Abandoned by God, he asked “why?”

 

 

 

 

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Categories: Bible, Christianity, God

42 replies

  1. Preacherman tells me perfect human nature has to die to save humanity from being human…

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Dumb. It’s a citation from a messianic psalm, so it is precisely what one would expect from Jesus.

    Muslims have no appreciation for the seriousness of the wrath of God nor is their theology of sin cpnsistent with the Torah, psalms, prophets and Gospel. Muhammad is unlike the former prophets.

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    • So Jesus was reciting a psalm? OK. Assuming he meant it, why not address the question..

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    • That’s dumb even for you Lassie. We know it was a psalm but why did he recite it?

      Now que Lassie’s avoidance of answering the tough questions.

      Liked by 2 people

    • “We know it was a psalm but why did he recite it?”

      apparently sin causes this pagan flesh god to punish himself and then curse himself and then save himself from eternal damnation

      even with the view of being saved from eternal damnation in his mind ,he still cried like a baby

      “why have you forsaken me ? “

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    • > So Jesus was reciting a psalm? OK. Assuming he meant it, why not address the question.

      Paulus is addressing the question if you understanding the theology of the Torah, Prophets, Psalms and Gospel. I would add read the whole psalm and see where it ends. Jesus has the whole psalm in mind.

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    • “… so it is precisely what one would expect from Jesus.”

      John doesn’t expect it from his Jesus. Preacher man tells me it’s the same Jesus. Preacher man I don’t believe you.

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    • “Paulus is addressing the question if you understanding the theology of the Torah, Prophets, Psalms and Gospel.”

      There was no theology of a Pauline Gospel when Jesus allegedly said it.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Psalms 22 is NOT a messianic psalm.

      The person who said this “Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. I knew that You always hear Me”[John 11:41-42] cannot be who Psalms 22 is about.

      “Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish?My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,by night, but I find no rest”[Psalms 22:1-2]

      These two are clearly not the same. Psalms 22 is about someone whose prayers have been repeatedly rejected day and night, over and over again.

      Liked by 1 person

    • It’s a messianic psalm of vindication. Jesus was both messiah and vindicated. The psalm’s motif is central to Jewish and Christian thought. Muhammad, however, framed his theology entirely differently. He is alien to the former prophets

      Faiz.

      It’s cute that you think you have tough questions.

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    • faiz, in the psalms it does not say

      “ooh, look the narrator’s getting ripped apart… the Lord is my shepherd.”

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    • “so it is precisely what one would expect from Jesus.”

      From the “everlasting father”, sure.

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    • Haven’t you got wuduh or something else to do, rather than troll conversations?

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    • isn’t wudu better than eating flesh , blood and wounds?

      even imagining eating a wounded jew ?

      https://isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/2017/02/28/the-roots-of-the-eucharist-christianitys-oldest-ritual/

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    • Paulus you seem to forget any truth claim about your personal Jesus is also false at the same time.

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    • “Muslims have no appreciation for the seriousness of the wrath of God nor is their ”

      poor god, needs to transfers sins and pour on himself and then cry “why have you forsaken me?”
      then he punishes himself because he poured on himself.

      Liked by 1 person

    • “Muslims have no appreciation for the seriousness of the wrath of God nor is their ”

      neither did yhwh .

      in ezekiel god says he does not desire the death of the wicked. you change the words in ezekiel and think god desires the death of the righteous or god himself. you have no respect for your own bible.

      Liked by 1 person

    • “needs to transfers sins”

      Precisely. The doctrine of substitution comes from the Torah, zabur, prophets and the gospels. It is a thoroughly Jewish concept appropriated in Jesus completely.

      Islam, in comparison, contradicts the former prophets. Muhammad’s theology was alien to them. Ironically, however, there are still elements of substitution in the Islamic tradition so by condemning my God you do the same to yours.

