P2 – Holy Facts! Brother Paul vs Christian

Here we discuss the nature of the resurrection appears of Jesus to the disciples. Sound starts at 0:28



Categories: Bible, Biblical scholarship, Christianity, God, Speakers Corner

24 replies

  1. Williams, you consider a nine year old girl to be a woman.

    Why should any non-Muslim take anything else you have to say seriously?

    Like

  2. it says in the “earliest creed”

    “raised on the 3rd day”

    in the english language , does that mean “appeared on the 3rd day” ?

    Like

  3. what “mind set” were the 500 unknowns in ? they all gathered for what reason?

    Liked by 1 person

  4. what does having a change of mind about crucified “messiah” prove? it proves nothing.
    pauls views changed therefore he did not hallucinate?

    Like

  5. did pauls satanic visionary experience really take place first time in his life?
    did he have any visions of yhwh when he was a practising jew?

    Like

  6. when richard carrier debated justin bass, carrier said why didn’t the sanhedrin convert, why some one who didn’t meet jesus converted at a later time and didn’t find craigs “minimal facts” appealing ?

    https://adversusapologetica.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/review-of-doubting-jesus-resurrection-what-happened-in-the-black-box/

    i read a few comments under the video and the atheist respondent said that when islam was weak and persecuted , most of the “sanhedrin” did convert .

    one can capitalize on christian missionary arguments and make a case of islam .

    the pagans, jews and christians went against everything they believed (refer back to crucified messiah and paul all of a sudden believing in one) and went through dramatic change and willingly gave up their lives for believing the belief that jesus was not crucified and one does not need jesus to ASK God.

    christians provide many good proofs for islam.

    Like

  7. Paul before I listen to Part 2 I’m hoping you can clafify some of your points made in part 1.

    I asked you which you have not answered on the other thread the following…

    “So what is your Islamic Unitarian Position?

    Is it that there is a Hierarchy of Gods, with Allah the un caused being at the top, and a bunch of lesser Gods including Hercules or even Jesus being a half man half God?

    Or

    Is it they’d called people and things Divine without really meaning they were Gods? Like in 21st century English, saying or calling something divine or giving it divine qualities is just a figure of speech?”

    The reason I ask is because you seem to either be making the argument that Unitarianim is basically some form of Paganism and or it is ok to give creatures divine attributes as long as you don’t mean they are THE God?

    Like

    • “Is it that there is a Hierarchy of Gods, with Allah the un caused being at the top, and a bunch of lesser Gods including Hercules or even Jesus being a half man half God?”

      even though the jews believed this filth (some of them) i.e a diety is able to divinize or make equal to himself finite created beings, i believe that even unitarian christians like buzzard are guilty of associating partners with God.

      even if one says x does not have UN LIMITED power or UN limited authority but still is given “divine power” to control the weather in a tiny spot, i sincerely believe this comes close to giving partners to God.

      i mean if one says God can give x some of His own abilities even though in limited sense than why isn’t this henotheism?

      Like

    • Mr H thank you for answering a question that was not asked of you. Perhaps you can answer the question that was asked of you several times on another thread?

      But since you did answer this question it seems that you are at odds with Paul Williams because he seemed to be taken back when the Phd Candidate pointed out how Paul’s position was a problem for Unitarianism. Paul responded “how…how is it a problem”.

      Like

  8. are you the christian terrorist robert wells?

    Liked by 1 person

    • LOL what is a Christian terrorist lol.

      And I’m actually a Muslims best friend. I want Muslims to have a Caliphate and practice Sharia law ON THEMSELVES.

      Wouldn’t that be great for you?

      Like

    • Paul so are you ever going to clarify your points on the first video….

      So what is your Islamic Unitarian Position?

      Is it that there is a Hierarchy of Gods, with Allah the un caused being at the top, and a bunch of lesser Gods including Hercules or even Jesus being a half man half God?

      Or

      Is it they’d called people and things Divine without really meaning they were Gods? Like in 21st century English, saying or calling something divine or giving it divine qualities is just a figure of speech?”

      The reason I ask is because you seem to either be making the argument that Unitarianim is basically some form of Paganism and or it is ok to give creatures divine attributes as long as you don’t mean they are THE God?

      Like

    • Kmac my position is the latter – as should be obvious

      Like

    • Kmac

      You said;
      Is it they’d called people and things Divine without really meaning they were Gods? Like in 21st century English, saying or calling something divine or giving it divine qualities is just a figure of speech?”
      The reason I ask is because you seem to either be making the argument that Unitarianim is basically some form of Paganism and or it is ok to give creatures divine attributes as long as you don’t mean they are THE God?

      I say;
      Humans can sometimes show mercy to a human and God shows Mercy to human. We respect and consider God Mercy as the ultimate.

      We cannot say because God shows Mercy and human shows mercy, so we are not going to use mercy which is one of the attributes of God to men.

      Christians sometimes named their children grace, mercy, Lord, Lordina, Saviour, Perfect, Redeemer etc. We all know the person named after with God attributes is not God but just a name.

      Muslims add Abdul which means slave in front of the name or attribute of God they might use as their name to show respect. Example is

      Abdul Razak
      Abdulai
      Abdul Aziz etc.

      So, Christians too give creatures divine attributes and they do not mean they are God. In my humble opinion, your question is not a question you must ask if you know the above which is common in all religions.

      Thanks.

      Like

    • Paul since you spent the first 5 min or so making the argument that Unitarianism had a hierarchy of divine like beings then it really wasn’t clear at all. Perhaps in the future you should not spend so much time making an argument that is not your position and instead focus on an argument that actually is your position.

      Now getting to your actual argument. So its ok for Muslims to say that Mohamed the Prophet of Islam is “DIVINE” as long as they don’t mean he is God?

      Its ok for Muslims to give Divine attributes like saying Mohamed is the creator or all things as long as you don’t mean he is God?

      Is it ok for Muslims to say to Mohamed the prophet of Islam “My Lord and my God if they don’t mean he is actually God?

      Like

    • Intellect your response as usualy has nothing to do with the subject we are talking about. Please watch the first video, and listen to the argument that Paul is making, and please actually read the question I asked and Paul’s response to it and my response just written to him.

      Then actually respond to the subject.

      Thank you

      Like

    • Kmac

      Christians will always want to append their thinking in Islam. It is just like the other day defendchrist asking Muslims “Where does Allah dwell”.
      One by one we humbly told defendchrist we do not use such words dwell, emanate, indwell, manifest, emptied, man, God Man etc. for God.

      The questions you asked is the understanding and belief of Christians and Muslims do not have that understandings and belief for Mohammed.

      What we said to you is that, sometimes human uses some attributes of God without necessarily thinking the usage means the person is God.

      Now, you have brought your Christian believe that we do not believe and trying to tie us to it. The answer is that Muslims do not use what you are asking. It still does not mean Jesus is God because He was given all powers.

      Muslims have were prophet Mohammed assured heaven to some people but Muslims never use this argument to mean Prophet Mohammed is God because it is forgone conclusion to any sane mind that Allah gives anything to a human.

      Christians will say Jesus forgive sins so he is God but Mohammed tells people their sins have been forgiven but no Muslim will claim because of that prophet Mohammed is God.

      So, your question just like defendchrist “where does Allah dwell” is baseless. We do not use some words like Father, divine etc. now because Christians have corrupted them. It does not mean it was wrong to use. No it was not wrong. I as a Muslim, I can call God my Father and there is nothing wrong with that as far as I do not think he gave birth to me but created me.

      Thanks.

      Like

    • Intellect please listen to Pauls argument and respond to that.

      Like

    • Intellect on second thought since Paul has gone radio silent on me perhaps you can actually respond to the topic.

      Please tell me is it ok for Muslims like yourself to do the following as Paul’s argument suggests?

      So its ok for Muslims to say that Mohamed the Prophet of Islam is “DIVINE” as long as they don’t mean he is God?

      Its ok for Muslims to give Divine attributes like saying Mohamed is the creator or all things as long as you don’t mean he is God?

      Is it ok for Muslims to say to Mohamed the prophet of Islam “My Lord and my God if they don’t mean he is actually God?

      Like

    • Kmac

      Is it ok for Christians such as yourself to say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are each a person and any person is a being and therefore counting 3 beings you worship without calling them 3 beings?

      Thanks.

      Like

    • Intellect stop committing shirk and answer the questions that were asked.

      So its ok for Muslims to say that Mohamed the Prophet of Islam is “DIVINE” as long as they don’t mean he is God?

      Its ok for Muslims to give Divine attributes like saying Mohamed is the creator or all things as long as you don’t mean he is God?

      Is it ok for Muslims to say to Mohamed the prophet of Islam “My Lord and my God if they don’t mean he is actually God?

      But why we are at it maybe you can answer this as well.
      You wrote… “are each a person and any person is a being and therefore counting 3 beings you worship”.

      My question is WHY? Why is ” any person is a being and therefore counting 3 beings”?

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: