Paul of Tarsus cursed all Trinitarians in Galatians 1 as Paul of Tarsus never knew about the Trinity doctrine and never preached or believed in this doctrine. Thus for Paul of Tarsus, the Trinitarians preach a different Gospel to him, meaning they are cursed according to Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
For the Muslim, Paul of Tarsus has no authority whatsoever. Muslims don’t care who he cursed. Can Christians say the same?
Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?
Categories: Islam
Blogging Theology 
Ouch! Devastating.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Not devastating at all. see below.
LikeLike
Knockout
LikeLike
the apostle Paul cursed all Trinitarians
Yahya,
That’s a crazy accusation, seeing that the apostle Paul definitely affirmed the Trinity all throughout his writings: These verses from the text of Scripture informed the doctrine of the Trinity.
2 Corinthians 13:14
“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ (the Son), and the love of God (the Father), and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”
In Ephesians 1:3-14 the apostle Paul mentions the work of the Father in election and predestination, the work of the Son Jesus Christ in redemption, and the work of the Holy Spirit in sealing us believers as His possession.
In Ephesians 4:4-6, the apostle Paul teaches among other things, that there is One God and Father, One Lord (Jesus Christ), and one Spirit.
This teaching of the apostle Paul is in unity with the teaching of Jesus (Matthew 28:19), and Peter (1 Peter 1:2 – chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ . . . (the Son) who shed His blood on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins, etc.)
Also, in unity with Jesus’ baptism event in Matthew 3:13-17 (Jesus the incarnated Son, with the voice of the Father from heaven, and the anointing of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.)
Also, Luke 1:34-35 agrees, in the incarnation of Christ – 1. the power of the Most High (the Father), the conception by the Holy Spirit, and the holy child himself in the womb of Mary (the Son). John 1:1-5 and 1:14 are explained in terms that show that Jesus had no human father and there was no sex involved, but that God put His own nature/substance into the womb of Mary to make Jesus Christ in one person with 2 natures, fully God and fully human.
So, we have Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, all agreeing with each other and mentioning the 3 persons of the Trinity.
the apostle Paul lists the 3 persons. (2 Cor. 13:14; Ephesians 1:3-14; 4:4-6; I Cor. 12:4-6 parallel of “same Spirit”, “same Lord”, “same God”.
Other places the apostle Paul says “there is only One God”. 1 Cor. 8:6 and 1 Timothy 2:5
He taught the Deity of Christ – Philippians 2:5-8; Romans 9:5
He taught the Deity of the Spirit – 2 Corinthians 3:16-18; Romans 8:9-11
Putting them all together in a consistent way results in the doctrine of the Trinity:
One God in three persons.
J. I. Packer, Knowing God (1973). (Packer is probably the best-known living evangelical theologian, and is sometimes called “the gate-keeper of evangelicalism.”)
“Part of the revealed mystery of the Godhead is that the three persons stand in a fixed relation to each other….It is the nature of the second person of the Trinity to acknowledge the authority and submit to the good pleasure of the first. That is why He declares Himself to be the Son, and the first person to be His Father. Though co-equal with the Father in eternity, power, and glory, it is natural to Him to play the Son’s part, and find all His joy in doing His Father’s will, just as it is natural to the first person of the Trinity to plan and initiate the works of the Godhead and natural to the third person to proceed from the Father and the Son to do their joint bidding. Thus the obedience of the God-man to the Father while He was on earth was not a new relationship occasioned by the incarnation, but the continuation in time of the eternal relationship between the Son and the Father in heaven.” Knowing God (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1973), 54-55.
the Son is always the Son and in a fixed relationship to the Father as the Father. See Packer’s quote. The Son submits to the Father. That is about His role and function, not about His nature/essence/character/nature.
the doctrine of the Trinity is “One God in essence, three in person.”
LikeLike
” Putting them all together in a consistent way results in the doctrine of the Trinity”
Oh really ?!
Can you solve this equation by “putting” all things together
Timothy 2:5 & Philippians 2:5
Notice how Paul used the expression (one God).
“One God in three persons/One God in essence, three in person”
It seems you are smarter than those who wrote your bible. ( I’m not gonna say you are smarter than your god) 🙂
Paul could have easily used this expression, yet a such expression doesn’t occur in the whole of NT, and that why christians took alomst 300 years to figure out your ” putting” all things together!
LikeLiked by 3 people
“homo-ousias” ‘ομο-ουσιας (same substance/ essence) is just a short-hand defintion of John 1:1c “and the Word was God” and Philippians 2:5-8 “existing in the form of God” and Hebrews 1:3 – “the Son is the radiance of the Father’s glory and the exact representation of His nature”, along with many other verses.
LikeLike
the word is a pagan import into what was a Jewish religion.
LikeLiked by 4 people
It is a compound word from two words, homo (same) and ousia (substance, essence, nature) – how exactly is that pagan?
Why did Hebrew and the Monotheistic Jews use a plural word for God Elohim אלוהים ?
LikeLike
How can it be pagan when they were all Monotheists who studied the OT and NT and came up with the term in order to protect both Monotheism, the Deity of Christ, the Deity of the Holy Spirit, etc.?
Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν Πατέρα παντοκράτορα, πάντων ὁρατῶν τε και ἀοράτων ποιητήν.
We believe in One God, the Father Almighty . . .
Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ, γεννηθέντα ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς μονογενῆ, τοὐτέστιν ἐκ τῆς οὐσίας τοῦ Πατρός, Θεὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα, οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί ( one substance with the Father)
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
LikeLike
No Paul did not teach Jesus was God. That’s the sin of anachronism again.
‘But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the husband is the head of his wife, and God is the head of Christ.’
Jesus has a God.
LikeLiked by 4 people
1 Corinthians 11:3 is not a problem; of course the Father is greater in authority as the Father in His role as Father, in relation to the Son. I already answered all of that; and the quote by J. I. Packer also demonstrates this.
LikeLike
Corinthians 15:27-28
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: “through him all things were made.”)
LikeLiked by 2 people
eternal fixed relationships – Father and Son; see the quote by J. I. Packer.
I already answered and refuted you.
LikeLike
Paker does not deal honestly with the texts. He reads into them. As you do.
LikeLike
Everyone Trinitarian always read them this way, including the Greek Fathers and Latin fathers, long history of many scholars who know a lot more than you.
18 more Evangelical Trinitarian theologians here, same:
http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2016/06/another-thirteen-evangelical-t.php
LikeLike
In the same gospel, Jesus used ( isn’t written in your law) argument about using the word (god). I don’t think that John’s Gospel wanted to say that Jesus is co equal with God the Father, especially with the fact of (John17:3) which is so hard to swallow that even Augustine had to change its wording!
Regarding Paul,
( in the form of God) & ( exact imprint &expresses) ≠ the same being shared with 3 persons even if you have wings! It doesn’t work that way.
Again, if this is the case with Paul, I’m glad to explain why he used the expression (one God) in a contradictory manner with (your trinity) in 1 Timothy 2:5? In fact, it seems that expression doesn’t go with the Trinity of Tertullian too.
BTW, you have to remember that the style of “putting” all things together is impossible with the fact that your bible has not been produced as one printed book. The letters of Paul were written in different time and for different people. christians are so wrong when they project their ideas and situations on history.
LikeLike
our 27 book NT has greater credibility, because the nine authors (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Hebrews) agreed with each other and confirmed one another. They were not just one man making an empty claim, as your false prophet did. Muhammad did not have anyone else to confirm him; it just his empty and powerless and subjective claim. He and his followers had to spread Islam by the sword and injustice and oppression (Jiziye, Dhimmi principles) because it is such a weak thing. It is afraid of questions and afraid of evangelism and debate and apostasy, that is why it is so harsh with anti-blasphemy laws and anti-apostasy laws – afraid of freedom of speech and freedom of religion and freedom to leave the oppressive system.
LikeLike
Of course Jesus as the Son will submit to the Father. That is there role / function.
God in 1 Cor. 15:28 means “the Father”
LikeLike
““everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself”
If Paul had had the idea of trinity of today, he would’ve not needed to state this verse above. But it’s obvious that he had an idea that God is something separate from Jesus.
There’s nothing in the whole NT which forces us to get the crazy idea of your trinity, Ken.
LikeLike
“our 27 book NT has greater credibility, because the nine authors (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Hebrews) agreed with each other and confirmed one another. ”
Once I read this, I realized that I’m wasting my time with you, Ken.
BTW, If you wanna cry anyway, then it’s better to do as your god did it when he cried “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”.
After all, your god has been forsaken by his god, so do you think you’d be better?
I really feel sorry for you, Ken. May Allah(sw) guide you and bring you to his mercy.
Indeed He’s Al Waleyy and Al Hameed. الوليّ الحميد
LikeLike
“””our 27 book NT has greater credibility, because the nine authors (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Hebrews) agreed with each other and confirmed one another. They were not just one man making an empty claim, as your false prophet did. Muhammad did not have anyone else to confirm him; it just his empty and powerless and subjective claim. He and his followers had to spread Islam by the sword and injustice and oppression (Jiziye, Dhimmi principles) because it is such a weak thing. It is afraid of questions and afraid of evangelism and debate and apostasy, that is why it is so harsh with anti-blasphemy laws and anti-apostasy laws – afraid of freedom of speech and freedom of religion and freedom to leave the oppressive system.”””
Dear God, Ken!!
You have to be joking! Your 27 books have absolutely no credibility what so ever. Six of the 13 letters are not written by Paul, the four gospels are not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, 2 Peter is not written by Peter while it says it’s written by Peter and hence it’s a forgery, etc etc etc. Pathetic!
“They were not just one man making an empty claim, as your false prophet did” Even if it’s true (it’s not) that these men made such claims why do you say that Muhammad is just one man making these claims. You are putting the credibility of men who some of them never even met Jesus and you say they affirm each other. Lol! Abu bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Zaid, ……. a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG list of people who new the Prophet and talked with him and walked with him and prayed with him and ate with him affirm his words as well. How does anything you said hold any value?
You are putting the affirmation of people (which like I said some of them never even knew Jesus) and pretend that’s somehow an argument while we have a never ending list of people who all confirm Muhammad. People that were closest to him.
What a pathetic argument Ken!
Then you speak about the sword and brag about freedom of speech but your man-god didn’t get the memo in the OT apparently when he did the things he did. Muslims were required to pay Zakat Ken. You know this full well. In order to compensate for living under Islamic Law while Muslims are paying Zakat, the other had to pay the Jizya and military service wasn’t not obligatory to them. But hey let’s just all ignore that right.
