I’m not sure why they keep doing this to themselves.
It’s amazing how most missionaries ignore the existence of Zechariach Chapters 12 to 14. A simple reading shows great violence toward unbelievers, including mass torture, genocide and forced worship.
Blogging Theology 
Ijaz
When you state [It’s amazing how most missionaries ignore the existence of Zechariach Chapters 12 to 14. A simple reading shows great violence toward unbelievers, including mass torture, genocide and forced worship],
First Ijaz, you fail to identify the proper distinction between statements of Law and the Gospel.
Here is the classic work on the distinction that I provided Paul William with that he never read, that hopefully you will read by the author CFW Walther: http://lutherantheology.com/uploads/works/walther/LG/
Second seem unaware of the Holiness of God and what God requires of Man.
• Does not Jesus say in Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect?
• or in Leviticus 19:2
“Speak to all the congregation of the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy
• or in Deuteronomy 18:13 “You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.
God is a holy God – all sin must be destroyed.
These passages in Zechariach are no different than the ones in Numbers & Deuteronomy
Think about it Ijaz, Because the Midianites sinned, “They were worshipping Molac” they had to be removed from the land, and the land needed to be consecrated and become like a virgin” This is why the virgins were spared. The land needed to be consecrated by fire and purified. And if you continue reading the bible, you were see the Jews were warned that if they fell into sin, they would also be removed, which as you can see they were by the babalyonians and then by the Romans.
The only way to resolve the Justice of God and the Mercy of God is at the Cross of Calvary. So in actuality Ijaz, there is no Dilemena for DCCI ; for the Eternally Perfect Justice of God and the Eternally Perfect Mercy of God is met at the Cross – So the only Dilemena presented is the Delemena for Islam – for they have no cross. –
God Bless
Jonathan S.
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“the only Dilemena presented is the Delemena for Islam – for they have no cross.”
LOL!! Hilarious!!!!
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“The only way to resolve the Justice of God and the Mercy of God is at the Cross of Calvary. So in actuality Ijaz, there is no Dilemena for DCCI ; for the Eternally Perfect Justice of God and the Eternally Perfect Mercy of God is met at the Cross – So the only Dilemena presented is the Delemena for Islam – for they have no cross. –”
No we don’t need it. We prefer to get on our knees and beg God’s forgiveness and be forgiven only by His never ending Mercy.
We don’t believe that our sins and our crimes will magically disappear just by believing that someone 2 millennia ago allegedly died for our crimes. That’s not repentance. That’s what we call a shift, a shift of sins.
Just believe that he did it and that’s it baby! Heaven for you!
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Atlas,
you stated: “No we don’t need it. We prefer to get on our knees and beg God’s forgiveness and be forgiven only by His never ending Mercy.
We don’t believe that our sins and our crimes will magically disappear just by believing that someone 2 millennia ago allegedly died for our crimes. That’s not repentance. That’s what we call a shift, a shift of sins.
Just believe that he did it and that’s it baby! Heaven for you!”
Are you saying I could kill your entire family, and just ask God for forgiveness, and He would forgive me with no need for payment. I doubt you would agree.
A perfectly just God will destroy all sin but a perfectly merciful God will forgive all sin. The only place they meet is at the cross. You are saying the death of the Son of God is not paynent enough for your sins. I guess you want Him to be crucified again. That isn’t nice.
you also stated: I just have to stand back and wonder how it has come to this.
How ANYONE after reading
“My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.”
can say with a straight face that Jesus is God is just baffling!!!
Dear God, what the hell has this religion done to their brains?”
Now you change the subject to the trinity, before you resolve the difference between the Law and the Gospel. The classic work is The Proper Distinction between Law and Gospel by C.F.W. Walther http://lutherantheology.com/uploads/works/walther/LG/
As to the trinity we might start simple for you
Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Notice: Name singular, three persons
You really need to deal with one question at a time.
