Loftus on Christians and the Bible

John Loftus, the former Christian teacher and author speaks to an obvious truth about the relationship between Christians and scripture.

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Categories: Islam

37 replies

  1. are muslims any better than that?

    Liked by 1 person

  2. That’s very obvious when we discuss with christians.

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  3. how many % muslims read quran in their language? I think jews are much better than any body else in religious knowledge. muslims memorize quran with out understanding. muslim nations get printed quran in their language just recently. first two bengali quran translations made by non muslims. one by hindu priest another one by christian missionary. most muslim nations have quran translations after they have bible translations. also western nations have quran translations before muslim nations have quran translations in thei language. we are not in good shape and we are not realazing this.

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    • “I think jews are much better than any body else in religious knowledge”
      No they are not. Very few Israelis are religious. Judaism has turned into a race.
      There was a guy walking around in Israel asking very basic questions about their faith and they just couldn’t respond to it.
      Muslims value the original Qur’an (meaning in Arabic) very highly. Though I do admit that we should have been quicker on our feet when it comes to translations.

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    • israeli jews are liberal type of people.religious jews are very highly informed about their version of their religion. religious muslims are not educated in authentic way. their knowledge came from israiliyat and stories and likes. many religious muslim residting to read quran in their language and they proud of it. even religious christian some way much better than religious muslims.

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    • But you said jews are much better than any body else in religious knowledge. Now you limit it to religious jews.
      And I don’t understand where the Israiliyat come into all of this? I’ve never seen Muslims engage in Israiliyat.

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    • atlas if some body dont care about his religion we dont have to calculate them. there are non religious people all over the world from every religious background. consider sabbath kipper jew vs juma muslims. I meet muslims all over world and disappointed. israiliyat mean religious info in traditional islamic books such as tafsirs, kisaul anbiya, etc. islamic literature full of these things and general population learn these things as real islam.we have to wake up. materialism deism and atheism spreading in muslim societies. if we put our head in soil then no problem.

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    • there is story atribbuted to mullah nasruddin. 1 man come to him complaining about another man mullah nasruddin says you are right. little later second man come and complaining about first man and mullah nasruddin says you are right. wife of mullah nasruddin hearing all these conversations and wandering.she asks to mullah nasruddin you say both men are rigiht how this can be? and mullah basruddin reply you are right to. all this conversation we all right.

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  4. The general state is not as good as expected as far as i can see, i mean most Muslims neglect the Quran nowadays, no time to read, not even trying to understand it and comprehend it’s wisdom…Muslims, this is a fascinating book and the Quran is one of the main reasons that personally makes me proud to be a Muslim so please try to give the Holy Quran a chance to share it’s wisdom with you my brethren, if you approach it with an open mind you’ll get hooked up…That Book also played a big role in saving me from polytheistic filth such as the doctrine of the Trinity…

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  5. quran 25:30 https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/25/30/default.htm this is true for yesterday today and for forever

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    • Is it talking about the kafirs or his the Muslims? Cus ‘my people’ might mean those among the pagan Arabs.

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    • that applies any body fits in.

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    • likewise q 2:101 and 3:187

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    • This verse is about disbelievers, yet muslims should take this verse as a warning to not imitate those who disbelieved. Muslims read Qur’an daily five times at least. In general, muslims complete reading Qur’an once each year at least.

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    • abdullah1234 every verses of quran speaking to everybody. like Q 9:30-31 there is no excuse. some muslims recite quran five times a day without understanding it. and most muslims never read quran even once in their all life. even religious muslims have this problem.

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    • abdullah 1234 I quote quran verse to imam he ask me what kind a verse is that? I give verse number then he tell me that contradict with hadith. our situation much worse than any body can imagine. quran 9:30-31 specially 31 is applicable to most muslims.

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    • Q 9:30-31 Are talking about Jews and Christians. Those that have taking their priests (and rabbis) as lords because they follow that which is not in the Scriptures. Why are you changing the meaning of those verses??? We can fall into the error like they did, sure. And we should be careful of that. But don’t say it’s talking about everyone cus it’s clearly not, it’s directed to jews and christians.

      Our scholars base their opinions on the Sunnah and Qur’an. When doing exegesis we always go back to what the Prophet said and did and what his companions said and did and also scholars that base their thinking and research on the actions of the Prophet and the companions. If you think that’s taking them as lords then I honestly don’t know what to tell you.

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    • Again, not true. If you know muslims who are like what you described, then you should advise them.

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    • atlas quran is very clear. first of all we muslims need to take lesson from quran.quranles islam is not islam.quranles muslim is not a muslim. god give jews christians mushriks munafiks as a example for as to avoid to become like them even without knowing it. today muslim umma fall in that categories. we can not just say that verses is about jews or christians or mushriks. our scholars? do they agriying on anything?
      and abdullah1234 vich planet you live on? most muslims in the world religious or not religious have very little authentic info about islam and quran. in short who ever claim he is a muslim he must return to quran. alcohol tobacco drug gambling and prostutution very high level in muslim society. corruption deception become our atributes. we need to pull our head from sand.

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    • “atlas quran is very clear. first of all we muslims need to take lesson from quran.quranles islam is not islam.quranles muslim is not a muslim. god give jews christians mushriks munafiks as a example for as to avoid to become like them even without knowing it. today muslim umma fall in that categories. we can not just say that verses is about jews or christians or mushriks. our scholars? do they agriying on anything?
      and abdullah1234 vich planet you live on? most muslims in the world religious or not religious have very little authentic info about islam and quran. in short who ever claim he is a muslim he must return to quran. alcohol tobacco drug gambling and prostutution very high level in muslim society. corruption deception become our atributes. we need to pull our head from sand.”

      “atlas quran is very clear. first of all we muslims need to take lesson from quran.quranles islam is not islam.quranles muslim is not a muslim. god give jews christians mushriks munafiks as a example for as to avoid to become like them even without knowing it.”
      So far I agree.
      “today muslim umma fall in that categories.”
      I’m not denying that there are Muslims that fall into that. I just refuse to believe that’s on the same level as jews and christians.
      “our scholars? do they agriying on anything?”
      Yes they do. You’ll always have disagreements cus there will always be some scholars here and there that have different view which statistically makes sense. Since when does having disagreements equal not being engaged with Qur’an?
      Do Christians agree on anything? They can’t even agree on what type of God they believe in: Duuuh person, duuuuh being. Don’t lower us to their pathetic level.

      ” alcohol tobacco drug gambling and prostutution very high level in muslim society. ”
      You excluded non religious Jews from the equation but you don’t do the same for the Muslims. Why?
      Exclude the Muslims that engage in this stuff if you’re willing to do that for them. And yes our Muslim Ummah is weak. Most of it is due to corrupt leaders and politics.

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    • atlas again:my life experience show me religious jews are most informed people about their religion. most religious muslim do not have authentic knowledge about islam.I think religious christians are better than muslims on knowing their religion. take mormons and jehowah witnesses and evangelical christians as example. for non religious people muslims and christians take each others places. quran 25:50 17:89 and 12:103 clearly show as majority of people are wrong side. every quranic verses blame jews christians mushriks or munafiks for some reason that also apply muslims. like quran 9:30 jews and christians condemned for attributing son to god if muslim do same thing fall in same category. many sufis believe god created noor of prophet muhammad from his(gods) noor. this is exactly the same thing. quran 9:31 many muslims yesterday and today take word of their imams contrary to clear quranic verses. if you read clasical sunni literature you will be tired of this fact. this lead us quran 25:30. yes religious muslims much more ethical than religious christian. so far I dont see muslim shamoun dwood asarosh robmorey type of people.

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    • “most muslims in the world religious or not religious have very little authentic info about islam and quran”
      What are you talking about!? It seems that you’re like those kind of people who just disagree for just disagreement.

      This is a competition of Qur’an in Tanzania, and look how full the stadium was

      This a video is about 2000 children from Turkey who memorize Qur’an as whole when they came to Mecca as a prize for their accomplishment. .

