Muslim are taught that it is ultimately only by God’s mercy that one will enter paradise:
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said,
“Do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and receive good news because one’s good deeds will NOT make him enter Paradise.” They asked, “Even you, O Messenger of God?” He said, “Even I, unless and until God bestows His pardon and Mercy on me.”
(Sahih al-Bukhari Volume 8, Book 76, Number 474)
So here we see that it’s not by one’s good deeds that one will enter paradise but by God’s Mercy. However, God has commanded us to do good deeds and we would not be recipient of His mercy unless we obey His commands.
Categories: Islam
Blogging Theology 
Weak hadith
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Oh you are an expert in Hadith now?
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Mark, some Christians are so greedy. They claim God’s mercy only for themselves.
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Expert? Pffft… I thought that was just what I should say when people quote Hadith for evidence? That’s what I’ve learnt in my years interacting with Muslims.
I hope ur predestined to receive mercy my friend, inshallah
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In Islam we are required to provide evidence of we think a Hadith is weak, not just say so.
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Let’s follow the logic:
We only enter paradise by the mercy of Allah, but to receive the mercy of Allah we need to do good works. but it’s somehow not works based righteousness? Rrriiigggghhhttt…. Makes complete (non)sense
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Who says you need to provide evidence? Let me guess, another Hadith? 🙂 #irrational
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It is not irrational to ask for evidence for your claim that a certain Hadith is weak.
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Mark
You have to do good work and fear Allah. That is the criteria. You could be saved into doing good by fearing Allah.
Those who do not fear Allah, even if they do good may not enter paradise and they could get their good deeds here on earth.
Mark. Show me in the Quran where it says in order to receive the mercy of Allah we need to do good works.
Thanks.
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Mark
You said;
Let’s follow the logic:
We only enter paradise by the mercy of Allah, but to receive the mercy of Allah we need to do good works. but it’s somehow not works based righteousness? Rrriiigggghhhttt…. Makes complete (non)sense
I say;
May be it is nonsense on your part to not read the above post by Paul Williams. It clearly stated that that good deeds alone cannot take you to paradise but it is Allah’s Mercy that takes one to paradise.
In Islam it is faith and good deeds and not good deeds alone or faith alone.
In Christianity it still based on righteousness despite Jesus dying for your sins, you must still be righteous and be doing good. Isn’t it? So the death of Jesus on the cross is nonsense isn’t it? because you still have to repent when you commit sin, so Jesus did not die for your sin as a Christian.
You as a Christian is responsible for your sin, just like Muslims because you need to repent when you sin. The death of Jesus becomes useless because he did not save you when you sin but your repentance saved you so I can also say the death of Jesus is nonsense to Christians.
You said;
Who says you need to provide evidence? Let me guess, another Hadith? 🙂 #irrational
I say;
No. The Quran said we need to provide evidence in whatever we do. You need to learn Islam.
Thanks.
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Mark
Does the not the Bible also in many places teach that without good works your faith is useless?
such as throughout the Torah and the Epistle of James. It is wrong therefore to dismiss the importance of good works in the salvation of human beings. It is not ‘works righteousness’ to do the will of God but rather as Jesus taught it is the only way to enter eternal life.
Why do you marvel at such things? Why do you so readily dismiss the teachings of a Prophet of God?
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Intellect
Its true that only the mercy of God can change peoples hearts and guide them to himself. I hope nobody thinks that with my previous comment I deny this. It is just that in light of Marks statement it is appropriate to emphasis there importance. Perhaps this is why so many Fundamentalists support Ben Carson or ‘The Trump’. As long as your part of the tribe that is all that matters.
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Mark,
I don’t know why you keep coming back here when it’s obvious that you will run away in the middle of a discussion when you get cornered. 😉
The hadith is not weak. It is accepted by all Islamic scholars, past and present. Therefore, your idiotic statement…is just that.
To earn Allah’s mercy, one must believe and do good works. A person who believes yet refuses to do good works is not really a believer. A person who does good works but refuses to believe is also not a believer. Allah will judge each person accordingly.
