God’s forgiveness: god who self controlled his suicide or God the most Merciful who simply forgive for those who ask him?

 

Suicide-vs-fofgiveness

Safely back to my hometown Alhamdulillah.

During my pilgrimage to holy city of Mecca to perform the  Umrah, I had the opportunity for much reflections:

For one thing I am grateful for the faith in Islam.

I am grateful realising God’s mercy is available to us who  have faith and hope in Him especially when making prayer in sincerity, calling to His  forgiveness. There were tremendous feeling of humbleness witnessing hundred of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world,  of all colours and races,  regardless of social status or wealth, were all  to turn to Allah for forgiveness sincerely hoping  their sins were forgiven by Allah and among those who were protected from the hellfire.

ربنا آتنا في الدنيا حسنة وفي الآخرة حسنة وقنا عذاب النار

“Rabbana aatina fi’l-dunya hasanah wa fi’l-aakhirah hasanah wa qina ‘adhaab al-naar”

Our Lord, give us that which is good in this world and that which is good in the Hereafter, and protect us from the torment of the Fire

This all makes perfect sense to me.

Why the need of god who condemn humanity to “original sin” which then could only be forgiven by him demanding that he die?? How can a god can die  in the first place?
It is totally illogical to me how can god self controlled his suicide which is clearly faking his own death by exiting his own punishment for the purpose of shedding a “divine” blood in order to forgive people from their sins?

I know that God  can just  forgive  those individual who sincerely repent from a guilty heart and I endeavour all my life to ask for His forgiveness.

Thanks God for this faith.

 



Categories: Islam

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11 replies

  1. This merely means that Allah allows injustice to exist. If you murder someone and ask Allah’s forgiveness and you receive it, then the poor murdered soul and those close to them who suffered as a result of the crime continue to be the victims of injustice.

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  2. With the name of Allah

    In islam there is always “criterion of repentance”and that’s God alone to judge, if He wills He will forgive him by His grace. But if He punishes him, He will punish him to whatever extent He wills, but that does not mean that he will abide in Hell for eternity if one who believes in Tauheed dies believing in Tauheed and as a Muslim because God will bring him forth from that punishment.

    The point of my post is, it is not logical to believe that  god died for atoning people sins.

    While in Islam makes it clear time and again God is accessible for those who ask forgiveness for their sins… no need for  vicarious atonement.

     

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  3. Eric

    I hear you on that, but that still leaves the problem of unpunished sin and unattained justice.

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  4. Irk

    Justice and forgiveness.

    If a sincerely repentant person is punished at all cost, then it is not forgiveness at all. Forgiveness is always free of charge. If something is done before of forgiveness, then it is not forgiveness anymore.

    God does not owe anyone, so no one can hold Him responsible for someones crime. God is our Creator and is not bound by the laws He set for us. We are responsible for our crimes.

    There is hell and paradise and other forms of punishment from this world to the hereafter, if one does not sincerely repent from his sins.

    The repentance must be sincere. If you sin and continue to do the same sin again and keep repenting means you are not sincere and you cannot fool God and there is a chance that if you do not sincerely repent and stop that sin and never to do it again, you will indeed be punished.

    There are various ways of punishments and it depends on God to administer His punishment whether here of in the day of judgement.

    If you wronged someone, it could be a test for him because in Islam, every calamity s a test for us and we continue to endure it and believe in God and it gets us closer to God by not resorting to disbelieving God because of our calamity. If the person who wronged someone sincerely repent, with remorse and will not do that again, the there is a chance that he will be forgiven free of charge with no blood, money or anything ant that is forgiveness.

    God does not owe anyone but He settles everyone with punishment and gift in various forms from this world to the other world.

    Someone could get his child murdered by someone and God will bless the victim with more children and money and sometimes he can even be blessed with paradise. That is God’s decision to what He will do. The wrongdoer could go free is HE SINCERELY REPENT AND NEVER TO DO THAT AGAIN. BUT MURDER IS ONE OF THE SERIOUS CRIME BUT COULD BE FORGIVEN ESPECIALLY IF THE FAMILY ARE CONVINCED YOU SINCERELY REPENT.

