Tahweed is not logical. The only way Muslim’s can make ragweed logical is by violating taheed .
Case in point.
Do the laws of logic apply to Allah and his oneness.?
If u answer yes then you have violated taheed since nothing can be like allah.
If u answer no that Allah and his oneness are above any laws. Then thawed is not logical since the laws of logic do not apply to Allah and his oneness.
.
Paul if Jesus prayed the father as he did then he can not be a Muslim. Unless ur saying that Jesus is the son of god in which case u should follow the Quran and worship him
BTW Paul Jesus praying to the father proves the doctrine of the Trinity since the second person of the Trinity spoke to the first person of the Trinity
You said;
Tahweed is not logical. The only way Muslim’s can make ragweed logical is by violating taheed .
Case in point.
Do the laws of logic apply to Allah and his oneness.?
If u answer yes then you have violated taheed since nothing can be like allah.
If u answer no that Allah and his oneness are above any laws. Then thawed is not logical since the laws of logic do not apply to Allah and his oneness.
I say;
There is nothing in the Quran and in any Islamic literature that says “The law of logic does not apply to the ONE Allah says He is both in the Quran and in the Bible”. Show me where it says the law of logic does not apply to ONE, TWO, THREE etc.
The law of logic applies to 1,2,3,4,5 etc. because 5 cannot be 4 and 1 cannot be 3. So if God says He is One, the law of logic applies to the One because One is Three. I as a human is one but no body can create the blood circulating in my body and my creation defy the law of logic but that does not mean I am not one or cannot be one human being.
ONE IS ONE BUT NOT THREE
1 IS 1 but not 3, 2, 4, 5 or any number for that matter
So the law of logic applies to any number be it 1,2,3 etc. because 1 will always be 1 but not 2 or 3. 3 or 2 will always be 2 or 3 but not any number. So, the law of logic is applicable to any number because that number cannot be another number.
If I borrow 3 thousand dollars from you and decided to pay back 1 thousand dollars and claim it is the same, will you agree I gave you the same amount of money you browed me? Of course not. So whoever says he is 1 including God Almighty God saying He is 1 means He is 1 but not 2,3,4,5 etc.
If the law of logic is not applicable to one why did God not say He is 3,2,4 4, but insisting He is One, Only and Alone?
If you violate the law of logic for the oneness of God and claim He can be 3, then you are an idol worshiper and a polytheist because they all violate the law of logic and claim God is more than the 1 that He said He is.
I, or Muslims did not say God is One but God Himself said He is One Only and Alone
1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]” Deuteronomy 6:4
And Jesus supported God by proclaiming the oneness of God
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
1.”you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
God could have easily said “I Yahweh, is 3 in 1 God” if laws of logic do not apply to Him.
If Yahwey said this
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
Then the law of logic became applicable to Him because He clearly said He is God and there is no one else. You add a Person, persons, beings, to Yahwey, then you add someone else to Him and you are an idolater and or polytheists and a hell fire will be waiting for you if you do not repent.
Sam Shamoun will confuse his fellow Christians and argue that God is above the law of logic.
I tell Sam and those Christians that, not the law of logic He(God) Himself said He is and that is the law of logic 1 is 1 but not 3.
Mr. Wells, do yourself a favour and stop insulting the Allah and respect the God of your fellow Arab Christians by capitalizing Allah, and do not think you insult Muslims alone by doing that, but you insult Arab Christians and Jews as well.
You said;
BTW Paul Jesus praying to the father proves the doctrine of the Trinity since the second person of the Trinity spoke to the first person of the Trinity
I say;
The Second Person(The Son), said the First Person(The Father) is greater than I, so they are not equal but the Son was a creation of the Father because Son/son will always be a creation because that is what it means and someone does not like it to mean that, then he better change the word Son/son to something like Directors. As far as Son/son is used for the second person of Trinity it is clear that he was created because that is what it means. So, a Son/son Speaking to the Father proves a created God talking to higher God as in idolatry with higher Gods and lower Gods in a pyramid hierarchy.
You said;
A metaphor lol. OK Paul is Allah’s ur father metaphorically?
I say;
Of course yes. Because God does not have sex with anyone to produce a son and so Allah or God is not a literal Father to anyone, unlike the Trinitarian God who if not metaphorical as Christians claim, will be left with no option than to have sex with Mary to create a hybrid God-Man.
Father and Son, means Father and Son if not metaphorical, adopted etc. then it involves sex. And God does not have sex with anyone.
You said;
Paul u proved on a previous post that Jesus was not a Muslim since he prayed to the father so no I did no such thing
I say;
If the Father Jesus prayed to is not metaphorical, then it is literal with sex involved because that is what it means. So, if it is not metaphorical, then Jesus is praying to the Father that had sex to produce him because that is what Father means.
That’s very dangerous thinking Robert, be careful. Many American Christians are making dumb statements about Trinity and logic. The so-called laws of logic are no made-up laws but basically that what makes sense and what doesn’t. If you say logic does not apply to God then something regarding God does not have to make sense and so God is not existing. That is Kufr to believe Robert.
You said;
But tahweed is simple for the simple minded
I say;
Because God of Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Jesus, Mohammed is a God of Mercy, He made Himself simple for us, so that a child will not find it difficult to understand who He(God) said He is and that is what Jesus preached. Read it below.
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
”you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
Jesus never said God is “3 persons/beings in 1God(Being)”, “God-Man”, “Trinity”, “Hypostasis”, “sharing essence”, “took human nature” etc. because they are because they are difficult, but because they are logical errors and contradictions.
It is only un-merciful God who will force this irrationalities, impossibilities and completely lies for his servants to accept before He saves them.
3 Persons/person/beings is 1 God(Being) is a lie and cannot be possible.
Bobby “BTW Paul Jesus praying to the father proves the doctrine of the Trinity since the second person of the Trinity spoke to the first person of the Trinity”
Jesus praying to the “FATHER OF ISRAEL” proves trinitarianism wrong. The “Father” of Israel = the “Father”of Jesus says of himself clearly and unequivocally “there is NO GOD besides me”.
Looks like Paul Williams tapped out. BTW Paul I am not a polytheist so I have nothing to repent of when it comes to Polytheism.
Intellect wrote…
“The law of logic applies to 1,2,3,4,5 etc. because 5 cannot be 4 and 1 cannot be 3.”
My response: Yes I agree with you, the laws of logic to apply to mathematics, 1 can not = 3 at the same time and in the same way. Thats called the Law of Non Contradiction. One is ONE it can never be anything other than one. That is the law of identity, and 1 +1 = 2 it can never equal anything other then 2, this is the law of the excluded middle.
But that was not my question, my question was do the laws of logic apply to Allah to which I think you responded with the following.
“So if God says He is One, the law of logic applies to the One because One is Three. I as a human is one but no body can create the blood circulating in my body and my creation defy the law of logic but that does not mean I am not one or cannot be one human being. ”
My Response:
So allahs ONE is like our ONE? So my ONE is like Allahs ONE? This is a violation of a Tahweed, Allahs names and attributes.
So thank you for proving my point. In order to make Tahweed sound logical you must violate the very doctrine of Tahweed.
“That’s very dangerous thinking Robert, be careful. Many American Christians are making dumb statements about Trinity and logic. The so-called laws of logic are no made-up laws but basically that what makes sense and what doesn’t. If you say logic does not apply to God then something regarding God does not have to make sense and so God is not existing. That is Kufr to believe Robert.”
My Response:
The laws of logic are not SO CALLED, they exist, and they are eternal, and I do not say that the laws of logic do not apply to God, since God is the source of logic. All of creation presupposes a triune logical being, unlike Muslims who claim that allah is above any law.
Robert, don’t call it law. Logic is not a law like that what we call laws of physics for example. We do not say things like logic is above God. The right thing to say is God, his existence, attributes etc. make sense.
And don’t you ever again begin the word Allah in lowercase.
You said;
My response: Yes I agree with you, the laws of logic to apply to mathematics, 1 can not = 3 at the same time and in the same way. Thats called the Law of Non Contradiction. One is ONE it can never be anything other than one. That is the law of identity, and 1 +1 = 2 it can never equal anything other then 2, this is the law of the excluded middle.
But that was not my question, my question was do the laws of logic apply to Allah to which I think you responded with the following.
“So if God says He is One, the law of logic applies to the One because One is Three. I as a human is one but no body can create the blood circulating in my body and my creation defy the law of logic but that does not mean I am not one or cannot be one human being. ”
My Response:
So allahs ONE is like our ONE? So my ONE is like Allahs ONE? This is a violation of a Tahweed, Allahs names and attributes.
So thank you for proving my point. In order to make Tahweed sound logical you must violate the very doctrine of Tahweed.
I say;
Tawheed is an Arabic word which means one or oneness. So many Muslims from the time of our prophet till today never knew this word Tawheed, but what all Muslims of all generation clearly know is Allah is One. Later in Islamic history scholars use the Arabic word Tawheed which means one or oneness to educate Muslims about the oneness of God.
Right now, you can have so many Muslims who have never heard the Arabic word Tawheed but they are Muslims 100% and believe God is One and that is what Tawheed means.
h
Yes God said He is One in both the Bible and the Quran, so He is One. He cannot be Three because He did not say He is 3,2,4 etc but 1 so Allah or God One is like our One of course because just like our One cannot be Three, four, five etc. Allah’s One cannot be Three, four, five etc. so God’s One is like our one that is why He keeps reminding us from scripture that He is One, Only and Alone. We do respect God’s attributes like Mercy, Love, Grace etc. and say they are greater than our Mercy, Love, Grace, One, Cherisher, but they are the same like our Mercy, Love, Grace One, Cherisher. God’s attribute are greater than the same attributes human possess like love or mercy, but they are the same.
If some one gives you a dirty slap and later came and apologize to you and offered his cheek for you to slap and you decide not to slap him and forgave him is similar and like God Mercy when someone disobeyed Him(God) and later repented to God and apologized and God instead of punishing him(the sinner), God forgave him and did not punish him.
You see, both you and God FORGAVE and showed MERCY to someone who needs your forgiveness. Don’t you see your actions and God actions are similar? but because He is God we consider His action more and greater than yours even though they are similar.
That does not mean because God Mercy is unique because of its divine connotation so Gods Mercy is Hatred. God Mercy becomes like your mercy because both your mercies cannot become hatred each.
So, even though we can say God Oneness is greater than us, because it is Godly does not mean Gods One like our One can be 3, 2,4,5. So Gods One is like our One because both One cannot become 3,4,2 etc. as that will make both One either God or human One becomes not One but 3.
We respect Gods attributes but they are like our attributes because just like our attributes, His(God) attributes cannot be something the attribute is not i.e. God Mercy cannot be hate, and so God one is like our one because both cannot be anything like 2,3,etc. other than the 1.
Try to be capitalizing the Allah, because of your fellow Arab Christians
“Thus says the YHWH, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the YHWH of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides ME. Who is like ME?” Isaiah 44:6
” So Gods One is like our One because both One cannot become 3,4,2 etc. as that will make both One either God or human One becomes not One but 3.”
My Response: So allahs one is like our one in that it can not be three. Thanks for proving my point. In order to make Tahweed logical you must violate that doctrine of Tahweed.
See that the Triune God is not like us or anything in creation as there is nothing in creation that is one being and three persons, or one what that is three who’s.
But your God is ONE like we are ONE, thats a violation or Tahweeds doctrines of allahs names and attributes.
Bobbsy “… that would be the WORD of YHWH who is speaking, the second WHO in the one WHAT.”
LOL, Bobbsy boy, you don’t get it, do you?
If Trinitarianism is true the Second Person of the Trinity lied, as HE clearly and unequivocally says there is no God BESIDES ME.
He asks “WHO is like ME?. HE rules out any other “WHO” being like HIM. According to your non-sensical beliefs the “Father” and the “HG” are exactly like Him, aren’t they?
If Unitarianism is true, God speaks the truth in Isaiah 44:6.
“If Trinitarianism is true the Second Person of the Trinity lied, as HE clearly and unequivocally says there is no God BESIDES ME”
Burhanduddin you are clearly NOT getting it. We do not say that THE WORD of GOD is a separate GOD from YHWH or a separate GOD from The Father. All though both the father and the son are distinct persons they are not separate gods as they both share equally the divine name that is YHWH.
But I ask you to answer my questions is allah ONE who or One Person? So put up or SHUT UP.
Lol, Bobby, you are really funny, really. Muuuuaaahhaaahhhaaa.
It doesn’t matter what you say, what philosophical explanations you try to pull out of the hat, what smokescreens to try to hide behind.
What matters is what God says clearly and unambiguously. Your “God” tells it to you straight – if in Isaiah 44:6 the Second Person of the Trinity says there is no God BESIDES ME, He is lying.
” So Gods One is like our One because both One cannot become 3,4,2 etc. as that will make both One either God or human One becomes not One but 3.”
My Response: So allahs one is like our one in that it can not be three. Thanks for proving my point. In order to make Tahweed logical you must violate that doctrine of Tahweed.
See that the Triune God is not like us or anything in creation as there is nothing in creation that is one being and three persons, or one what that is three who’s.
But your God is ONE like we are ONE, thats a violation or Tahweeds doctrines of allahs names and attributes.
Thanks for playing.
I say;
You forgot this from the Bible?
