Nearly 2000 years ago, unto us a “God” was born in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger and running the universe …
Nay!
Say,
“He is God , [who is] One,
God , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”
[Holy Qur’an 112]
Blogging Theology 
Surat al Ikhlass –
Al-Ikhlas means “the purity” or “the refining,” meaning to remain pure and faithful, or a state of purging one’s soul of non-Islamic beliefs, such as paganism and polytheism.
Such a purification is the burning away of all of the worldly misunderstandings, concerns and desires that separate us from the One; the One and Only upon whom we depend, the One and Only who is our foundation rock, the Eternal One and Only.
Surat al-Ikhlass succinctly describes the nature of God in Islam, it is the metric by which we evaluate other religions and separate truth from falsehood, A clear guidance to us from Allah almighty!
Abu Said narrated that he heard the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, say to his Companions, “Is any one of you incapable of reciting one-third of the Qur’an in one night?” They considered it burdensome and said: “O Messenger of Allah, which one of us can afford to do that?” He said, “Surat Al-Ikhlas (He is God, the One) is equivalent to one-third of the Qur’an.” – (Bukhari)
The same chapter is also known as Surat at-Tawhid. (The Chapter of Oneness or Unity).
What a beautiful Surah!!
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I recently had a conversation with a couple of Christian Methodist missionaries. One of them asked me, “What is your favorite story from the Qur’an,” with a condescending attitude as if the Qur’an is a bunch of fables and fairy tales. I calmly replied to him that, the Bible that often relates stories that are historically unreliable, or that serve no teaching purpose (Lot sleeping with his daughters, etc.), while in contrast the Qur’an utilizes stories to teach us moral lessons, theological points, and correct belief.
Then I said that if he insists that I relate a favorite “story” or part of the Qur’an, then it would be Surat al-Ikhlass, which I recited to them.
I quickly followed up by explaining that Surat al Ikhlass/Tawhid, is the metric by which we Muslims evaluate all other religions and separate truth from falsehood, and that based on this surah we can certainly exclude the possibility that Jesus is God.
The look on the missionaries face was priceless! 🙂
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Indeed it is, an eloquent antidote for all kind trinitarianism
It is one of the Surah with plenty of benefits as mentioned in many hadiths, I strive to always recite this Surah Ikhlasat least 100 times a day.
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Brian
March 15, 2018 • 4:55 am
Eric
Your comment is proof that 112:1 is unclear and sloppy – christians don’t believe in two gods, we don’t believe that the true god – Yahweh – has “children” through intercourse and taking a human spouse. The words of the quran – i.e. mohammed and his made up allah – are simply incorrect.
And yes, “beget” can mean to create – again, either the quran is sloppy in its use of human language….
I say;
It is not beget can mean to create, but beget means creation by means of having sex. IT CAN is wrong for you to say but IT MEANS is the correct way for begotten.
What ever begets means, God Almighty is not begotten to anyone. Jesus was begotten, so he is not God. It is blaspheme to say the Almighty God is begotten. Whatever Son/son means, God is not Son/son to anyone. Those who say Jesus is a Son/son and also God have insulted God because does not beget.
Beget means to have sex and procreate offspring. That is what it means. With regards to Christians do not believe in 2 Gods and yet we can count more than 2 Gods is just like most idol worshipers insist they worship only one God and yet one can count more than one Gods in their Godhead. God is One and not a Godhead.
Thanks.
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Brian
Christians believe that god exists in all and every dimension – incarnation is not a problem for such a being. Your task is to prove that incarnation is impossible. Good luck with that.
You will also have to explain how it is possible for allah to excluded from his own creation – how does an all-knowing being lack the ability to incarnate? Did he lose the key to creation?
I say;
In the First instance the Bible says “God is not a man” because He cannot become a fully man and that means ceasing to be God or just putting the form of man and still be God. In putting the form of a man, he did not become man but just putting human’s form. The cloth you wear in your human form is not a man but cloth and you are still a man.
Also, you are not the only one claiming incarnated God. So many religions like Greeko/Roman pagans have many incarnated Gods. This include idol worshipers, Hindus, Rastafarians etc. If you believe in incarnated God, then you have many Gods.
Allah makes His creation and a creator cannot be a created. Bill Gates created Microsoft Windows and before he created Microsoft Windows, he is not physically in Microsoft Windows, so it is impossible for him to be in Microsoft Windows because a creator cannot be a created. If God is physically in His creation then He becomes His creation which is impossible. God’s knowledge and wisdom is everywhere and so He knows everything about what he created just like how Bill Gates knows everything including the kernel of his creation-Microsoft Windows Operating System.