And by the way, for a Christian to talk about…ahem…”nonsense” in another religion is…well, just another example of a Christian pot calling the kettle black. LOL! Have you ever read the Bible? Now there’s some nonsense there!
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So predictable. The Williams’ boys club has arrived to argue.
Intellect: “Show me in the Quran where it says in order to receive the mercy of Allah we need to do good works.”
I’ll do one better. Here is what Paul said in the OP, as a conclusion to this Hadith.
“we would not be recipient of His mercy unless we obey His commands.”
So which is it? As I said, weak Hadith. Weak in clarity, helpfulness and usefulness. You guys can’t even agree on such an important topic.
Oh and btw, stop assuming things about me. The only thing worse than the church is the mosque.
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Actually Mark you may be right. The Hadith is sound but my commentary may be in error
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Fiaz,
If u need to ‘earn’ mercy, then it’s not really mercy now, is it?
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Paul
I don’t think you can say for certain that obeying your god’s commands to do good deeds can or does contribute to his decision to exercise mercy. The verse you quoted certainly does not make that clear or even obvious. To me it is rather bleak; do good deeds and then….shrug?
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Mark,
Why not? Why can’t mercy be earned? Just because you say so? Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) will choose to show mercy to anyone He deems worthy, based on His infinite knowledge and wisdom. Only those who are truly deserving of His mercy will be saved. That makes perfect sense to me. It’s certainly more sensible than the idea that God wanted to save everyone from sin, so He came down in human form to die for everyone’s sins so that they could be saved, but only if they acknowledged his human form as their personal “savior”. Riiiight.
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Mercy is receiving something you don’t deserve. If u have earned it, then it is no longer mercy.
You guys are so confused. Hardly surprising given the nature of soteriogy in Islam.
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Faiz
Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) will choose to show mercy to anyone He deems worthy, based on His infinite knowledge and wisdom. Only those who are truly deserving of His mercy will be saved.
That makes an allah’s quality equal to that of humans – and thus, trivial. I can show mercy, and my mercy can be earned.
On the Christian view – as you may or may not know – God’s salvation does something far more along the lines of aligning our essence with His. Without His purifying salvation we remain unable to stand in the presence of our creator – He is just too resplendent and pristine for our sinful natures to behold without our annihilation.
You guys on the other hand seem to be saying that you are capable – mere created creatures mind – of performing enough deeds to enable you to be pristine enough to be in allah’s presence.
It actually sounds arrogant and prideful. I know that there is nothing – absolutely nothing – that I can do to ever be pristine enough to exist in God’s presence – and I’m a pretty nice bloke!
Do you guys really believe that you can match allah’s infinitely pristine nature through good deeds such that you become pure enough based on those deeds to behold him? That is, in effect what you are implying.
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“Do you guys really believe that you can match allah’s infinitely pristine nature through good deeds such that you become pure enough based on those deeds to behold him? That is, in effect what you are implying.”
We don’t have to match God’s infinitely pristine nature. We just have to do the best we can.
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Kmak
We do the best we can too, and we are still not pure enough to behold Him. I’m just not following how doing the best we can makes it possible for us to stand in the presence of His infinite pristineness and absolute purity. In order to do that you must be as pure as He is . Otherwise, you are saying that human impurity can exist in his presence – we say that is logically impossible because that would diminish His purity.
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Mark,
There you go again, deciding for yourself whether something can be earned or not. Mercy can indeed be earned. Just because you say that it can’t, it doesn’t mean it can’t. As I said, Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) will judge each person based on His infinite knowledge and wisdom. He knows who is worthy of being saved and who is not. Someone who claims to be a believer yet does not do the good deeds that Allah has commanded is not really a believer. Therefore, that person will probably not receive Allah’s mercy, though He knows best.
“You guys are so confused. Hardly surprising given the nature of soteriogy in Islam.”
LOL! Says the Christian who believes in One God who is actually three, and who had to descend to earth in human form to die for everyone’s sins so they could be saved from His wrath. What was that about being “confused”? 😉
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Dirk,
You claim that since God is infinitely more pure than we are (on this we agree), we cannot hope to be saved “without his purifying salvation”. But this is the same as saying that God made us impure, and yet holds us responsible for not coming close to His purity…unless (!)…He gives us “his purifying salvation”. How on earth does that make sense? Why couldn’t He just forgive without coming in the form of a man to die for everyone’s sins? How exactly does his earthly “death” make us “purer”?
