ISIS, Slavery, and Islamic Abolitionism

reblogged from The Huffington Post

By Usaama al-Azami PhD Candidate in Near Eastern Studies, Princeton University

Does Islam sanction slavery? Until recently, this question would have been seen as somewhat outlandish or else academic. It is akin to the question: does Christianity sanction slavery? Aside from the odd embarrassing right-wing talk show host in the US, the latter question does not generally arise these days except in academic and theological discussions.

In a perspicacious and amusingly devious piece, The Economist points out that a “hyper-literal” reading of scripture would render Judaism and Christianity liable to practicing slavery, too.

That the overwhelming majority of modern Muslims reject slavery does not make them that different to adherents of other religions today. One may extrapolate from this that it does not make ISIS “Islamic” in anything other than an academic sense. The same sense in which, say, the KKK is Christian.

The modern rejection of slavery, then, has been true for virtually all modern Muslim countries until very recently, when ISIS (which claims for itself the title of “the Islamic State”), revived unreconstructed medieval legal interpretations that have been obsolete since modern states throughout the Muslim world banned slavery over the past 200 years.

I stress that these are legal interpretations of the Prophet Muhammad’s legacy, not the legacy itself, for which abolitionist interpretations are the most dominant today. Again, this is true for modern interpretations of Judaism and Christianity, as well.

In a late 2014 issue of its English-speaking magazine, ISIS elaborated a justification for reviving slavery in the present day, and as the New York Times details in a lengthy story in the past month, they have systematically put their slave-holding beliefs in practice. In painful detail, the Times documents the horrors of ISIS’ practice of sexual slavery including the abuse of girls as young as 11. ISIS attempts to justify its horrific acts in the name of scripture. But to what extent is their reading of scripture reasonable?

The trouble with expert opinion

To answer this question, the Times consulted two experts with opposing views. The first, Kecia Ali, an associate professor at Boston University, and a leading expert on Islam and slavery states that, “In the milieu in which the Quran arose, there was a widespread practice of men having sexual relationships with unfree women,” adding: “It wasn’t a particular religious institution. It was just how people did things.”

As a counter view, the Times author cites a colleague of mine at Princeton, Cole Bunzel, who is a specialist in Wahhabi theology and an expert on ISIS. He points to centuries of Islamic legal scholarship that took for granted that slavery was perfectly acceptable.

The Economist, which usually strikes a better tone than most when dealing with Islamic issues, does something similar to the Times in an article from a week or so later. To its credit, it notes that Muslim scholars–it uses the term “preachers”–have been clamorous in their rejection of ISIS’ slave practices.

But then, in asking whether ISIS does in fact “adhere to Islamic tradition,” they also cite two opposing views. The first is a Muslim scholar and theologian–a graduate from a Saudi Salafi seminary with a doctorate from Yale–who they characterize as an “apologist” and refer to as “Mr [Yasir] Qadhi.” The Economist appears unaware that he happens to be an assistant professor at Rhodes College in Tennessee. This Muslim theologian elaborates the argument that Islam advocates abolition.

The opposing view is presented in the newspaper by an Israeli academic, “Professor Ehud Toledano” who is undoubtedly an expert on the history of Islamic slavery. This passage is worth quoting in full:

Other scholars insist, however, that [ISIS’] treatment of Yazidis adheres to Islamic tradition. “They are in full compliance with Koranic understanding in its early stages,” says Professor Ehud Toledano, a leading authority on Islamic slavery at Tel Aviv University. Moreover, “what the Prophet has permitted, Muslims cannot forbid.” The Prophet’s calls to release slaves only spurred a search for fresh stock as the new empire spread, driven by commerce, from sub-Saharan Africa to the Persian Gulf. [My italics.]

For both papers, it is somewhat ironic that Muslims are the ones advocating a form of Islam that rejects slavery, and non-Muslim scholars are attempting to justify ISIS’ actions on Islamic grounds. Kecia Ali’s recent article on ISIS and slavery, written after she was cited by the Times, makes a useful point in this connection. She states:

It is one thing for committed religious thinkers to insist that scripture must always and everywhere apply literally, but it is ludicrous for purportedly objective scholars to do so. Anyone making that argument about biblical slavery would be ridiculed.

In making an academic point about Islamic history, both Bunzel and Toledano are also intervening in a current Islamic debate in which they are unintentionally siding with ISIS over the global Muslim community and its scholars.

As Kecia Ali is suggesting, surely it is Muslims who decide on how their religion is to be understood. It is one thing to describe the historical state of affairs in the Islamic legal tradition; it is entirely something else to intervene in a live Islamic argument, and take what most Muslims would consider the wrong side–a side that is also viewed as morally repugnant by most of the globe, including the commentators themselves. This is all the more dangerous given the dramatic rise of Islamophobia in the Western world in recent years.

Academics and public statements on Islam

While their citations provide useful material for understanding ISIS’ perverse theology, such generalizations about Islam can unwittingly give scholarly cover for Islamophobia, leaving the anti-ISIS Muslim majority to pick up the pieces. “These Muslims, and their leading theologians, can declare ISIS’ beliefs un-Islamic, but what do they know compared to Western academics?”

The editorial choice to give such academic voices equal weight in deciding this issue seems highly problematic. It would not be viewed as reasonable in the case of either Judaism or Christianity. As noted earlier, The Economist astutely points out in a previous article that this applies one rule to Muslims and another rule to Jews and Christians when it comes to violent passages in their scriptures.

Given the rise of Islamophobia in recent years, it seems that academics, non-Muslim and Muslim, bear an additional burden of contextualizing when they step out of the ivory tower to speak publicly on Islamic issues.

Abolitionism in modern Islam

Thus, while there is no denying that slavery existed in the medieval world in which Islam emerged, the vast majority of Muslims scholars today, like their counterparts in Judaism and Christianity, roundly reject slavery.

They argue that the Islamic scriptures’ emphasis has always been the emancipation of slaves, although medieval Muslim scholars, like contemporaneous Jewish and Christian scholars, did not push for abolition. Modern Muslim scholars, on the other hand, reject slavery and condemn ISIS’ practices.

An oft-quoted maxim of Islamic jurisprudence informs Muslim jurists that legal rulings change with time and place. Hence, it is less relevant, according to Islamic law as practiced by Muslims throughout Islamic history, what scripture says, and more a question of how it applies to a given context.

In this respect, Muslim scholars over the past century have developed systematic and scripturally rigorous arguments to say that while slavery existed in the time of the Prophet, and was widely practiced by all religious traditions in the Middle East, this is no longer acceptable today.

As an outsider, one may find the argumentation more or less convincing with respect to scripture, but what really matters is what Muslims think; and Muslims have overwhelmingly come to accept such a proposition in their practice. In fact, the abolition of slavery has been declared a matter of juristic consensus, which raises the legal authority of such an opinion to the unimpeachable level of scripture itself.

Using the academic point that ISIS identifies with Islam to suggest that this vanishingly small minority of Muslims are on an equal footing with the rest of the world’s Muslims comes dangerously close to supporting ISIS’ extreme view of the religion. This would be akin to saying the KKK are representative of Christians, since they too, like their anti-abolitionist predecessors, would support their arguments with scripture.

Slavery in Islamic History

The Economist, in its most recent treatment of the issue of slavery implies that, in part, slavery persisted in Muslim lands because sometimes being a slave was highly desirable. It notes that there were cases in which being a slave was “[a] path to power.” This is in stark contrast with the recent Western experience of slavery, which was an overwhelmingly negative one for slaves.

Yasir Qadhi, the theologian cited earlier, notes that the majority of Caliphs in 1300 years of Muslim history were the offspring of slaves. The same is true with respect to many senior figures in the political and military establishment.

Being a slave in a Sultan’s harem could make a woman quasi-royalty, and the possible mother of a future sultan. Such possibilities were frequently realized. The glamorous end of servitude made harsher forms of peonage simply fall on a spectrum that had both good and bad.

Such factors explain why the Muslim world was late in joining the emerging Western liberal consensus in the 19th century that slavery was a scourge on humanity. For many Muslims it must have been a difficult argument to make sense of.

Indeed, it must have seemed to a privileged class of late Ottomans that the West was simply bent on destroying the means of social mobility that had ensured their own success. Abolishing such a system would prevent the often marginal communities they originated from enjoying such privileges in the future.

Many of these privileges arose as a consequence of the Prophet Muhammad’s active amelioration of the conditions of servitude in 7th century Arabia. Haroon Moghul explores some of the regulations Muhammad introduced in his excellent piece: “Why it (still) makes little sense to call ISIS Islamic.”

Among other things, he deals with the serious charge that Islam sanctions rape. This, he shows, is not only rejected by modern Muslims and their scholars; it has no sanction in the teachings of Muhammad.

Once again, this does not mean that medieval interpretations of Islam did not have problems in how they conceived of the ideas of consent, rape, and underage sex; but these interpretations are not particularly relevant to how modern Muslims conceive of their tradition. Nor is this a uniquely Islamic problem.

The notions of consent, rape, and underage marriage as we understand them today only arose in the last few decades challenging not only religion, but earlier interpretations of Liberalism. For modern followers of any tradition, whether it be Islam, Christianity, or Liberalism, the relevant question is not so much: what did past adherents think, but how should we understand our tradition today?

On all of these issues, in addition to slavery, the view of Muslim scholars is that there is no religious requirement to maintain past ideas. The task of Muslim scholars is to interpret Prophetic teachings in a way that is suitable for our times, while remaining faithful to those teachings.

Once again, what constitutes faithfulness to these teachings is a judgment that Muslims must make, and the vast majority of them have no problem making such judgments in a way that harmonizes with modern international law.

Speaking out against slave-like conditions

This brings us to another issue. In the article already cited, The Economist also discusses the prevalence of worker abuse in many Muslim countries, as is the case with migrant workers in the Gulf, and notes that though this is not technically slavery, it is “slave-like.”

This, the paper speculates, owes something to the history of proslavery practices in medieval Islam. The article concludes by asking: “Is it too much to hope that the Islamic clerics denouncing slavery might also condemn other instances of forced and abusive labour?”

This is an important question for Muslim scholars that too few are dealing with. Why might this be? In the same paragraph, The Economist concedes that with respect to such issues, “Western governments generally have other priorities.”

Sadly, many Muslim scholars are not that different, and sometimes it is difficult to fault them too much. Western governments wish to maintain cozy economic and geostrategic relations with its allies in the region, despite their abysmal domestic human rights records.

Similarly, most scholars in the Middle East are usually too beholden to these states to say anything against them. In the autocratic cultures that have re-entrenched after the short-lived democratic experiments in the region, free speech has been curtailed even more dramatically than before. Few people are willing to undertake the thankless task of speaking out about workers rights.

One of the few exceptions of a local scholar speaking out against the abuse of workers in the Gulf is found in a remark by Tariq Ramadan, who is the director of an Islamic research centre in Doha, besides his teaching post at Oxford University.

He stated in a lecture at the Qatar Foundation in 2014 that there was a need for greater “self-criticism,” that “human rights violations are against Islamic principles and ethical standards,” and that there was a “need to teach people that such practices are completely unacceptable on religious and moral grounds.”

But such statements are extremely rare to find. This issue is not one that has been taken up by scholars in the region, and it may be easier for a Western ‘expatriate’ scholar like Tariq Ramadan to say such things in English rather than Arabic.

A scholar’s responsibility

Islamic scholars can’t be let off the hook so easily, however. Indeed they have a lot to answer for. The Islamic scholars’ self-image, past and present, has been that of the moral standard bearer in society. Such a claimed status naturally brings responsibilities.

In this regard, they have often been failing miserably, and the recurring crises of the Muslim world should be a wake-up call for them. This is arguably also the case for Muslim scholars and academics in the West, though this is unfortunatelycontroversial in Western academia.

