The lunatic fringe of the Christian church implodes

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Categories: Christian extremism, Islamophobia

44 replies

  1. Wow, I have seen White’s videos about Shamoun and White is respectful and when he says harsh words they are based on empirical facts. Shamoun on the other hand, makes exagerrated accusations against White:

    ”White’s nonsense and deceptive tactics”

    ”A vile human being”

    To Shamoun, White is not that at all, the one who is a ”vile human being” and is ”nonsense and deceptive tactics” is YOU.

    I checked the way Shamoun talks about others and it is totally different from the way JESUS would. In his Facebook page Shamoun says:

    ” This is for James White. Make sure you take a photo of this caption as well. Instead of being so pathetic as to write posts talking about me, man up and talk to me directly, and accept my challenge to debate on Shariah and its implications, seeing that your mentor whom you drool all over is all for it. ”

    What a hypocrite, Shamoun calling himself a Christian,a follower of Jesus,and insulting the reasonable critiques of White. White talks like the real Jesus would, while Shamoun talks like the hypocrites Jesus condemned.

    If Shamoun were a REAL MAN, then he would NOT act like a spoiled teenager and ADMIT his defects, which are: bad manners, anger problems, STUPID PRIDE, hypocrisy, and betraying the high ideals of Jesus.

    I have NO doubt he will never change,he is obviously mentally deranged, but still normal enough to tell right from wrong. BUT.…………………what about White’s friends: Nabeel Qureshi,David Wood,a guy called Rogers,I think Anthony Rogers?

    They are obviously NORMAL, WHY don’t THEY publicly defend their friend James White?I am in TOTAL SHOCK. If I,and I repeat, if I, were one of them, I would almost instantly and publicly write an article or make a video defending a friend of mine who is viciously attacked( by a smear campaign) by someone I know. A REAL friend would do that.

    Instead those guys keep SILENT,what hypocrisy, and they call themselvers Christian? Jesus would CERTAINLY publicly defend his friends,after all,didn’t he say:
    ”There is no greater love than to give your life for a friend”?

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  2. Plus Shamoun is good at accusations but makes wild claims,from a minor incident, and makes claims for which he has little or no evidence.

    Shamoun claims White bullies other Christians, in reality, from what I know, White is always moderate and the accusations Shamoun makes about White are REALLY ONLY APPLICABLE to Shamoun,

    That is to say when ,Shamoun insults and bullies, it is ok, but if others do the same, or just disagree with him, then they are evil and insult and are bullies. That kind of DOUBLE STANDARDS is very typical of Shamoun,it shows a real inferiority complex, a real Christian like Jesus would not behave like that.Shamoun said this about White(which I do not at all believe):

    ”Call him out on his wicked behavior and smear campaigns, and get him to see how compromised he is when it comes to Islam, and therefore make him repent. The sad fact is that no one in his church will do so since White surrounds himself with yes men who are too afraid to even call him out for his behavior. Don’t believe me? Just go to White’s church and check it out for yourself.

    The fact is White is upset that people are not backing down from his bullying tactics. For years he has gotten away with abusing his position as the host of the DL show to viciously go after people, treating fellow brothers in the most ungracious manner. And now that I and others are giving him a taste of his own medicine, White is playing the innocent victim card in order to appeal to sympathy, which may work with his fan base, but doesn’t work with the rest of us who have seen how this bully has gone after our brothers and sisters in Christ.”

    As is obvious, when you read White and see his videos,he never does that, he is always using reason in his critiques. In that sense,he is like Sam Harris,the atheist,with who I disagree on some points, but he always uses logic, or tries to.

    Shamoun really believes the nonsense he says about White, in reality, all that stuff ONLY applies to he himself,Shamoun. What is REALLY disgusting is the cowardice and lack of empathy,lack of solidarity of Qureshi,Wood and Rogers, who are White’s friends. Would Jesus remain silent if his friends were being insulted and attacked?

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  3. Come on Paul thats a tautology for you. You think every christian is a lunatic!

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  4. James White has written an open letter to Shamoun. Shamoun answered back in Facebook saying White showed no repentance, the truth is, Shamoun showed no repentance of the lies he has said about White.

    Shamoun uses Goebbels’ tactic of “Lie,lie,lie, something remains”. Shamoun even says White shows himself as a victim but is not. White is a victim,of Shamoun’s lies and insults.

    I have respect for White now, in his open letter he says:

    http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2017/02/13/open-letter-sam-shamoun/

    “I think the last thing I saw from you was a link to an article you wrote about Abdullah Kunde. I didn’t look at it, nor did I comment on it, as far as I can recall. Someone told me you said I mistreated you about it, but I guess not commenting is “mistreating” you? In any case, we had been friends for years. Oh yes, I had to try to bring correction to you for your frequent outbursts

    and the fact that you often violate biblical standards of speech in your interactions with others, not only on PalTalk, but in your articles as well.

    I have often pointed out that no matter how much you know…………unless you behave and speak in love, you ruin your witness, your testimony. Or, as Scripture put it long ago, you <bbecome a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal (1 Cor. 13:1). Without that thing called love, “I am nothing” (13:2).

    Yes, you have your defense, your “I’m doing it like the prophets did it”

    ” I had not expected the scorched earth policy you’ve adopted, nor the wild-eyed falsehoods……………I note briefly that though I have been sent many screen shots of your personal attacks, insults, and yes, downright lies, about me, I have not had the desire to sit at my computer searching for your every comment, so I may have missed some invective-filled comment somewhere (indeed, I hope I have!).

    ……………I imagine the fact that Dr. Qadhi and I engaged in that discussion without the anger and malice that you demand must be part of all such encounters was next to impossible to bear, but was that counter-balanced by the realization that you will never, ever get to proclaim those truths in that context solely and only because you refuse to control your emotions and have the right attitude toward the task at hand?”

    “I just noticed that you are continuing your egregious falsehood (on FB) that I think Muhammad’s relationship with Aisha is just fine, part of your “White is an apologist for Islam” theme now (surely one of the most absurd themes anyone has ever come up with, and one that the Muslims observing this must surely find most humorous).

    Your misrepresentation of my comments, which I noted on the Dividing Line recently (as Morey had picked up the false accusation from you)

    , only continues the destruction of your own credibility in the minds of all fair-minded individuals who would take the time to listen to what I actually said.……………..

    Oh, well, White is a vile person and an apostate for even suggesting it! Your words will be weighed by the One who knows the hearts, Sam……………Sometime over the past day or so you posted the following, and I quote:

    “In case folks are wondering why I referred to White’s defense of Islam and Shariah loving Muslims like his mentor Qadhi a Jihad for Islam, it is because of his nasty shot at me, labeling what I did in calling him out for his nasty, unchristlike behavior towards fellow Christians and his compromise with Islam a crusade!

    Being a vile human being, White knows that the term crusade is a pejorative term among Muslims, since it evokes the memory of the Muslim wars with the Crusaders. White’s choice of words is deliberately calculated to get his Muslim fan base to run to his side seeing how he is supposedly adorning the gospel with grace and beauty for the purpose of reaching Muslims (which is a nice way of trying to justify his compromise with the truth of the Gospel and the example of the Lord Jesus and his blessed Apostles by his willingness to bend over backwards to appease his mentor and other Muslims), while vilifying me even further in the eyes of his Muslim mentor Qadhi and the others.”

    Sam, did you have to work up the rage and anger that fills these words, or does it just come naturally now? I mean, I guess I could have used “jihad” instead of “crusade,” or maybe just “campaign,” but I doubt it would have made any difference, for you are intent upon reading every word in the worst possible way, attributing to me motivations that you are projecting upon me out of a blind anger that you cannot even seem to see (or, you can, and are working very hard at ignoring the conviction in your heart for the dishonesty it entails).

    First, I think it is time for you to drop the pretense that you have simply “called me out” for allegedly being “nasty” to fellow believers.

    It has become a joke given your behavior. Every rational person knows you have treated me a thousand times worse than anyone I have ever criticized, so it would be good for you to put that broken banjo aside and admit it was always a cover anyway.

    Second, if you wish to pretend a tweet to a non-muslim was somehow a coded insult because I used the term “crusade,” I can’t stop you, but it is silly out here in the world where the rest of us do not live our days in a wild-eyed fit of anger. All the ludicrous theories you have produced about my being an apologist for Islam, cravenly seeking Yasir Qadhi’s approval, etc., are only evidence of how far, and how fast, you have fallen into gross personal deception, nothing more.

    Third, you are quite correct, Sam. I am a vile human being. So are you. That’s one of the most basic tenets of the gospel. But I will go beyond that (knowing your intent was not theological, but again, the venting of an anger utterly inappropriate for any person involved in ministry): I need to apologize to you. I was a poor friend. I far too easily overlooked your “I’m such a stinker” comments when you had just engaged in some kind of dishonest behavior,

    chumming the waters, so to speak, or had indulged your regular penchant for insult and opprobrium in writing an article. I accepted, to some extent anyway, your “I’m an Assyrian, it is our way” excuse. That was wrong of me, and I apologize.

    I should have held you to a Christian standard of conduct, Assyrian or not, Sam or not, especially in the realm of ministry. I gave in to the “us vs. them” mentality far too easily, and I failed you in that way. I should have called you to repentance far more often than I did. I should have pressed you on church membership and having elders looking at what you were doing in ministry. The lack of that much needed control has been devastating to you. So, yes, I’m a vile human being, just not for the reasons you are now promoting in your attempt to destroy this ministry and my work.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Dr. White is correct and Shamoun is wrong. I tried to admonish Sam S. privately by email a few years ago (2014); but he would not listen. Then recently you guys saw here where we “got into it” here on your blog about his sinful anger and behavior.

      It is amazing to me that he (Sam Shamoun) or anyone else thinks that his behavior and sinful anger is ok.

