Thanks Paul Williams and God bless you. At least it reduces the impact of this man Nabeel on Islam.
Back to topic.
We all believe in supernatural i.e. Heaven, Angel, Jinn, Paradise, God etc. It is mention in scriptures but our eyes has never ever seen them, so they are mysteries to us but yet still we believe them.
3, Three. Who can’t count 3? Any kindergarten kid can count 1,2, 3,4……………. for any one to hear. So counting of 3 is no more a mystery to us but a reality that any one can do.
Man, Human being. Any normal human being knows what a man looks like and can count human beings. So human beings are known to us. We have the knowledge of who human beings are.
Person/person. Every Person/person is a being. Either Angelic being, human being, Satanic being or a Divine being.
Therefore;
-To count 3 as 1 is not a mystery but lie, untrue, illogical, inconsistence, irrational, incoherent and impossible. It is not a mystery because we know how to count.
-We all know who a man or a human being is and a man or a human being is not God and is created. No body has seen God and snapped a picture of God and prove God is man, so God is not a man.
God-Man is neither man or God but a hybrid creature like man-goat. Man Goat, just like God-Man is impossible because Man-God is not a man.
-3 Persons are obviously 3 beings because no person can be a person without being a being. So 3 persons is 3 beings and it looks polytheism/idolatry.
Just for the record, I think that most Christians do not conceive of the Trinity as consisting of three beings. It’s likely that Muslim confusion about this comes from the incomprehension exhibited by Allah in the quran.
Dirk I am well aware that most Christians do not think that way. I used to be a Christian myself and I’m familiar with the creeds and councils on the Trinity.
The problem arises when one analyses logically Trinitarian beliefs about God, it become clear that they are implicitly tritheist.
Christians many not like this conclusion, but it is unfortunately inherent in their theology.
Is it Islamic theology to presume that we can define GOD’s parameters and capabilities using logic? Surely you know that even a basic divine concept such as infinity defies logical understanding?
But I’m not seeing where this tri-theism comes into it – that implies three separate powers with autonomous purposes which ultimately leads to conflict. That is not a Christian belief.
To my mind, tawhid implies multi-theism (since Allah requires created beings to interact with his creation) as its logical conclusion, but even worse, it implies a god whom we cannot truly know and therefore, cannot truly know that it is GOD who is communicating with us.
any proposition that is incoherent/contradictory is logically impossible.
Really?
I think Omer confuses paradoxes for incoherence and incomprehension for logical impossibilities. Paradoxes exist in the world of logic just as they do in theology. Omer is confusing his human intellectual limitations for GOD’s – we cannot understand a being who exists outside of our finite dimensions, hence, mystery.
Regardless, humans are mono-personal, therefore, GOD must be different, else, GOD is like HIS created beings, therefore, GOD IS multi-personal.
Muslims have a very pure monotheism which they see as compromised by speaking of three divinities, each person being fully god. Jews call it idolatry. Some senior Christian theologians have seen the problem inherent in the doctrine and have quietly moved to a more unitarian theology.
Let me ask you this:
X says he believes in One God. He is very firm in his belief.
He also says that there are a million persons in this Godhead, every single one is fully and completely god. All the million persons have their own distinct will, self-consciousness and identity.
Is X really a monotheist? or is this not a type of polytheism?
See, I give you a logical coherent reason for a multi-personal god and you change the subject!
X says he believes in One God. He is very firm in his belief.
He also says that there are a million persons in this Godhead, every single one is fully and completely god. All the million persons have their own distinct will, self-consciousness and identity.
Is X really a monotheist? or is this not a type of polytheism?
I don’t know – you would have to find someone willing to make an argument for that. I’m saying that a unitarian view of god is anthropomorphic and blasphemous.
But the Muslim view of Allah interests me – his unitarian nature makes him dependent on his creation and therefore not the greatest possible being.