    We do see Christians who keep forgiving their criminals. Is it against Christianity to forgive? Of course not.

    SINCERELY REPENT AND NEVER TO DO THE SIN AGAIN IS THE requirement for forgiveness, so that is in itself a justice.

    Even a judge can use his discretion and not use justice when he sees the criminal has really regretted and the judge will only warn him and give him a condition never to do the crime again and never to visit the area where he committed the crime.

    It is only the idol gods and satanic gods who will punish at all cost and will never sympathize with a sincerely repentant person to forgive him but punish him at all cost. That is not justice or forgiveness but wickedness..

    Islamic God forgives at His discretion and it is true forgiveness with no payment and it is free of charge.

    Thanks.

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  5. It is wrong to call Jesus’ death a “self-controlled suicide”. In order to do proper Da’wa دعوی or دعوا – according to Surah 29:46 – you should allow the Christians to define their own doctrine and theology.

    The eternal Word / Eternal Son became flesh/human (John 1:1-5; John 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8) and taught the truth and gospel and did miracles and evil people killed Him for claiming to be the Messiah and Son of God and God in the flesh – John 5:17-18, John 19:6-7.

    Not fighting back in anger or violence is not suicide.

    He voluntarily, out of His great love for humanity, laid His life down for people from all the nations.
    John 10:18

    Revelation 5:9

    The gospel also calls you to repent and believe in Christ as Messiah, Son of God, and God in the flesh, who died on the cross and rose from the dead.
    Mark 1:15 – “repent and believe”

    The problem with Islamic repentance is that it is never sincere, since you don’t believe you are sinners by nature and in the heart – you can never be truly or sincerely penitent / humble, since you think you can by your own power sincerely repent; and that repentance is over individual external actions of sin. Your religion of Islam does not seem to emphasize internal sins enough; it does not deeply realize the the depth of internal wickedness of secret sins of pride, selfishness, greed, sinful anger, lust, jealousy, envy, etc. in the heart. You cannot gain forgiveness by doing external rituals and prayers, vudu, rituals of Hajj or Umrah to Mecca, etc. External rituals do not cleanse the heart of sinful pride and selfishness and lust, hatred, etc.

    Mark 7:20-23
    20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him.
    21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,
    22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
    23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

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  6. With the name of Allah.

     

    Sorry you throw a lot of verses but I dont really follow you.

    So “Not fighting back in anger or violence is not suicide.”

    That what define a suicide, an act of intentionally causing one’s own death. I think I have put it precisely.

    And

    With regard to christian theology,  it was god who  applied his own death but then rewarded himself.  Christians hinge their belief on this very act that god play some sort of  weekend temporary termination sometime in 2,000 years in order for god to be happy not to doom everyone to Hell.

    It is in itself a self controlled execution.

    We muslims find it bizarre how can this temporary finite act serves as God’s love?

    Islam offers a direct relationship with God almighty.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. I was listening to a rabbi and he made a point I had never considered before. He explains why Trinitarians seem so fixed on something which has no evidence to support it.

    The rabbi spoke about humans knowing they have committed untold heinous sin (we all have) and because they know they have done so much sin they think about forgiveness from a human perspective – when a wife forgives a husband for some injustice he did years ago and there’s a row the wife may bring that up. So these people are attracted to the idea of vicarious atonement. They find it difficult to see God as All Forgiving by just forgiving them if they turn to Him in sincere repentance hence the idea of an innocent man paying the price.

    In reality, it’s their low view of God which leads them to that doctrine of vicarious atonement.

    That was his explanation/theory

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    • Yes, I listened about this too some time ago, I think it was Rabbi Scobac who made this point . The idea that God somehow has the need to “pay” the sin (which by definition : sin is the act of violating God’s will so.. God only has the authority to “erase” the sin) …by murdering Himself is bizarre and unnecessary.

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  8. Jesus didn’t cause His own death; sinful human beings killed Jesus; and God holds them accountable. (Judas Ischariot, the Jewish leadership, Pilate, the Romans who did the actual crucifying, based on the orders of Pilate and the Jewish leadership who forced and manipulated Pilate to do it.

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  1. Are human sinners by nature and in the heart? – Blogging Theology

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