the same question about the HS too. Does the HS have to power to be the Father? What’s so difficult to understand. Your trinity says they are distinctive persons. I’m asking does one have the power to be exactly the same as the other. In other words does one have the power to be another person in the trinune godhead.
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It’s your trininty that doesn’t make any sense. That’s why so many xtians are who don’t even know what it is and every time they try and explain it they fall into herisies.
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belieber
No, your question is stupid and unanswerable for that reason alone. And you still can’t get the hang of this “logic” thing can you!
Again, it is completely dumb to conclude that if the son “has the power to be the father” (LOL, again, what on earth does that mean), then there are two fathers.
I won’t explain the details of your silliness…..I’m enjoying watching you make a fool of yourself.
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belieber
A plural god is the only logical concept of god there is. If god is one, the he is just like his creation, therefore, god CANNOT POSSIBLY be unitarian.
Secondly, the god of islam is easily explained because he is anthropomorphized – his whims, rages, petty demands for control over the minutiae of human life, his warlike and aggressive nature, all speak of a god that is like a 7th century nomad but amplified to demonic proportions.
The trinitarian god loves his creation beyond human understanding – that’s why it is difficult for humans to apprehend him. That’s not his failing, it’s ours.
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No, your question is stupid and unanswerable for that reason alone. And you still can’t get the hang of this “logic” thing can you!
Again, it is completely dumb to conclude that if the son “has the power to be the father” (LOL, again, what on earth does that mean), then there are two fathers.
I won’t explain the details of your silliness…..I’m enjoying watching you make a fool of yourself.
Sorry to hurt your feelings again kid. You couldn’t respond on the other thread and now here you are again. A crosstian trying to teach someone about logic. You just couldn’t make this up.
You’re wrong the question is spot on. It’s your pagan trinity that is stupid and illogical.
“the son “has the power to be the father ( what on earth does that mean)”
It means the exact opposite what your pagan trinity ‘means’ kid. Your pagan doctrine says that they are distinct. I’m saying does one have the power to become the other? Capish kiddo?
If A, B and C are distinct, does C have the power to all of a sudden become A or B? Too difficult for your trinitarian worshiping brain that can’t count to three.
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“Let them do it as much as they wont with their pagan Roman/Greek god. ”
if the missionaries say that a god becomes flesh and gets defeated by creatures then it opens the door to other problems like saten taking on the flesh of thor and nailing jesus.
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Your last comment is the motherload of stupidity. Wth did I just read?
It’s your god that is warlike you moron. Ordering his follewers to kill men women and children. Sending two bears to shred 42 boys to pieces just for saying ‘boldie boldie’ to Elija. Trinity is moronic and doesn’t exist.
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Brother please just read this idiot’s (joel) last comment and be blown away by the brainwashing that the church has done.
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belieber
Hey, you know the first three letters of the alphabet!
“If A, B and C are distinct, does C have the power to all of a sudden become A or B? Too difficult for your trinitarian worshiping brain that can’t count to three.”
Oh. Dear.
If A, B, and C are distinct, does C have the power to become A or B?!!! LOL!
What on earth are you talking about? You are still not making any sense. Again, your question is unanswerable because it is dumb. Try again, but this time, try to make sense.
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belieber
And you still haven’t come anywhere near to proving that if the “son has the power to be the father” (LOL!!), then that makes two fathers.
Go on, show us your logical super mind at work – how do yo figure this line of “reasoning”?
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belieber
Where in the bible am I ordered to kill women and children?
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”
Secondly, the god of islam is easily explained because he is anthropomorphized – his whims, rages, petty demands for control over the minutiae of human life, his warlike and aggressive nature, all speak of a god that is like a 7th century nomad but amplified to demonic proportions.”
since your 3 one’s were loving each other in romantic way , who was one of them jealous of ?
god IS LOVE
god IS jealous
14 (for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God).
quote :
The trinitarian god loves his creation beyond human understanding – that’s why it is difficult for humans to apprehend him. That’s not his failing, it’s ours.
end quote
is god hater ?
for example does god hate the action of stabbing, punching and kicking?
does god take out wrath on jesus in loving way when he transfers all the stabbing, kicking , raping and punching on jesus christ?
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Hahahahaa kiiiidd. O boy!!!
Either you are one of the most stupid people I have ever come across (literally) or you’re just pretending to be stupid (which is what I am starting to suspect cus even you can’t be this idiotic).
“Hey, you know the first three letters of the alphabet!”
I typed many comments in response to your stupidity where I use those letters all the time. You tried to be clever but got bitchslapped again. Poor crosstian.
You can somehow understand the Son becoming a man but pretend to not understand when I ask the same question but this time about the Son becoming the Father or HS. You’re just trolling at this point.
The xtians say: the Father is all powerful, the Son is all powerful, the HS is all powerful.
I’m just putting that to the test by asking whether ANYONE of them has the power to become the other LikeI said the Son has the power to become man (according to your belief). Ask the same question but only this time replace man in the equation by the Father or the HS.
Joel the buffoon: O crap I can’t answer that. Fast right a response saying once again that the question doesn’t make sense even though it’s exactly the same thing we say about the Son becoming man. ANd while I’m at it, I’ll say the most absurd stuff like unitarianism doesn’t make sense but the trinity does. And also need to throw in some ‘lol’s’ in their as well to make it seem all convincing and hope people are just like most xtians who don’t have more than two brain cells on active duty.
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Your God ordered Joshua. How loving of him. Slaughtering every man, woman, child and livestock. Hallelujah!!!!
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Ladies and gentlemen!!!! Joel has shown us the TRUTH:
If god is one, then he is just like his creation.
Please do explain what this means.
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belieber
Classic. A muslim wannabe apologist trying to show off his “logical” prowess gets owned, and starts throwing out accusations of “troll”.
You said, that if “the son has the power to become the father”, then that makes two fathers. All I’m asking is that you show me how that is a logical conclusion. You can’t, but that doesn’t make me a troll.
Again, your question makes no sense – what does the incarnation have to do with your silly question?
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belieber
“Your God ordered Joshua. How loving of him. Slaughtering every man, woman, child and livestock. Hallelujah!!!!”
Where am I commanded to kill women and children? I’d love to know!
“If god is one, then he is just like his creation.”
Sure. All the creatures i creation are unitarian. If god is unlike his creation, then it follows that he cannot be unitarian. Simple.
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Joel
It seems you are dancing around Believers Question because you simply can’t or won’t answer it directly. Use your head and try to address the question.
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You said, that if “the son has the power to become the father”, then that makes two fathers. All I’m asking is that you show me how that is a logical conclusion. You can’t, but that doesn’t make me a troll.
/////
. you believe that the son has ACCESS to everything the father has. i say “access” because when he was an empty god, he was an EMPTY god.
if the son can become an EMPTY god ,can he from empty god become the fathers person?
empty god to fathers person
and will that then make 2 fathers in trinity/twins?
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@ Joel
27And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’” Luke 19:27
Jesus commands you to murder disbelievers.
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ibn
Belieber’s question seriously makes no sense. I’m not avoiding answering it, it is just too dumb to have a meaningful answer. Belieber is regurgitating some imam’s attempt at logic – sadly for him, he should have been more skeptical of his cleric’s abilities.
Maybe you can explain beliebers point for him – he seems incapable of thinking for himself. If the son has the power to become a man, then that somehow is the same as saying that the son has power to be the father? I don’t see the logic in this progression. Neither can belieber, that’s why he has resorted to insult. Again – LOL – I still don’t see the logic here, nor do I see merit in the conclusion that there would be two fathers.
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heathcliff
Even your barely coherent rant contains more traces of rational reasoning than belieber’s – the son has access to everything the father has.
You’re getting there.
ibn
“@ Joel
27And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’” Luke 19:27
Jesus commands you to murder disbelievers.”
Don’t be bloody stupid. We both know jesus was speaking in parables not giving commands. You guys are really desperate.
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“If the son has the power to become a man, then that somehow is the same as saying that the son has power to be the father? ”
its called a hypothetical . your entire religion is hypothetical. like a god who is beginingless existing as one having a BEGINNING.
x has everything y has
x becomes z
but x cannot become y ?
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heathcliff
Your entire religion is hypothetical.
If x has everything y has, then why would x need to become y?
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QUOTE :
heathcliff
Even your barely coherent rant contains more traces of rational reasoning than belieber’s – the son has access to everything the father has.
You’re getting there
END QUOTE
father says to the son “i love you my love”
son is talking from the same mouth ” i love you my love” (same access)
how are they relating their love making when they are loving from the same mouth?
are these twins/brothers/ lovers?
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“If x has everything y has, then why would x need to become y?”
oh, so the father is the son then?
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Joel,
If the question is so dumb then why don’t you just answer it?
If Jesus is truly an all-powerful God, then theoretically speaking, he should be able to use his divine powers of “incarnation” to become the personification or embodiment of the Father. If Jesus cannot theoretically do such a thing, then he is not an all-powerful God. If in theory, Jesus can do such a thing, then as Believer said, there are 2 fathers and no son, and the Trinity is violated.
I think the question makes sense…and now it is up to you to answer…….Is your Mythological Greco-Roman Man God as all powerful as Christians claim or not?
we are still awaiting an answer!
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when he is an empty god, he no longer has EVERYTHING the father has, so he can’t be the father. if that is the case can he go from being empty to being the PERSON of the father
and to clarify
the PERSONS of each person are not the same. so the “make up” of each person is distinct.
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So if there is something that is similar we have with God than that doesn’t make him God? Great logic kid.
We are unitarian so God can’t be unitarian! The most stupid thing I have ever heard. Ok lets apply the same ‘logic’ about other things as well:
We are loving (alot of us at least) so God can’t be loving. We have a mind so God can’t have a mind. We have a will so God can’t have a will. We have the freedom to choose so God doesn’t have freedom to choose. Etc etc etc.
Great logic buffoon.
You said about Allah: his warlike and aggressive nature. And “The trinitarian god loves his creation beyond human understanding”
I’m turning that upside down and ask you if ordering the Israelites to kill men, women, children and livestock is loving. I ask you if sending to bears to shred 42 boys to pieces just for calling Elija ‘boldie’ is loving. You turn it into a straw man and ask ‘where does God command ME to kill women and children’? We were talking about God remember?
Btw you are told to burn witches which xtians before the reformation did (those who actually treated the OT as scripture instead of a history book unlike crosstians today who treat it as a history book when it’s convenient and scripture when it’s convenient whenever there is an alleged prophecy that is supposedly fulfilled). And many other passages. Those before the reformation didn’t think those passages abrogated the OT verses unlike what you people claim today. All because the secularists kicked your asses and rightly so.
Allah doesn’t tell us to kill people unless it be in self defense. Unlike Yahweh in the bible ordering genocides of people that have done something 300 years ago. But yea lets all focus on the few years in the NT that Jesus was around and ignore the thousands of years of Hebrew text.
[You said, that if “the son has the power to become the father”, then that makes two fathers. All I’m asking is that you show me how that is a logical conclusion. You can’t, but that doesn’t make me a troll.]
If the Son becomes the first person in the trinune godhead (or the third person) then there will be TWO of them. If the Son chooses to become the HS for example then you’ll have two HS.
Say God chooses to become like you. EXACTLY like you. Can He do that? According to Xtianity He can. Then you’ll have TWO Joels that are completely the SAME: you and the Joel that God became.
Either way if the Son chooses to be the Father then that would make Him his own Father as well. Even if you say: if the Son becomes the Father then there still is one Father. He still would be his own father which is modelism and hence contradicts the trinity (as if it didn’t contradict itself enough already).
[What does the incarnation have to do with your silly question?]
Because it’s you xtians who say that God chose to become man! If he can become man can he become any of the other persons in the godhead? SIMPLE question.
Does the Son have the power to be the Father or the HS?
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heathcliff
“oh, so the father is the son then?”
There goes the last trace of rational reasoning from your comments. No, the father is not the son.
Ibn
Incarnation in christianity means the word becoming flesh. What do you mean by “powers of incarnation”? The son and the father are not separate beings – they are not separate gods.
I’m not surprised beliebers question makes sense to you – you are not making sense either. Do you guys have the same imam?
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” If the son has the power to become a man, then that somehow is the same as saying that the son has power to be the father?”
I ASKED if he can become the Father you idiot. It’s a QUESTION. Not my fault you’re to stupid to understand it. The church has done a great job of making an idiot.
Btw I didn’t get it from any Imam. I am just asking this from myself.
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belieber
Your god isn’t loving – to call him so violates tawheed. Humans are loving like the the islamic god is loving – selective in who we love, and only loving in the sense that we have given or shown love at some point throughout our lives.
The true god is eternally loving – unlike his creatures and your god. Your analogy fails. By contrast, god’s oneness cannot be an attribute of degree – how is your god’s supposed oneness different to the oneness of his creatures? The only way this is possible is if god’s oneness has plurality within it. Otherwise, your god is exactly like his creatures in his oneness.
Also, please show me where I have been commanded to kill omen and children?
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“There goes the last trace of rational reasoning from your comments. No, the father is not the son.”
“the son has access to everything the father has.”
if you had access to every feeling, thought etc your wife had , wouldn’t you identify yourself as a woman?
so when you say “no, the father is not the son” then the son DOES not have EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of what it is to be the father, right?
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belieber
Yet, your question remains unbeliebably dumb. You ever going to show me how the son becoming the father produces two fathers?
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belieber
“Btw I didn’t get it from any Imam. I am just asking this from myself.”
So you are intrinsically dumb?
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heathcliff
“if you had access to every feeling, thought etc your wife had , wouldn’t you identify yourself as a woman?”
OUCH!!
MAJOR BLASPHEMY.
Your god has access to every thought and feeling of his creatures – even dogs – does that make allah a dog sometimes?
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” The son and the father are not separate beings – they are not separate gods.”
then how much being does the son use to do action verbs on the other person? they are separate beings.
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i’ll ask again
DOES THE son have EXPERIENTIAL KNOWLEDGE/FEELING of how it is TO BE the FATHER in trinity?
does the father have EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of how to be the ghost?
does the father have experiential knowledge of how it feels to get a sword driven into him (even though he is the one driving the roman hands in mysterious way) ?
you said that the son has ACCESS to everything the father has even WHILE he is an empty god.
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“Your god has access to every thought and feeling of his creatures – even dogs – does that make allah a dog sometimes?”
well God created the thought so God would know everything a dog thinks.
as for feeling that is jesus in trinity.
jesus in trinity has full EXPERIENTIAL feeling of gay/straight thoughts/temptations. does he share these thoughts with the father?
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I answered your comment but you chose to ignore it. Unbelievable.
Us being Unitarian means God can’t be Unitarian???? Whaaaat!!
Your god isn’t always loving for it says that he abhors the wicked and hates the sinful.
Allah loves justice he doesn’t love sinful people. He loves for them to return to righteousness
Your god loves evildoers. Does he love Satan too?
I’ll repost what I said before. But I’m sure you’ll just ignore it again:
You said about Allah: his warlike and aggressive nature. And “The trinitarian god loves his creation beyond human understanding”
I’m turning that upside down and ask you if ordering the Israelites to kill men, women, children and livestock is loving. I ask you if sending to bears to shred 42 boys to pieces just for calling Elija ‘boldie’ is loving. You turn it into a straw man and ask ‘where does God command ME to kill women and children’? We were talking about God remember? We were asking whether God is all loving. Why the hell do you make it about you all of a sudden?
[how is your god’s supposed oneness different to the oneness of his creatures]
Says who? I’m asking for you to be consistent and apply the same ‘logic’ to other things besides the oneness argument.
We have a mind so God can’t have a mind? We have a will so God can’t have a will? We have the freedom to choose so God doesn’t have freedom to choose? Etc etc etc.
Same logic. You’ll only willing to apply some aspect to make your illogical trinity work but won’t dare to apply other concepts (like a mind, or will, or freedom).
You ask ONCE again even though I have given you an answer but you haven’t responded to it:
[You said, that if “the son has the power to become the father”, then that makes two fathers. All I’m asking is that you show me how that is a logical conclusion.]
If the Son becomes the first person in the trinune godhead (or the third person) then there will be TWO of them. If the Son chooses to become the HS for example then you’ll have two HS.
Say God chooses to become like you. EXACTLY like you. Can He do that? According to Xtianity He can. Then you’ll have TWO Joels that are completely the SAME: you and the Joel that God became.
Either way if the Son chooses to be the Father then that would make Him his own Father as well. Even if you say: if the Son becomes the Father then there still is one Father. He still would be his own father which is modelism and hence contradicts the trinity (as if it didn’t contradict itself enough already).
[So you are intrinsically dumb?]
O kid. If you only knew how moronic you sound. Jimmy white’s poetic shakespearian garbage has made a mess in your head.
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“Your god isn’t loving – to call him so violates tawheed. Humans are loving like the the islamic god is loving – selective in who we love, and only loving in the sense that we have given or shown love at some point throughout our lives”
your god must be loving all the rapists doing rape this minute. since the father poured on jesus with all past, present and future rapes, then it is not surprising that love has over powered your god.
