One of these American Christians “Expects” to be Killed by Muslims!

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Two American Christians talking to Muslims and getting different reactions

Muslims need to be aware of how the “Christian Persecution Complex” (CPC) can get in the way of fruitful dialogue with Christians.

A tale of two American Christians

In this video the American Christian missionary, Jay Smith, has lapped up the persecution narrative and self-radicalised himself about Muslims so much so that he proclaims he “expects” to be killed by Muslims one day.

When one has that type of mindset they will never be able to have a meaningful dialogue or relationship with a Muslim. The dialogue will always be a pretext for the Christian suffering from CPC  to use the interaction with the Muslim to bolster their CPC. This may come in the form of subtle condescension or offensive polemics to provoke a reaction or an emotion from the Muslim.

For this Christian, Muslims feeling resentment or hatred towards and verbally abusing him is seen as “persecution”.

On Bible verses teaching the followers of Jesus will be hated (such as Matthew 10:22 and 24:9), pastor Bob Beeman says “It seems to give Christians the opportunity to act stupid and justify it”

“…Many times when we do stupid things, do stupid things, when we antagonise people around us and when we act in any other way but lovingly to those around us and they respond like human beings do and get upset with us, we say, well, the Bible says I will be persecuted and you know it’s just [that] I’m I’ being persecuted for the Lord. No folks, many times you’re being persecuted because you’re acting stupid”

On the other hand this other American Christian was able to conduct a meaningful and polite dialogue with a Muslim which viewers commended him for.

Comments commending the American Christian chatting with a Muslim speaker, Hashim, at Speakers Corner in London:

I appreciate that he is listening and not interrupting unlike some crazy Christians at the same time, putting forward his Christian view point across without any hostility…

I enjoyed this discussion a lot. The American man seems like a nice genuine sincere person who actually listens and can tell he will reflect and research his own scripture and beliefs. I hope he sees the truth and light that is Islam. God bless

Good Christian man.

first time i seen a christian listen

Putting all this down to CPC or the lack of it is simplistic but I’d hazard the guess that CPC really doesn’t help Christian-Muslim dialogue. Well, actually it does help break the dialogue down and increasing division. Prof. Francesca Stavrakopoulou is right, Christians in the West are not being “persecuted”.

 

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Categories: Islam

27 replies

  1. Paul what do you think of this Muslim in Australia telling the truth about the threat of Islam.

    Like

    • This kind of cherry picking is something that only happens against Islam. There are hundreds and thousands of scholars/academics who condemn violence etc,but people like you will only quote the one out of the thousands that has a different view. You then somehow relate that one man’s view to ‘True Islam’ or ‘Secret of Islam’. This also recently happened with the scholar who believed the earth was flat,.

      Like

    • hashimkhanzada wrote…

      “This kind of cherry picking is something that only happens against Islam. There are hundreds and thousands of scholars/academics who condemn violence etc”

      My response: Did you watch the video because we have several Muslims condemning the violence in Islam.

      Like

    • Of Course Muslims “Condemn the violence” What sensible person wouldn’t?

      The question I have is – who is funding these alarmist Imaams? Maybe we should see their bank accounts?

      Like

    • This isn’t alarmist. There are parts of Sydney and melbourne that are already like this- heavily populated by Muslims and very unwelcoming to the kaffir. It has got so bad with organised crime in these areas that Sydney police now have a task force specifically for middle eastern crime.

      Like

    • Paulus,
      ..and the rest of the Police force is for crimes committed by Christian Australians.

      Like

  2. Well, considering that 9/10 top persecution nations are Islamic, it seems somewhat justified and factual.

    Meanwhile Paulposts nonsense things about the west being to blame for Islams problems.

    Who really has a persecution complex?

    Like

    • Paulus don’t you find it amazing that I post a video where you have Muslims condeming the violence and Muslims on this blog who say they condemn the violence either say its “Alarmist” or that we are cherry picking lol.

      Kind of doesn’t say much for their alleged “Condemning the violence”

      Like

    • Paulus do you get the feeling if one of our hero’s was to be “slain” by a Muslim the response from Paul Williams and others on this blog would be something like.

