Folks, this is the fruit of irresponsible teachers and/or influences who are antagonistic towards Muslims and Islam. Jay Smith, Sam Shamoun, Beth Grove etc., all need to take a look in the mirror.
This poor lady, Hatun Tash of DCCI Ministries, is so obnoxious, rude and disrespectful towards Muslims and their faith on a regular basis. She’s clearly a victim of people with nefarious agendas who instilled such a venomous spirit of confrontation into her with respect to Muslims and Islam. Jay Smith and Beth Grove should be ashamed.
Muslims, please pray for this lady so that she turns her life around for the better, becomes more loving and moves away from Islamophobic, hateful and offensive behaviour. This type of anti-Muslim abuse, mockery and provocation is toxic. Sadly, it’s a sign of the times. These folks believe they are followers of Jesus and are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Their behaviour refutes their personal beliefs.
In this video we see Hatun Tash, formerly of Pfander Ministries, and now of DCCI Ministries, along with her friend Daniel Zelalem, mock the Quran and call a KKK handbook the Quran. They (Daniel in this case) also liken an ex-Christian, who converted to Islam, to a “dog” and liken his faith to “vomit” whilst calling him a fool. Hatun Tash invades a Muslim man’s personal boundaries and hugs him despite him not giving her permission and not wanting contact with a female who is not a family member – all in an effort to cause drama.
Orthodox Jewish and many Muslim men and women do not touch a person of the opposite gender if they are not family members. The Jews call this Shomer Negiah. To listen to a great explanation of this practice by a Jewish lady and a couple of Muslim scholars please see here.
Hatun Tash’s unwanted touching would be seen as offensive and disturbing. You just don’t touch people without their permission. You can’t go around making people so uncomfortable, regardless of whether you think it’s harmless fun. Please respect people’s boundaries. I would encourage Hatun to apologise.
Insulting somebody’s holy book and deliberately identifying it with a KKK manual is offensive and childish. Clearly that stunt was designed for mockery; I would call for both Daniel and Hatun to sincere apology.
The man calling the young Muslim gentleman a “fool” and likening him to a “dog” and his faith to “vomit” is something Daniel (and Hatun, seen as she was laughing) should apologise. The wider problem here is that this type of abuse of Muslims is not isolated, it appears to be a common theme amongst many Christians (online mainly). As we learnt, Hatun’s teacher calls Muslims “sewage”.
Perhaps Hatun and Lizzie Schofield believe insulting non-Christians is biblical as Jesus was harsh in the NT at times. If I understand correctly, Mr Shamoun, takes the view his insults are not in contravention with Christian behaviour.
Sam Shamoun calls me “sewage” and “slime”. He uses such de-humanising terms for people he feels threatened by regularly – he’s been doing it for years. Is this something you believe is endorsed by Christianity? IIRC Sam Shamoun justifies his hard-line stance by claiming Jesus was harsh with certain people in the NT. I suspect he believes Jesus agrees with his abuse and it is biblical behaviour. You can verify whether this is the case or not.
In our last email exchange which a Christian radio/TV show presenter as CC’d in he called me all of the following:
A “vile dog”, “slime” “Muhammadan dog” “swine”, “vile rabid dog”. Sam wants to “muzzle” my “rabid mouth”
I’ve forwarded these abusive emails to my friend, reverend Samuel Green.
In this case, although I do encourage a public apology, I won’t ask for it myself as it may be that Lizzie, Daniel and Hatun believe their comments were acceptable according to their Church tradition.
Church of England Churches Asked To Investigate Beth Grove!
Is Christian Persecution Complex Harming Muslim-Christian Dialogue?
Do Jay Smith’s Pfander Centre for Apologetics Really Preach Trinitarian Views on Jesus?
Does Jesus use Violence and Force According to Trinitarian Christianity?
Categories: Islamophobia, Speakers Corner
Blogging Theology 
These lost fools were radicalised by Jay Smith who carefully groomed them. They are now fully-fledged hate preachers. So sad.
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Hate preachers? Lulz ..good one.
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er yes. Have you been living in a cave on Mars?
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Serious question Paul.
How is what Hatun, Lizzie, Jay and co do in regard to Islam any different to what the SC dawah team or the Muslims on this blog do when it comes to Christianity?
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I’m waiting for an answer, Bilal…
What makes Jay Smith, Hatun, Lizzie and Beth Grove ‘hate preachers’ and you, Hashim, Mansur and co and some of your brothers who frequent this blog not?
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There’s a difference between an apologetic and a hate preacher, infact Jay Smith is an apologetic but maybe he fits the category of hate preacher as well due to the fact that he promotes the fear muslims…no wonder he’s considered extreme by some christians…
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I meant “Apologist” instead of “Apologetic”…sorry about that
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Bring your evidence of Jay promoting the “fear of Muslims”.
And even if he did, with all the Islamic terrorist attacks, grooming gangs, growing number of no-go areas and various regressive attitudes all primarily being instigated by Muslims across the west on a regular basis, maybe he has an actual point?
Besides do actually read some of the derogatory terms bandied about by Muslims against Christians on this blog? If you you’re going to be consistent you should be condemning the shenanigans of some of your fellow Muhammadans here who aren’t exactly preaching love for the people of the book.