God Bless
Jonathan S
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“Are you saying I could kill your entire family, and just ask God for forgiveness, and He would forgive me with no need for payment. I doubt you would agree.”
in your beliefs .you can kill an entire family and wash yourself in jesus’ blood.
actually in your beliefs, god kills himself 2000 years ago and then brought into existence all the murders .
“A perfectly just God will destroy all sin but a perfectly merciful God will forgive all sin.
The only place they meet is at the cross. ”
if i did murders, i don’t see how roman tool of execution reminds me of merciful god or justice. it would remind me that god transferred my murders and has good time punishing himself like self abuser.
”
You are saying the death of the Son of God is not paynent enough for your sins. I guess you want Him to be crucified again. That isn’t nice.”
so what about u? when you do a sin , what do you do? don’t you remind yourself how your god was shed for you? have nice time beating up jesus in the mind because god is “holy” god? christians crucify him again and again in their minds, thats what the roman cross is there for you guys, to remind you that god can’t forgive, but can only transfer
“God is a holy God – all sin must be destroyed.”
when yhwh gave his laws, where did he say:
1. one has to be sinless to do his laws
he gave his laws to sinners, so what is this nonsense “all sins must be destroyed”
the law is given to SINNERS to obey and to do.
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“re you saying I could kill your entire family, and just ask God for forgiveness, and He would forgive me with no need for payment. I doubt you would agree.
A perfectly just God will destroy all sin but a perfectly merciful God will forgive all sin. The only place they meet is at the cross. You are saying the death of the Son of God is not paynent enough for your sins. I guess you want Him to be crucified again. That isn’t nice.
you also stated: I just have to stand back and wonder how it has come to this.
How ANYONE after reading
“My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.”
can say with a straight face that Jesus is God is just baffling!!!
Dear God, what the hell has this religion done to their brains?”
Now you change the subject to the trinity, before you resolve the difference between the Law and the Gospel. The classic work is The Proper Distinction between Law and Gospel by C.F.W. Walther http://lutherantheology.com/uploads/works/walther/LG/
As to the trinity we might start simple for you
Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Notice: Name singular, three persons
You really need to deal with one question at a time.”
No you missed the point (multiple times actually).
Our God can forgive all sin (except shirk, you can’t me a non-believer and ask to be forgiven obviously) if you truly repent, if you ask for His forgiveness over and over again. Our God has that Mercy, yours apparently doesn’t. ‘All sin needs to be punished’ is just absurd. Then forgiveness doesn’t mean ANYTHING. To forgive means to accept the repentance of the believer and eradicate his sins WITHOUT punishment. Forgiveness and punishment are diametrically opposed to one another.
“are you saying I could kill your entire family, and just ask God for forgiveness, and He would forgive me with no need for payment. I doubt you would agree.”
Yes that is what I am saying. No one argues that a 20 sec prayer will make God forgive you for that. You would have to get on your knees again and again and again… and beg for His Mercy and Forgiveness and promise you will do everything you can to be righteous and to never repeat it again.
“A perfectly just God will destroy all sin but a perfectly merciful God will forgive all sin. The only place they meet is at the cross.”
According to your belief maybe. But I argue that this is absurd! God can destroy and forgive sin without having to punish someone. When God forgives a sin then He destroys it. No need for blood and most certainly no need for blood of SOMEONE ELSE!!! And to make things worse that someone else is innocent of all sins/crimes.
“You are saying the death of the Son of God is not paynent enough for your sins. I guess you want Him to be crucified again. That isn’t nice.”
No I am saying that his alleged death isn’t payment AT ALL!
Punishing someone else for my crimes is not justice in Islam. If you want to bring up the hadith in Sahih Muslim then don’t bother, we interpret that in light of the Qur’anic teachings which abhors the idea of someone else paying for YOUR crimes.
“Now you change the subject to the trinity, before you resolve the difference between the Law and the Gospel”
That quote tells a lot of things and Jesus not being God is one of them. And I put that in another comment. Who says that I have to stick to one thing? The same quote gives different points to talk about and that’s why I said what I said. Kinda silly for you to say ‘change the topic’ when it’s clear I wanted to address that separately in another comment (not directly addressed to you) while still not leaving the issue of forgiveness.
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”
Sorry this doesn’t prove the trinity and you know it.
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I just have to stand back and wonder how it has come to this.
How ANYONE after reading
“My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.”
can say with a straight face that Jesus is God is just baffling!!!
Dear God, what the hell has this religion done to their brains?
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I think people probably asked the same question after taking LSD.
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hey atlas!
https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2018/07/28/jesus-potential/#comment-3493
she is back again bro, lol.
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@Atlas, be careful though, there’s an old man named Paulus hanging around and he’s obsessed with me considering that he already linked two of my comments on QB’s blog so don’t be surprised if the old man creeps you out…seems i have to make it clear on my hovercard that i’m not gay eh…
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Leviticus 19:2
“Speak to all the congregation of the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy
• or in Deuteronomy 18:13 “You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.
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you know, you clipped a verse, but you did it because of your christian reasons(you wrote : The only way to resolve the Justice of God and the Mercy of God is at the Cross of Calvary) .
tell the truth, you don’t give a damn about “holy god”
because if you did, you would have also told about his “holy penalty” for breaking his rule book.
/////
gods rule book :
19 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
2 Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them: You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy. 3 You shall each revere your mother and father, and you shall keep my sabbaths: I am the Lord your God. 4 Do not turn to idols or make cast images for yourselves: I am the Lord your God.
5 When you offer a sacrifice of well-being to the Lord, offer it in such a way that it is acceptable in your behalf. 6 It shall be eaten on the same day you offer it, or on the next day; and anything left over until the third day shall be consumed in fire. 7 If it is eaten at all on the third day, it is an abomination; it will not be acceptable. 8 All who eat it shall be subject to punishment, because they have profaned what is holy to the Lord; and any such person shall be cut off from the people.
9 When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very edges of your field, or gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 You shall not strip your vineyard bare, or gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the alien: I am the Lord your God.
11 You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; and you shall not lie to one another. 12 And you shall not swear falsely by my name, profaning the name of your God: I am the Lord.
13 You shall not defraud your neighbor; you shall not steal; and you shall not keep for yourself the wages of a laborer until morning. 14 You shall not revile the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind; you shall fear your God: I am the Lord.
15 You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer[a] among your people, and you shall not profit by the blood[b] of your neighbor: I am the Lord.
17 You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
19 You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your animals breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall you put on a garment made of two different materials.
20 If a man has sexual relations with a woman who is a slave, designated for another man but not ransomed or given her freedom, an inquiry shall be held. They shall not be put to death, since she has not been freed; 21 but he shall bring a guilt offering for himself to the Lord, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, a ram as guilt offering. 22 And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of guilt offering before the Lord for his sin that he committed; and the sin he committed shall be forgiven him.
23 When you come into the land and plant all kinds of trees for food, then you shall regard their fruit as forbidden;[c] three years it shall be forbidden[d] to you, it must not be eaten. 24 In the fourth year all their fruit shall be set apart for rejoicing in the Lord. 25 But in the fifth year you may eat of their fruit, that their yield may be increased for you: I am the Lord your God.
26 You shall not eat anything with its blood. You shall not practice augury or witchcraft. 27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. 28 You shall not make any gashes in your flesh for the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord.
29 Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, that the land not become prostituted and full of depravity. 30 You shall keep my sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.
31 Do not turn to mediums or wizards; do not seek them out, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.
32 You shall rise before the aged, and defer to the old; and you shall fear your God: I am the Lord.
33 When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. 34 The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
35 You shall not cheat in measuring length, weight, or quantity. 36 You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah, and an honest hin: I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt. 37 You shall keep all my statutes and all my ordinances, and observe them: I am the Lord.
gods PENALTY book
Leviticus 20 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Penalties for Violations of Holiness
20 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 Say further to the people of Israel:
Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. 3 I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. 4 And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, 5 I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech.