      “We Muslims condemn all violence against innocnets… I do not condone but I can understand… any connection between this murder and Islam is just alarmist nonsense.

      Like

    • American Lives Matter,

      One if your heroes killed by Muslims? I doubt any Muslim is going to try and kill Superman, Spider-Man or Batman.

      Your heroes are safe..well safe from Muslims not entirely sure what the Joker et al are planning for them.

      Like

  3. The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom ~ By Candida Moss

    Description of book on Amazon:
    “In The Myth of Persecution, Candida Moss, a leading expert on early Christianity, reveals how the early church exaggerated, invented, and forged stories of Christian martyrs and how the dangerous legacy of a martyrdom complex is employed today to silence dissent and galvanize a new generation of culture warriors.

    According to cherished church tradition and popular belief, before the Emperor Constantine made Christianity legal in the fourth century, early Christians were systematically persecuted by a brutal Roman Empire intent on their destruction. As the story goes, vast numbers of believers were thrown to the lions, tortured, or burned alive because they refused to renounce Christ. These saints, Christianity’s inspirational heroes, are still venerated today.

    Moss, however, exposes that the “Age of Martyrs” is a fiction—there was no sustained 300-year-long effort by the Romans to persecute Christians. Instead, these stories were pious exaggerations; highly stylized rewritings of Jewish, Greek, and Roman noble death traditions; and even forgeries designed to marginalize heretics, inspire the faithful, and fund churches.

    The traditional story of persecution is still taught in Sunday school classes, celebrated in sermons, and employed by church leaders, politicians, and media pundits who insist that Christians were—and always will be—persecuted by a hostile, secular world. Moss urges modern Christians to abandon the conspiratorial assumption that the world is out to get Christians and, rather, embrace the consolation, moral instruction, and spiritual guidance that these martyrdom stories provide.”

    “The Myth of Persecution”: Early Christians weren’t persecuted
    http://www.salon.com/2013/02/24/the_myth_of_persecution_early_christians_werent_persecuted/

    The bitter tears of the American Christian supermajority
    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/3/christians-persecutioncomplex.html
    Quotes from the above article: “The persecution of Christians is the historical equivalent of a false memory”…….Such persecution mania is dangerous, writes Moss, because “martyrdom is easily adapted by the powerful to cast themselves as victims and justifying their polemical and vitriolic attacks on others,”

    It seems that Christians have used their own CPC as an excuse to justify the persecution of Judaism in the past, and Islam both in the past and now.

    Liked by 2 people

    • That book has been debunked many times over- besides, we are not talkkng about the early centuries after the Jesus was resurrected, we are talking about now. And 9/10 top persecution countries are Muslim. Why is that?

      Like

    • Paulus, tell me which country has killed more innocent Muslims than any other since 9/11?

      Like

    • @Paulus

      Because Christians in Muslim countries pose a threat to morality. They have alcohol, prostitution, music etc.. Look at Lebanon. It is the main country in the Arab world for pornography and prostitution. Half of the population is Christian and one quarter is Shiah.
      There wouldn’t been any problems if these Christian were pious and moral.

      Like

    • Ephraim Radner, a historical theologian and the author of First Things reviewed the book. He wrote that “according to Moss’s criteria…The rule is apparently to read skeptically the writings of the past, but not to doubt the imaginations of present-day scholars. The whole book, however, begs for the latter suspicion. Her framing chapters on the dishonesty and dangers of “persecution” claims by contemporary conservative political voices and religious leaders easily identify her bias.

      https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2013/05/from-the-may-first-things-ldquounmythical-martyrsrdquo

      In his review, N. Clayton Croy said: “Modern ideology drives Moss’s thesis more than ancient testimony, and the result is a distortion of history more severe than the caricature she wants to expose.”[8]

      https://www.bookreviews.org/pdf/9158_10095.pdf

      Moss even dismisses Tacitus’ history of Nero’s great Roman fire which he blamed on christians. Problem being that no expert roman historian wpuld support Moss’ extreme skepticism of the sources. This book is not academic- it is political, based on a modern liberal bias easily seen and sadly you Muslims just lap it up not realising how absurd her thesis is.