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Hmmmmm…..Well i remember he said in public that he thinks muslims gonna kill him which i guess you know what he wants to prove, he also talked about how he’s worried about the growing influence of muslims(remember the pork story video in which he says muslims want to impose our code) and the list goes on….this pretty much shows he fits the category of a hate preacher…
You also brought up the case of “Islamic” terror attacks…well that’s the dividing point, there’s a lot of Christian Apologists who are against Islam but they don’t go in public and shout on roads to target the whole Islamic community and preaching how dangerous we are and
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*and saying that we might kill them and also preaching that we’re gonna impose our values on that society
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You also talked about the terms used against christians in this blog, well this was my point when i talk about “Apologetics”…there’s a difference between an Apologist and a hate preacher…Infact i never heard Paul williams or Ijaz or any other muslim apologists shouting on the road that Christians gonna kill us or that Christians want to forcefully impose their values on us and i’ve also never heard them spreading fear of christians in public…
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So basically to keep it simple, he wants to turn the public against the whole muslim community compared to most other Christian Apologists who simply wants to keep it at some kind of religious “debate” level against Islam…so simple common sense tell us this is hate speech..
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And it also explains why some christians view him as too extreme
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I forgot to mention that He also takes the topic of immigration to a fanatical religious level…
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Judging from your comment, you seem to use the Hasty Generalization fallacy very often, which already made me guess what type of answer i expect from you…
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And by the way, can you please which derogatory terms which the authors used against the general christian community on this blog?
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I meant “can you please show me”….sorry i missed typing the words
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That could have something to do with the probability that the guy received death threats? Wasn’t there a recent case of Muslims threatening to stab a kemet guy in speakers corner and other threatening behaviour towards non-Muslims? Besides suggesting somebody might kill him in no way constitutes hate preaching.
And are you saying the majority of Muslims DON’T want to impose their code and values on the west?
The rest of your posts are a load pretentious bs not worth addressing.
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My comment went down below to the bottom please check it…seems i forgot to click on reply…sorry for the inconvenience…
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The irony is that according to the Biblical Jesus, they are the dogs, just like the Syrophoenician woman. They are Gentiles who must take a back seat to the Jews.
As for the KKK, that is even more irony given that the KKK uses the Bible to justify it’s racism. Maybe someone should point this out to these idiots.
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the jews are the masters and the dogs eat near their feet. “great faith” involves that christian women EAT near the feet of the jews.
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notice how jesus is clearly ritualistic. he thinks that it is beneficial/fair/right to give the holy bread to the JEWISH children, but it is not fair/beneficial/right to CAST holy bread at the non-Jewish girl. notice that in Jesus’ view the ANIMAL receives his food by having it CAST at him?
when ones mind is filled with hate and anger one forgets that the poor non Jewish girl knew nothing about Jewish and pagan way of life. Jesus was clearly ritualistic . He clearly thought that Jewish legalism and ritualism puts him above the humble non Jewish woman.
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I am insulted. Will you apologize?
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No. You’re just trolling. I’ve removed your other comment. Please grow up.
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No, there is no need to apologize to someone who is ignorant and cannot provide a coherent and thoughtful response.
You have shown yet again how utterly bankrupt you are in your faith. You Christians always boast about Christian “love” and Jesus’ teachings on it but seldom practice it. Did Jesus say to be nice to non-Christians as long as they are nice to you? Nope. He said to turn the other cheek. But you Christians find that impossible to do, and so you essentially make a tu quoque argument like “I am insulted. Will you aplogize?” LOL, so what you’re saying is you find Jesus’ commands to turn the other cheek to be impossible to follow in the real world?
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How so? Reminding you of what exactly the Bible said? Do not worship man.
Blame the Bible not the Quran. The Quran is just reminding you what the Bible said.
Proof:
Bible.
Isiah 45:5
New International Version
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,
Quran.3:64
Sahih International: Say, “O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you – that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah.” But if they turn away, then say, “Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].”
1) There is only one god: “There is no god save Allah” (47.19).
(2) He is the “creator of everything” (6.102).
“You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
“O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
It is only a pagan that will find the Quran’s teaching about God offensive. Most Jews and some Unitarian Christians agreed with the Quran when it teaches and reminding people to worship only one God of Abraham and not “3 persons 1 God”, that is not in the Bible.
Thanks.
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Erasmus
How so? Reminding you of what exactly the Bible said? Do not worship man.
Blame the Bible not the Quran. The Quran is just reminding you what the Bible said.
Proof:
Bible.
Isiah 45:5
New International Version
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,
Quran.3:64
Sahih International: Say, “O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you – that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah.” But if they turn away, then say, “Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].”
1) There is only one god: “There is no god save Allah” (47.19).
(2) He is the “creator of everything” (6.102).
“You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
“O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
It is only a pagan that will find the Quran’s teaching about God offensive. Most Jews and some Unitarian Christians agreed with the Quran when it teaches and reminding people to worship only one God of Abraham and not “3 persons 1 God”, that is not in the Bible.
Thanks.
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It makes sense to blame certain men for the perceived bad actions of these women. That is, if you hold to a religion that believes women are deficient in intellect.
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Paulus
No religion believes women are deficient in intellect than the religion of Jesus Christ.
Proof:
Silence The Woman!
-“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)
Wives, Submit Yourselves!
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.” (Ephesians 5:22-24)
Women Shall Not Speak
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
Women’s Sorrow
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Genesis 3:16)
Rip Up Pregnant Women
“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)
Comment
-Virgin’s Worth
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
Thanks.
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Intellect,
Do you personally believe women have deficient intellect?