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Salvation comes from Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) and not from ourselves. That is the point of the hadith from Sahih Bukhari.
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Faiz
Your reasoning seems skewed. It does not follow in any way that God made us impure – I just don’t see how you you could draw that conclusion from what I said. No Christian believes that He made us impure.
Purifying salvation makes good sense in the context of jewish sacrifice rituals which were carried out as a means of purification – no purification without blood. That’s why I’ve never been able to view Islam as part of the Judeo-Christian tradition – sacrificial purification is central to both faith’s concepts of purification and forgiveness, but not to Islam. We view Jesus as the last sacrifice which is why He allowed the temple to be destroyed – it wasn’t required anymore since no more sacrifices were necessary thanks to His infinite wisdom and mercy.
At the same time, good deeds do not make anyone purer – so even if you earn allah’s mercy, you still stand impure before him. Thus, according to you, human impurity can exist in allah’s presence which means that allah cannot possibly be infinitely pristine and absolutely pure. If on the other hand, allah can simply will your impurity away, then that makes him cruel since he should – if he was absolutely merciful – purify everyone.
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Faiz
Salvation comes from Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) and not from ourselves. That is the point of the hadith from Sahih Bukhari.
Dude, are you sure Islam makes sense to you?!! This contradicts what you said earlier – do you deserve allah’s mercy or does it come your way for reasons unknown? Do you deserve mercy because you have earned it with good deeds, or do you deserve it for some reason outside of your control?
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Dirk
You said;
Purifying salvation makes good sense in the context of jewish sacrifice rituals which were carried out as a means of purification – no purification without blood. That’s why I’ve never been able to view Islam as part of the Judeo-Christian tradition – sacrificial purification is central to both faith’s concepts of purification and forgiveness, but not to Islam. We view Jesus as the last sacrifice which is why He allowed the temple to be destroyed – it wasn’t required anymore since no more sacrifices were necessary thanks to His infinite wisdom and mercy.
I say;
Jews do not believe what you claimed above in that no purification without blood. Jews from the past till today do not believe in purifying salvation. You did not tell the truth here. When it comes to salvation, Jews are closer to Muslims than Christians because Jews, just like Muslims believe God is One, Only and Alone and that is the faith part and the second part is to do good.
It is not true that Jews believe in purifying salvation. I am afraid, you lied on this one. Show me a single Jew who believed a blood or some ones blood can save me. You cannot provide a single practicing Jew who believe a blood will save him.
The sacrifice in the old testament is just a form of sacrifice to use your money or something that you want to show obedience to God. People who do not have money to buy animal for the sacrifice can use flour and flour do not have any blood in it.
That could have been very wicked because no one has the money to buy animal for the blood to earn salvation. At the time of Moses, the whole animals would have finished if any single sin requires a blood sacrifice and poor people could have been put to hell because they cannot afford money to buy animal for a blood sacrifice.
Dracula and vampires are those satanic legends that needs blood and idols also need blood before they can forgive.
I Islam, God Almighty forgives on his discretion based on His knowledge, wisdom and mercy but not blood.
God clearly mention to us when He asks us to sacrifice animal, it is for us to enjoy the meat and distribute the rest to charity, friend and poor but He does not need anything from it. God does not need the blood He created. It is illogical for God to want the blood He created.
Thanks.
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Intellect
I didn’t say that the Jews believe in purification salvation – I said that they believed in purification sacrifice. I haven’t lied, you did not read thoroughly. You must have been reading one of your corrupted Torahs or maybe I’m taking Exodus 29:36, Lev 4:31 Leviticus 16:19 and Hebrews 9:22 too literally. The sacrifice is made for purification and the atonement of sin.
You don’t seem to know what the Jews actually believe.
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Dirk
You said;
At the same time, good deeds do not make anyone purer – so even if you earn allah’s mercy, you still stand impure before him. Thus, according to you, human impurity can exist in allah’s presence which means that allah cannot possibly be infinitely pristine and absolutely pure. If on the other hand, allah can simply will your impurity away, then that makes him cruel since he should – if he was absolutely merciful – purify everyone.
I say;
It is a sin for anyone to think we humans can be purer like God. It is a great sin and needs repentance because God is God and Human is Human.
No matter what, we cannot be purer like God. In God’s presence, we are still not like God but created humans and God is uncreated being.
According to Islam, heaven is pure, so if you enter into heaven you will earn God presence. In Islam it is about heaven and heaven is anything that we want to attain and not pure because once you enter into heaven you are pure. Islam does not stress on being pure like God because that is nonsense because no human can be pure like God.
Instead in Islam, heaven is the main place Allah wants us to be in by obeying Him and following His commands.
LISTEN
IN ISLAM WE DO NOT STRESS ON BEING PURE LIKE GOD BECAUSE WE NO ONE CAN BE PURE LIKE GOD EVEN WITH VAMPIRE OR DRACULA BLOOD.
IN ISLAM WE PRAY TO ENTER HEAVEN AND WE WILL BE PURE THERE TO MEET OUR CREATOR.
HEAVEN IS PURE and may Allah grant us paradise to be in the presence of God. Bad deeds and not fearing God and obeying His commands will put someone in hell fire. That is were the impurities is removed.
Christians cannot believe in Jesus sacrifice and continue to sin. The blood cannot save their sin unless they repent and become responsible for their sins just like Muslims and Jews and therefore the blood or sacrificing Jesus is useless for it could not save a Christian without repenting.
Repenting triumph and strong than Jesus sacrifice, even in Christianity.
Thanks.
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Intellect
Not according to the Judeo-Christian tradition – which again is why I view Islam as being separate and completely disconnected from it.
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Intellect
Our version of heaven is different – we strive for heaven only for the purpose of sitting in eternal adoration of our everloving God.
I’m absolutely shocked that you said that you earn allah’s presence – as if he owes you for services rendered. That is not submission that is entitlement.
Your position seems to be that you somehow earn the purity that enables you to sit in the presence of God as some kind of debt owed to you from allah for some vague worldly deeds you have undertaken.
Yet, I still see no reasonable means by which Islam offers a process of purification that enables its adherents to go before their god without staining his purity.
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Dirk
You said;
Our version of heaven is different – we strive for heaven only for the purpose of sitting in eternal adoration of our everloving God.
I’m absolutely shocked that you said that you earn allah’s presence – as if he owes you for services rendered. That is not submission that is entitlement.
Your position seems to be that you somehow earn the purity that enables you to sit in the presence of God as some kind of debt owed to you from allah for some vague worldly deeds you have undertaken.
Yet, I still see no reasonable means by which Islam offers a process of purification that enables its adherents to go before their god without staining his purity.
I say;
On the contrary, it is Christian God who had to pay debt to whether it is Satan or pay Himself before He can forgive sins. After that He could not forgive sins because still a Christian must repent and be responsible for his sins. It means Christian God paid debt by hanging Himself or committing suicide or murdering His Son to pay debt for Christians but it was not enough for repentance is still needed when a Christian sins.
Allah created us and gave us His commands because it is not good to cheat, steal, fornicate etc. and hurt others, so we must follow Allah’s instructions and heaven is guaranteed and we have Allah’s presence. It is submission.
You said;
Yet, I still see no reasonable means by which Islam offers a process of purification that enables its adherents to go before their god without staining his purity.
I say;
I do not think blood is purification but not cheating, killing, fornicating but following Gods law and praying and worshiping like how Jesus did at Garden of Getsemane will help one to have Gods mercy and enter heaven and heaven is pure and holy and there will be God presence.
Talking about being pure like God is a sin because no one can be pure like God because God is God and human is human and creations of God and cannot be pure or perfect like God. It is impossible.
You said;
Our version of heaven is different – we strive for heaven only for the purpose of sitting in eternal adoration of our everloving God.
I say;
Why should you strive for heaven when heaven is guaranteed for you by the blood of Jesus? Most Christians will tell me heaven is guaranteed for them and I tell them; nonsense, when have you been to heaven and back with angels and God in your smart phone for us to see?
You seem to be a Muslim by using “we strive for heaven”.
Please do capitalize the Allah for Christians and Jews use Allah as their God too and by disrespecting Allah, you disrespect your fellow Christians and Judeo-Christian tradition.
Thanks.
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Dirk: you must be as pure as He is .
Not really. Being as pure as God is not a requirement for salvation in the Sunni understanding of Islam.
Dirk: Otherwise, you are saying that human impurity can exist in his presence – we say that is logically impossible because that would diminish His purity.
That’s absurd. If the presence of impure humans can diminish the purity of your God, then your God is not the greatest being conceivable.
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Kmak
You said;
Dirk: Otherwise, you are saying that human impurity can exist in his presence – we say that is logically impossible because that would diminish His purity.
That’s absurd. If the presence of impure humans can diminish the purity of your God, then your God is not the greatest being conceivable.
I say;
When Christians are speaking, they do not think at all.
Christians said;
1. God came down and enter into a womb of woman for 9 months and they do not think of human impurities there.
2. The same God they claim human cannot be close to because of human impurities, they claim has come down to live with the impure humans.
3. The same God Christians claim human cannot be close to him because of human impurities has an impure human as part of Himself.
4. The same God that is pure and cannot contain human impurities became man HIMSELF.
What type of nonsense and illogicalities is this?
and the list goes on
Thanks.
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Dirk “Not according to the Judeo-Christian tradition …” There is no such thing
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Dirk, folks like you or Ken Temple define a new category of fallacy – circular preaching
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Dirk “We view Jesus as the last sacrifice which is why He allowed the temple to be destroyed – it wasn’t required anymore since no more sacrifices were necessary thanks to His infinite wisdom and mercy.”
The earliest Jerusalem Church under James the Just did not believe that. They continued to offer sin sacrifices in the Temple after Jesus (as) was raised to God. See Acts 21, Nazarite vow
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With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Actually br. Paul Williams is not entirely in err saying that :
“We would not be recipient of God mercy unless we obey His commands.”
Although Salvation in Islam is purely by the Grace of God Almighty, such as what is described according to the standard explanation of the belief شرح العقيدة of sunni Islam (Ahl Assunah Wal Jamaah) that: No one enters Paradise except by the Mercy of Allah [1], the sinners will still need to repent sincerely to seek for Allah will accept their repentance and to avoid Allah’s punishment. This act of seeking for Allah’s mercy to pardon sins can be seen as act of obedience to Allah (ie good deeds) and in some sense also an act of “earning” by the sinner to please the mercy Giver ie Allah.
However ultimately it is God Almighty who creates all of our actions. Therefore while we seems “earning” good deeds, they are ultimately caused by and belong to Him.
Therefore in Islamic Soteriology, faith belief and/or deeds are not the cause/s of salvation. Rather, God Almighty is the Cause of Salvation.
To submit and to rely solely upon God is the path to salvation:
Notes
[1] Kitab Sharh us-Sunnah Al-Barbahari , by Abu Muhammad Al-Hasan ibn ‘AlI ibn Khalaf
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With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Dirk,
You said:
Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible we are told that Qorban (sacrifices) were the only one form of atonement. Sacrifices are only for very specific (usually accidental) sins. Serious sins always required repentance, turning to God and asking for forgiveness (both from the people you might have wronged and from Gd if you wronged Him).
as in Hosea:
(in other words prayers instead of sacrifice)
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Mark
try this
Thanks.
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Mark
You said;
Oh and btw, stop assuming things about me. The only thing worse than the church is the mosque.
I say;
That is not true. You are brainwashed by your Christian Church and western controlled media to think so. You do not think by yourself but control by NT writings which was authored by men and have so many contradiction as we Muslims have demonstrated above and shut the hell out from your mouths and that is what a Muslim always do.
Do shut the hell out of a Christian mouth who is brainwashed by NT writings couple with Church thinking and deceptive western Media.
The Church and Christians are now pushing for war with Iran, which is a Majority Muslim country with a lot of Jews and Christians living there and are happy and do not intend to be refugees or migrate anywhere.
The evangelical Christians will show support to any presidential candidate of the republicans who is willing to go to war with Iran. Muslims and the Mosque becomes peaceful as Iran the remaining un attacked by the Christian Zionist evangelicals still remains with majority Jews and Christians living there right now. The Mosque is not worse than the Church but the Church is worse than the Mosque.
Iraq has its Christians and Jews who lived there from the time of Jesus till today but the evangelical Zionist Christians and their Churches voted for war with Iraq. It is not Muslims who voted for war on Iraq but it was the Church through evangelical Christian Zionist and it can be evidence today as they still shout for the blood of Muslims by going to war in Muslim countries and banning all Muslims from entering all Christian majority countries.
That is the Church and Christianity which refused a ship load of Jews entry to the US and the ship went back to Europe and found its passengers killed in the holocaust. The Caliph of the Ottoman Empire chattered ship to bring all persecuted Jews from the Christian Europe and Turkey, Lebanon, Palestine, Yemen etc. still have their native indigenous Jews, Christians and other non Muslims.
The Church is worse than the Mosque, I am not denying Muslims have their extremist, but we do control and fight them as is evidence today by more Muslim countries participating in war on terror and also reporting their extremist relation to the authorities as was done by the Father of the Nigerian underwear bomber. Canada, Australia, US, Britain has recording the cooperation of some Muslim Imams and families to report any perceived extremist to the Authorities.
The Christian Zionist evangelical extremist cannot be reported to any one by voting another extremist to go to war with Iran like how they did on Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan to create isis.
Saddam Hussein vice president Tariq Aziz was a Christian and most legislatures in Palestinian, Egyptian, Lebanese, Syrian, Jodanian, you name it of most Muslim majority countries are Christians. How many Muslim legislatures are allowed in the US or any non Muslim countries when Newt and Ben Carson say the will not allow any Muslim legislature and raised more money from evangelical Christians through their Churches that deny others who do not share their views including themselves i.e. Catholics would not have been voted president of the US a few years ago.
The Church is worse than the Mosque.
Thanks.
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Dirk
You said;
I’m absolutely shocked that you said that you earn allah’s presence – as if he owes you for services rendered. That is not submission that is entitlement.
Your position seems to be that you somehow earn the purity that enables you to sit in the presence of God as some kind of debt owed to you from allah for some vague worldly deeds you have undertaken.
Yet, I still see no reasonable means by which Islam offers a process of purification that enables its adherents to go before their god without staining his purity.
I say;
God created us on this earth. We do not know how and why he created us here. So God has to send us prophets out of His love for us to show us the right path because of our choice and freewill.
Angels, Mountains, Cattle, Lions and most God creations do not have choice and freewill but humans have freewill and choice. Angel cannot decide not to obey God but man can decide not to obey God and that is the difference.
So human being need guidance and right path to God hence the messengers and prophets sent to us as God love and mercy to us. Jesus and Mohammed are mentioned as mercy to mankind. In Muslim prayers we keep saying “guide us to the right path and the path of those you have mercy upon” about twenty something times a day to strive for God’s mercy and guidance to the right path.
Not the wrong path of course. No one would like to take the path of Satan, Pharoah, arrogant, murderer, armed robber, un-maritial sex, adultery etc. and all the vices and injustices the world over.
That is why the law of God must be followed and not do all the above vices and repent sincerely when you do those and could be forgiven free of charge from the discretion of God who own everything.
No blood, whether vampire, idol or Dracula can save someone who rape and kill someone’s wife without repenting.
So repenting triumphs than the blood of Jesus, even in Christianity. Abraham, Moses and all prophet of God did not teach their followers that their sins will be frozen till Jesus died to wipe their sins. It is not in Torah. Livestock and animals are expensive and most people cannot afford to buy animals to atone for their sins everyday. We are not perfect and an average person can sin let say 1 dayX 7days a week X 4 weeks a month X 12 month a year.