Thanks.
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Yes and no of course. (Its a mystery bla bla …)
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“He neither begets nor is born…”
For those who believe in logical reasoning, a god that cannot beget is not a god. The universe and all creation is begotten. Ayah 112:1 is one of the clearest illustrations of the sloppiness of mohammed’s thinking.
112:1 is clearly not from the mind of an eternal being, rather, it is the work of a human being whose thinking is muddled.
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“For those who believe in logical reasoning, a god that cannot beget is not a god”
????
Are you smoking trinity weed again?
Begetting is lowering God to our level.
God cannot sin so therefore he is not God???
What has that book done to your brain.
Good Lord!!!
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you’ve missed the point.
Your quran is sloppy. God begets the universe and all creation – yet your holy book says that allah can not beget. Mohammed was confused when he made up that smidgen of wisdom.
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“God begets the universe…”
Okeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. I guess you’re braindead.
And the Word of God (ie the Qur’an) isn’t sloppy my friend. And the fact that you said to ME ‘you’ve missed the point’ just goes to show you’ve suffered severe brain damage.
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Surah 112 bitchslaps you pagan dogma! Get used to it.
So easy to understand and yet these manworsipers come and say the MOST RETARDED stuff.
God begets the universe???
What kind of moronic bs is that
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Your own bible makes it clear that begetting for your god is unique for jesus.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son
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You still don’t get it.
The quran is sloppy, aya 112:1 is especially sloppy.
You haven’t answered at all the problem with the sloppy use of language – allah begets creation. You must agree with that. If you do, then the quran is sloppy and false.
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Do you even know what ‘beget’ means you potato???
Your own bible slaps you across the face.
So your God begot the universe and all of us. So we are begotten sons of yout god? I thought your mangod was the only begotten son.
And no I don’t believe Allah ‘begets’.
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Brian,
Outside of your own Christian bias, your misunderstanding springs in part from your deficiency in Arabic language. The original words in Arabic are “Lam Yalid” and the meaning is directly in relation to giving birth or siring a child….
lam = (particle) did not, was not
yalid = give birth to, sire, beget
The Qur’an uses a different Arabic word for “create” (Khalaqa – Qur’an 21:33) Therefore God CREATED the universe, and he did not “beget” it.
And you fail to address the second half of that ayat (112:3) Is God begotten?.
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Brother his own bible uses the word ‘beget’ as an implication of procreation.
John 3:16 says it all. So I don’t know why he is even arguing what he is arguing.
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Yes, it seems that John 3:16 forces Christians up against the wall and leaves them with no other choice than to say that God begets and that their God-Man Jesus is begotten.
Alhamdullah, we Muslims are free from uttering such blasphemy.
In regard to Brian’s statement that “…a god that cannot beget is not a god” again he is forced to say such things in accordance with Christian theology. The Islamic answer is – Why would God EVER NEED to beget or sire a child, when the same all powerful One true God can create all things with a single word (Kun fa Yakun)?
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ibn
Nonsense. TO beget can mean to create, or bring into existence – the quran is not clear about that. But at least you got the point I was trying to make!
Atlas
You are not making any sense. The bible calls jesus the ONLY begotten son of god – begetting isn’t a problem for followers of the true god.
None of this helps the sloppiness of the quran. Mohammed was confused about his god.
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Even if we allow semantic range of the word “beget” can include “creating” (which is not true in Arabic Qur’an), now you tell us how is it logical for a true god to “beget” another god?
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You just refuted NOTHING. You only affirmed your stupidity. The Qur’an clearly says that Allah doesn’t beget. In other words he has no offspring. A rock is not begotten since it is soulless, it is created.
Why are we even discussing such easy things that a 3 year old can understand. What is wrong with these people????
And I love the way you respond. Or rather DON’T respond. You purposefully don’t answer my question.
“You are not making any sense. The bible calls jesus the ONLY begotten son of god”
You think I wouldn’t notice how this ins’t an answer?
If he is the OOOOONLY begotten son then how the hell are the rest of us begotten from god.
“begetting isn’t a problem for followers of the true god”
Whatever that means. It sure as hell isn’t an answer.
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Brian,
You do not get to define Qur’anic terminology. You can say beget means whatever you like, but the Qur’an uses clear Arabic and differentiates.
By applying your Christian bias and “English only” understanding to the Qur’an you arrive at a nonsense conclusion…..and that approach is the only thing that is “sloppy” here.
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Brian
March 13, 2018 • 6:23 pm
ibn
Nonsense. TO beget can mean to create, or bring into existence – the quran is not clear about that. But at least you got the point I was trying to make!
I say;
No problem Sir. So, Jesus was created and/or bring/brought into existence. It clearly means Jesus is not God because he was created and/or brought into existence. Jesus is not God. Some learned Christians use “eternally generated”. Generate means to create and it does not go with eternal, so “eternally generated” being/person is oxymoron.
I hope you will see and detect the nonsense in Christianity when they beilieve God can procreate/begoten when He said He is One, only and alone.
Thanks.
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brian, do you need divine revelation to tell you that fully god and fully man entered the world through a virgina?
your pagan FULLY god and fully man WAS birthed , it popped out of a vagina just like every other CREATURE. in english language we call this what exactly? do you imagine your god had a vagina and he birthed everything ?
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brian, yhwh also gives birth
he says so explicitly in the psalms that he births like any other human being .
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/question-on-the-three-letter-root-wa-la-da.3111572/
نا اليوم ولدتك = “I begot you today”.
Theology won’t change the meaning of this phrase.
hahahah
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“God begets the universe”
Creative opinion
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Everytime a Christian comes up with a ‘logical’ discussion either from the Bible or their own like “love is eternal only if God is multi-personal’, they utterly fail. I have never come across a single logical argument where the Christian doctrine is better than ours.
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Hmm, and how many Muslim logicians are there exactly? Muslim apologetics is based on borrowed arguments from atheists when attacking Christians, and then borrowed from Christians when attacking atheists.
They can’t come up with an original argument if their life depended on it.
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“Muslim apologetics is based on borrowed arguments from atheists when attacking Christians, and then borrowed from Christians when attacking atheists.”
Except their not. Now go to sleep kid. No one wants to borrow from a braindead cult like crosstianity.
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Eric
Your comment is proof that 112:1 is unclear and sloppy – christians don’t believe in two gods, we don’t believe that the true god – Yahweh – has “children” through intercourse and taking a human spouse. The words of the quran – i.e. mohammed and his made up allah – are simply incorrect.
And yes, “beget” can mean to create – again, either the quran is sloppy in its use of human language and it can’t utilize simple words to convey a simple idea, or translations are wrong. This nonsense about meanings “being different in the arabic” (!!) also show that your allah cannot communicate his ideas clearly. He is a sloppy god.
Burhanuddin
“Beget” can mean to create or bring about. The quran is sloppy in its language regarding this.
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You did not answer my question how then the almighty god can “create” another god?, the Qur’an detest strongly any notion that there is any other God besides the One true AlMighty God, what is unclear and sloppy about it?
Unless you did not believe that Jesus, who was born from a woman womb 2000 yrs ago, is god, ..did you?
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Brian : a god that cannot beget is not a god
When Jesus was eternal, what does it mean when it says Father begot Jesus. ? How does begetting mean bringing forth something that’s already there ?
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I got the impression this Brian dont believe that Jesus is either god and eternal. Aren’t you a trinitarian christian Brian?
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“And yes, “beget” can mean to create – again, either the quran is sloppy in its use of human language and it can’t utilize simple words to convey a simple idea, or translations are wrong. This nonsense about meanings “being different in the arabic” (!!) also show that your allah cannot communicate his ideas clearly. He is a sloppy god.”
Wth is this idiot smoking? What is wrong with these people??????
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Eric
I answered your obtuse question – christians don’t believe in two gods.Neither you nor mohammed and his made up god were capable of understanding that. Allah is not god therefore.
The quran is sloppy because 112:1 is unclear about begetting is and what christians mean by god having a son.
Tiyaan
“When Jesus was eternal, what does it mean when it says Father begot Jesus. ? ”
It means that the word became flesh or incarnate, not that god has a girlfriend and got her pregnant. That was mohammed”s ignorance that wrote this nonsense.
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Brian,
You sound confused and angry, let’s take it slow..
You said “christians don’t believe in two gods” but saying is easy, you must prove to us that is really the case. If I say to you I have a square circle would you believe it?
Now I assume you believe Jesus is God and he was born 2000 years ago in Betlehem (while the one true God, the Almghty / YHWH was still around since He has no beginning) then I count you have “two gods” Jesus and YHWH, if you cant explain such a simple arithmetic guess who is being sloppy here?
The holy Qur’an is pinpoint accurate when it says Jesus is son of Mary not son of God because he was indeed born from a human mother, therefore God makes it clear that He is the one and only God of Jesus and that Jesus is just a creation like his mother. God jealously emphasize the false notion of Jesus being “begotten not made” as if that God has ever begot an “eternal” son, whatever that mean, which shall bring the risk of associating the One true God thus blaspheming: the worst sin in the Bible and thus can lead to hellfire. Thanks God for the Qur’an.
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Brian what a mess
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“It means that the word became flesh or incarnate, not that god has a girlfriend and got her pregnant. That was mohammed”s ignorance that wrote this nonsense”
And your proof for that is?
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The quran is proof of mohammed’s ignorance – no christian believes that god had relations with a woman to conceive jesus.
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I repeat: And your proof for that is?
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actually yhwh was in a relationship with sophia/wisdom which was his female person in the trinity. can you explain how a god overshadows a FEMALE woman and then out pops “fully god and fully man” ?
what do we call it when a FEMALE woman BIRTHS a fully god and fully man? this is the father begetting through a female woman by overshadowing in physical way.
it is the christians who give god physical ATTRIBUTES and it is the christians who say that god has FULL EXPERIENTIAL feelings of leaving vagina.
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Eric
I’m definitely not confused! And apologies if I sounded angry – I’m not.
You are making the claim that the true god created a second god – it’s up to you to prove that christians worship to gods.
“Now I assume you believe Jesus is God and he was born 2000 years ago in Betlehem (while the one true God, the Almghty / YHWH was still around since He has no beginning) then I count you have “two gods” Jesus and YHWH, if you cant explain such a simple arithmetic guess who is being sloppy here?”
Christians believe that god exists in all and every dimension – incarnation is not a problem for such a being. Your task is to prove that incarnation is impossible. Good luck with that.
You will also have to explain how it is possible for allah to excluded from his own creation – how does an all-knowing being lack the ability to incarnate? Did he lose the key to creation?
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Incarnation sounds like hinduism or budhism than the belief of the One true God of Abraham, this is never taught by Jesus his apostles …
So your notion of god is that he somehow “incarnated” 2000 years ago to become jesus? When you say god “incarnate” and became jesus, was this jesus the one and true god? or was he a mortal flesh?
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“It means that the word became flesh or incarnate, not that god has a girlfriend and got her pregnant. That was mohammed”s ignorance that wrote this nonsense.”
Nowhere did Muhammad(saw) say anything of that sort. The Qur’an asks “How can God have a child when he has no consort?”
This doesn’t have to be talking of the Christian belief specifically.
You believe in 2 eternal persons, one of which is Father and the other is son. Now, that is utter non-sense. There is no basis for assigning such terms (begetting, son etc.) to God in the natural meaning of these words. RSV doesn’t have the term ‘begotten’ either.
Word becoming flesh means begetting ? Sloppy
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“You are making the claim that the true god created a second god – it’s up to you to prove that christians worship to gods.”
i’ll demonstrate it to you
the father is a different person from the son. what makes the father the father, the son does not have.
the son does not SHARE in the person of the father and is fully EXISTING on its OWN as a numerically DISTINCT being in the COMPANY of other beings/existences.
the son is also fully aware that it does not NEED the father to EXIST as the son.
you worship 2 gods who are in communication with each other.
make love to each other
and one needs to KILL the other because he can’t forgive without blood shedding .
yes, you christians worship two gods.
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Brian
March 16, 2018 • 7:16 am
Eric
I’m definitely not confused! And apologies if I sounded angry – I’m not.
You are making the claim that the true god created a second god – it’s up to you to prove that christians worship to gods
I say;
Proof:
God the Father = God number one(1). Fully God not half God a a percentage God..
God the Son = God number two(2). Fully God and not half God or 1/3 God.
The Son is on Earth and the Father in heaven.
Jesus speaking to another God to make it 2 Gods.
John 17:3
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent
Thanks
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Tiyaan
“Nowhere did Muhammad(saw) say anything of that sort. The Qur’an asks “How can God have a child when he has no consort?””
Oh,okay. So if allah had a consort he could have a kid? Sloppy.
“You believe in 2 eternal persons, one of which is Father and the other is son. Now, that is utter non-sense.”
This is something you have to prove, not assert. Calling jesus the “son” simply denotes the divinity of christ, not that he is offspring. This isn’t hard guys – centuries of otherwise seemingly intelligent muslims suddenly go all mentally handicapped in trying to understand this simple point.
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Brian
You claim that, “a god that cannot beget is not a god.”
According to your own definition: Jesus did not beget anyone…therefore, he is not God.
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ibn
Are you serious? Jesus could have begotten someone – he was fully human, thus he was capable of begetting.
This is such a bad response!
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Brian,
You said, “Your task is to prove that incarnation is impossible. You will also have to explain how it is possible for allah to excluded from his own creation – how does an all-knowing being lack the ability to incarnate? Did he lose the key to creation?”