1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]” Deuteronomy 6:4
And Jesus supported God by proclaiming the oneness of God
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
1.”you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
God could have easily said “I Yahweh, is 3 in 1 God” if laws of logic do not apply to Him.
Robert Wells the Bible said God is One. The above did not differentiate the One from our One. It said One. So, the One is like our One, in that it cannot be 3. Show me anywhere in the Bible that said One is not like our One? If you are not able to show me, then you are an idol worshiper by adding other persons to the One God.
SHOW ME PLEASE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE ONE IN THE BIBLE IS NOT LIKE OUR ONE
SHOW ME PLEASE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE ONE IN THE BIBLE IS NOT LIKE OUR ONE
SHOW ME PLEASE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE ONE IN THE BIBLE IS NOT LIKE OUR ONE
SHOW ME PLEASE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE ONE IN THE BIBLE IS NOT LIKE OUR ONE
You said;
Burhanduddin you are clearly NOT getting it. We do not say that THE WORD of GOD is a separate GOD from YHWH or a separate GOD from The Father. All though both the father and the son are distinct persons they are not separate gods as they both share equally the divine name that is YHWH.
I say;
But Jesus(The Second Person) of the Trinity said The Father(The First Person) of the Trinity is greater than I, so the equality you claim is false. We have been correcting you on this over and over and you keep repeating them.
-They are not equal because One person is the Son/son and Son/son means what it means and it means a created being through sexual intercourse unless Son/son is metaphorical that will disqualify Jesus as the only begotten Son/son. So it clearly makes the persons not equal because One is Son and the other Father so they are not equal. Your equality claim is false and erroneous.
-One died(The Son) and the other is always Alive(The Father) so the persons of the Trinity are not equal
-Distinct means separate and separate things can be counted as individuals. What is the individual person of Trinity? God? if yes, then we have 3 Gods and it is polytheism and idol worshiping.
If Jesus alone as an individual person because of them being distinct, or separate from each other is God, and the others are Gods, then you worship 3 Gods, and if Jesus is not God and you believe then you are a Muslim. But is Jesus is God, the other persons of the Trinity are also Gods and you are a polytheist and idol worshiper.
I put to you Sir God of the Bible said this
1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]” Deuteronomy 6:4
And Jesus supported God by proclaiming the oneness of God
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
1.”you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
You ask me a question and I answered you that yes the One that God said He is in the Bible and the Quran is like our 1 in that it cannot become 3,2,4,5,6 etc. so the One that God is referring He is like our One.
You answer me where in the Bible does it say the One that is this
.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]” Deuteronomy 6:4
is not like our one? or it means 3, or is 3 in 1, or is 3 persons in 1? If you are not able to show me where God said the One He is referring to is not one but 3 then you are obviously a polytheist.
You said;
Burhanuddin1 Put up or shut up, Is allah one person or one who?
I say;
Allah is One Who as in this verse
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
Jesus is the one WHO was crucified, Holy Spirit is the one WHO will dwell with us, and the Father is who sent Jesus down because Jesus said and My Father
WHO sent me
I count 3 WHOS in the Trinity above but Yahweh is saying WHO is God and saying He alone is God and no one else. So no person can be God.
”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]”
Question is allahs oneness a oneness in every sense of the word one? Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]”
Question is allahs oneness a oneness in every sense of the word one? Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
I say;
Show me where Yahweh said His One is not One but 3, 4, 5, 6? Show me where Yahweh says He is 3 Persons in 1.
One means One and not 3, be it the One of God or the One of men. One is One but not 3. To say one is 3 means lies and deception.
”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]”
Question is allahs oneness a oneness in every sense of the word one? Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
I say;
Why are you interested in objects? when God clearly said He is One and not 3 or 3 persons in 1.
You idol (persons) worshiper
God is warning you and God said do not worship the image(object(person/persons/being)) of anything in heaven, above or on the earth beneath or in the water below except He the One God who is not 3, 2, 4 etc.
Exodus 20:4
“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
Deuteronomy 4:16
so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,
Intellect you have not answered my question, I know Paul Williams through in the towel and tapped out right away, and Burhanuddin1 gave up in a short time.
So I will ask you one more time, is Allah one in every sense of the word ONE, in other words Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
You said;
So I will ask you one more time, is Allah one in every sense of the word ONE, in other words Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
I say;
Allah said He is One and Yahweh said He is One and that is what He told us He is and that is what I know and full top(period(.)). Now I know one =one but not three, four, two etc. He did not tell me anything so I cannot add anything but believed what God told me that He is One and full stop. Period. Stop there. Unfortunately Mr. Wells you are forcing us to add something or reduce something from the One that God said He is and we cannot answer that unfortunately. What we know is that God Himself said He is One Only and Alone and that is it.
We also know that the One is obviously like our One even though we respect His One, but that does not make His One different from our one. The One is One and that is what He said He is and we understand that and we stay there without addition, deletion, modification and or changes to the One. One whether God said it or man said it, is One and cannot be 2,2,4,5. Any one who said One=Three or One = Two is a liar and it is as if the person is saying Gods Mercy is Hate and human mercy is hate. Both are not hate but Mercy and nothing else. We do respect Gods Mercy because it is from God but you cannot say because of that Gods Mercy can be Hate, No God mercy cannot be hate but mercy and also human mercy cannot be hate but mercy. So God One cannot be 3 and human one cannot be 3 or any number at the same time.
“Allah said He is One and Yahweh said He is One and that is what He told us He is and that is what I know and full top(period(.)). Now I know one =one but not three, four, two etc. . He did not tell me anything so I cannot add anything but believed what God told me that He is One and full stop.”
My response: So you don’t know about your God, and you presume to know about my God? LOL
You wrote…
We also know that the One is obviously like our One even though we respect His One, but that does not make His One different from our one.
My response: Can you spell SHIRK, its spelled S H I R K. Your shirken it shirken it hard man. See I said you would have to violate Tawheed in order to make Tahweed sound logical.
But lets continue on with the Oneness of the one true living God. You where right to say he is Echad as that is what the bible teaches. Here is what Chabad has to say about Echad and the Two Shades of the One…
“But is echad the ideal word to express the divine unity? Like its English equivalent, the word does not preclude the existence of other objects (as in the sequence “one, two, three . . .”), nor does it preclude its object being composed of parts (we speak of “one nation,” “one forest,” “one person” and “one tree,” despite the fact that each of these consists of many units or components). It would seem that the term yachid, which means “singular” and “only one,” more clearly expresses the “perfect simplicity” of G‑d (which Maimonides states to be the most fundamental principle of the Jewish faith) and the axiom that “there is none else besides Him”
My response continued. Notice that the word Echad does NOT, preclude its object being composed of parts so it is not a singular ONE like your allah.
