God has made His light shine for those who seek for HIM

Everything that I loved about Christianity I got to bring into Islam. I didn’t see Islam as an abandonment of my Christian upbringing. I saw it as a fulfillment of it…

Hamza Yusuf Hanson*)

Screen Shot 2017-11-28 at 21.50.20*) American Islamic scholar, and is co-founder of Zaytuna College.

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Categories: Christianity, Islam, Judaism

Tags: , , ,

113 replies

  1. Imagine were it not for all the lies, fear, and propaganda, how many Christians would finally realize that their religion has been corrupted, and that monotheism is the truth, and would embrace Islam?

    Liked by 1 person

    • When you become a sunni muslim you will discover that true monotheism is believing in the Quran alone and that hadiths(good and bad) are just satanic inspired lies writen by men.

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    • Yawn. Qur’ān mandates adherence to the Sunnah of him upon whom it was revealed ﷺ. Neglect of one is neglect of both (at user’s own risk).

      But I guess to some, throwing out the baby with the bathwater passes for a reasonable principle in implementing the Qur’ān. And why single out Sunnīs? Shī`ahs and Ibādīs look to hadīths to derive the Sunnah as well.

      Liked by 1 person

    • @ziedzouaoui

      So hadiths like “[In prayer] the Imam must be followed. So recited takbir when he recites it, and bow down when he bows…” which has been recorded at least 124 times, by 26 third-generation authorities at ten locations simultaneously (Madinah, Makkah, Egypt, Basra, Hims, Yemen, Kufa, Syria, Wasit, and Ta’if) who unanimously trace its origin to at least 10 Companions of the Prophet is just a “satanic inspired lie”?

      Liked by 2 people

    • Following books made by men (200 years after the prophet) is associating with God. The Quran doesn’t allow any hadith to be followed with it. Peace.

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    • 200 years? That’s all you got? Sorry, you don’t know anything.

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    • Wisdom is more important.

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    • Except it can’t be wisdom if there’s no knowledge behind it and you’re obviously just parroting something you read on some Quranist site.

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    • If everyone thinks that the religion of his parents is the truth then there is no falsehood everyone is on the right path.

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    • Yeah. I’m a convert, chief.

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    • Ok then my advice will be that you should not follow anyone or any majority or minority (even me) being a sheep gets us to hell. You may start by questining hadith, if only you want advice.

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    • I don’t usually take advice from parrots. And just so you know (since you don’t seem to), there isn’t anybody who DOESN’T question hadīths. In matters of creed, I DON’T blindly follow. But you’re just parroting that “200 years” nonsense, which leads me think blind-following is all you’re doing at the moment.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Calling a quranist a parrot is the most illogical thing one can ever say. A quranist is a person who thinks for himself.

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    • I’m basing it off observation. You’re repeating their falsehood. If you really thought for yourself, you’d know better and not be a parrot.

      If you’re sincere, ask questions. Don’t bust up in here parroting that tired old “200 year” business.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Ok lets get to the point and stop calling others names. Isn’t it true that the book is 250 years old?

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    • Oh, 250 now. Which book?

      Liked by 1 person

    • There many books im talking about the famous bukhari book

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    • Yes. There are many books. And here you are talking like Imam al-Bukhari’s compilation is the earliest.

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    • So give me a book of hadith from the time of the prophet. Then we will see if you should follow that book.

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    • Why would you need one? What kind of silly goal-post moving is that? And you’ve done nothing yet to demonstrate you’re anything more than a parrot, so you’re changing the subject.

      But fine. So do you think the Imams Nu`man bin Thabit or Malik ibn Anas were some kind of satans when they related, let’s say in Imam Malik’s case, from one person who related from a Sahabi?

      Are you kidding?

      Liked by 2 people

    • وَقَالُوا رَبَّنَا إِنَّا أَطَعْنَا سَادَتَنَا وَكُبَرَاءَنَا فَأَضَلُّونَا السَّبِيلَا

      And they will say, “Our Lord, indeed we obeyed our masters and our dignitaries, and they led us astray from the [right] way.

      -Sourate Al-Ahzab, Aya 67

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    • I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt because you’re just a parrot and assume you don’t know the people you’re applying that verse to. And I’ll quote one of the best of them in response:

      كلمة حق اريد بها باطل

      Liked by 1 person

    • @ziedzouaoui

      Those 2nd century AH books are actually based on material collected during the Prophet’s time and after his death, such as the Sahifah of Hammam ibn Munabbih who was a pupil of Abu Hurayrah (which is published[1]), and you find that many hadiths (98 IIRC) in it are all found in al-Bukhari and Muslim’s Sahih collection, and all of them are also found in Imam Ahmad’s Musnad, meaning they’ve been merged into them. So this idea that hadiths were written down only “200 years” after the Prophet’s death is contrary to all available evidence.

      [1] : http://waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=2656

      Liked by 3 people

    • Thos books are not accepted by God my brother.

      تِلْكَ آيَاتُ اللَّهِ نَتْلُوهَا عَلَيْكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَ اللَّهِ وَآيَاتِهِ يُؤْمِنُونَ

      These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?

      -Sourate Al-Jathiya, Aya 6

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    • @ziedzouaoui

      My brother, that verse doesn’t imply that the statements and deeds of the Prophet shouldn’t be followed.

      Q 3:31-2: Say, ‘If you love God, follow me, and God will love you and forgive you your sins; God is most forgiving, most merciful.’ Say, ‘Obey God and the Messenger,’ but if they turn away, [know that] God does not love those who ignore [His commands].

      Liked by 3 people

    • Look here bro the prophet was forbidden from from uttering anything other than the Quran. Following the prophet is by following the Quran.

      [That] indeed, the Qur’an is the word of a noble Messenger.
      And it is not the word of a poet; little do you believe.
      Nor the word of a soothsayer; little do you remember.
      [It is] a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
      Had he ever uttered any other religious utterances (attributed to us).
      -Sourate Al-Haqqah

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    • We would have seized him by the right hand;

      -Sourate Al-Haqqah

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    • @ziedzouaoui

      “Look here bro the prophet was forbidden from from uttering anything other than the Quran.”

      Alas, you’re ignoring the verses and resorting instead to false implications. 69:44 says, “And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, …” Where does it say what you suggest?

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    • Religious sayings. We are talking about sayings other than the Quran here.

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    • He was forbidden to utter any sayings other than the Quran.

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  2. Well I guess he didn’t get to bring his name with him. That appears to have been swallowed up by the religion of Arabism

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    • I guess Sh. Hamza Yusuf is wise enough to adopt a better name.

      Hamza (حمزة‎‎ ) meaning strong or steadfast which is also the name of uncle of the holy Prophet who had helped him tremendously during his ministry and Yusuf is the name after a revered biblical Prophet: יוֹסֵף Yôsēp̄ or يوسف‎ Yūsuf. Both are semitic names.

      You on the other hand use a strange name, which has nothing to do with the semites an indication that you have been swallowed up by the religion of Latinism.

      Liked by 5 people

    • LOL, Cerbie is a follower of Latinism!

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  3. “ Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. 33 “We are going up to Jerusalem,” he said, “and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, 34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”

    Jesus’ own words falsify the claim made by the sheikh.

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    • As always ZERO evidence Jesus said those words.

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    • Haha- it’s from Mark 10, the same chapter Paul Williams uses in his dawah so you’ve just inadvertently dismissed Paul’s dawah attempts

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    • Actually, Jesus’ own (alleged) words falsify himself, because he said he would be in the earth for 3 days and 3 nights (Matthew 12:40). You can’t fit 3 days and 3 nights from Friday to Sunday.

      Liked by 3 people

    • First of all I’m not PW.
      Secondly, the reason we (including Br Paul) quote your bible verses is because you believe in them, not us.
      Why do xtians always repeat that comment?
      We don’t believe your book is inspired. And if you’re going to start with the boring old ‘argument’ that the Quran affirms your book then I invite you just visit this site for the refutation:
      http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/does_islam_endorse_the_bible__

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    • “three days and nights” is a Hebrew figure of speech referring to any part of three days and nights.

      Now, how about you try not to deflect and deal with the text i cited? It clearly demonstrates that this Muslim is following conjecture, unless the Christianity he took across to Islam was some heretical version.

      I never understand why muslim converts like this need to create fake parallels. It would not
      Makes him look disceptive and dishonest

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    • By default muslims do not reject the gospels wholesale. There are some resonances of the true Injeel of Prophet Isa. Those who are conversant with New Testament and who are sincere and using his God given intellect will naturally find the the Qur’an as connecting the dots. That’s how they filter the falsehood from the truth.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Lol, let me guess. You’ve studied Hebrew under some professor?

      How conveniet that your god decided to use a “figure of speech”! Why didn’t he just clearly say that he would be in the earth for three days instead of erroneously adding three nights in there just for the sake of a “figure of speech”?

      Oh and it’s not and deflection idiot. You’re the one who mentioned the verse. I’m just pointing out how you shot yourself in the foot.

      Liked by 1 person

    • “As always ZERO evidence Jesus said those words.”

      Evidence that it was the angel Gabriel who truly revealed the words of the Quran to pedo Mo?

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    • AP,

      “We don’t believe your book is inspired. ”

      And we don’t believe your silly little book is inspired neither! LOL

      My friend at the end of the day you guys believe in someone who nonced up a little child. So what makes you think you have any sort of authority to question the legitimacy of Christianity?

      Islam is false. Period. So who the hell are you smelly Muslims to scrutinise Christians and think we should take you seriously?

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    • ‘who the hell are you smelly Muslims’

      LOLOLOL what a demented child.

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    • Bad sammie, you worship an old man from Canaan who ordered his minions to kill all living things (except for the virgins)! Why should anyone take you seriously?

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    • Evidence that it was the angel Gabriel who truly revealed the words of the Quran to pedo Mo?
      We believe Muhammad was a prophet of God so we don’t have to rely on historical evidence. Our faith that he received the words of God through the angel Gabriel rests on his prophethood. We have authentic narrations that the prophet said he received the Words of God through the Gabriel.
      Your pornbook that has the 4 ‘biographies’ holds zero authenticity. If Jesus really said the things he said in your pornbook then we’ll accept it. You’re trying to equate the authenticity of a Prophet’s (Muhammad) claim with the authenticity of unknown potatoes who wrote those ‘gospels’. You are comparing apples and oranges. When a prophet makes a claim then that is true by divine revelation but when someone else says that a prophet said something then you need historical proof of that which YOU don’t have. Prophet Muhammad (saw) getting his revelation through the angel Gabriel was a statement by the Prophet and how do we know this? Because of authentic hadith. So we know he said this and because he is a prophet of God that claim is true. Now let’s apply this to your potato book. Jesus allegedly said the things you demented friend paulus quoted. How do we know this? We don’t! Cus your potato book has no authenticity. So you failed!
      You truly are a FUCKING MORON sama.

      “And we don’t believe your silly little book is inspired neither! LOL”

      This was a response to your demented crosstian buddy paulus. He pretended that we think Mark 10 is true. We don’t. So you just embarrassed yourself as usual.

      “My friend at the end of the day you guys believe in someone who nonced up a little child. So what makes you think you have any sort of authority to question the legitimacy of Christianity?”

      You believe in a mangod who was squeezed out of a vagina you sick fuck. You believe in a pornbook thrown together by unknown authors so the question should be: who the fuck are you to even make a ‘peep’ sound about the religion of God Almighty which is Islam.
      You can’t even bring ONE just ONE quote of ANYONE before the 20th century that criticized the Prophet (saw) for marrying Aisha at her young age. Not even ONE.
      Come one sama. Bring all your cross worshiping friends together and try to bring ONE quote of ANYONE before the 20th century criticizing the Prophet for marring Aisha at her young age. A challenge that I have put forward countless of times but not ONE cross worshiping idiot that accepts the challenge.
      Pathetic!

      Your religion is garbage. Your book is moronic and only fit for people with porn addiction.
      Now go worship you three gods fucking loser.

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    • “Why didn’t he just clearly say that he would be in the earth for three days“

      He did. “They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, 34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”

      A figure of speech is clear to native speakers of any language. Just because you, a secular western Muslim, doesn’t understand the nuances of other languages doesn’t make them incorrect. But of course you use english expressions all the time on this blog so your protestations is just smoke because like usual you are in over your head.

      Eric- you won’t find a single nt expert who uses the Koran to interpret the gospels. Your approach is only what Muslims are forced to do because the Koran contradicts so much of the former prophets. So when thekoran affirms those formerprophets you are left creating this doctrine to pick up the pieces

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    • Hahahaha, the prophecy was for “three days and three nights”, stupid. Stop lying for Jesus.

      Scholars recognize the problem, even if brainwashed idiots like you don’t. See Geza Vermes, for example. He spoke and understood Hebrew. Are you telling me that he didn’t realize it was a “figure of speech”? When will you stop making a fool of yourself and stop pretending like you know something we don’t?

      Liked by 2 people

    • Vermes showed that in Jewish thought, a part of a day could be interpreted as a full day and the same applied to nights. Based on this observation, he said that there is no way to fit 3 nights from Friday to Sunday morning.

      Liked by 1 person

    • You’re hilarious. You first scoff at the idea of a figure of speech, then say “why didn’t a Hebrew speaker notice it” then you realise that that same Hebrew speaker did notice it. Did google help you again?

      You refuted yourself it’s not worth talking to you.

      Of course, I’d be happy to discuss the topic but you need to tell me whether it isn’t a figure of speech (your first wrong claim) or whether it is (now that you’ve googled it)?

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    • LOL, Cerbie you pathetic wretch! As I said, your Bible says “three days and three nights”. I know you trinitarians have trouble counting, but try to keep up as I count with you:

      3 days – Friday, Saturday, Sunday
      3 nights – Friday night, Saturday night…oops! No third night!

      And here is the quote from Geza Vermes, as quoted in one of my articles:

      …Jesus was supposed to have resurrected after three days and three nights, as mentioned in the summary. Before we analyze this prophecy, it needs to be made clear that the time period of “three days and three nights” did not necessarily have to denote three 24-hour periods. Biblical scholar Geza Vermes states that according to “Jewish time reckoning”:

      “…part of a day or night was accepted as a full day or night (yShab 12a; bPes4a)”(The Authentic Gospel of Jesus (London: Penguin Books, 2003), p. 183.).

      However, even with this concession, it is plainly obvious that there is absolutely no way for the prophecy to have been fulfilled if Jesus died on Friday and resurrected on Sunday. As Vermes observes:

      “This would allow us to count three days from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning, but no stretch of the imagination could fit three nights into that period” (Ibid.)

      https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/the-crucifixion-of-jesus-in-the-bible-and-the-quran/

      Get it now? How long will you remain a loser?

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    • Go back and have a read of Genesis 1. See if you can pick up how the hebrews understood what a day constituted. Then think about how when Jesus says he will “rise in three days” this is linked with “3 days and three nights”.

      See if you can work it out without relying on google.

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    • ROTFL!! So once again, Cerbie the neutered dog knows better than a respected scholar like Vermes? Well, how convenient!

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  4. The reward of being a sheep in the Quran .