How can he be buying animals for each sins he has made, and if does not have money to purchase an animal to sacrifice and he dies and cannot just repent sincerely, would it be just for being made poor by God? to punish him?
Blood sacrifice as a whole sale atonement for sin is injustice to the poor.
Thanks.
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Dirk
You said;
Not according to the Judeo-Christian tradition – which again is why I view Islam as being separate and completely disconnected from it.
I say;
Here is a sample of a Jew who said, you are lying and sorry for that (I do not intend mischief but to point the truth), there is nothing like Judeo-Christian tradition. He said the best way for forgiveness is to realize your mistake and sincerely repent and ask God for forgiveness just like in Islam.
Thanks.
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Eric,
Salvation cannot be “purely from Allah” if Muslims “still need” to do x, y, or z. That is an oxymoron.
I am convinced Muslims cannot really define what salvation in Islam entails without utter contradiction, as seen in these comments
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intellect,
Muslims don’t have free will. Inshallah you will come to learn that (get it?)
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This Hadith is like Ephesians 2:8-9, we are saved by God’s grace not because of our own good deeds, that way no one has a right to boast in saying that their “good” deeds are better than someone else’s. Yet, at the same time good deeds or works are an expression of our faith in God.
When looked at without the filtered lenses of any religious institution or commentary, the scriptures in fact say the same things. Salvation is free for all, not just exclusive to Christians or Muslims, as noted by Peter in Acts 10:34-35. Anyone who fears God and does what is right is accepted by Him.
It’s that simple, there’s no need to bitterly argue about this or that. If you truly represent or believe in your respective faith, then obey the commands you are taught and everyone can coexist in peace. Jesus put it best when he said “treat others the way you’d like to be treated”, as that is the essence of the entire scriptures. Likewise, the 2 greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbour as yourself, everything else falls into place after that, and this can be practised by people of any faith.
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Mark
You said;
Salvation cannot be “purely from Allah” if Muslims “still need” to do x, y, or z. That is an oxymoron.
I say;
Do Christians have to murder, commit armed robbery, commit adultery, child sex like the Church Fathers are doing, rape, incest etc. to be saved? or Christians have to stop all the above and repent despite Jesus dying for their sins?
It is oxymoron for Jesus death for the sins of the world than Muslims who have to do good and desist from doing bad because satan is the one who convinces a freewill and a choice human being to do bad and follow him(Satan) and God sent his prophets to guide us to the right path and by believing in God, His Mercy will guide us to do the right and less wrong.
Yes, Muslims need to do x, y, or z for God Mercy and the x, y, or z prevents Muslims from being tempted and taken by Satan. I do not think a blood can do that.
Quran 35:6
Sahih International: Indeed, Satan is an enemy to you; so take him as an enemy. He only invites his party to be among the companions of the Blaze.
Mark. Do you want us not do to anything for Allah? We are not zombies, neither are we without choice and freewill. We must obey Allah and do Good thing otherwise there will be no heaven and hell for those who do good and bad.
Bad person who raped and kill someone’s wife without sincere repentance must be punished either here or hereafter. Is that not so? If so man, is required to do x, y, z and Christians must to x, y, and z as well but In Islam Allah guides(Mercy) His servant who obey him out of his choice and freewill to choose Him(God) instead of choosing Satan who instructs us to do bad things.
You said;
intellect,
Muslims don’t have free will. Inshallah you will come to learn that (get it?)
I say;
Muslims just like any human being has choice and freewill to either follow God truth and Satanic lies but InshaAllah(God’s will) Muslims follow God’s truth instead of Satanic lies.
God wills everything but we are responsible for our choice and freewill because God has instructed you not to rape someone’s wife and He gave you the chance to sincere repent for forgiveness and you refused and continue to rape people wife and you are responsible for that.
Doing x, y, z like prayers, fasting, zakat, reading the Quran constantly etc. can help you from raping someone’s wife if you are sincere.
Thanks.
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Transcendence
Thanks. The problem is with Christians who says without the blood of Jesus no one is save and they include Moses, Abraham and all prophets of God who do not believed Jesus blood saved them. It is no where in scripture that Abraham believed Jesus will die and save him.