The Chabad continues…
“Chassidic teaching explains that, on the contrary, echad represents a deeper unity than yachid. Yachid is a oneness that cannot tolerate plurality—if another being or element is introduced into the equation, the yachid is no longer yachid. Echad, on the other hand, represents the fusion of diverse elements into a harmonious whole. The oneness of echad is not undermined by plurality; indeed, it employs plurality as the ingredients of unity.”
My response continues….
So according the Chassidic teaching (thats them there JEWS to you”. Echad is a fusion of diverse elements, and it is not undermined by plurality it EMPLOYS plurality as the ingredients of unity.”
“Allah said He is One and Yahweh said He is One and that is what He told us He is and that is what I know and full top(period(.)). Now I know one =one but not three, four, two etc. . He did not tell me anything so I cannot add anything but believed what God told me that He is One and full stop.”
My response: So you don’t know about your God, and you presume to know about my God? LOL
I say;
This is what your God said He is;
”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]”
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
Here is what my God said He is;
1.Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2.Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3.He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4.And there is none like unto Him.
I know it is one God who speaks in both scriptures. I have accepted what He said He is One, Only and Alone. You did not accept the clear verses above but brought your own interpretations which says God is 3 Who’s but your God clearly stated above that He is One WHO and He is ONE. I do not follow Chabad but follow the verses above from my scripture and your scripture that clearly states God is One and One Who not 3 Who’s(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)
You said;
My response: Can you spell SHIRK, its spelled S H I R K. Your shirken it shirken it hard man. See I said you would have to violate Tawheed in order to make Tahweed sound logical.
But lets continue on with the Oneness of the one true living God. You where right to say he is Echad as that is what the bible teaches. Here is what Chabad has to say about Echad and the Two Shades of the One…
I say;
Some Muslims from the time of our prophet till today never heard the word Arabic word Tawheed, but are 100% Muslims because the believe God is One and the rest of Islamic laws. Tawheed happened to be Arabic word that means one or oneness and is not in the Quran but Islamic scholars later uses it to teach the oneness of God. So, we believe God is One and Tawheed happened to be Arabic word which means oneness or one but Tawheed is not necessarily in the Quran but God is One which means Tawheed.
So you cannot hold me against the Arabic word Tawheed. It means God is One anyway, so if I believe God is One and I did not hear about the word Tawheed, no one can hold me responsible.
//RW:
Notice that the word Echad does NOT, preclude its object being composed of parts so it is not a singular ONE like your allah.//
This argument is utter nonsense. אֶחָד ĕcḥad (masculine) and אַחַת acḥat (feminine) is exactly numerical term meaning “1″ in Hebrew. — just as ONE does in English but the underlying meaning of “1” is an “absolute one” never a “one unit” at all. Yes it does not preclude one as parts but you need more information to use it as *the* correct understanding, ….you can NOT just jump to an understanding without complementary information / context to make us understand that One mean “1” unit/part, thats how language works.
If I tell you I have ONE cat. This must be understood as I have ONE cat not ONE PACK of cats
If you argue that having ONE cat must be understood other than having other than ONE /SINGULAR cat is fallacious and illogical.
Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is ONE“ (אֶחָד – Hebrew: echad),
The immediate meaning *must* me that God is ONE as in Jewish/Islamic Monotheism.
To suggest otherwise one need support from the context of the Torah, and the context is overwhelmingly an one as SINGLE and not one as “unit”.
Now if trinitarian insist their non-sensical re-definition of the word אֶחָד echad as “one unit” how can they explain into verses like :
Genesis 21:15
(וַתַּשְׁלֵךְ אֶת־הַיֶּֽלֶד תַּֽחַת אַחַד הַשִּׂיחִם “she cast the child under one (echad) of the bushes”)
did Hagar put her dying child Ishmael under many different bushes all at the same time??
and Genesis 22:2;
(וְהַעֲלֵֽהוּ… עַל אַחַד הֶהָרִים אֲשֶׁר אֹמַר אֵלֶֽיךָ “bring him up there for a burnt offering on one (echad) of the mountains, of which I will tell you”)
and did God tell Abraham to take his son up onto multiple different mountains ??
Chassidic never say the plurality itself IS God. Their teaching means that God is inclusive of a plurality which itself is NOT God –
“a diverse, plural world that chooses … to unite with Him”, as the article you quoted states.
This is radically different from the One Pack of Three God i.e.. Trinity itself IS God.
Read the rest of the article from Chabad.org:
“..It was to express His echad-ness that He created the world, created man, granted him freedom of choice, and commanded him the Torah. He created existences that, at least in their own perception, are distinct of Him, and gave them the tools to bring their lives into utter harmony with His will. When a diverse and plural world chooses, by its own initiative, to unite with Him, the divine oneness assumes a new, deeper expression: G‑d is echad….”
Of Course God is inclusive of plurality , God creates Everything including plurality but God Itself IS NOT plural. You just copy paste missionary michael brown who deliberately abused and amputated certain Chasidic text.
If God would have said “יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה שלוש Yhwh Eloheinu, Yhwh Shloshah, the Lord is our God, the Lord is THREE” I rest my case for trinity.
Blogging Theology 
Tahweed is not logical. The only way Muslim’s can make ragweed logical is by violating taheed .
Case in point.
Do the laws of logic apply to Allah and his oneness.?
If u answer yes then you have violated taheed since nothing can be like allah.
If u answer no that Allah and his oneness are above any laws. Then thawed is not logical since the laws of logic do not apply to Allah and his oneness.
.
LikeLike
lol very silly. You criticise the faith of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Nice own goal Bobbly.
LikeLiked by 1 person
But tahweed is simple for the simple minded
LikeLiked by 1 person
Paul u proved on a previous post that Jesus was not a Muslim since he prayed to the father so no I did no such thing
LikeLike
If Jesus prayed to God and worshiped GOD (which he did) he could not have been God. So simple Bobbly – even you should get it.
LikeLike
Paul if Jesus prayed the father as he did then he can not be a Muslim. Unless ur saying that Jesus is the son of god in which case u should follow the Quran and worship him
LikeLike
Father is just a metaphor for the attributes of God. So no problem.
Bobby you just dissed Moses and Jesus. What religion are you – a satanist?
LikeLike
BTW Paul Jesus praying to the father proves the doctrine of the Trinity since the second person of the Trinity spoke to the first person of the Trinity
LikeLike
there is only one God Bobbly, not two like you claim. Repent of your polytheism!
Come back to the teaching of Moses Jesus & Muhammad.
You know it makes sense.
LikeLiked by 1 person
A metaphor lol. OK Paul is Allah’s ur father metaphorically?
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
Tahweed is not logical. The only way Muslim’s can make ragweed logical is by violating taheed .
Case in point.
Do the laws of logic apply to Allah and his oneness.?
If u answer yes then you have violated taheed since nothing can be like allah.
