Here is a further exposé of Nabeel’s dishonest sleight of hand in front of an American Christian audience. In some small way I am familiar with the religious psychology of these people. When I was a Christian (yes a ‘real’ one – not a Mormon or Jehovah’s Witness) I was baptised in my local Baptist Church. In front of the congregation I gave my testimony of faith – describing the kind of life I led before I became a born-again Christian. Another new Christian was baptized with me, a former street thug who had spent much of his time in prison. I remember the round of applause he received from the audience. The point being that evangelicals love a good testimony, the more lurid and ungodly the sinner’s past the better.
Nabeel is speaking from within this tradition. I imagine there must be a great temptation to ‘improve’ ones testimony, to spice it up, to introduce dramatic risks that did not really happen, to give the audiences what they want to hear. It all makes for a much more vivid and impressive story, and surely does wonders for one’s career as an evangelist. But at what price?
One inconvenient truth remains stubbornly clear however:
If Nabeel had remained a Qadiani ‘Muslim’ not in a million years would he have joined ISIS. His sect’s theology and ethics are strictly pacifist and he would have utterly rejected ‘Jihad’ on principle. Nabeel covers over this inconvenient truth by creating a new truth – that is really a lie.
Categories: Christianity, Islam, Missionaries
Nabeel needs cash and he is getting it from evangelical Christians. Some are using him deliberately to spread lies about Islam, just like how Christians are using Ergun Carner, despite his lies. Some Christians are ignorant about Islam and will not read the materials which are available or ask questions but will depend on any one who said;
1. He is a former Muslim
2. He is a former Islamic Jihadist(Walid Shoebat etc.)
3. She has female genital mutilation or had forced marriages(Irshad Manji, Aayan Ali Hirsi, their mentors and heroes i.e. some ladies are also in the system cashing in from evangelical Christians and Western media)
4. Former Muslim Imam
Christians who are Islamic scholars like John L. Esposito at Georgetown university and non Muslims like Karyn Armstrong, Lesley Hazelton etc. who spent years learning and researching about Islam and can speak Arabic will not get money from evangelical Christians because they will not get what they expect-Islam and all Muslims are bad(May Allah forbid).
Sam Shamoun is not happy with Walid Shoebat because Walid is saturating the market with more lies that Sam Shamoun has not used before and Sam is not quiet happy now that his friends David Wood and Nabeel has been exposed as liars and Walid is becoming more popular among evangelicals than him because his(Walid’s) lies about Islam is much stronger than Shamoun’s.
Shamoun is now frustrated, hence attacking James White who is still a critic of Islam but have repented from painting Islam and all Muslims as tourists. ooops terrorists.
Thanks.
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correction
James White who is still a critic of Islam but has repented from painting Islam as a terrorist religion and all Muslims as terrorists. James White is reading Islam himself and is beginning to tell some truth but James White still has a long way to go to become a truthful Islamic scholar of a Christian faith who tell the truth and is John L. Esposito and others.
Thanks.
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Intellect, I don’t think Nabeel’s primary motive was cash when he got into ministry work. I think the issue he is faced with now leads him to stretch the truth about the past as the full-time missionary and speaking circuit really demands somebody of clout and long-term standing in the Christian community or somebody who has a backstory of particular interest to American Christians. Another demand nowadays is charisma.
Nabeel doesn’t really have this, albeit his further studies and his employment within RZIM. He’s not a Ravi Zacharias or John Macarthur (perhaps one day he will be) – as of now he aint going to pack out buildings and he’s not really the most riveting of speakers so he doesn’t even have that charisma factor.
So this goes to the back story. Folk such as Caner, Kamal Saleem and Shoebat made a career out of their backstories – which are obviously made up. Nabeel ain’t stupid, he knows why those people were successful in filling churches and selling books when they came to speak.
I think the reason why he’s distorting his backstory is because he feels his actual story is underwhleming for the average Christian – saying he was involved in a little-known group called Ahmadiya and then became a Christian after talking with his buddy is not really going to get much attention in the increasingly more competitive evangelical speaking circuit.
Mark my words:
I really would not be surprised if, within 5 years there is a batch of ‘Christians’ on the American speaking circuit claiming to be ex ISIS members who are miles more popular than Nabeel and the rest.
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PS As for Shamoun. I expect him to go after Nabeel in the next few years as Nabeel will say things he disagrees with theologically – Shamoun has seen his waning attention will be boosted by going after his co-religiionists. Always got the feeling Shamoun never really fancied Nabeel.
Interesting he was having a fit over Nouman Ali Khan’s comments labeling Islamophobes as money-motivated. Guess it hit close to home.
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Yahya Slime running off his mouth again, even though I am waiting for this coward to email so we can get our debate underway.
The only home that Norman’s comments hit are Muhammad’s 11 homes that he got for his 11 wives, including his child bride, you know the one playing with dolls and in swings during the time that a 54 year old demented antichrist was having sex with her. And don’t forget that it is your Quran and ahadith that say your deceptive, murdering god got your prophet filthy rich from having his murdering thugs pillage and raping captive women, even married ones to boot! OUCH!
Now stop hiding behind your blog and comments section and let’s get our debate underway.
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Williams, what makes this slime do repulsive is that he constantly produces blogs and videos about us, putting our names in the titles so as to attract attention to his worthless site and YouTube channel. And this slime has the audacity to speak about waning attention. This guy’s filth and deceit makes Allah and his messenger look respectable. Now that truly warrants attention! 😉
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Sam Shamoun I presume?
Well aren’t you charming
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Sam, chill out fella. Think.
You seem Jinn-possessed when you go into this mode.
You do forget I was in your PT room and you had 16 people in there including me – I was there to get some audio. I bet some of the others were there for other reasons too. So after two decades you have about ten people – looks like even less in those Chicago Bible study classes you do. That tells me that you are struggling for attention. I notice you are asking for cash again while your buddy Wood who just copies from you can raise 2 grand in next to no time for a camera (btw has he kicked you to the curb – he’s got Jonathan writing for him while you’re still posting on Keith’s site?), Nabeel looks lke his pockets are lined with fair bi of cash, James R White who ‘berates’ other Christians could have destroyed what remains of your ‘ministry’ if he wanted to last week and you know this that’s why you are in sycophantic mode now constantly talking about how good White is (you’ve changed your tune haven’t you?)
Face facts, these chaps have played you. They tell you to jump, you say how high.
White bossed you. White came at me, yet I stood up to him like a man and didn’t let him and his silly insults phase me. You on the other hand bottled it – knowing you were a midget about to be squashed by Elder White.
Sam, I ask you, you’ve been doing this for two decades full time, why can’t you not pack a church? Why aren’t you not making the money Wood, Nabeel, Jay Smith, White etc. are making?
I remember the times when they would openly admit they would go to your for arguments. I doubt White and co share the profits from their books, talks etc. with you.
Think about it. You’ve been played.
BTW Don’t you not find Yusuf’s admission of what White told him in private a little disturbing?
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YahyaSlime, you mean the same chat room where you came in and I called you out to debate on the filth of your prophet’s life, and where you kept texting me in private begging me to take it easy on you since you weren’t there to debate? The same room where you then ran with your tail between your legs! That same one?
You mean the same White who I just got done praising, and who was in private chat with me where we spoke as brothers with no grudge between us? That same White?
You mean the same Yusuf Ismail who is interested in doing some debates with me for ABN? That same Yusuf?
You mean the same Nabeel Qureshi whom I am about to praise for being used of God to expose the filth of your false prophet and whom God is pleased to allow him to speak to packed houses so as to expose the filth of Muhammad and the beauty of Jesus for all to see and hear? That same Nabeel?
Unlike you, I don’t care whether I pack churches or not since I am not your Muhammad who was all about fame sex and murder. So you got me confused with your prophet.
My concern is to see Jesus glorified, Muhammad exposed for his filth and wickedness so that Christians and Muslims can see how filthy Islam is and how beautiful Jesus is. And it’s happening thanks to my brothers White, Wood, Qureshi, Murray, Slick and others.
Now instead of barking off her fella, send me an email so we can get our debate underway. You need to back your bark with a little bit of a bite.
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Sam, can we get back on the topic of this thread?
You do realise that I was responding to Intellect (only one of my posts went through – the other must have got lost in the spam). I did not initiate a discussion about you on this thread.
Calm down. This is the type of reason why people contact Shabir and others instructing them not to engage with you.
I understand you’ve been rapped on the knuckles and you tried to use MBC and I as scapegoats – it was you who was insulting White and encouraging people on social media to do so. It was you who made your true feelings about White known.
While you’re in damage control and chumming up to those who have more influence in the Christian apologetics-Islamophobia industry because you recognise they are your lifeline, just as you admitted if you don’t be ‘lovey-dovey’ they don’t use you and recommend you to others, will you report Nabeel Qureshi’s family to the FBI (or whcihever department deals with homeland security over there):
PS If you want to contact me so we can have an mature discussion and perhaps come to some sort of understanding, yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk or search me on FB.
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Shamoun is one sex-obsessed troll!
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YahyaSlime, you barking again? Let me put this in caps for you read: I AM NOT A PROPHET OR ANYONE SPECIAL FOR ANYONE TO USE OR RECOMMEND! THEREFORE WHY SHOULD NABEEL OR ANYONE MAKE REFERENCE TO ME?
So being a wicked son of Satan you think I am like you Muhammadans or like Muhammad’s companions who turned against each other and murdered one another like the jihadi thugs that they were. You also got me confused with your buddy Williams since he likes to throw all you Muhammadans under the busy every chance he gets.
Therefore, stop barking here AND SEND ME AN EMAIL SO WE CAN GET OUR DEBATE UNDERWAY!
In the meantime, go back to smothering your black stone much like your pagan prophet did.
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K-mark you again got me confused with Allah and his profit since they were the ones who went around trolling for women whom they could rape or prostitute and call it muta. They even turned paradise into a whore house where swelling breasted whores wait for jihadists to come and deflower them with eternal erections. The fact you believe this filth shows you are slime like Yahya.
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Sam, I’m burning the midnight oil. I don’t have any commitments tomorrow.
I will give you a bit more attention then,
Do you want me to report you to the IRS? I get the impression you don’t pay your taxes on your donations.
Wood, on his site mentions his tax status…you don’t. Perhaps your loyalty lies with Kuwait hence why you don’t pay your taxes. However, the Bible instructs you to pay your taxes (whether it’s to the USA or Jizya to a Caliphate) so the question is, can you prove you’ve been paying taxes or have you been fiddling the system.
Any Americans reading this, get on to the IRS (and I don’t mean the tag team from WWE).
And back to the post, do you think Nabeel has been less than honest with all this joining ISIS malarky?
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YahyaSlime, your prophet used to burn the midnight oil also by sleeping with a minor who would then was his seven stains from his clothes since he wasn’t able to control himself in the presence of a young girl still playing with her dolls.
Report me to the IRS? You again have me confused with Muhammad who had men murder people and rape their women in order to get a hold of their wealth. So now who is going to report your prophet for stealing people’s properties, raping women and defiling young minors in the name of Allah?
You further confuse me with you Muhammdadans who live on welfare, and illegally wed several wives and father many children so they can bilk the government for food and housing. So do I need to get the government on your case? How many wives and women whom you prostitute in the name of your profit do you have which you have kept hidden from the government which you are leeching off of.
So now instead of talking tough here send me an email tonight so I can then cc ABN to set up your slaughter for everyone to see on live satellite. You can even let that other slime K-Mark join you since you are going to need all the help you can get.
So stop barking off here and contact me to arrange the debate.
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Was his seven stains= wash his semen stains
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Allah or his ‘profit’ does not go around trolling blogs. So I am on mark when I say that Shamoun is one sex-obsessed troll.
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Kmark. They were to busy going around to villages, cities and towns, murdering the men and raping their women. So that didn’t leave that with too much time to troll the internet, when they were busy prostituting women under the guise of muta.
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Kmark. They were too busy going around to villages, cities and towns, murdering the men and raping their women. So that didn’t leave them with too much time to troll the internet, when they were busy prostituting women under the guise of muta.
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Sam Shamoun
1. Nabeel Quraish was a Qadiani, just like Mormon in Christianity and he knew that.
2. Ahmadis never joined isis. No single Ahmadi ever joined isis.
3. Ahmadis (Qadianis) believed in a man called Ghulam Ahmed to be Jesus in his second coming.
Why did
-Nabeel Quraish lied that he would have joined isis when no Ahmadi has ever joined isis. Can he prove an Ahmadi joining isis?
-Nabeel Quraish lied and not tell the truth about his formt er religion which is really a Qadiani. Is it not Christ’s example to tell the truth about what you were formally known to be to audience who want to know and learn about you(Nabeel) than tell lies about were you did not belong? to get cash from Christians?
-If all Muslims are bad and Qadianis are Muslims as Nabeel said, why did he not report his Qadiani families to the FBI?
It is a sin to use Christ’s name to lie as Nabeel is doing to get cash from evangelical Christians like how Ergun Carner, Walid Shoebat, etc. are doi ng.
Sam, your stomach that is double the size of two pregnant women worth treating by your Lord Jesus Christ, but it was not healed and you continue to suffer. You will suffer from this calamity till the day of judgement where you be judged for your lies and put into hell fire.
You still have time to repent. It is wise for you to repent.
Thanks.
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Shaman is inhabited by a spirit
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Shamoun, you’re still an idiot.
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Sam should be very careful with regards to his behaviour after all, or else come Christmas he may wake up with only coal in his stocking……again
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Kmark I checked and saw that idiot also refers to a person that lacks certain skills. In light of this, what do you say if someone who lacks the ability to read and write, one who is illiterate? And doesn’t tradition say your prophet was illiterate? Now what was that about me being an idiot? 😉
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shaman is probably after a good spanking by father christmas
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Are you guys actually admitting that you cannot be a muslim and a pacifist? That you cannot be a muslim unless you accept the doctrine of violent jihad? Muslims who reject jihad are not muslims? It sounds like this is exactly what you are trying to say.
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If a pacifist is some one who on principle rejects all violent acts (even in self defence) then I cannot see how that is faithful to the Quran and Sunnah.
The Muslim view of war is remarkably similar to the Christian just war theory. War can only be waged in certain strictly defined circumstances eg non-combatants must not be harmed, the war must be proportionate and just etc.
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“Kmark I checked and saw that idiot also refers to a person that lacks certain skills.”
Then all the more reason to call you an idiot. I mean, after all, your highest level of education is a GED and you’re not even a prophet. I have a Master’s degree from a world top 100 university and I am also working towards a PhD. Since my education is so much superior to yours and educated people are far more likely to be right in their judgments, then when I say you are an absolute sex-obsessed troll, my judgment is far more likely to be right than anything coming out of your ugly ass mouth.
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Deep joy. Once again Sam manages to drag the whole conversation into the gutter.
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@Intellect
Good question, the focus should remain on Nabeel. Time and time again we see folk’s honesty questioned and the issue is just swept under the rug and there’s no closure. I would like to see Nabeel answer this (I know White would too).
In my previous comment to you which did not go through I did suggest I believe that Nabeel did not initially go into ministry work for the reason of money. However, now that he’s on the speaking circuit he knows he does not have the pulling power of a Ravi, Joel Osteen or John Maarthur as of yet. At the same time he knows what his audience are after, an emotive back story. He’s seen how no marks like Walid Shoebat and Kamal Saleem rose to prominence through their elaborate and emotive back stories (which I assume most thinking people question). Nabeel, lacks charisma, the clout of a seasoned Christian speaker such as Ravi and the back story. Thus, for now he seems to be stretching his backstory because he knows that’s something his audience are thirstty to hear stuff like Walid Shoebat’s fantasies. He knows his actual story would be seen as underwhelming and uninteresting – a college kid from a little known group called Ahmadiya converted to Trinitarian Christianity after making a Christian friend.
For this reason I genuinely believe within the next 5 years there will be people on the Christian evangelical speaking and book-selling circuit claiming to e ex-ISIS members, why? Because it’s what the American Christian audiences want to hear – supply and demand. Whoever supplies that story will become a millionaire virtually overnight.
Questiniong people like Nabeel and Walid is just good practice for when they pull that ‘ex-ISIS member’ out. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pat Robertson is working with that guy right now. As Muslims we need to know how to question these folk to show thinking Christians they are being conned.
@Kmark, you sound like James White – White called Shamoun an idiot too but apparently he did it in private communication.
@Shamoun
This is a post about Nabeel Qureshi. I find it interesting that you claim you have no problems with him yet you refuse to defend his honesty. Paul has clearly accused him of not telling the truth – that’s to say he called him a liar. You have not once even tried to counter this assertion. It seems plainly obvious why…you cannot. So why not admit he’s dishonest? You’re worried after getting a rap on the knuckles from White that you will get into further bother with those higher up than you on the Apologetics-Islamophobia food chain.
One of my buddies at uni used to say, better live one day as a lion than a 1000 as a…
Anyways Sam, you made the lie of rape again. Stop, nowhere did Prophet Muhammad instruct rape.However, I do believe you believe Jesus taught the killing and taking of women:
17″Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. 18″But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.…[Numbers 31]
As for ‘minors’, errrm you forgot you are on record saying the age of consent in the Bible is puberty. I have the quote on my blog. So you believe Jesus allowed sex with ‘minors’ (somebody who is 13 is a ‘minor’ according to the law in America). You just criticised the Trinitarian view of Jesus as Trinitarians believe Jesus taught these things.
Again, I know you’ve been ticked off by White and you’re coming after me to try and present a tough exterior while pinning the blame for you attacking White on MBC and I’ve moved on. I’m not interested. The thinking Christian saw your true nature. One of which was cowardly – you bottled it when White hinted he would go after you. I stood up to him. The thinking Christian will see that.
I reiterate, it’s a thread about Nabeel Qureshi. Have you got any thoughts?
Did Nabeel stretch the truth? Was he dishonest?
Is an Ahmadiya a Muslim in your view? Jay Smith does not believe so. If you do believe so, does that mean Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are Christians in your view?
Why do you think your co-religionists are so hungry for stories of ex-terrorists becoming Christians?