It is not difficult to find reasons to be highly critical about the abuse of migrant workers on religious as well as more generally ethical grounds. One may cite the Prophetic statement exhorting a person to pay and otherwise render rights owed to hired workers, “before their sweat has dried.”

By contrast, many workers in Qatar, the richest country per capita in the world, wait months to be paid. The commentary on the Prophetic statement notes that delayed or reduced payments constitute cruelty, oppression, and the abuse of trust, all of which are condemned in scripture in no uncertain terms.

Muslim scholars in the Gulf, where migrant workers are routinely abused, and have frequently died in large numbers due to unsafe working conditions, should speak publicly about such matters, and use the potency of religiously grounded arguments to raise public awareness regarding such issues. This could lead to real change, while empowering Muslim scholars with ethical agency in their communities.

Returning to the original question of this piece: does Islam sanction slavery? Muslims today, like their counterparts in other major religions, overwhelmingly respond in the negative. In combating the blight that is ISIS, it serves everyone better if their attempts at reviving slavery today on Islamic grounds are understood for the anachronism they are, and treated as they should be, with scorn and ridicule.



Categories: Islam

40 replies

  1. Maybe you can answer this question…

    Why did the Last Caliphate in the last century never officially outlaw Black Slavery? And why black slavery persist in the Ottomon empire until its demise?

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  2. I dont know. What’s the answer?

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  3. Because slavery is Halah from Allah

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    • Bobby yes it is technically permissible (but I am not scholar so I could be wrong). The Quran emphasises the emancipation of slaves in numerous verses and hadith so Islamic teaching is subversive of slavery.

      However, the NT simply tells slaves to “obey” their masters, and nowhere condemns slavery. Paul in Romans 13 seems to think it comes from God.

      Do you know better than the Bible?

      Liked by 1 person

  4. From my understanding, it was something to do with the fact the majority of slaves in the pre-industrialized Empire at that time were black thus it would have led to a huge impact on the economy of an already collapsing Empire. However, don’t get it twisted; it was not only black slavery that weren’t abolished but those of other ehtnicities. It’s important to mention this in case some Islamophobic bigot gets over-excited.

    And to further the Islamophobes’ and white supremacists’ excitement (though in some cases there’s no difference), the reason for white slavery being abolished would have been linked to European intervention at that time and Europe’s influence on the Empire. Not because they thought white people were better and others were lesser. And in any case, the abolition of enslaving the African pagans was called for by the Empire roughly 20 years after stopping white slavery.

    Hardly something to write home about for the Islamophobe.

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  5. This on’e more readable I think…

    From my understanding, it was something to do with the fact the majority of slaves in the pre-industrialized Empire at that time were black thus it would have led to a huge impact on the economy of an already collapsing Empire. However, don’t get it twisted; it was not only black slavery that wasn’t abolished but that of other ehtnicities. It’s important to mention this in case some Islamophobic bigot gets over-excited.

    And to further dampen the Islamophobes’ and white supremacists’ excitement (though in some cases there’s no difference), the reason for white slavery being abolished would have been linked to European intervention at that time and Europe’s influence on the Empire. Not because they thought white people were better and others were lesser. And in any case, the abolition of enslaving the African pagans was called for by the Empire roughly 20 years after stopping white slavery.

    Hardly something to write home about for the Islamophobe.

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  6. There’s a good clip of Dr Yasir Qadhi, I would post it but I’m not at home, in which he says the Sharia allows for the scrapping of slavery (slavery is not something that has to do exist for Islam to exist) so Islam has no problem for world nations to agree to stop slavery.

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  7. Paul Williams wrote…

    “The Quran emphasises the emancipation of slaves…”

    My Response: And yet the last Caliphate never officially ended Black Slavery, and never universally emancipated those that where slaves. Also it should be noted that the only reason the last Caliphate even restricted black slavery and ended white slavery was do the pressure by the kuffar nations who had ended slavery over a half a century before the end of the last Caliphate in the last century.

    Paul Williams continued… ” in numerous verses and hadith so Islamic teaching is subversive of slavery. “”

    My response: The only verses and hadith (that I am aware of), that deal with freeing slaves has to do with paying a penalty or giving an offering for some kind of sin. So instead of ending slavery such verses would only perpetuate slavery. Think about it, you commit a sin free a slave and buy another one to free the next time you commit a sin. Kind of like buying slaves to free them. Just creates a market for more slaves.

    Now if I’m wrong then please correct me and supply verses from Quran or an authentic hadeeth with chain of narration that demonstrate the freeing of slaves with out the precursor of some form of restitution or payment for sins.

    Paul Wrote…

    “However, the NT simply tells slaves to “obey” their masters, and nowhere condemns slavery. Paul in Romans 13 seems to think it comes from God.”

    My response: This is known as the tu quoque fallacy. Paul could you please try and respond with out creating false dilemma’s or logical fallacies? Because even if your interpretation is correct. It does nothing to absolve Islam of the real dilemma presented by the fact, that the last Caliphate of the last century never officially outlawed black slavery and that black slavery continued until the Caliphates final demise.

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  8. “The only verses and hadith (that I am aware of), that deal with freeing slaves has to do with paying a penalty or giving an offering for some kind of sin.”

    There are other verses, for example Surah 90:12-13,18; that characterize emancipation as one of the core requirements of attaining Paradise i.e. salvation itself. Unlike emancipation, there are NO verses in the Quran that associate enslavement with virtue and/or salvation.

    “It does nothing to absolve Islam of the real dilemma presented by the fact, that the last Caliphate of the last century never officially outlawed black slavery and that black slavery continued until the Caliphates final demise.”

    What do you mean by absolve Islam, as if Islam is a person that is capable of making mistakes? Also, the Caliphate is dead and has been so for quite sometime. What happened centuries ago is of no consequence to the well-being of the average Muslim today. Contemporary Muslim scholars are united in their opposition to slavery and that is what matters.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Khundkar wrote…

    “There are other verses, for example Surah 90:12-13,18; that characterize emancipation as one of the core requirements of attaining Paradise i.e. salvation itself….”