      I can give you more examples, by the way.

      We are not saying that muslim community is an angelic community, but their situation with Qur’an cannot be compared with any other religious members with their scriptures.

      Please don’t waste our time with your negative attitude, and you should be careful doing that because the prophet ﷺ said “When you hear a man say, ‘The people are ruined,’ he himself is the most ruined of them all.” Sahih Muslim.

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    • abdullah1234 turkey %99 muslim country but %30 people openly admit they are atheist or deist and actual number is much higer. and this is true for egypt algeria tunusia bangladesh afganistan and all other countries. in west we lost our children too. memorizing quran without understanding!!!!!! competition for recitation of quran????? please wake up and see the reality. truth is truth. this example or that example don’t change anything. yes there are good muslims,yes there are good works many muslims are doing but we are very behind and unprepared. and many division between muslims. also religious muslims often fall into person centered religious cults and that is very dangerous.

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    • Honestly brother I mean no disrespect but you are not being consistent.
      “%30 people openly admit they are atheist ”
      Why do mention them? You yourself focused on religious people (like when you did it with the jews) but now you throw in the atheists when it comes to evaluating Muslims.
      “memorizing quran without understanding!!!!!!”
      You can’t know that. You can’t know what’s in their hearts. Sure there are definitely people that do that but it’s kinda naive to think that most people would spend countless of days memorizing something without understanding it.

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    • atlas our situation is not much better than christians. running from religion evident in all over the world from every religious groups. among muslim and christian background deists and atheist there are religious seminarians. traditional muslim society memorizing quran more valued than understanding. test religious muslims abour religious knowledge quranic knowledge and understanding. if you live among some religious community result can be little or much better. comparing religios communities with others subjective matter. for example christians dont have tradition of memorizing greek or latin new testament or memorizing hebrew or latin old testament. christian bookstores in usa full of bible study tools same time some muslim people dont have translation of quran in their language.(this is changing to better) we muslims are reluctant to translate the quran to muslim and non muslim language. muslims stay in spain almost 800 years but I dont know any translation they make. same is true for balkan peninsula. those people get quran translations after we kicked out. and early translations made by non muslims. in short any blame in the quran even for specific group of peolpe applicable for muslims too. such as quran 3:187.

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  6. try this quiz I complete with 100% http://lost-history.com/quiz.php

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    • Damn I got 98%.
      Got question 19 wrong.
      “You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try”
      But I looked up other translations and they are quite different.
      “Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives”
      “Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women”
      “Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women”
      “And you have it not in your power to do justice between wives”

      Dealing with or between the wives is what got me. I thought the first was forbidding a man to marry more than one wife.
      Maybe I’m just making excuses :).

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    • atlas maybe you go too fast.

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    • Yea I did complete it within a few minutes. I didn’t even read everything 🙂

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    • I am still taking it. I this is one question:

      “Then [Elisha] got on the bed and lay upon the [dead] boy, mouth to mouth, eyes to eyes, hands to hands. As he stretched himself out upon him, the boy’s body grew warm. Elisha turned away and walked back and forth in the room and then got on the bed and stretched out upon him once more. The boy sneezed seven times and opened his eyes.”

      It reminded me of this, rather morose:

      “After seizing [Chris] Benoit’s computer, investigators also reported that the wrestler had searched the Internet for stories on the prophet Elijah. One of the stories of Elijah is how the prophet could raise a boy from the dead, starting with placing the dead child on his bed. Police found young Daniel on his bed.”

      https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/chris-benoits-dad-son-suffered-severe-brain-damage/story?id=11471875

      It is really tragic to have a man kill his family and commit suicide. It seems that Chris Benoit was not sane when he committed the murder-suicide.

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    • I got 48/16. I missed 16 and 31. The Quran al kareem’s style is a dead give away most times, and I have not memorized many passages, read tafsir, or read Arabic. My interests are largely in philosophy of religion and New Testament.

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  7. wonder sam shomun

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