‘I’m saying that a unitarian view of god is anthropomorphic and blasphemous.’
Oh dear. Poor Abraham, Moses, David and all the Hebrew Prophets! They knew nothing of a trinity!
Dirk, can you not have a think about this? I am making a hypothetical argument for it in the person of X. In principle I do not see a logical difference between the theology of X and trinitarianism.
X says he believes in One God. He is very firm in his belief.
He also says that there are a million persons in this Godhead, every single one is fully and completely god. All the million persons have their own distinct will, self-consciousness and identity.
Is X really a monotheist? or is this not a type of polytheism?
I say he is not a monotheist.
You say “But the Muslim view of Allah interests me.” That is very nice Dirk. But it is not the subject of this particular thread. Lets stay on topic.
In principle I do not see a logical difference between the theology of X and trinitarianism.
In principle I see no logical difference between pagans making idols in their own image and unitarians anthropomorphizing their god(s). What is your point?
Can Allah be uni-personal like the human beings he created?
My bad – I thought it was about the coherence of a multi-personal GOD. I’ve shown that it is a coherent concept. It follows, therefore, that unitarian views of GOD – including the Islamic one – merely anthropomorphize HIM.
good, glad we are back on the same page now: the Trinity.
Dirk, can you not have a think about this? In principle I do not see a logical difference between the theology of X and trinitarianism.
X says he believes in One God. He is very firm in his belief.
He also says that there are a million persons in this Godhead, every single one is fully and completely god. All the million persons have their own distinct will, self-consciousness and identity.
Is X really a monotheist? or is this not a type of polytheism?
Did you just post the same comment that I already answered above? Again, I would suggest that you find someone who holds that belief and pose the question to them.
I think you are avoiding looking at the incoherence of your own theology – Allah cannot possibly be mono-personal because that would make him like the humans he created. In principle Islam anthropomorphizes GOD in the same way pagans have done.
Thus, the TRINITY is more logical and coherent than the tawhid.
‘Did you just post the same comment that I already answered above? Again, I would suggest that you find someone who holds that belief and pose the question to them.’
Perhaps I wasn’t clear: its a hypothetical question, intending to draw out the questions at hand through an analogy.
I’m not going to be discussing other religions on this thread.
Back to the subject:
Do you think the Hebrew prophets were unitarian or trinitarian in their concept of God?
LOL!
Perhaps I wasn’t clear: its a hypothetical question, intending to draw out the questions at hand through an analogy.
Why resort to hypotheticals? I cannot defend a theological position that I don’t hold. I gave you a coherent and logical reason for why a multi-personal god is more theologically sound than a unitarian one. You simply refuse to engage on a coherent and logical level.
Where did you get your multi-personal God from? Certainly not from the Bible.
Besides, logically, every person is a being. No person can be a person without being a being. We know that for sure. If you tell me that a person is not a being, then you lied, excuse me to say because that is not a reality.
From the Bible
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
“Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
“You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
“O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
Dirk, the above verses from the Bible clearly said God is He, One, Alone and nothing else. There is no single “3 persons 1 God” in the whole Bible. It is logically impossible for 3 persons who are 3 beings to be 1 being, that is why you cannot find it in the Bible because God is not the author of confusion.
You may not think that a person is a being as a Trinitarian just like Hindus or Mormons may think their multi-personal gods are not a being each. Any person is a being. That is a reality.
God Almighty sent prophets and angels in the Bible. If by that you mean God is weak, then that is your insult to God and you will answer to God in the day of judgement why you insult Him as weak for sending angels and prophets. IT IS IN THE BIBLE GOD SENT PROPHETS AND ANGELS. So insulting God for that is a blaspheme.
Questioned
But I do wish you would answer the huge problem of how Allah can be mono-personal like the humans he created.
Answered
From the Bible God said He is One, Only and Alone and nothing else. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING ELSE? At that time Jesus was not born and that is the standard for all humanity from Abraham because God is not wicked to change a major salvation message.