First, we must affirm that Allah fully capable of any (non-hypothetical) act. In the Qur’an Allah describes himself as “Al-Qadeer” or “The All capable one” (Qur’an 2:20) Also the following verse he makes clear that he is capable of doing all things:
“And nothing in the heavens or on earth is beyond Allah’s Capability! Verily, he is All-Knowing, All-Capable.” (Qur’an 35:44).
So the question should not be about whether God is able or capable to incarnate, but rather the question should be, “Why would an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, all-capable, all-merciful and forgiving God HAVE ANY NEED to incarnate?” – and the answer is clearly that there is no need for incarnation in the first place.
I think the same answer may apply to the question of begetting a son – What NEED is there for such a base and human act by an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, Supremely Divine God?
I understand the reasons that Christians give in order to argue for God to have such a need. But there are two issues here,
1) God Almighty Allah is FREE from any NEED.
2) The Christian arguments for such are based in illogical and false theological understandings such as original sin, faith based redemption, Trinitarianism all of which can be successfully and convincingly argued against, which in turn undermines the Christian argument for there being any initial NEED for the incarnation of a begotten son in the first place.
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Brian,
“Jesus could have begotten someone – he was fully human, thus he was capable of begetting.”
OK.
So just to be clear, in your Trinitarian belief, God begat himself as his own son, and could have theoretically begat his own grandchild? – Weird.
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So just to be clear, in your Trinitarian belief, God begat himself as his own son, and could have theoretically begat HIMSELF again his own grandchild GOD? – Weird.
Would that have resulted in a Quatrinarian God head? And wouldn’t that leave the door open for multiple Gods to be born down the line in the future?
It is easy to see how such Trinitarian belief easily leads into a Polytheistic belief in multiple Gods similar to Hinduism.
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Brian,
As I have explained above, in regard to Qur’an 112:3, Allah is very clear in communicating what he means in the Arabic text, within the context of the Qur’an. Regardless of what you may say, the fact that you don’t understand, refuse to understand, or are simply confused, is your own fault. By quibbling about English Translations of the original Arabic text in order to launch arguments hinged around a single (English) word indicates nothing more than your own “sloppy” approach and the fault is not due any error on the part of Allah (swt) and his Qur’an.
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eric
“Incarnation sounds like hinduism or budhism than the belief of the One true God of Abraham, this is never taught by Jesus his apostles …”
I suspect that you are more ignorant of hindu and buddhist beliefs than you are of christian ones.
As for jesus teaching incarnation – jesus claimed divinity, spoke of the HS as an entity displaying characteristics of personhood, and spoke of the father in heaven. So, clearly, you have little knowledge of christian belief.
Furthermore, jesus and the apostles would have believed in the jewish scriptures which speak of god appearing in human form in a physical body. Islam rejects this, so islam is thus a pagan derived faith that attaches itself without good reason like a tumor onto the true religion of abraham and jesus.
Hope that clears things up.
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Brian , Im sorry but it is clear as mud to me.
The Hindu believe in the Trimūrti, the triad of deities, typically Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver, and Shiva the destroyer. When all three deities of the Trimurti incarnate into a single avatar, the avatar is known as Dattatreya.
Sounds familiar?
Just replace Brahma with the Father, Vishnu with the Son, Shiva with HS, and Dattatreya with Jesus, there you go , you have a pagan derived faith not the belief of the one true God of Abraham.
//Furthermore, jesus and the apostles would have believed in the jewish scriptures which speak of god appearing in human form in a physical body//
I am sorry, my orthodox jewish friends told me that they totally rejects any concept of an incarnation of God and they praise Islam for doing the same. It is least likely that you follow the true religion of Abraham and Jesus and Muhammad.
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ibn
“First, we must affirm that Allah fully capable of any (non-hypothetical) act. In the Qur’an Allah describes himself as “Al-Qadeer” or “The All capable one” (Qur’an 2:20) Also the following verse he makes clear that he is capable of doing all things:”
Nonsense. You have just contradicted your own holy book.
Surah 112:1 says clearly that allah cannot beget since he has no girlfriend. Clearly you do not read your own scriptures. 112:1 shows that allah is reliant on external sources to be able to beget offspring. CHristians,on the other hand don;t believe that god has offspring – for some reason muslims cannot comprehend this simple doctrine.
