“Surely Allah upholds the heavens and the earth lest they come to naught…”
(Surah Fatir 35:41)
In this image provided by NASA, ESA, and the Hubble SM4 ERO Team, a stellar jet in the Carina Nebula is pictured in Space NASA, ESA, and the Hubble SM4 ERO Team via Getty Images
Today’ Independent reports:
Our universe shouldn’t exist, scientists say.
The most elite scientists in the world are still struggling to find why exactly our universe didn’t destroy itself as soon as it came into existence. That’s what science says should have happened – but it clearly hasn’t, since you’re here reading this, as far as we know.
At the beginning of the universe, according to the standard model, there equal amounts of matter and anti-matter. The trouble with that is that they would each have annihilated each other, leaving none of the matter that surrounds us today.
Researchers have been frantically looking for some difference between matter and anti-matter that could explain why the universe is still around. But they have tried a range of different possibilities – that they have different mass, electric charge, or something else – but have found no difference.
That has led researchers to question why the universe is still around at all.
“All of our observations find a complete symmetry between matter and antimatter, which is why the universe should not actually exist,” explained Christian Smorra, the author of a new study conducted at CERN.
“An asymmetry must exist here somewhere but we simply do not understand where the difference is. What is the source of the symmetry break?”
The latest possibility was matter and anti-matter’s different magnetism. But new research shows that they are identical in that way too – lending further mystery to the question of why the universe is still around at all.
Blogging Theology 
There is no difference between equal amounts of Matter and Anti-Matter.
But we already knew this…….
“We have built the heaven/Firmament with strength and indeed, it is we who create the VASTNESS OF SPACE. And We have spread out the earth, how Excellent Spreader (thereof) are We!…..
…..And all things, We have CREATED IN PAIRS, that you may reflect (upon the Grace of Allah).” ~ Qur’an 51:47-49
Subhanallah!!!
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The earth isn’t “spread out”.
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@ Joel,
Don’t be such a literalist…..get the point.
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Joel,
51:48 actually refers to the earth being spread out in a WIDE EXPANSE, and laid out as a bedding or flooring, which supports all that resides above it, (i.e. flora, fauna, mountains, etc.)
One could say, that scientifically speaking, the earth’s crust is spread out over the Mantle, which is in turn spread out over the outer and inner core.
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Allah is the “excellent spreader” haha.
I didn’t even know what that means. Someone really needs to create a better English translation someday
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Ibn Issam.
I wonder why you take created in pairs literally but not the prior verse. Why is vastness of space literal but not the next sentence? Is there any grammatical reason?
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Paulus,
Your question is valid, and I agree, that the translation is lacking or may sound funny or unusual to English speakers. But in Arabic the phrase is very beautiful and makes perfect sense.
The Arabic word “Farashnaha” can be translated as “spread out,” or “laid out” as in a bed, to pave, to cover, etc.; while a related word “Firasha” provides further understanding of the meaning to be similar to a bed, mattress, bedspread, cushion, carpet, etc. These words, when taken in combination with other Arabic descriptive words that the Qur’an uses in relation to “al-Ard” the earth, give the impression that the contexts is in a figurative reference to God’s creation of a wide and spacious expanse of earth (see here for more discussion: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=1737.0 ).
In the past, American cattle ranchers might have said that they owned a thousand acre “spread” by which they meant in reference to the width and expanse of their property from one end to the other, (not that the land was literally spread out like butter on a roll). So it is clear that the Qur’an is speaking in a figurative way about the earths wide spread or expanse which has been created by Allah, and this understanding is in agreement with the previous verse in 51:47 which refers to the vastness of space, followed by 51:48 and the earths wide expanse. While non-Arabic speakers who don’t take the time to study may have a hard time with such a wording, this reference is easy to understand for Arabic speakers.
Some translators have tried to make a better translation, but I think it is one of those cases where the English language just cannot fully contain depth of meaning within the original Arabic, and therefore there is something lost in any translation to English. That may sound like an overstatement, but if you understand Arabic in comparison to English you will find that it is a very true statement of fact. Also, the understanding of the verse in question is partly related to understanding the meaning and terminology used other verses as well, and that is not a translational issue but rather it is a matter of Qur’anic study.