No one has spilled more blood the crosstians who killed countless of people and took over their lands in the name of their god.
The history of Islam compared to that of crosstianity is like comparing ghandi movement to that of the fascist movement.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Nope; there are no forgeries in the NT, nor in the OT.
Yours is a pathetic argument.
Jiziye and Dhimmi-ism was unjust and oppressive and wrong; and sucked the life out of those Christians. Your system is afraid of people leaving, so you have to have force and apostasy laws. The NT with no war by the church (John 18:36; Matthew 26:52; Ephesians 6:10-18) ( the Roman Catholic Inquisitions and Crusades were violations of the NT) and freedom of religion is clearly superior.
LikeLike
Nope; there are no forgeries in the NT, nor in the OT.
Yours is a pathetic argument.
Jiziye and Dhimmi-ism was unjust and oppressive and wrong; and sucked the life out of those Christians. Your system is afraid of people leaving, so you have to have force and apostasy laws. The NT with no war by the church (John 18:36; Matthew 26:52; Ephesians 6:10-18) ( the Roman Catholic Inquisitions and Crusades were violations of the NT) and freedom of religion is clearly superior.
O Ken. O Kenny kenny ken!
Poor kiddo.
Delusion is a Christian’s best friend and logic his worst enemy.
Hahaha! There are no forgeries in the NT??? Ok buddy, go back to sleep. Live the dream again. Everyone agrees 2 Peter was written by a potato who was NOT Peter!
Jizya is perfectly just cus Muslims have to pay Zakat. If only Muslims have to pay (Zakat) and everyone else doesn’t, that’s what you call FAIR???? Are you kidding me? Under a state’s control everyone has to pay taxes. You just use a pathetic excuse because the NAME of the tax is different to that of the Muslims. We pay Zakat while the non-Muslims have to pay Jizya.
And like I said military service is NOT obligatory!
Freedom of religion is NOT what the church pushed when South-America got ethnically cleansed by Christians, same with North-America. What a pathetic attempt to rewrite history.
There was not even freedom of religion in the OT. Apostasy was punished by death.
This was brought to you by your lord and savior Jesus Christ. The peace loving, tree hugging, hippy messiah.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The NT fulfilled the OT and did away with Theocratic Israel. The church is made up of all peoples and cultures and is not political nor militaristic, unlike Islam, which is dry external ritual and law and harsh punishment rules, totally political and Jihadistic-militaristic and unjust.
“our struggle is not against flesh and blood” Not against humans or physical, but our struggle is spiritual “warfare” against the Satanic forces and the desires of the flesh. (Ephesians 6:10-18; 2 Cor. 10:3-5; 1 Peter 2:11; Galatians 5:13-26; Romans 8:13)
“Make War!” (spiritually against the sinful self) Exposition of Romans 8:13 by John Piper:
LikeLike
2 Peter was probably dictated to Jude from prison, before Peter was executed by Nero; and then Jude wrote it in his own words; hence the similarity to Jude’s words.
LikeLike
Hippy messiah? Which hippy do you know waste 300 dinari worth of oil on his body so that it could prevent the stink of death ? I don’t know of any hippy who does that.
LikeLike
“2 Peter was probably dictated to Jude from prison, before Peter was executed by Nero; and then Jude wrote it in his own words; hence the similarity to Jude’s words.”
No scholar agrees with you. The author says he is Peter. So that means Jude lied. You can try and beatify it but a lie remains a lie. The evidence that Jude even wrote 2 Peter is extremely poor.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Ken Temple nowhere in the Bible is Trinity taught. Just the opposite the Word of God clearly demands us only to worship One true God. Never Jesus nor his apostles claimed that he would be the God of gods. You seem to overlook that little word ‘and’ in several quotations and you do not seem to believe God Himself Who declared Jesus His only begotten beloved son. also you do not seem to believe Jesus neither, because than you should know Jesus could not do anything without his heavenly Father Whose Will Jesus always tried to do putting his own will aside. (When Jesus is God he would always have done his own will and would have told lies on several occasions, whilst we know that God does not tell lies and that Jesus did not sin so would also not have told lies.)
LikeLike
Only unique eternal Son – John 17:5 and John 1:1 shows the Word / the Son was from all eternity with the Father – the Deity of Christ then implies the doctrine of the Trinity, because there is only one God – so one God by nature / substance (homo – ousias – same nature), along with the verses about the Deity of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-5; Genesis 1:1-3; Psalm 104:30) That all three are mentioned in many Biblical texts points to the doctrine of the Trinity. (Trinitas Unitas = 3 in One) – Matthew 28:19
2 Corinthians 13:14
Matthew 3:13-17
1 Peter 1:2
Ephesians 1:3-14
Ephesians 4:4-6
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
Deity of Christ is clear: John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8; Colossians 1:15-20; Hebrews 1:3, 6, 8, 10-12; John 5:17-18; 8:24; 8:56-58; 10:30; 18:1-6; 20:28; 1 John 5:20
LikeLike
It is quite posible to interpret all these verses in very different ways without Jesus being Yahweh. Just look at the academic commentaries. That’s the Achilles heal of your position Ken. Many top scholars would disagree with you. The verses are not as clear as you would have us believe.
LikeLike
To go on all these verses which not at all point to a triune god would demand to much time. Ken Temple and some other people here are too much caught up with the Trinitarian vision it is not worth spending or loosing time on — sorry. They are invited to read the many article on those verses and should better think on what use such a parade of God would have to fake His temptation and His death and not to tell the truth, becaus eGod is all knowing but Jesus said he did not know who would be seated next to him nor when he would come back. They also forget those verses wherein Jesus talks about his relationship with God:
“I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” (Joh 10:9 AV)
“17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 31 ¶ If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have greater witness than [that] of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.” (Joh 5:17-36 AV)
“27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 ¶ Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.” (Joh 14:27-31 AV)
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.” (1Co 11:3 AV)
“And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.” (1Co 15:28 AV)
And listen to God Himself Who declared
“30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (Lu 1:30-35 AV)
“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,” (Lu 3:21 AV)
“21 ¶ Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. 23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli,” (Lu 3:21-23 AV)
“1 ¶ Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. 2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. 3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for [your] journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece. 4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart. 5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. 6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where. 7 Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead; 8 And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again. 9 And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him. 10 ¶ And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida. 11 And the people, when they knew [it], followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing. 12 And when the day began to wear away, then came the twelve, and said unto him, Send the multitude away, that they may go into the towns and country round about, and lodge, and get victuals: for we are here in a desert place. 13 But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people. 14 For they were about five thousand men. And he said to his disciples, Make them sit down by fifties in a company. 15 And they did so, and made them all sit down. 16 Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude. 17 And they did eat, and were all filled: and there was taken up of fragments that remained to them twelve baskets. 18 ¶ And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am? 19 They answering said, John the Baptist; but some [say], Elias; and others [say], that one of the old prophets is risen again. 20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. 21 And he straitly charged them, and commanded [them] to tell no man that thing; 22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. 23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. 25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? 26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father’s, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. 28 ¶ And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. {sayings: or, things} 29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment [was] white [and] glistering. 30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: 31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him. 33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said. 34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. 35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. 36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept [it] close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen. 37 ¶ And it came to pass, that on the next day, when they were come down from the hill, much people met him. 38 And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine only child. 39 And, lo, a spirit taketh him, and he suddenly crieth out; and it teareth him that he foameth again, and bruising him hardly departeth from him. 40 And I besought thy disciples to cast him out; and they could not. 41 And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. 42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare [him]. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father. 43 ¶ And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, 44 Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. 45 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. 46 Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. 47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, 48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. 49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us. 51 ¶ And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, 52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save [them]. And they went to another village. 57 ¶ And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain [man] said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head. 59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. 61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. 62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.” (Lu 9:1-62 AV)
“And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.” (Lu 9:35 AV)
“16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened {1} unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him; {1) Some ancient authorities omit [unto him]} 17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, {1} This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. {1) Or [This is my Son; my beloved in whom I am well pleased.] See Mt 12:18}” (Mt 3:16-17 ASV)
LikeLike
Ignatius (ca. 30-107 A.D), a bishop of Antioch, Syria, a friend of Polycarp, familiar with the Apostles and Paul, and a martyr(Rome c. 107 A.D.), is one of my favorite apostolic fathers (I would encourage Christians to read his letters). In this post, I shared Ignatius understanding of who Christ Jesus is. I went through all his known letters collecting the explicit affirmation of Christ Jesus’ identity to helps us answer the question posed on the title: Is Christ Jesus God?
In the opening of his letter to the Ephesians, Ignatius wrote:
Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia, deservedly most happy, being blessed in the greatness and fulness of God the Father, and predestinated before the beginning of time, that it should be always for an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united and elected through the true passion by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God: Abundant happiness through Jesus Christ, and His undefiled grace.
Ignatius helps us affirms that ‘his own blood’(Acts 20:28) refer back to ‘God’, thus a powerful evidence of Christ Jesus’ Deity: “the church of God which he purchased with his own blood” in Letter To Ephesians chapter 1.
Being the followers of God, and stirring up yourselves by the blood of God, ye have perfectly accomplished the work which was beseeming to you.
In chapter 7:
There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible,— even Jesus Christ our Lord.
Chapter 18:
For our God, Jesus Christ, was, according to the appointment of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Ghost. He was born and baptized, that by His passion He might purify the water.
Ignatius letter to the Trallians:
Chapter 9:
Stop your ears, therefore, when any one speaks to you at variance with Jesus Christ, who was descended from David, and was also of Mary; who was truly born, and did eat and drink. He was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate; He was truly crucified, and [truly] died, in the sight of beings in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth. He was also truly raised from the dead, His Father quickening Him, even as after the same manner His Father will so raise up us who believe in Him by Christ Jesus, apart from whom we do not possess the true life.
Letter to The Romans (My favorite)
Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that willeth all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honour, worthy of the highest happiness, worthy of praise, worthy of obtaining her every desire, worthy of being deemed holy, and which presides over love, is named from Christ, and from the Father, which I also salute in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father: to those who are united, both according to the flesh and spirit, to every one of His commandments; who are filled inseparably with the grace of God, and are purified from every strange taint, [I wish] abundance of happiness unblameably, in Jesus Christ our God.
Chapter 3:
Only request in my behalf both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but [truly] will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. For if I be truly found [a Christian], I may also be called one, and be then deemed faithful, when I shall no longer appear to the world. Nothing visible is eternal. “For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.” For our God, Jesus Christ, now that He is with the Father, is all the more revealed [in His glory]. Christianity is not a thing of silence only, but also of [manifest] greatness.