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I don;t know why you mentioned your mother here by name when I wasn’t talking about her but about you, Now instead of making reasons to avoid defending your vile wicked immoral profit come to my room so we can see if I blocked any of you clowns. In the meantime enjoy what David Wood is doing to your profit who is already burning in hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dwryULhYnU&feature=em-uploademail
With that said make sure you email me so you prove you are man enough to defend your profit by doing to me what you think Sami and Shabir did to me as they allowed me to crucify and bury your profit further down the abyss by God;s grace
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heathclif
You ignored my question – is your god a dog because he knows all the thoughts and feelings and experiences and powers of dogs?
belieber
God cannot be one like his creation otherwise that would make him like his creatures. So how is allah one in a different way from man?
You are running away from sound logical reasoning – no one denies that god is one, the question is simply that god’s oneness isn’t like ours. I’ve explained how god’s other traits and attributes would be different from ours even though we share the same ones, but you cannot explain how your god’s oneness can possibly be different.
Like I said, your allah is just a man made construct with all of the basest human qualities amplified to infinity.
As for god “hating” things – you again fail the test of logical reasoning. Hate is not the opposite of love. The opposite of love is to not love – your imam needs retraining.
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“You ignored my question – is your god a dog because he knows all the thoughts and feelings and experiences and powers of dogs?”
“all the feelings…” you pulled that from your ass? when did i say that?
think about this.
if you had EXPERIENTIAL FEELINGS of your wife and her thoughts, you would be fully man and fully woman at the same time. you would literally be your own wife lol
so i will ask again, does the son in trinity have EXPERIENTIAL feelings of what it is to be the father like he has experiential feelings of being tempted and taking a crap ?
imagine you have full experiential feelings of your wife , then you would “feel like a woman”
like yhwh “felt like a finite man” even though he is beginingless
yhwh seems to be a man even before incarnation because he smells like human beings. the odor of burning meat is a pleasing aroma.
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“As for god “hating” things – you again fail the test of logical reasoning. Hate is not the opposite of love. The opposite of love is to not love – your imam needs retraining.”
Now it’s clear. You’re just a retard. You haven’t answered ANY of my points. What loser.
And then you end by saying that the opposite of love is not hate but ‘not love’. Go check your brain. You might not have one. Wtf did i just read. Holyyyy crap!
Dear Lord the wave of stupidity WOOOOOOW!!!!
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“As for god “hating” things – you again fail the test of logical reasoning. Hate is not the opposite of love. The opposite of love is to not love – your imam needs retraining.”
the retard is using his “logic” to understand greek and hebrew texts when scholars have said that biblical texts understands love and hate as OPPOSITES.
would you like proof ?
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Hello worshipper of a half-naked criminal, still kissing up to your Satanic apostle from Tarsus? Nabeel has already found out the truth and it won’t be long before it is your turn.
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belieber
“We have a mind so God can’t have a mind? We have a will so God can’t have a will? We have the freedom to choose so God doesn’t have freedom to choose? Etc etc etc. Same logic.”
Same logic??!! LOL!! Now you have been exposed. God’s will, mind, freedom to choose are all subject to his omniscience – we are not omniscient so our wills, minds and freedom to choose are radically different to god’s. Clearly, to apply my reasoning about god’s oneness to these attributes is fallacious and you have once again shown your inability to reason logically. Now all you have to do is show me how allah’s oneness is different to the oneness of his creatures?
“If the Son becomes the first person in the trinune godhead (or the third person) then there will be TWO of them. If the Son chooses to become the HS for example then you’ll have two HS.
Say God chooses to become like you. EXACTLY like you. Can He do that? According to Xtianity He can. Then you’ll have TWO Joels that are completely the SAME: you and the Joel that God became.”
So, so dumb. There is no point here that can be logically answered. Why would the son want to become the HS? Or the father? What are you even talking about.
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Menj
The blessing of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ be upon you.
Repent.
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Heathcliff
“if you had EXPERIENTIAL FEELINGS of your wife and her thoughts, you would be fully man and fully woman at the same time. you would literally be your own wife lol”
So allah becomes a pig because he knows and experiences the lives of all his creatures, including pigs?
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Jesus is indeed my lord but he is not God. So there is no need to be patronising by trying to shoveyour wishy-washy evangelical crap down my throat.
We Muslims already know that Jesus, peace and blessings of God be upon him, is our maulana, but he is not the Rabb, will never be the Rabb and never claimed to be the Rabb.
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Heathcliff
“if you had EXPERIENTIAL FEELINGS of your wife and her thoughts, you would be fully man and fully woman at the same time. you would literally be your own wife lol”
So allah becomes a pig because he knows and experiences the lives of all his creatures, including pigs?
///
do you have shit in your brains?
it is jesus, your phony god who has EXPERIENTIAL feelings of what it is to be a human being.
i quote :
So, lets start at a 100% human Jesus and for every 100% human bodily function he did not have like us mortals, lets deduct some percentage points. I’ll be generous, and only remove 3.8% for each body function you feel he did not have like us normal humans.
Here’s my list so please cross out any bodily function Jesus did not have as a 100% human man: (I know you don’t know the real Jesus, but let say he was mostly like the majority of us humans)
A. Wet Dreams; B. Colds and Flues every winter ; C. Sexual thoughts (either gay or straight);
D. Picking his nose; E. Bad breath; F. Bad teeth / a rotten tooth; G. Nightmares; H.
I. Indigestion; J. Needed vision correction; K. Gas; L. Over weight or under weight; M. Balding;
N. Constipation; O. Balding / hair loss; P. Diarrhea / food poisoning; Q. Nervousness; R. Depression;
S. Stinking rectum / hemorrhoids; T. High blood pressure; U. Acne as a teenager; V. Bucked teeth;
W. High / Low blood sugar; X. Alleges; Y. Warts; Z. Cold sores.
These are just 26 right off the top of my head. So even if you reject 13 (50%) of the ones you think keeps Jesus from being “God in the flesh”, you still have to reconstruct a fully 100% human Jesus who is now only 50% human.
/////////////
since jesus can take on EXPERIENTIAL feelings of being a human, can his person also BECOME the father and be his own son?
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you didn’t answer this question. where is the justice in your god loving satan ?
since your god is seeing rapes this minute where is the JUSTICE in god loving rapists ?
your god the father took all actions of rape and forcefully deflowered jesus by pouring them on him?
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“So allah becomes a pig because he knows and experiences the lives of all his creatures, including pigs?”
since jesus is in the father does that mean the father was pregnant ?
since jesus had thoughts of sex, did he pass them on to the “holy ” father?
since yhwh has experiential feelings, does that mean he is fully human without even becoming human?
since jesus is currently residing in the trinity does that mean the thoughts of temptations and experiences of them have become permanently part of the trinity?
does it also mean that when your gods make love , these thoughts could possibly help their loving relationships ?
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“Menj
The blessing of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ be upon you.
Repent.”
satan blessed your god with the following :
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Why would the Son want to become the Father?
You’re an idiot joel. Where did I say he wants to become the Son? God’s will was to create the universe and He did. So He has the will to do it and the power/ability. He has the power/ability to make the earth vanish withing 2 seconds if He wills. Since we are all here He clearly didn’t want it even though He has the power to do it. So power/ability and will are different things. You jumped to a red herring (yet again) by talking about the will. My point was His power/ability. I asked whether he CAN not whether he WANTS. But to do continue to twist my words and raise red herrings again and again while you never answer the questions!
The only exposure here is your stupidity. You make up things like we are Unitarian so God can’t be. BS! That’s a statement, NOT an argument. You go to the most moronic end to justify a pagan belief. A belief that is laughed at by every non-trinatarian.
I asked you to apply your dumb ‘logic’ (that you pulled out of your ***) to other aspects and you failed. Then you try and come up with other BS to pretend as if asking you to apply the same standards to other aspects of God is irrelevant. You create a red herring by talking about how God uses those attributes which are different from ours. That was clearly NOT the point of my argument but yet you turned it into that. The point is that we have a will, mind, freedom, etc. My point was not HOW they are applied but that we HAVE those attributes.
We exist so God can’t exist?
You turn something so simple into pagan garbage which is the mother load of logical fallacies.
A, B en C all equal X but yet A, B and C are not equal to one another. The most simple basic logic gets shit on by 2 billion idiots brainwashed this pagan belief.
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belieber
“The only exposure here is your stupidity. You make up things like we are Unitarian so God can’t be. BS! That’s a statement, NOT an argument. “
Dang! It is an argument – god is unlike his created creatures, creatures are unitarian, god cannot be unitarian, ergo. Simple.
Also, please explain how allah’s oneness is different to the oneness of his creatures…….
Why the son wants to become the father is more pertinent than your stupid question of whether he can….the fact that you don’t understand why is evidence that you are ignorant and are just regurgitating some crap you heard your imam said at friday prayers without understanding it. LOL! CLUE….it’s why your point is stupid and cannot be answered because the stupid is so acute.
“I asked you to apply your dumb ‘logic’ (that you pulled out of your ***) to other aspects and you failed. Then you try and come up with other BS to pretend as if asking you to apply the same standards to other aspects of God is irrelevant. You create a red herring by talking about how God uses those attributes which are different from ours. That was clearly NOT the point of my argument but yet you turned it into that. The point is that we have a will, mind, freedom, etc. My point was not HOW they are applied but that we HAVE those attributes.
We exist so God can’t exist?”
Really? We have attributes that are informed by omniscience? Our minds are the same as allah’s? You fool, your attempts to look clever are failing miserably. And my argument is not about HOW god uses his attributes, it’s about the fact that the attributes that he has are vastly different to our versions of those same attributes.
So again, how is allah’s oneness different from ours?
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can you tell me what do you mean by “one person ” in trinity
or 3 one’s
is “one person” more than one?
is the father one or two?
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How is Allah’s oneness diff from ours? Aaaaam He is one person Who is omnipotent, uncreated, All-powerful, etc. Is a person that is untreated and omnipotent the same as a created one with limited capabilities.
Hahahaha. Gooood job joely the idiot. Don’t answer the question. Talk about his will when I didn’t even mention it. I was just talking about his Power. But you can’t answer it so you just play the ‘you are dumb’ card and don’t answer as per usual. Just switch the subject to some Imam or whatever the hell you can pull out of your ***. Crosstian loser.
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untreated —–> uncreated*
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belieber
“How is Allah’s oneness diff from ours? Aaaaam He is one person Who is omnipotent, uncreated, All-powerful, etc. Is a person that is untreated and omnipotent the same as a created one with limited capabilities.”
LOL! In other words you have no idea how allah’s oneness is different from ours. None of your points come close to addressing how allah’s oneness is different from the oneness of his creatures. Omnipotence and being uncreated have no bearing on allah’s oneness – all you’ve done is change the subject, and point out obvious differences between a divinity and human beings.
You need to fire your imam he’s making you look really dumb. Please try harder – how is allah’s oneness different from his creatures?
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You know what you are absolutely right. Hallelujah! I’m gonna go shove a cross up my *** now.
Finally I’m a crosstian!
It’s so obvious now. I mean of course!!!!!
A, B and C = X and yet A, B and C are not equal to one and other. Praise my pagan god!!!
Allah’s oneness is completely the same as the creatures. Cus you know He is one and we are one.
Which is you know LITERALLY what the word ‘oneness’ means: ONE. A omnipotent person to a limited/finite person is NO diffirence between the two and hence does not answer the question ‘what’s the diff between Allah’s oneness and His creatures’ oneness’. And yet it does at the same time (but it doesn’t while it actually does). Thank my pagan god that I can redefine words and commit logical fallacies and be braindead.
Praise be to god the Father, the Son, the HS who are all different and yet the same at the same time (but they’re not, but actually they are as well while they are not). Hallelujah I can BS my way to paradise! Throw out red herrings like my pagan brothaaa joel who didn’t answer a single question (like whether the Son is ABLE to become the Father/HS). Thank my pagan lord for showing me the trinity which only took the church 3.5 centuries to make it official which clearly shows even most people for the first few hundred years believed in something different and hence had a brain.
The pagan truth has set me free.
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Dear ugly fatty sam.
I already told you that I am not equipped to debate as I don’t posses the knowledge to debate. And I said that I in no way am ashamed to admit this (do 99.99 % of the crosstians in the world debate or are they equipped to debate? No!). So your little threat doesn’t harm me or my integrity in the least. Shabir shit all over you. Sami shit all over you. All you could do was be a Shakespearean moronic tard. Like some one said in one of your YT comment section: in the son by the son for the son through the son above the son and so on. Your pagan belief is pathetic.
A, B and C = X and yet they are not equal to one and other. If someone is stupid enough to believe this crap then you’ll come up with ANYTHING to justify ANYTHING your wicked perverted heart desires. My Prophet (saw) is the last of the Prophets. You and your perverted crossdressing crosstian friend daddy dave will burn in hellfire if you continue your arrogant journey like this. You have the audacity to say that Muslims say this and that about Crosstianity while you and your perverted friend make a living off of bashing Islam. You just insulted the Prophet (for the millionth time) and yet you bitch about some Muslims saying bad stuff about Nabeel Q??? A person which we both agree was not a prophet.
Go to hell you fat fuck. Your crossdressing pervy friend only humiliated himself. A pervert that used his friend to bash out at Islam before he is even in the ground! What a sick fuck!
You own biblical scholars are tearing you comicbook know as the bible to pieces. The bible (especially) the NT is one of the biggest jokes ever made. Unknown john doe after unknown john doe writing shit about Jesus which most BIBLICAL scholars agree is not historically reliable.
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belieber
“Which is you know LITERALLY what the word ‘oneness’ means: ONE. A omnipotent person to a limited/finite person is NO diffirence between the two and hence does not answer the question ‘what’s the diff between Allah’s oneness and His creatures’ oneness’.”
LOL!! Exactly – allah’s oneness is exactly like the oneness of his creatures. You’ve made my point. It follows that whatever you worship cannot be the creator of the universe since he has an attribute that is EXACTLY like the attributes of his creatures.
The true god simply CANNOT possess any attributes that make him equal to his creatures. A trinitarian god can become incarnate, however, since even though he assumes and takes on attributes of humanity, the sum total of his being outside of creation remains vastly different from his creatures.
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Did not expect it would happen so fast.
Perhaps he confessed Tawheed in his last moments and Muhammad to be a Messenger from Allah the Almighty. I hope so. Allah knows best.
May his family find peace and comfort. Ameen.
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A review of Nabeel’s life and work, from an Islamic perspective, will be posted on this blog in due course.
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Shalom. Has his work been refuted brother Saul? Nabeel’ social media account has many people claiming that his work was a result of comparative analysis of Islam and Christianity and that the evidence of the death and resurrection etc of Jesus overwhelmed his emotional faith in Islam. A claim also made by Nabeel and David wood. I myself am analysing both faiths and wish to know the truth.
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إنَّا لله و إنَّا اليهواجعون
May Allah have mercy on his family and grant them ease and comfort at this very difficult time. He was good man who did what he believed and I do not fault him for that even though our theology was adrift.
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ان لله و انا اليه راجعون
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Sad to hear. Yes, we are all from God and we will all return to God.
He died at a young age….looking at a study at
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4019373/
only about 1% of cases occurred between ages of 20 to 34.
“The incidence rate of GC rises progressively with age. Of the cases diagnosed between 2005 and 2009 in the United States, approximately 1% of cases occurred between the ages of 20 and 34 years, whereas 29% occurred between 75 and 84 years (25). During this period, the median age at diagnosis of GC was 70 years (25).”
And the cases in general are not that common….
Less than 15 per 100,000 in the UK (less than 1 per 7,500 people).
So 1% of (1 per 7,500) means 1 per 750,000 people of his age would get gastric cancer.
I hope that he accepted the One-ness of God before he died.
I saw a couple of the videos that Nabeel sent from his hospital bed.
It brings some hope that he was referring to God only as God and that he spoke of christians in the 3rd person as if making himself speaking outside of a specific religion…
he was saying that we should speak from lens of love whether speaking to “Hindus, Jews, Muslims, or Christians.”
I think he would refer to Jesus as his Lord, etc. in previous videos. So it is nice that he decided not to do that in the most important videos of his life.
I will not judge him. In the final analysis, only God can judge.
May God give solace to his family.
And may we be reminded of the mortality of us all so we can become better and more sincere and good.
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My eyes are watering up.
“Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His godly ones” Psalm 116:15
While he was suffering, he modeled a godly and proper attitude – like Jesus – he prayed for healing and knew that God is able to heal; but he always prayed, “Not my will, but Your Will be done” ( like Jesus in Luke 22:42)
So sad because he was so young.
https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/justintaylor/2017/09/16/nabeel-qureshi-1983-2017/
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“So sad because he was so young.”
Repent Ken as long as you have the chance.
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Already have.
Mark 1:15 – repent and believe the gospel
Matthew 11:27-30
Acts 2:38
Acts 26:20
2 Corinthians 5:17
John 5:24
1 John 5:11-14
Romans 5:1-11
Therefore, having been justified by faith,
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
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1 John 5:11-15
11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
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Allah(sw) is calling you to repent from worshipping a human being who used to eat food.