      Why not read experts on the topic instead?

      Like

    • Paul, you want to discuss politics and war when the topic is persecution? Careful, you might need to ban yourself.

      Face the facts.

      Like

    • “Look at Lebanon. It is the main country in the Arab world for pornography and prostitution.”

      How would a good “moral” Muslim like yourself know this? Lol

      Protestants only make up 1% of the population in Lebanon so your defence of persecution to me is horrendous and evil.

      Like

    • Paulus,
      nice copy and paste job of book reviews from Wikipedia. Why not read the book yourself first?

      Like

    • Paulus,
      Here is a review you neglected to copy and paste from Wikipedia:

      In The National Catholic Reporter, Maureen Daly said “In the first few pages of The Myth of Persecution, I had the feeling that I had fallen into an argument already at full boil…Moss, scholar of the early church and martyrs, contends persecution was rare and the duration brief. Why is this important? “The myth of Christian martyrdom is not only inaccurate; it has contributed to great violence and continues to support a view of the world in which we are under attack from our fellow human beings,” she writes. https://www.ncronline.org/books/2013/03/long-shadow-martyr-myth

      Like

    • “How would a good “moral” Muslim like yourself know this? Lol”

      Well, a good question. The reason why I know this is because I do moral policing. You can’t fight against something you don’t know. Just like the officers specialised on drugs know everything about drugs but they don’t do drugs themselves.

      Like

    • Paul wrote…

      “Paulus, tell me which country has killed more innocent Muslims than any other since 9/11?”

      My response thats easy the ISLAMIC state lol

      Like

    • Wrong. It is the Christian USA.

      US Has Killed More Than 20 Million People in 37 “Victim Nations” Since World War II

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051

      Iraq-U.S. War started in 2003 and has not been concluded

      Just as the end of the Cold War emboldened the U.S. to attack Iraq in 1991 so the attacks of September 11, 2001 laid the groundwork for the U.S. to launch the current war against Iraq. While in some other wars we learned much later about the lies that were used to deceive us, some of the deceptions that were used to get us into this war became known almost as soon as they were uttered. There were no weapons of mass destruction, we were not trying to promote democracy, we were not trying to save the Iraqi people from a dictator.

      The total number of Iraqi deaths that are a result of our current Iraq against Iraq War is 654,000, of which 600,000 are attributed to acts of violence, according to Johns Hopkins researchers. (1,2)

      Since these deaths are a result of the U.S. invasion, US leaders must accept responsibility for them.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Paul wrote…

      “The total number of Iraqi deaths that are a result of our current Iraq against Iraq War is 654,000, of which 600,000 are attributed to acts of violence,”

      My response: Who committed the acts of violence. Lets take a look

      ” In February 2006, the Sunni organization Al-Qaeda in Iraq bombed one of the holiest sites in Shi’a Islam – the al-Askari Mosque in Samarra. This set off a wave of Shi’a reprisals against Sunnis followed by Sunni counterattacks.[16] The conflict escalated over the next several months until by 2007, the National Intelligence Estimate described the situation as having elements of a civil war.[17] ”

      Hmmm and what exactly happened during this time, lets see…

      First the players…
      “A multitude of groups formed the Iraqi insurgency, which arose in a piecemeal fashion as a reaction to local events, notably the realisation of the U.S. military’s inability to control Iraq.[33] Beginning in 2005 the insurgent forces coalesced around several main factions, including the Islamic Army in Iraq and Ansar al-Sunna.[34] Religious justification was used to support the political actions of these groups, as well as a marked adherence to Salafism, branding those against the jihad as non-believers. This approach played a role in the rise of sectarian violence.[35] The U.S. military also believe that between 5-10% of insurgent forces are non-Iraqi Arabs.[33]”

      So where these US Christian soldiers NO they where SUNNI Muslims who used what religion to justify their action ohhh thats right SUNNI ISLAM.