Chapter 6:
Permit me to be an imitator of the passion of my God.
Letter to the Symrnæans:
Chapter 1:
I GLORIFY God, even Jesus Christ, who has given you such wisdom. For I have observed that ye are perfected in an immoveable faith, as if ye were nailed to the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, both in the flesh and in the spirit, and are established in love through the blood of Christ, being fully persuaded with respect to our Lord, that He was truly of the seed of David according to the flesh, and the Son of God according to the will and power of God; that He was truly born of a virgin, was baptized by John, in order that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him; and was truly, under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch, nailed [to the cross] for us in His flesh. Of this fruit we are by His divinely-blessed passion, that He might set up a standard for all ages, through His resurrection, to all His holy and faithful [followers], whether among Jews or Gentiles, in the one body of His Church.
Chapter 3:
For I know that after His resurrection also He was still possessed of flesh, and I believe that He is so now. When, for instance, He came to those who were with Peter, He said to them, “Lay hold, handle Me, and see that I am not an incorporeal spirit.” And immediately they touched Him, and believed, being convinced both by His flesh and spirit. For this cause also they despised death, and were found its conquerors. And after his resurrection He did eat and drink with them, as being possessed of flesh, although spiritually He was united to the Father.
Letter to Polycarp:
Chapter 3
Be ever becoming more zealous than what thou art. Weigh carefully the times. Look for Him who is above all time, eternal and invisible, yet who became visible for our sakes; impalpable and impassible, yet who became passible on our account; and who in every kind of way suffered for our sakes.
Chapter 8
I pray for your happiness for ever in our God, Jesus Christ, by whom continue ye in the unity and under the protection of God
Is Christ Jesus God? Ignatius of Antioch answers Yes.
With assurance, joy and delight, we join doubting Thomas’ affirmation(John 2028), Christ Jesus is our Lord and our God.
N.B: When we affirm that Jesus is Yahweh, we do not claim him to be the Father. We affirm that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons in one and only Yahweh.
Source:
The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume I: The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus. 1885 (A. Roberts, J. Donaldson & A. C. Coxe, Ed.) (p. 49, 52, 57, 69-70, 73,74–75, 76, 86,87, 94 and 96). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company. (The quotes are from the shorted version of Ignatius Letters, emphasis added)
LikeLike
From this excellent article.
https://withalliamgod.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/is-christ-jesus-god-answers-from-ignatiusca-30-107-a-d/
LikeLike
LOL, the early church fathers also believed that angels had sex with humans and that every person is capable of good and was not tainted by original sin. But of course, when the early church fathers disagree with Ken, he casts them aside. How convenient!
https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2017/07/27/born-a-sinner-a-critical-investigation-of-the-origin-of-original-sin/
https://bloggingtheology.net/2016/08/28/hadith-explained-satan-breaking-wind-farting/#comment-23297
LikeLike
the church fathers are not infallible, but Scripture is. So all ideas have to be judged based on Scripture and consistency and logic in interpretation.
Ignatius, Tertullian, Irenaeus, Athanasius, Augustine, Hillary, Gregory of Nyssa, Basil of Caesarea, Gregory Naziansus, and others were correct and agreed on the Deity of Christ, and the Deity of the Holy Spirit; which lead to working out the details of One God in three persons, since Scripture also clearly teaches that there is only one God, and that the Holy Spirit is God by nature, and that each person has personal spiritual relationship and communication with one another. (The Father loves the Son, the Son prays to the Father, the Spirit testifies to the Son, the Holy Spirit can be grieved (Eph. 4:30) and lied to (Acts 5:3-5). “person” (Greek: hypostasis, Latin: persona; Syriac: Uqnoom, which came from Greek, Gnoma γνωμα = idea, opinion, purpose, mind, intension) was the best way to describe these Scriptural descriptions of the relations between them. The Arabic and Farsi term for “person” among the Christian churches, is اقنوم Uqnoom, which came from the Greek, Gnoma – which points to a personal opinion or purpose or mind or idea; hence “person” or “personality”.
LikeLike
I am still working through you article on original sin. Thanks for reminding me to get back to it; I had forgotten since the last time I mentioned it.
LikeLike
Special pleading yet again from Ken. If the church fathers were not fallible, then there is no reason to put any weight on anything they said. They are essentially unreliable. They read the scripture so why did they interpret it so differently than you do? Your appeals to them are inconsistent, so there is no reason to care about their opinions.
The irony is that your church tradition claims that some of the church fathers were students of the disciples themselves, or lived in very close proximity to their time! How did they stray so far on such important matters as original sin? Sounds fishy, doesn’t it? Maybe it’s because they didn’t really know the disciples and your church tradition is just a bunch of baloney. And also, maybe it’s because your Bible is just so vague and inconsistent. It confused the hell out of even the early Christians!
LikeLike
Gotta love Yahya’s eisegesis to remove a text about the gospel and change it to a text about islamic polemics.
Yahya, I’ve told u before- you need to leave your computer and find some friends who are christians
LikeLike
I see similarity.
LikeLike
Yah-yah, uh-huh.