PS Give me your email and I will email you so we can keep this domestic off an important blog about Nabeel – Nabeel and/or RZIM needs to respond.
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Interestingly enough, I see the discussion is on the Just War concept in Christianity – the Archbishop of Canterbury recently stated in the ‘House of Lords’ that the decision to bomb Syria was part of the Just War concept.
I have this quote handy from John Macarthur ( a big fish in the American evangelical community) which I used in my review of Jay Smith’s debate with Yusuf Ismail:
Some believe no war is justifiable (a position called pacifism). Others believe Christians must submit to their government and agree to fight in any war it engages in (a viewpoint known as activism). But the majority of Christians hold the view that believers may support or join in defensive wars against evil aggressors–a position known as the just war theory.
We identify ourselves with the third approach–the just war theory.
—-
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More for Jahiladdin.
Once more, we must reiterate the fact that none of the biblical prophets ever thought of jumping off a cliff after receiving inspiration. Nor did Gabriel strike dread and terror into the hearts of the servants of God, but actually comforted and strengthened them:
“When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought for the meaning. Then there before me stood one who had the appearance of a man. I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, ‘Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.’ So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was afraid and fell upon my face; but he said to me, ‘Understand, son of man, that the vision deals with the time of the end.’ Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep with my face toward the ground. But he touched me and set me upright.” Daniel 8:15-18
“Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. When Zechariah saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said to him, ‘Do not fear, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. He will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. And he will go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.’ Zechariah said to the angel, ‘How shall I know this? For I am an old man and my wife well advanced in years.’ The angel answered him, ‘I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God. And I was sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news.’” Luke 1:11-19
“In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. The angel came to her and said, ‘Greetings, you who are highly favored. The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women.’ When she saw him, she was troubled by his words, and considered in her mind what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Listen, you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son and shall call His name JESUS. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest. And the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. And of His kingdom there will be no end.’ Then Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I do not know a man?’ The angel answered her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you. Therefore the Holy One who will be born will be called the Son of God.’” Luke 1:26-35
This is totally unlike Muhammad’s “Gabriel” who struck fear and terror into Muhammad’s heart, causing him to tremble, foam and sweat profusely.
A further indication of the occultic nature of Muhammad’s revelations is seen by the following example from al-Waqidi who wrote that, “Muhammad had such a repugnance to the form of the cross that he broke everything brought into his house with that figure upon it.” (Ibid., p. 63; italic emphasis ours)
Now let us see who the real source of Muhammad’s “revelations” happens to be by comparing his experiences with that of the following demoniac:
“When He came to His other disciples, He saw a great crowd around them, and the scribes disputing with them. Immediately when all the people saw Him, they were greatly amazed, and running to Him, greeted Him. He asked the scribes, ‘What are you debating with them?’ One in the crowd answered, ‘Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. Wherever it takes hold on him, it dashes him to the ground. AND HE FOAMS AT THE MOUTH and gnashes with his teeth and becomes rigid. And I told Your disciples so that they would cast it out, but they could not.’ He answered, ‘O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me.’ So they brought the boy to Him. When he saw Him, immediately the spirit dashed him, AND HE FELL ON THE GROUND AND WALLOWED, FOAMING AT THE MOUTH. He asked his father, ‘How long has it been since it came to him?’ He said, ‘From childhood. Often it has thrown him into the fire and into the water to kill him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.’ Jesus said, ‘If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.’ Immediately the father of the child cried out with tears, ‘Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief!’ When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked THE FOUL SPIRIT, saying to it, ‘You mute and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him, and enter him no more.’ The spirit cried out AND CONVULSED HIM GREATLY. But it came out of him, and he was as dead, so that many said, ‘He is dead.’ But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. When He had entered the house, His disciples asked Him privately, ‘Why could we not cast it out?’ He said to them, ‘This kind cannot come out except by prayer and fasting.’” Mark 7:14-29
This should give you a clear idea of the source of Muhammad’s “inspiration”.
Now what was that about being inhabited by spirits? 😉
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@Sam
I’ve told you before about your ridiculous attacks on Prophet Muhammad based on the claim of illiteracy. As demonstrated in this video by Bart Ehrman (which rebuked you specifically/0 most people in the ancient world were unlettered – the majority of Jesus’ companions would thus be considered so. So you are insulting the companions of Jesus pbuh here. THINK.
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YahyaSlime, let’s see if Muhammad didn’t rape women by your willingness to answer the following question.
Would your wife be okay with Muhammad and his jihadis coming to your dwelling place, taking her as her captive, having sex with her, and your daughters, while you are still alive, and then selling them off as chattel once they are done using them as sex objects? Yes or No?
And I have already refuted the boldfaced lie about there being no biblical verses concerning the appropriate age of marriage. Therefore, one you man up to debate me on ABN we will see how far you get with that lie, and your perversion of Numbers 31:17-18. I can see why you twist the Bible the way you do, since you read it through your Quranic colored lenses. This is why you think the Bible is as filthy and pornographic as your unholy book of filth, porn and deceit.
And as far as Nabeel is concerned, make sure you watch my FB as the good little jihadi troll that you are to see what I have to say about this dear brother.
Now here is my email so we can get your slaugther underway: samshmn@yahoo.com
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*should be a video of Bart Ehrman not by
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YahyaSlime at it again. I know that you seek to be illiterate in order to emulate the sunna of your prophet, which is why you have no care for context. I was responding to your fellow stone worshiper Kmart who called me an idiot. Therefore, if I am an idiot then what do you do with a man whom you Muhammadans praise and worship as an illiterate prophet?
Now stop the straw man and red herrings since I will utterly embarrass you in our debate every time you choose to go this route.
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YahyaSlime, now that you got my email LET’S GET OUR DEBATE UNDERWAY since I don’t have time to waste here anymore, embarrassing you and your fellow stone worshiping idolaters.
EMAIL ME A.S.A.P. so I can cc ABN to get your humiliation underway.
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Sam you have made numerous comments on this blog which mainly comprised of attacks on myself and Kmark.
The blog is about NABEEL QURESHI not being up front. You, despite pretty much living on this thread for the last 12 hours, have not even bothered to muster a defence of Nabeel, why? PLEASE answer and give us some comments on this matter? If you’re unwilling to defend his honesty either admit it or tell him to come here and comment on this so we can have some closure.
As for comments of people coming and killing men and taking women, you have already discussed this yourself. You have no issue with it as you believe Jesus taught this. We’ve got you on video
THINK. Please stop being a troll and stop derailing the thread. Did Nabeel or Wood send you here to detract from the subject of the post? White is said to have called you an idiot in private communication, guess they didn’t squash you because they think you’re a useful one. Stop taking orders from others and stop doing other people’s bidding – if that’s the case. Have some self-respect fella.
I will email you and we can have a MATURE discussion and come to some understanding because this feud is ridiculous. PLEASE can you discuss Nabeel Qureshi now. I think Paul made a very useful pose…show it some respect by engaging with the subject at the very least
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Poor Sam can’t live with the fact that he is an ueducated piece of shit.
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Kmart, there you go reciting Quran again, and condemning Muhammad with your foul, abusive, cowardly mouth. Now if I am a piece of crap because I am uneducated then what does this Muhammad you you pagans brag was an undeducated, illiterate nomad Arab?
And since you are so educated, why don’t you man up and debate me so everyone can see how well you do defending your false prophet? But you and I both know that you know better than to ever debate me on the filth of your deen. Cowards like you can only act tough when they are trolling on comments sections.
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YahyaSlime, chill out fella, step away from kissing the black stone and take a deep breath. You are not going to email for a “MATURE” email exchange. You are emailing me FOR THE PURPOSE of setting up the debate that you agreed to do with me. Therefore, once you email me I will then cc ABN to get your humiliation set up for all to see.
Until then, I bid you all a farewell.
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Sam the purpose of this post was with regards to Nabeels claim to be an ex-Muslim, which his critics would say is undermined both because he was a member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Movement which is considered by the vast majority of Islamic scholars to be Un-Islamic.
Secondly, Nabeel has recently stated in his video response to the horrific attacks that took place in Paris recently that the theology of violent extremism that groups like Daesh both believe and act upon is the one true interpretation of Islam as it was believed and practised by Muhammad and the Sahaba. The issue here is that considering what Nabeel has said earlier about that being Ahmadi does not disqualify one from being a Muslim on the basis that Ahmadis believe in the 5 pillars of Islam and the articles of faith.
But Ahmadis would categorically reject what Daesh and other extremist groups believe and practise as opposed by to the religion of Islam, and if Nabeel believed this as well (which he has explicitly stated in the affirmative when he has communicated his testimony), how could Nabeel have been a true Muslim in the first place?
Has he not disqualified himself from the title of an ex-Muslim if it is inherent and clear from a consistent reading of the most authoritative Islamic sources that one should advocate and administer violence on non-Muslims?
Sam a question for you personally, no more jokes from myself just an honest question. If as you have presented on this blog is a legitimate expression of the teachings and practices of Muhammad then would you not as well have to admit that Nabeel was not a true Muslim either? Or would you say like Dr White has done for a very long time now that the more appropriate response is that the sources themselves contradict each other to such an extent that there is no one true interpretation that can be delivered from reading the Qu’ran, Hadith, Sira, and Tafseer?
But if that is true can there ever be such a thing as a true Muslim in the first place? and if so how would we define this such as to include Nabeel? The reason to me why these discussions so often devolve into nonesense is because neither side seemingly have anything with which to share a common ground which as Timothy Keller once wrote was absolutely necessary for a respectful and fruitful conversation?
Take care Sam and God bless
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Interesting that you should reference Timothy Keller..
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Sam Shamoun
Nabeel Quraish has lied, big time to collect some money from Christians like Ergun Carner and Walid Shoebat etc. lied for money, fame, and Christian positions.
Why and how does Nabeel Quaish’s lies deserved repentance and apology.
1. Nabeel as a Qadiani (Ahmedi) cannot join isis as he(Nabeel) claimed he could have joined isis as a Qadiani because he(Nabeel) would have been killed instantly by telling isis he is an Ahmedi. If Nabeel does not know this, then he is a fool and does not worth listening to by Christians and James White as a smart guy managed to distance himself from such cowardly act and lies from Nabeel Quraish.
2. Is Nabeel going to lie to isis that he is not Ahmedi? In that case it is a lie before joining them? Is he going to lie that he is a Muslim before joining them? or converting to Islam before joining them?
3. Why not tell your(Nabeel) Christian audience the truth about your former religion exactly, which is Qadiani, so that they will know who you really were for their own judgement? but to lie that you are an ex-Muslim?
4. Your Qadiani cannot join isis and they will be executed instantly by realizing they are Qadianis but you lied Nabeel by saying you would have joined isis. You could not have joined isis.
5. It is not only 5 pillars that makes one a Muslim but to believe Prophet Mohammed is the last messenger and prophet of God, but Qadianis believe Ghulam Ahmed is the last prophet and is Jesus incarnate. You are not a Muslim sir. But explain the truth about Ahmedis to your Christian audience for them to judge but not tell lies that you were “ex-Muslim”.
Nabeel’s isis recruiting process.
Nabeel to isis commander: Commander, My name is Nabeel and I want to join you and I am a Qadiani
isis commander: What? Did I hear you right? you mean you are a Qadiani?
Nabeel: Yes I am a Qadiani and I believe in Ghulam Ahmed is the incarnated Jesus.
isis commander: You must be Joking, are you sure? are you serious?
Nabeel: I swear I am a Qadiani
isis commander: Swear again and it is a serious matter
Nabeel: I swear 3 times I am a Qadiani
isis commander: Then you are fool not to know that you cannot join isis as a Qadiani. Nabeel Quraish knows the rest of his fate and the rest would have been history if he had dared joined isis as a Qadiani.
Christians wake up. As much as I support your eager to see Muslims converting to Christianity, be careful to scrutinize any such person and have background checks before putting your money or cash in him(ex-Muslims)
It is on record most of them like Ergun Carner, Aayan Ali Hirsi, Walid Shoebad etc. and now Nabeel Quraish are telling you lies to extort money from you and you will not gain any Islamic convert from them.
How many Muslims did Nabeel converted to Christianity? Zero. He could even convert his Qadianit family to Christianity, how can he covert Muslims to Christianity?
Thanks.
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Yahya Snow
May Allah reward you, muslimbychoice, Paul Williams, Dr. James White and all who contributed to continue to make a lot of videos exposing these coward liars who will lie and extort money from Christians by misrepresenting Islam.
We disagree with each other on certain issues as Muslims but we should not get carried away and divide but unite with Christians to continue to dialogue but to unite against any liar be him a Muslim or a Christian.
I do not like Dr. James White stance on Islam, but he begins to sound honest in some sense and brother Patrice sent me a link to his site and even though he is pretty much still a critic of Islam but has stopped short of being an Islamophobe and he is against islamophobe and distortions of scriptures on both sides.
Thanks.
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Shamoun: Now if I am a piece of crap because I am uneducated then what does this Muhammad you you pagans brag was an undeducated, illiterate nomad Arab?
Of course, Muhammad (saw) was an exception. He was, after all, a Prophet. He even made it to number one in the list of world’s greatest men by Michael Hart. Despite being illiterate, he produced the world’s first Arabic book which became the standard of the Arabic language. I could say more but the point is clear. You are an ueducated piece of shit who no one takes seriously except for other pieces of shit.
Shamoun: And since you are so educated, why don’t you man up and debate me so everyone can see how well you do defending your false prophet?
Wether I debate you or not, it doesn’ change the fact that you are a vile, uneducated, ugly ass piece of shit.
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Kmak
You better debate Dr. James White, who though still a critic of Islam but has graduated from the lies and uneducated lies about Islam from David Wood, Sam Shamoun, Nabeel Quraish, Aayan Ali Hirsi, Ergun Carner etc.
They do not know Arabic, how can they interpret the Quran? To bypass scholars like Tim Winter, Tim Humble, Mark Hanson, Jonathan Brown, Jefferey Liang, Jerald Dirks, Khalid Yasin, Lawrence Brown, Ingrid Matson etc. and many more who speak Arabic fluently just because of Islam and to know Islam very well.
Can David Wood speak Arabic? No. How dare he interpret the Quran? He can do that lies to Christians because he and all their apologetics do not know Arabic, tafsir, Seerah, fiq, the science of Hadith etc. that Islamic scholars spend years and travelling from place to place to learn.
Hamza Yusuf(Mark Hanson) had to travel to Africa, Middle East, Europe, Americas from place to place and from scholars to scholars to learn Islam for somebody like Sam Shamoun who does not even have a certificate in his own Christian religion let alone any certificate in Islam to tell us what Islam is.
Do not waste your time because Nabeel Quraish is damn blast liar and that is what we are dealing with right now and he(Nabeel) needs to repent and apologize for his lies.
Listen to who Islamic scholar is
But not Nabeel Quraish, Sam, David Wood, etc. who do not know Arabic and any module of Islam to tell us what Islam is except lies to get money from Christians.
Thanks.
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So Paul Williams was a “real Christian” who just happened to be a openly gay homosexual involved in a love affair with another MAN. Who is now an openly homosexual man who now lives with that same man and shares the same dog.
“Yup you went out from us to prove you where not one of us.”
Now back to Nabeel, still smarting from your first debate with him I see.
So you assume that if Nabeel would have stayed a devout Muslim he would not have eventually left the the heretical sect of Ahmadianism as others have done, and become a good Sunni Muslim giving his biya to the Caliph like all good sunni Muslims should do.
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Robert Wells
You said;
So you assume that if Nabeel would have stayed a devout Muslim he would not havnae eventually left the the heretical sect of Ahmadianism as others have done, and become a good Sunni Muslim giving his biya to the Caliph like all good sunni Muslims should do.
I say;
Nabeel did not tell his Christian audience that he belongs to the heretical sect of Ahmedianism, but he lied to them that if he stayed as a Muslim he would have joined isis. He did not say anything about leaving any sect but said he would have joined isis. Do not put words in Nabeels Mouth. That is why he must clarify his exact religion of Qadiani to his audience.
We are all not perfect. Christian pastors like Eddie Lee Long, Jimmy Swaggart, etc. Christian Fathers etc. are worse sex offenders and yet still they are Christians.
Paul Williams is not living under caliphate and so he is not perfect like all of us but I know is a devo ut Muslim just like me. His private matters is between him and his God and so are all of us.
We did advice that it is un Islamic for two lovers to stay private and that is what we can do.
Nabeel Quraish did lie and had multiple lies to respectful Christian audience wanting to listen truth from him(Nabeel) but he lied and lied and lied and continue to lie and his Lord Jesus Christ will punish him for that. We need apology from him and he must retract the stamen of Joining isis.
He as Ahmadi could not have joined isis as he lied. He would have been killed instantly. If Nabeel does not know this then he is fool. It is no secret. If he know that, then he lied.
That is the topic here and not Paul Williams which we have dealt with long time and over and over.
Thanks.
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Intellect thank you for defending Nabeel and confirming that Nabeel did not lie
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“So Paul Williams was a “real Christian” who just happened to be a openly gay homosexual involved in a love affair with another MAN. Who is now an openly homosexual man who now lives with that same man and shares the same dog.”
They share the same Dog?!!!! What kind of madness is this????????
Your right Bobby my lad this is truly something from the pit of hell.
Bobby the world you live in must be so comforting for you, one where there is no complexity or need to use the ol’ noggin if you know what i mean (wink, wink)
In a world in which anything and everything can and must be either black or white.
“So you assume that if Nabeel would have stayed a devout Muslim he would not have eventually left the the heretical sect of Ahmadianism as others have done, and become a good Sunni Muslim giving his biya to the Caliph like all good sunni Muslims should do.”
No Bobby you seem (as usual) to be missing the point. According to the vast majority of Islamic scholars and Muslims alike Nabeel was never a Muslim to begin with due to him being a member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community one which denies that Muhammad was the final Prophet and that their founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was another Prophet, the second coming of Christ, and the Madhi as well. If anything Nabeel would have been closer to Shia rather than Sunni. Bobby and with regards to whether or not Nabeel would have at some point left Ahmadi and become Sunni or whatever else, don’t you think at this point that would be a rather useless point to pontificate on, me ol mucker?