6 If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. 7 Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. 8 Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. 9 All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.
10 If a man commits adultery with the wife of[a] his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. 11 The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion, their blood is upon them. 13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. 14 If a man takes a wife and her mother also, it is depravity; they shall be burned to death, both he and they, that there may be no depravity among you. 15 If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he shall be put to death; and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and has sexual relations with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.
17 If a man takes his sister, a daughter of his father or a daughter of his mother, and sees her nakedness, and she sees his nakedness, it is a disgrace, and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people; he has uncovered his sister’s nakedness, he shall be subject to punishment. 18 If a man lies with a woman having her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has laid bare her flow and she has laid bare her flow of blood; both of them shall be cut off from their people. 19 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister or of your father’s sister, for that is to lay bare one’s own flesh; they shall be subject to punishment. 20 If a man lies with his uncle’s wife, he has uncovered his uncle’s nakedness; they shall be subject to punishment; they shall die childless. 21 If a man takes his brother’s wife, it is impurity; he has uncovered his brother’s nakedness; they shall be childless.
22 You shall keep all my statutes and all my ordinances, and observe them, so that the land to which I bring you to settle in may not vomit you out. 23 You shall not follow the practices of the nation that I am driving out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I have said to you: You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey. I am the Lord your God; I have separated you from the peoples. 25 You shall therefore make a distinction between the clean animal and the unclean, and between the unclean bird and the clean; you shall not bring abomination on yourselves by animal or by bird or by anything with which the ground teems, which I have set apart for you to hold unclean. 26 You shall be holy to me; for I the Lord am holy, and I have separated you from the other peoples to be mine.
27 A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned to death, their blood is upon them.
////
so god said that the ONLY way to SOLVE breaking of his laws is by PUNISHING the law breaker. but you being christian, don’t give a DAMN about gods “holy penalties” even though god LISTED THEM after his INSTRUCTION book. why are christians so unholy to “holy penalties” of yhwh?
WHY?
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WHY IS it convenient for christian to say “god is holy” and then REPLACE all of LEVITICUS 20 WITH jesus?
how are you doing justice to the text?
“You shall keep all my statutes and all my ordinances, and observe them, so that the land to which I bring you to settle in may not vomit you out”
” You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.”
the holiness entail to do all the killing stuff and keeping instructions of yhwh.
you CLIP out all of lev 20 and replace it with jesus? christians have no respect for yhwhs rule book.
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Law and Gospel… we should expect this sort of schizophrenia from a group of people whose very deity is essentially schizophrenic.
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“A simple reading shows great violence toward unbelievers, including mass torture, genocide and forced worship.”
I think it would make a genuine dialogue possible if you could be more specific about which texts constitute which alleged injustices. Instead of these sweeping accusations.
“in your beliefs .you can kill an entire family and wash yourself in jesus’ blood.
actually in your beliefs, god kills himself 2000 years ago and then brought into existence all the murders .”
Yes, theoretically one could behead hundreds of male jews and sleep with their wives, like Mohammed did, and go to Friday prayers in the next mosque down the street, so what are you proving?
If Allah would not create any murderers and they nonetheless came into existence that proves that Allah does not exist, right?
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“Yes, theoretically one could behead hundreds of male jews”
You mean the ones that went to war with the Muslims TWICE? Yes they got punished for it.
Narrated By Ibn Umar: Bani An-Nadir and Bani Quraiza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again. He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Bani Qainuqa’, the tribe of ‘Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina. [Sahih Bukhari, Vol 5, Book 59, Hadith #362]
You want to go to war (twice!) with the Muslims then don’t expect a gentle treatment! You will get punished severely!
Now let’s see what your bible says about people that didn’t go to war (with the Israelites) and how they should be dealt with:
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'”
O yes!!!! A very loving message coming from the book of love. Give me break.
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”
Yes, theoretically one could behead hundreds of male jews and sleep with their wives, like Mohammed did, and go to Friday prayers in the next mosque down the street, so what are you proving?
