29 replies

  1. If Sela can indeed be connected with Yathrib/Madina, then it’s interesting that when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) entered Yathrib, he was welcomed by the people who literally shouted from the rooftops in celebration.


    • You’re still an idiot Shamoun.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Does any one of you have the courage to debate this idiot on whether Isaiah 42 is about Muhammad? I didn’t think so.😉


    • Don’t you mean ‘does anyone want to waste their time debating a mentally unstable guy whose highest level of education is a GED?’?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Let’s get this straight. You won’t debate me because I have a GED, but you still choose to blindly worship a false dead profit whom you boast was an illiterate ignoramus, and was so mentally unstable that he wanted to commit suicide because he thought he was demon possessed? Yep, you really are a genius.

      If you are an example of what happens to a person after extensive schooling then you make a strong case for stopping at a GED then moving on to “higher education.”

      So what was that about having a GED? ROFL


    • then moving = than moving


    • Shamoun: Let’s get this straight. You won’t debate me because I have a GED, but you still choose to…

      I am an educated, widely read and widely traveled person. I don’t see and understand the world in the same way an uneducated, mentally unstable piece of shit like you does.

      Shamoun: If you are an example of what happens to a person after extensive schooling then you make a strong case for stopping at a GED then moving on to “higher education.”

      Lol! Look who’s talking?


  2. Gentlemen do more abusive comments please. Any more will just be deleted. Thanks.


  3. The believing Jews of the First century applied Isaiah 42 to the Messiah Jesus – Matthew 12:18-21; Luke 2:32. Jesus is the light of the nations.

    the verses (Isaiah 42:10-12) about Kedar and Sela (usually connected to Petra/Edom, in modern day Jordan), descendents of Ismael, are about some of the Arabian tribes who will come and worship the Messiah – see also Isaiah 60:1-9. Kedar and Nabaioth (Nabatea), Sheba (modern day Yemen) are mentioned there also, descendants of Ishmael, who will bring offerings and worship Him who is the light of the nations. Many connect the passages with the coming of the Magi to worship the true Messiah, King Jesus. The Magi were probably a group of wise men from many people groups of the east – Persians, Kurds (Medes), Arabs, Babylonians, Assyrians.

    So, it is not about Muhammad, rather is about Jesus the Messiah, and that nations will come and believe in Him and worship Him, one day. And God is still drawing some people from all nations to Himself. (Revelation 5:9) Descendants of Ishmael, Kedar, Nabaioth, Sheba (modern day Yemen) will come to faith in Christ.


    • It cannot be Jesus. I give you top 3 reasons-:

      #1.Isaiah emphasises the universal mission of the coming person.The verse in Isaiah cannot apply to Jesus because in the Gospel of Matthew Jesus said:“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” [Matthew 15:24]

      #2.Isaiah states that this special person will be a warrior and will fight God’s enemies.Jesus did not triumph over his enemies, according to Christians he was crucified by them. Moreover Jesus wasn’t interested in fighting, he was not a man of war, he was a pacifist according to the New Testament.

      #3.Isaiah emphasises that this new Man gonna bring new law.But if we read the Bible again, we see that Jesus (pbuh) says Matthew 5:17 “Think not I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but fulfill”. And if we read further we understand that Jesus (pbuh) did not come with new law.But Muhammad (pbuh) came with new law.


    • Jesus was the Messiah for all peoples; he later told the disciples that they would go before the Gentile kings and nations – Matthew 10:18. Jesus later expanded His mission through the disciples to all the nations. Matthew 28:19-20. Jesus was born for all the nations. Luke 2:32. His statement to the Canaanite woman was meant to test her and the disciple’s racial prejudice and as a way of saying, “to the Jew first, then also to the Gentiles” (Romans 1:16) Jesus is a spiritual warrior who comes twice. when He comes again He will judge all unbelievers and He will make just war with the sword of His mouth. (Revelation 19:11) He is ruling now in heaven, and when He sends people to hell because of their sin and rebellion, it is justice.


    • Am I supposed to take this as your reply to my above 3 points? Really???

      You didn’t answer me. You are just putting forth your emotional arguments. You said Jesus was sent to mankind. But here is a contradiction.Because in many places he said that he was sent to israel and even he ordered his disciples to go to the lost sheep of israel.For e.g., Matthew 10:5-6.These are the words of Jesus in the Bible. It is quite obvious that Jesus was NOT sent to Mankind and Christianity isn’t a religion for Mankind.

      WHAT ABOUT NEW LAW SIR?? Jesus didn’t bring new law.

      And according to Paul wasn’t Jesus supposed to return within the lifetime of Paul? I mean within the lifetime of the first Christian generation. Isn’t it. What verse are you showing me in your defense haa. Revelation?? The prophesy was showing the advent of coming prophet and you are twisting and turning and taking back to the second coming of Jesus.How desperate you are. Really. I am amused by your response.