Bobby your thinly veiled reference to Baghdadis “Caliphate” as one that Nabeel should if he is truly a Muslim give allegience to is exactly the point the folks on the blog are trying to make. Because once again for the last time Bobby IF THAT WAS TRUE THEN NABEEL WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A TRUE MUSLIM BECAUSE ONE OF THE CORE BELIEFS OF AHMADIYYA IS NON VIOLENCE. (and neither is really anybody else if your logic is spot on, it isn’t but lets go with it for the sake of the argument). Bobby you would have to denounce his testimony.
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Hahaahhaha the same old frustrated lying muslim culprits who cannot, have not and will not EVER match the intelligence, honour, integrity morals and dignity of Dr, Nabeel Qureshi. He simply is an outstanding man surrounded by jealous deceiving miscreants. Yaya, Paul Nuff Said hahahahahah
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Fillipa, you clearly did not read my article above. Read the conclusion:
‘If Nabeel had remained a Qadiani ‘Muslim’ not in a million years would he have joined ISIS. His sect’s theology and ethics are strictly pacifist and he would have utterly rejected ‘Jihad’ on principle. Nabeel covers over this inconvenient truth by creating a new truth – that is really a lie.’
So where is the so-called “honour, integrity morals and dignity of Dr, Nabeel Qureshi”?
In serious doubt.
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Fillipa
You said;
Hahaahhaha the same old frustrated lying muslim culprits who cannot, have not and will not EVER match the intelligence, honour, integrity morals and dignity of Dr, Nabeel Qureshi. He simply is an outstanding man surrounded by jealous deceiving miscreants. Yaya, Paul Nuff Said hahahahahahet
I say;
Nabeel can not speak Arabic to interpret the Quran. How can he be intelligent in Islam? All intelligent Quran interpreters speak fluent Arabic. Nabeel lied that he can join isis as a Qadiani. If he does not know that is not possible and he will be killed then he is fool because it is clear for him to know that. If he knew he cannot join isis but lied to his Christian audience, then he must apologize, repent and retract the statement.
He remains a liar by saying he was a Muslim and that he would have joined isis. That is a lie and that is not the truth Jesus Christ want his follower to do. It is impossible to join isis as a Qadiani and Qadianis are not Muslims.
Thanks.
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Robert Wells
You said;
Intellect thank you for defending Nabeel and confirming that Nabeel did not lie
I say;
You are refusing to accept the double lies of Nabeel Quraish in two videos.
In the first video, Nabeel clearly stated his former religion of Islam practice and teach terrorism. And the prophet teach terrorism. That is what Nabeel clearly said.
You Robert referred me to Dr. James White’s site. Apparently Dr. White has read about Ahmedia and knows they are non violent and do not practice terrorism and that is where Nabeel belongs, so his(Nabeel’s) former religion could not have been violent.
So it is clearly a big lie for Nabeel to claim his former religion was Islam and teaches violent. He could have said “Islam teaches violence”. Nabeel did not say this, but said “his former religion teaches violence and the followers are violent because of their prophets.
If Ahmedians are Muslims and all Muslims are violent as he claims, the he must report his families who remain Ahmedians to the FBI.
In video number 2 above Nabeel also claimed, if he had stayed in his former religion Islam he would have joined isis. His former religion was Qadiani and is impossible to join isis so he lied.
He could have clarified to his Christian audience that, before joining isis, he must convert from his former religion of Qadiani otherwise he would be killed by isis when they know his former religion.
Nabeel’s former religion of Qadiani is non violent, so it is a great disservice to the Ahmedia community for one of them who left their religion to brand all of them as violent and learning violence from their prophets. He owes Christians, Muslims and Ahmedians an apology for lying to the 3 religions to extort money from Christians.
Thanks.
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If you read Nabeel’s book, and watch his other videos, he admits he was Ahmadiyye (what you all and most other Muslims call Qadiani – the city that the founder of the Ahmadiyee movement was from in India) points out that it was after he studied the Qur’an and Hadith more deeply that he realized things in historical and original sources of Islam that troubled him. [that he did not know and was not taught as a Ahmadi] (like Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha troubled Nabeel, and the Jihad/fighting stuff, and how Muhammad got his adopted son Zayid’s wife Zanaib Bint Jahsh, and like the stuff about the women captive of war that one is free to have sex with – “whom your right hand possesses”. Even scholar Yasir Qadi admitted this was true in a lecture on You Tube, but he said it was temporary, and they got their freedom eventually, etc. (Hard to justify IMO) David Wood showed him that stuff ( I think), (or did Nabeel find it and show it to David ?) and Nabeel’s understanding was that even Ahmadiye’s were not following true original Islam.
So, I think you are right that if Nabeel stayed an Ahmadi / Qadiani, he would not join ISIS. But what he is saying is that he has since discovered what, in his opinion, real historical and doctrinal and original Islam did; he is saying that – at bare minimum, there are texts in the Qur’an and Hadith and Sira and Tarikh and Tafsirs that can be put together (however wrong that may be according to other Islamic scholars) in such a way as to justify what they do.
Nabeel has a good video explaining his Ahmadiye background and his argumentation that Ahmadis / Qadianis are Muslims. (in his opinion, he says they did everything other Muslims do and believe, they just disagree about the future coming of the Al Masih and Al Mehdi, etc. and Jihad, and their system of Fiq / Jurisprudence is different, etc.
I realize that Sunnis and Shias don’t think that Ahmadiyye / Qadiani are true Muslims, ok.
But what Nabeel points out that except for the stuff about
1. the 2nd coming of the Messiah and Mehdi (they think Mirza Ghulam Ahmad fulfilled the Messiah and Mehdi metaphorically, etc.), and
2. as far as I can tell, they think physical Qatal / fighting/ Jihad / Harb (War to conquer and set up the Sharia and Caliphate, etc. is wrong; or was temporary for early centuries – Ahmadis don’t follow that stuff), and
3. they have a different system of Fiq (Jurisprudence) – except for those 3 big issues; Ahmadis still believe and practice pretty much everything that Sunnis and Shias do (the things the hold in common). They call their current leader a “Caliph”, but they don’t have territory or a political state, etc.
The Ahmadyis doctrine of Towhid is still the same as Sunnis.
But to compare them as a heresy in the same way as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are heretical cults to Christianity is not exactly parallel, since in Mormonism, there are millions of gods in the universe, and each faithful Mormon male will evolve into a god and have many women on their own planet and procreate by marriage and sex. Their doctrine of God in Mormonism is more pagan and polytheistic than even Greek Mythology. The are not Monotheists.
Also, the Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ and the Trinity and the personality and Deity of the Holy Spirit and they deny Jesus rose physically from the dead. (JWs say it was a spiritual resurrection)
The differences between Mormons and JWs with orthodox Christianity are major, whereas, it seems to me the differences between Sunnis and Ahmadis are minor, comparatively. The differences don’t effect the doctrine of God or major doctrines.
So, I don’t think it is fair to say that Nabeel is lying; but he could do a better job of explaining what he means – that he now thinks that the terrorism of some Muslims is more close to original or pure Islam, than his former Muslim faith of Ahmadiyyeh.
By the way, I agree more with Dr. James White and his emphasis on evangelism and apologetics and seeking to understand Muslims as how they themselves define themselves. (Evangelism, apologetics, and godly attitudes are more important than politics and military issues; and the Church is not the government and the New Testament NEVER gives military authority to the church.) There is no more Biblical Israel Theocracy as it was in the OT era. God did away with it in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple and the whole NT testifies to this.
The modern Islamic terrorism stuff is a disagreement within the house of Islam on how to either “take action” and get back to original Islam (Salafi, returning to the era of the rightly guided Caliphs, etc.), or to wait for Allah to restore the Ummah to the glory it had in the salaf period. Even many Salafi’s do not agree with “taking action” like Al Qaedah, and Boko Haram and ISIS type stuff, etc.
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Ken I appreciate your comments but Nabeel and Wood aim to portray Islam in the most negative way possible. They are not looking for a balanced and objective understanding. Why is this? Because their brand of fundamentalist religion is very hostile to other religions and seeks at all costs to demonise them, above all Islam.
This is very sad. The same demonisation of evangelical Christianity can easily be done. The bible’s support for slavery; the portrayal of God as a genocidal killer; its teaching about women; the significant error concerning the imminent end of the world etc, Nabeel and Wood to my knowledge fail to address these problems.
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Intellect wrote…
“He as Ahmadi could not have joined isis as he lied. ”
My response:
Exactly Nabeel no where says “If I would have remained an Ahmadi” does he. So there for he did not lie, since he would have had to convert to Sunni Islam in order to give his Biya to your Caliph.
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Robert Wells
You said;
Intellect wrote…
“He as Ahmadi could not have joined isis as he lied. ”
My response:
Exactly Nabeel no where says “If I would have remained an Ahmadi” does he. So there for he did not lie, since he would have had to convert to Sunni Islam in order to give his Biya to your Caliph.