    وَقَالُوا رَبَّنَا إِنَّا أَطَعْنَا سَادَتَنَا وَكُبَرَاءَنَا فَأَضَلُّونَا السَّبِيلَا

    And they will say, “Our Lord, indeed we obeyed our masters and our dignitaries, and they led us astray from the [right] way.

    -Sourate Al-Ahzab, Aya 67

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  5. Hamza Yusuf Hanson? LOL

    Another western wannabe Arab joker…

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    • It’s so silly isn’t it? Who tells these converts to adopt a silly Arab name? Brainwashed

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    • I know, right? So silly to have a name in a dead language like Lat…oh wait. Are you talking about Hamza Yusuf or yourself? Isn’t your full Latin name Cerberus paulus? You are included in the Canidae family which includes wolves and dogs, correct?

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  6. “Why didn’t he just clearly say that he would be in the earth for three days instead of erroneously adding three nights in there just for the sake of a “figure of speech”?”

    I reply:

    The phrase “the heart of the earth” doesn’t necessarily mean three days in the tomb.

    He wasn’t three days in the tomb anyway.

    It should be interpreted spiritually.

    The time that Jesus was in the “heart of the earth” probably began at the time of his betrayal and arrest.

    Your approach to the biblical text, especially prophecy, is often ham handed.

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    • LOL, don’t make me laugh Ignoramus!

      There is no evidence for your idiotic assertions. Isn’t it awfully convenient that you want to interpret “three days and three nights” and “heart of the earth” in a “spiritual” way? It seems whenever there is a contradiction in the Bible, you clowns appeal to “metaphors” and “spiritual meanings”.

      His body was in the tomb for three days. He was buried on Friday and resurrected on Sunday. That’s three days. But there is no way you can fit three nights in there.

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  7. ““This would allow us to count three days from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning, but no stretch of the imagination could fit three nights into that period” (Ibid.)”

    The night of his arrest and betrayal belongs to the prophecy.

    Three days and nights denotes a conscious spiritual experience beginning with his arrest and betrayal.

    What matters is what Jesus consciously experiences in his soul beginning at the time of his arrest.

    This is alluded to in the expression “in the heart of the earth”.

    All the time that Jonah was in the belly of the whale he was alive, conscious and active. The state and location of his body in the tomb does not fully correspond to this and exhaust the meaning of the prophecy.

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    • Blah, blah, blah. No evidence, only personal opinions. Who are you trying to convince? Yourself?

      Jonah was alive. Good point! That is another reason why the comparison does not work. Jonah never died! Jesus did allegedly die! So the prophecy is misused by the gospel writers and fails miserably.

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  8. Amazing what dead men can do!

    1 Peter 3 v 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

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  9. The Cow
    [2.65] And certainly you have known those among you who exceeded the limits of the Sabbath, so We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.
    The Women
    [4.47] O you who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.
    [4.154] And We lifted the mountain (Sainai) over them at (the li taking of the covenant) and We said to them: Enter the door making obeisance; and We said to them: Do not exceed the limits of the Sabbath, and We made with them a firm covenant.
    The Elevated Places
    [7.163] And ask them about the town which stood by the sea; when they exceeded the limits of the Sabbath, when their fish came to them on the day of their Sabbath, appearing on the surface of the water, and on the day on which they did not keep the Sabbath they did not come to them; thus did We try them because they transgressed.
    The Bee
    [16.124] The Sabbath was ordained only for those who differed about it, and most surely your Lord will judge between them on the resurrection day concerning that about which they differed.

    The abrogator of the Sabbath condemns the Jews for breaking the Sabbath!

    More than a touch of hypocrisy don’t you think?

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    • Oh you idiot! Don’t you get tired of being exposed so much?

      The Sabbath laws were for the Jews only, stupid. Many of their laws were enforced as a way of punishing them for their sins. Even the verse you quoted (16:124) says so! Notice that it says “for those who differed about it”.

      But with the coming of Islam, many of these laws were abrogated and made easier. Thus, Muslims are not required to rest on Friday. We can make our Friday prayer and then return to our daily lives. Alhamdulillah!

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    • So Allah words changed then haha

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    • So Cerbie is back for more neutering. Hahaha.

      Allah (swt) can abrogate previous laws and replace them with new ones, stupid.

      But unlike Allah (swt), your pagan Canaanite god actually “regrets” doing something:

      “The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled” (Gen. 6:6).

      Cerbie’s god has regrets! Hahahaha!

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    • “Allah (swt) can abrogate previous laws and replace them with new ones, stupid.”

      So why all the complaining about Christians following the new covenant in this thread?

      See, because you are so predictable, I knew you would give me an answer that demonstrates your utter hypocrisy toward other faiths, primarily Christians. Thanks!! Lol

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    • LOL, are you really that dense? We are talking about a law being changed and replaced with a new law. The law is still in effect! Get it? But clowns like you claim that you no longer have to follow any of the laws! Well, not all of you clowns. Your fellow clown madman thinks that death for adultery and homosexuality (but not witchcraft) are still in effect: https://bloggingtheology.net/2017/11/28/im-so-hungry-i-could-eat-my-own-children-and-not-share-any-with-you-deuteronomy-2853-55/#comment-63197

      See, because you are such an idiot, I knew you would set yourself up for yet another neutering. Thanks! LOL!!

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    • “We are talking about a law being changed and replaced with a new law“

      Let’s test this. I wanna see what Allah has to say.

      Old law: day of atonement

      New law in Islam: ?

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    • ROFTL!! Cerbie got neutered and then moved the goalpost! So Cerbie, are you saying that there is no hypocrisy in Muslims for criticizing you clowns for ignoring the law completely?

      Once again, the day of atonement was for the Jews only. They sinned. That’s why they had to atone.

      For Muslims, it is required to attend Friday prayers, but then once finished, they may go about their daily business, so long as it is in accordance with Allah’s laws. As the Quran states:

      “O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew! And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah: and celebrate the Praises of Allah often (and without stint): that ye may prosper” (62:9-10).

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    • “Once again, the day of atonement was for the Jews only“

      Says who? You? Show me where Allah abrogated this law. Then show me what the new law in Islam is. Remember, you claimed “Allah (swt) can abrogate previous laws and replace them with new ones, stupid.”

      Let’s try again

      Old law- levitical priests

      New law in Islam?

      Let’s see what Allah has to say about that one…

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    • LOL, I guess you are that dense!

      To whom was the Torah given, dummy? Hmm, let’s see…the Israelites! Yeah, that’s it! Thus, all of the laws of the Torah were for them, and not necessarily for all people. For sure, certain laws were for all times and all people, such as the prohibition of eating pork, but other laws for the Israelites only, such as the Sabbath law.

      Either use you head or admit that you are an idiot grasping at straws.

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    • I guess that’s strike two. Because you haven’t given any evidence that those laws were abrogated as per your claim.

      Ergo, you can’t complain if Jews take back the Temple Mount and practice their god given laws. That’s the logical conclusion of your nonsense. If they aren’t abrogated they must still be in effect lest you admit that Allah’s laws have changed?

      Let’s try again

      Old law: Passover

      New law in Islam…

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    • ROTFL! Cerbie’s continuous neuterings have left him dazed and confused.

      I know it’s difficult for brainwashed trinitarians to use their heads, so it’s no surprise that you are pretending like your asinine questions have not been answered. That’s the fruit of your pagan, Canaanite religion.

      Let’s see if you will eventually figure it out that all the things you have asked about only apply to the Israelites, and thus do not have to apply to everyone else. That’s already 3 strikes for you! Or is it 3 wickets? Hahahahaha!

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    • “Let’s see if you will eventually figure it out that all the things you have asked about only apply to the Israelites“

      Do Allah didn’t abrogate them then as per your claim. Shocking!!

      Secondly, by your logic you have no recourse to criticise Christians. If the laws were only ever meant to apply to the Israelites then you’ve just dismantled Islamic dawah and it’s criticism of Christian theology!

      Don’t be fooled- you hyperbole doesn’t cover up your multitude of illlogical nonsense. We can all see that you big claim to save Islam only demonstrates how inconsistent muhammadism is. You follow man made conjecture not the words of Allah since you cannot provide evidence he abrogated the laws discussed. At least Christians have solid ground to stand on

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    • The moron just doesn’t get it!

      I already explained all this. Certain laws were for the Israelites only (e.g. not working on the Sabbath), while others were universal (e.g. prohibition of pork).

      Christians, on the other hand, maintain that NONE of the laws apply anymore and ALL have been abrogated. There is a BIG difference there, dummy!

      Poor, poor Cerbie. All you can do is repeat the same nonsense, like a dog endlessly howling at the moon.

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    • No, I get it. Your earlier claim was simply false. You can’t show me where Allah abrogated the laws and replaced them with new ones. You say they were only for Jews as an attempt to save face but now you have no leverage to criticise Christians, not have you provided any reference for Allah telling us those laws were only for Jews. At least in our theology we have solid ground in seeing the laws fulfilled in christ.

      Your a typical muhammadan- brainwashed to accept the masjid’s Propaganda. You don’t think for yourself. In the space of a few comments you demonstrated how absurd Islam’s position is. Your a masjidian. I don’t expect any less from you.

      Now, if be happy to keep chatting once you show me where Allah abrogated the laws like you claimed. No more red herrings or insults. No more deflections. Show me.

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  10. “Many of their laws were enforced as a way of punishing them for their sins.”

    That’s an asinine statement. What else does the law do in any case?

    Care to provide an example?

    Is the Sabbath an example of a “punishment” law?

    How could Mohammed command the Jews to become Muslims and believe in him without making them rebel against their “punishment” laws?

    Like

    • Oh madman, you idiot. There are two aspects to the law, the part that prohibits something, and then the part that prescribes the punishment for breaking that law. The Jews were prohibited from working on the Sabbath. If anyone broke that law, they would be punished. But the law prohibiting working was in itself a punishment due to its difficulty. That is why it was abrogated and no longer required for Muslims. Muslims can go about their daily routine after they make their Friday prayers. The strict laws of the Jews were no longer applicable.

