The Bible and the Qur’an

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Categories: Bible, Christianity, Islam, Quran

33 replies

  1. “You have for example the Ayah that compares Jesus and Adam. There are those who may say that Jesus must have been God (Son of God) because he had no father. He had a woman who was his mother, but there was no human father. It was God that gave him life, so he must have been God’s son. The Qur’an reminds the Christian in one short sentence to remember Adam – who was his father ? – and in fact, who was his mother ? He did not have a father either and in fact he did not have a mother, but what does that make him?”

    LOL!

    False equivalence and a strawman argument, and a false analogy – allah fails at logic. And the argument is not overwhelmingly conclusive as one would expect of a god.

    This is your evidence that the quran is false.

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  2. God formed Adam from the dust that God created. Jesus always was.

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    • Colossians 1:15

      He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

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    • “God formed Adam from the dust that God created. Jesus always was.”

      are you saying that adam had no mother and father but god had a mother and was dependant on her?
      remember , you worship fully god and fully man and both are united and both were dependant on mary.

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    • The Word Can Mean A Number Of Different Things
      The Greek word prototokos, which is translated as firstborn, can refer to different things. It could refer either to something or someone that is first in order of time, such as a firstborn child, or it could refer to someone who is preeminent in rank. Or it could refer to someone who was both firstborn and preeminent in rank. It all depends upon the context.

      David, The Youngest Son, Was Called The Firstborn
      The psalmist gives a description of David as being the firstborn. The Lord said of him.

      I will also appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth (Psalm 89:27).
      In this example the term firstborn obviously speaks of preeminence in rank. David was preeminent among the kings of Israel. However he was not the oldest, or firstborn, in his family. David was in fact the youngest. Therefore in this context, the idea of firstborn among the kings has the idea of preeminence and does not have the idea of time.

      It Has The Idea Of Preeminence In The Book Of Colossians

      In the passage in Colossians the idea of Jesus as firstborn means that He is preeminent over creation not that He is a created being. This can be seen from the verses that follow.

      For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together (Colossians 1:16,17).
      Jesus is clearly called the Creator of all things. Consequently He could not have been the first thing created.

      Jesus Has Preeminence Over The Dead

      Jesus is also called the firstborn from the dead.

      And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth (Revelation 1:5).
      Jesus was the first person in time to come back from the dead never to die again. In addition, He is preeminent over the dead and death itself. Jesus said that He has the keys, or the authority, to death and Hades.

      I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades (Revelation 1:18).
      Jesus Is The Firstborn Over All Creation

      There is one final thing. Colossians 1:15 could be better translated in the following manner.

      And he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1:15).
      This translation emphasizes that Jesus is preeminent “over” His creation. This is to be preferred to the translation of “the firstborn of all creation” which gives the impression that Jesus is a created being.

      Summary

      Jesus is called the firstborn of all creation. This does not mean that He is a created being. The idea is that Jesus has preeminence over all creation.

      The word translated, “firstborn” can refer to preeminence in rank or preeminence in time. The context will determine. In the Psalms David is called the “firstborn” among the kings even though he was the youngest son of his father. In this context, firstborn can only refer to rank.

      Jesus is called the firstborn in the sense that He is over all of creation. This is made clear by the following verses in which it says that He is the Creator. Therefore a better translation would be that Jesus is the firstborn, “over all of creation.”

      Consequently there is no idea here of Jesus being someone who was created.

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    • Don Stewart, the Bible Explorer

      Blue Letter Bible

      Forgot to attribute the above

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    • was adam formed without needing a mother, but god formed himself needing a mother?

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    • Kenneth Wuest said:

      The Greek word implied two things, priority to all creation and sovereignty over all creation. In the first meaning we see the absolute pre-existence of the Logos. Since our Lord existed before all created things, He must be uncreated. Since He is uncreated, He is eternal. Since He is eternal, He is God. Since He is God, He cannot be one of the emanations from deity of which the Gnostic speaks … In the second meaning we see that He is the natural ruler, the acknowledged head of God’s household … He is Lord of creation.(12)R. M. Clark put it succinctly:

      “Prototokos”, first-born … The original meaning of the word is giving birth for the first time. Later it came to mean the first-born or first in rank. This is the N. T. meaning. In the N. T. the “-tokos” element is clearly implied only in Luke 2:7, in other places it tends to recede into the background.(16)

      The “Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament” by Fritz Reinecker and Cleon Rogers, distills down the scholastic information and says, “The word emphasizes the preexistence and uniqueness of Christ as well as His superiority over creation. The term does not indicate that Christ was a creation or a created being.”(17)

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    • Paul Williams

      “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation”

      Firstborn as in order of importance, not created.

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    • if he is the image, he is not the original. QED.

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    • If others referred to Christ in certain ways, that is their business.

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    • Paul Williams

      “if he is the image, he is not the original. QED”

      You are almost as bad as allah at reasoning logically. God’s image can be nothing less than divine.

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    • Not so Graham. Adam and Eve were made in Gods image. So are we. But we are not gods.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Paul

      Muslims are the image of their god – i.e. the anonymous man who wrote the quran and used faulty reasoning to argue his case.

      “Not so Graham. Adam and Eve were made in Gods image. So are we. But we are not gods.”

      Except that Colossians 16 goes on to say…..

      16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities

      Can you create all things?

      LOL.

      Besides, where in the quran does it say that jesus did not create all things?

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    • it says he was not divine just a man so obviously he did not create all things

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    • The self delusion runs deep in your veins.

      1 Colossians 16, clearly said that jesus created everything. What part of that are you having difficulty understanding?

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    • Jesus said he had a God. Agree?

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    • Paul

      Wait…are you changing the subject? The bible verses you quoted say that jesus created all things…no?

      And then tell me why allah made such sophomoric logical errors in his argument against jesus?

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    • “it says he was not divine just a man so obviously he did not create all things”

      He was born to a virgin and performed miracles and was the most highly regarded of the prophets according to the Qur’an. In the N.T. He is God.

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  3. ‘Consequently there is no idea here of Jesus being someone who was created.’

    Actually, that is precisely what it says! Firstborn = created before all else.

    ‘The Blue Letter Bible ministry and the BLB Institute hold to the historical, conservative Christian faith, which includes a firm belief in the inerrancy of Scripture.’

    ie promotes fundamentalist, uncritical apologetics. Not a reliable source.

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  4. “God’s image can be nothing less than divine.”

    But he has to be human. Oh dear …

    Liked by 1 person

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