If u answer no that Allah and his oneness are above any laws. Then thawed is not logical since the laws of logic do not apply to Allah and his oneness.
I say;
There is nothing in the Quran and in any Islamic literature that says “The law of logic does not apply to the ONE Allah says He is both in the Quran and in the Bible”. Show me where it says the law of logic does not apply to ONE, TWO, THREE etc.
The law of logic applies to 1,2,3,4,5 etc. because 5 cannot be 4 and 1 cannot be 3. So if God says He is One, the law of logic applies to the One because One is Three. I as a human is one but no body can create the blood circulating in my body and my creation defy the law of logic but that does not mean I am not one or cannot be one human being.
ONE IS ONE BUT NOT THREE
1 IS 1 but not 3, 2, 4, 5 or any number for that matter
So the law of logic applies to any number be it 1,2,3 etc. because 1 will always be 1 but not 2 or 3. 3 or 2 will always be 2 or 3 but not any number. So, the law of logic is applicable to any number because that number cannot be another number.
If I borrow 3 thousand dollars from you and decided to pay back 1 thousand dollars and claim it is the same, will you agree I gave you the same amount of money you browed me? Of course not. So whoever says he is 1 including God Almighty God saying He is 1 means He is 1 but not 2,3,4,5 etc.
If the law of logic is not applicable to one why did God not say He is 3,2,4 4, but insisting He is One, Only and Alone?
If you violate the law of logic for the oneness of God and claim He can be 3, then you are an idol worshiper and a polytheist because they all violate the law of logic and claim God is more than the 1 that He said He is.
I, or Muslims did not say God is One but God Himself said He is One Only and Alone
1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]” Deuteronomy 6:4
And Jesus supported God by proclaiming the oneness of God
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
1.”you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
God could have easily said “I Yahweh, is 3 in 1 God” if laws of logic do not apply to Him.
If Yahwey said this
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
Then the law of logic became applicable to Him because He clearly said He is God and there is no one else. You add a Person, persons, beings, to Yahwey, then you add someone else to Him and you are an idolater and or polytheists and a hell fire will be waiting for you if you do not repent.
Sam Shamoun will confuse his fellow Christians and argue that God is above the law of logic.
I tell Sam and those Christians that, not the law of logic He(God) Himself said He is and that is the law of logic 1 is 1 but not 3.
Mr. Wells, do yourself a favour and stop insulting the Allah and respect the God of your fellow Arab Christians by capitalizing Allah, and do not think you insult Muslims alone by doing that, but you insult Arab Christians and Jews as well.
Thanks
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
BTW Paul Jesus praying to the father proves the doctrine of the Trinity since the second person of the Trinity spoke to the first person of the Trinity
I say;
The Second Person(The Son), said the First Person(The Father) is greater than I, so they are not equal but the Son was a creation of the Father because Son/son will always be a creation because that is what it means and someone does not like it to mean that, then he better change the word Son/son to something like Directors. As far as Son/son is used for the second person of Trinity it is clear that he was created because that is what it means. So, a Son/son Speaking to the Father proves a created God talking to higher God as in idolatry with higher Gods and lower Gods in a pyramid hierarchy.
Thanks.
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
A metaphor lol. OK Paul is Allah’s ur father metaphorically?
I say;
Of course yes. Because God does not have sex with anyone to produce a son and so Allah or God is not a literal Father to anyone, unlike the Trinitarian God who if not metaphorical as Christians claim, will be left with no option than to have sex with Mary to create a hybrid God-Man.
Father and Son, means Father and Son if not metaphorical, adopted etc. then it involves sex. And God does not have sex with anyone.
You said;
Paul u proved on a previous post that Jesus was not a Muslim since he prayed to the father so no I did no such thing
I say;
If the Father Jesus prayed to is not metaphorical, then it is literal with sex involved because that is what it means. So, if it is not metaphorical, then Jesus is praying to the Father that had sex to produce him because that is what Father means.
Thanks
LikeLike
That’s very dangerous thinking Robert, be careful. Many American Christians are making dumb statements about Trinity and logic. The so-called laws of logic are no made-up laws but basically that what makes sense and what doesn’t. If you say logic does not apply to God then something regarding God does not have to make sense and so God is not existing. That is Kufr to believe Robert.
LikeLike
Laws is simply just a word we place and make up, the universe doesn’t have ‘laws’ but that’s how it acts.
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
But tahweed is simple for the simple minded
I say;
Because God of Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Jesus, Mohammed is a God of Mercy, He made Himself simple for us, so that a child will not find it difficult to understand who He(God) said He is and that is what Jesus preached. Read it below.
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
”you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
Jesus never said God is “3 persons/beings in 1God(Being)”, “God-Man”, “Trinity”, “Hypostasis”, “sharing essence”, “took human nature” etc. because they are because they are difficult, but because they are logical errors and contradictions.
It is only un-merciful God who will force this irrationalities, impossibilities and completely lies for his servants to accept before He saves them.
3 Persons/person/beings is 1 God(Being) is a lie and cannot be possible.
Thanks.
LikeLike
Bobby “BTW Paul Jesus praying to the father proves the doctrine of the Trinity since the second person of the Trinity spoke to the first person of the Trinity”
Jesus praying to the “FATHER OF ISRAEL” proves trinitarianism wrong. The “Father” of Israel = the “Father”of Jesus says of himself clearly and unequivocally “there is NO GOD besides me”.
LikeLike
Looks like Paul Williams tapped out. BTW Paul I am not a polytheist so I have nothing to repent of when it comes to Polytheism.
Intellect wrote…
“The law of logic applies to 1,2,3,4,5 etc. because 5 cannot be 4 and 1 cannot be 3.”
My response: Yes I agree with you, the laws of logic to apply to mathematics, 1 can not = 3 at the same time and in the same way. Thats called the Law of Non Contradiction. One is ONE it can never be anything other than one. That is the law of identity, and 1 +1 = 2 it can never equal anything other then 2, this is the law of the excluded middle.
But that was not my question, my question was do the laws of logic apply to Allah to which I think you responded with the following.
“So if God says He is One, the law of logic applies to the One because One is Three. I as a human is one but no body can create the blood circulating in my body and my creation defy the law of logic but that does not mean I am not one or cannot be one human being. ”
My Response:
So allahs ONE is like our ONE? So my ONE is like Allahs ONE? This is a violation of a Tahweed, Allahs names and attributes.
So thank you for proving my point. In order to make Tahweed sound logical you must violate the very doctrine of Tahweed.
LikeLike
Sunny Wrote…
“That’s very dangerous thinking Robert, be careful. Many American Christians are making dumb statements about Trinity and logic. The so-called laws of logic are no made-up laws but basically that what makes sense and what doesn’t. If you say logic does not apply to God then something regarding God does not have to make sense and so God is not existing. That is Kufr to believe Robert.”
My Response:
The laws of logic are not SO CALLED, they exist, and they are eternal, and I do not say that the laws of logic do not apply to God, since God is the source of logic. All of creation presupposes a triune logical being, unlike Muslims who claim that allah is above any law.
LikeLike
“BTW Paul I am not a polytheist so I have nothing to repent of when it comes to Polytheism.”
Ok Bobby boy, how many “Who’s” is your “one god” then? Put up or shut up
LikeLiked by 1 person
Three Persons three who’s.
LikeLike
Robert, don’t call it law. Logic is not a law like that what we call laws of physics for example. We do not say things like logic is above God. The right thing to say is God, his existence, attributes etc. make sense.
And don’t you ever again begin the word Allah in lowercase.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Sunny they are LAWS and allah is in lowercase since allah is not God which is in uppercase.
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
My response: Yes I agree with you, the laws of logic to apply to mathematics, 1 can not = 3 at the same time and in the same way. Thats called the Law of Non Contradiction. One is ONE it can never be anything other than one. That is the law of identity, and 1 +1 = 2 it can never equal anything other then 2, this is the law of the excluded middle.
But that was not my question, my question was do the laws of logic apply to Allah to which I think you responded with the following.
“So if God says He is One, the law of logic applies to the One because One is Three. I as a human is one but no body can create the blood circulating in my body and my creation defy the law of logic but that does not mean I am not one or cannot be one human being. ”
My Response:
So allahs ONE is like our ONE? So my ONE is like Allahs ONE? This is a violation of a Tahweed, Allahs names and attributes.
So thank you for proving my point. In order to make Tahweed sound logical you must violate the very doctrine of Tahweed.
I say;
Tawheed is an Arabic word which means one or oneness. So many Muslims from the time of our prophet till today never knew this word Tawheed, but what all Muslims of all generation clearly know is Allah is One. Later in Islamic history scholars use the Arabic word Tawheed which means one or oneness to educate Muslims about the oneness of God.
Right now, you can have so many Muslims who have never heard the Arabic word Tawheed but they are Muslims 100% and believe God is One and that is what Tawheed means.
h
Yes God said He is One in both the Bible and the Quran, so He is One. He cannot be Three because He did not say He is 3,2,4 etc but 1 so Allah or God One is like our One of course because just like our One cannot be Three, four, five etc. Allah’s One cannot be Three, four, five etc. so God’s One is like our one that is why He keeps reminding us from scripture that He is One, Only and Alone. We do respect God’s attributes like Mercy, Love, Grace etc. and say they are greater than our Mercy, Love, Grace, One, Cherisher, but they are the same like our Mercy, Love, Grace One, Cherisher. God’s attribute are greater than the same attributes human possess like love or mercy, but they are the same.
If some one gives you a dirty slap and later came and apologize to you and offered his cheek for you to slap and you decide not to slap him and forgave him is similar and like God Mercy when someone disobeyed Him(God) and later repented to God and apologized and God instead of punishing him(the sinner), God forgave him and did not punish him.
You see, both you and God FORGAVE and showed MERCY to someone who needs your forgiveness. Don’t you see your actions and God actions are similar? but because He is God we consider His action more and greater than yours even though they are similar.
That does not mean because God Mercy is unique because of its divine connotation so Gods Mercy is Hatred. God Mercy becomes like your mercy because both your mercies cannot become hatred each.
So, even though we can say God Oneness is greater than us, because it is Godly does not mean Gods One like our One can be 3, 2,4,5. So Gods One is like our One because both One cannot become 3,4,2 etc. as that will make both One either God or human One becomes not One but 3.
We respect Gods attributes but they are like our attributes because just like our attributes, His(God) attributes cannot be something the attribute is not i.e. God Mercy cannot be hate, and so God one is like our one because both cannot be anything like 2,3,etc. other than the 1.
Try to be capitalizing the Allah, because of your fellow Arab Christians
Thanks
LikeLike
Bobby “Three Persons three who’s.”
And WHO is speaking here, Bobby?
“Thus says the YHWH, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the YHWH of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides ME. Who is like ME?” Isaiah 44:6
WHO is YHWH?
LikeLike
Burhanduddin that would be the WORD of YHWH who is speaking, the second WHO in the one WHAT.
So tell me if believing in three persons is polytheism how many persons or who’s is allah. Put up or shut up.
LikeLike
Intellect wrote…
” So Gods One is like our One because both One cannot become 3,4,2 etc. as that will make both One either God or human One becomes not One but 3.”
My Response: So allahs one is like our one in that it can not be three. Thanks for proving my point. In order to make Tahweed logical you must violate that doctrine of Tahweed.
See that the Triune God is not like us or anything in creation as there is nothing in creation that is one being and three persons, or one what that is three who’s.
But your God is ONE like we are ONE, thats a violation or Tahweeds doctrines of allahs names and attributes.
Thanks for playing.
LikeLike
Bobbsy “… that would be the WORD of YHWH who is speaking, the second WHO in the one WHAT.”
LOL, Bobbsy boy, you don’t get it, do you?
If Trinitarianism is true the Second Person of the Trinity lied, as HE clearly and unequivocally says there is no God BESIDES ME.
He asks “WHO is like ME?. HE rules out any other “WHO” being like HIM. According to your non-sensical beliefs the “Father” and the “HG” are exactly like Him, aren’t they?
If Unitarianism is true, God speaks the truth in Isaiah 44:6.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Burhanuddin1 wrote…
“If Trinitarianism is true the Second Person of the Trinity lied, as HE clearly and unequivocally says there is no God BESIDES ME”
Burhanduddin you are clearly NOT getting it. We do not say that THE WORD of GOD is a separate GOD from YHWH or a separate GOD from The Father. All though both the father and the son are distinct persons they are not separate gods as they both share equally the divine name that is YHWH.
But I ask you to answer my questions is allah ONE who or One Person? So put up or SHUT UP.
LikeLike
Lol, Bobby, you are really funny, really. Muuuuaaahhaaahhhaaa.
It doesn’t matter what you say, what philosophical explanations you try to pull out of the hat, what smokescreens to try to hide behind.
What matters is what God says clearly and unambiguously. Your “God” tells it to you straight – if in Isaiah 44:6 the Second Person of the Trinity says there is no God BESIDES ME, He is lying.
Time to wake up, Mr. Supremacist
LikeLiked by 1 person
Robert Wells
You said;
Intellect wrote…
” So Gods One is like our One because both One cannot become 3,4,2 etc. as that will make both One either God or human One becomes not One but 3.”
My Response: So allahs one is like our one in that it can not be three. Thanks for proving my point. In order to make Tahweed logical you must violate that doctrine of Tahweed.
