“you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.”
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“you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.”
Blogging Theology 
Well, according to Christians, Jesus was fully man and fully God so when he says he heard from god it means he heard from the god that dwells or reside within him. Something like that, I guess.
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er yes.
But don’t all Christians think God lives inside their bodies? One told me that last Sunday. Not sure why they don’t start worshiping each other.
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Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'”
John 20:17
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Hmm, interesting.. but you see, that’s a mystery a paradox. You just have to believe it. I think they use the same chapter to prove Jesus’ divinity “Before Abraham was I am.”
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Some Hindus might worship a monkey or a tree as god. They too can say ‘that’s a mystery a paradox’.
And we just have to agree right?
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As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, ‘Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?’ 18 Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.
Mark 10
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I think they must have some Trinitarian explanation for that, I am just saying what they usually say to me and others. I also heard them saying Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath that also somehow proves Jesus’ divinity.
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I have not heard a trinitarian explanation for Mark 10.
‘I also heard them saying Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath that also somehow proves Jesus’ divinity.’
But I have never come across a verse in the Bible that says this.
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“…to my God and your God.” God has a God sounds lot like polytheism to me.
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it sure does. But don’t worry. Lets just call it a ‘mystery’ and the problem vanishes.
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But they usually cite that wording or statement, don’t they? Jesus is the lord of the Sabbath, I think Sam Shamoun also said that in a debate with brother Sami Zaatari.
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I promise you: there is no such verse anywhere in the Bible
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This might help me in the future when someone quotes that statement. Good to know 🙂
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I think its worth pointing out that Dr. Bart Ehrman, a favourite amongst muslims apologists says that the Gospel of John clearly presents the deity of Christ.
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Dr. Bart Ehrman, like most NT scholars, does not consider the historical Jesus to have said the high Christological statements attributed to him in that gospel. In other words historians don’t tend to think Jesus said them.
Your own Fr Raymond Brown, a world authority on John’s gospel, said as much. I notice you have purchased a number of his works.
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I do have some of them. I still need to buy his two volume work Death of the Messiah. It’s been quoted in Resurrection debates between Muslims and Christians such as Dr. Licona vs Dr. Ally. When I got into apologetics five years ago I realized that I needed to read his works. I’m glad that I have but his works are so long. There is still a lot of his that I need to read.
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All of these profits (yes, I know – it’s deliberate) were just men who made up and propagated man-made religious practices. Yours was one of the worst – his uncle (whoever that was – we have no historical evidence that this uncle existed) identified him as a profit and he pushed a religion that promised prosperity to its followers – like a modern-day christian prosperity gospel only with more B.O and bloodshed.
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Allan Ruhl “I think its worth pointing out that Dr. Bart Ehrman, a favourite amongst muslims apologists says that the Gospel of John clearly presents the deity of Christ.”
I think its worth pointing out that Dr. Bart Ehrman says that the Gospel of John clearly presents another “deity of Christ” different from the synoptics’.
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Paul thank you for quoting half a verse proves half of what Christians believe. That Jesus is,a MAN. Now deal with the other half of the verse that proves the other half of what Christians believe. That Jesus is Also GOD.
John 8:40 “Abraham did not do such things.”
So when did Abraham have the opportunity to kill Jesus?
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“So when did Abraham have the opportunity to kill Jesus?”
When he was on acid doing the time warp?
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Burhan now here I was thinking that Muslims respected other religions guess thats just another “taqiya” from Muslims.
But here is a Hint Gen 18
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Why are you obsessed with killing your god?
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Burhan and that misrepresentation has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I know its hard for Muslims to say focused. ADD is just another common trait that all Muslims seem to share. But please try to stay focused on the topic at hand.
The topic is the verse that Paul Williams deliberately and deceptively only half quoted. John 8:40. So where did Abraham have a chance to kill Jesus?
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“So where did Abraham have a chance to kill Jesus?” On Planet Hippo Sushi?
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Burhan thanks for proving that Radical Anti Extremist Muslims are like Radical Extremest Muslims who do not respect other peoples religions.
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Crazy Hippy Rainbow and that misrepresentation has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I know its hard for you to say focused. ADD is just another common trait that all loonies like yourself seem to share. But please try to stay focused on the topic at hand.
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Hola, there!
Its been interesting following the discussion here for a while now and, frankly, it’s been moderate so far until someone decided to make mockery of an integral part of it, which seems to make mess of the whole discussion.
No problem, I believe Socrates had something to say concerning such a thing: “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
Debate and discuss without insults or mockery. Thanks to all who’ve given their views here.