Proof1:
1.”I am Yahweh, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18
Proof2:
1.”since indeed God is one [hen]” Romans 3:30
2.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
3.”there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
4.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
5.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
6.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
7.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
If God is One, Only and Alone and there is none else. It is blaspheme to say He is multi-personal with each person fully God. It means He is not One, Only and Alone as the verses said but multi God and that is like Mormons and Hindus having multi Gods.
Opined
That’s true of all beings but GOD since he is not – and cannot be – like the beings he creates.
Countered
-Oh yes. But you believed and Christian Trinitarians believed GOD becomes man(Jesus Christ) the beings He created.
-You believed God becomes impure by coming to stay with impure human beings and yet you disagreed with that your own believe that God so pure that no man can approach him because human are impure and will taint God pureness.
-You believed God has stayed in a womb of a woman and unite with a woman egg just like the beings He creates and was given birth like the beings He creates.
You cannot eat your cake and have it at the same time.
The Jews and Muslims always followed the Torah, but Muslims specifically follows the Quran and believed that a Torah has been revealed from the same God that states GOD IS NOT A MAN AND GOD DOES NOT CHANGE.
Christian Trinitarians argued that God can become a man and has changed and He can do whatever He wants, but now you are agreeing with Muslims and Jews that;
“That’s true of all beings but GOD since he is not – and cannot be – like the beings he creates.”
From your own mouth and writings but not me. Then why not reject your Trinitarian religion that says God became the beings He creates and stayed with them because He loves them?
Another contradiction by Trinitarians. God is God but not a human being, so He still loves us, that is why He created us in the first place and provided heaven for us and sent His angels and prophets to guide us to Him because of our choice and freewill that other creations like angels do not have.
Opined
I’m at a disadvantage because Paul keeps (rudely) deleting my comments. JESUS is not created nor is HE like other men in creation, thus, he meets the criteria for GOD as being unlike HIS creation
Countered;
Then what does he want in the womb of Mary? The womb is for sperms and egg to meet, fertilize and develop into a man. This a process of creating man. Trinitarians believed, God spirit unites with the egg of Mary and created a fully man and fully God. So Jesus is fully man. All men are created so Jesus or his man part is created and becomes a created like God created beings.
I really understand your frustrations with Mr. Dirk as he keeps repeating what he had been refuted over and over. But I have time for him because I am at work with many computers and can over refute him again.
I understand your frustration, but I have to monitor comments on this blog and he wastes my time. If you wish I can arrange for you to exchange emails.
I do not want to exchange with him with email because no one can see it. It is ok if he is a nuisance. He is indeed a nuisance when he keeps repeating what he had been refuted before.
The unctuous drivel missionaries come up with is amazing. “The mystery that invites us in, … the Trinity invites us in ….” Into what exactly?
Gnostic mumbo jumbo.
What relationship do you have with ‘God? You have not seen God. How does a picture of God looks like? Abraham, Solomon, Moses and all prophets of God have not seen God, how can you see God?
We are slaves of God but cannot be masters of God or equal to God. If you think you are not a slave of God, then you are equal to God or the master of God. It is blaspheme to think so and you will answer to God in the day of judgement for saying you are not His slave.
Jesus himself prayed to God and he is a slave of God.
So what’s wrong with being a slave? Anything less than absolute sovereignty is slavery and only God is absolutely sovereign.
If we are not slaves before God, then it must be that we possess a degree of sovereignty that defies God’s power. In that case, God wouldn’t be absolutely sovereign.
The point is, if God is absolutely sovereign then we are necessarily all slaves.
What nonsense. The fact that you feel as if you can speak for Allah and defend him demonstrates you don’t actually practice what you believe. Total incoherence on your part.