I say;
Robert. Watch the video below. Nabeel claims “My own religion” to refer to terrorists and violent. Ahmadians are not violent, so he lied.
The video post above he said if he remained following Mohammed. He did not talk of converting. HE SAID IF STILL BELEIVED, HE SAID IF I STILL BELIEVED, HE SAID IF I STILL BELEIVED IN MOHAMMED, I would have gone to Syria to join isis.
He lied to believe an Ahamadi can join isis. It is a big lie and no defence can undo it except apology to the Ahmadiyya movement who are non violent for one of them to brand them as all violent because they follow Mohammed.
Thanks.
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He is not lying; rather, in his opinion, Sunni / Salafi and other terrorism (Al Qaeda / ISIS) forms of Islam are closer to original and pure Islam, and use texts of Islamic sources – in his opinion. He is saying he realized this later, after studying it more. He is not saying that if he stayed a Ahmadiye, he would go join the ISIS, etc.
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Ken Temple
You said;
So, I don’t think it is fair to say that Nabeel is lying; but he could do a better job of explaining what he means – that he now thinks that the terrorism of some Muslims is more close to original or pure Islam, than his former Muslim faith of Ahmadiyyeh.
I say;
Nabeel will continue to be a liar if he does not say he is an “ex-Ahmadi” to his audience just like how “ex-Mormon must not claim to be “ex-Christian” to his audience.
I as a Muslim will find it as a lie for an “ex-Mormon” claiming to be an “ex-Christian” and that the Planned Parenthood shooter or the killing of a Doctor by Christians in his Church worshiping because he works at Planned Parenthood clinic is a terrorist act and violent that his Christian religion teaches.
Mormons like Warren Jeff are polygamous, so an “ex-Mormon” cannot say he is an “ex-Christian”. Ken, you brought your own similarities and differences between Mormons, Christian, Ahmadis and Muslims. You know what? I and no Muslim will buy and accept your explanation to your own whims and caprice. Stop doing that to us and Dr. James White has warned the types of you Christians who will accuse Islam of violence in their religion but when confronted with the worse violence in Christianity you defend it in your own way expecting Muslims believe.
I know Dr. White is your mentor so follow his advice and understand anything Christians accuse Muslims there are worse of those in Christianity and so if someone is going to accuse Islam of violence, certainly not Christians.
As for Nabeel he lied and he must apologise to his former Qadiani faith for calling them all terrorists and also lying he was a Muslim and to a Christian ignorant audience.
Dr. James White is not an ignorant Christian and he clearly distinguished himself from the mess but still remains a critic of Islam. God Dr. James R. White we are behind you.
Thanks.
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The bible’s support for slavery; the portrayal of God as a genocidal killer; its teaching about women; the significant error concerning the imminent end of the world
“slavery” in OT was indentured servitude, in cases of poverty, left for poverty as result of war or famine, a person could voluntarily go and promise to serve for food and shelter, etc. Very similar to Mexicans coming to America and working hard in the lower jobs – picking fruit, construction, etc. in order to strive towards a higher level of economic stability.
The NT emphasized being righteous and pious, and suffering under hardship, if one comes to faith in Christ, while they were a Roman or Greek slave. The NT does not encourage rebellion or fighting or armed resistance, etc. against the masters or slave owners or government.
men and women are equal, but have different roles – Genesis chapters 1-2, Colossians 3:10-11; Galatians 3:28; I Peter 3:7.
The NT did not make an error about the 2nd coming – it shows that there was one near fulfillment – the events of 70 AD, and a far fulfillment (still future to us) – the 2nd coming of Christ.
God gave the Canaanite and Amorite and other pagan tribes in the promised land (and Amalakites by extension later) pagans 430 years to repent before ordering the Jews to take the promised land. Genesis 15:13-18
Then the Lord said to Abram, “Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. 16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
17 When the sun had gone down and it was dark, behold, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. 18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, 19 the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.”
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correction
Go Dr. White, we are behind you.
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Intellect,
I agree with Dr. White on this stuff.
And I also think he would agree with me on the differences between Mormons vs. Christianity and the differences between Ahmadi vs. Sunni orthodoxy.
Did you understand this?
The Ahmadyis doctrine of Towhid is still the same as Sunnis.
But to compare them as a heresy in the same way as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are heretical cults to Christianity is not exactly parallel, since in Mormonism, there are millions of gods in the universe, and each faithful Mormon male will evolve into a god and have many women on their own planet and procreate by marriage and sex. Their doctrine of God in Mormonism is more pagan and polytheistic than even Greek Mythology. The are not Monotheists.
Also, the Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ and the Trinity and the personality and Deity of the Holy Spirit and they deny Jesus rose physically from the dead. (JWs say it was a spiritual resurrection)
The differences between Mormons and JWs with orthodox Christianity are major, whereas, it seems to me the differences between Sunnis and Ahmadis are minor, comparatively. The differences don’t effect the doctrine of God or major doctrines.
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There are only basically 3 differences of Ahmadis vs. Sunnis :
But what Nabeel points out that except for the stuff about
1. the 2nd coming of the Messiah and Mehdi (they think Mirza Ghulam Ahmad fulfilled the Messiah and Mehdi metaphorically, etc.), and
2. as far as I can tell, they think physical Qatal / fighting/ Jihad / Harb (War to conquer and set up the Sharia and Caliphate, etc. is wrong; or was temporary for early centuries – Ahmadis don’t follow that stuff), and
3. they have a different system of Fiq (Jurisprudence) – except for those 3 big issues; Ahmadis still believe and practice pretty much everything that Sunnis and Shias do (the things the hold in common). They call their current leader a “Caliph”, but they don’t have territory or a political state, etc.
They still hold to Towhid; and they still do the 5 pillars of deeds and believe the 6 pillars of belief.
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Ken Temple
You said;
He is not lying; rather, in his opinion, Sunni / Salafi and other terrorism (Al Qaeda / ISIS) forms of Islam are closer to original and pure Islam, and use texts of Islamic sources – in his opinion. He is saying he realized this later, after studying it more. He is not saying that if he stayed a Ahmadiye, he would go join the ISIS, etc.
I say;
Ken, don’t you understand “My own religion”? said by Nabeel Quraish? Do not put words on Nabeel’s mouth. Nabeel said his own religion.
Dr. Whites has warned you not to define our religion for us. I will quickly say crusades and the planned parenthood bombs and shooters including killing a Doctor worshiping in his Church by Christians is closer to original pure Christianity. and text of Christian sources say “kill women, children, animals and everything”. That is why Christians exterminated, annihilated Muslims and Jews and started to annihilate themselves. Catholics were beating to death in the USA as recently as the 20th century.
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
I said me and no Muslim will accept you similarities and differences between Mormom, Ahmadis, Christian and Muslims, to your whims and caprice so stop repeating them and stay on topic as your mentor Dr. White advises Christians to stop accusing Islam on what can be found in worse form in Christianity.
In fact Dr. White uses SHAME ON YOU to any Christian who will define violence the way you are doing here Ken. So Dr. White said shame of you Ken.
Stay on topic, and Nabeel said “My own religion” to mean his Qadiani religion is violent and he could have join isis and that is double lie.
Qadianis are non violent and cannot join isis so Nabeel lied to his ignorant Christian audience except Dr. James R. White your mentor who said shame on you to any Christian who wants to impose his will on Muslims like you are doing here.
Go Dr. White, we are behind you.
Thanks.
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I agree with Dr. White;
I am trying to help you understand the process of what Nabeel sincerely thinks about his old faith,
and what he later discovered by reading Hadith, etc. about one stream of interpretation of Sunni Islam. The fact that tens of thousands (maybe several million, if only 2% or 5% or 10 % of over one Billion Muslims, that is still a big number – several million) are following the extreme “take action” with Salafi type of Islam, shows that it is one interpretation among many Muslims.
Granted, Nabeel needs to clarify that; but it is not deliberately seeking to deceive, etc.
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he is not deliberately seeking to deceive, etc.
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Ken Temple
You said;
Granted, Nabeel needs to clarify that; but it is not deliberately seeking to deceive, etc.
You also said;
he is not deliberately seeking to deceive, etc.
I say;
Nabeel just like Ergun Carner, Walid Shoebat, Aayan Ali Hirsi, Irshad Manji and many, many more fake “ex-Muslims” are deliberately liars and lying to Christians to get rich.
Some Christians knew, this fake “ex-Muslims” are liars but will not call them out except Dr. James White who I did not like before but now beginning to like him from the bottom of my heart for telling the truth and being a good Christian.
Nabeel Quraish is deliberately lying to Christians because by saying “ex-Muslim” instead of “ex-Ahmadi” he will get more money from those Christians who erroneously thinks all “ex-Muslims” knew Islam and that is not true for Nabeel does not know Arabic and Quranic Arabic to translate Islam to anyone.
If he is sincerely working for Jesus Christ, Nabeel would have used much time working and preaching the gospels instead of lying as and “ex-Muslim” to get cash from Christians like Ergun Carner etc. are doing.
We have so many ex-Christians in Islam and they do not spent time saying they are “ex-Christians” to Muslims but they learn Arabic and attend Islamic institutions and from scholars to scholars world over to know Islam and to propagate Islam.