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Crazy Hippy Rainbow, whats your implied hint in Gen 18? another trinitarian misunderstanding of the text?
http://www.bibleanswerstand.org/QA_trinity.htm Gen 18
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Omar when did Abraham ever have a chance to kill Jesus as Jesus said he did?
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Omar just read over (not in depth as it seems to refute a position I do not hold), so your link does not refute my position.
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CHPRS,
Have I got the context below? I just don’t see how this cannot be seen as a negation to the idea that Jesus was divine. I don’t think the post misses anything in order to argue against the idea of divinity.
Can you state and explain your objection in full?
Thanks
37″I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38″I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.” 39They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40″But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.…
Peace
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Yahya Jesus makes three explicit statements. 1st he says that the Jews are trying to kill him Something ABRAHAM DID NOT DO. So when did Abraham ever have a chance to kill Jesus?
Hint Gen 18.
He later makes another explicit statement “Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad” John 8:56. Question when did Abraham rejoice about seeming Jesus and when did Abraham see Jesus?
And the finally Jesus gives the I AM statement. “Before Abraham was I AM”. John 8:58.
So answer these three questions.
1. When did Abraham ever have a chance to Kill Jesus? Hint Gen 18
2. When did Abraham rejoice at seeing Jesus’s day?
3. When did Abraham see Jesus Day and was glad?
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quote:
I AM is the bread of life (Jn 6.35,48)
I AM is the light of the world; he who follows me… [shurely “him”?] (Jn 8.12)
I AM is the door: he who enters through me [him?] will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. (Jn 10.9)
I AM is the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down his life for his sheep. [shades of patripassionism] (Jn 10.11)
I AM is the way, the truth, and the life; nobody comes to the Father but through me. [now this is just confused] (Jn 14.6)
I AM is the true vine, and my Father is the farmer. [God the Grandfather?] (Jn 15.1)
Perhaps it is tempting to have the people who came to arrest Jesus in John 18 fall over (v.4-8) at “I AM”, but when they ask for “Jesus the Nazarene”, εγω ειμι clearly just means “that’s me”. It also happens to be the way Peter says “it’s me” at Acts 10.21, Judas says “it isn’t me” in Matthew 26.22,25, and the many false messiahs say “it’s me” in Mark 13.6 and parallels.
end quote
with this interpretation in mind which is taken from :
https://jamesdowden.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/bible-myths-before-abraham-was-a-burning-bush/
so before abraham “that’s me” / it’s me
but james says :
To conclude
I’m sure this myth is so deep-seated that I don’t stand any chance of shifting it.
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i forgot this bit
https://jamesdowden.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/bible-myths-before-abraham-was-a-burning-bush/
In case anyone was in any doubt about εγω ειμι not meaning I AM at John 8.58, let’s offer some equally silly translations:
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“Gen 18.”
Deut 4:19. And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, which the Lord your God assigned to all peoples under the entire heaven, and be drawn away to prostrate yourselves before them and worship them.
are you telling me abraham disobeyed this command and became a pagan by worshipping the malakim?
EVEN the malakim are HOST OF HEAVEN
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Robert wrote….
“Perhaps it is tempting to have the people who came to arrest Jesus in John 18 fall over (v.4-8) at “I AM”, but when they ask for “Jesus the Nazarene”, εγω ειμι clearly just means “that’s me”.
I say to Quote Dr David Wood “That is an argument brought forth from the depths of mount stupid”
So I guess the Jews did not have your level of understanding, cause had they known what you know they would not have picked up stones to stone him, the guards would not have fallen on their face.
Seriously dummy try harder, you didn’t even get what ego emi actually means,. LOL
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“So I guess the Jews did not have your level of understanding, cause had they known what you know they would not have picked up stones to stone him, the guards would not have fallen on their face.”
there are different ways to interpret it. if he said “before abraham it is i /it’s me”
then do you think jews will not consider it blasphemous that a satan filled jew
48The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
thought he /his day came before the big prophet abraham?
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“Seriously dummy try harder, you didn’t even get what ego emi actually means,. LOL”
did jesus fart when he was in the midst of his disciples? do you worship a farting god? you call me “dummy” yet you worship a farting god who may have had shit buried deep in his nails?
how can you call me “dummy” ?
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“would not have picked up stones to stone him, the guards would not have fallen on their face.”
“Perhaps it is tempting to have the people who came to arrest Jesus in John 18 fall over (v.4-8) at “I AM”, but when they ask for “Jesus the Nazarene”, εγω ειμι clearly just means “that’s me”
that john makes up bs and has the people fall to the ground does not mean the bs’ers like john thought “jebuz of nazarene” = /referring to yhwh.
“that’s me” is identifying a man called “jezerbuz of nazareth”.
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