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Yes.
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Intellect,
Do you also drink camel urine when your feeling sick?
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According to Jesus. Not me. I do believe women have intellect like me.
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Your prophet didn’t seem to think so. You’re not going against the so-called words of your beloved property are you?
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#prophet not property.
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I gave you so many verses from your Bible where your God and your prophet Jesus Christ at the same time says women have deficient intellect. Have problem with Jesus Christ first before anyone else when it comes to deficiency in women intellect. Charity begins at home.
Thanks.
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Your tu quoque fallacy aside for now. Where does Jesus say women have deficient intelligence, dummy?
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Here it is.
Women Shall Not Speak
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35
Your insults will not prevent me from my crusade against worshiping man, God-man, creature-God like cow, creature God like man, monkey, Haile Selaissie, Jesus Christ, Sai Baba, Ali etc.
Thanks.
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Uhh yeah those are Paul’s in words 1 Corinthians, not Jesus’.
Try again.
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You Muslims are a strange bunch. Whenever you’re confronted and challenged on objectionable issues in your sacred sources. You start waving the tu quoque card and for some reason seem to think you’re doing yourselves and your religion a favour. This is just another example. Instead of asking yourselves the question “why is our prophet, the so-called greatest example for humanity, making such a harsh idiotic misogynistic and demonstrably false statement?”, you deviate and run straight to the bible in a desperate attempt at justifying Muhammed’s nonsense.
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“hose are Paul’s in words 1 Corinthians, not Jesus’”
Paul claims to have received the gospel that was not preached to anyone straight from Jesus. So yea those are Jesus’ words.
Besides are you gonna tell us that if Paul said those things, Jesus ain’t cool with that?
It’s amazing these crosstians whenever confronted with inconsistency they cry out ‘tu quoque fallacy, tu quoque fallacy, tu quoque fallacy!!!!!!’
and whenever they smell inconsistency then they cry out ‘You’re being inconsistent!’ which funnily enough is an inconsistency in itself.
What a pathetic display.
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Alan Partridge you silly Moonlim,
No those are not Jesus’ words, dummy. This isn’t Islam. Paul wrote his epistles under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. They were not dictated to him word for word like it’s alleged about your silly Quran.
And besides that passage pseudo-Intellect cited says nothing about women being intellectually deficient.
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Dear crosstian loser,
Yet another ‘reply’ that doesn’t answer my question. Your potato from tarsus got his gospel from Jesus:
Gal. 1:11-12 says: “For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ”
If he got the gospel from jesus as he claims then those are eventually jesus’ words.
Even if they weren’t, paul is an apostle according to you so whatever he says in his letters is scripture and hence Jesus approves. End of story.
“They were not dictated to him word for word like it’s alleged about your silly Quran.”
The sad thing is we know exactly where the Quran is coming from and who wrote it down.
Your NT is written by mostly unknown potatoes.
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belieber
“he sad thing is we know exactly where the Quran is coming from and who wrote it down.”
True, we do know exactly where the quran came from – pagan fairy tales, christian apocrypha, and rabbinic talmudic speculation. Sadly, we have no idea who actually wrote the quran down – they are not signed, so whoever did it could have added all kinds of politically or religiously convenient rubbish.
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Coco the dancing monkey,
Will you answer why your Bible borrows from pagan mythology? You have been avoiding this question for a while. What are you afraid of little monkey?
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qb
It doesn’t. The quran does. Sorry.
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Lol, someone’s in denial! Shall I show the evidence again you simian loser? Maybe your fellow losers Cerberus and Bad Samaritan can help you, since you obviously seem helpless.
I’ll post the examples again later when I get home, InshaAllah.
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Buahahaha you again. I was wondering where you were. I missed slapping you around.
They were not signed argument strikes again!
Dear Lord. I already told you that 33000 Muslims (including Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman) gave approval of the Quran. And you come up with an invented argument that holds ZERO credibility.
As if not having the name at the end of the book makes it unreliable. So the 33000 Muslims who approved just don’t matter he lol.
Funny seeing how many of the NT books don’t have the authors’ names in them. And yet you have the audacity to make your moronic claim. On top of which having the ‘signature’ means absolutely nothing if there are no people to affirm whether that person wrote it or not. Take a look at 2 Peter. No one believes Peter wrote it even though it claims to be written by Peter. So much for your sign argument.
“Sadly, we have no idea who actually wrote the quran down”
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
Abu Bakr said (to me). ‘You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ). So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur’an and collect it in one book.” By Allah If they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur’an. Then I said to Abu Bakr, “How will you do something which Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) did not do?” Abu Bakr replied, “By Allah, it is a good project.” Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until Allah opened my chest for what He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and `Umar. So I started looking for the Qur’an and collecting it from (what was written on) palme stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat at-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The Verse is: ‘Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty..(till the end of Surat-Baraa’ (at-Tauba) (9.128-129). Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Qur’an remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with `Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of `Umar. (Sahih al-Bukhari 4986)
Lying is your specialty it seems.
” pagan fairy tales, christian apocrypha, and rabbinic talmudic speculation”
So when Jude quotes from the apocryphal book of Enoch you also condemn it right???
When Matthew quotes from the book of Nathan yo would condemn that as well right cus that book is not found in the OT.
Btw the Quran doesn’t quote them. It’s not plagiarizing like your NT potatoes do.