      As I already pointed out to your fellow clown Ignoramus, the Quran states that the Sabbath law itself was given because the Jews differed about it. That was their punishment.

      Here is another example of a law that was meant to punish the Jews for their sins:

      “For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone: this in recompense for their wilful disobedience: for We are true (in Our ordinances)” (6:146).

      The Quran also states that even Jesus (pbuh) abrogated some laws as per God’s commands:

      ““‘(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me. “‘It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight’”” (3:50-51).

      Like

  11. There was no need for additional laws to punish the Jews because they were already built in to the law in the form of the curses listed in Deuteronomy.

    To differ on the details of Sabbath observance is not necessarily a sin. Both sides could have been within the bounds of the law even though they differed on some details.

    The idea that the Sabbath was given as a punishment or curse is blasphemous as it was patterned after God’s example of resting after his creative activity. Laws which are meant to sanctify the people cannot be designated as punishments, such as clean and unclean laws for example.

    Also such a claim makes God unjust by perpetually punishing different people for the sins of another group of people committed in the past.

    Obviously the whole thing is a heinous scheme with the purpose of perpetually defaming the Jews to whip up hatred against them for political purposes.

    Like

    • Blah, blah, blah. Once again, no scriptural support. Only madman’s own opinions.

      Your own Bible says that God will punish successive generations for the sins of their ancestors, moron!
      Obviously, you are just an idiot with nothing substantive to add.

      Also, don’t apply your Canaanite god’s limitations to Allah (swt). Allah does not rest, just as He does not have “regrets”. Your Canaanite god needed to rest and also regretted doing things in the past.

      And why can’t a law that “sanctifies” not also be meant to punish? What is the purpose of punishments, stupid? They serve as expiation for the sin committed! Duh!

      Like

  12. “Your own Bible says that God will punish successive generations for the sins of their ancestors, moron!”

    I reply, Not perpetually and upon all as in Islam’s treatment of the Jews. Biblical judgement always has restoration and reconciliation in view. The sins of the fathers who hate God are visited upon the children to the third and fourth generation but not forever and indiscriminately upon all as Allah upon the Jews, as described in the Koran.

    King James Bible

    Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    Faiz said “And why can’t a law that “sanctifies” not also be meant to punish? What is the purpose of punishments, stupid? They serve as expiation for the sin committed! Duh!”

    I reply:

    Blah, blah, blah. Once again, no scriptural support. only Faiz’s own opinions.

    Can you provide an example of how this works from the bible?

    Like

    • Funny forgotten original sin

      Liked by 1 person

    • Madman, please check yourself into an asylum. Your psychosis keeps getting worse.

      Think carefully, stupid. You believe in original sin, as Burhanuddin pointed out! Also, the Israelites tended to sin and disobey God quite often. And sometimes, the punishment that was sent upon them clearly lasted a lot longer than 3 or 4 generations. Take the exile after the Romans conquered Jerusalem. The Jews remained in exile for more than 500 years. Take a guess who let them back in? Come on, I know you know!

      I am not arguing from the basis of the Bible, stupid. What do I care what your book says? I am asking you to back your idiotic statements with evidence, not your own opinions. Why are you speaking for your god?

      Like

  13. ““For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone: this in recompense for their wilful disobedience: for We are true (in Our ordinances)” (6:146).”

    Why is this a punishment? For what sins? Didn’t the writer of the Koran understand that the law was given at Sinai before the nation had committed any sins?

    Like

  14. LOL, you moron! After the law was already given. Were you born this stupid?

    Like

  15. The sabbath law was given before the people worshipped the golden calf. That debunks the idea that it was a “punishment” law. The laws of clean and unclean later.

    Like

  16. ““For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone: this in recompense for their wilful disobedience: for We are true (in Our ordinances)” (6:146).”

    It is not a punishment in it’s biblical form at all.

    Like

  17. That’s just silly and desperate.

    Like

  18. “Also, don’t apply your Canaanite god’s limitations to Allah (swt). Allah does not rest, just as He does not have “regrets”. Your Canaanite god needed to rest and also regretted doing things in the past.”

    It’s called anthropomorphism.

    Islam has them too. I guess you worship a canaanite deity as well!!

    Translation of Al-Qur’an 055:027:
    “And the Face of your Lord full of Majesty and Honour will abide forever.”

    Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 503:
    Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah:
    When this Verse:–‘Say (O Muhammad!): He has Power to send torments on you from above,’ (6.65) was revealed; The Prophet said, “I take refuge with Your Face.” Allah revealed:– ‘..or from underneath your feet.’ (6.65) The Prophet then said, “I seek refuge with Your Face!” Then Allah revealed:–‘…or confuse you in party-strife.’ (6.65) Oh that, the Prophet said, “This is easier.”

    Like

    • ROTFL!! Do you delight in embarrassing yourself? Your Bible says that God has “regrets”. That is not the same as saying He has a “face”. Muslims believe He has a “face”, but we don’t extrapolate on what that means. And we definitely do not say that it is a “face” like a human face. The same cannot be done with your god’s “resting” and “regrets”. Are you saying he “rests” differently from humans? Your Bible even says that he was “refreshed” after he rested! What kind of god is that?