No relationship. It’s tragic and cruel. Why you defend being a slave and nothing else is hellish. No wonder Muhammad enjoyed so many slaves…
Mark, I can defend the notion of a master-slave relationship between God and humanity because (1) I can, and (2) there’s nothing irrational about it.
As for your snide comment about Muhammad (saw), if you can accomplish even 1% of what he has accomplished, then maybe we have a reason to take you seriously. Until then, you’re just some random troll on the internet.
You said;
What nonsense. The fact that you feel as if you can speak for Allah and defend him demonstrates you don’t actually practice what you believe. Total incoherence on your part.
No relationship. It’s tragic and cruel. Why you defend being a slave and nothing else is hellish. No wonder Muhammad enjoyed so many slaves…
I say;
We will defend our creator till the day of judgement and still defend Him. Only a fool will not defend his creator and only a stupid and a useless person will not know Allah is the God of Arab Christians and Arab Jews and all humanity and He deserved to be respected.
We do relate to God as Kmak explained, but in a God as Master and we as slaves and pray for Him. Only an ass hole will not pray for His God because Jesus prayed for his God as well.
Jesus advised his followers to pray to their creator and say “Our Father, who art in heaven” . That is slavery being taught by Jesus to his disciples.
Don’t you know that if you pray to someone, you are a slave to him?
If God is not Master, why did Jesus taught his followers to say “Give us this day our daily bread”? Why did Jesus not ask his disciples to say “we are masters of our daily bread”?
“As for your snide comment about Muhammad (saw), if you can accomplish even 1% of what he has accomplished, then maybe we have a reason to take you seriously. Until then, you’re just some random troll on the internet.”
What, you want me to form an army and start attacking innocent tribes? Or go find another 10 wives, one of which is only 6?
You’re right. Muhammad did accomplish a lot, but not much of it was moral or God honouring
You said;
What, you want me to form an army and start attacking innocent tribes? Or go find another 10 wives, one of which is only 6?
You’re right. Muhammad did accomplish a lot, but not much of it was moral or God honouring
I say;
Mary was also young when your God impregnated her and produced a hybrid God-Man. Your God command for the killing of everyone including babies and you are following him as your example.
Your God Jesus Christ commanded every slave to serve his master perfectly and so Abraham has more wives including his slave and had children with them.
Your God commanded his prophets to sleep with their daughter and to commit incest and you are following his examples but to complain about our prophet who
-fights to protect his populations including sick, children, elderly and weak
-protects the property of his populations
-fight and protect his populations from those who wants to annihilate the Muslims, like the crusaders use Jesus command to annihilate the Jews and Muslims and now trying hard to annihilate the Palestinians with the use of Biblical verses.
Mark: What, you want me to form an army and start attacking innocent tribes? Or go find another 10 wives, one of which is only 6? You’re right. Muhammad did accomplish a lot, but not much of it was moral or God honouring
No, I don’t want you to form an army and start attacking others. You are too big of a loser to accomplish something like that. How about this: Despite being uneducated, Muhammad(saw) produced a book that became a standard of the Arabic language. Can you write a book in a language of your choice that will have a similar impact on that language?
Muhammad wasn’t uneducated, he had been learning from people around him since he was a child.
Uneducated and illiterate are not one and the same thing. You can be educated yet illiterate at the same time.
Blogging Theology 
Great point Paul.
Our Christian brothers and sisters need to understand the massive distinction between mystery and incoherence or better stated contradiction.
Mysteries can be true despite our lack of understanding why that concept or proposition is true…after all we are not all knowledgable.
However, any proposition that is incoherent/contradictory is logically impossible.
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Thanks Paul Williams and God bless you. At least it reduces the impact of this man Nabeel on Islam.
Back to topic.
We all believe in supernatural i.e. Heaven, Angel, Jinn, Paradise, God etc. It is mention in scriptures but our eyes has never ever seen them, so they are mysteries to us but yet still we believe them.