Examples are Jonathan Brown, Mark Hanson, Timothy Humble, Timothy Winter, Khalid Yasin, Hussein Yee and many, many more.
Muslims are smart, just saying you are “ex-Christian” will not earn you a dollar from Muslims. Ask Paul Williams and he will tell you no Muslim ever give him a dollar for saying he is an ex original Christian. He is doing his missionary work from his pocket and so are most Muslims but sometimes we donate or sadaqa for dawah.
Thanks.
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Aayan Hirshey Ali is an atheist, not a Christian.
Irshad Manji is a lesbian, not a Christian.
I agree that Ergun Caner and W. Shoebat are discredited.
Nabeel is not in the same boat.
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To be honest Ken, Nabeel’s behaviour gives some indications he is moving that direction. I hope for his sake he comes to his senses.
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Every argument Nabeel used against David Wood, while Wood was preaching the gospel to him, was Sunni type Ahmad Deedhat type arguments.
Read Nabeel’s book, he is not trying to deliberately deceive.
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perhaps deception is just part of his religious/psychological make up now. In other words he is self-deluded?
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Ken Temple
You said;
I agree with Dr. White;
I am trying to help you understand the process of what Nabeel sincerely thinks about his old faith,
and what he later discovered by reading Hadith, etc. about one stream of interpretation of Sunni Islam. The fact that tens of thousands (maybe several million, if only 2% or 5% or 10 % of over one Billion Muslims, that is still a big number – several million) are following the extreme “take action” with Salafi type of Islam, shows that it is one interpretation among many Muslims.
I say;
You are a friend of mine and now Dr. James White is becoming my mentor and so with all due respect you are not the one to help me understand Nabeel but Nabeel himself and Nabeel said “My own religion” to refer to terrorist and violence and his own Qadiani religion is never a violent religion and cannot join isis without being killed so he lied double lie and Dr. James White as a true Christian has washed his hands from such a lie to collect much money from Christians.
Wash your hands from such lies Mr. Ken otherwise we will add you to the lies of Nabeel Quraish a former Qadiani who is now dangerous to both Muslims, Qadianis and Christians by telling lies to all of them.
Thanks.
w
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We have so many ex-Christians in Islam and they do not spent time saying they are “ex-Christians” to Muslims but they learn Arabic and attend Islamic institutions and from scholars to scholars world over to know Islam and to propagate Islam.
Examples are Jonathan Brown, Mark Hanson, Timothy Humble, Timothy Winter, Khalid Yasin, Hussein Yee and many, many more.
Because they know they were not true Born-again Christians.
One thing you don’t seem to understand, and many Muslims don’t understand this, is that in the west, people can be in a general western “Christian” culture (USA, Europe, Australia, Canada, etc.), but NO one is a Christians unless they repent and believe and become born again by the Spirit of God. Baby baptism or going to church does not make you a Christian.
Whereas in Islam, one is a Muslim just by being born from Muslim parents and growing up in a Muslim culture; and they whisper the shehada in their ears after they are born.
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I was a born-again Christian – now Muslim. I am one of many.
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Ken Temple
You said;
Because they know they were not true Born-again Christians.
One thing you don’t seem to understand, and many Muslims don’t understand this, is that in the west, people can be in a general western “Christian” culture (USA, Europe, Australia, Canada, etc.), but NO one is a Christians unless they repent and believe and become born again by the Spirit of God. Baby baptism or going to church does not make you a Christian.
Whereas in Islam, one is a Muslim just by being born from Muslim parents and growing up in a Muslim culture; and they whisper the shehada in their ears after they are born.
I say;
Once again Dr. White says shame on you Ken. How can a covert from Christianity to Islam not a true Christian but a convert from Islam to Christianity is a true Muslim? Shame on you Ken, according to Dr. White you must be consistent and accept what you want the other side accept about you.
Thanks.
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I don’t think you were truly born-again – you could not have been, since you have the Holy Spirit changing you and since you turned your back on Christ, it proved that you were not really born again; though you had a religious and psychological experience – it was all external. You traded one form of external religion for another.
We already discussed this many times before; so Paul, here me – I am not trying to be disrespectful, etc. – it is just that your paradigm does not fit with what the Bible speaks about regarding someone who is truly born again –
John 6:44 – “I will draw them, and raise them up on the last day” – drawing, conversion, perseverance to the end.
Romans 8:28-30
those who are justified are also glorified, meaning taken all the way through the process of being conformed to the image of Christ (verse 29) to final perseverance and glorification in heaven.
John 10:27 – “My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me and . . . no one is able to snatch them out of my hand.
Besides, in your paradigm, there is no such thing as the Holy Spirit (the 3rd person of the Trinity who caused people to be born again and sanctifies them and guides them), so to think that is a contradiction to your current religion also.
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since you did not have the Holy Spirit changing you and since you turned your back on Christ, it proved that you were not really born again;
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Also, if you say you fall into the Arminian position, are you admitting that there is such a thing as the Holy Spirit, 3rd person of the Trinity, and re-birth and therefore, the Trinity is true?
If not, then you have to explain what that being born again is.
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We have discussed this many times before Ken. By the terms of your Calvinist theology you have a valid point. However, I do not consider Calvinism to represent accurately the teachings of Christ as understood in mainstream Christianity.
As a Muslim I still follow Jesus – albeit without the corruptions and excess of Trinitarianism.
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Ken Temple
You said;
Every argument Nabeel used against David Wood, while Wood was preaching the gospel to him, was Sunni type Ahmad Deedhat type arguments.
Read Nabeel’s book, he is not trying to deliberately deceive.
I say;
And so what? With all due respect, you have Masters in Divinity and what has this got to do with the topic at hand? If Nabeel uses Sunni type of argument and so what? does that make him Sunni? of course not. So why bring this irrelevancy to this discussion.
Some times I used Bart Erhman and Christian type of argument to prove my point here on blogging theology. Does that makes me atheist and Christian? No. With all due respect stay on topic. Nabeel said “My own religion” which cannot be erased till eternity to refer to Qadiani and Qadianis are non violent and cannot join isis and he deliberately did it to extort money from unsuspecting Christian audience but not a true Christian Dr. James White who will call a spade a spade.
Go Dr. James you are a true Christian but Ken Temple is those Christians who will use and throw any sink in to the kitchen, including a liar Nabeel to discredit Islam.
Thanks.
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ok, now we are getting some where now in dialogue.
If you say you were in the Arminian camp (Protestant Arminian or Roman Catholic) that you once had the Holy Spirit living inside of you – are you now admitting that there is a such a thing as the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person of the Trinity?
of course not; as a Muslim you cannot.
So how do you explain what kind of experience that was?
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By the terms of your Calvinist theology you have a valid point.
Thank you Paul; you are doing well in dialogue now, with this.
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that is a good question requiring some considerable spiritual discernment.
My provisional thoughts are as follows:
God is greater than my spiritual experiences of Him – however I understood those experiences at the time.
I did not learn all my theology at once. It was open to revision and correction – it still is.
God guides all people from all religions to His Light and Truth. I am convinced that he imparted significant spiritual enlightenment to me despite some seriously erroneous views I held.
My repentance from a sinful life to God was sincere and authentic. I moved from the realm of darkness into the Light.
Our life in this veil of tears is not black and white. We are on a pilgrimage from God to God. I will honour what God imparted to me as a Christian whilst recognising my shortcomings in my ideas of Jesus and God.
The Quran is clear that we worship the same God as Jews and Christians. In some ways my conversion to Islam was not to an utterly different religion.
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Paul,
I appreciate your communication and method of expression on that. Very good.
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though I disagree with how we interpret those experiences, I respect your own interpretation of what happened to you as your sincere view.
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Ken Temple
You said;
Ken Temple
December 12, 2015 • 5:40 pm
There are only basically 3 differences of Ahmadis vs. Sunnis :
But what Nabeel points out that except for the stuff about
1. the 2nd coming of the Messiah and Mehdi (they think Mirza Ghulam Ahmad fulfilled the Messiah and Mehdi metaphorically, etc.), and
2. as far as I can tell, they think physical Qatal / fighting/ Jihad / Harb (War to conquer and set up the Sharia and Caliphate, etc. is wrong; or was temporary for early centuries – Ahmadis don’t follow that stuff), and
3. they have a different system of Fiq (Jurisprudence) – except for those 3 big issues; Ahmadis still believe and practice pretty much everything that Sunnis and Shias do (the things the hold in common). They call their current leader a “Caliph”, but they don’t have territory or a political state, etc.
They still hold to Towhid; and they still do the 5 pillars of deeds and believe the 6 pillars of belief.
I say;
Did not Nabeel Quraish lied when he said if he is STILL, STILL, STILL, STILL, STILL the follower of Mohammed he would have travelled to Syria to Join isis and lied about the point number 2 you and him stated above about Ahmadis?
Nabeel Quraish, just like Sam Shamoun, David Wood, Walid Shoebat, Ergun Carner, Aayan Ali Hirsi etc. are all DAMN BLAST LIARS but on Nabeel’s part to extort more money from Christians to surpass Ergun Carner, Walid, Aayan, and Irshad Manji.