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brian, jelly , joel
“As for jesus teaching incarnation – jesus claimed divinity, spoke of the HS as an entity displaying characteristics of personhood, and spoke of the father in heaven. So, clearly, you have little knowledge of christian belief.”
that’s 3 separate distinct pagan beings right there.
you are saying that the historical jesus was a pagan . he imagined that his dad was a separate being in heaven and the holy spirit was also like a ghost like figure which could think for itself.
while he spoke of the father “in heaven”
he thought that father was also in hell because according to you, the father is everywhere.
isn’t the son in heaven while it is on earth if they are everywhere?
so why didn’t historical jesus recall the son in heaven next to the father when he says ” our father in heaven thy….” ?
jesus claiming divinity would imply that he was a flesh worshiping pagan that he thought of himself so big that he start GLORIFYING his own flesh.
i also find it funny that this jesus of yours NEEDS the father to say something
” i can of my ownself DO nothing”
“i am COMMANDED what to say…”
why would god NEED to get COMMANDED to say “i am ” in john ? hahahah this is funny
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“Surah 112:1 says clearly that allah cannot beget since he has no girlfriend. Clearly you do not read your own scriptures. 112:1 shows that allah is reliant on external sources to be able to beget offspring. CHristians,on the other hand don;t believe that god has offspring – for some reason muslims cannot comprehend this simple doctrine.”
Firstly 112:1 is not a surah but the first ayat of surah 112. LOL! The fact that you are repeating this just say ENOUGH about the sheer ignorance you have about the Qur’an.
Secondly Allah doesn’t say that He needs a ‘consort’ to have offspring in 112.
Thridly: the place where it’s mentioned says this:
“And they make the JINN associates with Allah, while He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him SONS and DAUGHTERS without knowledge; glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him). Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things. S. 6:100-101”
So if you are so pathetically desperate to say that this is talking about you and your ilk then that means you are also the ones associating jinn (demons) with God and also daughters to God and also sons (plural so there must be at least another son besides ‘the Son’).
If that’s where you wanna go then that’s fine by me. You people already are polytheists so adding more sons, daughters and jinn/demons as partners with Him is just an addition to the stuff you already believe in.
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“Surah 112:1 says clearly that allah cannot beget since he has no girlfriend. Clearly you do not read your own scriptures. 112:1 shows that allah is reliant on external sources to be able to beget offspring”
don’t be a shameless liar for jesus. your god is not the creator of the heavens and the earth, he needs to be in it to experience it, otherwise he has no knowledge of his own creation. he has to overshadow a human woman and get popped out from her as fully god and fully human.
there is no CONSORT for the God who is the creator and controller of the universe.
1- The term that is translated as son is WALAD. WALAD in Arabic actually means a “product of birth”. So, in this Aya it covers that Allah does not give birth, nor does he have a consort to give birth for Him.
comment : the religion of christianity teaches that God became walad and was BORN as fully god and fully human and this god was RELIANT on vagina to bring himself into the world.
quote :
2- The Aya does not actually say “When ” he has no consort. It Says “And” He has no consort. So, the absence of the consort is one of many reasons why Allah does not have a son and not the only reason. The other reasons are “innovator of the heavens and Earth”. “Creator of everything” and so on. For Mary, the only reason she could not give birth is the absence of the man and nothing else.
3- The word ANNA that was translated as How, carries many other connotations as well as in How and why together? So, it is not only how, it carries the other meaning of why should He?! There is no reason for Him to have a son.
The ‘ana’ is also expressed in the fact that God has not taken a consort, because He has no need to, which the disbeliever’s themselves acknowledged. Companionship and ‘children’ fulfill needs of the human being, meaning they are a ‘weakness’. Such a thing finds no place for the Eternal One, who is beyond all needs. If the disbeliever’s acknowledge that God has no consort because it is against his majesty, than the very notion that He would have children is rendered absurd on the same premise.
Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.
en d quote.
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The Arabic word denotes an offspring. The universe certainly isn’t God’s offspring.
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Anas said:
One of the Ansar used to lead the Ansar in Salat in the Quba’ mosque and it was his habit to recite Qul Huwal-lahu Ahad whenever he wanted to recite something in Salat. When he finished that Surah, he would recite another one with it. He followed the same procedure in each Rak’a. His companions discussed this with him and said, “You recite this Surah and do not consider it sufficient and then you recite another. So would you recite it alone or leave it and recite some other.” He said, “I will never leave it and if you want me to be your Imam on this condition then it is all right ; otherwise I will leave you.” They knew that he was the best amongst them and they did not like someone else to lead them in Salat. When the Prophet (ﷺ) went to them as usual, they informed him about it. The Prophet (ﷺ) addressed him and said, “O so-and-so, what forbids you from doing what your companions ask you to do ? Why do you read this Surah particularly in every Rak’a ?” He repiled, “I love this Surah.” The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “Your love for this Surah will make you enter Paradise.” [ Sahih Al Bukhari]
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Would his diaper contents be considered HOLY? Like if you ate some, would you get superpowers?