3, Three. Who can’t count 3? Any kindergarten kid can count 1,2, 3,4……………. for any one to hear. So counting of 3 is no more a mystery to us but a reality that any one can do.
Man, Human being. Any normal human being knows what a man looks like and can count human beings. So human beings are known to us. We have the knowledge of who human beings are.
Person/person. Every Person/person is a being. Either Angelic being, human being, Satanic being or a Divine being.
Therefore;
-To count 3 as 1 is not a mystery but lie, untrue, illogical, inconsistence, irrational, incoherent and impossible. It is not a mystery because we know how to count.
-We all know who a man or a human being is and a man or a human being is not God and is created. No body has seen God and snapped a picture of God and prove God is man, so God is not a man.
God-Man is neither man or God but a hybrid creature like man-goat. Man Goat, just like God-Man is impossible because Man-God is not a man.
-3 Persons are obviously 3 beings because no person can be a person without being a being. So 3 persons is 3 beings and it looks polytheism/idolatry.
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Paul
Just for the record, I think that most Christians do not conceive of the Trinity as consisting of three beings. It’s likely that Muslim confusion about this comes from the incomprehension exhibited by Allah in the quran.
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Dirk I am well aware that most Christians do not think that way. I used to be a Christian myself and I’m familiar with the creeds and councils on the Trinity.
The problem arises when one analyses logically Trinitarian beliefs about God, it become clear that they are implicitly tritheist.
Christians many not like this conclusion, but it is unfortunately inherent in their theology.
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Paul
Thanks for the measured response.
Is it Islamic theology to presume that we can define GOD’s parameters and capabilities using logic? Surely you know that even a basic divine concept such as infinity defies logical understanding?
But I’m not seeing where this tri-theism comes into it – that implies three separate powers with autonomous purposes which ultimately leads to conflict. That is not a Christian belief.
To my mind, tawhid implies multi-theism (since Allah requires created beings to interact with his creation) as its logical conclusion, but even worse, it implies a god whom we cannot truly know and therefore, cannot truly know that it is GOD who is communicating with us.
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you have been over these issues with others before on this blog.
Omer puts it well:
Our Christian brothers and sisters need to understand the massive distinction between mystery and incoherence or better stated contradiction.
Mysteries can be true despite our lack of understanding why that concept or proposition is true…after all we are not all knowledgable.
However, any proposition that is incoherent/contradictory is logically impossible.
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Paul
Really?
I think Omer confuses paradoxes for incoherence and incomprehension for logical impossibilities. Paradoxes exist in the world of logic just as they do in theology. Omer is confusing his human intellectual limitations for GOD’s – we cannot understand a being who exists outside of our finite dimensions, hence, mystery.
Regardless, humans are mono-personal, therefore, GOD must be different, else, GOD is like HIS created beings, therefore, GOD IS multi-personal.
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we will have to agree to disagree about this one.
Muslims have a very pure monotheism which they see as compromised by speaking of three divinities, each person being fully god. Jews call it idolatry. Some senior Christian theologians have seen the problem inherent in the doctrine and have quietly moved to a more unitarian theology.
Let me ask you this:
X says he believes in One God. He is very firm in his belief.
He also says that there are a million persons in this Godhead, every single one is fully and completely god. All the million persons have their own distinct will, self-consciousness and identity.
Is X really a monotheist? or is this not a type of polytheism?
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Paul
See, I give you a logical coherent reason for a multi-personal god and you change the subject!
I don’t know – you would have to find someone willing to make an argument for that. I’m saying that a unitarian view of god is anthropomorphic and blasphemous.
But the Muslim view of Allah interests me – his unitarian nature makes him dependent on his creation and therefore not the greatest possible being.
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‘I’m saying that a unitarian view of god is anthropomorphic and blasphemous.’
Oh dear. Poor Abraham, Moses, David and all the Hebrew Prophets! They knew nothing of a trinity!