    My Response: Here is what Surah 90:12-18 says….

    And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?
    It is the freeing of a slave
    Or feeding on a day of severe hunger
    An orphan of near relationship
    Or a needy person in misery
    And then being among those who believed and advised one another to patience and advised one another to compassion.
    Those are the companions of the right.

    Notice verses 14-16, so you can free a slave, or feed someone who is in severe hunger, a orphan of a close relationship, or a needy person. So the verse is not FREE ALL SLAVES, or put an end to slavery it is one of a few options to earn your good deeds. So again this just creates perpetual slavery, since you can buy more slaves and then free one slave as a good deed.

    Khundkar wrote…

    “as if Islam is a person that is capable of making mistakes?”

    My response: Islam is a mistake, one of if not the biggest mistake in history.

    Khundkar wrote…

    Also, the Caliphate is dead and has been so for quite sometime….

    My response: Some Muslims would say that the Caliphate is alive and well, and kind of funny how the new caliphate in this new century is practicing slavery just like the last caliphate of the last century as well as all other Caliphates from any point in time of history.

    Khundkar wrote…

    “What happened centuries ago is of no consequence to the well-being of the average Muslim today.”

    My response: NO what happened a century or even centuries ago when it comes to the Islamic Caliphate is of grave consequence to average Muslims, since it is average Muslims who long for, dream of, and fantasies about the return of the Caliphate.

    Khudkar wrote…

    “Contemporary Muslim scholars are united in their opposition to slavery and that is what matters.”

    My response: Since there is no Islamic prohibition against owning slaves, since slavery is very much apart of Islam, what ever scholar you run too will have to admit that slavery is permissible in Islam under the Caliphate. To say other wise would make them an INNOVATOR, your not a Biddah Muslim are you?

    Khudkar a little advice your dealing with an Islamophobe, not some average Joe Schmo who knows nothing about Islam. So try harder, really try harder.

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  10. Khundkar here is one more point. If slavery is Haram in Islam then how can a Muslim fullfill the verses our cited on freeing a slave to earn good deeds? If you respond with words to the effect of “there are other ways to earn good deeds, like feeding the needy orphans etc…” then there is no reason to free a slave since there are other ways to earn good deeds.

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  11. Moslems are commanded to end the captivity of slaves automatically (by free manumission – the ascending path – or by ransom) only when the war is over. Slave market is not available in Islam.

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  12. Slavery (captivity) during the wartime is unavoidable lest the prisoner of war that has surrendered would have been killed.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Robert Wells

    You said;
    Notice verses 14-16, so you can free a slave, or feed someone who is in severe hunger, a orphan of a close relationship, or a needy person. So the verse is not FREE ALL SLAVES, or put an end to slavery it is one of a few options to earn your good deeds. So again this just creates perpetual slavery, since you can buy more slaves and then free one slave as a good deed.

    I say;
    Show me where Islam says buy slaves and keep them. But you can clearly see and read Islam advocates the freeing of slaves. If you are holding a harmful thing in your hand and I asked you to throw it away and also preaching of throwing such things away, it does not necessarily mean I should tell you not to pick those harmful things again. You are really an Islamophobe who twists verses of the Quran for your whims and caprice.

    You see in Islam everything is gradual because Allah has patience and understands human situations and try to deal with every situation. Before Islam, slavery was a major trade in Arabia and the world over and it is like wall street stock at that time, so stopping it abruptly will cause a lot of problems to the dealers especially someone who has put all his capital into slave trade. Such person or people will wake up one day without anything and the slaves will not have anyone to take care of them, and there might be stealing, robbery and rape etc.

    So, what Islam did is to deal with all this situation and stress on freeing slaves and treating slaves as good as yourself and that let the faithful Muslims to start treating their slaves as their brothers and eventually freeing them.

    Some Muslims took the steps of the prophet and freed their slaves and some freed their slaves and some married their freed slaves and gradually most slaves was freed.

    Imagine if it was not gradual but abrupt, it was like wall street collapsing at that time and people especially, most traders(slave) would have all their money gone with one command and the impact would have much unwanted circumstances because no money to take care of this slaves and no food for them and their masters and stealing, robbery, rape and any social vices including lawlessness would have prevailed.

    Allah has knowledge and wisdom and did not let that to happen and stressed on freeing slaves and/or making them equal like yourself. Making a slave equal like your self is what we are all doing right now and today.

    How so?
    You go to work and have to work for your boss before you get paid, but your boss respect you as himself. SO ISLAM STRESS ON FREEING SLAVES AND IT DID NOT SAY BUY SLAVE BUT FREE SLAVE, SO LOGICALLY IF YOU ARE ASKED TO FREE A SLAVE IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD BUY A SLAVE. AND TREAT A SLAVE LIKE YOUR SELF. SO THAT, YOU CAN NOT OVERBURDEN HIM.

    Slavery is bad and Islam has abolished it in a careful and wise manner. Abolishing alcohol was also gradual where Allah said drink little and people start to abuse the little and the complete abolishing came. With slavery there is nothing like free a little but FREE SLAVES which Islam has instructed its followers and it is abolishing of slavery because it did not say buy slaves.

    Thanks

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Robert Wells

    You said;
    Khundkar here is one more point. If slavery is Haram in Islam then how can a Muslim fullfill the verses our cited on freeing a slave to earn good deeds? If you respond with words to the effect of “there are other ways to earn good deeds, like feeding the needy orphans etc…” then there is no reason to free a slave since there are other ways to earn good deeds.

    I say;
    The verse is to those who had slaves, but not to go buy slaves please. This is simple understanding my dear Islamophobe!!!
    You do not have to go buy slave because there is no where in our literature that said so.

    Thanks.

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  15. Amen wrote…

    “Moslems are commanded to end the captivity of slaves automatically (by free manumission – the ascending path – or by ransom) only when the war is over. Slave market is not available in Islam.”