Muslims believe Abraham, Isaac, Solomon and all prophets of God and their followers who believed God is one, only and alone and do good of course will be saved. They do not have to believe in prophet Mohammed then because he was not born at that time.
Muslims believed as you said above any one who believed in One God and do good will be saved but Christians refused that and claim it is the only blood of Jesus that can save humans and by so doing they put all prophets of God to hell because all of the prophets of God do not believe it is only the blood of Jesus that can save them.
Muslims are closer to what you said but Christians are the wicked ones with wicked God here who will commit suicide or murder his child before he forgives sins and after that he could not forgive sins without repentance and left Christians with so much sins he could not prevent them from doing sins.
The blood of Jesus is unnecessary.
Thanks.
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Intellect, the ultimate problem comes down to the individual rather than the belief itself. Even within the same religion, people have different beliefs about how to practise their faith. That is why some say no two people truly practise the same faith, what is kept is the essence of that faith, as I already mentioned above.
If you say something like “Christians are the wicked ones” you are doing a very good job of cointinuing the cycle of ignorance and hatred, and causing a barrier between yourself and people who do not believe what you believe. It is people who say things like you do, whether Christian or Muslim, that continue this cycle and prevent room for others to respect each other’s faith and live in peace.
It is clearly possible to respect someone’s belief even if you don’t believe what they believe, but not when you say something like “Christians are the wicked ones”.
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Transcendence
I am very sorry from the bottom of my heart to offend a person of dialog like you. I know and understand what you are saying. In this world and on this blog we have different types of Christians and Muslims and some are very bad.
I thought you are as that bad like Robert Wells and evangelical Christian Zionist of the US who voted for war in Iraq to kill Muslims and spread Christianity by force and now following the actions of barbaric isis to push for war in Iran which they were doing before the creation of isis and now they support extreme Christian like Ben Carson and Mad Trump to go to war with Iran anc cause Muslim refugees there and ban Muslims from entering all Christian majority countries.
They did it in Europe. So I respond to fundamental Christians like how they respond to Muslims here. I am very sorry to distinguish you from the rest wicked Christians and wicked Muslims like isis.
If I see your name I will resist from using fundamental Christian language but dialog. The above is the reason is why sometimes I reply with the language of self declared hater of all Muslims like Robert Wells here on this blog.
Thanks.
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Intellect it’s fine but a piece of advice, you don’t need to drop down to the same level as other people just because they’re being mean or disrespectful to you or your religion.
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. – Romans 12:21
Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. – Galatians 6:9
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Christians differentiate between justification and sanctification, Intellect. That should answer your objections.
As far as I can tell, Islamic theology vis-a-vis soteriology, is completely different.
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Transcendence “Likewise, the 2 greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbour as yourself, everything else falls into place after that, and this can be practised by people of any faith.”
The greatest commandment is to love God, yes, but “… with all your mind”. My opinion: This cannot be practiced by most Christians of the trinitarian kind
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With the Name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Mark,
Of course everything is from Allah, because He has absolute knowledge of all affairs. Whether it be past, present, or future and nothing occurs except by the Will of Allah, the Most High, this is the principle of belief of Sunni Islam, Ahl-AsSunnah wa’l-Jama’ah .. and I don’t think that is also not a difficult concept for anyone to understand.
Now what about the concept of free will? Yes muslims too subscribe to the understanding that humans are free to choose their path and destiny ..but.. since Allah is all-knowing all of human actions and deeds have already been recorded and written down by Allah, and this recording has been done even before we were ever created.
In Islam, Allah all-powerful, and all-knowing attributes naturally entail everything that happens before they happen by virtue of His all knowing perfect knowledge. Allah does not need to wait until you do something then He will learn about it later, if that were the case, this would then mean that God is not all knowing then he cannot be God.
God in Islam has all the knowledge of how this universe (He has created) will unfold. God knows all of the initial conditions of this universe and he has the knowledge to determine what will happen in this universe, therefore God knows how each human being will act (according to their free-will within their finite universe) and the decisions of each human at every single instant in time.
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