Just because something is found in sources which are not contained in your comicbook doesn’t make them untrue. If you claim that Jesus breathing into clay birds and giving them life is a made up story then the burden of proof is on you. Prove those are made up. You can’t. You are using the same arguments that atheists use against the bible.
What pagan fairy tales? You mean the ones that Paul quotes twice?
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Here we go Coco and the other Christian clowns. Here are examples of pagan mythology in the Bible:
1. Isaiah 13:21 refers to mythical beast known as “satyrs” which were common in Greek mythology.
2. Daniel 7:9ff incorporates Canaanite pagan imagery to describe as an aged man with white hair. Scholars have known for a long time that this myth is copied from pagan beliefs about the deities El and Baal (https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2016/09/16/the-book-of-daniel/).
3. Revelation 12 borrows from pagan imagery to describe the “woman clothed with the sun” and the “red dragon” which tried to devour her child. Scholars see parallels between this “vision” and the pagan stories about the birth of the sun-god Apollo (https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/the-book-of-revelation/#_ednref95).
Now answer, if you have the guts.
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belieber
Where is your evidence that “33000” muslims gave their approval to your holey book, and why should I respect anyone who claims that a book with obvious plagiarisms from human sources is divine? All it means is tat 33000 muslims were ignorant and gullible.
As I said, no one knows the names of the men who wrote down the words of your goat – the earliest copies are anonymous.
Could you show me where the Ibn Thabit copies are?
“So when Jude quotes from the apocryphal book of Enoch you also condemn it right???
When Matthew quotes from the book of Nathan yo would condemn that as well right cus that book is not found in the OT.”
Classic moronic missing the significance. NT writers use allegory for teaching purposes and don’t claim they are citing the LITERAL ETERNAL WORD OF GOD. The quran claims to be the LITERAL ETERNAL WORD OF GOATYGOD yet plagiarizes pagan fables, christian apocrypha and rabbinic talmudic speculation.
I blockquoted this because it is so unbeliebably dumb.LOL!!
No, muslims make the claim that the quran is the truth and the literal word of goaty oneness. It did not appear in the world until the 7th century and seems to contain materials written and in existence by human beings prior to its existence. The reasonable conclusion is that the quran plagiarizes man made stories that existed before islam, the less reasonable conclusion is that the quran is divine. The burden of proof is on you
You just can’t think. YOu are an idiot. LOL!!
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qb
“Now answer, if you have the guts.”
You moron – you linked to your own stupid work. That is circular you fool.
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Coco the howling monkey said:
“You moron – you linked to your own stupid work. That is circular you fool.”
LOL!! You’re really struggling with this, aren’t you? Awww, so sad…
If you weren’t such a lazy moron, you would click on the links and see that I have given scholarly references. Now quit stalling you cowardly simian and answer. Why does your Bible borrow from pagan mythology?
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qb
You stupid moron. Make a point or go back to beating your wife, stoning adulterers,murdering apostates and flinging gays off skyscrapers.
I’m not interested in your stupid blog nor its stupid articles. You are a moron, your blog is going to be moronic, and only morons like belieber and heathcliff would read it.
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Lol, Coco is pissed! You can tell from the childish rant. Listen, howler monkey, you are a pathetic ambassador for your religion. Your Bible has pagan mythology in it, and you are avoiding this embarrassing problem like the plague. Why do you worship a pagan Canaanite deity, Coco? Is he the god of loser howler monkeys?
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qb
Not pissed at all stupid. If you want to make a point, make it. Your blog is dumb, you are dumb. That doesn’t make me angry,it makes me laugh.
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Rotfl, oh this is too hilarious! Coco is like a 10 year old throwing a temper tantrum!
Still no answer about the Bible paganism, I see. Maybe you should go back to your elementary school, Coco. School is important for little kids. 😉
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The point has been made, howling Coco. Now either man-up and answer the question or get lost and grow up a little more. You’re an embarrassment to your religion. Hahahaha!
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O boy! Bitchslap number …. I don’t even know how many times I smacked you to be honest.
“All it means is tat 33000 muslims were ignorant and gullible”
I mean really? This is the best you have? Just pure denial. Pathetic! We have absolutely NOTHING from any apostles of Jesus who approved the NT. What a joke.
“Could you show me where the Ibn Thabit copies are?”
Could you show me where the Mark, Matthew, Luke, John copies are?
The Quran was put together by the Prophet’s closest companions and made copies of them and send out to 4 cites. People memorized it. It’s impossible for thousands of people to memorize large portions of the Quran and then all of a sudden magically forget everything.
We have nothing like that of crosstianity. Just some random potatoes writing nonsense with no eyewitness accounts. No one who can validate what they say. You just have to take their word (not God’s word) for it.
It’s unbelievable. I gave you the Hadith even then you just choose to ignore it. Who wrote Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Hebrews, etc? Who wrote them potato? Even your 2 Peter is a forgery! It says it’s written by Peter but it’s not written by Peter. So what on earth does your self invented ‘sign’ argument even mean???
Nothing. If there are no people to affirm it really comes from him then wth does it matter? The fact that 2Peter is not written by Peter even though it makes that claim proves you argument is pure bullshit. It’s YOUR pathetic book remember?
“NT writers use allegory for teaching purposes and don’t claim they are citing the LITERAL ETERNAL WORD OF GOD”
What a pathetic way to get around the problem. Allegory, really?
They quote apocryphal sources you idiot. End of story. Paul quotes from pagan sources and claims his ‘gospel’ to come from Jesus himself.
If you believe the bible is the Word of God then how on earth doesn’t that make it the ETERNAL WORD OF GOD? So God doesn’t know until a certain point in time? Every Word of God is eternal you idiot. Is the Torah for example (that God GAVE to Moses) not part of the eternal word of God? Yet it contains pagan stories.
This moronic crosstian ‘argument’ that you crosstians have come up with is without a doubt one of the most STUPID ones by far.
“No, muslims make the claim that the quran is the truth and the literal word of goaty oneness. It did not appear in the world until the 7th century and seems to contain materials written and in existence by human beings prior to its existence. The reasonable conclusion is that the quran plagiarizes man made stories that existed before islam, the less reasonable conclusion is that the quran is divine. The burden of proof is on you”
So you couldn’t prove anything. You just bitch around a lil bit to appear to make a point but you fail.
You are the one who is making the claim that the Quran copied from those sources and that those stories are false. You make that claim so no you deceptive lil shit, the burden of proof is on you.
I don’t care about your ‘reasonable conclusion’. My reasonable conclusion is you’re full of shit.
O and btw how is the oneness of the Father OR the Son OR the HS different from ours?
Buahahahaha. I can’t believe you still keep going with your pathetic oneness argument. How many times do I have to bitchslap you kid?
“You moron – you linked to your own stupid work. That is circular you fool.”
Which is another way of saying:
“I’m busted and my comicbook can’t stand that criticism so I’ll just throw something out there to not appear embarrassed even his answer is base on my self invented arguments. Why does everyone smack me around here all the time?”
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belieber
You are so sad and pathetic – you’ve bitchslapped no one except – probably – for your own wife according to the example of your prophet.
YOU made a claim, moron, that 33000 muslims witnessed this “miracle” – where’s the evidence?
“Could you show me where the Mark, Matthew, Luke, John copies are?”
So, so, stupid. You have claimed that your holey book is uncorrupted and is a pristine copy of the original – you don’t have the original, so your claim is as much nonsense as the nonsense book you are making claims about.
” It’s impossible for thousands of people to memorize large portions of the Quran and then all of a sudden magically forget everything.”
Again, this is an extravagant claim that requires evidence – you don;t have any. Science disagrees with you – tell the same story to 33000 people and the chances are, they will tell 33000 different stories to their friends. You can’t validate any your ridiculous claims Idiot.
“It’s unbelievable. I gave you the Hadith even then you just choose to ignore it.”
What’s unbeliebable is that you think that citing a book of hadith that was constructed 200 years after the events, taken from sources that no longer exist is somehow a slam dunk. That makes you a gullible idiot. And you are arguing in circles – the quran was written down by Ibn Thabit because the hadith says it was written by thabit. LOL!! You can’t get any more dumb.
Christians claim that the NT is a book that relates events through the experience of eye witnesses – there is plenty of reason to beliebe that these accounts are largely accurate. Modern historians of the NT agree with me.
“What a pathetic way to get around the problem. Allegory, really?
They quote apocryphal sources you idiot. End of story. Paul quotes from pagan sources and claims his ‘gospel’ to come from Jesus himself.”
Sorry you are unable to reason logically – must be because you are an imbecile. Paul relates jesus’ word through allegory, thus, the teaching is inerrant even if he employs allegory. Your claim is that there are pagan stories, christian heretical apocrypha, and rabbinic religious speculation contained within the eternal quran when we know without the shadow of a doubt that these works come form pre-islamic pagan arabia, or were written anywhere between the 2nd and 6th centuries.
YOUR GOAT GOD PLAGIARIZED PAGAN STORIES AND YOUR PROPHET CLAIMED THEY WERE REVEALED!! HELLO!!! NOT GOD!!!! NOT A PROPHET!!!
“O and btw how is the oneness of the Father OR the Son OR the HS different from ours?”
LOL!!! Sad, belieber. God’s triune oneness is different to ours in self-explanatory ways. Your hairy goat god is just like any other goat in his oneness. Get used to it – you worship a creature.
“I’m busted and my comicbook can’t stand that criticism so I’ll just throw something out there to not appear embarrassed even his answer is base on my self invented arguments. Why does everyone smack me around here all the time?”
No, it’s a straighforward way of saying that qb is an idiot who used links to his own stupid articles to support the arguments if his articles, you moron.
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“according to the example of your prophet.”
Can you provide the evidence? I can already smell that one hadith coming narrated by Aisha. That has been refuted so many times. And btw I don’t kill women for no reason like the biblical god.
“You have claimed that your holey book is uncorrupted and is a pristine copy of the original”
Well that’s what I believe yes. We have MANY lines of transmission going back to the prophet. You think that’s not good enough cus you want the original. But if you’re claiming that it’s not the same as Uthman’s version than the burden of proof is on you to prove it. Which you can’t . Again.
“YOU made a claim, moron, that 33000 muslims witnessed this “miracle” – where’s the evidence?”
Google it yourself loser.
You seem to forget I gave you the Hadith with Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. That’s like saying Peter, Matthew and John agreed with the NT. Which they didn’t!
“Again, this is an extravagant claim that requires evidence – you don;t have any. Science disagrees with you – tell the same story to 33000 people and the chances are, they will tell 33000 different stories to their friends. You can’t validate any your ridiculous claims Idiot.”
Apparently you have trouble reading (and counting for that matter).
