Free will. Br Paul and an Atheist have a discussion. Speakers Corner

The atheist is none other than the author of Why, As an Atheist, I Am a Karaite published on Blogging Theology yesterday.

Advertisements


Categories: Atheism, God, Philosophy, Speakers Corner

10 replies

  1. Let me try to get this straight.

    In the process of making a choice about a certain matter, one can think about its significance, run it through their moral and rational systems, weigh the pros and cons, deliberate it, take the opinions of others into consideration, come to a decision, review their decision in light of new information, and finally act on it or not. They are aware they have consciously experienced each of these steps of decision-making.

    But when it comes to how that sits with their world view, all of a sudden they need to deny it all?! Ok.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Paul, your defense of “free-will” just does not seem to square with this verse (and many more but I will just put up one)

    “And We did not send any messenger except in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.” Surah 14:4

    How do you square that with your belief in free will?

    Qadr (predestination) is one of the 6 pillars of belief in Islam, but “free will” is not one of the six.

    Like

    • Ken,
      The Islamic belief in Qadr, does not preclude free will. Islam teaches that in order for us to freely perform in the test of life, Allah has given us free will to lead our lives as we wish, but that the outcome of each of our actions is governed by the will of God. If God does not will for something to take place, it will not happen no matter how hard we try. And if He wills for something to occur, it will transpire no matter what we do to stop it. An individual has free will and power to choose, but since God created time and space he possess prior knowledge of what will happen in every actual or potential scenario.

      Liked by 2 people

    • “The Islamic belief in Qadr, does not preclude free will.”

      It sure seems to.

      “If God does not will for something to take place, it will not happen no matter how hard we try.”

      That goes against free will. You just proved my point.

      Like

    • Ken,
      As usual you misunderstand Islamic belief.

      76:3 “We show him the way: whether he be grateful or ungrateful (rests on his will).”

      The word “whether” clearly implies choice.

      91:7-8 “By the Soul and the proportion and order given to it; and its enlightenment as to its wrong and its rights…”

      This means that God has established both paths, the good and the bad, leaving the choice to man’s soul. Hence the use of the conjunction “and” rather than “or”, as both paths are there together and at the same time to ensure that man has a choice. The following verse confirms this fact:

      91:9-10 “Truly he succeeds that purifies it, and he fails that corrupts it.”

      Liked by 3 people

    • Allah the Most High sends astray those who have chosen (out of free will) to reject His message. Surely Allah the Most High Know every outcome (Huwa Al ‘Aliim).

      Like

    • So Allah reacts to what humans do first; basing His action on the human’s action; rather than being the first cause and actor?

      seems contradictory to this:

      Narrated ‘Abdullah:
      Allah’s Apostle, the truthful and truly-inspired, said, “Each one of you collected in the womb of his mother for forty days, and then turns into a clot for an equal period (of forty days) and turns into a piece of flesh for a similar period (of forty days) and then Allah sends an angel and orders him to write four things, i.e., his provision, his age, and whether he will be of the wretched or the blessed (in the Hereafter). Then the soul is breathed into him. And by Allah, a person among you (or a man) may do deeds of the people of the Fire till there is only a cubit or an arm-breadth distance between him and the Fire, but then that writing (which Allah has ordered the angel to write) precedes, and he does the deeds of the people of Paradise and enters it; and a man may do the deeds of the people of Paradise till there is only a cubit or two between him and Paradise, and then that writing precedes and he does the deeds of the people of the Fire and enters it.” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 77, Number 593)

      Like

    • With the name of Allah.

      Allah the Most High knows everything. He knows everything that happens. Everything that His creation would/will take (out of their free will) before they happen. This perfect knowledge was written before it happen as the hadith tells us. It is possible because Allah the All Knowing does not need to wait until something actually happen to know what is going on.

      Human still have their own free will and choice, Allah the Most High simply knew what choice in life you are going to take.

      Like

  3. @ Ken:

    According to the Qur’an, Allah’s mere message of truth to the insincere towards Him is going to lead them astray.

    “And whenever a surah is revealed, there are among the hypocrites those who say, “Which of you has this increased faith?” As for those who believed, it has increased them in faith, while they are rejoicing.
    But as for those in whose hearts is disease, it has [only] increased them in evil [in addition] to their evil. And they will have died while they are disbelievers.”
    (9:124-125)

    See also (5:64) and (5:68).

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: