The death of the great deceiver who had the dubious distinction of propagating Jesus idolatry to more people than anyone else in history. May God have mercy on his soul.
Categories: Bible, Christianity, Death, Islam
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Blogging Theology 
“Indeed, those who disbelieved and averted [people] from the path of Allah and then died while they were disbelievers – never will Allah forgive them.” QT
“And the Day those who disbelieved are exposed to the Fire [it will be said], “You exhausted your pleasures during your worldly life and enjoyed them, so this Day you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation because you were arrogant upon the earth without right and because you were defiantly disobedient” QT
May Allah protect our Eman and Islam.
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All Christians have always believed in the Deity of Christ.
It is wrong to isolate Luke 15:11-32 from its context in Luke 15:1-10 ( The sinners and tax-collectors were repenting AND coming to Jesus Himself. And it is wrong to isolate that from Luke overall; and it is wrong to isolate Luke from all the rest of the NT. Billy Graham spoke the truth about Jesus.
Luke 2:11 calls the baby born of the virgin Mary, “Savior, the Lord, the Messiah”
Luke 2:25-32 – Simeon, who was waiting for the Messiah, when he saw the baby Jesus, he said, “My eyes have seen Thy salvation.”
Luke 22:19-20 and 24:13-49 teaches Jesus’ death on the cross, resurrection, and faith in Him and His work as part of that repentance.
In the Gospel according to Matthew, also early, Jesus says, “come to Me” (Matthew 11:28-30)
See Ignatius’ writings, from around 107-110 AD, with the Didache and 1 Clement, one of the earliest writings after NT was finished.
From Mike Licona’s excellent article on The Early Church Fathers and Jesus.
Two of the earliest Church Fathers, Polycarp and Ignatius taught the deity of Christ. The early Church father, Irenaeus (circa A. D. 120-190) wrote that Polycarp was “instructed” and “appointed” by the apostles, “conversed with many who had seen Christ,” “having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles,”(2) “the accounts which he gave of his intercourse with John and with the others who had seen the Lord. And as he remembered their words, and what he heard from them concerning the Lord, and concerning his miracles and his teaching, having received them from eyewitnesses of the ‘Word of life,’”(3) So his view of Jesus is very important. In The Letter of Polycarp to the Philippians, he mentions “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” and “our Lord and God Jesus Christ.”(4)
Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth and in all gentleness and in all freedom from anger and forbearance and steadfastness and patient endurance and purity, and may he give to you a share and a place among his saints, and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.
Thus, Polycarp agrees with the teachings of the apostles that Jesus is God.(5)
Ignatius was the Bishop of Antioch at the same time Polycarp was the Bishop of Smyrna. He wrote seven letters to the Churches while en route to his execution in Rome around the year A. D. 110. In Ignatius’ letter to the Ephesians 18:2 he states:
For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan . . .
In 19:3 he states:
Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished, when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life . . .
In 7:2 he states:
There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.
And in 1:1 . . .
Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you.
In his letter to the Smyrnaeans 1:1 over whom Polycarp was Bishop he states:
I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise . . .
Thus, Ignatius and Polycarp both referred to Jesus as God.
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more cut and paste jobs from Ken..
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“Two of the earliest Church Fathers, Polycarp and Ignatius taught the deity of Christ”
If we neglect the authenticity of these sayings, and whether they taught the same kind of deity you preach or not, the question is; by which authority did they teach that? Who gave them the right to do that ?
In the half of the first century in the Islamic calendar, a group poped up to preach that Ali(ra)is God of heaven and earth, yet Ali(ra) burned them.
Here’s the difference between Islam and all other religions on this globe t. We know from where our religion has come. In contrast, you do not!
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“Thus, Ignatius and Polycarp both referred to Jesus as God.”
idolatry . blasphemy. man worship.
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“All Christians have always believed in the Deity of Christ.”
WTH did I just read???