    My response: Nonsense utter un realistic un historical nonsense. It is well documented that open air slave markets existed in every Caliphate. Second slave RAIDS ordered by the CALIPH himself persisted up until the 1870’s in the Ottomon empire, all though slavery still existed until its demise.

    Amen wrote…

    Slavery (captivity) during the wartime is unavoidable lest the prisoner of war that has surrendered would have been killed.

    My response: Thank you for promoting ISIS ideology. See how Muslims agree with ISIS. But putting that aside, you do realize that you just admitted that Islam promotes, practices and utilizes war crimes. Thats right it is a WAR CRIME to enslave prisoners of war. IT IS A WAR CRIME TO KILL PRISONERS of war out right.

    So just another reason why ISLAM is incompatible with the ideals of the west and modern civilization.

    I should also point out that according to the Shafi School, the Calip has a few choice when it comes to prisoners of war.

    1.Let them go free
    2. Kill them
    3. Sell them as slaves
    3. Ransom for money or trade for Muslim prisoners of war.

    Also according to the Shafi school, woman who are taken captive if they are married their marriages are annulled at the moment of their capture, and the mothers their children are enslaved.

    And we learned from Paul Williams reblog that there is no rape of slave woman, its just property damage, not even criminal damage to property but just property damage.

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  16. Bobby – a personal question: is your barely suppressed outrage at the iniquities of Islam and slavery informed by your deeply held Christian beliefs?

    Liked by 1 person

  17. “Notice verses 14-16, so you can free a slave, or feed someone who is in severe hunger, a orphan of a close relationship, or a needy person. So the verse is not FREE ALL SLAVES, or put an end to slavery it is one of a few options to earn your good deeds. So again this just creates perpetual slavery, since you can buy more slaves and then free one slave as a good deed.”

    What the verse says or doesn’t say is for OUR scholars to determine, not you. Now what good reasons do we have for believing that the Quran encourages perpetual slavery? The position of contemporary scholars is that it was the intention of the Quran to gradually abolish slavery. Given that emancipation is associated with salvation and there are no verses that associate enslavement with virtue or salvation, it follows that the Quran had no intention to perpetuate this practice. Going by your logic, the Quran creates perpetual famine because the verse doesn’t say FEED ALL POOR!

    “My response: Islam is a mistake, one of if not the biggest mistake in history.”

    Too bad the Holy Spirit couldn’t do anything about it.

    “Since there is no Islamic prohibition against owning slaves, since slavery is very much apart of Islam, what ever scholar you run too will have to admit that slavery is permissible in Islam under the Caliphate. To say other wise would make them an INNOVATOR, your not a Biddah Muslim are you?”

    Again, you don’t get to decide what is allowed or prohibited in Islam. We have scholars for that and our scholars by large are opposed to the institution of slavery. When heavyweights like Abdullah Bin Bayah and Muhammad Al Yaqoubi, among others, have said no to slavery(and condemned the “caliphate” of ISIS), then all other opinions by absolute nobodies, Muslims and non-Muslims, simply don’t matter. There is no Bidah involved since slavery isn’t an integral part of the religion to begin with nor is it a custom of Muslims today.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. “Amen12345: Moslems are commanded to end the captivity of slaves automatically (by free manumission – the ascending path – or by ransom) only when the war is over. Slave market is not available in Islam.
    Robert Wells: Nonsense utter un realistic un historical nonsense. It is well documented that open air slave markets existed in every Caliphate. Second slave RAIDS ordered by the CALIPH himself persisted up until the 1870’s in the Ottomon empire, all though slavery still existed until its demise.”

    I can only think of a limited “permission” to the Badr-Vets for freely fornicating outside of marriage without getting sinned. At most they live 100 years after the war. Later generations of Moslems after those legendary vets are not getting the privilege, hence they must surely die as Moslem’s fornicators (if they don’t repent afterward).

    “Amen12345: Slavery (captivity) during the wartime is unavoidable lest the prisoner of war that has surrendered would have been killed.
    Robert Wells: Thank you for promoting ISIS ideology. See how Muslims agree with ISIS. But putting that aside, you do realize that you just admitted that Islam promotes, practices and utilizes war crimes. Thats right it is a WAR CRIME to enslave prisoners of war. IT IS A WAR CRIME TO KILL PRISONERS of war out right.
    So just another reason why ISLAM is incompatible with the ideals of the west and modern civilization.
    I should also point out that according to the Shafi School, the Calip has a few choice when it comes to prisoners of war.
    1.Let them go free
    2. Kill them
    3. Sell them as slaves
    3. Ransom for money or trade for Muslim prisoners of war.
    Also according to the Shafi school, woman who are taken captive if they are married their marriages are annulled at the moment of their capture, and the mothers their children are enslaved.
    And we learned from Paul Williams reblog that there is no rape of slave woman, its just property damage, not even criminal damage to property but just property damage.”

    Do you know adding a new rule against Qur’an is a great sin of Bid’at (making innovation)? It’s not a good Ijtihad to confront the sure guidance of salvation. Can a Moslem woman rape her male slaves (Ma Malakat Aymanuhunna, Qur’an 24:31; 33:55) after she bought them by her money in her house?

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  19. “Robert Wells: Also according to the Shafi school, woman who are taken captive if they are married their marriages are annulled at the moment of their capture, and the mothers their children are enslaved.”

    Prophet Muhammad always marry all women taken captive after wars. According to Qur’an 4:24, Moslems are prohibited to marry a married female slave (not widow) whose husband is still alive, hence Prophet Muhammad does not marry one married slave from Anbar, the region of Mesopotamia, Safiyah bint Bashshama.
    Tabaqat, 8:1554; Tabari, Vol. 9, p. 140.
    Ibn Abbas narrated: Muhammad proposed to Safiyya Bint Bashama Ibn Nadhla al-`Anbari, who was taken captive. The Messenger of God gave her the choice and said, Whom do you desire: me or your husband? She said, Nay, my husband, So he sent her away and Banu Tamim cursed her.