Firstly the Muslims MEMORIZED the Quran (like in their prayers for example). They didn’t just hear it ones and that was that. Further more those Muslims AFFIRMED the Quran. Hello?????
Can you read what I said? The Quran that Uthman had was AFFIRMED by his committee. If they all differed how the hell can they confirm it?
“No, it’s a straighforward way of saying that qb is an idiot who used links to his own stupid articles to support the arguments if his articles, you moron.”
This made zero sense (which is nothing new coming from you). So what if he links to his articles. Your job is to refute it. Not throw out the pathetic ‘ow you’re linking your articles so therefor you are wrong’. Wtf is this?
“Sorry you are unable to reason logically – must be because you are an imbecile”
How many times do I have to tell you that I am a Muslim, not a crosstian idiot.
“Your claim is that there are pagan stories, christian heretical apocrypha, and rabbinic religious speculation contained within the eternal quran when we know without the shadow of a doubt that these works come form pre-islamic pagan arabia, or were written anywhere between the 2nd and 6th centuries.”
I said that even if the stories sound the same as in those sources then so what? Can you prove they are wrong? No you cannot. Case closed.
” there is plenty of reason to beliebe that these accounts are largely accurate”
Except there is not. There are no eyewitness accounts contained in the gospels. So sad!
Matthew copied from Mark. So Matthew isn’t the writer of the gospel according to Matthew cus why on earth would an eyewitness go to a non-eyewitness and copy his book. Luke copied Mark too. No one believes John wrote John except blind idiots who are desperate to hang on to what some of their early church daddies said. Most of the books in the NT are written by unknown potatoes. Even if they got their info from eyewitnesses that still doesn’t mean shit cus they themselves are anonymous works and hence could be making shit up lol. Not that scholars believe that what you have are eyewitness accounts anyways.
“What’s unbeliebable is that you think that citing a book of hadith that was constructed 200 years after the events, taken from sources that no longer exist is somehow a slam dunk.”
We have an oral tradition and hadith science. Different people with different chains of narrators all saying the same thing. So most of them are reliable.
The OT is all oral tradition idiot. With MANY more hundreds of years.
We have an oral tradition which is know to us (we have their names, we know who those people were, were they reliable, how good was their memory, what did others say about one particular narrator, etc).
You have an oral tradition which is not known.
We can trace back every word of the Quran all the way back to Muhammad via multiple lines of transmissions. Can you trace back ONE word that Jesus allegedly uttered back to Jesus?
No! That’s exactly why your biblical (most of the crosstians) scholars are ripping apart your comicbook as we speak. They are now saying that the ‘I am’ statements were not uttered by Jesus.
Sad panda.
“there is plenty of reason to beliebe that these accounts are largely accurate. Modern historians of the NT agree with me.”
Pure bullshit! What a lying scumbag. It’s exactly the opposite. And the fact that Bart Ehraman in his debate with Craig Evans said this and Craig couldn’t refute it just goes to show what a joke your holey bible is.
And how about your sign argument he???
Forgot about that one? How does your sign argument work when 2Peter is a forgery?
“God’s triune oneness is different to ours in …”
Everyone here knows you deliberately answer a question which I did not ask loser.
I’m not talking about your trinity. I am talking about each individual person.
How is the oneness of the Father OR the Son OR the HS different from ours?
Not:
How is the oneness of the triune pagan god different from ours?
If you’ll answer one question then just answer this for the Love of God:
How is the oneness of the Father OR the Son OR the HS different from ours?
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And joel my lil shit starts bitching in 3, 2, 1 ….
“So so so so so so so so duuuuuuuumb”
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“Classic moronic missing the significance. NT writers use allegory for teaching purposes and don’t claim they are citing the LITERAL ETERNAL WORD OF GOD. ”
hey piggy, did the literal female wisdom of yhwh become flesh and site targumic interpretations of the hebrew text? so what was the literal female wisdom of yhwh which became SHEmale siting targumic renderings of original hebrew? how about the fictional stories in the old testament? was jesus /logos believing in them as LITERAL history?
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“Christians claim that the NT is a book that relates events through the experience of eye witnesses – there is plenty of reason to beliebe that these accounts are largely accurate. ”
let me just slap you with this question. you said matthew is an “eyewitness”
let me define for you “eyewitness”
eyewitness
ˈʌɪwɪtnəs/Submit
noun
a person who has seen something happen and can give a first-hand description of it.
matthew wrote :
The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection ande went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
questions for piggy jelly
1. why matthew did not relate his interaction with the dead saint? if he saw them leave, didn’t he shit himself and tell his readers how scared he was?
2. i read similar stories in Hansel and grettal
3.every excuse you can use to defend the story in matthew, can you lend support to miracles in other religions using the same excuses?
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jelly
https://celsus.blog/2017/09/02/review-of-craig-keener-otho-a-targeted-comparison-with-emphasis-on-the-citation-of-eyewitness-sources-and-textual-independence-of-historical-biographers/
please don’t lie here about your gospels. nearly everyone knows that those texts are not based on eyewitness testimony. don’t lie any more. you can repeat like a DOG many times, but the truth is that your texts are written by unknown anonymous people .
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Hmmmmm….i guess you’re the type of guy who likes to generalize…
Well let us assume if he was threatened to be killed by a particular muslim, then why should he generalize against whe whole muslim community and in case you didn’t know, he was talking in the context of muslim immigration as well when he said that statement….