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Yes, that is true. From the beginning, of Christianity – Jesus said, “unless you believe that “I am”, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)
Ignatius, Polycarp, Clement of Rome, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, Cyprian, even Origen (who believed some other strange doctrines in different areas – that Satan and evil humans would eventually be saved after many years in hell-fire, etc.) – even he believed in the Deity of Christ – Augustine, Athanasius, Hilary of Potiers, Gregory of Nyssa, Basil, Jerome, John Chrysostom, Gregory of Nazianzus, John of Damascus, etc.
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ah all those famous Catholics who believe in fundamental doctrines you reject. They didn’t even have the same bible as you lol
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catholic, but they were not Roman Catholic. Protestants are little “c” catholic in the sense of “according to the whole” – universal – Rev. 5:9; 7:9; Colossians 3:9-10; Gal. 3:28: Ephesians 2:11-22.
Show me where any of them taught things like “a bishop over all other bishops” (Infallible Pope) or Mary’s sinlessness or purgatory or Transubstantiation or Mary’s Bodily Assumption, or a treasure of merit in heaven that people can draw from so that grace can be gotten from by doing some work of merit. Did any of those early Christians have statures or pray to a statue of Mary? No.
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LOL. Let’s pretend the first few centuries were filled with many sects which rejected the divinity of JC.
And John is just an unreliable sources (even more then the other gospels).
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I typed the first part out; only the quote from Licona’s article is “cut and paste”; and so what? Truth is truth and good, even if I did cut and paste.
What’s wrong with it?
They are historical documents going back 2,000 years.
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Ken Temple
Where is the truth here with all that you wrote? Yahweh always said “I am God”, “I am the only one to be worshiped”.
Jesus never said the above, so he is not God. Saviour, Lord, come to me, follow me etc. does not make one God. Controlling waves or storm will not make one God. God can delegate some of His powers to His prophets and whom ever He wills.
In Islamic theology, Prophet Solomon controls wind, water, Jinns(demons), Jesus and Mohammed also controlled Jinns(demons), Solomon control other creations like birds, ants etc. and no Muslim or Jew will say Solomon, Mohammed or Jesus is God because God has delegated His powers to them.
Christians will not find it on the lips of Jesus that he is God and so will try hard to put that God on him(Jesus) by saying “The Jews pick this”, “He accepts worship” etc. They will not think were Jesus said “Only God is good” and the man never called him good in the next sentence etc.
The Quran said Jesus will exonerate himself and his mother from Christians making him God and some making his mother God. Forget about the Holy Spirit because he is a God invented by Christians. He the Holy Spirit is a Christian delusion, and so God has no time for him(Holy Spirit). Holy Spirit as God does not exist, so Allah has nothing to say about him. Confused Christians want Allah to mention about the Holy Spirit God who Allah knows he does not exist. How can Allah ask Holy Spirit as God a question like Jesus and his mother, when the Holy Spirit as God does not exist?
Allah sent Jesus and also sent an angel to Mary the mother of Jesus, so they exist and God created them, so God has the responsibility to exonerate them from anyone who took them as God. Not the Holy Spirit as God who does not exist.
Thanks.
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“Controlling waves or storm will not make one God. God can delegate some of His powers to His prophets and whom ever He wills”
that’s the missionary deception. if jesus done that by the permission of Allah , then that does not IMPLY unlimited control over floods, SEAS, weather etc .
God is distinguished from creature because He has power over everything , He doesn’t NEED a body , voice of human or getting rocked in a boat .
jesus said to his faithless disciples, “where is your FAITH”
implying that Had they have had FAITH , their faith in God could have STOPPED the storm .
faith moves MOUNTAINS , SAID jesus.
missionaries don’t want to tell you that because they are idolatrous .
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John 10:37-38 – believe in Me because of the works that I do
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it’s a highly selective and distorted bit of propaganda. Just the kind of thing you always spew out.
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You are the one who selects out texts out of their context, resulting in your 600 year late propaganda for Islam.
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LOL I love when xtians bring the ‘600 years’ argument as if we are claiming that when the Qur’an states that Jesus wasn’t divine that Islam has historical evidence for that. It’s a theological claim.
You and your fellow xtians DO claim you have historical evidence. The simple response to that is:
No, you do not!
Stop pretending as if your NT has historical reliability. It’s a joke!
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The Qur’an’s denial of historical fact of the crucifixion of Jesus Al Masih on the cross and death (Surah 4:157) is the joke. That one mistake discredits the entire book – proves that it is not inspired and proves it is just a man-made book/religion.
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It is impossible to disprove that Quran’s statement.
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All the NT proves the Qur’an is wrong.
NT was 600 years earlier, more historical, more reliable. many witnesses; like we have 9 human authors who agree with each other, and inspired by the Holy Spirit ( 2 tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21) – “each fact must be confirmed by 2 or 3 witnesses” – all you have is ONE man’s claim, one human author – no one to confirm him.
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Ken you own scholars say 2 Peter is a forgery! LOL
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Believing scholars don’t. And they are not “my” scholars.
A believing scholar who believes that 2 Peter is genuine, not a forgery; from Peter himself, written around 67 AD. Another possibility is that Peter orally dictated it to Jude from prison, and Jude wrote it down and that would explain the common words and content between the 2 letters.
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NT was all written between 45 AD to 96 AD, most of it was written before 70 AD. John, 1, 2, 3, John, Revelation, 80-96 AD. All others written before 70 AD. Yes, even 2 Peter and 2 Timothy – 67 AD. Hebrews 68 AD. James, Mark in 45-50 AD. Yes, historical reliability is on our side of arguments.
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lol total speculation dressed up as knowledge. Ken to a tee.
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Ken when will you realize that your ENTIRE NT is an unreliable source???
And 2 Peter? Really?
Are we gonna do this dance again?
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Even Bruce Metzger, imminent scholar of the NT, recognized 3 quotes/allusions to 2 Peter in 1 Clement, which was written about 96 AD., one of the earliest non-Canonical Christian writings, written about the same time as what most scholars believe Revelation was written.
“The three allusions to 2 Peter (in 1 Clement) are of particular interest, 7.6, 9.4, and 20.12, not least because of the intense distaste shown towards this epistle by unbelieving opponents of the Bible, which is hardly surprising given its content. . . .
1 Clement 7.6 and 9.4 contain reference to Noah’s preaching ministry and to its purpose and two aspects of its content which is disclosed by no other parts of scripture than 2 Peter 2.5. Clement also here refers to the saving of his hearers, his own house, uniquely revealed by 2 Pet.2.5 and 1 Pet.3.20-1.
20.12 contains a doxology which, like 2 Peter 3.18 and Heb 13.21 uniquely among the epistles, attribute eternal glory particularly to Christ. Jude’s parallel passage, v. 25, also contains Clement’s word ‘majesty’ (megalwsunh), though Jude’s ascription is to the only wise God our Saviour. 2 Peter shares 10 words with Clement – all but one in the same case, part of the title ascribed to Christ, and a more direct attribution of glory to Christ, indicated in Clement by the five word phrase before the relative pronoun. Hebrews with 11 common words is marginally closer, and shares the same terminating phrase, though the ascription of glory is not so clearly directed to Christ primarily. ” article analyzing Bruce Metzger’s view. @ www dot strateias dot org/metzger.htm
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I have never heard Bruce Metzger described as an ‘imminent scholar’ before.
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eminent – I spelled the word wrong. Same sound, but 2 different words with 2 different meanings.
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It’s very recent that the NT has been critically examined with such sincerity. Rejection of many fairy tales in the NT is just the beginning. The crucifixion will come soon Inshallah.
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Even Bart Ehrman and John Dominic Crossan and other modern skeptics know that Jesus was crucified and died on a Roman cross about 2018 years ago and they know it is one of the most established historical facts of ancient history.
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Yea and Bart Ehrman changed his mind on many things! He has gone further away from the christian narrative. He also changed his mind on the burial of Jesus. He taught it was ridiculous to believe that Jesus his body didn’t receive a proper burial. Now he thinks that his body has been eaten by dogs (God forbid!). Maybe tomorrow he’ll reject the embarrassment that Christians have put on Jesus who say that he was (God and) hanging and rotting on a cross almost naked.
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sounds like John Dominic Crossan’s view. He has been saying that for a long time.
Where does Ehrman say that?
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at 19:40
He mentions JDC. At first he thought JDC’s view was ridiculous, now he mostly agrees with it.
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Thanks for finding that. Interesting. It is very interesting that JDC and Bart Ehrman and Marcus Borg and others, famous liberal and skeptic scholars, still know that history tells them that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified and died on the cross. Reza Aslan also knows this and admits this. The reason they reject the resurrection is that it is a supernatural miracle.
But the empty tomb is testified by all four gospels and also by Joseph of Arimethea – in all four. One of Paul Williams arguments against the “I am” statements in John is that they are not repeated in the Synoptics. (one or two are – Jesus said “I am” in Mark 6 in the boat and storm incident.) But even if something is testified to in all 4 (as in Joseph of A. and the empty tomb), the skeptic still does not believe. Interesting.
People won’t believe unless God grants repentance and faith and opens the heart for that (Acts 16:14; Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:24-26; John 6:44; 2 Cor. 4:6; Ezekiel 36:26-27).
“they have Moses and the prophets” (written Scripture), “If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, even if someone rises from the dead.” (see Luke 16:29-31)
they won’t believe unless God secretly and internally works in the heart for true faith.
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These are also very positive things from Billy Graham’s life that I saw on Michael Brown’s twitter posts:
“The same Billy Graham who, with his own hands, took down the barriers that separated races at his meetings, is the same man who, with his own money, paid for advertising to preserve the God-given barriers against same-sex “marriage.” Racism is wrong; preserving marriage is right.”
Dr. Michael L. Brown Retweeted
“Billy Graham held his first integrated rally in 1953, taking down the physical barriers himself. He wrote an article for entitled, “No Color Line in Heaven” for Ebony magazine in 1957. In 1963, he bailed MLK out of jail.
The Gospel is freely given, and all are welcome to it.”
Wow. What a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King: “Had it not been for the ministry of my good friend Dr. Billy Graham, my work in the Civil Rights Movement would not have been as successful as it has been.”
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Jesus said, “I am” (Mark 14:60-64; John 8:24) “I am” = “Yahweh”
they worshiped Him – Matthew 14:33; Matthew 2:1-12; John 20:28; John 9:38
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Ken Temple
Hear me. I am. Does that make me Yahweh? We say “I am” everyday and no Jew will say we are God. If I say “I am God” may God forbids. No one will take me serious because a man cannot be God. Jesus as God needs to say “I am God”, “I am a jealous God”, “I alone must be worshiped” etc. and that is how God speaks. Jesus never said so, so he is not God. Forget about Jews did this, Jews did that and he did this and that. That does not make him God.
We want to hear from his own mouth like Yahweh saying “I am God” “I alone” etc. God must tell us that He is God. Jesus did not say that. If God did not clearly said He is God like Jesus never said, then that God has let down his creations.
“there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
“Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one” Deuteronomy 6:4
“You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
“You are the God, You alone of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
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I AM, WORSHIP ME KEN!
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“I am” = “Yahweh”
When it comes to determining who is and isn’t God, Christians have set the bar very, very, low. But I guess that is necessary when you want to worship a mythological Greco-Roman man God.
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Ken Temple you are a hopeless heretic and no, your preaching is not “c” catholic in the sense of “according to the whole” – universal –
“I am” = “Yahweh” = three-personal being, remember?
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