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  20. Paul Williams wrote…

    “Bobby – a personal question: is your barely suppressed outrage at the iniquities of Islam and slavery informed by your deeply held Christian beliefs?”

    My response. My outrage at Islam is not suppressed at all. As a Christian I have a deep outrage and repulsion at all things evil, especially when it comes to false religions and false prophets who mislead countless masses into denying the cross their only means of salvation.

    As far as slavery is in Islam is concerned, I don’t have to be a Christian to be outraged at Muslim men raping non Muslim slave woman and treating it simply as “property damage” not even criminal damage to property but just simply property damage.

    If I was a Hindu, a, Jew, a Buddhist etc… I would be outraged at Islams treatment of war captives in the here and now.

    The question is which you wont answer is why arent you outraged at this?

    Like

    • Bob thanks for your clarifying that you think your Christian faith informs your moral outrage against Islam and slavery.

      ‘Islamic State’ has apparently made slaves of Christians in Syria and Iraq.

      You will of course be exhorting these Christians, in the words of your New Testament, to the following:

      ‘You who are slaves must accept the authority of your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you–not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel.’

      1 Peter 2:18

      Liked by 2 people

  21. Paul forgot to add, so bring up your Old Testament passages on warfare and slavery. Come on do your best to deflect away from today horrors of Islam.

    Like

  22. “Robert Wells: As far as slavery is in Islam is concerned, I don’t have to be a Christian to be outraged at Muslim men raping non Muslim slave woman and treating it simply as “property damage” not even criminal damage to property but just simply property damage.”

    A Deity that is generous toward the prisons of war (enemy of war that surrenders) must be full of grace, and must be good toward civilians, women and children.
    Qur’an, Islam, Prophet Muhammad can’t give Allah’s prerogative grace into anyone, even Moslem’s soul. Harshness and radicalization are absence of Allah’s grace. Mostly the war changes the people a lot to a worse. In Islam the war is supposed to change Moslems a lot to a higher step of grace – giving the slaves a free manumission or a freedom by ransom.

    Like

  23. Robert Wells

    You said;
    My response. My outrage at Islam is not suppressed at all. As a Christian I have a deep outrage and repulsion at all things evil, especially when it comes to false religions and false prophets who mislead countless masses into denying the cross their only means of salvation.

    I say;
    Number one false prophet was Paul of Tarsus who never met Jesus Christ and was not a disciple of Jesus Christ but lied and said he saw him in vision. Why did Jesus Christ himself did not say this important thing that he is God/Man and incarnate to come and die to save peoples sin but some councils of Nicea, Chalcedon, Trent etc. to decide who God is. but God clearly said this

    1.”You alone [bad] is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
    1.”You alone [bad], Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
    1.”since indeed God is one [hen]” Romans 3:30
    2.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
    3.”there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
    2.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
    3.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
    4.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
    5.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
    2.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
    3.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
    4.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
    5.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4

    I have more unequivocal statements from the Bible that clearly states God is alone, One and only and therefore any one who do not follow the above and claim he saw Jesus in a vision and changed the above clear statements to God dying on the cross or God is 3 Persons in 1 as Paul of Tarsus is a false prophet.

    If Jesus or God died on the cross for Christians why are they sinning? Will the rape by the Pastors and Church Fathers already paid for by the cross? the parents of the victims would not have forgiven the cross.

    Cross.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHNm1KkgS6U

    Thanks

    Like

  24. Paul Williams wrote…

    You will of course be exhorting these Christians, in the words of your New Testament, to the following:

    ‘You who are slaves must accept the authority of your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you–not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel.’

    My response: Absolutely as it pertains with in the service of God. Because as Peter says in the next verse “For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly.”

    Like

  25. Paul I forgot to add…

    Now I’m sure your going to come back with something like “So if Muslim slave owners orders the Christian slave to sin then that means they have to do it” or some such nonsense. lol

    Like

  26. Robert Wells

    You said;
    Paul forgot to add, so bring up your Old Testament passages on warfare and slavery. Come on do your best to deflect away from today horrors of Islam.

    I say;
    You coward. You knew there are more horrors in Christianity rather than Islam and you already acknowledge it without any one providing any verse. There are worse verses in both old and new testament commanded by Jesus to kill people and you dare call other religion horrors. We have explained to you all your concerns about slavery and you refuse to accept but just to keep insulting Islam and ignoring worse verses like.

    Luke 19:27

    New International Version
    But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.'”

    New Living Translation
    And as for these enemies of mine who didn’t want me to be their king–bring them in and execute them right here in front of me.'”

    Very bad “Jesus” or God or God-Man or 3 Persons or 3 Beings who kill those who do not obey him

    Thanks

    Like

  27. Robert Wells

    You said;
    My response: Absolutely as it pertains with in the service of God. Because as Peter says in the next verse “For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly.”

    I say;
    Very hypocritical of you. You consider being slave in Christianity as service of God but slavery in Islam as bad. Very, very hypocritical of you and Christians who take delight in doing this.

    Thanks you.

    Like

  28. Intellect wrote…

    “You coward. You knew there are more horrors in Christianity rather than Islam and you already acknowledge it without any one providing any verse…..But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.’””

    My response: Yah man he is going to destroy you. Really he is going to DESTROY YOU. Repent and bend the knee and make him you king. For it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    Like

  29. Robert Wells, please study Islam and any other religions you might be outraged by to the point of obsession, from real, serious, balanced, scholarly sources.

    I’m pretty sure you’re neither an expert on the history of slavery or Islam.

    Like

  30. Robert Wells

    You said;
    My response: Yah man he is going to destroy you. Really he is going to DESTROY YOU. Repent and bend the knee and make him you king. For it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    I say;
    This is who can destroy me according to the Bible

    1.”You alone [bad] is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
    1.”You alone [bad], Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
    1.”since indeed God is one [hen]” Romans 3:30
    2.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
    3.”there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
    2.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
    3.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
    4.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
    5.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
    2.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
    3.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
    4.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
    5.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4

    Not this according to men

    Jesus, Man, God-Man, 3 Persons/persons God, Trinity, 3 Beings/beings 1 God, hypostasis, 100% Man/100% God(impossibility, rubbish, nonsense or hybrid creature), dead God, dead man, dead man God etc.

    Which are all not in the Bible but created by men to define God the way they like.

    So I believe in this to save me
    1.”You alone [bad] is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
    1.”You alone [bad], Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
    1.”since indeed God is one [hen]” Romans 3:30
    2.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
    3.”there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
    2.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
    3.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
    4.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
    5.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
    2.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
    3.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
    4.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
    5.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4

    Not this which are not in the Bible and cannot save me and neither can it destroy me because the Bible did not say they are God

    Jesus, Man, God-Man, 3 Persons/persons God, Trinity, 3 Beings/beings 1 God, hypostasis, 100% Man/100% God(impossibility, rubbish, nonsense or hybrid creature), dead God, dead man, dead man God etc.

    Thanks

    Like

  31. poiterFrance wrote…

    “Robert Wells, please study Islam and any other religions you might be outraged by to the point of obsession, from real, serious, balanced, scholarly sources.

    I’m pretty sure you’re neither an expert on the history of slavery or Islam.”

    My Response: Is Professor Jonathan AC Brown an expert on Islam and Islamic History? Is he a “scholarly source”? Because this is what he wrote on rape and slavery…

    “Violation of slavewomen, on the other hand, is normally described as “property usurpation” (ghaṣb) and the victim as “usurped property” (maghṣūbah), and substantive discussions are normally found in chapters on ghaṣb. The second notable difference is the pointed attention to the volitional state of free women in acts of zinā and the frequent lack of attention to the volitional state of slavewomen in acts of ghasb. For the jurists, sexual usurpation of a slavewoman was a form of property damage that required financial compensation to her owner for depreciation. ”

    I continue: Thats right Professor Jonathan AC Brown says that raping a slave woman in Islam is just property damage, not even CRIMINAL damage to property just simply property damage.

    Source:

    https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/08/19/1810/

    Like

  32. Intellect wrote…

    “So I believe in this to save me
    1.”You alone [bad] is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
    1.”You alone [bad], Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20”

    Question are you calling the Living God [BAD]?

    Like

  33. Robert Wells

    You said;
    I continue: Thats right Professor Jonathan AC Brown says that raping a slave woman in Islam is just property damage, not even CRIMINAL damage to property just simply property damage.

    Source:

    https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/08/19/1810

    I say;
    Is property damage not criminal? Can you intentionally damage somebody’s property without being arrested? and pay the damage? US constitution is a modern day law and you do not expect an olden day law to match with your constitution please.

    There was no age limit in the olden days and both Christians, Jews and Muslims marry younger women and the baseline at that time is if the lady has reached adolescent age and a notable King of England. Before the recent modern law of 16,17,18 etc. all regions do marry girls before 16. DO NOT EXPECT ANY OLDEN LAW TO MATCH YOUR NEW US CONSTITUTION which has its new regulation that was not present at that time. If prophet Abraham was to follow US constitution he would not have his other wives and slave women to give birth to Isaac and Ishmael. By US constitution Abraham would have been arrested and jailed for raping his slave woman but the God of the Bible considered it legitimate.

    So, Mr. Robert, do not use modern US law as a yardstick to measure other religion.

    You said;
    Intellect wrote…

    “So I believe in this to save me
    1.”You alone [bad] is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
    1.”You alone [bad], Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20”

    Question are you calling the Living God [BAD]?

    I say;
    Again your ignorance and lack of research will always let you worship Man, God-Man, 3 Persons/persons 1 God, 3 Men 1 God, 100% Man, 100% God(creature who is a hybrid creature, and impossibility, nonsense, irrational and stupid creature who is not in the Bible as 100% God and 100% Man but created by man) all of which are not in the Bible but created by man.

    Bible was not written in English and at the time it was written there was no language in that world called English, so one has to go to the language in which the Bible was written and BAD in Hebrew means “Alone” and that is what is in the brackets. Most Christians will not research themselves, but will be listening to Sam Shamoun who has no basic Islamic and Christian certificate or qualifications. It is pity.

    Question of the Month – Alone?

    By: Jeff A. Benner

    Q: I was doing a study on the word “alone” found in Genesis 2:18 and found that it is the Hebrew word לבדו (le’vahdo), but am unable to find the meaning of this word.

    A: The base word is בד (bahd/vahd) meaning a “stick.” The ל (le) is a prefix meaning “to” and the ו (o) is a suffix meaning “his.” So לבדו means “to his stick.” A stick is a piece of a tree that is separated from the tree. The phrase “to his stick” is a Hebrew idiom meaning to be “alone.”

    http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/emagazine/062.html

    Thanks

    Like

  34. Intellect wrote…

    “Is property damage not criminal? Can you intentionally damage somebody’s property without being arrested? and pay the damage?

    My response: Well evidently according Professor Johnathan AC Brown, if a Muslim man puts his penis inside a non Muslim slave woman with out her consent its just property damage and no HADAD (criminal) punishment is given to him. He has to pay the depreciation of the woman, I’m sorry Property he damaged to the property owner. So in Islam if your sexually damage another Muslims slave then its not criminal property damage.

    In the civilized 21st century we call that RAPE, Muslims call that property damage. Paying the owner for damaging said property, we call that pimp-in, Muslims call that Halah from Allah.

    Intellect wrote…

    “US constitution is a modern day law and you do not expect an olden day law to match with your constitution please.””

    My response: Did you just call Allah’s just laws “olden day laws”? Are you a Biddah Muslim an innovator?

    Intellect wrote…
    “Bible was not written in English and at the time it was written there was no language in that world called English, so one has to go to the language in which the Bible was written and BAD in Hebrew means “Alone”

    My response: This is strange you use the ENGLISH word BAD as if it is a HEBREW word? Ummm there are no English letters in Hebrew so BAD is english word that has nothing to do with Hebrew. Whats even stranger is you actually provide a quote with the actual hebrew word and its TRANSLITERATION which is not BAD lol

    You are a strange innovating Muslim lol

    Like

  35. Robert Wells

    You said;
    Intellect wrote…

    “Is property damage not criminal? Can you intentionally damage somebody’s property without being arrested? and pay the damage?

    My response: Well evidently according Professor Johnathan AC Brown, if a Muslim man puts his penis inside a non Muslim slave woman with out her consent its just property damage and no HADAD (criminal) punishment is given to him. He has to pay the depreciation of the woman, I’m sorry Property he damaged to the property owner. So in Islam if your sexually damage another Muslims slave then its not criminal property damage.

    In the civilized 21st century we call that RAPE, Muslims call that property damage. Paying the owner for damaging said property, we call that pimp-in, Muslims call that Halah from Allah.

    I say;
    That is why I said the Biblical law is not identical to the civilized 21 st century, in that Prophet Abraham RAPED his slave to give birth to his child and God of the Bible allowed his holy prophet to do that, and in addition had many wives which could have led him arrested by the civilized 21st century law, so If you Mr. Robert Wells is concerned about somebody’s scripture which is not worse than your Bible, the honest thing to do is stop being a Christian, then you will have a legitimate concern about others scripture because your scripture has got a Prophet of God committing incest by sleeping with his daughters and another committing adultery etc.

    You said;
    In the civilized 21st century we call that RAPE, Muslims call that property damage. Paying the owner for damaging said property, we call that pimp-in, Muslims call that Halah from Allah.

    I say;
    That is what you call it now but the God of the Bible who is the absolute authority did not call it that and allow Prophet Abraham to have sex with his slave to give birth to a child and Jesus allowed slavery and ask the slaves to serve their masters very well.

    At least in Islam as per A. C. Brown, there is prosecution and punishment when someone raped his slave and that is by paying compensation to the slave. At that time there was no modern day civilized 21st century law that you call RAPE, it was not there. If it was the law of that time, then it would have been used but it was not there and had to be put into law as late as the 20th century. Before then people could marry girls at early age before 16 and a research shows that some Kings of England take delight in marrying young girls which will be considered under age this days.

    Did the Kings of England and the prophets of God did something wrong? No, as far as the girls are adolescent, there is nothing wrong by that because there was no any law whether from God or man to prohibit that.

    You said;
    “US constitution is a modern day law and you do not expect an olden day law to match with your constitution please.””

    My response: Did you just call Allah’s just laws “olden day laws”? Are you a Biddah Muslim an innovator?

    I say;
    If compared to the 21st century law, it becomes old because it came before men considered what they think is rape, below 16 is under age, below 17 is under age, marry one etc. and would be punished when you don’t do that. The Biblical God did not consider some of the modern day laws legitimate.

    You said;
    My response: This is strange you use the ENGLISH word BAD as if it is a HEBREW word? Ummm there are no English letters in Hebrew so BAD is english word that has nothing to do with Hebrew. Whats even stranger is you actually provide a quote with the actual hebrew word and its TRANSLITERATION which is not BAD lol

    You are a strange innovating Muslim lol

    I say;
    The transliteration of Alone in Hebrew is BAD and I kept it in bracket and I also kept echad which means one and only one in bracket to show the original language of the Bible and there is nothing wrong about that, especially to a learned intellectual except the one who does not research himself but to be listening to Sam Shamoun who has no basic education, certificate of qualification in either Islam or Christianity

    Thanks

    Like

  36. Intellect wrote…

    Prophet Abraham RAPED his slave to give birth to his child

    My response no sorry Abraham was not a Muslim.

    Like

  37. Robert Wells

    You said;
    Intellect wrote…

    Prophet Abraham RAPED his slave to give birth to his child

    My response no sorry Abraham was not a Muslim.

    I say;
    You defined rape by having sex with slave in the 21s century law which also allow for having only one wife and Abraham had sex with his slave and had several wives so according to your civilized 21st century law Abraham raped a slave and would have been arrested and put to jail. Do you read your Bible? Other prophets of God in your Bible committed incest by sleeping with their own daughters and others slept with other people’s wives and that is adultery and would have been arrested by your 21st century law and put to jail but the God of the Bible allow all this to happen by His own holy prophets.

    Abraham was not a Jew or a Christian because He is not from Judea or Nazareth and did not worship Jesus Christ, God/Man, 3 Persons/persons 1 God, 3 Beings/beings 1 God, 100% God 100% Man(an impossibility, nonsense, rubbish, or hybrid creature).

    Abraham worshiped One and Only Alone God just like Muslims and find below proof from the Bible

    1.”You alone [bad] is Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
    1.”You alone [bad], Lord, is God.” Isaiah 37:20
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
    1.”since indeed God is one [hen]” Romans 3:30
    2.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
    3.”there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
    2.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
    3.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
    4.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
    5.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
    2.”there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
    3.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
    4.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
    5.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
    1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4

    Mr. Robert, you read how important and clear salvation is defined in the above verses? God is not wicked to hide salvation from us but sincere to make salvation clear to us as in the above verses and in so many places in the Bible and continue to repeat it over and over. In fact, I still have more verses from the Bible that clearly and unequivocally states God is One, Only and Alone.

    Now, you Robert Wells said God is not alone and not 1 and not only but with Son who was begotten(have sex and gave birth to), with other Spirit and are 3 Persons/persons or 3 Beings 1 God. Show me a clear and unequivocal statement in the whole Bible including the gnostic Gospels that states “God is 3 Persons/persons in 1”

    If you are not able to provide, then you are an idol worshiper and the punishment according to the Bible is hell fire.

    Thanks.

    Like

  38. ” Abraham raped a slave and would have been arrested and put to jail. Do you read your Bible? ”

    I read my bible but I don’t see this.

    “others slept with other people’s wives and that is adultery and would have been arrested by your 21st century law and put to jail”

    So if you get a divorce first sleeping with someone else’s wife is ok? You just need a piece of paper or recite the magic formula three times?

    Like

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