You also talked about imposing our values, well maybe you’re talking about exremists but as far as i know the majority fits well in the western society(according to last year’s poll) though i must admit that there are some incompatibilities in terms of values but still they tend to live peacefully….i guess you’re gonna bring up the “Sharia law” argument, well there’s a difference between “accepting” something and “imposing” something…so saying the “Majority” of muslims want to impose their values is simply inaccurate…
I don’t sew how exactly i seem pretentious and if that’s the case then you’ll have to deal with it because that’s the way i put my comments…
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Samaritan, Why don’t we play a little swapping game? Let us assume there’s a bunch of christian minority in a particular muslim country and also let us assume there’s a tiny minority of extremists within the christian community who conducts bombings sometimes…so one day a Radical Muslim Preacher takes on the street and start targetting the whole christian community for the actions of a few…he starts yelling that christians want to kill him, christians want to impose their way of life or christians are too dangerous and we don’t want any more of them in this country otherwise they would kill me or whatever and he also instill fear of christians in the general muslim population…So, you would call this hate preaching because he’s unfairly generalizing against a whole community right?
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Samaritan, those were my replies…sorry for the inconvenience by the way…
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Samaritan, by the way you ignored my question, so let me ask it again because i’m interested to know about it, can you please show me which derogatory terms which the authors of this blog has used against the general christian community?
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And you called my comments “bs” when you’re the one who brought up a hypothesis to defend Jay Smith and ignoring the other points that i’ve written…on top of that your hypothesis doesn’t help Jay Smith at all…
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Sorry for the typo by the way, i meant “see” instead of “sew”…
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“”you please show me which derogatory terms which the authors of this blog has used against the general christian community?””
There’s Atlas going around calling Christians “Crosstians” for a start. People like Mr heathcliff, Quranblog and Burhanuddin love to call Christians on this site pagans and other insulting terms. Just go back and read some of their replies to Joel, Paulus, Erasmus and me.
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Samaritan, i do agree they shouldn’t offend you and your friends by calling you those names…
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If you don’t like our responses then perhaps you shouldn’t have big mouths yourselves!
When you can’t take the heat then you shouldn’t dish it out!
Respect goes both ways. Not that you’ll ever understand.
If joel goes around associating Allah with a goat (which is extreme blasphemy) then that kid needs to be put in its place.
No one is forcing you to chat with us. You can just not come to this blog. Trust me, we’ll do just fine without you.
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Atlas, you’re talking to Samaritan right?
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Indeed.
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Atlas,
You, Quranblog, Mr Heathcliff and Burhanuddin are terrible ambassadors for your religion.
Muhammad and the sahabah would be proud your behaviour.
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Lol, thus is coming from a guy who uses arguments like taqiyya, mongol etc. that he copied from places like JihadWatch! Who cares if YOU think we’re bad “ambassadors”? You’re a bigoted, ignorant loser who doesn’t actually want to learn about Islam and Muslims, but rather to demonize them. Why should we care what you think?
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Great way to evade what I said.
If you show respect then I’ll show respect.
But don’t even think for a moment that I’ll turn the other cheek and allow myself to be beaten down by you losers.
You go around and throw out your usual ‘we are love, jesus is loooove, we are all all loving, we don’t hate’ propaganda. How about you live up to those self proclaimed titles.
I gave up on the Christian love message a LONG time ago. You are one of the most vile, toxic and despicable people on the face of the earth.
I’ll gladly be proven wrong on that. But I wont keep my hopes up.
Jesus would be proud (seeing how he send two bears to shred 42 boys to pieces, but being vile and toxic is the next best thing I guess).
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I’ve noticed that people like Bad Samaritan will complain and whine about Muslims but will never admonish their own. Why doesn’t bad Samaritan say anything against people like Coco or cerbie and all the abuse and language they hurl at Muslims. What a bunch of hypocritical whiners!
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Quranblog,
I don’t need to demonise anybody here, you and your fellow Muhammadanists do a good enough job of that all by yourselves.
And I don’t throw the taqiyya term around lightly as I fully understand that you Muslims have mostly abandoned the use of deception as it isn’t as effective a ploy as it used to be given the advancement of modern technology i.e. the internet making your sacred sources far more readily accessible.
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Atlas,
If we didn’t love you we wouldn’t care about you following a false religion, founded by a false prophet, preaching a false God, according to a false book.
We’re here because we care and don’t want to see you end up in hell.
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And we think the same about you. Your religion is pagan, founded by mostly unknown potatoes based on an oral tradition which is unknown. The trinity is pagan and a belief in three gods no matter how much you claim it’s monotheism. We want you to believe in one God, not three in one and then to throw in there the word person and the word being and pretend that that is monotheism.
The man-god concept is pagan as well and is another massive self contradiction. We want you to leave these pagan belief as well and accept true monotheism.
I don’t actually buy your love nonsense. So just save it. You cry out your love propaganda and then use smug, vile comments about our belief.
Like I said, respect goes both ways.
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“I don’t need to demonise anybody here, you and your fellow Muhammadanists do a good enough job of that all by yourselves.
And I don’t throw the taqiyya term around lightly as I fully understand that you Muslims have mostly abandoned the use of deception as it isn’t as effective a ploy as it used to be given the advancement of modern technology i.e. the internet making your sacred sources far more readily accessible.”
What a vile and disgusting filth you are.
We don’t deceive and lie to people to convert them to our religion and have never done so. That’s something your cult does.
If there is anyone that uses taqiyya then it’s you and your false prophet paul who pretends to be a jew to a jew, under the Law to someone who is under the Law, not under the Law to someone who is not under the Law to win converts. In other words be a chameleon.
Western losers have used the taqiyya card as a hijacked word. You people are good at that.
Shove the taqiyya card up your ass.
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Atlas,
We get it, you Muslims worship ONE god. Just a shame for you it’s a false God.
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Actually, Allah (swt) is the One, True God. You guys actually worship a Canaanite deity with white hair. Now that’s a false god.
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Wow, such a shame a soul is wasted on the waste that is crosstianity.
Now go to sleep. Jesus loves you kid.
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How ironic, and yet not that shocking! The tables are turned on Bad Samaritan and his false religion!
It’s not surprising to a Muslim that the Bible contains evidence of the Israelites’ worship of Baal, given that the Quran speaks about how the Israelites turned to the worship of Baal. Allah (swt) sent the prophet Elias (pbuh) to bring them back from their idolatry:
” So also was Elias among those sent (by Us). Behold, he said to his people, “Will ye not fear (Allah)? “Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,- “Allah, your Lord and Cherisher and the Lord and Cherisher of your fathers of old?””
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Quranblog,
Sorry to disappoint you but Allah is not the one true God. Allah is a false moon deity that pre-dates Islam which the pagan arabs worshiped.
Allah is actually Baal. You Muslims are worshipping Satan and don’t even realise it.
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Nope, you guys worship an old guy with white hair. In actual fact, this deity is part of the myth involving Baal, so ironically, it’s you who follows Satan.
No scholar believes the moongod myth that you guys invented.
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The funny thing is that even the crossdressing pervert david wood admitted that the moon god is basically bullshit. Coming from him that’s saying something.
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ALLAH is called the ever living. The triune god has experiential feelings of dying i.e while your god was dying ALLAH was everliving i.e DEATH does not TAKE over ALLAH while it does your god.
as for baal
well,
quote :
There are still a few other traces that are easy to spot in the theophoric names to be found in the bible. Gideon is called Jerubbaal (Jdg 6:32) and is referred to as Jerubbosheth in 2 Sam 11:21 (with Baal replaced by “shame”). Jonathan has a son called Mephibosheth (2 Sam 4:4) who is also called Meribbaal (1 Chr 8:34). Saul had a son called Ishbaal (1 Chr 8:33) transformed into Ishbosheth (2 Sam 2:8). Baal names existed in the Hebrew culture until editors thought it better to censor them. The god of death, Mot (known from Ugarit) also appears in theophoric names. There is one Azmaveth = Azmot (“strong as death) 2 Sam 23:31. The name Meremot (Neh 12:3) appears as Meraiot (Neh 12:15).
what did faiz say about neutering ?
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Samaritan
Quranblog,
Sorry to disappoint you but Allah is not the one true God. Allah is a false moon deity that pre-dates Islam which the pagan arabs worshiped.
Allah is actually Baal. You Muslims are worshipping Satan and don’t even realise it.
I say;
Quran 41:37
Sahih International:
And of His signs are the night and day and the sun and moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or to the moon, but prostate to Allah , who created them, if it should be Him that you worship.
Pickthall:
And of His portents are the night and the day and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon; but prostrate to Allah Who created them, if it is in truth Him Whom ye worship
You are ignorant when it comes to Islam. You do not know you are ignorant and that is insanity by depending on sources related to Robert Spencer, Sam Shamoun, David Wood, Nabeel etc. who are not Islamic scholars to learn Islam. It is shame; you and Joel are embarrassing yourselves. I suggest you learn Islam from the following Christians who are Islamic scholars.
-Dr. John L. Esposito of the Georgetown University.
-Dr. Graig Considine
Non Muslims scholars
Karyn Armstrong, a former nun.
Lesley Hazelton, a Jew.
They will tell you moon god and satan cannot be used against Islam because Islam is clearly against those. To insist on moon god and satan as Islam is embarrassing to the one who repeats such nonsense.
When thou dost read the Quran, seek God’s protection from Satan the rejected one. No authority has he over those who believe and put their trust in their Lord. His authority is over those only, who take him as patron and who join partners with God. (16: 98–100)
Verily Satan is an enemy to you: so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his adherents,that they may become Companions of the Blazing Fire. (35: 6)
Thanks.
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Samaritan
Arab Christians worship Allah. Jews of Arab decent like Palestinian Jews worship Allah.
If you do not know this, then your ignorance is insanity.
Thanks.
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How ironic, and yet not that shocking! The tables are turned on Bad Samaritan and his false religion!
It’s not surprising to a Muslim that the Bible contains evidence of the Israelites’ worship of Baal, given that the Quran speaks about how the Israelites turned to the worship of Baal. Allah (swt) sent the prophet Elias (pbuh) to bring them back from their idolatry:
” So also was Elias among those sent (by Us). Behold, he said to his people, “Will ye not fear (Allah)? “Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,- “Allah, your Lord and Cherisher and the Lord and Cherisher of your fathers of old?””
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Dr Dan Brown in one of his books (can’t remember the exact one) says ‘Nothing in christianity is original. Its description of Yahweh bears no difference from the Greek description of Zeus. Hardly is the tale of him dying on a cross any different from the pagan tales of Greece’.
Mr Brown is a christian. Perhaps, you should direct your rage towards him.
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