Christians have much money to give these callous liars and those Christians who knew about their lies and deliberately allow them a platform without calling them out have committed sin and will answer to their Lord Jesus Christ.
The Christians who called these liars out, kudus to you and may your Lord Jesus Christ bless you. We Muslims are behind you Christians with truth to search for the real truth as the Quran commanded us.
Those lying Christians who follows liars like Nabeel Quraish are following the path of Satan.
Thanks.
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This afternoon I was told by a source who has James Whites confidence that he (James) has come under immense pressure and criticism from fellow evangelists for his public honesty about Nabeel’s views.
James has integrity it seems.
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Go Dr. James White Go. We are behind you.Fear Christ and be truthful and your Lord will set you free from liars. God Bless you. You did it for Ergun Carner. Nabeel is no better than Ergun Carner.
Thanks.
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Just to assist Ken a little bit:
Ahmadis disbelieve in the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad (صلي الله عليه و سلم ).
They consider anyone who disbelieves in Ghulam Ahmad
an apostate hence would not offer
prayers behind them …. that’s the tip of the iceberg.
on the contrary Ken the Jehovah witnesses are far closer to Christianity than ahmadis are close to Islam, you, of course, may disagree, historically there have been Christians who denied Christ divinity; (some) docetist believe he wasn’t even crucified ,all these before proto -orthodox Christianity gained the upper hand, the finality of prophethood has always been a clear demarcation point between a Muslim and a zindeeq.
Nabeel is a liar period just listen to what he says and look at his body language!
Ken your attempt at ameliorating Biblical slavery is ludicrous.
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Br Paul, why do you tolerate shamoun’s comments?
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I personally don’t believe that Nabeel is lying about his former faith, I just think that unfortunately he has been taken in from the very beginning by a bad bunch of bunnies named David Wood and Sam Shamoun. We all thought that his joining RZIM would mean we would see a positive change with how he understands and interacts with Muslims. But he is reverting back to his old “getting arrested at Dearborn while preaching the Gospel” kinda thing.
I guess honest dialogue as James White has found out recently does not get a great amount of publicity within the Fundamentalist crowd. The only difference nowadays is that he wears a suit in the process.
I think the lesson we should take from this unfortunate situation is that we should choose our company very wisely indeed.
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“taken in from the very beginning by a bad bunch of bunnies” lol priceless
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Lest you eventually lose yourself and become like them.
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Kabir al Asfar
Sam Shamoun has no education except the little he had from his GED. He just copies some Hadith’s which most Muslims will not believe to his Christian audience and try to make Islam bad. We have refuted him several times and he does not have anything to argue but to copy and paste them again.
So ignore him. Sam Shamoun can join Nabeel Quraish to learn a theology of lies.
Thanks.
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Paul
David and Sam have indeed been very naughty boys, one can only imagine if caught how much naughty step time they would be dealt!
Both of these men have very good reason to be particularly grumpy this time of year as they well know. Santa only gives presents to the good boys and girls, not these two scrooges.
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as Sam would say – ‘Ouch!’
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The fact that Sam can spend so much time on this blog, and then proceed to beg for donations tells me something quite important. Instead of providing for his family, he chooses to spend his time being a perverted troll on the internet.
Call the IRS? Nope. Call the Child Protective Services. Sam is obsessed about children and sex. Every comment he posts is about Muslims, children and sex. One must wonder if this obsession is being projected upon his children? i am quite worried about their safety. They have a perverted, sexually obsessed father who earns a living begging for donations by performing crass acts on the internet. I’m sure the CPS has a lot of work to do with him.
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Paul,
Great job in exposing Mr. Nabeel’s dishonesty.
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Alḥamdulillāh
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Kabir Al Afsar wrote:
. . . historically there have been Christians who denied Christ divinity; (some) docetist believe he wasn’t even crucified . . .
No. if one denies the Deity of Christ, they cannot be a Christian.
If one denies the physical crucifixion and death of Jesus on the cross, they cannot be a Christian.
Romans 10:9-10 – “If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved . . . ”
Lord = God
John 8:24 – “Unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.” (“I am” = Yahweh)
The docetists deny that Christ was physical at all; they said He was a pure spirit, a phantom, who just seemed like he had a body. Docetism is from the Greek word, dokeo – δοκεω = “to seem”.
2 John 7 – whoever denies that Jesus has come in the flesh is a deceiver and an anti-Christ.
1 John 2:22 – whoever denies the Father and the Son is the anti-Christ.
1 John 4:2-3 – spirit of Anti-Christ denies that Jesus has come in the flesh. (has come physically)
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sorry – kabir Al asfar
sorry I spelled your name wrong.
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Thank God, Ken Temple, you have no authority whatsoever to define who is “Christian” or not
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Ken Temple
Nabeel Quraish lied. I hope and pray that no Muslim debate with Nabeel Quraish because Nabeel Quraish is a DAMN BLAST LIAR.
I hope Shabir Ally is listening because he debated with Nabeel Quraish of late. Nabeel Quraish’s lie is un erasable and cannot be defended.
Jay Smith and most Christian apologetics are liars but they did not lied about their former religion, and so Muslims can debate with Jay Smith and any Christian apologetics and that is o.k. in my view.
But for Nabeel Quraish, I beg, no Muslim must debate him because his lies are callous and wicked. The original video was instructed by act17apologetics of David Wood, Sam Shamoun and one Anthony Rogers and so they are responsible and must be questioned for them to wash their hands from this cannibalistic video before Muslims must debate with them.
I hope my Muslim debaters are hearing my plea. Nabeel, just like Ergun Carner etc. are a fake “ex-Muslims” to extort money from Christians and get rich.
Those Christians who knowingly give these liars a platform to deliberately fake their “ex-Muslims” to cheat other ignorant Christians, you sin against Christ.
Those Christians who washed your hands from the lies of Nabeel Quraish, I say Kudus and I pray your Lord Christ guide you.
Ken Temple you said;
No. if one denies the Deity of Christ, they cannot be a Christian.
If one denies the physical crucifixion and death of Jesus on the cross, they cannot be a Christian.
Romans 10:9-10 – “If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved . . . ”
Lord = God
John 8:24 – “Unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.” (“I am” = Yahweh)
I say;
Our point is that Salvation is a serious thing, that involves burning fire, so the core teaching of salvation must be clear from the mouth of our Almighty God and God as a sincere God has been clear about this from the Jewish scripture till today.
Examples.
“I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.” Isaiah 45:5
“I am Yahweh, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18
.”Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.” Isaiah 45:21
“I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me” Isaiah 46:9
“And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad].” Zechariah 14:9
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
Ken, the scripture clearly supports the docetist, Arians, Ebionites, Unitarian and Jehovah Witness as Yahweh clearly stated He is the One and Only God and no One else is God and He God is Alone.
CAN’T YOU UNDERSTAND THIS SIMPLE FACT Mr. Ken?
Lord ≠ God
Enter into Court of law and you will see human beings are called Lord. House of Lords. Pharoah is Lord. Some women call their husbands “my Lord”. Land Lord etc. So Lord is not equal to God and if Jesus is called Lord is just a respect.
God is reserved for our creator and He is the only God as He said above
“I am” is an incomplete statement and it can not over write the above clear statements from God that He is God.
“I am” cannot over write a clear statement “I am God” and “No one else”. Rabbi Tovia Singer has warn Christians about this dangerous path to throw clear statements of God and by God Himself away and rely on ambiguous statements written by someone and not by God is where cult starts.
Thanks.
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Nabeel Quraish says he dreamt of seeing crosses, a number of crosses and he converted from (Suni Islam because Ahmdiyya Movement do not travel to Syria to join isis) and Ken Temple whole heartedly believed him like he believes other “ex-Muslims” who tell similar lies.
What about Dr. James White? He did not quite believed about Nabeel Quraish’s dream because he claims Saran can cause a false dream to people if one does not use his intellect and common sense. Dr. James White is not happy on how some Christians give celebrity status to this “dream” and fake “ex-Muslim” people.
Dr. White is a very smart guy and I am sure he will not give his cent to this “dream ex-Muslim” liars but unfortunately people like Aayan Ali Hirsi and other ladies and gentlemen of the fake “dream ex-Muslim” liars are rich from the pockets of Christians including a scholar in the calibre of Craig Evans who quotes Aayan Ali Hirsi in his book and citing her as an Islamic scholar.
Unfortunate for people who do not want to learn and research. We do not give much dollars to even a real ex-Christians and Paul Williams is a witness. Before an ex-Christian becomes recognised he has to do his missionary work from his pocket and attend Islamic Institution and learn Arabic and Islamic religion.
Ex-Christian alone will not be rich from Muslims because he will be rich from God when he dies a Muslim and goes to heaven.
Paul Williams is doing a good Job for Islam and he does not want anything from Muslims but Paul put some donate button at least for the cost of the website. Nabeel is rich with big stomach and different suits like Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, Eddie Lee Long, Jimmy Swaggart, T. D. Jakes and a bunch of Christian rich.
Paul Williams get rich from Muslims because you are true ex-Christian.
Thanks.
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