      You guys really have no shame committing shirk. It’s almost as if you don’t care as long as you think you score some points in your dawah. Pathetic

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    • “The doctrine of substitution comes from the Torah, zabur, prophets and the gospels. It is a thoroughly Jewish concept appropriated in Jesus completely.”

      where does AMOS say that yhwh transfers SINS?
      look at the picture above, you really think amos would see that geezer in the picture as a levitical animal sacrifice ? yhwh would puke seeing that picture , he likes the sweet smell of fresh animal meet , not the battered body of jesus .

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  3. So far, the question has not been addressed. I advise christians to not provide the classic answers they usually preach in their churches.
    You’re talking with muslims here!
    It’s not enogh to say that Jesus was reciting psalms! What kind of answer is that? Why did Jesus recite that a portion specifically from the passage!?
    Did God abandon Jesus?
    If we read the whole passage in psalms, the problem is even bigger!

    Liked by 1 person

  4. 3 The Lord said to Satan,[a] “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns away from evil. He still persists in his integrity, although you incited me against him, to destroy him for no reason.”

    exemplar
    ɪɡˈzɛmplə,ɛɡˈzɛmplə/
    noun
    a person or thing serving as a typical example or appropriate model.

    fully god and fully man knew full well that he would save himself from eternal damnation yet he begs to be rescued from finite crucifixion and on the cross asks his team “why have you forsaken me”

    isn’t job a better exemplar for humanity ?

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    • He submits to the father’s will and cites a messianic psalm of vindication to demonstrate its fulfilment. You need to move vying shallow thinking and reasoning and understand the psalms usage in context and the overall motif.

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  5. Sorry. This reply is for Kev on the topic heading below. My post is not going through on that post, so pardon me for bringing it here. I thought to let the Christians know that what they accuse Islam, they have it worse in Christianity. I have to reply him at all cost.

    Hadith “Do Not Greet Jews… Force Them To Narrow Road…” Explained
    BY DISCOVER THE TRUTH on MAY 5, 2017 • ( 84 )
    New piece on a Hadith report that is often misinterpreted…

    Kev

    May 8, 2017 • 5:36 pm

    kmak

    That’s easy. Muhammad was acting on God’s command.

    All you have is mohammed’s word for that. The ancient hebrews had the benefit of seeing god’s presence during the exodus, and the light of god in the face of Moses. The patriarchs came face to face with the lord, and these appearances were often witnessed by many people.

    No one saw the beings that mohammed claimed were god, so there are no compelling reasons to think that his claims were true. Even worse, Genghis khan claimed that he was acting on the will of god – he killed millions of muslims.

    In short there is no reasonable evidence that mohammed was acting the orders of god.

    I say;
    What are you talking about? Is it the Jews “seeing God” or “seeing God’s presence”? Remember God cannot be seen? According to the Bible. Remember? Do you want verses?
    So, what are you talking about? Seeing God’s presence? Where is your proof and evidence that the Jews saw God presence?
    Is the golden calf the Jews were worshiping God’s presence to you? If the Jews had any God presence with them, will they be worshiping the golden calf? And God became angry with the Jews worshiping golden calf?

    I don’t think you have any proof and evidence that the Jews saw God’s presence. It could be satans presence that the Jews saw that led them to blaspheme God by worshiping the golden calf. Any idol worshiper like the voodoo priest can claim he saw the presence of God but it is actually the presence of satan. So Kev I am afraid you do not have any proof the Jews saw the presence of God.

    Another topic.
    Prophet Mohammed is role model of Muslims. Yes that is absolutely true. He fought his enemies?

    Kev, will you sit and let your enemy fight you without fighting back? It is a sin because Jesus said this;

    Luke 19:27

    New International Version

    But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.'”

    Kev, Jesus said you should kill your enemy and history shows that Christians have followed the example of Jesus by killing anyone who does not have the same ideology as theirs including killing their fellow Christians.
    I have been providing the history channel sources here.

    Jesus had commanded the killing of innocent babies and will come back and kill his enemies. Kev, is Jesus not your role model?

    Thanks.

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  6. “All you have is mohammed’s word for that. The ancient hebrews had the benefit of seeing god’s presence during the exodus, and the light of god in the face of Moses. The patriarchs came face to face with the lord, and these appearances were often witnessed by many people.”

    god showed his powerful presence
    god told the jews to stop screwing bulls
    god told the jews to stop idolatry
    god told the jews many do’s and don’t

    but poor old team of gods could not tell the jews to stop ripping out unborns from 0-9 months?

    did the group have a thing for ripping out unborns from pregnant ladies?

    how did moses kill 3 year olds? did he cut their necks?
    which part of the neck?
    did he put sword right in ?

    how were bellies open ?

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  7. “He submits to the father’s will and cites a messianic psalm of vindication to demonstrate its fulfilment.”

    he submits as a reluctant submitter, gets too tough for him while hanging off the cross and then he cries out “why have you forsaken me”
    after all, you guys believe all sins were punished on jesus, so i guess some leaked into his thinking and caused him to utter blasphemy on the cross.

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  8. Lassie barked:

    “It’s a messianic psalm of vindication. Jesus was both messiah and vindicated. The psalm’s motif is central to Jewish and Christian thought. Muhammad, however, framed his theology entirely differently. He is alien to the former prophets

    Faiz.

    It’s cute that you think you have tough questions.”

    LOL, you’re so adorable in your naivete, Lassie! Aww, such a cute little puppy…

    I find it amusing that you Christians want to suddenly pay attention to the context of the psalm, but when we point out the context of the so-called “prophecies” you knuckleheads claim refers to Jesus (like Hosea 11 or Isaiah 53), you dismiss it outright. So why is the context so important now?

    But even if we consider the context, it is still problematic. The psalmist was praying to God. Thus, if Jesus was referring to the psalm and its “vindication”, he was also praying to God. Thus, he cannot be God himself.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oh and by the way, Lassie, given your utter failure to answer my questions and the way you ran away from the Bani Qurayzah thread shows me that the tough questions bother you. In fact, all of your brethren have avoided those questions as well! 😉

      Liked by 1 person

    • I find it funny you are calling Australian gentile dog as “lassie”
      I think I know where you got it from? You got it from that verse which says “it is not right to take the children’s bread and cast to to little bitches”

      Yes, Christian women or errand girls need to come as bitches and slave of the children to be accepted.

      How degrading it is for Christian woman and her daughter to come to the children as bitches

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    • It is the Jews who say that shema was on their lips while they were getting butchered by the people. Why couldn’t jesus sing the shema and choose a text which make him accuse God of forsaking him???

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  9. “Thus, if Jesus was referring to the psalm and its “vindication”, he was also praying to God. Thus, he cannot be God himself.”

    This is dumb even for you. First, it fits perfectly within Christian and Jewish thought. We accept that Jesus prayed. It’s hardly the “slam dunk” you think it is. That is why we are trinitarians. Second, and probably most significant for you, is that according to Islamic scriptures Allah also prays. Ergo, according to you, Allah also cannot be God. Since you are a Unitarian who is Allah praying to?

    Qur’an 33:56—Verily, Allah and His angels pray for the prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him and salute him with a salutation!

    Another fine example of you falsifying your own religion hahaha.

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    • are you telling me that “fully god and fully man”
      or 1 person, 2 natures said “father into your hand i commend my spirit”

      do you know what this means ?

      lol

      quote :

      In this mizmor (psalm) King David is baring his emotions and moods as he communicates with G-d. He pours out the problems he is facing in his life. David tells G-d that he is confident that G-d will rescue him from his troubles. David describes his angst and agony as he suffers because rescue has not yet arrived, but he goes on to praise G-d for His goodness and kindness and states that he trusts G-d to rescue him. David concludes with a stirring call to his fellow Jews to love Hashem and to strengthen themselves in their devotion to Him.

