Consider:
God did not ask himself, in Gethsemane, to spare Jesus from the fate of the cross; Jesus did ask God, in Gethsemane, to spare him from the fate of death on the cross.
God doesn’t pray to himself; during his ministry, Jesus often prayed to God.
Ergo Jesus and God differ.
Blogging Theology 
If only Richard Bauckham and co. reasoned like this
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indeed – they are Christian theologians not philosophers
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“Ergo Jesus and God differ.”
And?
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do you agree?
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Agree with what? You haven’t made a point.
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😂😂😂
That is the point. You don’t get the point. Jesus IS NOT GOD
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TFK
According to the quran, jesus is god’s spirit breathed into human flesh, he is the word of god, and he was taken up to be with god.
USurely, you don’t believe that allah’s spirit is not divine, that his word is not eternal and divine, and that a mere human being can be in god’s presence?
Even the quran has to tell the truth, despite man-made interpolations that try to twist it.
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and when did the quran say that the “ruh” = god?
the goof bag wrote :
Humans pray, the word of god as the perfect human prayed since he was the perfect example for human conduct. There’s no mystery here.
here is the problem goof bag. human beings have gone to the their DEATHS without a god filling them or without god BECOMING them and they are WILLINGLY able to go to their DEATHS without even begging god to remove the cup
so who should be emulated? your 2 natured man-god or 1 nature human being ?
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yhwh = invisible being.
yhwh is not a beginingless 2 natured thing
according to you, he BECAME a human being . did yhwh FULLY experience FEAR, remorse , regret, and transferred these feelings to his other nature?
how is it possible it went ONE way , but didn’t REVERSE ?
so yhwh is having crisis of faith and begging his dad for an ALTERNATIVE way because yhwh is losing faith in yhwhs plan , he becomes RELUCTANT.
was yhwh still in yhwhs presence when yhwh was wimping it/becoming reluctant ?
yhwh said “let there be light”
now how did yhwh CREATE the sun when yhwh is an IMMATERIAL being ?
how did yhwh IMPREGNATE his own MUM when he is an IMMATERIAL being ??
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the fristian wrote :
you don’t believe that allah’s spirit is not divine, that his word is not eternal and divine, and that a mere human being can be in god’s presence?
but, but , but kev, yhwh = invisible being and the DIVINE nature and the CREATED being DO NOT mix
nothing CREATED mixes with the DIVINE being remember?
or is yhwh one with jesus just like a husband and wife is one in marriage ?
so the feelings are transferable and yhwh senses human touch, taste, smell, etc etc ??
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Jesus(The Son) was praying to the Father. Cmon Bilal this is basic stuff that you as an ex-Christian should know and understand.
Quite frankly the more I read your articles the more sceptical I am about whether you genuinely were a Christian to begin with.
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Does the father pray to the son?
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Humans pray, the word of god as the perfect human prayed since he was the perfect example for human conduct. There’s no mystery here.
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so Jesus was praying to himself?
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“Humans pray, the word of god as the perfect human prayed since he was the perfect example for human conduct. There’s no mystery here.”
does any one understand this nonsense?
“perfect human” who is god also knew he had a CONTRADICTORY nature which was 0 % human ?
“perfect example” ? same person who is human is also 0 % human
when the SAME person was praying , what was the same person who was 0 % human DOING ? was he no longer incarnate? was he praying ? was he chatting with the holy spirit? what was he doing ?
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same person praying , but same person who is 0 % human was….?
same person was praying to SAME person?
same person was trusting and depending on SAME person who was 0 % human ?
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“Jesus(The Son) was praying to the Father.”
same person who is 0 % human but 100 % co-equal to father was praying through the same person who is 100 % human to another person who is not 1 person in , 2natures, but reside in the sky in heaven ?
so there are like 2 gods communicating with each other, right?
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Bilal,
You are such a disingenuous sly old bastard who needs to seriously repent.
You follow a false moon god, preached by a false pedophile prophet, according to a false satanic book.
Complete exercise in futility arguing with Islamic zealots like you.
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Paul
“Does the father pray to the son?”
Don’t you guys get tired of posting the same nonsense? Allah prays – according to the quran.
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You avoided answering my question.
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I answered your question. Allah prayed – what’s your point?
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silly troll
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lol “Jesus(The Son) was praying to the Father”
yep i get it… two personal distinct gods…one god praying to another god lol…
your a pagan if you believe in this polytheistic nonsense ZS…
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paul , banned that bastard zelda and that bitch kev.
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Philippians 2:6 explains this.
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your god through his invisible mind seek his father through the invisible human mind .
what MIND did god use to experience the human mind ? he couldn’t have replaced his brain with a human brain, he had to begin with an invisible infinite mind, right?
so your god using his infinite mind, prayed through a finite mind.
remember the human mind never co-existed with your god infinitely .
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I can’t see how it does
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Just read Philippians 2:1-11. Its pretty self explanatory. Jesus is God but emptied himself becoming a servant.
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“Its pretty self explanatory. Jesus is God but emptied himself becoming a servant.”
Not so. Philippians 2:9:
“Therefore God also highly exalted him
and gave him the name
that is above every name..”
Note it is *God* who exalted Jesus. God did not exalt himself. God then *gave him* the name. He did not have the name before – a new status.
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my son is greater than me.
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How is this even in the Bible? Nobody was around to have witnessed it.
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a very good point!
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I did email you about this issue a little while back… thought it might have made for its own blog entry.
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Abu
That’s a strange objection.
Where are the witnesses to the claims of the quran?
Wait, don’t tell me, let’s all go circular….”the quran is true so it doesn’t need witnesses to prove it!!!!!”
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Kev,
That’s a strange objection to my objection (and dumb as usual). We can say Allāh is the Witness for the Qur’ān, because it at least makes that claim for itself. Not so with your “Gospels.”
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Abu
Like I said, circular. Worse still, you are absolutely serious – I had hoped that you were being satirical, tha would have been more fun, but you are serious as a corpse.
Your argument is “the quran is true because it says it’s true!!!”
When did you abandon logical thinking? Was it after you converted?
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At what point did I use the word true?
You just must really enjoy knocking down strawmen of your own creation… all in an attempt to distract me from the fact that you haven’t even attempted to address the actual issue I actually raised.
You’re really pathetic, y’know?
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Abu
What I notice is how quickly you resort to insults.
But if you’re not arguing for the truth of the quran then what point are you trying to make? Are you even trying to make a point?
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Well, you certainly aren’t making a point, so I don’t know why you bothered responding in the first place. Try answering the question I asked in the first place.
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Gentlemen, please.
Lets move on.
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I’ll move on if the troll addresses the actual issue I raised (which is relevant to the post) instead of throwing out some lame half-baked attempt at tu quoque bullcrap.
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I notice that the muslims on this blog merely repeat the same question over and over even though it has already been answered. Maybe you missed the ramifications of your objection, which I addressed in my first comment.
If credibility is dependent on witnesses, then the quran has none, regardless of the circularity of self-reference as a defence. Do you see the thin ice you are walking on?
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No. Because you’re too stupid to refrain from comparing apples to oranges. And I addressed your silly “objection.” You just didn’t get it. The ice I’m walking on is as thick as you.
My question hasn’t been answered.
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Paul Williams
“Gentlemen, please.
Lets move on.”
Fair enough.
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