Hope that helps
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numan translates it as
“…furnished it …..laid it down….”
farsh = comfortable flooring
“how awesome we are at making it smooth and relaxing ” and a place where you can find comfort like the mahad of a mother .
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Hey Coco,
The earth does not have “four corners” or “pillars” either! But your Bible says it does. Hmmm…
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How then does it relate to Allah? This particular attribute is only figurative then?
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Ibn Issam, very well description about the spreading…accurate and poetic at the same time.
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ibn issam
“51:48 actually refers to the earth being spread out in a WIDE EXPANSE, and laid out as a bedding or flooring, which supports all that resides above it, (i.e. flora, fauna, mountains, etc.)”
Actually, the text says absolutely nothing even remotely like that. It says that the earth is “spread out” and that’s just about it. If you are seeing these other words in the text, the you are hallucinating.
“One could say, that scientifically speaking, the earth’s crust is spread out over the Mantle, which is in turn spread out over the outer and inner core.”
Actually, the text says absolutely nothing like that. It says nothing about “crust”, mantle,inner, or outer core. If you are seeing these words in the text then you are hallucinating.
And no, the earth was not created by being spread out – can you show me the scientists who agree with allh that the earth was created by being spread out?
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Joel,
Clearly you missed the point of my last post. I mentioned the following: “….the understanding of the verse in question is partly related to understanding the meaning and terminology used OTHER verses as well, and that is not a translational issue but rather it is a matter of Qur’anic study.I am not reading into the text, I am reading it in light of other Qur’anic verses, as well as understanding the meaning of the original Arabic. Its funny how when Christians read there texts, in light of other scripture it is no problem but when a Muslim does the same, people like you cannot seem to abide by it, because it ruins your agenda of misinterpreting the meaning of the Qur’an.
The real problem is that you are insisting on the literal meaning of the word “Spread” in ENGLISH, when the actual word used “Farashnaha” is in ARABIC, and which carries different and nuanced meanings. Try to understand the difference.
In regard to my comment about the crust, mantle etc. I was only speculating… however the verse does refer figuratively to earths “wide spread or expanse” which has been created by Allah.
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Ibn Issam, talking about being a literalist, i guess the earth has pillars…
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Shaad,
“For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.” ~ 1 Samuel 2:8
Talk about an unscientific theory. Good point – exactly!!!
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ibn issam
“The real problem is that you are insisting on the literal meaning of the word “Spread” in ENGLISH, when the actual word used “Farashnaha” is in ARABIC, and which carries different and nuanced meanings. “
What is it about the muslims on this site and an inability to track a consistent logical idea?
You are the guys trying to imply that the quranic verses you are quoting are somehow scientifically relevant. Yet, in the very next comment, you claim that these verses are not to be taken literally.
Which is it? Science happens to be largely literal which is what makes it science.
Regardless, your comment merely proves that the quran is a bunch of nonsense.
Repent.
NOW!!!
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shaad
“Ibn Issam, talking about being a literalist, i guess the earth has pillars…”
issam is implying scientific relevance in quranic verses – science is pretty literal.
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A lack of understanding in this instance doesn’t mean it will forever remain unexplained. There was once a widespread belief that the earth was flat and that the earth was the centre of the universe.
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Future science of the gaps
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I wonder if people said that when looking into flat earth claims…
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do you
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Do I dance? No. Nor should I. People get hurt when I dance.
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a-ha
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I don’t dance to A-ha.
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You said so
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Is there a song reference there?
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smells like
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Cake?
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science
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Science cake. Heston will make one.
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dream factory
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I have no idea if that’s a song or a band.
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a way of life
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Eh?
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Nice to see the Christians playing dumb as usual… or are they playing 🤔
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abu
Who’s playing dumb? Ibn issam claims that allah is a scientifically accurate when he says that the earth is spread out.
The quran and your god are wrong if this is what they think. Allah is ignorant of basic science.
Or is allah playing dumb? Or is he playing?