      With this knowledge you have come for debate??


    • Matthew 10:5-6 was a short-term trip of training that the Jewish disciples had to learn to give testimony to the kingdom of God to their own culture first, then later in the same context, Jesus clearly says that they will go to the Gentiles – all the nations – Matthew 10:17-18, 24:14; 28:19, and many other passages cited there.


    • There are many verses in the New Testament that supports this mission of Jesus.In Matthew 1:21, we read that,“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS, for he shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.”

      What you mean by HIS PEOPLE in this verse? Did it mean Gentiles here? Were Gentiles are Jesus’ people?

      Anyone who says otherwise, i.e. that Jesus was sent to the whole world, clearly neither understands Jesus’ mission nor the Scriptures.


    • “His people” = some from all nations – Genesis 12:3; 22:18
      The LORD said to Abraham, “I will make you a great nation, and through you and your seed all the nations of the earth will be blessed.”

      Galatians 3:16 – the promises were to Abraham and to his seed, . . . meaning one, that is, the Messiah . . .
      Revelation 5:9 (some from every people, tribe, tongue, nation) ; 7:9; 1 Peter 2:9-10 the Gentile nations are now also the people of God – a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a people for God’s own possession. (uses quotes from OT about Israel and applies them to the Gentile nations.


    • Nope! Gentiles were not his people. Jesus never preached to Gentiles. It was Peter and the church who first did this after departure of Jesus. Prophet Abraham’s seed can not be gentiles.You have patently absurd and nonsensical understanding of the biblical text.


  4. That the passage of Isaiah 42 was about Jesus in Matthew 12 and Luke 2:32 was already established 500-600 years before Muhammad, so it cannot be about Muhammad.


    • Excuse me! Mathew disagrees with the Christian concept of Trinity. Christians don’t hold Jesus to be God’s servant, or do they? They don’t..
      Explain Isaiah 42:3. How Jesus fit into it? Because the verse reads, “A bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice.” I hope I quoted right.
      I don’t think someone who was killed by a bunch of people could fit this description.And Jesus didn’t establish justice during his tenure.


    • Yes, Jesus is “the Servant of the Lord”. He is the suffering Servant of Isaiah 42 and 53. Mark 10:45 – the Son of Man came to serve. “I am among you as one who serves”. John 13 .

      He did the ultimate work of justice by taking on the just wrath of God on the cross, against all our sins.

      He now rules in heaven on His throne. He sends unbelievers to hell and that is total justice.

      He will make just war against evil when He comes back. Revelation 19:11


    • So what I summarise from your argument in defense is that When you see prophesy of a Prophet you quickly demote Jesus from the position of triune God of trinity to just a mere Prophet or Servant, or as you said Suffering Servant.This shows how desperate you are that nothings stops you from lowering a persons status.Through OT no Prophet or servant has been called God.What a double-standard and Hypocrisy.

      Next you said hanging on the cross is justice. How immature and insignificant your words are. You call an innocent man hanging on cross a justice delivered.

      I don’t know about You but I definitely will not gamble my soul away for this kind of theology & belief that you carry in your heart.


    • If you read the whole NT, Jesus is both prophet, servant, Son of God, Son of Man, the Word, the Messiah, God the Son. Jesus voluntarily went to the cross out of love for the Father and for humanity. It is all through the New Testament. It seems like you have not read the New Testament.


    • It’s simple, A God can not be a Prophet, and a Prophet can not be God. Neither God is a man nor Son of Man. I hope you know Numbers 23:19. Even logic and reason will not support your claim.
      Then a helpless man who’s crying out for help,and who’s insulted,and spat, and ridiculed I don’t think he did it out of love and voluntarily.
      Then Crucifixion is one but allegation is 3:

      #1.The Jews wanted to kill Jesus to prove he was a false Messiah; they expected the Messiah to be victorious, and liberate Palestine from Roman rule. The Jews rejected Jesus because he was purely a spiritual teacher (John 1:11, 18:36), and not a political leader, as “foretold” in the Old Testament.
      #2.Then, the Gospels record that Jesus was crucified for false political charges, yet the Pharisees had charges of blasphemy (claiming to be God’s son, working on the Sabbath).
      #3.And then,the Romans considered Jesus a threat to the occupation; they assumed he was a political leader disguised as spiritual teacher.

      And you say that Jesus died for sins. Nobody on the spot back then believed what you are saying. Moreover, if Jesus was crucified he couldn’t have been the Messiah. The Psalms clearly describe the Messiah as victorious.The Prophet David was the Anointed (Christ), a politico-religious leader, yet he was victorious over his enemies.The Prophet David himself slaughtered thousands of his enemies .So how can Jesus be any different? The Jews expected another Messiah like David to descend from his lineage. The Gospels deny the Jewish Messiah by teaching the crucifixion, the Bible says God would save the Messiah.


