Cosmic child abuse

In some forms of Christianity, God tells us to forgive, but He won’t do the same Himself without drawing blood. It leads to a form of cosmic child abuse.

Let me quote from Baptist minister Rev Steve Chalke who is very critical of this kind of belief,

“The fact is that the cross isn’t a form of cosmic child abuse—a vengeful Father, punishing his Son for an offence he has not even committed. Understandably, both people inside and outside of the Church have found this twisted version of events morally dubious and a huge barrier to faith. Deeper than that, however, is that such a concept stands in total contradiction to the statement: ‘God is love’. If the cross is a personal act of violence perpetrated by God towards humankind but borne by his Son, then it makes a mockery of Jesus’ own teaching to love your enemies and to refuse to repay evil with evil.”

(Steve Chalke and Alan Mann, The Lost Message of Jesus, [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2003], pp. 182-183)

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God says to mankind in the Holy Qur’an 

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Categories: Christianity, Quran

16 replies

  1. I haven’T read Chalke’s book but I get the sense that the proper context of the quote you presented would not support what you seem to be implying.

    That aside, in that quote from the quran, it is not at all clear that your god is making a statement to all mankind – saying “O servants” sounds like he is speaking to believers who transgress.

    Of course, if alah forgives all sins then you are left with a lot of victims of violence and other crimes, and sins of the soul, who never receive justice. Injustice cannot exist in the presence the pristine lord, so whoever your god is, he cannot be pristine.

    Plus, it is not true that he forgives all sin – the mountains of dead apostates and adulterers are your proof.

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  2. people who follow God are encouraged not to despair of God’s mercy and seek his forgiveness. I would guess that devil worshipers would not heed that good news. On the day of Judgement every one will be treated justly. And those who seems to loose out in this life will be recompensed and evil doers will be punished.

    The popular idea amongst evangelicals that God must have a blood sacrifice to forgive sins is not taught by Jesus or Mohammad. This is the point of the article you have failed to address.

    Liked by 1 person

    • So you admit that your god does not forgive all sins and the quran is wrong.

      What about the guy whose parents are murdered? When your god decides to forgive the murderer for some random, capricious reason, how does their loss of justice glorify the entity you worship? What does he do with the injustice? Ignore it? Pretend it doesn’t exist? Whistle a happy tune?

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    • It is tiresome to repeat but since Jesus was a Torah abiding Jew he was an active participant in blood sacrifice. He also taught it re New Covenant- “this is my body that will be broke for you”…

      Repetition of falsehood is not an argument. Muhammad is the one who lacks consistency with the former prophets and should therefore be rejected

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  3. If someone has to pay, it’s not forgiveness.
    If It‘s forgiveness, no one has to pay.

    Liked by 2 people

    • This is an important point evangelicals just don’t get.

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    • Burhanuddin1

      “If someone has to pay, it’s not forgiveness.
      If It‘s forgiveness, no one has to pay.”

      What about the guy whose parents are murdered? When your god decides to forgive the murderer for some random, capricious reason, how does their loss of justice glorify the entity you worship? What does he do with the injustice? Ignore it? Pretend it doesn’t exist? Whistle a happy tune?

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  4. It was always unjust for the heretic Steve Chalke to describe the atonement as “cosmic child abuse” and saying that is contradicts “God is love”, and that it makes a mockery of the command to love others, even one’s enemies”, etc.

    It was unjust to leave out other points of the doctrine. And seeing the quote above, Chalke fails to mention that the Son willingly and voluntarily came to take the punishment for sin for sinful humanity; and the Son did this out of love for the Father and love for human sinners from all the nations. (Revelation 5:9; 7:9; Romans 5:6-11)

    Chalke also thinks homosexuality is not sin and that so called “same sex marriage” is ok; so this guy is a complete heretic and not credible, no matter what other good he may do.

    Why did God set up the sacrificial system in Leviticus chapters 1-7 and 16 and 17?
    It is not only unintentional sins that needed sacrifice, but intentional sins also – Leviticus 6:1-7 and chapter 16 and 17:11, and Hebrews 9:22 shows that it included intentional sins also, but they are only effective if there is genuine repentance and faith. Someone who just goes through the ritual without heart repentance and faith in God/Christ’s atonement, is also not effective, and hypocrisy. Psalm 66:18 – “If I regard sin in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.”

    Isaiah 53 clearly shows that the Suffering Servant ( Messiah) would be an individual who would come and be a substitutionary sacrifice and atonement for sins; someone who voluntarily rendered Himself as a guilt offering; thus satisfying the justice of God against sin.

    ” . . . the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall upon Him” Isaiah 53:6

    “The Lord was pleased to crush Him, if He would voluntarily render Himself a guilt offering . . . ” Isaiah 53:10

    “As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied . . . the righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, He will bear their iniquities.” Isaiah 53:11

    “He poured Himself out to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.” Isaiah 53:12

    “for the Son of Man . . . came to serve [be the suffering servant of Isaiah 53] and to give His life a ransom for many.” Mark 10:45

    Maybe that is why the cry for justice is so great in the Muslim world and there are SOME who take the law into their own hands and do honor killings – because Islam as a whole have denied the love of God in the atonement of Christ [as in Surah 4:157], and therefore, don’t have the power to forgive enemies or injustice or wrong.

    Why did God create hell?

    In Christian theology, hell is God’s justice against unrepentant sinners. (Revelation 14:10; Revelation 20:10-15)

    Those that repent and trust in Christ’s atonement, are saved from sin, and the penalty of sin, which is hell; but that does not mean they have “fire insurance” and live like however they want, no; rather, they are changed to be “new creations” (2 Cor. 5:17) with hearts and character of love and purity. (Galatians 5:22-23)

    Christ the eternal Son came to willingly and lovingly take the penalty for sin in our place. (John 10:18)

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  5. “Christ the eternal Son came to willingly and lovingly take the penalty for sin in our place. (John 10:18)”

    Actually no. “Being dead” for 1 day and two nights with full knowledge of a glorious “resurrection” is hardly the penalty of eternal damnation without any hope whatsoever, the thing the Christian missionary like yourself threatens Muslims with in order to lure them into your irrational belief.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Did you know that Paulus is an Australian missionary who lived undercover in a Muslim country for many years – was it Indonesia or Malaysia? I forget which.

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    • He also claimed first the Muslim country he lives in undercover was in the middle east – which seemed to be a lie.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Indonesia and no, not undercover. Just used a pseudonym here for personal safety. Never claimed to live in the ME either- I think that was just assumed by some here

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    • personal safety lol – big girls blouse

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    • Paulus said he had to work undercover as missionary in the Middle East.
      Paul Williams later found out from his IP address that he was actually in Indonesia.
      Paulus said he worked as a water supply engineer.
      His main aim though is “Church planting”. He refused to tell what group/sect he actually belongs to.

      Muslims need protection against, not salvation by people like “Paulus”.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Burhanuddin1: Actually no. “Being dead” for 1 day and two nights with full knowledge of a glorious “resurrection” is hardly the penalty of eternal damnation without any hope whatsoever, the thing the Christian missionary like yourself threatens Muslims with in order to lure them into your irrational belief

    Don’t forget that it normally takes days for a crucified person to die whereas Jesus was on the cross only for a few hours. Seems like God didn’t want his son to suffer.

    Liked by 1 person

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