The biggest name in Christianity today speaks the truth here. Respect for that.

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Categories: Christianity, Islam, Quotation, Wisdom

66 replies

  1. Quite sad you have to appeal to the words of the false Pope of Catholicism to validate your religion

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    • You defend Christ by attacking the Vicar of Christ. LOL

      Liked by 1 person

    • Sorry mate there is no such thing as “vicar of Christ” where do you see Pope in the scriptures?

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    • in the Catholic tradition that is one of his titles. Ironic: defend Christ attacks the Vicar of Christ 😉

      Btw I’m not your ‘mate’

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    • Nothing to do with “validation”, just fair and honest truth. But you wouldn’t understand that, would you? 😉

      Liked by 2 people

    • Here’s some honest truth for you Faiz

      “The fact is, even if you were to stop bombing us, impriso- ning us, torturing us, vilifying us, and usurping our lands, we would continue to hate you because our pri- mary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam. Even if you were to pay jizyah and live under the authority of Islam in humiliation, we would continue to hate you. No doubt, we would stop fighting you then as we would stop fighting any disbelievers who enter into a covenant with us, but we would not stop hating you.
      What’s equally if not more important to understand is that we fight you, not simply to punish and deter you, but to bring you true freedom in this life and salvation in the Hereafter, freedom from being ensla- ved to your whims and desires as well as those of your clergy and legislatures, and salvation by worshiping your Creator alone and following His messenger. We fight you in order to bring you out from the darkness of disbelief and into the light of Islam”

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    • I’m not Catholic, but surely any proclamation that supports unity and peace and understanding is a worthwhile one, regardless of where it comes from?

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  2. defendchrist

    You said;
    Sorry mate there is no such thing as “vicar of Christ” where do you see Pope in the scriptures?

    I say;
    Where do you see “3 Persons 1 God”, “Trinity”, “God dead for our sins” etc.? You Christians will always preach what you do not do. That is sin and against Jesus Christ to preach what you do not do.

    Pope is a leader of Christians. If a someone with a Muslim or Middle Eastern name commits act of terrorism, you are quick to link him to Islam and all Muslims but now you are distancing yourself from Pope Francis because he is telling the truth.

    Thanks.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Intellect
      Where have you seen me link terrorism to Islam did I write that anywhere? The pope and his church most of what they teach is not even in the bible we are not a part of the Catholic Church and never will be.

      in my previous comments about Islam that they didn’t just walk into Spain peacefully, but with the sword, and I have never heard of Spanish armies attacking Arabia or the surrounding first.

      Father,Son and the Holy Ghost are the three personalities revealed in the bible this is so simple yet profound, I don’t have the ability or the insight to work out God to a T this is why some things are a mystery in the bible.

      According to the bible who rose Jesus from the dead?

      According to the bible who sends prophets into the world?

      According to the bible who created all things?

      There is my challenge to you but I will come back to you with my answers.

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    • three personalities!

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  3. Hi Paul
    For your information the head of the church is Jesus Christ…not the pope.

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  4. The pope seems like a nice enough bloke, but he is not an islamic scholar and does not speak arabic as far as I know. Should we take his opinion seriously?

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  5. D

    Pope is in the Vatican and the Vatican has experts in every religion just like the White House has experts in every religion. The experts tell them the truth. That’s why all leaders in this world keep saying there are violent verses in both Islam, Christianity and Judaism texts but Islam is not a violent religion.

    The Vatican as an entity and the White house, congress, senate, British Parliament etc. do consult experts in all matters but sometimes they will not follow the experts advice and will lie. Pope Francis is a man of God and therefore will not want to lie on this one like Nabeel, Wood and Sam Shamoun are doing without any expertise so that they will gain fame, recognition and riches from Christians who do not want the truth but like to here what they want to hear like the trash of Dr. Nabeel Quraish with his books full of contradictions, deceit and lies.

    Thanks.

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  6. correction:

    hear instead of here.

    Thanks.

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  7. Oh Lassie, you silly mutt. What does that prove? I am sure there are Christian extremists who have defended their violent acts.

    The difference here is that the Pope has made an honest statement, which uneducated morons like you cannot accept. The highest authority in Christendom has defended Islam from your idiotic lies, and you just can’t take that.

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    • Hi Faiz and Intellect
      On what basis are you calling the pope a man of God? I’m sure in your belief in Allah and the words of the Koran that this man is an unbeliever and worthy of death, or we call him a kafir.

      He believes in the trinity and Muhammad would have had him killed, why are you speaking love and respect for this man.

      Faiz you say he making an honest statement here are your Koran verses about Kafir which I’m sure the pope is one…according to your religion.

      They [Kafirs] who dispute the signs [Koran verses] of Allah without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers [Muslims]. So Allah seals up every arrogant, disdainful heart.

      h8.24 It is not permissible to give zakat [charity] to a Kafir, or to someone whom one is obliged to support such as a wife or family member.

      Here are a few of the Koran references: A Kafir can be mocked–

      83:34 On that day the faithful will mock the Kafirs, while they sit on bridal couches and watch them. Should not the Kafirs be paid back for what they did?

      A Kafir can be beheaded—

      47:4 When you encounter the Kafirs on the battlefield, cut off their heads until you have thoroughly defeated them and then take the prisoners and tie them up firmly.

      A Kafir can be plotted against—

      86:15 They plot and scheme against you [Mohammed], and I plot and scheme against them. Therefore, deal calmly with the Kafirs and leave them alone for a while.

      A Kafir can be terrorized—

      8:12 Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the Kafirs’ hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”

      A Muslim is not the friend of a Kafir—

      3:28 Believers should not take Kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah’s protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear Him for all will return to Him.

      A Kafir is evil—

      23:97 And say: Oh my Lord! I seek refuge with You from the suggestions of the evil ones [Kafirs]. And I seek refuge with you, my Lord, from their presence.

      Is this the Koran or something I’m reading?

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  8. DefendChrist,

    I never said the Pope was a “man of God”. I said that he is stating the simple truth that people like you cannot accept. He is the highest authority in Christianity and the leader of over 1 billion Christians, and you cannot stand that he is talking about Islam in a positive way.

    As for your Quran quoting session (which is actually just something you copied from the Internet), it only proves my point further. You haven’t actually done any research on Islam. You haven’t even read the Quran, so don’t pretend like you have. If you had bothered to do some honest research, free of your inherent bias, you would have seen that the Quran refers to fighting against only those unbelievers (kafirs) who have fought against Muslims.

    Now, of course, the Quran warns all unbelievers, even those who have not harmed Muslims, that if they do not believe in Islam, then they are doomed to hell. But that is nothing unusual. The last time I checked, the Bible says the same thing about non-Christians. So, what is your problem?

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    • Yeah Faiz
      I copied from an article I wasn’t claiming it my own work, but the question is are these scriptures for now?
      I still trying to find out what Spanish armies attacked the Muslims in Arabia who were living in peace that made them retaliate and go all the way through Africa up into Spain.

      Can you name me a battle where Muslims fought the Spanish nowhere near Spain? And that it was the Spanish that attacked the Muslims I believe it was a POPE that put the crusades in motion

      Do you not remember the Umayyad conquest in the 8th century? We are talking about Muslims conquering this country killing beheading people.

      Please don’t give this rubbish about peace and being friendly etc

      So I know a lot more about Islam than you think maybe not the Koran but from a historical point of view I do.

      So please give one battle where the Spanish attacked the Muslims IN THEIR country.

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    • In Islamic Spain. The so called Spanish attacked Muslims there in the Iberian peninsular.

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    • Christians practiced “holy” war long before Islam ever appeared.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Burhanuddin1
      You are missing the point I’m discussing Christian and Muslim holy wars, what I am discussing is the lie of peaceful Islam and the fact that the Koran fight when you have been attacked.

      So my point is can any Muslim show me where Spanish soldiers marched over to Mecca or Medina or anywhere in that area to attack Muslims?

      And if not what are the Muslims doing conquering Spain? What I want to know is what are the Muslims doing at the Iberian peninsular?

      What is Faiz as I was actually responding to him as he was making comments about me not knowing things and pretending I would him to respond.

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    • Btw Spain did not exist then. The Muslims were bringing Islamic rule ie God’s justice to the Iberian peninsular. This was liberating for many but you will ignore that fact.

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    • “And if not what are the Muslims doing conquering Spain?”

      Fighting terrorism

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  9. “The so called Spanish attacked Muslims there in the Iberian peninsular.”
    Let us not forget that the Muslims were the original attackers here. Conquering what was not theirs and spreading the message of their religion with the sword. All of Spain surrendered to them in a couple of years.
    All of Spain? No, in the north, the kingdom of Asturia was still free (sounds a bit like “Asterix”, doesn’t it). A young prince who had had enough, fought the Moors in the mountains of his country – and won in 722 AD, just a decade or so after the Muslim conquest. That was the start of the reconquista (reconquest) of Spain which would last for another 770 years. Now, that’s what I call stamina.

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    • Actually the history is murky. Some say the Muslims were invited in. But they were much more pluralist and tolerant than the Christians ever were, which was very good news for the Jewish population,

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  10. The Umayyads rather seized the opportunity during a civil war. I don’t think the Spaniards wished to become second class citizens (dhimmis) in their own country. No Umayyadi was invited to Asturia, that is for sure.

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  11. DefendChrist,

    The only “rubbish” is coming from you. Thank you for admitting that you know nothing about the Quran except for your cut and paste research. Maybe you should read the Quran before making ludicrous assertions about it, eh?

    As for your deflection on to the Muslim conquest of the Iberian peninsula, that does not necessarily prove anything about what the Quran says, does it? You are making the same argument that bigots normally make, which is that if some Muslims did something bad, then it means that Islam is bad. But, if we use that argument against Christianity, you would say that it would be unfair to lump all Christians with the bad ones. Isn’t that right?

    But as it turns out, your little summary of the Muslim conquest of Iberia also shows a lack of knowledge of the actual history. You can only provide a sensationalist version of the history, because you are arguing from emotion rather than reason.

    First, let us look at the history of Iberia before the Muslims arrived. It was not a “free” country, as Marcus has claimed. Rather, the reality is that the people were warring with each other, often on religious grounds. The Arians and Catholics were often at each others throats:

    “At various times in the 5th and 6th centuries, Italy is largely Arian under the Ostrogoths; Spain is Arian under the Visigoths; and north Africa is Arian under the Vandals.

    The heresy is eliminated in most of these areas by the energetic campaigning of an orthodox emperor in Constantinople, Justinian. But another barbarian group, the Lombards, bring it back to north Italy in the late 6th century. In Visigothic Spain an Arian king is converted to orthodoxy in the 6th century and actively persecutes Arians from 589, but traces of the heresy remain until after the Muslims conquer in 711. By then the story has run for four centuries. Constantine, at Nicaea in 325, would not have approved.”

    http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac61

    Now, as for the Muslim conquest:

    “In 711 one faction, in an internal squabble of this kind, invites an Arab commander to lend support. An Arab army crosses from Africa.

    The short journey across the water from Africa, bringing an army into Spain in 711, begins the final thrust of Arab expansionism in the west. In a frequently repeated pattern of history the invaders, invited to assist one side in a quarrel, rapidly take control and suppress both squabbling parties. Within a few months the Arabs drive the Visigoths from their capital at Toledo.”

    http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?ParagraphID=ecj

    So, as it turns out, it was a Christian faction that sought the help of the Moors. Each side was looking out for its own interests. It was as much a political struggle as it was a religious one. But people like you tend to oversimplify the complexities of history.

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  12. I do not know anyone who wants to be a second class citizen in their own country. That is why the Umayyads were not welcome in Asturia. Unfortunately they had to be taught that lesson the hard way.

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    • MarcusCalpurniusPiso

      Those people were second class citizens in their own country not by the Umayyads but by Christians. Read your history very well.

      Thanks.

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    • MarcusCalpurniusPiso

      I will not take you far. If Christians conquered any country, the make the indigenous and native population second class citizens like the native Americans, Australians, Africans etc.

      Christians in Egypt, Iraq, Iran, etc. in Muslim majority countries including Jews are never made second class citizens. Ask an Egyptian Christian or Iranian Jew if he is a second class citizen from centuries till today. The war in those countries caused by Evangelical Christians to spread Christianity has backfired on Christians today. It is not Islam but Christianity.

      Ask Catholics when they were persecuted in the USA by other Christians and when the protestants where persecuted by Catholics.

      Proof
      http://www.history.com/topics/reformation

      Along with the religious consequences of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation came deep and lasting political changes. Northern Europe’s new religious and political freedoms came at a great cost, with decades of rebellions, wars and bloody persecutions. The Thirty Years’ War alone may have cost Germany 40 percent of its population

      Thanks,

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    • Well that’s funny, Marcus, because the last time I checked, the Visigoths were not native to Iberia. They were Germanic tribesmen who conquered the region and then persecuted Catholics. Then, they converted to Catholicism and persecuted the Arians. No wonder they were always at war with each other. Unfortunately, they had to be taught that lesson the hard way.

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    • Hi Faiz
      No one is answering my original question, I have been on many occasions that the Muslims only attacked in retaliation according to the Koran.

      I would like to know when were the Muslims attacked in their own land by the different peoples in Spain, and what were they conquering Spain.

      80 years or so the Muslims are kicking down Spain’s front door…to conquer so let’s not get away from the original question.

      And intellect in his ignorance thinks everyone with a bible is a Christian or everyone in the West are Christians…making people second class citizens.

      Stick to answering the original question.

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  13. No Faiz, you are actually wrong there. The Visigoths were actually natives, having lived on the peninsula for 200 years or so in the kingdom they founded there. Anyway, God must have been on Don Pelayo’s side that day in 722 AD. It took another 770 years to fulfill the Reconquista, but the Visigoths prevailed in the end, didn’t they.

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    • Um, no. You are quite wrong. Maybe you should pick up a history book once in a while.

      I don’t think you understand what a “native” is. The “Native” Americans were natives in North America. They were subsequently conquered and oppressed by the Europeans. The descendants of these Europeans (“Americans”) are not native to the land. The descendants of the “Native Americans” are. Do you see the difference?

      The Visigoths were not “native” to Iberia. They were Germanic tribesmen who invaded lands that were not theirs. They invaded Greece, Italy and Spain. They were invaders, and they were not native to the lands they pillaged and conquered. Here is what we know about the Visigoths:

      “Alaric I tried to unite the Visigoths and Romans by having Visigoth governors introduce Roman customs and culture in their regions. While he was moderately successful, Alaric was better suited as a warrior than an administrator and, in 396 CE, led his forces through the Balkans, pillaging as they went, down into Greece. He then turned back to Italy and, after a number of engagements with the faltering Roman forces, sacked Rome in 410 CE.

      He died soon after and his successor, Athaulf, led the Visigoths in the conquest of Gaul, establishing the Visigothic Kingdom of Toulouse. Following Athaulf, King Wallia expanded the kingdom and his successor, Euric, enlarged it even further to include a large part of Spain. The Visigoths at this time still practiced Arian Christianity while the inhabitants of Spain were Nicene Christians (recognized today as Catholics). According to some sources, Euric carried out intense persecutions of the Nicene Christians while, according to others, he merely targeted high ranking church officials whom he deemed problematic. After his death, Alaric II became king and, at this time (c. 485 CE) Clovis of the Franks accepted Nicene Christianity and sought to drive the Arian Visigoths from the region” (http://www.ancient.eu/visigoth/).

      Was God with the Visigoths as they went around Europe pillaging and conquering? Was He with them as they first persecuted the Catholics, and then after converting to Catholicism, persecuted the Arians.

      It seems to me that you and “defendchrist” want to sensationalize the history of the Visigoths to fit your ludicrous view that they were just “victims”. The reality is that the Visigoths were just one group that was involved in the power struggle that engulfed Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire.

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    • Hi Faiz
      I’m still waiting to hear from you what the Muslims were doing all the way over in Spain from Mecca?
      I was talking about the text in the Koran where Muslims say they only attack if they have been attacked…when we’re attacked by people in Spain?

      What were they doing going up in Spain?

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    • Faiz, Maybe you should pick up a dictionary once in a while? According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word “native” comes from the Latin “nativus”, which in turn comes from nāscor ‎(“to be born”) +‎ -īvus. In a broad sense it is relating to birthplace or country of origin. I.e. a native is a person born in a specified place, region, or country.
      http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/125303?rskey=pp0CJb&result=1&isAdvanced=false#eid
      In that sense the Visigoths were definitely natives to the Iberian peninsula in the seven hundreds, after living there for more than 200 years, speaking the local language, mixing with the others there.
      The Goths have perhaps had a bad press. Not so in Spain however, partly due to their success against the Umayyads. In fact all Spanish royalty after Don Pelayo claimed ancestral links to the Visigoths. His Asturia expanded over the centuries through royal marriages and reconquest into Cantabria, Galicia, Leon, Castilia, Catalonia etc and laid the foundation to modern Spain.

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  14. Defendchrist,

    You still don’t seem to get it. Your “original” question has already been answered. As I said before, you want to conflate the actions of some Muslims with Islam but don’t like it when the same is done with Christians and Christianity. Your double standards can be easily seen.

    The Umayyads were not always great practitioners of Islam. But, their conquests were also nothing unusual for that time. Do you really think that if the Visigoths in Iberia were not busy fighting each other, they would not have eventually tried to invade North Africa?

    But I also pointed out that your knowledge of the Muslim invasion of Iberia is pathetic and ignores the larger context. It does not surprise me that you have ignored the fact that the Visigoths had conquered Iberia and persecuted those who did not follow their Arian religion. Then they converted to Catholicism and persecuted anyone who was not a Catholic. The Visigoths were a tribal group that went around conquering and pillaging. Why don’t you explain their actions in light of their Christian faith? Your self-righteous hypocrisy is showing.

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    • Faiz, Maybe you should pick up a dictionary once in a while? According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word “native” comes from the Latin “nativus”, which in turn comes from nāscor ‎(“to be born”) +‎ -īvus. In a broad sense it is relating to birthplace or country of origin. I.e. a native is a person born in a specified place, region, or country.
      http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/125303?rskey=pp0CJb&result=1&isAdvanced=false#eid
      In that sense the Visigoths were definitely natives to the Iberian peninsula in the seven hundreds, after living there for more than 200 years, speaking the local language, mixing with the others there.
      The Goths have perhaps had a bad press. Not so in Spain however, partly due to their success against the Umayyads. In fact all Spanish royalty after Don Pelayo claimed ancestral links to the Visigoths. His Asturia expanded over the centuries through royal marriages and reconquest into Cantabria, Galicia, Leon, Castilia, Catalonia etc and laid the foundation to modern Spain.

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  15. Marcus,

    The Visigoths were invaders. What don’t you get about that? They were not originally native to Iberia. They conquered the land and then settled there. Why don’t you criticize that?

    I also notice that you haven’t answered my question. Was God with the Visigoths when they pillaged Iberia and persecuted anyone who didn’t share their Arian religion? Was He with them when they converted to Catholicism and persecuted the Arians? Why are you avoiding answering?

    It seems to me that you just want to find any way to bash Muslims. Your pathetic attempt at rewriting history only exposes your bias against anything related to Islam.

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  16. Faiz: No one denies that the Visigoths invaded “Hispania” from the beginning. However, the Visigoths made up for their invasion in the eyes of their subjects by playing an important role in repelling Islamic attacks on Europe.

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    • Marcus, that must be the most nonsensical defense of the Visigoths I have heard. You certainly seem to know a lot about how “their subjects” felt, given that you know next to nothing about the Visigoths’ dark history.

      I frankly doubt that “their subjects” had many nice things to say about them, even after the Muslim conquest. I doubt that the Catholics were very fond of them when they were Arians, and I doubt that the Arians were very fond of them when they converted to Catholicism. You are just blowing hot air and hypocritically trying to defend their subjugation of Iberia, all because of your inherent bias against Muslims.

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  17. Faiz, it is a fact that Don Pelayo gained huge respect after his victory over the Umayyads, and so did his descendants, when they, with the help of their loyal subjects, also defeated the Almoravids and the Almohads and laid the foundation to modern Spain. His tomb attracts countless visitors still to this day.

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    • You are moving the goal post, Marcus. How “respected” were the Visigoths when they invaded the peninsula, do you think? How “respected” were they when they were first persecuting the Catholics, and then the Arians? If the Visigoths were so “respected”, why were they constantly fighting against the Basques?

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  18. Those visitors seem grateful for some reason. Maybe it is because they realize how close their ancestors were to end up like the Byzantines?

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  19. It is perhaps not surprising that many have doubts about the claim that Islam is a harmless and peaceful religion. After all, Europe was under the constant threat of Islamic invasion during a period of 1000 years… The Byzantines perished eventually after holding out for 800 (!) years. But thanks to for instance the Visigoths (at Covadonga 722), the Franks ( at Tours 732), and the Austrians (at Vienna 1529 & 1683), the threat could be removed and Europe become what it is today.

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    • MarcrusCalpurniusPiso

      When the Muslims ruled part of Europe, no one is under constant threat in Europe but rather a flourish Europe on the Muslim side but the dark ages on the Christian side. The other Europeans came to learn from the Muslim side.

      BBC-British Broadcasting Corporation

      Islamic Spain was a multi-cultural mix of Muslims, Christians and Jews. It brought a degree of civilisation to Europe that matched the heights of the Roman Empire and the Italian Renaissance.

      Proof;

      1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain_1.shtml

      2. https://www.scribd.com/document/18443934/Al-Andalus-The-World-of-Jews-Christians-and-Muslims-in-Spain

      The Christian Europe continue to persecute any one who does not believe in Christianity until they were fought and freedom of religion was forced on them(Christians in Europe).

      Proof:

      The History Channel

      http://www.history.com/topics/reformation
      ————-
      Along with the religious consequences of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation came deep and lasting political changes. Northern Europe’s new religious and political freedoms came at a great cost, with decades of rebellions, wars and bloody persecutions. The Thirty Years’ War alone may have cost Germany 40 percent of its population.
      ————-

      The Christians brought their intolerance to the America’s and persecuted the Jews and refuse their(Jews) ship from entering into USA when they Jews were fleeing from Europe to escape persecution by Christians. The Christians persecuted themselves i.e. Catholics, Protestants, Mormons etc. Until the Christians were beaten once again and freedom of religion slapped on them(Christians) by force.

      Thanks.

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  20. Excellent points brother Intellect.

    Notice how Marcus has continued to avoid answering my questions. He hypocritically defends Europeans, making them look like they were victims, while remaining silent about European atrocities.

    It is obvious the guy is just another brainwashed European who has to whitewash the history of his people in order to demonize the “other”. Funny how Europeans always seem to forget their own history. What’s funnier is how they forget that while Europe was languishing in the Dark Ages, Islamic civilization was prospering and thriving. Had it not been for the Islamic world, people like Marcus might still be taking a bath once a month! LOL!

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    • “Had it not been for the Islamic world, people like Marcus might still be taking a bath once a month! LOL!”

      I’m thankful for Muhammad- he taught me how to wipe my backside with stones. Had it not been for him and Islam, who knows where I would be now. Mashallah

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  21. Faiz: The article is about the peacefulness of Islam – stick to the subject. Historically, Europe has had a bad experience of Islamic peacefulness.

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    • I am sticking to the subject. You’re the one who went off on tangents. I explained that the Quran does not allow violence against innocent people. I also explained that just because some Muslims do something bad, it does not mean Islam is the cause.

      But the issue of European hypocrisy is linked to this subject. Europeans were killing each other, and yes, they were also invading non-European lands long before the colonial era. The Byzantine empire is a perfect example. They were very much hated by people in Asia and Africa. It’s no wonder that most people welcomed the Muslim armies and supported them on many occasions.

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  22. LOL Lassie, yeah you should be thankful that God sent the blessed Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to the world, because it He had not, you would be living like your ancestors!

    Here is how one western historian describes the influence of Islamic civilization on Europe:

    “Five centuries after the Moorish physicians of Spain had treated disease by the rational principles of medicine, surgery, and hygiene, Europe still adhered to the archaic conceptions of barbaric ignorance; to the belief that all illness was a manifestation of divine displeasure; to the possession by evil spirits; to the delusive expedients of priestly artifice,—the exhibition of relics, the muttering of texts, the performance of exorcisms” (History of the Moorish Empire, Vol. 3, p. 522).

    And, according to an article in Salon:

    “Christianity turns out to be the only great world religion — great in the sense of widespread and influential — that had no teaching or interest in hygiene. In the early years of the church, the holier you were, the less you wanted to be clean. Cleanliness was kind of a luxury, like food, drink and sex, because cleanliness was comfortable and attractive. The holier you were — and this really applied to monks and hermits and saints — the less you would wash. And the more you smelled, the closer to God people thought you were” (http://www.salon.com/2007/11/30/dirt_on_clean/).

    So yeah, be thankful. If it wasn’t for Islam, you would still be living in a European dirt hole! 😉

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    • Hi Faiz
      Please reveal the works that were taken out of the libraries of Alexandria and Constantinople and taken back to the house of wisdom in Bagdad and translated into Arabic around 750ad

      Again Muslims trying to claim all the works of science etc etc.

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    • Fail

      Yawn.