  5. Sheba (modern day Yemen) was not a descendant of Ishmael, but already there in Southern Arabia before Ishmael. (Genesis 10:28) They are the original Arabs of Arabia, even before Ishmael came to N. Arabia (modern day Jordan). (From Joktan, Genesis 10:25)


    • Brother Ken,

      Let me help you out a little bit on Jesus’ mission. In your post you mentioned Matthew 10:18 and 28:18-20. However, you need to bring up the following as well. The following is taken from my article:

      “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.’” Matthew 28:18-20

      Jesus’ instruction to his followers to go forth and make disciples of all nations shows that Christ came to save the entire world, not just the nation of Israel, a fact that is confirmed in Mark’s Gospel:

      “He said to them, ‘Go into ALL THE WORLD and preach the gospel to ALL CREATION. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.’” Mark 16:15-16

      Nor is this the only place in Matthew where Jesus expressly testifies that the Gospel which he brought must be proclaimed throughout the entire world to all nations:

      “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached IN THE WHOLE WORLD as a testimony to ALL NATIONS, and then the end will come.” Matthew 24:14

      We again find Mark’s Gospel making this very same point:

      “You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. And the gospel must first be preached to ALL NATIONS. Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.” Mark 13:9-11

      “Truly I tell you, wherever the gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.” Mark 14:9

      Matthew even cites a passage from Isaiah 42:1-4 which identifies Jesus as the Servant of Yahweh whom all the nations must put their trust and hope in:

      “Aware of this, Jesus withdrew from that place. A large crowd followed him, and he healed all who were ill. He warned them not to tell others about him. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: ‘Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations. He will not quarrel or cry out; no one will hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory. In his name THE NATIONS will put their hope.’” Matthew 12:15-21

      This is the same Servant whom Isaiah says shall illuminate the nations and bring God’s salvation to all the ends of the earth:

      “Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations: Before I was born the Lord called me; from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name. He made my mouth like a sharpened sword, in the shadow of his hand he hid me; he made me into a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver. He said to me, ‘You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will display my splendor.’ But I said, ‘I have labored in vain; I have spent my strength for nothing at all. Yet what is due me is in the Lord’s hand, and my reward is with my God.’ And now the Lord says—he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord and my God has been my strength—he says: ‘It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, that my salvation may reach TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH.” Isaiah 49:1-6

      In Luke’s Gospel a man called Simeon employs the very language of this specific text to describe Jesus’ role and mission:

      “Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him. It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required, Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying: ‘Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you may now dismiss your servant in peace. For my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of ALL NATIONS: a light for revelation to THE GENTILES, and the glory of your people Israel.’” Luke 2:25-32

      Luke also records Jesus himself instructing his disciples to spread his message to the ends of the earth so that all the nations are given the opportunity to hear and believe in Christ’s name in order to receive forgiveness of sins:

      “He said to them, ‘This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.’ Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, ‘This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name TO ALL NATIONS, beginning at Jerusalem.’” Luke 24:44-47

      “He said to them: ‘It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, AND TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH.’” Acts 1: 7-8

      Thus, as far as the consistent witness of the NT is concerned Christ’s message wasn’t meant for the Israelites alone. Rather, the Gospel of the Lord Jesus is God’s means of salvation for all the nations throughout the entire world, just as the blessed Apostle Paul stated in one of his inspired Epistles:

      “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” Romans 1:16

      This is why Revelation can speak of a great multitude of people whom no one could number from every nation, tribe, and tongue that have been redeemed by Christ’s sacrificial death:

      “And they sang a new song, saying, ‘Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.’” Revelation 5:9-10

      “After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, ‘Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, AND TO THE LAMB.’ And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, ‘Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.’ Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, ‘These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?’ I said to him, ‘My lord, you know.’ And he said to me, ‘These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.’” Revelation 7:9-17

      Liked by 1 person

    • those are all great verses to show Jesus came for all nations. Thanks for those additional points that demolish Islamic arguments.


    • This too is taken from my article and shows that even Islam teaches that Christ came for the whole world:

      What Muhammad Taught

      Ironically, even Muhammad is said to have confirmed the universal scope of Jesus’ mission since this is what he wrote in the Quran:

      He said: “So (it will be), your Lord said: ‘That is easy for Me (Allah): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign TO MANKIND and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah).’” S. 19:21 Hilali-Khan

      And she who was chaste, therefore We breathed into her (something) of Our Spirit and made her and her son a token FOR (all) PEOPLES. S. 21:91 Pickthall

      These texts explicitly testify to Muhammad’s belief that Jesus and his blessed mother were meant to be miraculous signs for all the nations so that they may believe in God.

