An excellent analysis of the Hebrew Bible and how New Testament writers fabricated and distorted their citations from the Bible to promote their view of Jesus. Also, it is clear that Islam is an authentic theological continuance of the religion of Israel. Christianity’s system is the odd one out.
‹ Anderson Cooper Confronts Anti Islam Rally Organizer Jon Ritzheimer: Aren’t You ‘Promoting Violence’
Categories: Islam
Blogging Theology 
Dying in THIS WORLD to atone for sins is a logically self refuting concept as it has to paid in the HEREAFTER according to Christian belief itself . So Jesus Christ should actually burn in hell forever to atone for us .
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Whatever actions we take in this life have an impact on the afterlife. After we die it is too late, therefore if someone is to atone for your sins it is only possible in this life. That would mean the atonement of Jesus would not be self-refuting.
In Islam, Muhammad or other Muslims can intercede for fellow believers but this is only possible for those who are still alive because once you are dead nothing can change that.
If Jesus dying to atone for sins is a self-refuting concept so would the Islamic concept of intercession, known as Tawassul.
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the point is that we do not need someone to atone for our sins, now or ever. Forgiveness of sins is freely offered to us by a merciful God. Intercession is a different matter. In Islam others can intercede for us after our death, if we are in hell, and we can be delivered to paradise (see Bukhari & Muslim hadiths). No such mercy exists in Christianity.
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So what’s your view on why the NT authors such as Paul would say such things about Jesus, especially since they were Jews who should have known that no one needs to die for them?
And in Islam this so called mercy is for Muslims only. If you do not believe in Allah and that Muhammad is His messenger then you’ll stay in hell, no intercession will save you.
The mercy in Christianity is that Jesus has already done this for us, it is something we can accept before we die, and it is open for everyone.
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Its important to realise that Paul never met the historical Jesus, and seems very uninterested in his actual teaching about God and salvation. Jesus was focused on God and his kingdom, Paul focused on Jesus and his alleged death and resurrection. Different religions.
‘The mercy in Christianity is that Jesus has already done this for us, it is something we can accept before we die, and it is open for everyone.’
Most people in history have never heard of Jesus. It is not a truly universal religion. Islam is.
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“And in Islam this so called mercy is for Muslims only. If you do not believe in Allah and that Muhammad is His messenger then you’ll stay in hell, no intercession will save you.”
—————————————
And in Christianity, the so-called salvation is for Christians only. If you do not believe in the tetragammaton and that Jesus is God then you’ll stay in hell, nothing will save you.
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So then what about the gospel authors? They too focus on Jesus’ death and resurrection, particular towards the end of each gospel. Even in Mark Jesus says that he came to serve and give his life as a ransom for many (Mark 10:45). And although Paul went more in depth about Jesus than the others he was still very much focused on God, His kingdom and for people to live righteous lives on this earth, Jesus was highlighted as the example that we should follow; hence the term Christian i.e follower of Christ.
Jesus is more well known and Christianity more widespread than Muhammad and Islam respectively so I do not quite understand your last comment. Either way it’s not a matter of Christianity being a “universal religion” or not because the Bible teaches that God guides all of humanity especially by giving evidence of His existence and also the fact that we have a moral conscience within us. (Acts 14:16-17, Romans 2:14-15).
This is also what Jesus’ disciples came to understand – Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
That is a universal statement.
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Hussain I didn’t notice your comment earlier but anyway can you back up what you said with biblical evidence?
For the comment I made on Islam I can easily back that up from the Quran, for example Surah 48:13 which clearly says “And whoever has not believed in Allah and His Messenger – then indeed, We have prepared for the disbelievers a Blaze.”
There are plenty of other similar statements too.
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“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)
“8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,” (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9)
“But the…unbelieving… shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire…” (Revelation 21: 8)
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Mr. Henry
Jesus said,
12:4-5 “I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.
My dear Henry, the above statement by Jesus Christ clearly explains that, those who do not fear the God of Jesus will be in hell. So Christian mercy is for some people alone and not for others. Is it not? The problem I have with Christians is that, they tell untruths like what you said.
“The mercy in Christianity is that Jesus has already done this for us, it is something we can accept before we die, and it is open for everyone.”
Mr. Henry the mercy of Christianity is for those WHO ACCEPT CHRIST. You do not accept Christ you will be in hell. Paul Williams alerted you that it is not universal because people in history do not know Jesus and never accept he died for their sins but these people in history did worship one, only and alone God and submitted their will to Him and that is Islam and are Muslims and not Christians or Christianity which are the followers of Christ and the Judaism derived its religion from Judea, Hinduism from Hindu, Buddhism from Buddha.
Islam and Muslims are there before prophet Mohammed, because He just came to update the true religion of Abraham and those who submit to do the will of one, alone and only God of Abraham. Islam is universal from beginning till today, in that you do not have to ACCEPT CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOUR which was not there or was not heard of in Moses time, Solomon time, Jacob time etc. but all this time those people did accept in the worship of only, one and alone God of Abraham as Muslims do and so are Muslims.
According to Islam, if Allah does not send a prophet to warn you, then He will not punish you. So Islam is universal and the prophet should have to be prophet Mohammed alone but any prophet from God.
Christianity is not universal, because you must accept Jesus died for your sins and unfortunately before Jesus, people never heard of this wicked believe and babies cannot believe that, because they do not know who the heck Jesus is or was and people in the remote villages in Amazon or elsewhere who do not heard about Jesus Christ will be unjustly punished. My dear Henry Christianity is not universal religion at all, but Islam is a universal religion, in that a one who is saved is not the follower of Mohammed alone but those who submit to one, only and alone God of Abraham under any guidance from any prophet of God but not prophet Mohammed alone. And if God does not send prophet to warn you then He will not punish you and it is clearly written in the Quran.
I have more verses for you upon request including the one which Jesus said his enemies must be killed in front of him.
This is not saviour Christ, because a saviour must not have enemy but Jesus said his enemies must be killed, so he did not die for the sins of the world. That is a lie. A big lie I am sorry to say.
Thanks
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Mr. Henry
correction
from;
According to Islam, if Allah does not send a prophet to warn you, then He will not punish you. So Islam is universal and the prophet should have to be prophet Mohammed alone but any prophet from God.
to;
According to Islam, if Allah does not send a prophet to warn you, then He will not punish you. So Islam is universal and the prophet should not have to be prophet Mohammed alone but any prophet from God.
It means any prophet from God is a way to salvation, but not prophet Mohammed alone and so it is universal. People in the remotest part can have somebody to warn them from doing bad and worshiping one, only and alone God in some way without necessarily doing the same Muslims rituals and are Muslims.
And if they do not have any one from God to warn them, Allah said He will not punish them. Allah also said He sent so many prophets as His mercy to mankind and those prophets that He did not mention are more than those He mentioned. So it means Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Jacob etc. are not the only way to salvation in Islam but salvation is universal.
In Christianity salvation is through Jesus alone and unfortunately so many people do not know or heard about him before he was born till today.
You said
Jesus is more well known and Christianity more widespread than Muhammad and Islam respectively so I do not quite understand your last comment.
I say
The above statement is false. Now in this internet age, both Mohammed and Jesus and even Buddha and Hindu and Rastafarians are wide spread and known. Who does not know reggae and Rastafarians?
Go to Germany, Spain, Greece, Angola, Brazil etc. and hear people listening and screaming with joy to burning spear, Don Carlos, Bunny Wailer, Stephen Marley etc. preaching Emperor Haile Selaissie as a member of Trinity.
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Hussain none of these passages say that if you do not believe that Jesus is God you will burn in hell. If that were true then non-trinitarian Christians would not exist. Although I’d argue that Paul and the rest of the NT authors did believe Jesus was divine, they never explicitly called him God. They always made a distinction between “the Father of our lord Jesus Christ”. Also the Tetragrammaton is the Hebrew name of God. That argument has no basis because it’s like saying “if you do not believe Allah is God…”
Intellect I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to correct me on because you’ve pasted the same thing twice. In regards to your first response I completely agree with everything, I have no trouble with seeing Muhammad as a warner. However I disagree with your last sentence on Christian salvation. You said that people in the remotest part of the world can be Muslim or be warned and told to follow one God without necessarily taking part in the Muslim rituals. This is the same with Christianity. If someone does not know Jesus then there is no judgement or requirement on them in regards to that. How can they be required to do or believe in something they are not even aware of? I sort of explained this already in my response above, using Romans 2:14-15 and Acts 10:34-35 as references. You can read them yourself or read the Acts 10 quote in my response above.
For your second response you don’t quite understand what I’m saying. I didn’t say that Muhammad and Islam are not known across the world, I simply stated that Jesus and Christianity are more well known. Christianity is the largest religion in the world and has been so for the past couple of centuries. Not only is it the largest it is also the most widespread in the sense that it is found on nearly all of the 175 or so known countries in the world. Islam would be second in both cases. In that sense, Christianity is more well known than Islam. That’s what I’m trying to say.
Also I replied to your comment on the thread about Muslims losing their faith, I’d be interested in seeing a reply if you have one.
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Mr. Henry
You said;
For your second response you don’t quite understand what I’m saying. I didn’t say that Muhammad and Islam are not known across the world, I simply stated that Jesus and Christianity are more well known. Christianity is the largest religion in the world and has been so for the past couple of centuries. Not only is it the largest it is also the most widespread in the sense that it is found on nearly all of the 175 or so known countries in the world. Islam would be second in both cases. In that sense, Christianity is more well known than Islam. That’s what I’m trying to say.
I say;
Before Christianity and Jesus, Judaism is the true religion of God but the Pagan Religions was well known and widespread and largest than Judaism and had been so for so many centuries. Does that make idol worshiping and pagan religions the true religion from the God of Abraham?
There was a time when Christianity was a minority from centuries to centuries and does that make Christianity false? Until Constantine start to suppress the monotheist Christians and injected his allow the one that resembles his former religion to grow. The Romans has to conquer territories and spread Christianity by force and Catholics will persecute the protestants and the protestants will persecute the Catholics and Muslims and the Jews will be force converted or be killed i.e. read the history of al-andalus(Spain and Portugal), until no single Muslim or Jew remain there. The government of Spain is now trying to compensate Jews for the damage Christianity did to them.
Read about the force conversion and persecution of Muslims and the Jews in the Holy Land by Christian crusaders. No Muslim was allowed in Europe to live until the liberals took over to bring the freedom of religion.
America or the United States force convert Muslim slaves from Africa and persecute, the Catholics and the Mormons until the war of independence between the the North and the South. The north liberals won the war and broad a constitution which allow for the freedom of religion and by that time America has more Christians not because of wilful spread, but by force.
Now that the world is full of liberals and a freedom of religion, Islam is catching up with speed of light, hence the “terror” label against Islam, but Islam is still catching up and it is in all 175 or so known countries in the world too, including known Christian scholars and their children converting to Islam and when they convert they learn Islam and become Islamic scholars and study the religion well like
Timothy Humble
Timothy Winter
Jonathan A C Brown
Ingrid Matson
Dr. Jerald Dirks
Mark Hanson
Jeffery Laing
Khalid Yasin
etc.
The above Muslims with Christian origin know their new religion well than Arabs and born Muslims and speak Arabic fluently than Arabs because of their faith and it shows how Islam is growing fast despite the western media bias orchestrated by Christian fundamentalists.
Visit the Muslims majority countries like Egypt, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Qatar, Lebanon, Palestine etc. and you will see indigenous, native Christians, Jews and Buddhist etc. who are still practicing their religions from centuries upon centuries of Muslim domination. Islam does not need war to allow the freedom of religion. It is there in the Quran to coexist with others who do not practice Islam and a law to let them live freely.
So, the growth of Christianity is artificial and it is now coming down because most western citizens a either liberals, atheists or are fast converting to other religions especially Islam.
The spread of Islam is natural but not artificial because there was no major force conversion as the Christians are spending a lot of money even now and today is billions of dollars to convert people to Christianity. Who does this to Islam? Allah.
Thanks
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Mr. Henry
You said;
If someone does not know Jesus then there is no judgement or requirement on them in regards to that. How can they be required to do or believe in something they are not even aware of? I sort of explained this already in my response above, using Romans 2:14-15 and Acts 10:34-35 as references. You can read them yourself or read the Acts 10 quote in my response above
I say;
Then tell your Christian colleagues to stop preaching “believing Jesus died on the cross for your sin is the only way to save mankind”. From the above you no longer believe Jesus death on the cross is the only way to save the sins of mankind. I think Ken Temple will not agree with you and he will not call you a Christians.
Thanks.
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Intellect you’re taking this into a completely different direction. My point here was not about discussing which religion is true, we can talk about that in a different thread. I was showing that Jesus atoning for sins is not a self-refuting concept and that Christian teachings as found in the Bible are universal. I’ve given enough responses in all my previous comments from above so I’m going to leave it there because this is going nowhere.
But what I’d like to say is judging from your response you have clearly not had a fair analysis of your own religion if you’re telling me that “Islam does not need war to allow the freedom of religion”. What was Muhammad doing in the last 10 years of his life? Leading military campaigns as a war commander waging war against those who would not accept Islam. Completely opposite from what you’ve just told me. Even on his death bed Muhammad appointed a young man called Usama bin Zayd to lead a military force against the Palestinians in 632 AD, killing many of the inhabitants. You clearly have not read the Quran properly, there is an entire chapter dedicated to war commands (Surah 9 – At-Tawbah) and you’ll find more scattered throughout many Medinan Surah’s including Surah 3:85 which says anyone who chooses a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted from them. Is this really the peaceful coexistence you speak of?
And of course there can be peace and coexistence between Islam and people of other religions as long as Islam is the dominant religion and the others have been subjugated under Jizya tax. This is what was decreed in Surah 9:29 for Jews and Christians, but during the Islamic golden age Hindus, Zoroastrians and others were also included. What happened if you refused Jizya tax or conversion to Islam? You were to be killed or enslaved.
If you want to talk about the evils of Christianity I can go down that same route with Islam which will take us nowhere.
Actually I very much do believe that Jesus death on the cross can save mankind from their sins. There’s a big difference between saving someone and God blessing someone. The quotes I referred to are about how God deals with humanity as a whole regardless of whether or not they believe in him or the atonement of Jesus Christ. In Jesus’ own words, God allows the sun to shine and the rain to fall on both the good and evil alike (Matthew 5:45), that has nothing to do with salvation.
And I don’t really care whether or not Ken would agree with me, we are entitled to our own opinions. I’ve mentioned that the central tenet of Christian Faith is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, I’m sure Ken will agree with me on that and therefore call me a Christian.
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Mr. Henry
Sorry if I offended you. I swear my intention was not to offend you but to defend the truth. I can see some lies in Christianity. How can you believe it is only the blood of Jesus that will save mankind and at the same time believe people will be saved without the blood of Jesus?
You cannot eat your cake and have it at the same time. Your belief is not correct. Choose one.
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Romans 3:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3 0Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
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Paul said that God set forth Jesus to be a propitiation for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. Romans 3 v 25. though his righteousness is declared through the gospel at a particular time in history, at a time well after many of those whose sins were remitted were already long dead.
Just how God willed it. Should we argue with God that he should have done it differently?
Which lies are you talking about Intellect?
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Hi Paul
who wrote that?
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madmanna
You said;
Paul said that God set forth Jesus to be a propitiation for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. Romans 3 v 25. though his righteousness is declared through the gospel at a particular time in history, at a time well after many of those whose sins were remitted were already long dead.
Just how God willed it. Should we argue with God that he should have done it differently?
Which lies are you talking about Intellect?
I say;
Who is Paul? to tell Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Aaron, Joseph and all the prophets of God how their sins will be forgiven? Why should the Almighty God hide this important salvation of mankind to Moses and the rest and tell Paul to tell the dead that their salvation is to be forgiven by Jesus.
If that is the case, then this scenario will happen in the day of judgement.
God: Hey Moses, Abraham etc. Jesus died for your sins
Moses: I never knew that
God: Well I am telling you today, that Jesus died for your sins and I am 3 Persons/persons in 1 being.