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According to Brian and his Trinitarian belief, God begat himself as his own son, and could have theoretically begat HIMSELF again as his own grandchild GOD.
The question then becomes, are the diaper contents of the theoretical Divine Grandchild God also considered HOLY?
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Huh? To understand this doctrine, you have to be on some sort of recreational drugs
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Or just have an unsound mind to begin with.
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It is obvious that the Qur’an did not understand Christian theology, which was established for about 600 years before Islam.
Surah 112 and 6:101 and 19:88-92 demonstrate that the author (or authors or compilers) of the Qur’an mis-understood what Christians meant by “Father” and “Son”.
Jesus the eternal Son / eternal Word (John 1:1; Philippians 2:5-8; John 17:5) became a human (John 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8; Luke 1:26-35; Hebrews 10:5)
Since this is so obvious, it demonstrates that the Qur’an is not revelation from God; but just a human book.
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As I have shown you before, your are basing your premise that your book is from God and it is original, and has been from the very beginning .The fact of the matter is the Qur’an has been WELL ESTABLISHED before your Bible has ever been. As Ehrman menttions:
“94% of our surviving Greek manuscripts of the New Testament date from after the ninth Christian century. That is 800 years (years!) after the so-called originals.”
The Qur’an was already in the hearts and minds of the Muslims two hundred years before. While you continued to remain in ignorance, because you were forbidden to read your Book for more than a 1000 years. (https://islamicarchives.wordpress.com/2018/01/05/huffpost-why-christians-were-denied-access-to-their-bible-for-1000-years/)
“The Church actually discouraged the populace from reading the Bible on their own — a policy that intensified through the Middle Ages and later, with the addition of a prohibition forbidding translation of the Bible into native languages.”
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the 94 % of All greek manuscripts only means that a lot of more were copied during the middle ages.
The older manuscripts all confirm what we have today. the older Papyri findings (2nd and 3rd centuries) confirms what we have in Codex Vaticanus and Codex Siniaticus and others of 3rd, 4th, and 5th centuries,
So that 94 % of ALL greek manuscripts quote by Ehrman means nothing on this issue.
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“the 94 % of All greek manuscripts only means that a lot of more were copied during the middle ages.”
So you would agree , when Christians boast about the number of manuscripts they have of the NT, it doesn’t really mean anything, since majority of them come during the middle ages?
“The older manuscripts all confirm what we have today. the older Papyri findings (2nd and 3rd centuries) confirms what we have in Codex Vaticanus and Codex Siniaticus and others of 3rd, 4th, and 5th centuries,”
Does the codex confirm to, let say the Gospel of Thomas which mostly like came before it?
Oh wait, we are going to pick and choose which ones we feel confirm to the Bible, we think is true.
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Except that the so called “Christian theology” was never taught by Jesus and the apostles so you are in danger of associating God , a grave sin, mind you.
Nowhere in the bible it says any kind of eternal son. .it is not necessary to think that “became flesh” (John 1:14a) was intended to refer to the birth of God, or to infer anything about a transformation of God nature or being. Rather, “the word became flesh AND dwelt among us” can be taken as one statement indicating that God has sent his prophet to give warnings for the stubborn Israelites, even in the Qur’an Jesus is called “Word” from God, but muslims never fell into Satan trap to say Prophet Jesus a “God”.
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The apostle John certainly taught this (Christian theology), as John 17:5 (the eternality of the Son is clear) and John 1:1-5 assert. He was an eyewitness with Jesus for 3 years. (as did Peter and the other apostles – Paul, Matthew, Hebrews, James, Jude, etc.)
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Nope, eternal son is not taught there.
The verb “I had” in John 17:5 εἶχον is in indicative mood, imperfect tense. It dont imply eternial sonship but could be understood as God’s foreknowledge. Muslims dont have problem if Nabi Isa could the “logos” from God, which was the “plan” of God from the beginning, and he was created later when he was conceived.
Also you ignore the proceeding verses:
Using your eisegesis, it looks like others also “granted” eternality too like the Father. Of course they are not! Only God is eternal.
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ken temple,
this is enough for you .
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“The Jesus Seminar” = mostly radical leftist scholars, many of whom are atheists and agnostics, skeptics – like the late Robert Funk, John Dominic Crossan, the late Marcus Borg, etc.
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I like what the Muslim Abu Ayoub says about brothers in humanity, trials and tribulations, and that we cannot say that the sickness and death are not necessarily a punishment from God; and that we have to separate apologetics from the reality of sickness and death and not try and judge them.