“They have certainly disbelieved who say, ” Allah is the third of three.” And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.
So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
Say, “Do you worship besides Allah that which holds for you no [power of] harm or benefit while it is Allah who is the Hearing, the Knowing?
Say, “O People of the Scripture, do not exceed limits in your religion beyond the truth and do not follow the inclinations of a people who had gone astray before and misled many and have strayed from the soundness of the way.” QT 5:73-77
“Rather, We have brought them the truth, and indeed they are liars.
Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. [If there had been], then each deity would have taken what it created, and some of them would have sought to overcome others. Exalted is Allah above what they describe [concerning Him].
[He is] Knower of the unseen and the witnessed, so high is He above what they associate [with Him].”
QT 23:90-92
“Whoever does righteousness – it is for his [own] soul; and whoever does evil [does so] against it. And your Lord is not ever unjust to [His] servants.
To him [alone] is attributed knowledge of the Hour. And fruits emerge not from their coverings nor does a female conceive or give birth except with His knowledge. And the Day He will call to them, “Where are My ‘partners’?” they will say, “We announce to You that there is [no longer] among us any witness [to that].” QT 41:46-47.
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The True Allah is the Trinity of the Father of the eternal Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God in three persons.
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The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food.
The author or authors/compilers of the Qur’an prove that it is not the true God who inspired the Qur’an, since it does not even know what Christians believed for 500 + years and it thinks Mary is part of the Trinity, this section, Surah, 5:73-77 along with 5:116 (also puts Mary in the Trinity) and 19:88-92 and 6:101 proves that whoever compiled that did not know what he was talking about.
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“The True Allah is the Trinity of the Father of the eternal Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God in three persons.”
“And We have certainly diversified in this Qur’an for the people from every [kind of] example; but man has ever been, most of anything, [prone to] dispute.” QT 18:54
” Say, “O People of the Scripture, do not exceed limits in your religion beyond the truth and do not follow the inclinations of a people who had gone astray before and misled many and have strayed from the soundness of the way.”
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“Woe to every sinful liar
Who hears the verses of Allah recited to him, then persists arrogantly as if he had not heard them. So give him tidings of a painful punishment.
And when he knows anything of Our verses, he takes them in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment.” QT 45:7-9
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Failure to realize you are a sinner and that you cannot save yourself without a perfect mediator who was your substitute (Jesus Al Masih the perfect ransom substitute & mediator, who rose from the dead) – a failure to realize this, repent, and turn to Christ in saving faith results in hell.
. . . hell, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.” Mark 9:47-48
Judgment day for all who are not believers in Christ (whose names are not written in the book of life)
Revelation 20:10-15
Matthew 5:21-30
Any sinful anger or hatred in your heart or lust in your sends you to hell, without Christ Al Masih as your ransom mediator.
Jesus is right now praying for believers at the right hand of the Father. You need His prayers.
1 John 2:1-2 (only for believers)
Romans 8:28-34 (only for believers)
Hebrews 7, 8, 9 (intercession only for believers in Christ)
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Ken Temple
September 18, 2017 • 4:58 pm
The True Allah is the Trinity of the Father of the eternal Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God in three persons
I say;
There is no Trinity in the Bible but there is “God is one”, “God is alone” . “God is one” and “the only true God” referring to the only true God of Jesus who is one alone.is
Proof:
Jesus said
John 17:3
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent
The only true God who is not Jesus, sent Jesus. Jesus cannot be God.
Watch this video.
Give me only one verse that says “God is 3 persons in 1” from the Bible. If you can’t then satan has tempted you into believing a muliti personal God like the Mormons, Rastafarians, polytheist.
Thanks.
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You have to keep reading from John 17:3 to John 17:5 – Jesus clearly is teaching He is eternal and was with the Father in glory in eternity past – He is the eternal Son and Word. John 1:1-5; Philippians 2:5-8
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AT 5:10 in the above video the young white Christian tries to argue that Jesus is described as the “word” of God in the Qur’an and therefore he must be God. Watch how Mansur quickly corrects him and devastates this weak and false argument by reciting the verse 4:171 more fully which states that Jesus was no more than a messenger of Allah and his “word bestowed upon” (Kalimatullah al-qahaa) Mary. He couples that with reference to “Kun fa Yakun” saying that Allah’s word has nothing to do with any humans supposed divinity.
What a great response!!
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Has anyone else ever been called “the Word of God” کلمه الله and “a spirit from Him” ? (points to His essence – ذات و جوهر
روح من الله
The verse has a mixture of truth and mixed with falsehoods. (Surah 4:171)
They probably heard that the Christians called Jesus the Word, since that was already established for 600 years – John 1:1-5; John 1:14; 1 John 1:1-2; Revelation 19:13. Like they just heard words and phrases, but never had the written text in Arabic before them. Hearing things, it got garbled and corrupted.
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Ken, the idea that a god coming to die for you sins to be forgiven has never been the teaching of the true prophets of Allaah(sw) including Jesus. This idea makes creating the world, sending the prophets, and revealing the books for them be so ridicules and with no meaning.
We have to exalt Allaah(sw) from this so pagan idea! No to mention that you violate the oneness of God by worshiping three persons(i.e beings) and the divinity of God by saying He dies! May Allaah(sw) be exalted from these lies. Don’t you see how drak this belief is?
” [It will be said to them], “And you have certainly come to Us alone as We created you the first time, and you have left whatever We bestowed upon you behind you. And We do not see with you your ‘intercessors’ which you claimed that they were among you associates [of Allah ]. It has [all] been severed between you, and lost from you is what you used to claim.” QT 6:93
” And [warn of] the Day when He will say, “Call ‘My partners’ whom you claimed,” and they will invoke them, but they will not respond to them. And We will put between them [a valley of] destruction.” QT 18:52
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Three persons, but only One being / substance/ essence – God is One in substance/ being/ essence, but three in person. God is love.
Jesus Himself taught that He is the eternal Son in eternal fellowship spiritually with His Father.
Matthew 11:27
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
John 17:5
Jesus, while on earth, prayed to the Father:
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
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Jesus Al Masih عیسی المسیح taught this (that He came to be the ransom substitutionary death for forgiveness of sins) truth Himself – Mark 10:45; Matthew 20:28; Mark 14:24; Matthew 26:28; Luke 22:19-20.
and that He was God by nature from all eternity past. Mark 14:60-64; John 1:1; 5:17-18; 8:24; 8:56-58; 10:30; 20:28
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Ken said :”Three persons, but only One being / substance/ essence – God is One in substance/ being/ essence, but three in person. God is love.”
You know this nonsense language has not been used neither By Allah(sw) nor by his prophets
“I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.” Isaiah
” The Father is the only True God” . Jesus.
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quote :
Ken said :”Three persons, but only One being / substance/ essence – God is One in substance/ being/ essence, but three in person. God is love.”
is jesus currently being with the father? if he exists, then he is being with his father. so you worship 3 beings + one being = 4 beings.
internally in trinity who is he BEING with?
so you have internal beings and external being. this is like power rangers. 3 human beings in one power ranger.
you worship one thing and 3 internal one things.
you are simply a polytheist .
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Ken Temple
September 19, 2017 • 1:12 am
You have to keep reading from John 17:3 to John 17:5 – Jesus clearly is teaching He is eternal and was with the Father in glory in eternity past – He is the eternal Son and Word. John 1:1-5; Philippians 2:5-8
I say;
Some one who is a Son/son cannot be eternal. Son/son cannot be eternal. The meaning of Son/son is either;
1. Literal-to have sex and create a Son/son
2. To adopt a Son/son
3. Metaphorical
God Almighty is non of the above and so Jesus as one of the above is not God. Worshiping Jesus as God will land one to hell fire according to the following verses from the Bible.
Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
Jesus is the Son/son of God and cannot be God Himself.
Watch this video.
My dear Reverend. You are a good Reverend and a friend. Son of God does not mean God Himself. As simple as that. God gave glory to Jesus. So, Jesus received glory from God. He is not God. God does not receive glory from anyone.
Thanks.
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The “Son” means the one who has the same nature / essence of the Father – spiritually. The Word was with God from the beginning, from eternity past – John 1:1 – the Son was always eternally generated from the Father.
No sex. استغفرالله – Estaqfr’allah !
No adoption.
But these are metaphorical uses of language as “Father” and “Son”.
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Luke 1:34-35 – “for this reason the holy offspring will be called the Son of God” = because the child was the same nature/substance/essence with the Father. No sex, because Mary is a virgin.
all three persons are there – the power of the most High = the Father
the Holy Spirit
The Son
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My dear Reverend. You are a good Reverend and a friend.
I appreciate your friendliness here and nice comments. Thanks. I wish we could have coffee or tea or shish kebab together or whatever you favorite dish from your own culture is; and discuss the issues and look at texts in the Bible. What is your favorite food from your culture?
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Ken Temple
September 19, 2017 • 1:12 am
You have to keep reading from John 17:3 to John 17:5 – Jesus clearly is teaching He is eternal and was with the Father in glory in eternity past – He is the eternal Son and Word. John 1:1-5; Philippians 2:5-8
I say;
Some one who is a Son/son cannot be eternal. Son/son cannot be eternal. The meaning of Son/son is either;
1. Literal-to have sex and create a Son/son
2. To adopt a Son/son
3. Metaphorical
to be continued………
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quote :
The “Son” means the one who has the same nature / essence of the Father – spiritually.
do twin brothers have the same nature as each other? if yes, then why isn’t jesus the brother of the father spiritually ?
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because there is only ONE God; but there are many humans. so you are making a false analogy. Christians understand this for 2000 years. This doctrine is 500-600 years older than Islam.
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“Luke 1:34-35 – “for this reason the holy offspring will be called the Son of God” = because the child was the same nature/substance/essence with the Father”
ken, does the son exist with the father?
exist means “to be”
exist
ɪɡˈzɪst,ɛɡˈzɪst/Submit
verb
1.
have objective reality or being.
does the son exist as one being and does not exist with the father ?
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Ken Temple
September 19, 2017 • 12:42 pm
The “Son” means the one who has the same nature / essence of the Father – spiritually. The Word was with God from the beginning, from eternity past – John 1:1 – the Son was always eternally generated from the Father.
No sex. استغفرالله – Estaqfr’allah !
No adoption.
But these are metaphorical uses of language as “Father” and “Son”
I say;
The Son does not mean the one who has the same nature/essence of the Father. Does the Son has the nature of the Father which is to “generate the Son”. You believe the Father generates Son. The Son is not the Father according to your theology. So the Son cannot generate the Son and it means the Son does not have the nature of the Father which is “to generate the Son”. I know all these are not in the Bible but I am just accepting them for argument sake.
The Son does not have the nature of the Father. You have changed the meaning of the “Son”. You cannot cheat here. Son means Son. It does not mean to have the same essence/nature of the Father. The Son has 2 natures and the Father has 1 nature, so the Son does not have the same nature and essence of God.
I will find time to visit you, Reverend to have good food. We are not enemies at all, except some White evangelical Christians who voted for Donald Trump openly confess they are enemies to Muslims. Equal rights and justice is the key to reduce the tensions of this world. The White evangelical Christians immigrated to the USA and killed the natives there and are now supporting the brutal Zionists who are in Europe, USA, Russia etc. to immigrate to Palestine and kill the people there. That is against the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Blacks who are born in the USA are still fighting for equal rights and justice. So, equal rights and justice does not necessarily means immigrants wants to take the USA as you falsely opined.
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
September 19, 2017 • 1:18 pm
because there is only ONE God; but there are many humans. so you are making a false analogy. Christians understand this for 2000 years. This doctrine is 500-600 years older than Islam
I say;
“There is only ONE God, but there are many humans”-by Ken Temple of bloggingtheology.
How so? Because humans can be counted as persons i.e. intellect=1 being, Ken= 2 beings, Paul Williams=3 beings. Three persons 3 beings. Every person is a being by himself, whether God or human. Any person that is not a being is not a person.
The God of the Bible clearly said He is 1 and never said He is “3 persons 1 being”, so He cannot be counted like how humans are counted in persons. So, our friend Ken Temple is gradually seeing the sense in Islam in that there is ONLY ONE God and that God cannot be counted as persons like how humans are counted as persons.
If God can be counted as persons like in Trinity, then that Trinity God is not God because he is not only ONE God but many i.e. can be counted. The real God who is not a Trinity God is ONE and ONE being cannot be counted as 3 persons/beings.
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
But these are metaphorical uses of language as “Father” and “Son”
I say;
Why not brothers or cousins which will be a perfect match, since they are equal. Son and Father whether metaphorical, literal or adopted means one is greater than other and no one is greater than God. Jesus who is the Son appears to be subordinate and submissive(Muslim) to the Father, which makes him a Muslim rather than God.
Thanks.
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why not? Because the words of Scripture are limited to “Father” and “Son” (and the Holy Spirit” ( Matthew 28:29; 2 Cor. 13:14)
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If the three share the same essence in all fullness, then all of them became a human being to got nailed on the cross in the 1st century not only the son. Otherwise you have to admit that each one has only the (1/3) of that essence.
Not to mention that christians till now have not provided any answer for how God does die or why we cannot call each one as separate being though each one has his own identity, free will, and mind?
You have not provided any any answer from the perspective of the text, logic, and history. All these three factors are against your belief.
Ken, why do you keep arguing with this falsehood while you know form all your heart that Jesus has nothing to do with this nonsense language?
We have refuted you about (600 years later)many times, so what does the matter?
Have not you reflected that worshiping a human being who used to defecate has nothing to do with Allah(sw)?
Do you really think that all this huge creation got created for people in order to believe that a human being got crucified in the first century?
So that all the wisdom behind this creations including heaven and earth for you Ken?
Are you crazy?
Repent before ” The Day when there will not benefit [anyone] wealth or children. But only one who comes to Allah with a sound heart. And Paradise will be brought near [that Day] to the righteous. And Hellfire will be brought forth for the deviators, And it will be said to them, “Where are those you used to worship. Other than Allah ? Can they help you or help themselves?. So they will be overturned into Hellfire, they and the deviators. And the soldiers of Iblees, all together. They will say while they dispute therein, By Allah, we were indeed in manifest error. When we equated you with the Lord of the worlds. And no one misguided us except the criminals. So now we have no intercessors. And not a devoted friend. Then if we only had a return [to the world] and could be of the believers. Indeed in that is a sign, but most of them were not to be believers. And indeed, your Lord – He is the Exalted in Might, the Merciful.” QT
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ken, does the father EXIST with the son/ in company of the son?
or does each person EXIST ONLY as one being?
does one existence mean 3 distinct existences?
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Ken Temple
You used Trinity, hypostasis, 3 persons 1 God, eternal generation etc. which are not in the Bible to refer to the Almighty God, and you are now advising us to limit ourselves to the words in the Bible. Double standards.
Ok. Lets limit ourselves to what is written in the Bible.
Jesus in the Bible clearly said;
John 17:3
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sen
The only true God is the Father alone and Jesus is not the only true God but he was sent by the only true God who is not Jesus Christ. So Jesus is not the only true God bur someone else and that person said He is the only one God and no one else.
All the above is Biblical and clearly stated by God. So, Jesus is not God according to Jesus himself. What do you want again?
I will visit you to have good food, Allah willing. You and Dr. James White are not that white racist evangelical Christians who hate Muslims and immigrants.
Thanks.
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Ken ,
God can forgive you without He being dead on the cross because this idea contradicts the definition of God and who He is. God doesn’t carry sins, and God doesn’t die.
The irony here is that christians keep telling us that God cannot forgive sins without the blood because it contradicts the justice of God!! You forget that the you violate the definition of God clearly to satisfy your deformed definition of God’s justice that you’ve invented!
There’s no way to get out form the hell of this darkness except by embracing Islam which is the light and the mercy for this world
“O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book. By which Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path” QT 5:15-16
Jesus has nothing to do with teaching, which has been proved historically.
Have not you reflected that worshiping a human being who used to defecate has nothing to do with Allah(sw)?
Do you really think that all this huge creation got created for people in order to believe that a human being got crucified in the first century?
So that all the wisdom behind this creation including heaven and earth for you Ken?
Are you crazy?
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The massive amount of intertextuality in the OT and the NT proves you are wrong.
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2013/07/07/rabbi-admits-that-the-day-of-atonement-is-parallel-to-jesus-christ/
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how could that be “clear” at that time, when the Christians of the Byzantine Empire did not speak Arabic, and for centuries, the Muslim World did not even allow for translating the Qur’an into other languages?
Jesus Al Masih taught these truths for sure and it was all established 500-600 years before your prophet appeared on the scene. It is your religion that changed and corrupted the message, since it denies the atonement, the Deity of Christ, the sin nature, the eternal Sonship of Christ, the incarnation, the resurrection, the ascension and intercession, salvation by grace alone and through faith alone (with true faith in Christ always means true repentance from sin) – Mark 1:15, Mark 10:45; Mark 14:25; 14:60-64 (The Jews knew that the Messiah is also “the Son of God”, and fulfillment of Daniel 7:13-14 and Psalm 110 and Psalm 2:1-12 and Isaiah 52:13-15 and 53:1-12.