Moses: My God, why did you not tell me and my people this important message and besides every Person/person is a being so you are talking of 3 beings here but you told me that you are only, one and alone and if you are alone how come you have other beings or persons? It does not make sense to me and you did not tell me what you are telling me today and in fact, you told me the opposite, in that you are only, one and alone being. You have changed all that you told me and that is not fair to me and my people my God with all due respect
God: I am God, I do what I like and no one can question me.
Moses: I know that, but you cannot be unfair and hide an important thing by asking me to preach the opposite of what you are telling me today. You never told me and my people that you are 3 Persons/persons in 1 and you told us that you are one, only and alone. You never told me that Jesus died or will die for my sin s and that is unfair, hidden important information to your servants and telling them the opposite i.e. lies my God
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madmanna
Abraham did not worship Trinity and does not believe Jesus died for his sins, so “believing Jesus died for your sins is the only way to say mankind” is a big lie because Abraham does not believe in that and will be saved by force. Will Abraham not be saved? because he does not believe Jesus died for his sins? No. So, just like Abraham Muslims and Jews will be saved without believing Christ died for their sins. In fact any body can be saved by the Almighty God if He wills without any blood. The blood business is a lie
Watch this a top Christian admits Trinity is not in the Old Testament and cannot be found in there.
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Madmanna “Paul said that God set forth Jesus to be a propitiation for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. Romans 3 v 25. though his righteousness is declared through the gospel at a particular time in history, at a time well after many of those whose sins were remitted were already long dead.
Just how God willed it. Should we argue with God that he should have done it differently?”
“St.” Paul said a lot of things that are interpreted in a lot of ways. He expected the Christ to return in his lifetime. He was wrong about that.
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Intellect said: “Moses: I know that, but you cannot be unfair and hide an important thing by asking me to preach the opposite of what you are telling me today.”
Who said God has to be fair? Jesus didn’t:
matthew 13 v 16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
Moses did proclaim penal substitution for sin through the temple sacrifices.
Abraham was not saved by keeping laws but by offering burnt offerings, confessing his sins and trusting in God. There were no laws for him to keep, except a few given to Noah, and he wasn’t circumcised at the time that God declared him to be justified in Genesis 15:
v 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. 7 And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.
Neither of these men were muslims or islamic prophets.
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of course they were Muslims. The Quran clearly states that they were. But they knew nothing of Jesus and were still saved.
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madmanna
You said;
Who said God has to be fair? Jesus didn’t:
matthew 13 v 16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
I say;
I have no idea on what this verse got to do with God fairness or unfairness. It did not mention anything about fairness or unfairness. I do not understand what it is about,
You said;
Moses did proclaim penal substitution for sin through the temple sacrifices.
I say;
Moses did not proclaim Jesus died or will die for his sins. That is exactly what we are talking about. If you watch the video, the Rabbi brought verses to show clearly when sins were forgiven without penal substitution through the temple sacrifices.
Read what Jesus taught about forgiveness;
Our Father, Who is in heaven,
Holy is Your Name;
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our sins,
as we forgive those who sin against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
madmanna, the above verse clearly state that sins is forgiven without penal substitution or Jesus dying for someone’s sins. It did not state Jesus died for the sins of the world or died for the sins of mankind but it said “forgive us our sins”
You said;
Abraham was not saved by keeping laws but by offering burnt offerings, confessing his sins and trusting in God. There were no laws for him to keep, except a few given to Noah, and he wasn’t circumcised at the time that God declared him to be justified in Genesis 15:
I say;
Then Jesus must be burnt. You know, as God, the earthly fire will be too small to burn him but the hell fire is strong to burn him as burnt offering of the Almighty God.
I did not brought this burning of Almighty God to death, but it is you madmanna, who brought it as your belief.
You said;
Neither of these men were muslims or islamic prophets
I say;
A muslim is someone who submit himself to do the will of the God of Abraham and it is not the followers of prophet Mohammed alone are Muslims but the followers of the God of Abraham through prophets and Jesus fell down as a Muslim to pray to his God and therefore submitted himself to the God of Abraham and therefore a Muslim.
Thanks
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