      Like

    • Google what the word athropomorphism means. It will answer each of those questions.

      As usual, you allow one thing for Islam but not for anyone else. Inconsistent and hypocritical. Stop bringing shame to Islam.

      Like

    • Oh Cerbie, when will you stop being an idiot?

      As I said, things like Allah’s “Face” are not like human faces. We don’t know what it means. We just believe that He has a “Face”. In contrast, your Bible says that God “rested”. How did he rest? More importantly, WHY did he rest? He’s supposed to be the supreme being! He doesn’t need to rest! Nor does He have “regrets” because that implies that He didn’t know something would happen beforehand.

      “It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”

      “The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.”

      “Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.”

      I ask again: what kind of god is that?

      Liked by 1 person

    • “ In contrast, your Bible says that God “rested”“

      Yes, and as I said it’s an anthropomorphism. If you an ounce of decent you’d open a commentary and take a read.

      Instead, you allow for figurative anthropomorphisms in the Koran but insist on literalism for the bible.

      “And we definitely do not say that it is a “face” like a human face.”

      This is dumb. You are basically making the Koran meaningless. If the face and hands of Allah are unlike like anything we know, then they aren’t a face or hand. You are basically saying Allah has a fhsjdjridkdnrkdi <——— the reason words have meaning is because they have a referent

      Like

    • You truly are a magnificent moron!

      Try to think carefully, stupid. Throw out all your a priori assumptions and what you have read in biased commentaries. Consider the fact that many of your god’s characteristics are borrowed from Canaanite mythology, it is not surprising why the Bible says that your god “rested”. Here is a good commentary for you. Jonathan Burnside states in his book “God, Justice, and Society: Aspects of Law and Legality in the Bible”:

      “This rest is presented as the climax of the story of universal creation (Genesis 2:2-3) where God is shown to triumph over the forces of chaos. “Victory in battle” followed by “rest” is a common motif in ancient Near Eastern (ANE) stories. Canaanite mythology describes the defeat of the sea god Yamm by the storm god Baal, who thereupon constructs a “temple” in which to rest. As a result, the commandments to keep Shabbat (Sabbath) invite and permit Israel to imitate God’s activity in creation” (p. 71).

      See? This is more than just mere “anthropomorphism”. It’s simply repackaged paganism.

      Your denial is your problem. If you had an ounce of reason, you would admit the facts instead of engaging in pathetic gymnastics.

      Like

    • “Verily in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest! ”

      Tell me little masjidian, when the Koran says that hearts find rest, is the Koran teaching us that the heart actually stops working? Does it stop pumPaulus ng blood and upholding the body? Is the heart wearied and tired by remembering Allah?

      Hmm, but god forbid the bible uses the term in relation to God and the only masjidian logical outcome is literalism and paganism.

      And that is exactly how simple it is to demolish your argument. You are more stupid and illogical than muhammad’s Camel urine drinking medicine!

      Like

    • ROTFL!! Awww, is the little man-worshiping dog getting upset?

      I love seeing Gentile dogs get desperate and keep moving the goalpost every time they get refuted. As I showed, the idea of a resting god was a very common motif in Canaanite culture. The gods had to rest after performing some important act. There was no ambiguity here or metaphor. They literally “rested”. Your Bible makes it clear that it was not a metaphor like hearts “resting”. God “rested” so that he could be “refreshed”.

      Like

  19. @Faiz,

    “““For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone: this in recompense for their wilful disobedience: for We are true (in Our ordinances)” (6:146).””

    No one eats fat by itself anyway. The big lumps of fat from the stomach were burnt on the altar.

    The Sign of the Sabbath

    (Numbers 15:32-36)

    12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

    17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

    But the children of Israel who kept the law were Muslims according to you guys. Moses was also a Muslim according to your belief. They had to keep the sabbath for ever, as Muslims, because of creation.

    So how can Mohammed abrogate the sabbath?

    Why was the Sabbath difficult as you claim? This is just a made up falsehood to justify getting rid of it.

    Like

    • “No one eats fat by itself anyway. The big lumps of fat from the stomach were burnt on the altar.”

      Oy vei! What difference does it make? You can still eat the fat with the meat.

      “But the children of Israel who kept the law were Muslims according to you guys. Moses was also a Muslim according to your belief. They had to keep the sabbath for ever, as Muslims, because of creation.”

      Eh, wrong! The Sabbath was for their people only. It was never meant to be eternal. All the prophets before Muhammad (pbuh) were sent to their own people. But when Muhammad (pbuh), he brought a universal religion. The essentials were the same: worship only the One God, make prayers, fast, give charity, etc. But individual laws that were given to previous nations were no longer applicable.

      “So how can Mohammed abrogate the sabbath?”

      Because it was only for the Israelites.

      “Why was the Sabbath difficult as you claim? This is just a made up falsehood to justify getting rid of it.”

      LOL, let’s see what your Bible says.

      “Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.” – Hmm, that must have been tough during the winter!

      And let’s not forget that your savior’s disciples were picking grains during the Sabbath because they were hungry. The Pharisees reacted with shock because the Bible very strictly warns against doing any work on the Sabbath. Jesus gave them some examples of why it is okay to break the law in extenuating circumstances, but the law specifically states that the Israelites were to prepare their food ahead of time before the Sabbath:

      “Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.”

