If the Trinity doctrine is true, why don’t Jews believe it? – Rabbi Tovia refutes Mike Licona

If the Trinity doctrine is true, why don’t Jews believe it and why isn’t it CLEARLY outlined in scripture? – Rabbi Tovia Singer refutes Mike Licona.



Categories: Bible, Christianity, God, Islam, Judaism, Quran

34 replies

  1. Would you like me to take Singer’s position and turn it against Muhammad to prove that he was a false prophet? It will be my pleasure to do so, so let me know. 😉

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  2. ih Sammy it would be better for you to take Singers Biblical position in his actual belief that God Almighty is one divine personal being comprised of one person..it would make you much less a polytheist you are now that currently and erroneously worships 3 uncreated divine persons or gods that each share the same essence of divinity…for your sake at least turn away from false unbiblical christological polytheism and come closer to the notion of Biblical monotheism…even Singers believes you are a pagan..Jesus would class you the same lol…and also knowledge Muslims are true monotheists…😉 May God Almighty guide you…

    Liked by 1 person

  3. This thread is about whether the trinity is true not whether Muhammad is a true prophet silly…please pay attention sammy.. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  4. oh and It will be my pleasure to illustrate you are a polytheist accordingly to your bible, so let me know.😉

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Paul Williams

    “If the Trinity doctrine is true, why don’t Jews believe it and why isn’t it CLEARLY outlined in scripture?”

    That is a dumb question – there are hundreds of thousands of messianic jews who believe in the trinity and the number grows daily. And it is clearly outlined in scripture – jesus clearly and unequivocally claims divinity, the holy spirit is shown to have personhood.

    On a side note, I think Licona did a great job of pointing out the poor reasoning of the muslim guy in the video – the god of islam is not clearly outlined in the OT, the prophet of islam is not predicted in the OT, there are no commands to face mecca to pray, no mention of circling the kaaba or kissing the black stone, no commands to pray like muslims, and no commands to make a hajj to a pagan shrine in arabia.

    Furtehrmore, nowhere in the OT do true prophets mistake god’s angels for demons.

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    • That is a dumb response– “there are hundreds of thousands of messianic jews who believe in the trinity and the number grows daily”…doesn’t change the fact that the false trinitarian conceptualization of ‘oneness’ or ‘One’ God is clearly not a biblical teaching or outlined in the scripturers trinitarian ‘oneness’ is not biblical monotheism…D ☺

      According to your erroneous eisegesis of the scriptures you are falsely illustrating you worship 3 distinct persons or gods that each share the same essence of divinity…thats makes three uncreated distinct gods lol that clearly and unequivocally breeches biblical monotheism 😉

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    • “…the holy spirit is shown to have personhood.”

      You insist that the Holy Spirit is one distinct person because Biblical language shows the Holy Spirit has the attributes of a single person, but deny the one God is one distinct person when the same thing is true of the one true God?

      Seriously? Of course not. You are a trolling joke.

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    • Omar

      I hope and pray that you are being deliberately obtuse for internets reasons, if not, you are really stupid not to recognize the faulty reasoning in the statement “If the Trinity doctrine is true, why don’t Jews believe it…”

      How about this – if the quran is the word of god, why doesn’t the vast majority of the world’s population believe it? It’s a completely dumb line of reasoning, that only an islam-impaired brain could find convincing.

      That aside, I do not worship 3 gods, I worship one god who makes himself known to his creation via his three persons. Simple – not like your bizarro allah, whose 99 personalities are not outlined doctrinally in the biblical scriptures, nor even mentioned once, and who is so distant from his creation that he has to rely on his creation to get his messages across.

      The shia admit that there is a flaw in this concept of god – but they don’t know what to do about it! LOL!!!

      Some shia believe that the demon/angel jibberwocky corrupted the “word of your god” and diverted some revelations away from the other prophet, Ali. That is certainly more doctrinally reasonable since there is precedent for angels to rebel and not do god’s bidding and since your god is limp and impotently stuck in the prison of his own transcendence there is not much he can do about it.

      Even worse, it implies the need for more prophets, since the quran has been corrupted.

      That aside, one essence means one, not three, sharing one essence means one, not three. It is not as hard as you think.

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    • Burhanuddin1

      “You insist that the Holy Spirit is one distinct person because Biblical language shows the Holy Spirit has the attributes of a single person, but deny the one God is one distinct person when the same thing is true of the one true God?

      Seriously? Of course not. You are a trolling joke.”

      LOL!!

      Please stop trying to think – you are embarrassing yourself and it is a little too late now for your sharia-shackled brain.

      ANd you cannot possibly know if your god is the one true god since his word comes through a demon/angel thing whose intentions and actions have been questioned even by muslims.

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    • D
      “Please stop trying to think – you are embarrassing yourself …”

      Yawn. No answer as I thought.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Burhan

      Answer to what? Your question made no sense.

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    • ….god *who* makes *himself* known to *his*creation via *his* *three* persons.”.!!??..how many persons altogether? …there is at least for dvine persons in this bizzare concept of ‘oneness’ in your banana statement!…or maybe you’re at modalist!?..😨

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    • omar

      “….god *who* makes *himself* known to *his*creation via *his* *three* persons.”.!!??..how many persons altogether? …there is at least for dvine persons in this bizzare concept of ‘oneness’ in your banana statement!…or maybe you’re at modalist!?..😨”

      Say wut? I can see that you are completely avoiding the fact that you guys are appealing to scriptures that do not support islamic religious practice or doctrine.