Dirk, can you not have a think about this? I am making a hypothetical argument for it in the person of X. In principle I do not see a logical difference between the theology of X and trinitarianism.
X says he believes in One God. He is very firm in his belief.
He also says that there are a million persons in this Godhead, every single one is fully and completely god. All the million persons have their own distinct will, self-consciousness and identity.
Is X really a monotheist? or is this not a type of polytheism?
I say he is not a monotheist.
You say “But the Muslim view of Allah interests me.” That is very nice Dirk. But it is not the subject of this particular thread. Lets stay on topic.
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Salesmanship
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Paul
In principle I see no logical difference between pagans making idols in their own image and unitarians anthropomorphizing their god(s). What is your point?
Can Allah be uni-personal like the human beings he created?
yahyasnow
Peanut gallery.
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Dirk a reminder: this post is not about your “Allah”. It is about the Trinity. No more no less.
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Paul
My bad – I thought it was about the coherence of a multi-personal GOD. I’ve shown that it is a coherent concept. It follows, therefore, that unitarian views of GOD – including the Islamic one – merely anthropomorphize HIM.
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good, glad we are back on the same page now: the Trinity.
Dirk, can you not have a think about this? In principle I do not see a logical difference between the theology of X and trinitarianism.
X says he believes in One God. He is very firm in his belief.
He also says that there are a million persons in this Godhead, every single one is fully and completely god. All the million persons have their own distinct will, self-consciousness and identity.
Is X really a monotheist? or is this not a type of polytheism?
I say he is not a monotheist. What say you?
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Paul
Did you just post the same comment that I already answered above? Again, I would suggest that you find someone who holds that belief and pose the question to them.
I think you are avoiding looking at the incoherence of your own theology – Allah cannot possibly be mono-personal because that would make him like the humans he created. In principle Islam anthropomorphizes GOD in the same way pagans have done.
Thus, the TRINITY is more logical and coherent than the tawhid.
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I’m not going to be discussing other religions on this thread.
Back to the subject:
Do you think the Hebrew prophets were unitarian or trinitarian in their concept of God?
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‘Did you just post the same comment that I already answered above? Again, I would suggest that you find someone who holds that belief and pose the question to them.’
Perhaps I wasn’t clear: its a hypothetical question, intending to draw out the questions at hand through an analogy.
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Paul
LOL!
Why resort to hypotheticals? I cannot defend a theological position that I don’t hold. I gave you a coherent and logical reason for why a multi-personal god is more theologically sound than a unitarian one. You simply refuse to engage on a coherent and logical level.
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Why do you laugh at my suggestion that the prophets were unitarian (see Isaiah for an outstanding example)?
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The prophets are not from another religion, they spoke the truth from God about God.
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Dirk
Where did you get your multi-personal God from? Certainly not from the Bible.
Besides, logically, every person is a being. No person can be a person without being a being. We know that for sure. If you tell me that a person is not a being, then you lied, excuse me to say because that is not a reality.
From the Bible
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
“Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
“You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
“O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
Dirk, the above verses from the Bible clearly said God is He, One, Alone and nothing else. There is no single “3 persons 1 God” in the whole Bible. It is logically impossible for 3 persons who are 3 beings to be 1 being, that is why you cannot find it in the Bible because God is not the author of confusion.
You may not think that a person is a being as a Trinitarian just like Hindus or Mormons may think their multi-personal gods are not a being each. Any person is a being. That is a reality.
God Almighty sent prophets and angels in the Bible. If by that you mean God is weak, then that is your insult to God and you will answer to God in the day of judgement why you insult Him as weak for sending angels and prophets. IT IS IN THE BIBLE GOD SENT PROPHETS AND ANGELS. So insulting God for that is a blaspheme.
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Dirk
Questioned
But I do wish you would answer the huge problem of how Allah can be mono-personal like the humans he created.