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ken, how is the son BEING in the COMPANY of the father when each is existing as “one being” ?
how does the father send the son when each is existing as 1 ?
ken, do you believe that each person is a separate existence on its own?
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define company:
.
the fact or condition of being with another or others, especially in a way that provides friendship and enjoyment.
that’s true for the trinity ken, the only question is how is “one being” enjoying itself ?
you have 3 SEPARATE existences which enjoy the other.
so how do 3 separated existences enjoying each other exist as “one being”
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Ken said
“how could that be “clear” at that time, when the Christians of the Byzantine Empire did not speak Arabic, and for centuries, the Muslim World did not even allow for translating the Qur’an into other languages?”
The proof that you’re worng is the Persian people whom you target with your message of worshipping three gods. They have translated the (meanings) of Quran from the beginning, then they became masters in the Arabic language.
The proof you’re wrong is that 80% of the Islamic population are not Arab! All of them get the clear message of Quran. Yes, there’s been caution for how to deal with the translations since Allah(sw) has spoken this Quran in Arabic, yet the meanings of Quran and the teachers of Quran to explain it for non Arab muslims were & have been always available in the Islamic world. They were in Madinah, Baghdad, Damascus, Kufah, Basra, and Khurasan.
On the other hand, your bible had not been available for ordinary people neither in their language nor in its original language which have been the cause of corruption & exploitation by Monks for years.
It’s very ironic that christians keep complaining that Islam encourages Muslims to know Quran with its original language as if it’s something bad!
After all, christians believe that the death of God is the best thing we can ever imagine, so no wonder they have this so damaged standard. !
How do you think, man? By which standard? I’v no idea how satan does that to your minds.
“Indeed, those who dispute concerning the signs of Allah without [any] authority having come to them – there is not within their breasts except pride, [the extent of] which they cannot reach. So seek refuge in Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Seeing.” َُQT 40:56
Ken said :
“The massive amount of intertextuality in the OT and the NT proves you are wrong.”
That’s not true. Why don’t jews agree with you on this matter?
Leviticus 16 is against this vapid belief.
If the blood was the main thing for God, why would God state this
“For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
he sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.”
Why do you always read the bible according to Paul’s lens?
Allah(sw) has warned you, Ken!
” . . . and do not follow the inclinations of a people who had gone astray before and misled many and have strayed from the soundness of the way.” QT 5:77
However and for sake of argument, let’s say that God cannot forgive sins without blood.
Cannot God create a perfect sacrifice for that? I mean He let a goat to carry all sins of Israelites, and He let it free in the desert (Lev 16:22), so what’s the idea of God being a creature to get nailed on the cross? “Exalted is He and high above what they say by great sublimity” QT 17:43.
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if the issue was clear, why did the Muslims start fighting and killing each other right after Muhammad died? If it was clear, why did the Sunni Persians change over to Shiite Islam in the 1500s ?
There were some translations of the meanings, but it was very very slow and not available to most average person. They were conquered by first Jihad and war and Sharia over society, and then later very slowly, the ones who surrendered were educated; but did no go deep into the heart; and proof of this is the variety and disagreements once the top down ruler (Caliph) is either disagreed with (Persians in the 1500s), Arab Shiites in the south of Iraq (from 600s AD onward), and all the other differences over Fiq, Sharia, Sufi schools, Alawites, Ahmadiyye, Druze in Lebanon, 7ers (Ismailis) and 5ers in Oman (Zayidis), etc.
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That’s not true. Why don’t jews agree with you on this matter?
You forget that almost all of the first century Christians were Jews; and they are the ones who held to the truth of both the OT and the NT fulfillment of the OT. Peter, John, Mark, Matthew, Saul/Paul, James, Jude, the author of Hebrews (probably Barnabas) – were all Jews.
The Jews who rejected Christ were judged by the 7 year war and destruction of the temple in 70 AD – proof that Al Mashi is the final sacrifice.
The Jews who survived were scattered all over the world and the modern Jewish interpretations are some agnostic, secular, atheist and Rabbinic Judaism that seeks to come againt NT fulfillment, but they contradict their own Scripture, because they have basically gotten rid of the OT sacrificial system, because they know that it was teaching what the NT says.
Most Jews are atheists, secularists, and agnostics today because of bitterness against God for allowing the Holocaust of the Nazis and also the centuries of wandering and being persecuted.
If you read the article I posted and read it carefully and look up all the verses, you will see that you are wrong and the Rabbi is wrong to come against the Messiah Jesus, but he was right in that he agreed that the parallel of Jesus on the cross is parallel with the day of atonement.
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“The Jews who rejected Christ were judged by the 7 year war and destruction of the temple in 70 AD – proof that Al Mashi is the final sacrifice.”
God knows the future and he knew that a world religion (christianity) would link its idolatry to the temple. as a sign for all of us, God destroyed the temple because He hates idolatry.
its called links/roots.
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Ken still has been avoided the crucial questions I asked.
Ken said
“why did the Muslims start fighting and killing each other right after Muhammad died?”
Simply not true!
Ken said
“If it was clear, why did the Sunni Persians change over to Shiite Islam in the 1500s ?”
What happened to Iranians in Iran was a mere political change done by the sword during Safavid dynasty which was a big ally with christians against Islam.
In the margin, It’s like what we have seen in Iraq when they used drills against Muslims, yet in the movie (i.e. American Sniper) portrayed that fact contrary.
However, you may ask your shiite friends how Quran affirms their religion right now?
You may ask them what they believe is because Quran is not clear or because they stop using and reading Quran.
But the real question is how Jesus’ disciples didn’t get the ” clear message ” of the god who dies on the cross.
“And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,
But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened.”
If that what Jesus left behind for his own disciples, so what do we expect for the poor jews?
Ken said
“There were some translations of the meanings, but it was very very slow and not available to most average person. They were conquered by first Jihad and war and Sharia over society, and then later very slowly”
Simply not true! Don’t try ever to link the history of Quran and how was speared with your bible.
Ken said
“Sharia, Sufi schools, Alawites, Ahmadiyye, Druze in Lebanon, 7ers (Ismailis) and 5ers in Oman (Zayidis), etc.”
If you want to play the sectarian card, then I can ask the same question, especially with you (i.e.Protestants).
I mean you refuse to consider catholic as christians while the vast majority of the christian history and its literature including your bible are a product of catholics and other churches.
Qadiani are not muslims, and whatever you try to say in contrast to hide that fact that Nabeel was a liar does not work, so save your time.
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Ken said
“You forget that almost all of the first century Christians were Jews”
Never! This is the fact that muslims, jews, and atheists keep reminding christians with because you christians who forget this fact!
They were jews so they kept the law and the system of sacrifice, and they questioned paul about his opposite teaching.
For this matter I like Reza Aslan since he has the ability to explain better. It starts at (50:51′). Enjoy 🙂
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the verse Reza Aslan quoted means Christ is the end- goal (Greek – telos τελος – where we get “teleology” from – the study of purpose) of the law – the goal, purpose, aim, destination, (Romans 10:4) – it does not mean “end” in the sense of to do away with. It means the purpose/ goal/ aim of the law is to drive us to trust Christ . Same as Galatians 3:24.
claims Luke never called Paul an apostle – not true – Acts 14:4; 14:14
said Tarsus is a port city. No, it is not a port; it is 20 miles inland.
said Paul called “Jesus flesh” – what in the world is Aslan talking about there? Most specific context to what he is talking about is needed.
sets up a false dichotomy between James vs. Paul
Galatians 1 and 2 and 1 Corinthians 15 and Acts 15 contradicts what Reza says.
James is not called “bishop of bishops”. James is called “the bishop of Jerusalem”, but not “bishop of bishops”. First time that phrase appears is in Cyprian around 257 AD and it was a negative in rebuking Stephen, bishop of Rome, for claiming to be “the bishop of bishops”
It is ironic that Reza Aslan calls Paul an “unlikeable character”; because the way Aslan constantly claims he is an expert and scholar of Religions and lied about his Phd – his arrogance oozes from him and his curses people who disagree with him with really dirty and disgusting English curse words.
Many other scholars and others have exposed Reza Aslan’s lying about his credentials and spinning of facts. He is a “creative writer” professor – that means he knows how to spin things (he is skilled at lying).
this video (among among many others, and many articles) demonstrate his arrogance and lying. Especially the first part which shows video clips of him claiming to be an expert, a Phd. in the history of religions, etc. Arrogance drips from him. His Phd. is in sociology and he is a professor of creative writing.
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Another proof that Aslan lies about his scholarly credentials.
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/07/scholarly-misrepresentation
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Also, even though Aslan is completely wrong about James vs. Paul; Aslan believes the real historical Jesus died on the cross !! (Contradicts Surah 4:157)
Also, Aslan does not believe that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, another contradiction to Islam (Surah 3 and Surah 19), among others.
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James calls Jesus “our Lord of glory” or “our glorious Lord” (James 2:1) and he believed in the atoning death & resurrection of Jesus – 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 – Jesus appeared to James in His resurrection body.
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so, no; it still stands that most of all of the first century Christians were Jews.
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I was out for a few days and could not answer sooner.
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Craig Evans, whom Yahya Snow and Paul Williams used recently for their perspective, completely eviscerates Reza Aslan’s book, Zealot.
http://www.dennyburk.com/craig-evans-eviscerates-reza-aslans-zealot/
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Documented problems with Aslan’s book Zealot, from another scholar:
http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/08/09/3822264.htm
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I have no dea why christians start crying once we bring Reza:)
suddenly they become under fox news’ spell ” why do you write about Jesus while yiu’re a muslim” 🙂
It’s pathetic.
Reza Aslan is a scholar whether you like it christians or not. Just deal with it.
Moreover, all what he has been saying is not new in academia. It’s not a surprising at all for any scholar that there’s a split between Paul in one hand ,and the disciples of Jesus on other hand.
I believe that even Martin Hengel mentend that in his book st Peter as dr Shabir said.
They were jews who had no idea what christians of today are talking about.
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The video that exposes Reza Aslan and demonstrates he lied many times is by an atheist / secularist, not a Christian. He is a scholar of “creative writing” which means he knows how to lie and spin things really well and deceive people.
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there is no split between Paul and James and Peter – they all agreed with each other – Galatians 2:7-9; Acts 15
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Bart Ehrman has no problem with dr Reza’s writings. In fact, Bart has praised his writings. Again, what dr Reza has said is not new as Dr Erman said as well.
In academia, you can accept or refute the other by certain standards, which is something dr Reza has been open for.
Fox news’ attitude is for the clown’s school not here, Ken.
Moreover, Galatians is the very book which demonstrates that there’s a split between them. It demonstres the hypocrisy of your prophet paul who never used his alleged authority in front of the true disciples of Jesus.
Once we corner you Ken, you start to be the fundamental christian who thinks his god got nailed on a cross which justifies our existence in this universe , and the bible is 100% accurate. Dr Evan got slapped heavily by Ehrman when he tried to hold this fundamental view in academia.
My advise for you to read Quran with a submitted heart. You can easily find your example in it because indeed you’re in the dark.
You should learn your lesson from Nabeel’s death.
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BTW, atheists don’t like Reza as much as christians who don’t like him.
” and his theology degree at Harvard covered Bible and Church history, and required him to master New Testament Greek. So in short, he is who he says he is.”
Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/accordingtomatthew/2015/08/stop-calling-reza-aslan-a-fraud-and-learn-how-academia-works/#qqmbkELPcAZMp1sS.99
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A basic mistake that he made over the Greek word telos / τελος in Romans 10:4 and he made a lot of other mistakes in his book Zealot, which I have read and pointed out in earlier articles. He may have had 2 years of seminary Greek, but he is not a master of it at all. A little knowledge is dangerous. He knows mostly the liberal type theories and scholars. But he agrees that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified and died on the Roman cross under Pontius Pilate, so that fact by itself takes down all of Islam by one false verse in the Qu’ran (4:157).
The biggest problem is that he takes his undergraduate level and master’s learning levels degrees and extends them into his Phd on sociology and brags that he has that level at the Phd level and constantly calls himself an expert on religions, etc. and he clearly lied about his Phd. He knows liberal material and his real expertise is in “creative writing” – which means he knows how to skew and spin things – very dangerous.
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The fact that there’s a split in the early church has never been a “wild” idea in academia.
Reza is a scholar, and in any academic writing there are strong points and others not, which Reza has been always open about & aware of.
Your view which is just a fundamental view values zero in the academic realm.
” he clearly lied about his Phd. He knows liberal material and his real expertise is in “creative writing” – which means he knows how to skew and spin things – very dangerous”
Don’t worry! He is not Nabeel who used to lie about his ex belief.
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The Ahmadiyeh don’t read the Ahadith, so it seems when Nabeel started reading and investigating the Sira and Hadith and Sunna and Tarikh and Fiq, he understood that Sunni Islam was more the real Islam; but sometimes he say he was Ahmadiyyeh (but not enough), and yet he clearly says the Ahmadiyyeh agree with the 5 pillars of duties, and the 6 pillars of belief. It seems that he was NOT taught the details of the Mirza Ahmad / final fulfillment of Al Madih and Al Masih aspects, growing up in the USA.
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If any one gave these vapid excuses for that liar, I’d call him a liar as well, especially that Nabeel & missionaries keep telling that he’s a “devout muslim”.
This page is from the book of his ex “prophet”, which is considered according to that cult an equal to Quran
Let’s read it again, Ken
Mirza is with God at the stage of unity? Hmmmm 😒
“heavens are with you as they are with me” 😒
You know what Quran says about this, right?
For example this verse
“Say, [O Muhammad], “Invoke those you claim [as deities] besides Allah .” They do not possess an atom’s weight [of ability] in the heavens or on the earth, and they do not have therein any partnership [with Him], nor is there for Him from among them any assistant.”
Of course if happened, and you get involved with the members of that cult, they would give you an interpretation Arabs have nothing to do with.
Mirza is like your prophet paul. Mirza even insulted the prophet’s companions because as he claimed “they didn’t understand the prophet pbuh”.
That false prophet is like your false prophet paul when he lied that he knew Jesus (the heavenly one) more than the true Jesus’ disciples who were nothing for paul! 🙂
In fact, Unitarian & JW are likely to have their mirrors in the history of christianity, but qadiani cult? No way!
Mormons believe in Jesus’ divinity , his death, and the resurrection, so they are closer for Trinitarian christianity than that cult to Islam.
Also, it’s impossible that Nabeel, whose Mom is a missionary, didn’t know that his ex belief affirms that Jesus will not return
You may watch this interview held after he has been diagnosed with cancer (14:54′)
He didn’t stop lying to presented himself as a muslim while he has not been.
Moreover, He lied when he said he would’ve gone to Syria to fight with ISIS as if he didn’t know -though his missionary Mom had trained him – that the concept of Jihad got canceled for Mirza was so clear about this matter in his book ( Al Arabeen). In fact, Mirza praised the British empire although it was slaughtering muslims in India. It seems he thought they were the (servants of God) as your false prophet thought about Roman empire. Especially when we know that Mirza wrote about his family and it history for serving the British crown.
Also, Nabeel lied when he said that Jihad Al-Nafas ( i.e. the inner struggle) is not found in Quran nor in six book of hadiths. Well, it’s found! Why didn’t je just admit he has not been a muslim, and he has not been familiar with Quran nor Sunnah.
In conclusion, Nabeel was a big lair as much as Ergun is. Missionaries like David wood, Mike Licona, and you Ken are liars when you give these silly excuses for him.
I’m not sure why Nabeel was hanging with that clown to begin with unless he was like him. Again, Nabeel was a big liar so deal with it, Ken.
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I freely admit I don’t know much about the Ahmadiyeh details. I only know that they thing Mirza Gholam was some kind of fulfillment of Al Mahdi and Al Masih and that they don’t read the Hadith and they don’t believe in Jihad type stuff.
It seems that Nabeel went back and researched Sunni Islam and the hadith ,etc. and came to the conclusion that that was real Islam.
The most famous Hadith (that is quoted all the time in the west to try and dismiss physical warfare Jihad like Al Qaedah and Isis type terrorism, etc. ) about the inner struggle against the Nafs and Hawwa is not in the 6 Sunni Hadiths, but it comes from a weak chain in the “history of Baghdad”. Islamic scholar Haddad talks about that here. http://www.livingislam.org/n/dgjh_e.html
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Mormons are polytheists; so your argument is wrong. They are more polytheistic than Hindus. Also they thing Elohim was once a man and evolved into a god and had sex with Mary. Disgusting religion and not even close to anything Christian.
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I agree with Dr. White, that Nabeel should have said all the time (he only said that sometimes) he was an ex-Ahmadiyyeh, but also, from their point of view; they think they are Muslims. Mormons say the same thing today; trying to say that are somehow Christian. I agree with you that Nabeel should have said he was former Ahmadiyeh, and also that he researched more into Sunni Islam and discovered it is closer to real Islam than whatever his parents told him. Probably like many Roman Catholics or mainline liberal Protestants – they don’t know the details of their own faith.
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Ken Temple
September 26, 2017 • 5:12 pm
The Ahmadiyeh don’t read the Ahadith, so it seems when Nabeel started reading and investigating the Sira and Hadith and Sunna and Tarikh and Fiq, he understood that Sunni Islam was more the real Islam; but sometimes he say he was Ahmadiyyeh (but not enough), and yet he clearly says the Ahmadiyyeh agree with the 5 pillars of duties, and the 6 pillars of belief. It seems that he was NOT taught the details of the Mirza Ahmad / final fulfillment of Al Madih and Al Masih aspects, growing up in the USA.
I say;
So, Nabeel Quraish was not a Muslim. Muslims were taught ALL hadith’s, fiq, Tarikh, sunnah, seerah, nahw, Arabic etc.
He did not know all these until he was taught by David Wood who is not an Islamic Scholar.
“Sometimes he says he was Ahmadyyeh (but not enough), Ahmadiyyeh agree with the 5 pillars of duties, and the 6 pillars of belief.” – Ken Temple.
Is this not lie? my good Reverend friend whom I will visit one day to eat good food. It is the same as when a protestant Christian converts to another religion but keep preaching that he eats the flesh of Jesus when he was a Christian. Catholics believed in Trinity and Jesus death for their sins just like protestants. That protestant lied. That was what Nabeel did.
“It seems that he was NOT taught the details of the Mirza Ahmad / final fulfillment of Al Madih and Al Masih aspects, growing up in the USA.”- Ken Temple.
Then why will he be an expert of his “former religion-Qadiani”? If he was not taught all these things? He preaches to Christians as a “former Muslim” who knows his former religion and getting huge sums of money from some lazy Christians who don’t want to learn.
In all these preaching to his Christian audience, he never knew he Mirza Ahmad / final fulfillment of Al Madih and Al Masih aspects? That makes him a liar to preach as the one who knows his former religion and extorting money from Christians.
Thanks.
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Most Sunni Muslims don’t know the Qur’an much, much less the Hadith and Sira and Tarikh and Fiq. Most Shiites don’t know their details either. They are nominal, know the ritual prayers, don’t pray 5 times a day, but go to the Eid’s and go to Friday mosque sometimes, etc. and they know what their particular Sheikh or Mollah says, etc.
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Ken Temple
“I agree with you that Nabeel should have said he was former Ahmadiyeh, and also that he researched more into Sunni Islam and discovered it is closer to real Islam than whatever his parents told him”
I say;
What makes Ahmadiyah closer to real Islam?
5 Pillars?
Catholics are closer to Protestants.
-They all believed in Trinity.
-They all believed Jesus died for their sins.
-They all believed Jesus is their personal saviour.
Just because of these, is it not lie for a an ex-protestant to claim he eats the blood of Jesus when he was an ex Christian?
I don’t know whether Paul Williams was a Catholic of Protestant. If he was a Protestant, does that gives him right to say he eats the blood of Jesus when he was a Christian?
You would have been the first person to call him a liar.
What ever 5 pillars we share with Ahmadiya’s, it is a lie for Nabeel to claim he will go and fight in Syria. That is a lie. Even if they are closer, the Ahmaddiya’s will not go to Syria and fight as Nabeel claims. That is a lie.
Thanks.
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It seems Nabeel was meaning that since he studied the Hadith and Jihad stuff – and the Isis interpretation of those texts. He should have admitted the Ahmadiyye don’t follow the Hadith, etc. (or they have selected certain portions out, etc. – I don’t know what they do with Hadith except I know they don’t believe in Jihad).
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No Ken!
You have to admit that Nabeel was a liar so are David, Mike ,and other missionaries. I’d exclude James White.
“about the inner struggle against the Nafs and Hawwa is not in the 6 Sunni Hadiths,”
I’m talking about the concept of (inner struggle). I will give you a chance to apologize and admit that you have no idea about Islam in this matter because I’m telling you this concept is FOUND in Quran and hadiths.
I’m waiting you, Ken. Moreover, why didn’t Nabeel know about this concept? This is our topic. 🙂 Hmmm?
“Mormons are polytheists; so your argument is wrong. They are more polytheistic than Hindus. Also they thing Elohim was once a man and evolved into a god and had sex with Mary. Disgusting religion and not even close to anything Christian”
Whatever! They believe in this statement which is the basis of your religion
“because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Roman 10:9
Also, they have their ways to believe in one god and many gods at the same time as much as you do. Each side has has his ways of talking nonsense. Regarding Mary, they have their mirrors in the history of christianity. It’s not something new. What I’m trying to say that how dare christians to say that Nabeel was a devout muslims for that cult has nothing to do with Islam unless they are liars.
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the Islamic Scholar Gabril Haddad proved that the famous Jihad text is not in the 6 canonical Hadith nor the Qur’an.
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I. Marfu`
As a Prophetic saying this hadith has two similar wordings from Jabir:
1. “Some troops came back from an expedition and went to see the Messenger of Allah MHMD sallallahu `alayhi wa-Sallam. He said: “You have come for the best, from the smaller jihad (al-jihad al-asghar) to the greater jihad (al-jihad al-akbar).” Someone said, “What is the greater jihad?” He said: “The servant’s struggle against his lust”(mujahadat al-`abdi hawah).
Al-Bayhaqi narrated it in al-Zuhd al-Kabir (Haydar ed. p. 165 §373 = p. 198 §374) and said: “This is a chain that contains weakness” (hadha isnadun fihi da`f). One might cautiously conclude from this that al-Bayhaqi himself does not consider it a forgery in view of his shart [ie. condition] that he does not narrate forgeries in any of his books except he indicates it.
2. “The Prophet MHMD upon him and his Family and Companions blessings and peace returned from one his expeditions and said: “You have come for the best. You have come from the smaller jihad to the greater jihad.” They said, “What is the greater jihad, Messenger of Allah?” He said: “The servant’s struggle against his lust.”
Al-Khatib narrated it in Tarikh Baghdad (13:493=13:523).
see more at Gabril Haddad’s article:
http://www.livingislam.org/n/dgjh_e.html
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Mormons do not believe Romans 10:9-10 in the proper way that Protestants understand those verses. Sorry, Mormons are even farther away from Biblical Christianity than Islam is – I agree with Dr. White on that also.
Original Mormonism admitted it is polytheistic and Elohim was once a man who evolved into a god and lived on the planet Kolob and came down and had sex with Mary. A truly disgusting false religion.
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Ken Temple
September 26, 2017 • 7:44 pm
Most Sunni Muslims don’t know the Qur’an much, much less the Hadith and Sira and Tarikh and Fiq. Most Shiites don’t know their details either. They are nominal, know the ritual prayers, don’t pray 5 times a day, but go to the Eid’s and go to Friday mosque sometimes, etc. and they know what their particular Sheikh or Mollah says, etc
I say;
Those Muslims don’t write books claiming to know Islam like how Nabeel did. They don’t have paid talks about Islam like how Nabeel and Ravi Zacharious Ministry did.
Most Christians don’t know the Bible and their religion very well. From the beginning of Christianity, Christians depend on their Church Fathers till today.
Muslims depend on Quran, hadith, seerah, aqeeda, fiq etc. and our intellect, mind and brain. We do not follow everything our Sheikh or Mullah says.
Most Muslims send their children to Islamic schools. Every Muslims knows the basic of his religion and some aspects of other religions.
Thanks.
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ok, so what? Nabeel found out later about the Hadith and Jihad stuff and he concluded that Sunni Islam was real Islam; but you are right in that he did not make all that clear in his talks and presented himself more a former Sunni Islam in talks, although in his book (Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus) he admitted up front he was from the Ahmadiyyeh sect.
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I’m waiting you, Ken. 🙂
I’m telling you the concept of Jihad Alnafas (inner struggle) is FOUND in Quran and hadith.
I’ve told you before, the students of the clown will be crushed in the real apologetic field.
BTW, this is not a fair statement!
” Most Sunni Muslims don’t know the Qur’an much, much less the Hadith and Sira and Tarikh and Fiq.”
Don’t apply your situation in christianity on us.
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Ken Temple
September 26, 2017 • 8:04 pm
ok, so what? Nabeel found out later about the Hadith and Jihad stuff and he concluded that Sunni Islam was real Islam; but you are right in that he did not make all that clear in his talks and presented himself more a former Sunni Islam in talks, although in his book (Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus) he admitted up front he was from the Ahmadiyyeh sect.
I say;
How did he find out? Through the interpretation of David Wood and other un scholarly Islamic interpretations? That is insincere due to the fact that, he is lecturing Christians as an “ex-Muslim” who knew his former faith to get money from them. He has left all the money he got from Christians and gone.
Yes, he did not make all that clear as Dr. James White who is the only true believer of Christ who tells the truth on this one,and was insulted, said Nabeel is not telling the truth. Yes, Nabeel will not tell the truth because his lies will get him money from Christians who want to hear lies about Islam.
Thanks.
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I have never seen a good refutation of David Wood; when he stays on doctrine. You guys are just angry at him because he has exposed a lot of problems with Islam in the Muslim world, and the Jihad / Al Qaedah / isis type stuff and SOME Muslims, but pervasive problems in the Muslim world. I don’t emphasize that stuff as much as he does. He opens up the Qur’an and Hadith and quotes straight from the sources.
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“Mormons are even farther away from Biblical Christianity than Islam is – I agree with Dr. White on that also.”
Mormons are like you . They think that believing in many gods doesn’t contradict monotheism as when Jesus disciples will be one with God. It’s similar to the theosis belief in some sense. It should make sense for you since you too believe that three distinct persons, each of whom is fully god doesn’t contradict the oneness of God.
But as muslims, we know that you’re both polytheists, and the linguistic games doesn’t work.
This’s in the margin! Enjoy 🙂
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Dr. White was right and Tovia Singer’s joke was funny. Shabir’s part was wrong, and he even quoted Dr. White about only one God and the same God in both OT and NT, but disingeniously using a Trinitarian’s quote against the Trinity !! Amazing. Also, “theoretically” -no, the Son cannot beget another son. goofy reasoning; and there are verses and whole passages that limit the persons of the Trinity to 3 – Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Ephesians 1:3-14; I Peter 1:1-2; Matthew 3:13-17; Luke 1:34-35
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Ken Temple
September 26, 2017 • 11:17 pm
I have never seen a good refutation of David Wood; when he stays on doctrine. You guys are just angry at him because he has exposed a lot of problems with Islam in the Muslim world, and the Jihad / Al Qaedah / isis type stuff and SOME Muslims, but pervasive problems in the Muslim world. I don’t emphasize that stuff as much as he does. He opens up the Qur’an and Hadith and quotes straight from the sources.
I say;
But when we open the Bible and read from it, you do not like it and correct us. We expose the evangelical Christians vote for war in Muslims lands and now voting for banning Muslims from entering USA. We exposed how Jesus became angry(sinful nature of Jesus) and destroyed peoples tables and chairs and the Christians follow his examples and killed those who will not believe in their faith because Jesus said his enemies must be killed.
We exposed the Christian crusaders killing Muslims, Jews and copts.We exposed the Christians persecution of natives, slaves, Mormons, Catholics, Jews in the USA. Now it is the turn of Muslims to face that persecution from Christians. The evangelical Christians of the USA i.e. people like Jack Van Impe, Pat Robertson and his sons etc. always have someone to be blamed. They blamed blacks, Jews, natives, Latinos, Catholics, Mormons and now blaming Muslims.
David Wood.
We Muslims knows David Wood has no qualification in Islam but opens the Quran and hadith and read it without proper classical Arabic understandings. He is not alone. Robert Spencer, Nabeel, Sam etc. are all included.
Dr. James White will not agree with you that David Wood knows about Islam.
Watch your mentor disagreeing with you.
Dr. James White says shame on you Ken. Shame on David Wood, Shame on Robert Spencer etc.
Thanks.
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I actually totally agree with Dr. White in that video.
My point about David Wood, was “when he stays on doctrine”, meaning issues like the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, the word of God, Son of God, salvation by faith, etc.
I clearly wrote that the Jihad stuff in Islamic sources is taken by “SOME” Muslims, and that is exactly what Dr. White said.
I agree with Dr. White on what he said about context and historical background, very important.
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Why do you repeat the lie about “banning Muslims” ? the temporary travel restrictions are only for 6 countries, and it is TEMPORARY!
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“You guys are just angry at him because he has exposed a lot of problems with Islam in the Muslim world, and the Jihad / Al Qaedah / isis type stuff and SOME Muslims”
First of all, your opinion doesn’t really matter for you are ignorant in many matters about Islam.
Also, you say that because you are a product of that school.
We are not ashamed from Quran &hadith rather we are proud of. David wood quotes from Quran and hadith with his own interpretation. May Allah punish him severely.
For example, when he qouted the hadith about cursing jews and christians for they make the graves of their prophets as palaces for worshipping as if that makes the prophet a flase prophet! It’s really a stupid reason. Then what about Elisha when he cursed children in your bible? False prophet?
Again, when David qouted that the prophet was wearing the cloth of Aisha(ra), is not that a great example of how ignorant he is in Arabic and history ?
You yourself Ken has been slapped heavily here once you start using his silly materials.
And as you can see, we’ve exposed Nabeel’s lies that David had trained him to tell, and you couldn’t do anything about.
David has many opponent christians who don’t agree with his stupid style, yet David keeps saying that mocking is something Paul and Jesus are with not against of. But the question is, could he use the same style with jews, especially Jesus was more than clear that jews who did not believe are ( sons of satan and snakes) ? Would your hero even dare?
In the margin,
Do you think Iraqi muslims have all the right to fight against US & UK in Iraq, especially that US has sent snipers whom Licona praises to hunt children and women? I mean US invaded their land?
BTW, Evans got humiliated heavily in that debate wirh Tovia. And Tovia’s joke as much was funny as it’s a fact. Jews have no reason to believe in Jesus as paul’s religion presents him. It’s only with Islam jews have no choice except to believe in Jesus.
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about 2 Kings 2:23-24 – They were young lads – rebellious teenagers – 14-18 year olds who were ruffians/ gangsters/thugs ( Na’ar נער has that range), they were rebellious teenagers who believed in pagan gods of Baal and Ashteroth worship; they were not little children.
The judgment on them was a fulfillment of Leviticus 26:21-22.
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I don’t know what the question about Iraq and the war there has anything to do with our discussion. It is so complicated because of the nature of the 3 different cultures (Kurds in North, Sunnis in middle, and Shiites in South), the history that goes back to Ottoman Empire and British dividing it up after World War 1, and Saddam Hussein and his evil dictatorship.
No one can unravel the complicated nature of it.
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” disingeniously using a Trinitarian’s quote against the Trinity !! Amazing. Also, “theoretically” -no, the Son cannot beget another son. goofy reasoning”
Dr Ally was more than right when he asked that excellent question which indicates how sharp mind he has 🙂 May Allap protect him.
Why is it impossible for the son to beget his own son as the father has begotten the son? And No Ken, there’s no indication in your bible that there are only three persons, and Shabir in his master debate with Nabeel refuted Nabeel’s desperate tries to prove the opposite.
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Because the term “begotten” does not mean what you are interpreting it to mean when applied to eternity past with God, who is Spirit – both the Father and the Son are Spirits into eternity past. The concept of eternal generation means that the Son / the Word (the mind of God expressing His thoughts in communication) is a way of trying to describe the one nature in three persons (when including the Holy Spirit). There is no physical begetting.
That is why most modern translations don’t even use the word “only begotten” because it is a wrong translation. Monogenes μονογενης rather means “the only unique one”, “one of a kind”. So, total uniqueness means He can turn around and have another son like a human. There is only one God.
One of the main proofs of that is how that word is used in Hebrews 11:17 about Isaac , since Abraham had Ishmael before Isaac, it does not mean “the only born from him”, rather it means “the only unique one” (that was the promised one from Sara as mother, according to the promises in the text of Genesis).
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sorry for typo. I am getting old. 🙂
So, total uniqueness means He can NOT turn around and have another son like a human.
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Not really, Ken
The history of christianly proves that you’re wrong. You yourself uses the term (generated). How can the son be generated? Especially when we know that the gospel of Luke had no idea of pre existed Jesus according to the NT scholars.
Also, why would you call that person the Son? Why not the brother? It’s very obvious that christians developed these meanings after the Greco Roman culture had applied its shadow on your religion.
Regarding the words and meanings, it’s really not our fault. You may ask any christian in the street, and see what he would answer you.
But for you, we have been saying that the language has lost its job with you. You are for us like the Mormons for you.
You both speak nonsense.
Do you really think that when Jesus siad why do call me good there’s no good except God alone, he excepted from that jew to understand your nonsense language about ( one)? Matthew did not think so, and that why he corrupted the text.
I challange you to give me one difference between you and those who worship three gods. The consequences of worshipping three persons( i.e gods) are the same of worshipping three gods on the heart and mind.
Finally, no! we don’t agree with you about Issac and Ishmael peace be upon them both. In fact, that statement makes us question the authenticity of the Jewish text, and mybay that why Abdullah ibn Salam said it’s Ishmael not Isaac though that is not a big deal from the Islamic perspective.
In fact, the only descendants whom God fulfilled his promise in Genesis( 15:18) are children of Abraham through Ismael. This is just a fact and a mere history. Israelites till this moment has never controlled that area of land. From Syria to Egypt has never happaned to Israelites. In fact, archeology science demonstrates that they did not control Palestine. Yes they dwelled but not as rulers. On the other hand, the fullfilment of that promise is more than clear through Ishmaelites. They have brought all that area and its people and even more to worship God of Abraham alone. It’s the same prophecy you find in Daniel 2.
In the margin,
Do you think Iraqi muslims have all the right to fight against US & UK in Iraq, especially that US has sent snipers whom Licona praises to hunt children and women? I mean US invaded their land?
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eternally generated means the Word / the Son was always with the Father by the same substance / essence – the mind and word always flowing out from God. That is what logos / λογος points to – “the mind expressing itself in words”. that He is eternal into the past – as in John 17:5, demonstrates this.
The promise of Genesis 15:18 is not the Nile, but the Wadi El Arish ( a river valley that only fills up during rainy seasons), which was the border of Gaza, and extends to a point (Tiphsah, on Euphrates river, which was fulfilled under Solomon’s reign in 1 Kings 4:20-21 – the border of Egypt is where the Wadi El Arish is. The promise of Genesis 15:18 was fulfilled under Solomon in 1 Kings 4:20-21.
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I agree with scholar Richard Bauckham on Mark 10 and Matthew 19 – Jesus is essentially saying, “If you recognize that I am good, and only God is good, then you should realize that I am God.” Bauckham calls it “a wonderful double entendre”
I dealt with this issue a long time ago (see link to earlier article refuting Paul from 2012); fully refuted Paul Williams many times on Mark 10, etc.
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2017/01/05/one-of-a-muslims-favorite-scholars-refutes-islamic-mis-use-of-mark-1018/
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj2kOG968XWAhUISBQKHRMjCc8QjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F505599495644258569%2F&psig=AFQjCNG6CZFIOtbpgb7ViqMVUAaDCyJhaA&ust=1506615121502896
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“Generated” has nothing to do with word Eternal unless you’ve invented a new language to justify this nonsense.
Ken said
“( a river valley that only fills up during rainy seasons), which was the border of Gaza, and extends to a point (Tiphsah, on Euphrates river, which was fulfilled under Solomon’s reign in 1 Kings 4:20-21 – the border of Egypt is where the Wadi El Arish is. The promise of Genesis 15:18 was fulfilled under Solomon in 1 Kings 4:20-21.”
Hmmm 🙂
So the idol worshiper fulfilled that promise of God according to you?
And just by miracle “the great river, the river Euphrates” has transformed to become Tiphsah?
Wadi? it’s been transformed too ?
The word which’s used in Hebrew is nahar (nahr نهر in Arabic) does mean river, FYI.
” agree with scholar Richard Bauckham on Mark 10 and Matthew 19 – Jesus is essentially saying, “If you recognize that I am good, and only God is good, then you should realize that I am God.”
That why Matthew changed it, right?
But for sake of argument, do you really think the jewish guy got this nonsense? You keep carving on stones to get meanings suitable for the religion Paul. However, It doesn’t work.
“I don’t know what the question about Iraq and the war there has anything to do with our discussion. It is so complicated because of the nature of the 3 different cultures (Kurds in North, Sunnis in middle, and Shiites in South), the history that goes back to Ottoman Empire and British dividing it up after World War 1, and Saddam Hussein and his evil dictatorship
No one can unravel the complicated nature of it.”
The title of this passage is called (How to become the ideal hypocrite)
The answer:
Be just like christians in the west, such as David, Mike Licona, and Ken.
The “hero”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4442988.stm
Whatever, Iraqi people are “monkeys ” according to your hero’s terminology.
” 3 different cultures”
It’s not been the case, and you know it. BTW, maybe the native Americans should launch wars against the European noses! You know it’s been great different in history and culture? Can we liberate them?
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Ken Temple
September 27, 2017 • 2:52 pm
Why do you repeat the lie about “banning Muslims” ? the temporary travel restrictions are only for 6 countries, and it is TEMPORARY!
I say;
No, banning Muslims on US soil is not a lie because Donald Trump clearly said he is banning Muslims from US soil and the white evangelical Christians voted for him. I gave you my proof.
It was not temporal but the 90 days was used as a beginner and now it has ended and more restrictions on Muslims is added to the new executive order to extend the banning of Muslims.
Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslim-ban-travel-ban-donald-trump-immigration-north-korea-venezuela-iran-chad-a7965221.html
That is how things start. One will say he is going to implement a project but will start on a pilot project, then gradually extends to full intention of the project.
With regards to Robert Spencer, David Wood etc. reading from our sources and interpret it the way they wants, we can also read the Bible and interpret it the way we want. You don’t like our interpretation. So, it is disingenuous to like and support David Wood reading and interpretations of Islam due to the fact that he has not mastered classical Arabic and other Islamic modules as required.
This proves that Robert Spencer, David Wood, Nabeel Quraish etc. and their followers are idiots. Why? They don’t know anyone can also read the Bible and interpret it the way he wants like the Dutch experiment. Dr. James White through his experience in exchanging these with Muslims is wise to say lets stick on who God is, than this nonsense of David Wood, Robert Spencer who do not have qualification in Islam but just interpreting it the way the like.
In Arabic, when something is defined i.e. the Jews and Christians who fight you or the disbelievers who fights you, the generic name i.e. disbelievers, Jews, Christians can be used to refer to only the Jews, Christians, disbelievers who fight you but not all.
We provided the videos explaining that here.
This Christian woman(pastor) is sensible and warned her congregation not to fall into the bullshit of David Wood, Robert Spencer etc. Both Muslims and Christians including Jews, Buddhist, Hindus have used their scriptures wrongly to persecute others like happening in Burma now. Buddhist terrorist are trying to kill all Muslims in Burma.
Good woman pastor. May God Bless her and show her the right path.
Dr. John L. Esposito of Georgetown university, who is a Christians and an Islamic scholar. He know classical Arabic anyway.
Dr. Craig Considine who debated with Nabeel and told him to stop the nonsense of David Wood, Robert Spencer. Dr. Considine is a Christians and an Islamic scholar who knows classical Arabic and asked Nabeel to stop the nonsense of quoting Quran out of order.
Dr. White and many more Christians has advised the Islamphobes to stop the nonsense and bullshit of David Wood, Robert Spencer etc.
All the above scholars in both Islam and Christianity which Robert and David are not are saying David Wood and Robert Spencer are idiots.
Thanks.
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I agree with Dr. White.
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Ken Temple
Common American woman who knows the white evangelical Christians hate the Jews, Catholics, Latinos, blacks and now Muslims. To them, everyone is a problem except them alone and that’s why they voted for Donald Trump to deal with anyone else except the white evangelical Christians who he will never ever touch.
He is now insulting black NFL players for their freedom of expression but supported the whites who matched against immigration.
Sometime ago, it was the Jews who were the problem to this white evangelical Christians. The Jews managed to free themselves and now they are bed fellows with them. They picked the Catholics and Mormons as no good. They also managed to free themselves. They picked the Blacks and Latinos. They also managed to free themselves. Now, the pick is no Muslims. Muslims this, Muslims that, forgeting the voted for war in the Muslim lands to spread their religion and cause vacuum and isis.
I hope and pray Muslims will also free themselves soon from this white evangelical Christians who persecuted Catholic Christians.
We do not forget when a ship load of Jews running from Europe’s persecution to USA and was returned back to Europe for some of them to die in holocaust. Now some of them(few) have teemed up with the Zionist Christians against Muslims.
Thanks.
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Wrong.
No war by the church – John 18:36; Matthew 26:52; Ephesians 6:10-18
We love all cultures and peoples – Colossians 3:9-11; Ephesians 2:11-22; Galatians 3:28; Revelation 5:9; 7:9
Psalm 67; 96:3
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Ken Temple
September 27, 2017 • 8:10 pm
Wrong.
No war by the church – John 18:36; Matthew 26:52; Ephesians 6:10-18
We love all cultures and peoples – Colossians 3:9-11; Ephesians 2:11-22; Galatians 3:28; Revelation 5:9; 7:9
Psalm 67; 96:3
I say;
-Jesus started war by destroying tables and chairs that does not belong to him. His very angry(Jesus has sinfulness according Ken, not me).
-Those Arians, Ebionites etc. who do not believe in Trinity were either killed persecuted or exiled and all this is in the early history of Christianity.
-Then comes the Church in Europe persecuting everyone including Christians who do not believe in other sect of Christianity, until the 30 years war stopped them(Christians) to bring freedom of religion.
Proof:
————
Along with the religious consequences of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation came deep and lasting political changes. Northern Europe’s new religious and political freedoms came at a great cost, with decades of rebellions, wars and bloody persecutions. The Thirty Years’ War alone may have cost Germany 40 percent of its population.
Source: http://www.history.com/topics/reformation
————
To say no war by Church is belittling your Reverend status because it was taught at seminary.
-Then came the Crusaders crushing the Jews and later crushing Jews, Muslims and the Copts, till the Muslims overpowered them(Christians) and allowed anyone including Christians to worship freely.
-Later the Christians overpowered Muslims and persecuted Muslims, Jews and Copts and the Jews moved to Muslim majority lands and settle their peacefully and prospered. This history cannot be wiped. Even hardcore Zionist Jews always thanks Muslims for saving them from Christian extermination.
-The USA disallow Jewish ship of refugees entry to the USA like how they voted for Trump to specifically disallow Muslim refugees and allow Christian refugees in. Most of the Jews died in holocaust.
-In USA, the white evangelical Christians persecuted Jews, blacks, Catholics, Mormons and now Muslims.
So, the problem is Christianity from the beginning.
Thanks.
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There was no war by Christians for the first 5 centuries.
The Crusades was a Roman Catholic thing. (1095-1299) I disagree with their theology and a lot of the atrocities that they committed, but some of it was just self-defense after centuries of Islam attacking first – the Arabs in the 630s into 800s; and then the Seljuk Turks in the 900s and 1000s. (and then the Ottomans after the Crusades- all unjust conquering – fall of Constantinople in 1453) But Islam attacked first in the 600s under Omar, it was unjust. He and other Caliphs used Surah 9:28-30 and other verses to justify their evil wars against Byzantine and Persia. They had no right to do that. So, in a sense the Crusades was a self-defense, that was a slow response to all the centuries of the unjust Islamic wars – from the 636 AD to the 1000s AD.
Ebionites were not persecuted or killed, etc. There is not much evidence for them. They were a very small group mentioned in the late 4th and 5th centuries. The first mention of them is by Eusebius and Epiphanius in the later 300s and early 400s. A lot of their writings were based on false wrtings of the 2nd and 3rd centuries called the Pseudo-Clementine literature.
Islam attacked first in the 600s under Omar, so no, hte problem is with Islam from the beginning.
The main information on the Ebionites comes from Epiphanius of Salamis: (320-403 AD)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphanius_of_Salamis
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“No war by the church”
Except that most wars on this globe made by christians or by people whom christians praise and elect.
What you’ve said is really meaning less in light the reality of your history, reality of today, and even in the future.
The prophet ﷺ has already told us that there will be a final war between christians and muslims as a sign that the end of time is near, which will take place in Syria. As you can see the christians are the ones who will come to fight not muslims. The prophecy tells us that christians will be defeated though the loses in muslim’s side will be great.
To refresh your memory
================
“Islam attacked first in the 600s under Omar, so no, hte problem is with Islam from the beginning.”
Boring!
Why can’y you see it as a fulfillment of Genesis 15:18 or Daniel 2, which you cannot deny as reality?
Islam has brought people to God of Abraham, and the face of darkness got demolished by the light of Islam, especially when Islam has cleaned he christian dumb in Almasjid Al Aqsa.
Also again and again, the Roman pagan dictatorship had been praised by your false prophet paul, and he didn’t say a word about its empire. Why don’t you just admit that you’ve a problem with the law of God?
Then isn’t this what most christians wait? 🙂
“They will join forces to swoop down on Philistia to the west. Together they will attack and plunder the nations to the east. They will occupy the lands of Edom and Moab, and Ammon will obey them.” Isaiah
You are eager for a day when you plunder and occupy.
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Because Genesis 15:18 was fulfilled in 1 Kings 4:20-21 and I Kings 8:65 (brook of Egypt); and Daniel 2 is about Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. (and then Jesus’ is the one who crushes all kingdoms by His spiritual authority and drawing some from all the nations to Himself. Rev. 5:9; 7:9; John 6:44; 12:32) The crushing of the kingdom of Israel also happened in Matthew 21:33-46 (note verse 44 alludes to Daniel 2:44, but is also refers to Christ’s kingdom in heaven and victory over people’s lives with spiritual re-birth and character.)
“Christian dumb” in Almasjid Al Aqsa – what is that?
I have no problem with God’s law.
The law is holy, good, and righteous” – Romans 7:12
and
see I Tim. 1:8-11
The law is good when used properly
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Ken said:
“Because Genesis 15:18 was fulfilled in 1 Kings 4:20-21 and I Kings 8:65 (brook of Egypt);”
Really? Have you not read some of jewish commentary? Or some christian interpretations?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Israel-land.html
This is from the book (the land of christ)
Moreover, for you how an idol worshiper was the fulfillment of that promise? 🙂
“Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. (and then Jesus’ is the one who crushes all kingdoms by His spiritual authority and drawing some from all the nations to Himself”
So that why christians have developed the theory of coming Rome? 🙂
You cannot deny the history, Ken.
Christians and Jews both were waiting that kingdom in time of Rome, yet when it’s been fulfilled by Islam, they turned back disbelieving.
“How wretched is that for which they sold themselves – that they would disbelieve in what Allah has revealed through [their] outrage that Allah would send down His favor upon whom He wills from among His servants. So they returned having [earned] wrath upon wrath. And for the disbelievers is a humiliating punishment.” QT
In fact, christians at that time used to throw the city’s trash in the holy place( i.e. Almasjid Al Aqsa) till Islam came & turned it back for worshiping Allah(sw), God of Abraham.
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Problem is the King came during the Roman Empire days. That is why Jesus said, “Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand” = because the King Himself was there and came to earth. Al Messiah = the anointed King, fulfiller of all the prophesies.
You are just wrong about Genesis 15:18 and Daniel 2 and that crazy map.
The OT clearly shows that the land promises were fulfilled in 1 Kings 4:20-21 and 8:56 and the book of Joshua also says this, but the Canaanites and others came back in the book of Judges after being driven out.
The Islamic Empire was an unjust Empire that subjugated the Copts and other Christians and pushed them to inward communities of Dhimmi second class status and wore them down over the centuries by the Jiziye and other evil Omar rules.
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The two maps I gave you earlier in the thread are the right ones on the Promised land. Christian Zionism is wrong. There is no more Biblical Theocratic Israel.
The King – Jesus Al Masih is ruling right now on His throne with the Father (Revelation 5; Psalm 47:8; Psalm 110; I Corinthians 15; Hebrews 1:3) and calls you to repent and come to Him and submit to Him.
Acts 17:30-31
you need His mediation – Hebrews 7:25; Romans 8:31-34; I John 2:1-2
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Oh, you meant dump, not dumb.
😉
Because the resurrection (Church of the Holy Seplechre was built around the hill of the empty tomb) was much greater than any kind of temple, which God destroyed in 70 AD, using the Romans to judge and destroy.
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/empty-tomb/
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”
The King – Jesus Al Masih is ruling right now on His throne with the Father (Revelation 5; Psalm 47:8; Psalm 110; I Corinthians 15; Hebrews 1:3) and calls you to repent and come to Him and submit to Him.
Acts 17:30-31″
i challenge your man-god to take on death a second time, lets see if he can “defeat” death.
at the moment we see DEATH defeating every christian
death is the ruler of christians and yhwh
if there was a world champion and he was put into a coma, would you say “he came out of the coma after a few days, he is still world champion”
?
or would u say he is no longer world champion?
in the same way, yhwh is no longer “world champion”
the new WORLD champion is DEATH
the RULER and destroyer of yhwh
you new god is DEATH .
”
you need His mediation – Hebrews 7:25; Romans 8:31-34; I John 2:1-2″
how can yhwh mediate between itself and ITSELF?
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the second coming will be bad for you.
2 Thessalonians 1:3-10; Revelation 19-20
The Son mediates between the Father and the believers, having already quenched the wrath and satisfied the justice of God the Father against sin for all believers of all history. You need to repent and trust Him and seek refuge in His mediation. شفیع
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You just cannot stop crying once we corner you, can you? In fact, you cannot stop being a hypocrite.
It’s really disturbing how hypocrite you are.
If we both presented our case for the fulfillment of Daniel 2 to a sincere person, what do you you think he’d choose for an accurate and clear fulfillment to the prophecy if we both agree that the 4 kingdoms are Babylon, Persia, Greek, Divided Rome?
Roman empire had not been divided yet in time of Jesus even let alone to crush those kingdoms
” It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness,” ?:) I almost swear by Allah that you’re just in denial !
Islam is the only thing which has crushed the heritage and the chain of paganism in that area.
Again, that the kingdom of God will be after Rome is not muslim interpretation. It’s been the interpretation of jews and christians both till Islam came , then they changed their minds by developing new interpretations just in out of arrogance and rejecting the clear proof.
Genesis, I’m still waiting where the river of Egypt is ? The great river Euphrates? Read some jewish commentaries. Then why would God fulfill that promise for an idol worshiper?
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I already answered all of that with the previous maps. Look up all those verses about the brook of Egypt, the border of Egypt = Wadi El Arish, in Gaza. I Kings 4:20-21 and 1 Kings 8:65
Jesus crushed the physical evil dictator empires by His Spiritual light and truth and love and with the power of the Holy Spirit for true believers to love enemies and live holy and respond rightly.
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Daniel 2:44 “in the days of those kings” – when Jesus appeared – “the Kingdom of God is here; because the King Himself is here on earth.
Daniel 2:45 – “a stone was cut out of the mountains without hands” = a spiritual kingdom; Jesus is the rock, the great stone, that crushes sin and rebellion and wins people without war or force or Jiziye or Dhimmi unjust oppression.
“My Kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36
Matthew 21:42-46
The stone which the builders rejected . . .
42 Jesus *said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures,
‘The stone which the builders rejected,
This became the chief corner stone;
This came about from the Lord,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.
44 And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces [ ie, submits, repents, believes]; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust.”
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them. 46 When they sought to seize Him, they feared the people, because they considered Him to be a prophet.
Matthew 21:42-46
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You keep answering me with nonsense and hypocrisy that you cannot get rid of obviously !
Genesis 15:18 & Daniel 2 go smoothly with Islam side by side.
However, I cannot convince a brain understanding 3=1 except that Allah who controls hearts can guide you to his mercy and his light.
Paslm 118:18
“The LORD has disciplined me severely, but he has not given me over to death.”
You don’t accept this verse! Hmmmm let me guess, you’ve invented a new language to read this verse? Right?
You never cease to amaze me, christians
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That man was an enemy for Allaah (sw) & his messenger pbuh till last moment.
“And the Day the wrongdoer will bite on his hands [in regret] he will say, “Oh, I wish I had taken with the Messenger a way.
Oh, woe to me! I wish I had not taken that one as a friend.
He led me away from the remembrance after it had come to me. And ever is Satan, to man, a deserter.” QT .
May Allaah(sw) protect us from that fate. May Allaah(sw) let us die in Islam.
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Brother the Prophet attended a Jewish funeral out of respect. We should not say such things as this is not the moment to be talking about his stance against Islam. Leave it be.
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No he did not.
That man was not just a disbeliver. He was an enemy, and he used to lie.
Be aware of what you’re doing right now.
We have been inviting people to Islam for this very moment. That man chose his way which leads to the Hell fire. You have to bear the true testimony about anyone.
I wish he died in Islam, but he chosecto be a mushrik.
============
https://islamqa.info/en/224598
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I know what you mean and I am not saying I don’t bear true testimony.
I said at the beginning:
“Did not expect it would happen so fast.
Perhaps he confessed Tawheed in his last moments and Muhammad to be a Messenger from Allah the Almighty. I hope so. Allah knows best.
May his family find peace and comfort. Ameen.”
The Prophet was respectful for a Jewish funeral (as it passed by him) by standing up.
“Qais ibn Sa’d reported: A funeral passed by the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, and he stood up. It was said to him, “It is a Jew.” The Prophet said, “Was he not a soul?” (Ṣaḥiḥ al-Bukhari 1250)
Yes he used to lie. But at least he apologized at the end. I know that still makes him a mushrik but I’m just saying that’s not what the prophet would have done. Allah knows best.
PS. I don’t mean disrespect brother.
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You know the big difference between (a Jewish funeral as it passed by him) & (Prophet attended a Jewish funeral), don’t you?
That man – as we know so far- has been an enemy for Allaah(sw) & his messengers.
He used to averted [people] from the path of Allah by lies.
Please keep that in your mind.
When the verdict of Allaah(sw) comes, just walk and don’t look back.
That what the prophet Shu’ayb pbuh said to his people when the punishment came to therm
“And he turned away from them and said, “O my people, I had certainly conveyed to you the messages of my Lord and advised you, so how could I grieve for a disbelieving people?” QT.
Allaa(sw) said to the prophet pbuh
“Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good [like one rightly guided]? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do.” QT.
I know it’s an emotional thing, but that why we have been inviting people to Islam. It’s not about winning an argument. No!
It’s all about for them to be saved in “The Day when there will not benefit [anyone] wealth or children. But only one who comes to Allah with a sound heart. And Paradise will be brought near [that Day] to the righteous. And Hellfire will be brought forth for the deviators, And it will be said to them, “Where are those you used to worship. Other than Allah ? Can they help you or help themselves?. So they will be overturned into Hellfire, they and the deviators. And the soldiers of Iblees, all together. They will say while they dispute therein, By Allah, we were indeed in manifest error. When we equated you with the Lord of the worlds. And no one misguided us except the criminals. So now we have no intercessors. And not a devoted friend. Then if we only had a return [to the world] and could be of the believers. Indeed in that is a sign, but most of them were not to be believers. And indeed, your Lord – He is the Exalted in Might, the Merciful.” QT
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Nabeel Qureshi’s friendship with David Wood comes to mind when reading this part “Oh, woe to me! I wish I had not taken that one as a friend”.
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Well If David Wood passed away I wouldn’t feel ANY remorse.
God no!
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I wish I he had been guided to Islam and repent before his last breath Allahu’alim, my thoughts to his wife, daughters and family
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Shalom! If he died as a convinced Trinitarian, firmly believing that Jesus was Allah, where is he now? What is the Islamic Orthodox position on this? And from an Islamic position, does a Christian realize the reality of Jesus as he approaches death i.e that Jesus is not God? And should his death not be wake up call for all parties regarding the objective truth of the Trinity?
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From an Islamic position he is a mushrik and mushriks get the Eternal Flame as punishment.
Q 5:72 says: They do blaspheme who say: “Allah is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
Q 5:17 says: In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every – one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.”
Q 5:75 says: Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
Q 9:30-31 says: The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
I assume you are Jewish. You might have come across Q 9:30 and wondered ‘I don’t believe Ezra was the Son of God’. But this is only to those who made such claims in the past. Thank the Lord Almighty that we don’t have Jews today who say that. But only monotheists.
So the above verses make it clear that calling Jesus God or the Son of God (how it can be both while not being an logical fallacy is beyond me) is absolute blasphemy and Allah curses such people.
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” Indeed, those who disbelieved and averted [people] from the path of Allah and then died while they were disbelievers – never will Allah forgive them” QT 47:34
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Watch from 1:16:50 where Islam rejects the Trinity explicitly.
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“mushriks get the Eternal Flame as punishment.”
That may be true if God knows that the if the person in question lived forever, then he/she would have continued to compromise submission to God with another entity forever.
Only God who brought the person into reality can know that.
Moreover, there are a few verses in the Qur’an that suggest that hell might not be eternal, such as the end of Surah 11. Only God knows.
Regardless though, we ought to strive to stay away from Hell for any moment of time for it is an extemely painful place where justice is meted out completely with God knowing how much an evil person would have sinned if he/she had more and more power.
May God protect us from violating God’s sanctity by compromising his unity, from saying untruths, and from harming others.
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Sad to hear. Yes, we are all from God and we will all return to God.
He died at a young age….looking at a study as described below, he developed a disease that is quite rare for someone his age.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4019373/
only about 1% of cases occurred between ages of 20 to 34.
“The incidence rate of GC rises progressively with age. Of the cases diagnosed between 2005 and 2009 in the United States, approximately 1% of cases occurred between the ages of 20 and 34 years, whereas 29% occurred between 75 and 84 years (25). During this period, the median age at diagnosis of GC was 70 years (25).”
And the cases in general are not that common….
Less than 15 per 100,000 in the UK (about less than 1 per 6,500 people).
So 1% of (1 per 6,500) means 1 per 650,000 people of his age would get gastric cancer.
I hope that he accepted the One-ness of God before he died but I am sad that there was no video to demonstrate that.
I saw a couple of the videos that Nabeel sent from his hospital bed.
It brings some hope that he was referring to God only as God and that he spoke of christians in the 3rd person as if making himself speaking outside of a specific religion…
In the video below, he was saying that we should speak from lens of love whether speaking to “Hindus, Jews, Muslims, or Christians.”
I think he would refer to Jesus as his Lord, etc. in previous videos. So it is nice that he decided not to do that in the most important videos of his life.
But I agree with Abdullah1423 that we should pray to Allah that we not take wrong people as friends, that we strive to seek and always say the truth whether it is convenient or not, and that we seek to never compromise the unity and integrity of Allah.
I will not judge him. In the final analysis, only Allah can judge.
May God give solace to his family.
And may this be a reminder that each of us will die….that is absolutely certain.
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Sad.
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I re-read Abdullah1423’s comments. It is indeed sad the path that Nabeel took.
He not only left Islam but actively spoke against it and spoke against it at times apparently in a less than honest way. The review of Nabeel’s life and work from an Islamic perspective that Paul said would come in due course would be helpful for us all. I hope that review includes all the errors that Nabeel made publicly regarding Islam.
Again God knows his heart and I ardently hope that he became regretful and returned to Tawhid and away from Trinity before the approaches of death.
As mentioned in the previous post, there is a little hope given in that the language in the two videos I saw did not contain references to Jesus or to the Trinity.
I must hope that if I am to want the best for others just like I want the best for myself….otherwise I am selfish which is against Islam. Of course I trust Allah who is the most merciful when appropriate but also fully just.
———————————————————–
As Muslims, we are commanded by God to use our reason and evidence in a rigorous way.
Thus, we cannot infer from the rare death of any person of a particular religion that religion X is correct or incorrect.
However, it is remarkable from looking at the path that Nabeel took, it was a very rare path….there are Muslims who leave Islam for all practical purposes but usually they do not become Christians and very rarely do they become active in preaching against Islam publicly.
As Muslims, we believe that every outcome occurs from the wisdom of God.
Nabeel took that very rare path and as explained above, the disease he suddenly was diagnosed with at his age of 34 was also very rare for that age….1 in 650,000.
If one sees the graph at
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/statistics-by-cancer-type/stomach-cancer/incidence#heading-One
then one can readily see how very rare it is for someone aged 34 to get this disease which Nabeel in one of his videos describes as a scary disease.
At age of 34, the incidence rate appears to be virtually zero. So, very rare indeed.
Again, we cannot make any definitive inference from this, but I hope that attackers of Islam (the religion of willful submission to One God without compromising God’s unity and living out a life just and kind to others with a miraculous book–The Qur’an that confirms the truths that are in the previous revelations from God) reflect on how rare this outcome is.
May God guide us all to be open-minded and open-hearted to logic, to evidence….ALL the evidence, to goodness, to the truth.
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Are you seriously trying to say that Nabeel got cancer because he became a Christian and that is rare so God decided to give him a rare disease?
If so, thats pretty messed up dude
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Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but he never actually left Islām; he was a member of the Ahmadi religion before becoming Christian. Leaving one silly story for another isn’t so rare is it?
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“Are you seriously trying to say that Nabeel got cancer because he became a Christian and that is rare so God decided to give him a rare disease?”
I clearly, explicitly, and repetitively mentioned that to make that inference in a definitive way is not correct.
However, it should give pause to those who attack Islam.
Getting cancer is not rare.
But getting that particular type of cancer at that particular young age is very, very rare.
If you choose to not be reflective on that, that is your choice.
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Although we cannot assume this very rare occurrence of cancer in his young age to be definitely because of the religious life choices Nabeel’s took and because of him deciding to publically spread false things on Islam, it can and should be a sign to all.
A brother above mentioned that Nabeel eventually apologized. But I assume he did not apologize for all the times and Nabeel should have disavowed his books and his talks which he did not do.
God knows best.
I hope he repented in his latter time and I wish the best for his family.
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There’s no reason to think that Nabeel having cancer was somehow an act of God because he became a Christian hence why I have not reflected on it anymore than I think because I’m an agnostic is the reason why i stubbed my toe on the coffee table yesterday. Should I consider that an act of God as well?
One aught not speculate on such matters without proof as that is simply conjecture and the implications alone paint a particularly nasty view of God as a petty and vindictive to say the least. Not to say the effect such baseless assertions might have on those who were close to Nabeel such as his young family and parents.
Look i get it, Nabeel said some bad stuff about Islam and some people are pissed that he said them we don’t have to sweep them under the rug because he has passed away and pretend that never happened (which I’m sure will be raised during Pauls next post that he promised) but we need to remember that beyond all the years of bitching Nabeel was a real human being not some thing to pontificate about.
In short, show some respect. Reflect on that.
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Patrobin,
The Qur’an tells us in multiple places to learn lessons of what happened to the past peoples destroyed for their persistent disobedience to God, to truth, to goodness.
We should develop a sensitivity to take lessons.
I am not asserting anything nor am I suggesting anything to his close family members. I doubt they are seeing this website, despite how good that I think it is.
I am showing respect to him as I hope he had repented.
It pains me to insinuate anything negative about any soul. But as Abdullah1423 pointed out, we have to overcome our emotions.
If we are happy at the misfortune of others, then this is from a darkness in our hearts and a deficiency of compassion.
But we cannot take the other extreme of neglecting to notice a possible sign.
We need to take lesson from his life. We have a side that can guide us and a side that can misguide us.
Anyone can have temptations….to fit in the dominant culture….to become a celebrity….to even lie to achieve it…we must resist….we must strive if we care for ourselves.
We are all at risk until we die.
If you do not want to take a lesson from it, that’s your business. But I will take lesson from it and we should not shy away from telling others to take lesson from this.
Not that we know definitely why he had this cancer at such an early age which is very rare, but we need to be cautious and be sensitive for all signs….and this can indeed be a sign that God is sending us.
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This post can be an instructive read to those wanting to be sensitive to potential lessons
https://bloggingtheology.net/2017/01/21/on-shk-ahmed-deedat-controversy-in-nabeel-qureshis-latest-book/
An excerpt in brackets is below and the quotes are from Nabeel’s book….
[In chapter 15 of No God but One: Allah or Jesus? Dr Nabeel Qureshi writes distastefully about Shk. Ahmed Deedat:
…”In 1996, at the height of his career, Deedat suffered a severe stroke. Among other neurological deficiencies, Deedat was no longer able to speak, and he remained bedridden until his passing in 2005. Some suggested that God had punished him for his words, and other rumours spread that Deedat repudiated Islam just before his passing. Within the Islamic world both these suggestions are resolutely dismissed. Deedat’s fame continues to grow, even after his death, into legendary status.”
The problem here is Nabeel lists 3 inflammatory incidents in the career of Shk. Deedat and then he veers off to talk about how he died. OK, not such a big problem…yet. The problem is, straight after this he inexplicably throws in a statement informing the reader what “some” people suggested after his death. He leaves it open ended – he doesn’t opine on what these “some” people suggested so we don’t know whether he thinks there could be truth in what these “some” or “other” people suggested. He doesn’t say who these “some” people are so we don’t know whether he’s talking about internet trolls or serious theologians and scholars.
As a professional author one suspects the editing and proof-reading assistance Dr Nabeel Qureshi gets is considerable and the fact he is an experienced author one is left aghast at how this statement wound up in there – it’s almost like a deliberate ploy to sow seeds into the mind of the reader. Seeds suggesting that these “some” people may be right!….]
——————————————————-
This is something that Nabeel did not just say publicly at a conference but he deliberately wrote that in a book which is far worse.
For a very elderly person to have a severe stroke that affects their speech is not rare. But the cancer that Nabeel had is very rare at that age. For someone at his age, the incidence of that cancer is virtually zero as depicted in that medical graph.
It pains me to point all this out. I am not saying we know why this happened to him. There are always many variables involved and we can never be certain. Islam is grounded in logic, rationality, truth, goodness, evidence, all the evidence, and compassion. And Islam is not grounded in anything that is not certain.
However, we should take lesson from uncertain explanations if can remind us to be conscientious to God and to wary that Satan is always trying to misguide us and to be wary that our temptations and weakness can at any time make us slip….God tells us in many places in the Qur’an to take lessons from what we observe in the world, both in nature and what happens to people or what happens to individuals.
I hope consolation for this family. And I don’t intend to define his whole life. I never met him. Only God knows him in entirety.
But he was misguided and he was confidently preaching to others a creed of misguidance that would be harmful to their afterlife—Trinity, vicarious atonement of sins, God having a son.
We need to not forget that this life is a test for each of us, every day, every night. And we need to be heedful of all the lessons or potential lessons so we can to cling to goodness, to logic, to rationality, to evidence, to all the evidence.
Peace
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It is true that he was Ahmadi, which is a very tiny, tiny sect that many Muslims consider to be not Islam but Ahmadis consider themselves to be Muslims.
Unfortunately, Nabeel would repeatedly over years hide that glaring fact in his book or books and talks so as to make himself appear as a mainstream Muslim converting to Christianity so as to become a celebrity among evangelicals who attack Islam.
It is true that there are unfounded claims in Ahmadi regarding their founder and it is true that Nabeel left that to the unfounded and illogical claims of Trinitarian theology.
I hope he repented in his private time towards the very end of his life.
May we all strive to be always honest and follow what is logical, based on evidence, and what is moral. Ameen.
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Ameen. And we pray. Ya Allah, let us all die as Muslims. Ameen thummah Ameen.
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He moved from the religion of Mirza to the religion of Paul. From a false prophet to another one.
Again, that sect has nothing to do with Islam, and Nabeel used to lie a lot about this matter even after he has been diagnosed with cancer. After all, Nabeel’s best friend is David, and we know how wicked David is.
Nabeel died as Kafir( a disbeliver). He used to worship a human being with God.
There are many lessons we can derive from Nabeel’s story.
But for now, we must thank Allaah(sw) for He has guided us to Islam. It’s the most joyful grace that we have. Whatever the difficult situation we are in, we must remember that we’re muslims. Thank Allaah(sw) for this blessing.
This life is very short. If all the world is against you which is something we really experience as muslims, remember that this life is gonna end.
The real life is the next one.
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O you who believe fear Allah as He should be feared and die not except in the state of Islam” (al-Imran 3:102)
I respect the humanity in everyone, and I sincerely feel sorrow and sadness for anyone who suffers a long and painful death like Qureshi.
HOWEVER, I cannot forget the fact that Qureshi actively strived against Islam, spreading lies and disinformation. Although I am bitter about that fact, I will leave the judgment for Allah alone.
All of the life work of Nabeel Qureishi against Islam, is really nothing more than a drop in the bucket when compared to the long line of people throughout history who have endeavored to slander, malign, smear, attack, and besmirch the character and legacy of our beloved Prophet (sws), and who have tried spread untruths, misunderstanding, confusion, in order to destroy Islam.
Ultimately, all such enemies of Islam and their efforts have proven to have been failures, and have been recognized as complete falsehoods and lies by those who are willing and able to see the truth of the matter.
Islam still remains standing triumphantly, and will continue onwards into the future. Just as it always has, and it will continue to grow more, and more, with each passing year.
We who are Muslims know the truth of the matter, and that is why we “hold tight to the rope of Allah” no matter what trials or tribulations we face. We never give up on the deen! That is the sign of the true believing Muslim.
The truth cannot be undone by falsehood.
And say: “The truth has now come [to light], and falsehood has withered away: for, behold, all falsehood is bound to wither away!” – 17:81
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” verse 4:171 more fully which states that Jesus was no more than a messenger of Allah and his “word bestowed upon” (Kalimatullah al-qahaa) Mary.”
Incoherent use of the word “word”. No wonder you put the phrase in quotation marks. You know it doesn’t make sense.
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did you know that in genesis it is not yhwh walking the earth but his VOICE/sounds taking a walk
his sounds are heard walking
“vayishmu (and they heard) et-qol (the voice of) YHWH Elohim (God) mit’halekh (going/walking) ba’gen (in the garden).”
voice
vɔɪs/Submit
noun
1.
the sound produced in a person’s larynx and uttered through the mouth, as speech or song.
“Meg raised her voice”
what are sounds doing walking in the garden? do you see coherence in this?
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Mr Healthcliff,
Very nice comments on Surah 112.
Alhamdulillilah
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those were written by ali ataie.
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if there was a mental christian who keeps coming back and asking the same question it would be kev/joel/graham. it seems clear the guy is suffering from mental issues. why would you repeat the same thing which you were destroyed on in the past?
quote :
Quran’ic Exegesis of al-Ikhlas as a Corrective of Trinitarian Theo-Christology
(v. 1) As stated earlier, the word Allah is the proper Name of God that shares an etymology with the Hebrew (in pluralis majestatis) Elohim (אֱלֹהִים), probably from the root a-li-ha (ألِهَ) meaning “to go to and fro in fear and perplexity” or from aleph-waw-lamed (אול), meaning “strength and power” and related to the Arabic Form II awwala (أول), “to interpret” or “find the origin of.” Ash’arite theologians offer the following brief definition of Allah:
“A proper name denoting the Essence (which is) the Necessary Existent; the one deserving of all perfection and transcendent above all deficiencies” (علم على ذات الواجب الوجود، المستحق لجميع الكمالات المتنزه عن جميع النقاءص).
The Qur’an is confirming in principle that the God of Muhammad is the same God of the biblical prophets, including Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. The word Ahad (أحد) is taken by Suyuti as either a permutative (بدل) or a second predicate (خبر ثان), with Huwa as subject and the Exalted Expression (لفظ الجلالة), i.e. Allah, as first predicate. Tantawi says that the Exalted Expression as predicate indicates the occasion of the surah’s Revelation (سبب النزول) in which a group of Jews approached the Prophet asking about the identity of his God –
“Who is He (Huwa)?” This is described in detail by al-Wahidi. As discussed in chapter two, the pronoun Huwa, spelled ha-waw and meaning “He (is),” is close to the meaning of the enigmatic tetragrammaton (Shem HaMeforash) spelled yod-he-waw-he (יהוה), if we consider this to be the imperfect tense of the verb hawah (הוה), meaning to “to be,” thus “He is” (yihweh), and translated as ὁ ὤν ([“I am] He who is”) in the LXX (from the 1p sing. Ehyeh [Exo. 3:14]).
According to the Mishnah, the Shem HaMeforash was only articulated in the Temple by the High Priest (HaCohen HaGadol) and was believed to be the most exalted Name of God, the actual Name of His Essence in distinction to “Allah/Elohim” which indicated His Essence.
Thus Huwa, or Hahut (هاهوت) according to Ibn al-’Arabi, is believed to be al-Ism al-’Azam (الإسم الأعظم), the very Name of God’s Essence according to al-Razi. To put it in Philonic terms, Allah (الله)/Elohim (אֱלֹהִים) = Ho Theos (ο θεος) while Huwa (هو)/Yihweh (יהוה) = Ho On (ὁ ὤν).
The usage of Ahad as opposed to Wahid (واحد) is intended to confirm the fundamental creedal statement of the Children of Israel (بني إسرائيل), i.e. the Shema of Deut. 6:4: “Hear O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is One (Echad)” (שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָֽד); and confirmed by Christ in Mark 12:29 (ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι πρώτη ἐστίν ἄκουε Ἰσραήλ κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἡμῶν κύριος εἷς ἐστιν). Also, while wahid denotes one numerically and thus does not negate the existence of other “ones,” ahad, being also anarthrous, denotes utter uniqueness, one of a genus.
In addition, Ahad negates the henotheism of the pre-Islamic Arabs who certainly affirmed that Allah was Wahid, but also acknowledged the existence of lesser deities.
With respect to Christianity, the Qur’an repudiates the belief that God has a “Son” (ولد) in the Trinitarian sense by stating that “Allah is only One (واحد) God” (Q 4:171.5). Thus while Allah is numerically one (واحد), the term wahid also denotes His “internal oneness,” i.e. He is only one person (hypostasis; Arab. nafs; Heb. nefesh); there is no multiplicity in the godhead and He shares His Essence with no one and nothing else.
This is the heart of the Qur’an’s critique of Trinitarianism. There are not multiple hypostatic (personal) pre-eternals; the attributes (sifat) of God are not separate and distinct hypostatic entities. The usage of Ahad in this ayah (112:1), however, denotes God’s “external oneness” thus not allowing any creature to be the incarnation of that indivisible Essence (ousia) since He is transcendent of space, time, and materiality, contra both Incarnational Modalism (Monarchism) and Trinitarianism. In this vein, Hosea (11:9) says: “Indeed I am God and not man” (כִּי אֵל אָֽנֹכִי וְלֹא־אִישׁ).
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“Has anyone else ever been called “the Word of God” کلمه الله and “a spirit from Him” ? (points to His essence – ذات و جوهر
روح من الله
The verse has a mixture of truth and mixed with falsehoods. (Surah 4:171)”
if we accepted your filthy interpretation, then
the “haa” which is conveyed is in the feminine . was jesus a girl?
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One less Trinitarian in the world is always a good thing.
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One less Trinitarian in this world is always a good thing.
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sid verifies the truth of islam
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time line 14:00
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Ken Temple
September 19, 2017 • 8:48 pm
why not? Because the words of Scripture are limited to “Father” and “Son” (and the Holy Spirit” ( Matthew 28:29; 2 Cor. 13:14)
I say;
You used Trinity, hypostasis, 3 persons 1 God, eternal generation etc. which are not in the Bible to refer to the Almighty God, and you are now advising us to limit ourselves to the words in the Bible. Double standards.
Ok. Lets limit ourselves to what is written in the Bible.
Jesus in the Bible clearly said;
John 17:3
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sen
The only true God is the Father alone and Jesus is not the only true God but he was sent by the only true God who is not Jesus Christ. So Jesus is not the only true God bur someone else and that person said He is the only one God and no one else.
All the above is Biblical and clearly stated by God. So, Jesus is not God according to Jesus himself. What do you want again?
I will visit you to have good food, Allah willing. You and Dr. James White are not that white racist evangelical Christians who hate Muslims and immigrants.
Thanks.
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You used Trinity, hypostasis, 3 persons 1 God, eternal generation etc. which are not in the Bible to refer to the Almighty God, and you are now advising us to limit ourselves to the words in the Bible. Double standards.
So, are you willing to say that all of the OT and the New Testament is God’s word?
Will you admit that John 1:1-5 teaches that Jesus is the Word کلمه from all eternity past? and that it says He is life and light ? حیات و نور (Hayat and Noor) = only God is light and life.
You see why the very words of Scripture lead to the Deity of Christ?
Those extra terms (Trinitas Unitas, hypostasis, eternal generation) are theological terms that explain all the texts, putting them all together in a way that does not compromise the truth of Monotheism, but also holds to the clear teaching of Scripture that Jesus was eternal in the past with the Father (John 1:1-5; John 17:5; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:3-12; Colossians 1:15-20; John 10:30; 8:56-58; 5:17-18; 20:28, etc.) and that He became a human (John 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8) and died for the sins of people from all nations (all NT writings, Revelation 5:9) and was resurrected from the dead (all four gospels and all the NT) and ascended to heaven and prays for the believers now. (1 John 2:1, Hebrews 7; Romans 8)
All that with John 1:14 and Philippians 2:5-8 and Matthew 28:19 and 2 Cor. 13:14 ( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ) – all of that all together forced the terms of “Trinitas unitas ( 3 in one), hypostasis (person), eternally generated ( unique Son from eternity past, monogenas), etc.
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“Intellect” –
Thanks for the kind words at the end. Truly racism in all forms is sin and wrong. God loves all the peoples and has redeemed peoples from all languages, cultures, ethnicities, tribes, nations (see Revelation 5:9; 7:9)
What is your favorite food from your own culture?
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Ken Temple
Rice and beans.
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“there is no split between Paul and James and Peter – they all agreed with each other – Galatians 2:7-9; Acts 15”
Ken is caught lying. Funny how he accuses others of lying.
Paul and James and Peter did not agree with each other. James was the leader of the Jerusalem church and basically put Paul on the spot when he learned that Paul had been preaching against the Jewish law. Paul had to take the Nazirite vow to “show” that he was not against Christians keeping the Jewish law.
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Galatians 2:7-9 and Acts 15 and Acts 18:18 says you are wrong to keep on accusing me of lying.
All Christians believe that there is perfect harmony in all the passages, along with Acts 21, if you understand the principles of 1 Corinthians 8-9, Romans 14 and Galatians 2 together in a systematic and consistent way.
Just because I don’t agree with liberal theories like F. C. Bauer, James Tabor, and Bart Ehrman – F. C. Bauer (died in 1860) was the first to come up with that theory. It is based on humanistic and anti-supernatural presuppositions. Just because I don’t agree with liberalism / atheism / skepticism/ anti-Biblical theories, does not mean I am lying.
You don’t know how to do proper da’awa, according to Surah 29:46, so you are not a good obedient Muslim, because you use ad hominemn arguments. ( like mr.Heathcliff and the other guy who keeps cursing and using dirty language.)
Your credibility is lost; because you don’t know how to argue principles in a way that is not rude or disrespectful.
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LOL, Ken whines like a little girl to distract from him failures.
You don’t know how to evangelize. You whine and accuse others of lying and when you are cornered, you break out your “nope, you’re wrong” reply.
Of course Christians will want these verses to be in harmony. To acknowledge the alternative would be to admit that your Bible has contradictions, which no brainwashed Christian would want to admit.
On the other hand, reasonable people see the contradictions. They see the Bible and see a book in chaos. James did not agree with Paul. Otherwise, he would not have asked Paul to take the Nazirite vow. Do you have an actual response or are you going to whine?
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By the way Ken, your credibility was lost a very long time ago. Most people on this blog do not hold you in very high esteem. Just thought you should know. 😉
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Paul was already voluntarily under the Nazarite vow – Acts 18:18, and the other four men were also already voluntarily under the vow (Acts 21:23). So your whole argument is bogus.
Galatians 2:7-9, Acts 15, Romans 14, I Corinthians chapters 8-9 proves that you are wrong. It is you who are whining like a baby since when you are caught using ad hominem, you cry like a baby and accuse the other person of whining.
Thanks for letting me know that most people on this blog do not hold me in very high esteem. I don’t know. I don’t know how would you would know either. But I am not important, rather, the content and message is more important.
As John the Baptist said, “I must decrease, but He (Jesus) must increase.” John 3:30
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LOL, more whining from Ken! And more lying!
There is no evidence that Paul was under a Nazirite vow in Acts 18:18. It just says he had taken a vow. That’s it. Moreover, the Nazirite vow includes more than just shaving one’s hair. Numbers 6 lays out the rules, which includes abstaining from wine. There is no evidence that Paul was under such a vow in Acts 18.
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“I also would like to declare that it is not my intention to insult Christians or make them feel bad.” at your blog, Faiz
You don’t act that way here at Williams’ blog; you accuse of whining and lying and other ad hominem methods. You have lost your credibility; and for all to see your bad witness to Allah. Allah sees you and knows your heart.
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You’re breaking my heart Ken! Do you have an actual response or are you going to continue with your sad song?
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“about 2 Kings 2:23-24 – They were young lads – rebellious teenagers – 14-18 year olds who were ruffians/ gangsters/thugs ( Na’ar נער has that range), they were rebellious teenagers who believed in pagan gods of Baal and Ashteroth worship; they were not little children.
The judgment on them was a fulfillment of Leviticus 26:21-22”
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“the second coming will be bad for you.
2 Thessalonians 1:3-10; Revelation 19-20
The Son mediates between the Father and the believers, having already quenched the wrath and satisfied the justice of God the Father against sin for all believers of all history. You need to repent and trust Him and seek refuge in His mediation. ”
ken.
the son is not the triune god
if you identify the 3 as the triune god and you refer to the triune god as 1 being, how can ONE being mediate between itself and ITSELF?
unless you believe the CENTER god is experienced by each person and each don’t experience the others PERSONS .
so you literally have 2 DIFFERENT gods in trinity .
how does yhwh mediate between itself and itself ? are you saying that jesus when mediating isn’t part of the “one divine being” ?
i am not scared of a god who gets mauled by death.
if there was someone you should be trusting that should be that which put your god to death. it took him out and it takes you christians out everyday .
yhwh is too scared to take on death again.
death still remains the undefeated in christian theology.
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“Jesus crushed the physical evil dictator empires by His Spiritual light and truth and love and with the power of the Holy Spirit for true believers to love enemies and live holy and respond rightly.”
in the past, why did jesus tell the hebrews to go and RAPE, murder and loot? what happened to that “spirtual light” ?
do you believe the LIES in acts that christian religion was RABIDLY expanding? do you know why acts is a lie? BECAUSE nobody outside of ACTS noticed the rapid growth of christianity.
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“Holy Spirit for true believers to love enemies and live holy and respond rightly.”
i can imagine the early christians praying to their god with their hands up high on a mountain. they would be truly pissed with you. you are talking gibberish while you are in your home , they were freezing and begging for redemption. they probably got koed by the persecutors and you are talking about “spiritual light”
all those christians who went up mountains and escaped had BLOOD on their minds.
they wanted VENGEANCE.
blood
rulership
PAY BACK
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“Daniel 2:45 – “a stone was cut out of the mountains without hands” = a spiritual kingdom; Jesus is the rock, the great stone, that crushes sin and rebellion and wins people without war or force or Jiziye or Dhimmi unjust oppression.”
why did jesus use a whip in the temple to crush sin? did jesus have his multi personality disorder take over him? do you sometime wonder if the nt jesus is sane?
jesus was demonstrating how to love enemies who had come from MILES away to practice torah mandated instructions.
jesus also thought he would bring the opposite of healing when he came back with his angels in the life time of the desiples.
christians were praying for a speedy return and had blood on their mind. pay back. they wanted to sit on seats. rule. and make slaves of people
those dreams got CRUSHED when islam BALLED over christianity.
what a DEFEATED god you worship
1. death finnishes him
2. then islam balled over christianity .
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