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If you want to offer substantial criticism, then go and master Arabic grammar, syntax, morphology, and rhetoric. The Arabic word being translated as “spread out” carries the connotation of “accommodating,” “spacious,” or “inviting.” And that the Earth indeed is. Science doesn’t really have anything to do with it.
Grow up and quit trolling.
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Leave it to Joel to latch onto a speculative remark in order to try and misportray my position and attack Islam.
He is really digging at the bottom of the barrel here.
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Yep, that sounds like little Coco!
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abu
“If you want to offer substantial criticism, then go and master Arabic grammar, syntax, morphology, and rhetoric. The Arabic word being translated as “spread out” carries the connotation of “accommodating,” “spacious,” or “inviting.” “
LOL!! Classic!
The whole “it means something different in the Arabic” nonsense doesn’t cut it.
The quran says this…..
…and…
Do you see the problem with your objection?
The quran is supposedly revealed to different peoples in their own language – if this is true, then there should be absolutely no issue with translation since the same book with the same message has supposedly been sent down.
The quran should, therefore, be so easily translated into other languages without any of the silly problems of “misinterpretation” that muslim apologists claim when they are cornered about the absurdity for their holey book and its violent content.
The quran reveals its own falsity.
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You’ve really only revealed that you weren’t only acting stupid.. Check 14:4 again – THIS messenger ﷺ was an Arab. Check 12:2 again – ARABIC Qur’ān. So take the meaning from someone who knows Arabic and stop crying about how, y’know, LANGUAGE just WORKS. Words don’t always translate with a 1:1 correspondence, so things need to be explained once in a while (unless you’ve got one single exactly equivalent English word for the German ‘doch,’ or the Japanese ‘wa’ hiding up your sleeve).
Seriously what is wrong with you people? You can’t handle how human languages work, but you’re totally fine worshipping a literal impossibility 🤔😑😣😧
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Abu
Seriously, what is it about islam that makes its adherents so utterly incapable of consistently logical reasoning?
You completely missed the point! Or it flew over your head. Or you can’t handle the truth.
Your holey book says that allah’s message was revealed to all nations in their own language. This must be the exact same eternal quran that was supposedly revealed through mohammed.
Surely even you can see the problems for islam here? Or are you not only feigning dumb?
These words should be easily translated from language to language since they contain exactly the same message – yet, by your own admission, they don’t. If allah’s message is truly universal, there could not possibly be such a thing as mistranslation.
Worse still is the possibility that allah’s revelations are different to different people – implying that there are numerous eternal qurans pouring out of allah’s nostrils. Excuse me while I laugh…LOL!!
“So take the meaning from someone who knows Arabic and stop crying about how, y’know, LANGUAGE just WORKS. Words don’t always translate with a 1:1 correspondence, so things need to be explained once in a while (unless you’ve got one single exactly equivalent English word for the German ‘doch,’ or the Japanese ‘wa’ hiding up your sleeve).”
I’ll try to reiterate my point, but more simply for you. It’s exactly the same message revealed in different languages – THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY POSSIBILITY OF MISTRANSLATION BETWEEN LANGUAGES.
This is unassailable proof that the quran is not divine, but a hodge podge collection of fables and bits and pieces stolen from other religions.
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So language working how language works means the Qur’ān isn’t from God… okay. You’re beyond help. Speaking to you is a waste of time. Bye now.
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abu
God you’re a pompous ass.
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And you’re a thoroughly unintelligent troll. G’night.
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abu
I knew you would run away when you couldn’t answer a simple problem with your religion. You are a pompous ass.
It is exactly the same message – supposedly – that was revealed to perhaps thousands of different racial and cultural groups, yet your god’s message is not clearly translatable? Really?
You just can’t make this stuff up – THERE SHOULD BE NO MISTRANSLATIONS, idiot.
Your only conclusions are that there are different qurans existing eternally beside your goat god and each has different meanings, or that the entire theory is rubbish and the quran is a false man made collection of plagiarized nonsense from pagans or apocrypha from jews and christians. I go for the latter.