Answered
From the Bible God said He is One, Only and Alone and nothing else. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING ELSE? At that time Jesus was not born and that is the standard for all humanity from Abraham because God is not wicked to change a major salvation message.
Proof1:
1.”I am Yahweh, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18
Proof2:
1.”since indeed God is one [hen]” Romans 3:30
2.”to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
3.”there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
4.”Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
5.”Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
6.”Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
7.”See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
If God is One, Only and Alone and there is none else. It is blaspheme to say He is multi-personal with each person fully God. It means He is not One, Only and Alone as the verses said but multi God and that is like Mormons and Hindus having multi Gods.
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Dirk
Opined
That’s true of all beings but GOD since he is not – and cannot be – like the beings he creates.
Countered
-Oh yes. But you believed and Christian Trinitarians believed GOD becomes man(Jesus Christ) the beings He created.
-You believed God becomes impure by coming to stay with impure human beings and yet you disagreed with that your own believe that God so pure that no man can approach him because human are impure and will taint God pureness.
-You believed God has stayed in a womb of a woman and unite with a woman egg just like the beings He creates and was given birth like the beings He creates.
You cannot eat your cake and have it at the same time.
The Jews and Muslims always followed the Torah, but Muslims specifically follows the Quran and believed that a Torah has been revealed from the same God that states GOD IS NOT A MAN AND GOD DOES NOT CHANGE.
Christian Trinitarians argued that God can become a man and has changed and He can do whatever He wants, but now you are agreeing with Muslims and Jews that;
“That’s true of all beings but GOD since he is not – and cannot be – like the beings he creates.”
From your own mouth and writings but not me. Then why not reject your Trinitarian religion that says God became the beings He creates and stayed with them because He loves them?
Another contradiction by Trinitarians. God is God but not a human being, so He still loves us, that is why He created us in the first place and provided heaven for us and sent His angels and prophets to guide us to Him because of our choice and freewill that other creations like angels do not have.
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Dirk
Opined
I’m at a disadvantage because Paul keeps (rudely) deleting my comments. JESUS is not created nor is HE like other men in creation, thus, he meets the criteria for GOD as being unlike HIS creation
Countered;
Then what does he want in the womb of Mary? The womb is for sperms and egg to meet, fertilize and develop into a man. This a process of creating man. Trinitarians believed, God spirit unites with the egg of Mary and created a fully man and fully God. So Jesus is fully man. All men are created so Jesus or his man part is created and becomes a created like God created beings.
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Dirk will not be commenting anywhere on this blog anymore. BloggingTheology is having a well earned break from trolls and time-wasters.
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Paul Williams
I really understand your frustrations with Mr. Dirk as he keeps repeating what he had been refuted over and over. But I have time for him because I am at work with many computers and can over refute him again.
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I understand your frustration, but I have to monitor comments on this blog and he wastes my time. If you wish I can arrange for you to exchange emails.
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Not so Paul.
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not so what?
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I do not want to exchange with him with email because no one can see it. It is ok if he is a nuisance. He is indeed a nuisance when he keeps repeating what he had been refuted before.
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it might be ok with you but I own this blog and its not ok with me. Sorry.
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Thanks. Case closed and lets focus on those who will not be nuisance.
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The unctuous drivel missionaries come up with is amazing. “The mystery that invites us in, … the Trinity invites us in ….” Into what exactly?
Gnostic mumbo jumbo.
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Into a relationship- the key thing Allah cannot provide. Your just a slave remember. Nothing more, nothing less
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Mark
What relationship do you have with ‘God? You have not seen God. How does a picture of God looks like? Abraham, Solomon, Moses and all prophets of God have not seen God, how can you see God?
We are slaves of God but cannot be masters of God or equal to God. If you think you are not a slave of God, then you are equal to God or the master of God. It is blaspheme to think so and you will answer to God in the day of judgement for saying you are not His slave.
Jesus himself prayed to God and he is a slave of God.
Thanks.
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Mark: Your just a slave remember.