      But there are more players…

      “Independent Shi’ite militias identified themselves around sectarian ideology and possessed various levels of influence and power. Some militias were founded in exile and returned to Iraq only after the toppling of Saddam Hussein, such as the Badr Organization. Others were created since the state collapse, the largest and most uniform of which was the Mahdi Army established by Moqtada al-Sadr and believed to have around 50,000 fighters.[33]”

      So who is this group where they CHRISTIAN Iraqi’s returning or Christian Militias NO… they where SHIA Muslims.

      So what exactly did they do…

      “Attacks on non-military and civilian targets began in earnest in August 2003 as an attempt to sow chaos and sectarian discord. Iraqi casualties increased over the next several years.”

      Who started attacking NON military targets was it the “Christian US Military”, NO it was the Sunni Muslim Insurgents. Why were they attacking non military targets to ” sow chaos and sectarian discord”

      But there’s more…

      “Bomb attacks aimed at civilians usually targeted crowded places such as marketplaces and mosques in Shi’ite cities and districts.[38][39] The bombings, which were sometimes co-ordinated, often inflicted extreme casualties.”

      “Since August 2003, suicide car bombs were increasingly used as weapons by Sunni militants, primarily al-Qaeda extremists. The car bombs, known in the military as vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices (VBIEDs), emerged as one of the militants’ most effective weapons, directed not only against civilian targets but also against Iraqi police stations and recruiting centers.

      These vehicle IEDs were often driven by the extremists from foreign Muslim countries with a history of militancy, such as Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Egypt, and Pakistan.”

      Ahh Islams stock and trade the Suicide bombing, so who was doing these Suicide bombings was it the “Christian US Military” as you claim. NO, it was SUNNI Militants, and where did these Militants come from the USA, or Europe, NO they came from Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Egypt, and Pakistan

      But theirs more.

      “Death squad-style killings in Iraq took place in a variety of ways. Kidnapping, followed by often extreme torture (such as drilling holes in people’s feet with drills[41]) and execution-style killings, sometimes public (in some cases, beheadings), emerged as another tactic. In some cases, tapes of the execution were distributed for propaganda purposes. The bodies were usually dumped on a roadside or in other places, several at a time. There were also several relatively large-scale massacres, like the Hay al Jihad massacre in which some 40 Sunnis were killed in a response to the car bombing which killed a dozen Shi’ites.

      The death squads were often disgruntled Shi’ites, including members of the security forces, who killed Sunnis to avenge the consequences of the insurgency against the Shi’ite-dominated government.[42]”

      So who made up the death squads was it “Christian US soldiers” as you claim. NO… It was Shia’s killing Sunni’s.

      And there’s MORE.

      “On 22 February 2006, a highly provocative explosion took place at the al-Askari Mosque in the Iraqi city of Samarra, one of the holiest sites in Shi’a Islam, believed to have been caused by a bomb planted by al-Qaeda in Iraq. Although no injuries occurred in the blast, the mosque was severely damaged and the bombing resulted in violence over the following days. Over 100 dead bodies with bullet holes were found on the next day, and at least 165 people are thought to have been killed. In the aftermath of this attack the U.S. military calculated that the average homicide rate in Baghdad tripled from 11 to 33 deaths per day”

      100 dead bodies, 33 murders a day all committed by who? MUSLIMS.

      And finally…

      “Dozens of Iraqi mosques were aftwerwards attacked or taken over by the sectarian forces. For example, a Sunni mosque was burnt in the southern Iraqi town of Haswa on 25 March 2007, in the revenge for the destruction of a Shia mosque in the town the previous day.[43] In several cases, Christian churches were also attacked by the extremists. Later, another al-Askari bombing took place in June 2007.

      Iraq’s Christian minority also became a target by Al Qaeda Sunnis because of conflicting theological ideas”

      So who destroyed the Mosques, if you guessed Muslims you guessed right.

      Yup Paul Muslims always kill Muslims more than the kuffar kill them, as a matter of fact I would say Muslims are the best at killing Muslims.

      Like

  4. “Well, a good question. The reason why I know this is because I do moral policing. ”

    This is fascinating! What exactly is moral policing? Do you believe, and enforce, your version of shariah upon non Muslims? Are you in Lebanon?

    Like

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