      Even worse, your scriptures were revealed by a being who was indistinguishable from a demon, and whose intentions are questioned even by muslims. But worst of all is the fact that despite claims that the tawheed is simple, not a single one of you is capable of expressing a coherent idea of who or what your god is.

      He has to rely on his creation to get his message through to us and he is so transcendent that you never actually know if his nature is good or evil – even your prophet couldn’t tell god’s angels apart from a demon.

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  6. IT should also be pointed out that Rabbinic judaism makes huge deviations from scripture and looks to the oral tradition – man-made derivations from and interpolations on scripture – for its authority. Singer is on shaky ground here!

    It is why jesus would have condemned islamic religious pretensions which also are based largely on man-made interpolations and derivations for its authority. Jesus would have condemned all the minute traditions, rituals, self-conscious and self-righteous outward proclamations of piety, strict adherence to man-made laws and exegesis over the spirit of the law.

    Also, Singer is a lousy debater – he got completely owned and buried by Dr Michael Brown (and apparently Singer has been in a sulk ever since and refuses to debate his supposed friend again) and in his debate with Craig Evans, all he did was talk about being bullied by Puerto Ricans when he was a kid and how this made him hostile to christianity.

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  7. “one essence means one, not three, sharing one essence means one, not three. It is not as hard as you think.”

    no i get it one essence shared amongst 3 personal distinct devine gods!.. easy!☺

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  8. Hi
    Does not the Koran mention Jesus as a word from Allah AND a spirit from Allah?

    So what do we have here? Allah his word and his spirit…and all Allah right

    Can any Muslim please explain if Allah’s word is separate from him or his spirit is it separate from him.

    How is Jesus a word and a spirit from Allah at the same time, can a Muslim please explain.

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    • Which other “words” and “spirits” are in the same category as Jesus?

      There must be others because of the use of the indefinite article. Mohammed, or Allah, assumes that the hearers or readers are familiar with the terms but no attempt is made to explain what is meant by contextualizing or comparing them with other “words” and “spirits”. Another example of intentional vagueness or vacuity in the Koran?.

      To say that a human being is a word and a spirit without any context is a bit of incoherent nonsense is it not?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Madmanna
      Thanks.
      I’m still waiting for an answer from a Muslim and I also want to find out what the title “Messiah” means to a Muslim

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    • Hi
      Can any Muslims out there please explain what it means when the Koran says…Jesus is a word from Allah…a spirit from Allah?

      Is any other prophet described in this way even down to Muhammad also.

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  9. “If the Trinity doctrine is true, why don’t Jews believe it and why isn’t it CLEARLY outlined in scripture?”

    Who cares? “Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them–do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

    “but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God…'”

    Yes, indeed. Finally, they acknowledged truth. He had done nothing wrong. Not a thing. If He had, they surely would have delighted in accusing him–in which case they would have not been concerned with Him at all. He was for sure a man, as they said and He did more than declare Himself to be GOD. If that was all, they would have known He was simply mad. But, you see, He did among them, right in front of them, continuously, the things which no man had done.

    Aye, matey, without a doubt they knew precisely who He was: an unending thorn in their conscience and a mirror, their worst enemy because seeing they could not see and hearing they could not hear. He punctured their motives and puss popped out. Unashamed, undaunted, He whispered, if you want to know the Father, come to Me, I and the Father are One.

    Hear the silence howling

    Demons are loud, demanding, shrieking things and abhor quietness

    There shall be a crying out, a cacophony of terrifying noise, they shall weep and weep and go on weeping and wailing and flailing and gnashing their teeth and they will keep gnashing their teeth “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth…” Why dear God, why? “when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.”

    Bless you for you make clear the way to teach Jesus Christ, Him risen from the dead, risen from the dead, eager to dine with all those who receive Him, who take hold of Him as GOD ALMIGHTY.

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  10. Hi DefendChrist,

    Nice to see you back posting comments here again.

    God bless.

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  11. Flying away from atheism, Flew realizes a lifetime of terrible errors.

    “almost entirely because of the DNA investigations. What I think the DNA material has done is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together. It’s the enormous complexity of the number of elements and the enormous subtlety of the ways they work together. The meeting of these two parts at the right time by chance is simply minute. It is all a matter of the enormous complexity by which the results were achieved, which looked to me like the work of intelligence’ (p. 75).” debate in 2004, at New York University, he declared that he ‘now accepted the existence of a God’ (p. 74). In that debate, he said that he believed that the origin of life points to a creative Intelligence,

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  12. “The mainstream scholarly view is that the Gospels are anonymous works, written in a different language than that of Jesus, in distant lands, after a substantial gap of time, by unknown persons, compiling, redacting, and inventing various traditions, in order to provide a narrative of Christianity’s central figure–Jesus Christ–to confirm the faith of their communities.”

    That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched–this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

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  13. “The meeting of these two parts at the right time by chance is simply minute. It is all a matter of the enormous complexity by which the results were achieved, which looked to me like the work of intelligence…”

    I don’t mean to sound like a wise guy, but that’s what we’ve been saying all along.

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    • For that, hoards of scientists and other “elite” members of our society have trounced on us for being ignorant, fundamentalist, bible thumping, red-neck hicks, stupid, backwards, fools, etc.

      Like

Trackbacks

  1. O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him! Mary replies, a word from him, what do you mean a word from him ???!!!, have you got all your marbles mate!!!!! | Badmanna's Blog

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