      When David says “In Your hand I entrust my spirit; You have redeemed me, O L-rd, G-d of truth.” T’hillim / Psalm 31:5 (6 in Jewish bibles) he is confirming his trust in G-d just as we all trust G-d.

      end quote

      how come luke shows complete dependence on the father when he has his jesus say:

      “father, into your hands i commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

      where does one find that boastful declaration about being control of life and death in the last words before he dies?

      why would luke clip a line from the psalms and place it in jesus’ mouth if he knew about jesus’ power over life and death? why quote a line from the psalms which seem to be giving the idea of complete dependence on God?

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    • Paulus,
      Once again, as usual you dishonestly twist the Qur’an to misportray it as saying something which it does not say, in order to score a cheap polemical point.

      Qur’an 33:56 does not reflect Allay “praying” for or to anyone. The Ayat in question uses the word “Yusaluna” which is translated as meaning “His Graces/Honors/Blessing/Serenity/Mercy.”

      Here are six translations, none of which indicate that God prayed for or two anyone, but rather conferred or sent down his Graces/Honors/Blessing/Serenity/Mercy:

      Sahih International
      Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.

      Muhsin Khan
      Allah sends His Salat (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy, etc.) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive him). O you who believe! Send your Salat on (ask Allah to bless) him (Muhammad SAW), and (you should) greet (salute) him with the Islamic way of greeting (salutation i.e. AsSalamu ‘Alaikum).

      Pickthall
      Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation.

      Yusuf Ali
      Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.

      Shakir
      Surely Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who believe! call for (Divine) blessings on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation.

      Dr. Ghali
      Surely Allah and His Angels shower Serenity on the Prophet. O you who have believed, pray for (benediction on) him, and submit in full submission.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Sorry, meant to write “….or TO anyone” not “two.”

      I don’t want to confuse any Trinitarians with numerical words, Two, Three, etc. LOL.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Heath said:

    “I find it funny you are calling Australian gentile dog as “lassie”
    I think I know where you got it from? You got it from that verse which says “it is not right to take the children’s bread and cast to to little bitches””

    Yes!! It’s a little inside joke at the expense of our little gentile friend. 😉

    Like

  11. LOL, Lassie! It seems you already got exposed for your appalling ignorance of what the Quran actually says by brother Heath. You dig yourself into a bigger hole every time you open your mouth!

    It’s hilarious how every discussion about your Bible somehow “falsifies” Islam. Are you that desperate to malign Islam? Why don’t you be brave and admit that your Bible has been falsified many times already and that you have nothing to stand upon? Come on, be a good boy…

    It’s so cute how you think that Jewish and Christian theology are the same or even similar. Anyone who reads the Tanakh and the New Testament without your asinine Christian assumptions would see the exact opposite: Jewish theology is very different from Christian theology! Get over it, dude. Stop crying over spilled porridge.

    Here is the thing with your savior quoting Psalm 22. If he was referring to the part about “vindication”, then why didn’t he simply recite that part? Why did he instead recite the very first line about being forsaken?

    Also, there are problems with applying Psalm 22 to the Biblical Jesus. For one thing, the psalmist talked about the “bulls of Bashan”. Bashan is a region east of the Jordan river (http://biblehub.com/strongs/hebrew/1316.htm). But Jesus was crucified by the Romans, who came from nowhere near the region of the Jordan river.

    Also, the psalmist actually talks about being rescued from his enemies. Obviously, this did not happen with Jesus since he was eventually killed. So much for a “rescue”, eh?

    That is the context of the psalm. Usually, you Christians try to avoid the context like the plague but you decided that the context was important here. Unfortunately, looking at the context also backfires for you. Ouch! It must be frustrating to see your religion refuted from so many angles. Hahahaha!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Sorry, I meant to refer to brother Ibn Issam’s post about the Quran.

      Brother Heath also completely refuted Lassie’s pathetic and desperate attempts to align Jewish and Christian theology.

      Liked by 1 person

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