      Muhammad also taught that the Gospel (as well as the Torah) was sent down to guide all mankind, not just the Jews:

      It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) Before this, as a guide TO MANKIND, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of God will suffer the severest penalty, and God is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution. S. 3:3-4 Y. Ali

      That’s not all. According to the oldest extant Muslim biography, Muhammad further taught that Jesus commissioned his disciples to preach the Gospel to the entire world:

      Yazid b. Abu Habib al-Misri told me that he found a document in which was a memorandum (T. the names) of those the apostle sent to the countries and kings of the Arabs and non-Arabs and what he said to his companions when he sent them. I sent it to Muhammad b. Shihab al-Zuhri (T. with a trusty countryman of his) and he recognized it. It contained the statement that the apostle went out with his companions and said: ‘God has sent me as a mercy to all men, so take a message from me, God have mercy on you. Do not hang back from me as the disciples hung back from Jesus son of Mary.’ They asked how they had hung back and he said, ‘He called them to a task similar to that which I have called you. Those who had to go on a short journey were pleased and accepted; those who had a long journey before them were displeased and refused to go, and Jesus complained of them to God. (T. From that very night) every one of them was able to speak the language of the people to whom he was sent.’ (T. Jesus said ‘This is a thing which God has determined that you should do, so go.’)

      Those whom Jesus son of Mary sent, both disciples and those who came after them, in the land were: Peter the disciple AND PAUL WITH HIM, (Paul belonged to the followers and was not a disciples) to Rome. Andrew and Matthew to the land of the cannibals; Thomas to the land of Babel, which is in the land of the east; Philip to Carthage which is Africa; John to Ephesus the city of the young men of the cave; James to Jerusalem which is Aelia the city of the sanctuary; Bartholomew TO ARABIA WHICH IS THE LAND OF THE HIJAZ; Simon to the land of the Berbers; Judah who was not one of the disciples was put in place of Judas. (The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, with introduction and notes by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, Seventeenth Impression 2004], p. 653; capital emphasis ours)

      And according to renowned Muslim scholar and commentator Ibn Kathir, Jesus’ disciples were commissioned to invite both Jews and Greeks to embrace Islam!

      Allah the Exalted orders His faithful servants to be Allah’s supporters at all times, in all their statements and actions, sacrificing their selves and wealth. Allah orders them to accept His and His Messenger’s call, just as the disciples said to Prophet `Isa when he said…

      (Who are my helpers (in the cause) of Allah) meaning, `who will support me in conveying the Message of Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored?’…

      (The Hawariyyun said:) in reference to the followers of `Isa…

      (We are Allah’s helpers) meaning, `we will support you with regards to the Message you have been sent with and will help you convey it.’ Whereby, `Isa sent the disciples to the various areas of Ash-Sham to call THE GREEKS and the Israelites to Islam. Similarly, during the days of Hajj, Allah’s Messenger used to ask…

      Allah the Exalted and Most Honored raised Al-Aws and Al-Khazraj to support the Prophet. They were the residents of Al-Madinah who gave the pledge to him and supported him, vowing to protect him from mankind and the Jinns if he migrated to them. When he migrated to them with his Companions, they fulfilled their vow to Allah. This is the reason why Allah and His Messenger called them, Al-Ansar, the Supporters. The name became synonymous with them… (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Q. 61:14; capital emphasis ours)

      This means that Muslims must either accept that Jesus’ mission is universal in nature, or admit that Muhammad was mistaken for contradicting their claim that Holy Bible teaches that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

      SOURCE: http://answeringislam.net/authors/shamoun/qa/universal_mission.html


  6. Paul’s Pal

    You said;
    Brother Ken,

    Let me help you out a little bit on Jesus’ mission. In your post you mentioned Matthew 10:18 and 28:18-20. However, you need to bring up the following as well. The following is taken from my article:

    “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.’” Matthew 28:18-20

    I say;
    I am sorry you did not help Brother Ken Temple because there are so many passages that Jesus said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, God is not a man, God is not the messiah, Jesus was sent but did not come on his own, God is not servant to anyone and many more.

    Paul’s Pal, you are just trying to challenge your scripture and what Jesus said but not Muslims or any refutation of the above video.

    Any one can CHEAT, CHEAT, CHEAT, CHEAT like idol worshipers and say their God is both God and stone argue, well he sees the stone as God but cannot see God at the same time but the stone is God.


    It is just like me saying Haile Selaissie is God Man and when confronted I cheat and say well he can die and be alive at the same time. That and all Paul’s Pal and his brother’s challenge are nonsense, untruths and against themselves, their religion and scripture.



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