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The fact that you can’t distinguish beteen the WORDING of a message in a particular languange (which necessarily cannot be translated verbatim by simple virtue of how human languages work) and the CONTENT of a message really just means you’re stupid.
What a simpleton like you “goes for” should be a clear indication of what to avoid.
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hey joel ,
https://turchisrong.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/frank-tureks-dishonesty-concerning.html
yhwh is under attack joel and he needs your support.
the comment section is free for you to comment joel.
you troll blogging theology, troll a place where your male canaanite old man god is being shredded.
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abu
Pompous twit.
You are claiming that your goat’s eternal word can be confounded by human language. You can;t be that dense? Or maybe you are dishonest?
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Lol idiot. If you can’t make that simple distinction I mentioned, the doctrine to which you refer will be utterly unattainable for you.
I do wonder what your obsession with goats is all about though 🤣
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heathcliff
You moron. It is allah who needs human support – that’s why muslims are called to kill to defend him.
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abu
Don’t go all esoteric on us, you pompous idiot.
You are that dense aren’t you? You are the one who claimed that it was the WORD that wasn’t properly translated because allah’s words just don’t translate even though it is the same message with the same words across different languages.
Now you are moving the goalposts – just like all the other unsuccessful muslim apologists who embarrass themselves in public spaces.
Again, you are stretching the boundaries of credulity by claiming that the words of your omnipotent goat god can so easily be confounded by human constructions like language.
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Yeah, words that are words act like words. Sorry. The only confounded one is you. Quit crying about things needing to be explained. And it’s not a matter of esotericism, it’s a matter of a complete dearth of intelligence on your part.
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LOL, brother Abu Talhah, I see you have met our simian friend Coco the dancing monkey.
I also see that he has used his usual tactic, which is to make a stupid argument, get refuted and then lash out by calling the other person “stupid”, just like a 10 year old child would do. I hope you can forgive him. After all, he is just a little chimp who needs to do some growing.
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abu
We all know you are a pompous twit, so leaving a comment full of haughty pomposity and low on substance only impresses morons like heathcliff, belieber, and qb. The rest of the intelligent adults on this blog see you for what you are.
Now that you have been called out on moving the goalposts you are avoiding the issue all together. LOL!!
I’ll take this as an admission that you can’t explain how it is possible that an omnipotent goat god can e confounded by human language. Turn away from this ridiculous nonsense and repent.
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qb
Don’t get angry at me imbecile. Your co-religionist made a ridiculous claim that he can’t defend and now he’s avoiding the question altogether. Not my fault. Don’t get mad bro – it’s your religion that has been exposed.
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ROTFL, whatever you say Coco!
Now pardon me while I laugh…HAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Joel,
In one of your comments above you cited Qur’an 14: and 12:2, and stated that “the quran is supposedly revealed to different peoples in their own language.” I think your string of weird comments about language, words, and interpretational issues stems from your basic misunderstandings of these two verses which you cited, and also from your obvious lack of understanding of how languages work (as Abu Talhah has already pointed out). I can only assume that you are not bilingual or you would more clearly understand the problems with accurately translating any text from one language to another.
The verse in 14:4 refers to all previous messengers (including Prophet Muhammad) who God has sent to mankind, each with their own respective monotheistic message in each of their own specific and different languages. Although the core truths and basic monotheistic message were the same, this in no way implies that the entirety of each message to each Prophet was the exactly the same word for word as Qur’an we have today. The Qur’an contains verses that are time and place specific, therefore it would not make sense that the same Qur’an was revealed in duplicity to various messengers again and again in the past. Rather it was the core monotheistic message and core truths (which definitely form a part of the Qur’an) that were being repetitively sent to previous messengers, not the historical Qur’an in its entirety as received by Prophet Muhammad. This is a large subject, but I hope I am clear in summary.
In regard to 12:2, it refers specifically to the message received in Arabic language by Prophet Muhammad, as encapsulated in the Qur’an as we know it today. It does not refer to previous messages received by previous messengers.
Neither verse implies that there will not be translational issues with interpreting any given message into another language.
So your basic premise is wrong, as are all of your subsequent remarks in this regard.
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“I do wonder what your obsession with goats is all about though 🤣”
LOL, yes. Coco does have an unhealthy obsession with goats and women’s tampons. The chimp needs to grow up a little more. 🙂
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ibn
That is an interesting take on those two verses – the problem is that your “interpretation” is about ten times longer than the actual verses.
Could you show where in the text it says what the messages was?
Where exactly does it say this….
I see nowhere in the text where it comes even close to saying that the messages sent to other
messengers was a different quran, or that it was a whittled down simplified message of monotheism.
Why doesn’t the quran actually say this, if this is what it supposedly means?
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I was not interpreting, I was “explaining” how your own misunderstanding is incorrect. Try to understand the difference and get the point for once.
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ibn
Don’t try to be like Abu and get all pompous – he is the master of it.
You have left a comment that is at least ten times longer than the verses it supposedly “explains”.
I’ll get the point when you make a valid one – where in those quranic verses does it confirm your explanation?
It’s not a trick question and shouldn’t be that hard. Go on, give it a go!
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“The quran is supposedly revealed to different peoples in their own language”
Can you show us the Quran passage which says this.
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Joel,
We are not required to abide by your arbitrary and ridiculous requirement that any interpretation or even exegesis should be the exact length of the verse in question. Even Christian scholars do not adhere to your foolish standard in the translation and exegesis of their own scripture, so why should Muslims be held to such a standard? That would be like me asking you the question, “If Jesus is God, why didn’t the Bible just reflect him as plainly saying “I am God”……explain in three words or less!” Or asking you to interpret or explain a given verse in Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic, your interpretation and explanation must limited to the same length of the verse at hand. No one would take such a requirement seriously.
My explanation of the verses you cited above is valid. You can choose to accept it or not, and simply because YOU disagree does not invalidate the explanation, nor does it affect the traditional understanding that Muslims have had for centuries in regard to the matter at hand.
As atlas pointed out above, it is YOU who need to prove your case, and show which Quranic passage confirms your own statement, “The quran is supposedly revealed to different peoples in their own language.” If you cannot do this, then just accept that you are wrong and drop your incorrect line of argument.
Unlike the Bible, the Quran is the only ancient scripture that specifically mentions and praises other faiths. Islam teaches six Articles of Faith. The Fourth Article of Faith is the belief in all of God’s prophets. The Quran is clear that God’s Divine guidance is not exclusive to any one people. Rather the Quran says that God sent “messengers to every people“ (10:48) and “We raised among every people a messenger“ (16:37). Prophet Muhammad further declared that God has sent no less than 124,000 prophets to mankind throughout history (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 5, 169) of which only 28 are mentioned in the Quran. the Quran clearly declares, “And We sent some Messengers whom We have already mentioned to thee and some Messengers whom We have not mentioned to thee…“ (4:165). I am not going to repeat my previous explanation, but it is basic common sense conclusion based on these other verses and when taken in light of Hadeeth and Muslim consensus on the subject.
Now back to the Bible – while you complain about interpretation of Qur’anic verses of which we have the original in Arabic, you do not seem to be bothered or concerned about the basic problem inherent in Bible translation, which is that we do not have the original autograph manuscript of the Bible, but mere copies of copies of copies…so nothing in the Bible can be trusted and no translation or interpretation can be taken as the exact understanding of the original revelation, since the earliest manuscripts are LOST!!!!! Furthermore the most recent copies, are not in Aramaic or Hebrew but rather they are in Greek, a foreign language which Jesus did not speak. Any attempt at reconstructing the original manuscript by translating from Greek back into Aramaic or Hebrew is not reconstructing the text at all, but is nothing more than simple and inaccurate guesswork.
You can hang your faith on that if you will, but as for me I’ll take the Qur’an over that any day.
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Paul, that quote from Surah Fatir supports the specifically formulated cosmological argument that talks about the continued presence of the world and the continued existence of it as proofs of God’s existence.
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I’d still like to hear how the text then applies to the eternal attribute of Allah?
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To which sifah azaliyyah are you referring?
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