Good job.
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oops; wrong post.
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Ken please reply to my comment about Circular Reasoning on the other post. Much appreciated .
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But the bible says that “in him we live, move and have our being” so that God must be a participant in the normal act of human begetting in some way that we cannot understand.
King James Bible
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
So the creation of the human Jesus was just a special case of continuous creation by God.
Mohammed seems to have been too zealous to divorce God from his creative activity in the world.
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Exactly, Jesus was created, and we are all Gods creation, so it is wrong to say that Jesus is God this is exaclty what the holy Quran warns us:
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth.
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Its orthodox Christianity to state that the human nature of Jesus is created. Strictly speaking it was already present at the incarnation because it was given to him through Mary. His body was the only thing that was newly created.
His divine nature wasn’t of course. It did not undergo any change except that it existed in a new relation to his divine nature.
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erASSmus, the divine person and the human person BOTH experienced each other. you cannot SEPARATE the natures.
the logos had FULL experience/ feeling of the flesh .
i will give an example erASSmus.
imagine you start feeling like a fish in a fish tank. what do you have to tell yourself that you are currently a fish in a fish tank? your human mind, right?
so your human mind is receiving experiences from the fish in the fish tank
in the same way , the divine person RECEIVES experiences from the human incarnated person
if you say that NONE of them EXPERIENCES each other, then you have created 2 separate persons
for example
the divine person says to the human person
“that chicken tasted beautiful today”
if the divine person said to the human person “i don’t know how that chicken tasted today” then how are they 1 person ?
in the same way, if the divine person says to the human person ” i don’t know how it is like to pass through vagina after i overshadowed my own mother ”
then how are they 1 person ?
EACH has to be “one ” in knowledge
each has to be EXPERIENCING fully the other ..
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“His divine nature wasn’t of course. It did not undergo any change except that it existed in a new relation to his divine nature.”
I meant “it existed in a new relation to his human nature”.
So the divine nature took on a new relation, not a new form, as Muslims often misrepresent Christianity as teaching.
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What you are saying basically there is divine nature (=god) and there is human nature (=man) and they are contrasting to each other, but you then try to conflate them into one. It dont work. God is God (the creator of Jesus and us) and man is man(= Jesus and the rest of us).
Divine nature never “take” a new relation to his creation, because God is absolute to his creation and God dont change (Mal 3:6), the Qur’an says “God throne includes the heavens and the earth”
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erAssmus wrote :
I meant “it existed in a new relation to his human nature”.
your god is a human nature and is in relationship with his own human nature.
explain when jesus was alone in a room, how he related to his divine person ?
when jesus said ” i am feeling sleepy”
how he related that to his “divine person” ?
did his “divine person ” say “i feel your sleepiness” ?
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Brother, consider this a naseeha, please refrain from using foul words even though we are disagreeing with christians i know it’s not easy as often they are the one who started first but we must follow Qur’anic and Prophetic examples.
AzhakAllah sinnak
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“First, we must affirm that Allah fully capable of any (non-hypothetical) act. In the Qur’an Allah describes himself as “Al-Qadeer” or “The All capable one” (Qur’an 2:20) Also the following verse he makes clear that he is capable of doing all things:”
i am wondering if God almighty just sits there and thinks to himself, i desire to get OVER taken by death and let human beings rule over me. Such desire never comes to God and is IMPOSSIBLE because God is the controller, creator and destroyer . God knows who He is and who He isn’t.
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“your god is a human nature and is in relationship with his own human nature.
explain when jesus was alone in a room, how he related to his divine person ? ”
The Logos has but one “I” .
It takes two to be in relation.
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but when “logo” is making claims like i am x, y and z , then he is talking to his self and making relationship with himself . when your human god REFERS to himself as x, y and z he is self worshiping and any jew at his time would have pointed out to him that he is self worshiping .
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“Divine nature never “take” a new relation to his creation, because God is absolute to his creation and God dont change (Mal 3:6), the Qur’an says “God throne includes the heavens and the earth”
When God created Adam did he take on a new relation or not? Or when he created the angels did he take on a new relation or not?
God can’t be absolute to something that does not exist.
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For Adam it was a new relation. For God it was never any “new” relation, because God’s knowlegde is perfect past, present and future. God’s relationship with all His creation is God foreknowledge, in Quranic terminology this foreknowledge is stored in the preserved table (al-lawh al-mahfooz).
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In that case creation would be superfluous.
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Not necessarily, creations interact accordingly (law of nature, free will) each one of them but God already knew the outcome
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