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    • “It is amazing to me that he (Sam Shamoun) or anyone else thinks that his behavior and sinful anger is ok”

      Sam has many enthusiastic Christian followers – visit his Facebook and see. They are committed born again Christians just like you.

      Are you now saying they are not Christians?

      Liked by 1 person

  5. I would not go that far, no.

    I am not saying that they are not Christians.

    But it is amazing to me that so many of his followers agree with him. Yes, I have seen it.

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  6. Good question. I don’t know. I guess they don’t see it as sinful or they don’t know much about the details; and most are just going by their anger that Dr. White let Dr. Qadhi speak in a church (but it was not on a Sunday or worship / prayer service, and everybody knew a head of time is was a dialogue) and said that Isis is not Islamic at all; and Dr. White did not immediately challenge him on that issue.

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    • None of them are claiming that they are without sin (your quote of I John 1:8-10); and to be fair, even Sam admits his problem with anger and pride, etc. (from what I can tell)

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    • The Bible suggests they might not be Christians at all:

      Everyone who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

      1 John 3

      Liked by 1 person

    • These spirit filled evangelicals don’t just continually sin but passionately promote sinful behaviour. I’m sure John would see them as children of the devil (as I do).

      Liked by 1 person

    • What about insisting on opinions that have been thoroughly refuted as facts?
      As you demonstrate again and again. E.g. “all scripture” you consider “scripture” is “God breathed”. That’s OK with you? Amazing.

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  7. Do you think an honest exegesis of that text in 1 John 3 means a Christian has to be sinless?

    That actually contradicts the other passage you quoted, 1 John 1:8-10.

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    • that’s what the passage says.. very clear and simple.

      Liked by 1 person

    • According to what was preached to me, God cannot be in the presence of sin. Wonder how those preachers then claim God is present within them? Sounds fishy, no pun.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Unbelievers in hell are suffering in the presence of God in His wrath. Revelation 14:10 – “in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb” (Jesus Christ is the Lamb) They are suffering under the holy justice of the wrath of God.

      When people say “God cannot be in the presence of sin” – what they mean is that God cannot be in the presence of sin with approval of it. But God knows all, sees all; and has hot wrath and anger against all sin.

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  8. I am amazed that you think that.

    The key has to be in the continuous present tense of the verbs there in 1 John 3. It means one who constantly keeps on sinning and does not care and does not have sorrow or remorse or repentance, etc.

    Even Christians have bad habits of sins, that they repeat, but that repetition is broken up by periods of repentance and victory.

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    • “Even Christians have bad habits of sins, that they repeat, but that repetition is broken up by periods of repentance and victory.” Same as it ever was. Born again fail.

      Liked by 1 person

    • “It means one who constantly keeps on sinning and does not care and does not have sorrow or remorse or repentance, etc.”

      A perfect description of Sam’s behaviour over many years.

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  9. being born again does guarantee a sinless life.

    That is the whole point of the first section that Paul W. quoted – 1 John 1:8-10. See also 1 John 2:1-2

    But their should be growth and repentance and deeper levels of change.

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  10. “Because you have to take…” (Romans 7:14-25 and 1 John 1:8-10 along with 1 John 3:6-9, in order to get a balanced and proper interpretation)

    Paul “Bilal” Williams wrote:

    No I do not.

    You are free to do that; but you demonstrate a hostility to seeking to understand how Christians have always understood how to interpret the Scriptures. After immediate context and within a book ( both 1 John 1 and 3 are by the same author, so one has to remember that when trying to understand what he is saying.)

    A theologically consistent interpretation looks at all of the Scriptures in a harmonized way for it’s final result.

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    • “A theologically consistent interpretation looks at all of the Scriptures in a harmonized way for it’s final result.” As Jehovas witnesses do.

      Liked by 1 person

    • “Christians have always understood how to interpret the Scriptures.”…illogical statement. It must have taken centuries for such a consensus to evolve.

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    • Christians have always radically disagreed about important matters of faith

      Liked by 1 person

    • On this specific issue, there is pretty much wide historical agreement, that
      1. the new birth does not make one sinless.
      2. I John 1:8-10 and 3:6-9 cannot be interpreted in a way to contradict one another.
      3. Scholars recognize the present tense used in 1 John 3:6-9 in context is a present continuous usage.

      So, my statement was not illogical at all.

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    • Ken I am applying the standard critical approach to the texts that is employed by numerous Christian scholars (such as New Testament scholar Larry Hurtado).

      In this historical approach John is looked at separately from other writers. It is certainly not assumed that they all say the same thing about Jesus or the Law, or anything else.

      Your desire to harmonise the diverse texts of the NT is one approach amongst many used by responsible Christian readers.

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    • Apples and oranges. You are talking about the Gospel of John vs. Synoptics and applying those issues to the theology of sin and sanctification between Romans 7 and 1 John 1 and 3. The theology of sin in a Christian’s life in those verses has nothing to do with the principles that scholars like Hurtado use when comparing Synoptics to Gospel of John and “historical Jesus” issues.

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