See that the Triune God is not like us or anything in creation as there is nothing in creation that is one being and three persons, or one what that is three who’s.
But your God is ONE like we are ONE, thats a violation or Tahweeds doctrines of allahs names and attributes.
Thanks for playing.
I say;
You forgot this from the Bible?
1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]” Deuteronomy 6:4
And Jesus supported God by proclaiming the oneness of God
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
1.”you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
God could have easily said “I Yahweh, is 3 in 1 God” if laws of logic do not apply to Him.
Robert Wells the Bible said God is One. The above did not differentiate the One from our One. It said One. So, the One is like our One, in that it cannot be 3. Show me anywhere in the Bible that said One is not like our One? If you are not able to show me, then you are an idol worshiper by adding other persons to the One God.
SHOW ME PLEASE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE ONE IN THE BIBLE IS NOT LIKE OUR ONE
SHOW ME PLEASE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE ONE IN THE BIBLE IS NOT LIKE OUR ONE
SHOW ME PLEASE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE ONE IN THE BIBLE IS NOT LIKE OUR ONE
SHOW ME PLEASE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THE ONE IN THE BIBLE IS NOT LIKE OUR ONE
Thanks
LikeLike
Burhanuddin1 Put up or shut up, Is allah one person or one who?
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
Burhanduddin you are clearly NOT getting it. We do not say that THE WORD of GOD is a separate GOD from YHWH or a separate GOD from The Father. All though both the father and the son are distinct persons they are not separate gods as they both share equally the divine name that is YHWH.
I say;
But Jesus(The Second Person) of the Trinity said The Father(The First Person) of the Trinity is greater than I, so the equality you claim is false. We have been correcting you on this over and over and you keep repeating them.
-They are not equal because One person is the Son/son and Son/son means what it means and it means a created being through sexual intercourse unless Son/son is metaphorical that will disqualify Jesus as the only begotten Son/son. So it clearly makes the persons not equal because One is Son and the other Father so they are not equal. Your equality claim is false and erroneous.
-One died(The Son) and the other is always Alive(The Father) so the persons of the Trinity are not equal
-Distinct means separate and separate things can be counted as individuals. What is the individual person of Trinity? God? if yes, then we have 3 Gods and it is polytheism and idol worshiping.
If Jesus alone as an individual person because of them being distinct, or separate from each other is God, and the others are Gods, then you worship 3 Gods, and if Jesus is not God and you believe then you are a Muslim. But is Jesus is God, the other persons of the Trinity are also Gods and you are a polytheist and idol worshiper.
I put to you Sir God of the Bible said this
1.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]” Deuteronomy 6:4
And Jesus supported God by proclaiming the oneness of God
“The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; ” Mark 12:29
1.”you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
You ask me a question and I answered you that yes the One that God said He is in the Bible and the Quran is like our 1 in that it cannot become 3,2,4,5,6 etc. so the One that God is referring He is like our One.
You answer me where in the Bible does it say the One that is this
.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]” Deuteronomy 6:4
is not like our one? or it means 3, or is 3 in 1, or is 3 persons in 1? If you are not able to show me where God said the One He is referring to is not one but 3 then you are obviously a polytheist.
Thanks.
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
Burhanuddin1 Put up or shut up, Is allah one person or one who?
I say;
Allah is One Who as in this verse
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
Jesus is the one WHO was crucified, Holy Spirit is the one WHO will dwell with us, and the Father is who sent Jesus down because Jesus said and My Father
WHO sent me
I count 3 WHOS in the Trinity above but Yahweh is saying WHO is God and saying He alone is God and no one else. So no person can be God.
Thanks
LikeLike
Intellect you quoted Deut 6:4
”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]”
Question is allahs oneness a oneness in every sense of the word one? Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
Intellect you quoted Deut 6:4
”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]”
Question is allahs oneness a oneness in every sense of the word one? Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
I say;
Show me where Yahweh said His One is not One but 3, 4, 5, 6? Show me where Yahweh says He is 3 Persons in 1.
One means One and not 3, be it the One of God or the One of men. One is One but not 3. To say one is 3 means lies and deception.
Thanks
LikeLike
In Deuteronomy 6:4 a singular is made before another singular, to me this shows unity.
For instance if I say, my sword, my sword is one, there is no need for me to repeat the one unless I am signifying it strongly, ONE!
LikeLike
Bismillah, Alhamdulillah.
In Deuteronomy 6:4 a singular is made before another singular, to me this shows unity.
For instance if I say, my sword, my sword is one, there is no need for me to repeat the one unless I am signifying it strongly, ONE!
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
Intellect you quoted Deut 6:4
”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]”
Question is allahs oneness a oneness in every sense of the word one? Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
I say;
Why are you interested in objects? when God clearly said He is One and not 3 or 3 persons in 1.
You idol (persons) worshiper
God is warning you and God said do not worship the image(object(person/persons/being)) of anything in heaven, above or on the earth beneath or in the water below except He the One God who is not 3, 2, 4 etc.
Exodus 20:4
“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
Deuteronomy 4:16
so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,
Thanks
LikeLike
Intellect you have not answered my question, I know Paul Williams through in the towel and tapped out right away, and Burhanuddin1 gave up in a short time.
So I will ask you one more time, is Allah one in every sense of the word ONE, in other words Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
So I will ask you one more time, is Allah one in every sense of the word ONE, in other words Does his oneness preclude the existence of other objects as in the sequence one, two three….?
I say;
Allah said He is One and Yahweh said He is One and that is what He told us He is and that is what I know and full top(period(.)). Now I know one =one but not three, four, two etc. He did not tell me anything so I cannot add anything but believed what God told me that He is One and full stop. Period. Stop there. Unfortunately Mr. Wells you are forcing us to add something or reduce something from the One that God said He is and we cannot answer that unfortunately. What we know is that God Himself said He is One Only and Alone and that is it.
We also know that the One is obviously like our One even though we respect His One, but that does not make His One different from our one. The One is One and that is what He said He is and we understand that and we stay there without addition, deletion, modification and or changes to the One. One whether God said it or man said it, is One and cannot be 2,2,4,5. Any one who said One=Three or One = Two is a liar and it is as if the person is saying Gods Mercy is Hate and human mercy is hate. Both are not hate but Mercy and nothing else. We do respect Gods Mercy because it is from God but you cannot say because of that Gods Mercy can be Hate, No God mercy cannot be hate but mercy and also human mercy cannot be hate but mercy. So God One cannot be 3 and human one cannot be 3 or any number at the same time.
Thanks,
LikeLike
Intellect
You wrote…
“Allah said He is One and Yahweh said He is One and that is what He told us He is and that is what I know and full top(period(.)). Now I know one =one but not three, four, two etc. . He did not tell me anything so I cannot add anything but believed what God told me that He is One and full stop.”