Galatians 1 says this
Paul affirms the deity of Jesus. I’ll spell it out…
Paul preaches the gospel is not of human origin, and that he did not receive it from any man, nor was he taught it.
Rather, he received it from Jesus. Can you put two and two together, or are you blinded by the darkness?
I’ll spell it out for you…..
Paul received the gospel from Jesus, he did not get it from any man, it is not of human origin….hmmmm…something to think about.
Based on this, your only conclusion has to be that islam is false and the quran is nonsense.
LikeLike
currenly “one OF yhwh” is FILLING you.
IS that one IN you has oneness like a goat has oneness?
LikeLike
“Paul preaches the gospel is not of human origin, and that he did not receive it from any man, nor was he taught it.
Rather, he received it from Jesus. Can you put two and two together, or are you blinded by the darkness?”
are angels humans?
are angels co-equal to yhwh?
LikeLike
“Based on this, your only conclusion has to be that islam is false and the quran is nonsense.”
Based on that? You actually think we take your potato of tarsus seriously? I don’t care what he says.
Receiving revelation from Jesus and that it’s not human origin cannot mean what you said.
Paul explicitly calls Jesus a man (1 Corinthians 11:3). If he didn’t receive it from a man than he is contradicting himself. Like he does all the time.
LikeLike
belieber
“Receiving revelation from Jesus and that it’s not human origin cannot mean what you said.
Paul explicitly calls Jesus a man (1 Corinthians 11:3). If he didn’t receive it from a man than he is contradicting himself. Like he does all the time.”
LOL!! You are a masochist. And an idiot.
1 Corinthinas 11:3 says nothing of the sort – you are desperate.
LikeLike
Moron. Know your own pagan doctrine you idiot. How the hell can you have a man-god (100 % man, 100 % god) if Jesus is not a man?
You’re right about 1 Corinthians 11:3. I gave you the wrong verse.
1 Timothy 2:5:
“For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the MAN Christ Jesus,”
LikeLike
belieber
” Know your own pagan doctrine you idiot. How the hell can you have a man-god (100 % man, 100 % god) if Jesus is not a man?”
Where did I say jesus was not a man? Idiot.
“1 Timothy 2:5:
“For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the MAN Christ Jesus,””
So dumb, belieber.
Tim 1:4:10
Tim 2:1:10
You have been owned. Islam is false. You are an idiot.
LikeLike
To show once again that you are nothing more than a liar:
“Paul preaches the gospel is not of human origin, and that he did not receive it from any man, nor was he taught it.
RATHER, he received it from Jesus.”
I’m quoting your own sayings. He did not receive it from ANY man. Jesus was a man. Can you put two and two together???
You also said ‘rather’. These are your words!
Make up your mind already troll.
You have been owned. Christianity is false. You are an idiot.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Have a good night joel.
LikeLike
Don’t worry brother. I’m sure Coco will sleep snugly in his tree!
LikeLiked by 2 people
belieber
You’re an imbecile. You cited christian theology yourself, stupid. Jesus is both god and man, there is nothing to see here, christians acknowledge jesus was a man, sadly for you, the verses you cite and the verse I cite show the deity of jesus as well.
So much ignorance.
LikeLike
“You cited christian theology yourself, stupid. Jesus is both god and man, ”
jesus = a single person . you are saying your pagan SINGLE person who has ONENESS like a GOAT exists as 2 CONTRADICTORY things.
can the father exist as 2 contradictory things?
can jesus exist as male and female and animal at the same time?
does your theological beliefs allow your god access to becoming like a goat?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Hahaha, little Coco is unable to refute Atlas’ simple point that Jesus was a MAN. It does not matter whether he was man and “god”. He was still a MAN! Thus, Paul’s proclamation that his gospel was not received from any MAN shows that Paul was just as confused as you idiots are. What can we expect from a false apostle who never even met Jesus?
LikeLiked by 2 people
qb
You worship a god whose oneness is the same as a goat’s, no wonder you make such stupid comments. Belieber can’t comprehend plain English and thinks that he has refuted christian theology when we have explained that, yes, we know jesus was a man, what’s your point?
What is your point, idiot?
LikeLike
currenly “one OF yhwh” is FILLING you.
IS that one IN you has oneness like a goat has oneness?
LikeLike
Hahaha, Coco now tries to deflect from his contradictory theology. That tells you that he is getting desperate.
Coco, why did Paul say that he did not get his gospel from a MAN, when clearly Jesus was a MAN? Where did Paul even say that Jesus was both god and man? That he had 2 natures? You know as well as I do that this “2 nature” business was only made into doctrine by later Christians.
Now try again idiot. And then go eat some more bananas.
LikeLike
qb
“Coco, why did Paul say that he did not get his gospel from a MAN, when clearly Jesus was a MAN? Where did Paul even say that Jesus was both god and man? “
Because he knew that Jesus was deity, stupid. Paul at various places refers to jesus as a man, and in other places he is god. Where did allah tell muslims to follow the book of bukhari?
LikeLike
how did paul know how the man god myth looked like? jesus has many facials in the gospels, so how do you know they knew they were seeing jesus the historical rabbi?
maybe it was satan
which other prophet got blinded for 3 days and couldn’t eat or drink?
why did jesus do VIOLENCE on his paulwallay? jesus was hippy man of peace and love, but he liked blinding people?
LikeLike
“Because he knew that Jesus was deity, stupid. Paul at various places refers to jesus as a man, and in other places he is god. Where did allah tell muslims to follow the book of bukhari?”
LOL, more anachronisms! Paul showed that he knew nothing about Jesus’ alleged “two natures”. Otherwise, he would have made that very clear instead of referring to one nature in one particular instance. Remember, Paul wrote his letters to clarify Christian doctrine. It seems he was just as confused as his followers! And here we are 2000 years later, and Christians are still struggling to explain why their Bible is such a confused book!
LikeLiked by 2 people
qb
“Otherwise, he would have made that very clear instead of referring to one nature in one particular instance.”
But he refers to jesus’ two natures in two different instances. How can you be so dumb? Oh, I know, your god is goat in his oneness. LOL!!
Oh, where did allah command muslims to follow the book of bukhari? Why do you submit to bukhari?
LikeLike
LOL, the dummy still doesn’t get it!
Why did your false apostle not CLEARLY say that Jesus had 2 natures? What was the point of writing these letters if he didn’t even bother to clearly state such as important Christian doctrine?
I was giving you the opportunity to eventually realize that not all of the letters that are ascribed to Paul were actually written by him, but I expected that a dummy like you would never pick up on it. This is why your special pleading about referring to Jesus as man and god in different “instances” backfires. Get it now dummy?
LikeLike
qb
“Why did your false apostle not CLEARLY say that Jesus had 2 natures? What was the point of writing these letters if he didn’t even bother to clearly state such as important Christian doctrine?”
I suspect Paul did not count on the dumbing own effect that islam would have on its followers. Saying in some passages that jesus is god, and in others that he was a man, is pretty “CLEAR”.
Unless, you are too dense for words. You are too dense for words. Even your god’s goaty oneness is confusing you.
LikeLike
LOL, so all Coco can do is make up theories instead of realizing that his false apostle utterly failed to explain such as important doctrine in his letters. Then why even write those letters?
So let’s recount:
1. NONE of the most important Christians doctrines are stated CLEARLY in Coco’s Bible, whether it be the trinity, original sin or Jesus’ two natures.
2. Coco does not realize that some of the the letters of “Paul” were not actually written by him, so the idea that he mentioned the 2 natures in different instances does not prove that he was aware of Jesus’ two natures. It could just be someone pretending to be Paul in one of those instances.
LikeLike
Let him.
He is a total loser.
He completely went off road by ignoring my point and started talking about what Paul says.
I just showed him his own stupidity when he said that Paul didn’t receive it from ANY man while Jesus was a man. The logic of this kid (or rather the lack thereof) is just mindbogglingly cringy.
O and how is the oneness of the Father OR the Son OR the HS different from ours?
You still talk about oneness and goatness so please do respond to that loser.
LikeLiked by 1 person
qb
Paul names jesus as the god who is the saviour and he names him as a man – hard for you to understand because your god’s attribute of oneness is shared by animals of the lowliest order. In christianity, god and man have two natures – it is self evidently clearly stated. You are a moron.
“Coco does not realize that some of the the letters of “Paul” were not actually written by him, so the idea that he mentioned the 2 natures in different instances does not prove that he was aware of Jesus’ two natures”
LOL!! Now you admit that the bible does, in fact, teach the two natures of jesus.
Of course, you have to denigrate the true god because your allah had to plagiarize pagans, rabbis, and christian forgers. So why does allah steal stories from human beings? LOL!!!
LikeLike
belieber
“I just showed him his own stupidity when he said that Paul didn’t receive it from ANY man while Jesus was a man.”
Just because you are too stupid to comprehend a simple point, doesn’t mean I’ve gone off road. You are too idiotic to realize that quoting a verse from a different book of the bible doesn’t change the meaning of the verse where Paul clearly refers to jesus as god. You just can’t get any more stupid.
“O and how is the oneness of the Father OR the Son OR the HS different from ours?”
LOL!!! We’re not triune dumbass, that’s how we’re different. You have basically acknowledged that goats, cows, and monkeys can attain allah’s oneness, because theirs is the same as allah’s.
You don’t worship any god, your “god” is an imposter.
LikeLike
1 Corinthians 11:3 does not say “Jesus Christ is a man”; the subject there is how a wife is under the authority of her husband (man, male) and the husband/ man/ male is under authority of Christ, and Christ, as the Son, is under the authority of God the Father.
But even if it did say Jesus is a man – that is not a problem, since Jesus is both man and God. He is one person with 2 natures. So, no problem.
LikeLike
1 Timothy 2:5
Gave a wrong verse.
LikeLike
” He is one person with 2 natures.”
then the same person is an idolater in the same person. he being fully 1 person would have to avoid doing idolatry with himself , which is IMPOSSIBLE
it is the same PERSON which utters “i am” which means the same person did IDOLATRY with himself.
if you walked in a room and you caught jesus chatting to himself in self aggrandization way, considering himself the yhwh, then jesus was DOING idolatry with his OWN self.
just like you can’t avoid idolatry neither could jesus.
LikeLike
just catch you pagans out by playing the game “cover the box”
everyone will note how you guys trip by breaking the person or dividing it.
LikeLike
If you worship Jesus then you not only worship God but also man.
Worshiping him comes with the whole package.
LikeLike
Ken Temple
September 30, 2017 • 4:35 pm
1 Corinthians 11:3 does not say “Jesus Christ is a man”; the subject there is how a wife is under the authority of her husband (man, male) and the husband/ man/ male is under authority of Christ, and Christ, as the Son, is under the authority of God the Father.
But even if it did say Jesus is a man – that is not a problem, since Jesus is both man and God. He is one person with 2 natures. So, no problem.
I say;
It is a big problem and an impossibility for God to be a creation(man) at the same time, unless you accept Hindu cow and God at the same time.
Thanks.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ken Temple
My friend the Rt. Revered believes in creature God i.e. Jesus Christ(God-Man). He believes God is a creature(man) at the same time. Well, there are so many creature Gods in the world. If you believe such thing can happen, then you have more population of creature Gods.
List of creature Gods.
1. Jesus Christ.
2. Hindu cow
3. Voodoo nake
4. Hindu God Man
6. God elephant.
And many more. Yes, you believed God can become His creation and you are not the only one but most polytheists and idol worshipers believed so and add their Gods to the ONLY ONE TRUE God of Jesus who is not Jesus but sent Jesus. It is clearly away from Biblical God and punishable in hell fire.
Thanks.
LikeLiked by 1 person
No, because the New Testament tells us there is only God; in three persons; and only the eternal Son / eternal Word کلمه الله
(Kalimat Allah) Jesus Christ became flesh / human (John 1:1-5; John 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8); and only the New Testament (the true Injeel انجیل حقیقی ) is the final written word of God (Holy God-breathed Scripture – 2 Tim. 3:16), so there are no “creature gods”. The One God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is One God; and the Father did not become a human and the Holy Spirit did not become a human.
John 4:34-24
“God is Spirit” – so you are wrong, my friend “Intellect”.
LikeLike
“. The One God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is One God; and the Father did not become a human and the Holy Spirit did not become a human.”
in other words the father was a distant god and the son was a created god ?
bit like this
In response, an anonymous poet wrote a hymn celebrating the actions and character of Demetrius, associating him with the great goddess of Greece, Demeter. Here is an extract of his hymn:
The greatest among the gods have drawn close to our city…
Both Demeter and Demetrius…
Hail to you, O Son of the mighty god Poseidon and of Aphrodite.
The other gods dwell so far away,
or else they have no ears,
or they do not exist, or do not care at all about us
We see you in our midst,
not a wooden or stone presence, but bodily
And so we pray to you… bring about peace
for you are the Lord (κύριος)
Notice what is said of Demetrius. He is one of the “greatest gods,” the son of God” (specifically of the gods Poseidon and Aphrodite), one who is “near” his own people – not remote, off on Mount Olympus, the one who “brings peace,” who can be called “Lord.”
//////////
if you argue that the father was NOT a distant god, then what need is the son?
Jeremiah 2:5New International Version (NIV)
5 This is what the Lord says:
“What fault did your ancestors find in me,
that they strayed so far from me?
They followed worthless idols
and became worthless themselves.
what fault did the jews find in the father that they left him and prostituted their hearts for a flesh god?
what fault?
LikeLike
yhwh created a complex animal sacrificial ritual system only to have it undone by MURDER of a jew? and the jew is god himself? weren’t yhwhs relationship with the jews THROUGH his rituals/laws/commands/instructions etc good enough? was blood of human on the MENU all along? yhwh could not change hearts without murder of human sacrificial rituals? what fault you found that you needed human SACRIFICE to get close to yhwh?
LikeLike
“Even your god’s goaty oneness is confusing you.”
your 3 headed PIG god (3 conscious persons) one being/animal being has not confused you ?
LikeLike
Coco the simian said:
“Paul names jesus as the god who is the saviour and he names him as a man – hard for you to understand because your god’s attribute of oneness is shared by animals of the lowliest order. In christianity, god and man have two natures – it is self evidently clearly stated. You are a moron.”
LOL, STILL not getting? Your false apostle NEVER clearly stated that Jesus had 2 natures! Appealing to isolated verses and putting them together does not explain this conundrum! Any person reading those isolated verses could just as easily assume that Jesus was just like the Roman emperors. They were humans but were worshiped as gods. The same thing goes for the pharaohs. No one thought that they had 2 natures.
“LOL!! Now you admit that the bible does, in fact, teach the two natures of jesus.
Of course, you have to denigrate the true god because your allah had to plagiarize pagans, rabbis, and christian forgers. So why does allah steal stories from human beings? LOL!!!”
ROTFL, it’s amazing how dense Coco is! I guess the all-banana diet is not keeping your brain healthy!
I never said that the Bible does not treat Jesus as “god”. I said that it never CLEARLY states that he had 2 natures. It’s no wonder that your pathetic religion had to hold ecumenical councils to “clarify” this doctrine. Even then, there were dissenters (monophysites), who were then brutally persecuted by the diphysites. All of the schisms in your religion are due to your Bible’s inability to CLEARLY explain what Christians are supposed to believe. Get it now, moron? I’m not holding my breath!
Why does your Bible have pagan myths? LOL!!!
LikeLike
As a devote Jew, like Jeshua (Jesus Christ), he with the followers of the sent one from God, knew very well which position Jesus took and how he never claimed to be God or to be equal to God. The falls doctrine of the Trinity is something where real followers of Jeshua (Jesus Christ) always had to fight against – and that warning against such falls teachings we already find in the “acts of apostles”.
LikeLike