If Allah would not create any murderers and they nonetheless came into existence that proves that Allah does not exist, right?”
erASSmus, i am looking at things from your pathetic gods perspective.
he would have to bring into existence all the murders and then PUNISH himself FOR bringing into existence ALL the murders. do you see the point?
since god CREATED everything (MURDERS /sins don’t CREATE themselves) then yhwh SELF ABUSED himself for what he made, he even says
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
yhwh MADE ALL the rapes, and then RAPED himself by APPLYING rape on himself, since NO one can CREATE rape and TRANSFER it except yhwh.
so i am thinking, maybe your god is a retard who needs help.
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The covenants of law and gospel are both in force parallel to each other. The gospel doesn’t remove the judicial punishments of governments against whatever is deemed to be a crime. It removes the eternal punishment of whatever the moral law of Moses defines to be sin and justifies us to have fellowship with God through eternity.
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Paul preaches the Gospel of “Freedom from the Law” and “Faith based redemption” through atonement by the cross. However, these innovated teachings are not found in or supported by the OT.
How is the NT Gospel of “Freedom from the Law” and the implementation of the OT Law of the Torah “both in force parallel” rather than being diametrically opposed?
Even Jesus was a Law abiding Palestinian Jew, who taught that belief in God, doing good works/charity, and repentance (not his own crucifixion) form the mechanism of salvation.
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” Our God has that Mercy, yours apparently doesn’t. ‘All sin needs to be punished’ is just absurd. Then forgiveness doesn’t mean ANYTHING. To forgive means to accept the repentance of the believer and eradicate his sins WITHOUT punishment. Forgiveness and punishment are diametrically opposed to one another.”
they redefine forgiveness to mean bloody torture of “yhwh the human being”
they believe forgiveness NEEDS SHEDDING of yhwh. forgiveness in christianity is the bloody torture of a god who by NATURE needs to punish himself and not the GUILTY.
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Where does the Old Testament mention the absolute requirement of a Divine Sacrifice on the Cross of Cavalry [as maintained in the Christian Faith] for forgiveness? Furthermore, where is the Nicene Creed clearly mentioned in the Old Testament? If the answer[s] to both are : ”It is not mentioned”. Then Christianity is a horrific joke, hell-damned religion. What is even more shocking is that even the NT does not mention the Nicene creed…and the Old Testament not only lacks any Christology, it goes against them.
The biggest enemy of the Gospel is the Law, the biggest enemy of the Nicene Creed is the entirety of the Bible. Top NT scholars agree that the OT condemns, contravenes and contradicts the Christian faith; furthermore the NT lacks the theology of the orthodox church. If God exists, then Nabeel is in hell, burning, with no one to save him.
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Paul preaches the Gospel of “Freedom from the Law” and “Faith based redemption” through atonement by the cross. However, these innovated teachings are not found in or supported by the OT.
There is no “dovetail fit” between OT and NT, and as Seeker correctly stated, “the NT lacks the theology of the orthodox church.” This is indeed shocking for any Christian to discover, and it is the reason that Christianity is dying a slow-motion death.
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To Erasmus, you wrote:
”The covenants of law and gospel are both in force parallel to each other. ”
My question[s]:
Why is the Gospel not mentioned in the 593,493 words of the Old Testament?
Why is Jesus not mentioned, by name which clearly identifies him as the NT Jesus, with a description such as Jesus, the Son of Mary, the 2nd Member of the Trinity?
Why is Christianity so scriptural weak on every level? This is perplexing to atheists and possibly other religions as well.
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Perplexing indeed….
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Seeker are you fully atheist?
I mean like do you fully reject any form of spirituality?
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“Yes that is what I am saying. No one argues that a 20 sec prayer will make God forgive you for that. You would have to get on your knees again and again and again… and beg for His Mercy and Forgiveness and promise you will do everything you can to be righteous and to never repeat it again.”
that’s too difficult for yhwh coz he is “holy” god
1. creates EASILY corruptible human beings. DROWNS them in a world wide flood. 3. saves EASILY corruptible human beings on a boat and then actualises plan two in which he PUNISHES himself like a self abuser. MAKES satan more powerful than ever .
you know, since they are “born in sin” then that means that “holy spirit” could be the devil deluding them because it is 100 % possible it is their “born in sin” nature which is making them think they are doing good or having belief when in reality it could be “born in sin nature” sending them powerful delusion.
beliefs as well as deed could easily be “menstrual rags” so they are by nature doomed in sin and “holy spirit” could be just DELUSION.
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“To forgive means to accept the repentance of the believer and eradicate his sins WITHOUT punishment. Forgiveness and punishment are diametrically opposed to one another.”
but but but , yhwh is holi holi holi god, he created EASILY corruptible human beings and ONLY SHEDDING of yhwh has all mercy, love, kindness, understanding, caring in it. its all a mix you see. the shedding of yhwh reminds christians how god lost his life to appease his “just” rules which everyone broke because they were too difficult to keep.
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Quote : “To forgive means to accept the repentance of the believer and eradicate his sins WITHOUT punishment. Forgiveness and punishment are diametrically opposed to one another.”
That works in Islam with minor sins where the Muslim is just harming himself. There is a multitude of these “wrong” actions in Islam. Doing something with the wrong hand or foot for example. Were these “sins” created especially for the purpose of creating the illusion that Allah is merciful?
See what happens under Sharia when the Muslim harms another Muslim or doesn’t march lockstep with other Muslims. Allah transforms himself into the most unforgiving God and Islam in to the most unforgiving religion. Or when non-Muslims dare to live out their religions as the Meccans did, not doing any physical harm to anyone.
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Erasmus,
There is so much wrong with your statement, which intentionally misportrays Islamic belief.
There is no need to create an “illusion that Allah is merciful” Regardless of what one considers the minor sins, Allah forgives those sins through simple repentance,….and THAT is merciful.
One wonders, was the doctrine of Atonement by Crucifixion created especially for the purpose of creating the illusion that your God is Just? Because it is not a very good illusion, given that The Father punished his innocent son, (er, himself) for the misdeeds of others and let the sinners off Scott free, and that doesn’t seem Just or Merciful.
If a Muslim wrongs another Muslim, that too can be forgiven through sincere repentance, and righteous action.
“Or when non-Muslims dare to live out their religions as the Meccans did, not doing any physical harm to anyone.” ~ Might I remind you that it is the Christian majority West that is engaged in active warfare against numerous Muslim countries? It must be so easy for you to hide behind secularism, and put on your, “holier than thou” attitude, while preaching your distortions..
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” given that The Father punished his innocent son, (er, himself) for the misdeeds of others and let the sinners off Scott free, ”
why use the word “innocent”?
it is PART of this gods NATURE to get VICIOUSLY sacrificed , because his law DEMANDS him to do it. its in this gods BLOOD. before anything was created, he knew that breaking his laws meant he had to punish himself to cool himself off. people keep on saying “innocent” but i do not see it as “innocent” i see it as one who NEEDS brutal shedding of himself because he CAN’T HELP it.
jesus didn’t DIE for people, he died because the RITUAL of SHEDDING is LITERALLY part of his NATURE.
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Tony,
Agreed.
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“See what happens under Sharia when the Muslim harms another Muslim or doesn’t march lockstep with other Muslims. Allah transforms himself into the most unforgiving God and Islam in to the most unforgiving religion”
What the hell are you talking about?
What does a punishment of the state have to do with Allah’s punishment?
“Or when non-Muslims dare to live out their religions as the Meccans did, not doing any physical harm to anyone.”
Really??? Not doing any physical harm to anyone????
Are you insane dude?
They persecuted the Muslims for over a decade! Nearly killed the prophet multiple times.
Made a treaty with the Jews (and hence breaking the treaty with the Muslims) to attack the Muslims.
What are you smoking, trinity weed?
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Atlas, maybe it’s something stronger, like trinecstasy?
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Hi Erasmus,
You mentioned: ” See what happens under Sharia when the Muslim harms another Muslim or doesn’t march lockstep with other Muslims. .”
Eramus, you have to understand the account between human and human can be more grave compared to the account that is between human and God. Because God is forgiving, while humans…not so much.
Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “Give people their rights. Even the hornless sheep will take retaliation from the horned sheep.” (Muslim)
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interesting!
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Quote: “Paul preaches the Gospel of “Freedom from the Law” and “Faith based redemption” through atonement by the cross. However, these innovated teachings are not found in or supported by the OT.”
The OT says otherwise:
Habbakuk 2 v 4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Quoted by Paul in Romans 1 v 17:
King James Bible
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
“Gospel of freedom from the law”, what is that? The gospel is not defined in terms of the law, but rather belief in the person and work of Christ.
But if Paul did preach a “gospel of freedom from the law” why does Paul write the following, to give just one example of texts which refute this claim:
Romans 2 v 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
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Pauline theology champions freedom from the law. To Paul, the law brought death, but the spirit gave life (2Co 3:6). To Paul, those who are under the law are under a curse (Gal 3:10). To Paul, the law was a teacher, for which we no longer have need (Gal 3:24-25). To Paul, he was a special apostle, entrusted with this new message, never before revealed to man (Eph 3:5). When Paul is called to account in Acts 21, it is because he is offending Christians who are zealous for the law (Act 21:20). James makes Paul perform a ritual to prove to all he is not teaching Jews to forsake the law (something we have every indication to believe Paul was actually doing). What is Paul’s teaching? Why is it offensive? Why does James take issue with Paul?
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A straightforward and honest reading of the OT does not support Paul’s Gospel of Freedom or faith based redemption despite the protestations if fundamentalist Christians.
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“They persecuted the Muslims for over a decade! Nearly killed the prophet multiple times.”
Where does it say this in the sources. Mohammed was protected by his uncle.
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Oh well…seems our dear Atlas has a lot to paste from the Hadiths…
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“May 11, 2018 • 12:45 pm
“They persecuted the Muslims for over a decade! Nearly killed the prophet multiple times.”
Not in Mecca or?
Were the Meccans simply responding to Mohammed’s aggression. The right to self defence is given to all, or not?
Clarification requested.
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LOL, the level of ignorance that we are seeing from Ignoramus is shocking, even for him! Exactly what “aggression” are you referring to? Historians know that while in Mecca, Muhammad (pbuh) only preached, and never took up arms until he went to Medina. The Meccans were always the aggressors.
Are you really this ignorant? Clarification requested.
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Erasmus, do you consider the criticisms by Jesus against the scribes and pharisees as aggression ? If so, they do have the right to self defence and call for crucifixion right ?
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Good point Tiyaan
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Tiyaan, are you serious? You think Jesus’ words against the pharisees warranted a crucifixion?
That tells me you are uber sensitive and think that if anyone criticizes you then they are fair game for execution.
You don’t happen to fly a black flag do you?
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@Royal Son, oh come on mate (sorry for jumping in btw) i think you should read Erasmus’ question to know what Tiyaan meant, you’ve mistakenly accused him of something he didn’t really mean…
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Middle Eastern prophecy: Is Trump a reincarnated King Cyrus, destined to herald the end of days?
http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-eastern-prophecy-is-trump-a-reincarnated-king-cyrus-destined-to-herald-the-end-of-days/news-story/8fce69eacebd929b482ee00c895f37dc#.141ae
“Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah.”
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My dear Christians on BT, I’ve been using some pretty provocative insults against you guys since the past few weeks/months, pretty vile behaviour on my part, seems i’ve been transforming into a shamounian day by day, so sorry about that, please accept my apologies and i promise to stop using insults against you guys from now on…have a nice day, cheerio…
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