So what’s wrong with being a slave? Anything less than absolute sovereignty is slavery and only God is absolutely sovereign.
If we are not slaves before God, then it must be that we possess a degree of sovereignty that defies God’s power. In that case, God wouldn’t be absolutely sovereign.
The point is, if God is absolutely sovereign then we are necessarily all slaves.
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What nonsense. The fact that you feel as if you can speak for Allah and defend him demonstrates you don’t actually practice what you believe. Total incoherence on your part.
No relationship. It’s tragic and cruel. Why you defend being a slave and nothing else is hellish. No wonder Muhammad enjoyed so many slaves…
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Mark, I can defend the notion of a master-slave relationship between God and humanity because (1) I can, and (2) there’s nothing irrational about it.
As for your snide comment about Muhammad (saw), if you can accomplish even 1% of what he has accomplished, then maybe we have a reason to take you seriously. Until then, you’re just some random troll on the internet.
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Mark
You said;
What nonsense. The fact that you feel as if you can speak for Allah and defend him demonstrates you don’t actually practice what you believe. Total incoherence on your part.
No relationship. It’s tragic and cruel. Why you defend being a slave and nothing else is hellish. No wonder Muhammad enjoyed so many slaves…
I say;
We will defend our creator till the day of judgement and still defend Him. Only a fool will not defend his creator and only a stupid and a useless person will not know Allah is the God of Arab Christians and Arab Jews and all humanity and He deserved to be respected.
We do relate to God as Kmak explained, but in a God as Master and we as slaves and pray for Him. Only an ass hole will not pray for His God because Jesus prayed for his God as well.
Jesus advised his followers to pray to their creator and say “Our Father, who art in heaven” . That is slavery being taught by Jesus to his disciples.
Don’t you know that if you pray to someone, you are a slave to him?
If God is not Master, why did Jesus taught his followers to say “Give us this day our daily bread”? Why did Jesus not ask his disciples to say “we are masters of our daily bread”?
Thanks.
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“As for your snide comment about Muhammad (saw), if you can accomplish even 1% of what he has accomplished, then maybe we have a reason to take you seriously. Until then, you’re just some random troll on the internet.”
What, you want me to form an army and start attacking innocent tribes? Or go find another 10 wives, one of which is only 6?
You’re right. Muhammad did accomplish a lot, but not much of it was moral or God honouring
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Mark
You said;
What, you want me to form an army and start attacking innocent tribes? Or go find another 10 wives, one of which is only 6?
You’re right. Muhammad did accomplish a lot, but not much of it was moral or God honouring
I say;
Mary was also young when your God impregnated her and produced a hybrid God-Man. Your God command for the killing of everyone including babies and you are following him as your example.
Your God Jesus Christ commanded every slave to serve his master perfectly and so Abraham has more wives including his slave and had children with them.
Your God commanded his prophets to sleep with their daughter and to commit incest and you are following his examples but to complain about our prophet who
-fights to protect his populations including sick, children, elderly and weak
-protects the property of his populations
-fight and protect his populations from those who wants to annihilate the Muslims, like the crusaders use Jesus command to annihilate the Jews and Muslims and now trying hard to annihilate the Palestinians with the use of Biblical verses.
Thanks.
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Mark: What, you want me to form an army and start attacking innocent tribes? Or go find another 10 wives, one of which is only 6? You’re right. Muhammad did accomplish a lot, but not much of it was moral or God honouring
No, I don’t want you to form an army and start attacking others. You are too big of a loser to accomplish something like that. How about this: Despite being uneducated, Muhammad(saw) produced a book that became a standard of the Arabic language. Can you write a book in a language of your choice that will have a similar impact on that language?
I’m waiting.
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Muhammad wasn’t uneducated, he had been learning from people around him since he was a child.
Uneducated and illiterate are not one and the same thing. You can be educated yet illiterate at the same time.
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