My response: So you don’t know about your God, and you presume to know about my God? LOL
You wrote…
We also know that the One is obviously like our One even though we respect His One, but that does not make His One different from our one.
My response: Can you spell SHIRK, its spelled S H I R K. Your shirken it shirken it hard man. See I said you would have to violate Tawheed in order to make Tahweed sound logical.
But lets continue on with the Oneness of the one true living God. You where right to say he is Echad as that is what the bible teaches. Here is what Chabad has to say about Echad and the Two Shades of the One…
“But is echad the ideal word to express the divine unity? Like its English equivalent, the word does not preclude the existence of other objects (as in the sequence “one, two, three . . .”), nor does it preclude its object being composed of parts (we speak of “one nation,” “one forest,” “one person” and “one tree,” despite the fact that each of these consists of many units or components). It would seem that the term yachid, which means “singular” and “only one,” more clearly expresses the “perfect simplicity” of G‑d (which Maimonides states to be the most fundamental principle of the Jewish faith) and the axiom that “there is none else besides Him”
My response continued. Notice that the word Echad does NOT, preclude its object being composed of parts so it is not a singular ONE like your allah.
The Chabad continues…
“Chassidic teaching explains that, on the contrary, echad represents a deeper unity than yachid. Yachid is a oneness that cannot tolerate plurality—if another being or element is introduced into the equation, the yachid is no longer yachid. Echad, on the other hand, represents the fusion of diverse elements into a harmonious whole. The oneness of echad is not undermined by plurality; indeed, it employs plurality as the ingredients of unity.”
My response continues….
So according the Chassidic teaching (thats them there JEWS to you”. Echad is a fusion of diverse elements, and it is not undermined by plurality it EMPLOYS plurality as the ingredients of unity.”
LikeLike
Robert Wells
You said;
Intellect
You wrote…
“Allah said He is One and Yahweh said He is One and that is what He told us He is and that is what I know and full top(period(.)). Now I know one =one but not three, four, two etc. . He did not tell me anything so I cannot add anything but believed what God told me that He is One and full stop.”
My response: So you don’t know about your God, and you presume to know about my God? LOL
I say;
This is what your God said He is;
”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]”
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
Here is what my God said He is;
1.Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2.Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3.He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4.And there is none like unto Him.
I know it is one God who speaks in both scriptures. I have accepted what He said He is One, Only and Alone. You did not accept the clear verses above but brought your own interpretations which says God is 3 Who’s but your God clearly stated above that He is One WHO and He is ONE. I do not follow Chabad but follow the verses above from my scripture and your scripture that clearly states God is One and One Who not 3 Who’s(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)
You said;
My response: Can you spell SHIRK, its spelled S H I R K. Your shirken it shirken it hard man. See I said you would have to violate Tawheed in order to make Tahweed sound logical.
But lets continue on with the Oneness of the one true living God. You where right to say he is Echad as that is what the bible teaches. Here is what Chabad has to say about Echad and the Two Shades of the One…
I say;
Some Muslims from the time of our prophet till today never heard the word Arabic word Tawheed, but are 100% Muslims because the believe God is One and the rest of Islamic laws. Tawheed happened to be Arabic word that means one or oneness and is not in the Quran but Islamic scholars later uses it to teach the oneness of God. So, we believe God is One and Tawheed happened to be Arabic word which means oneness or one but Tawheed is not necessarily in the Quran but God is One which means Tawheed.
So you cannot hold me against the Arabic word Tawheed. It means God is One anyway, so if I believe God is One and I did not hear about the word Tawheed, no one can hold me responsible.
Thanks.
LikeLike
With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
//RW:
Notice that the word Echad does NOT, preclude its object being composed of parts so it is not a singular ONE like your allah.//
This argument is utter nonsense. אֶחָד ĕcḥad (masculine) and אַחַת acḥat (feminine) is exactly numerical term meaning “1″ in Hebrew. — just as ONE does in English but the underlying meaning of “1” is an “absolute one” never a “one unit” at all. Yes it does not preclude one as parts but you need more information to use it as *the* correct understanding, ….you can NOT just jump to an understanding without complementary information / context to make us understand that One mean “1” unit/part, thats how language works.
If I tell you I have ONE cat. This must be understood as I have ONE cat not ONE PACK of cats
If you argue that having ONE cat must be understood other than having other than ONE /SINGULAR cat is fallacious and illogical.
Similarly if people read
שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד
– Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is ONE“ (אֶחָד – Hebrew: echad),
The immediate meaning *must* me that God is ONE as in Jewish/Islamic Monotheism.
To suggest otherwise one need support from the context of the Torah, and the context is overwhelmingly an one as SINGLE and not one as “unit”.
Now if trinitarian insist their non-sensical re-definition of the word אֶחָד echad as “one unit” how can they explain into verses like :
Genesis 21:15
(וַתַּשְׁלֵךְ אֶת־הַיֶּֽלֶד תַּֽחַת אַחַד הַשִּׂיחִם “she cast the child under one (echad) of the bushes”)
did Hagar put her dying child Ishmael under many different bushes all at the same time??
and Genesis 22:2;
(וְהַעֲלֵֽהוּ… עַל אַחַד הֶהָרִים אֲשֶׁר אֹמַר אֵלֶֽיךָ “bring him up there for a burnt offering on one (echad) of the mountains, of which I will tell you”)
and did God tell Abraham to take his son up onto multiple different mountains ??
Think.
Wassalam
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Echad” being “compound unity” etc. – just clutching at straws
LikeLiked by 1 person
Burhanuddin1 it seems you can neither put up or SHUT UP. But maybe you should tell that the Chabadnicks.
LikeLike
With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Chassidic never say the plurality itself IS God. Their teaching means that God is inclusive of a plurality which itself is NOT God –
“a diverse, plural world that chooses … to unite with Him”, as the article you quoted states.
This is radically different from the One Pack of Three God i.e.. Trinity itself IS God.
Read the rest of the article from Chabad.org:
“..It was to express His echad-ness that He created the world, created man, granted him freedom of choice, and commanded him the Torah. He created existences that, at least in their own perception, are distinct of Him, and gave them the tools to bring their lives into utter harmony with His will. When a diverse and plural world chooses, by its own initiative, to unite with Him, the divine oneness assumes a new, deeper expression: G‑d is echad….”
Of Course God is inclusive of plurality , God creates Everything including plurality but God Itself IS NOT plural. You just copy paste missionary michael brown who deliberately abused and amputated certain Chasidic text.
If God would have said “יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה שלוש Yhwh Eloheinu, Yhwh Shloshah, the Lord is our God, the Lord is THREE” I rest my case for trinity.
Wassalam
LikeLiked by 1 person
Bobby, there are some interesting UFO cults out there, maybe a goldmine for supporting your claims
LikeLike