      So there was no excuse for doing any work, even to alleviated hunger.

      Like

    • “This is just a made up falsehood to justify getting rid of it.”

      LOL, that’s rich! Since when do you Christians follow the Sabbath laws? Do you rest on the Sabbath, madman? Do you follow all the regulations of the Sabbath according to the Tanakh?

      Like

  20. “This is just a made up falsehood to justify getting rid of it.”

    Irony just died, got resurrected then died again.

    Just how you can make a statement like that when your whole faith is based on Satan Paul renouncing the whole of the laws for exactly that reason (to get rid of it)

    Liked by 1 person

  21. LOL, let’s see what your Bible says.

    “Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.” – Hmm, that must have been tough during the winter!

    And let’s not forget that your savior’s disciples were picking grains during the Sabbath because they were hungry. The Pharisees reacted with shock because the Bible very strictly warns against doing any work on the Sabbath. Jesus gave them some examples of why it is okay to break the law in extenuating circumstances, but the law specifically states that the Israelites were to prepare their food ahead of time before the Sabbath:

    I reply:

    Fires once lit were kept burning in ancient times. So it was just a matter of having enough fuel on hand to keep the fire burning over the Sabbath. That’s not hardship at all. Lighting a fire from scratch was relatively hard work.

    I wouldn’t classify picking grains as work. You are not collecting a surplus to your immediate needs.

    The sabbath was one of the ten commandments. They cannot be abrogated in my view.

    Another fact is that the decalogue was given on the first day by Moses to the people. Aaron and the elders went with Moses up the mountain on the next day according to the exodus account. So Aaron could not have constructed the calf on that day. The people made the golden calf after they had waited a number of days for Moses to return.

    This all debunks your claim that the sabbath was a punishment law.

    Faiz said “And why can’t a law that “sanctifies” not also be meant to punish? What is the purpose of punishments, stupid? They serve as expiation for the sin committed! Duh!”

    I reply:

    Blah, blah, blah. Once again, no scriptural support. only Faiz’s own opinions.

    Can you provide an example of how this works from the bible?

    Like

    • There goes madman with his usual nonsense. Let’s see what he conjured up in his desperation after disappearing for a few days.

      “Fires once lit were kept burning in ancient times. So it was just a matter of having enough fuel on hand to keep the fire burning over the Sabbath. That’s not hardship at all. Lighting a fire from scratch was relatively hard work.”

      LOL, what kind of magical fires did they have in those days? What kind of endless “fuel”?

      Idiot, unless people had an unending supply of firewood (which they didn’t as we will see), fires would go out. And we find that even going out and getting more wood was not allowed. So, if your fire happened to go out, and you didn’t have more firewood, you could not go and get more or start a new fire. Numbers 15 shows that it was a crime to gather wood on the Sabbath.

      “I wouldn’t classify picking grains as work. You are not collecting a surplus to your immediate needs.”

      There he goes again, making things up with no scriptural support. Work means expending energy. It is the opposite of rest, stupid. The reason did not matter. What mattered was doing any work.

      “The sabbath was one of the ten commandments. They cannot be abrogated in my view.”

      But your savior did abrogate it by allowing his disciples to gather grain on the Sabbath, which was forbidden! Stop making up your own rules, blasphemer!

      “Another fact is that the decalogue was given on the first day by Moses to the people. Aaron and the elders went with Moses up the mountain on the next day according to the exodus account. So Aaron could not have constructed the calf on that day. The people made the golden calf after they had waited a number of days for Moses to return.

      This all debunks your claim that the sabbath was a punishment law.”

      LOL, here is another example of madman digging himself into a bigger hole!

      The Biblical story proves itself to be completely nonsensical and contradictory. How could the Israelites have degenerated into idol worship after having just witnessed God’s power? How could Aaron (pbuh) so easily give in to the mob?! This is how it basically went:

      Israelites: We’re tired of waiting for Moses. He has been gone too long. Aaron, why don’t you make us an idol of a calf to worship?

      Aaron: …Okay, what the hell. Bring me the materials and I will do it.

      It seems pretty silly, doesn’t it? It makes far more sense that the law was given after the Israelites worshiped the golden calf, which is why the Quran states that the episode of the golden calf occurred before Moses (pbuh) took 70 Israelites with him to the mountain.

      So, unfortunately for you, your Bible doesn’t give us any reliable answers. Given the strict rules of the Sabbath, which Jesus (pbuh) obviously tried to relax, it seems pretty obvious that the Sabbath laws were meant to be a punishment for the Israelites’ rebelliousness and lack of faith.

      “Blah, blah, blah. Once again, no scriptural support. only Faiz’s own opinions.

      Can you provide an example of how this works from the bible?”

      Once again, who cares what your Bible says? I don’t care what that contradictory book says.

      But you believe in it, so you need to provide scriptural support for your laughable claims. It’s YOUR scripture, not mine, silly goose! So until you provide evidence from your contradictory book, your stupid claims are meaningless.

      Like

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