      Your arguments are like saying that the Neanderthals contributed to the space program because they were able to make fire. There were many civilizations that contributed to the sum total of human knowledge, some more that islam, some less.

      but in the big picture, islam wants to drag the world back to the dark ages so that no one can question the faith’s obviously man-made tenets.

      Boasting that islam was advanced several centuries ago is dumb even for you hairy munchkin. These days there are places where islamic superstition surpasses the ignorance of the christian middle ages.

      LOL!!!

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  23. D

    You said;
    but in the big picture, islam wants to drag the world back to the dark ages so that no one can question the faith’s obviously man-made tenets.

    Boasting that islam was advanced several centuries ago is dumb even for you hairy munchkin. These days there are places where islamic superstition surpasses the ignorance of the christian middle ages.

    LOL!!!

    I say;
    Like these days Christians like you supports nudity, sex, strip dress and exposing private parts of German volley ball players like primitive Amazonians in the Amazon Jungle who have never seen an aircraft before. Against well civilized Egyptian volley ball players who are well dressed and covered their private parts well just like Jesus Christ and his mother will accept. Against your support of primitive nudity in the Amazon jungle. You see that Islam is more civilized than Christianity?

    You like watching the buttocks, breasts, hips, waist, of the German volley ball players brainwashed by playboy and multi billion porn Idustry in the west to think it is civilized to watch all those and end up in strip club getting drunk and taking a prostitute and commit sin like Pastor Jimmy Swaggart, Eddie Lee Long and the Church Fathers.

    Thanks.

    Like

    • Intellect

      That is the most awesome comment I have ever seen on the internet!

      Like

    • Intellect

      Let me ask you this; you are among several muslims on this site who have stated that sin is purely physical. That is, there is no sin of thought and it is only through acting on sinful thoughts do we actually commit sin.

      What then is the sin that I have committed if I have looked at volleyball players in this way (which ı don’t)? Whatever I have done would be purely internal to me and, thus, not sinful in islam.

      It raises the question concerning the hijab. I have heard muslims state that they are caused to sin by women not being covered – what sin are they then committing? And if women not wearing coverings merely makes muslim men only think about them in a lustful way, then according to you, no sin has been committed.

      Like

  24. D

    Looking at a German volley ball players nakedness is a sin not thought. Seeing the nakedness of a woman and continue to enjoy it is a sin not thought. Islam advices “lower your gaze” and it means after unintentionally seeing the nakedness of a man or woman take your eyes off it. The first unintentional gaze is forgiven and not a sin but when you continue to look at it, it is sin.

    It is automatic when a man sees the nakedness of a woman unless he is sick, he is going to be physically attracted and the first unintentional gaze is forgiven and not a sin but if he continues to gaze it is a sin. It is not thought but physical attraction.

    It is like watching porn, or some nude and sex scenes in films and musical video clips and it is automatic attractions and sometimes arousal to some and it is a physical attraction not thoughts. It is sin.

    The German volley ball players can only help people to end up in strip club. get drunk and have prostitute like Pastor Jimmy Swaggart, Eddie Lee Long and some Church Fathers. Islam says no to the German strip volley ball players brainwashed by playboy and porn industry who twist this uncivilized Amazon forest primitive nudity as civilized. Jesus and his mother will not support playboy.

    Women and men covering themselves like Jesus Christ and his mother depicted in the Bible no matter the weather is the way to go and that is hijab and not uncivilized Amazonian jungle primitiveness supported by D and Christians brainwashed by the nude and sex industry in the west forgetting Jesus Christ and his mother.

    Thanks.

    Like

  25. Defendchrist said:

    “Hi Faiz
    Please reveal the works that were taken out of the libraries of Alexandria and Constantinople and taken back to the house of wisdom in Bagdad and translated into Arabic around 750ad

    Again Muslims trying to claim all the works of science etc etc.”

    When did I try to “claim all the works of science”? Your straw man does not serve as a particular good rebuttal to the historical fact that Europe benefited greatly from its contact with the Islamic world.

    Like

  26. LOL Fido! No one said that other civilizations didn’t make contributions to human knowledge. My point was that while Europe was a dirt hole in the Dark Ages, Islamic civilization was prospering. European civilization owes a lot to the Eastern cultures, including the Islamic world, India and China.

    So, you rabid missionary dogs of hell should definitely be thankful. Be a good boy and count your blessings. 😉

    Like

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