as we have all witnessed many times on this blog…
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as we have all witnessed many times on this blog…
Categories: Silly
Blogging Theology 
Thanks for the underhanded praise Paul, which we both know you don’t mean at all! 😉
However, you will always be my favorite Muhammadan.
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BTW, I am really tempted to obliterate Unitarian’s, a.k.a. blackstonian’s “response” to my objections in the other thread where he tried to sound like he knows a thing or two about logic by trying his hand at putting holes in my reply. What makes this all the more hilarious is that his “rational rebuttal” not only missed the entire point, but he ended up making my case against you all the more stronger. Take for instance this stupid response from blackstonian:
What about this possibly. God can inform us that he cannot lie but he is lying and can lie.
How do we address this objection ? We cannot use a rational approach and we are therefore only left with a scripture based approach. It is not enough for God to tell us that it is impossible for him to lie, he must also inform is that he is not lying when he is saying it. In fact this goes on as infinitium”
This is what happens when a Muhammad who recites the Quran tries to sound logically, which we both know is a logical impossibility since the Quran and logic do not mix, seeing that one cancels out the other! Not only does this straw man and red herring badly distort the point of my objection and the meaning of the texts of the verses I cited, he now has pretty much destroyed any attempt on your part and the part of other Muhammadans like Yahyaslime from ever appealing to any Quranic text in order to infer that your deity cannot lie or become Satan. For instance, when Yahyaslime appealed to Allah being al-qudoos to prove that he is free from all defects he only exposes his ignorance since, per blackstonian’s (il)logic, Allah may be lying. In fact, I actually agree with blackstonian at this point since Allah is a liar and deceiver according to the Quran, to the extent that he even makes Satan look honest:
For example, the Quran calls Allah a makr, in fact the best makr there is:
But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54; cf. 8:30
Other texts that identify Allah as a makr include:
Are they then secure from Allah’s deception (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah’s deception (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99
So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme (Wamakaroo makran wamakarna makran), while they perceived not. S. 27:50
The word for deception/deceiver/scheme is makr. The lexical sources define the term as:
Miim-Kaf-Ra = To practice deceit or guile or circumvention, practice evasion or elusion, to plot, to exercise art or craft or cunning, act with policy, practice stratagem.
makara vb. (1)
perf. act. 3:54, 3:54, 7:123, 13:42, 14:46, 16:26, 16:45, 27:50, 40:45, 71:22
impf. act. 6:123, 6:123, 6:124, 8:30, 8:30, 8:30, 10:21, 12:102, 16:127, 27:70, 35:10
n.vb. 7:99, 7:99, 7:123, 10:21, 10:21, 12:31, 13:33, 13:42, 14:46, 14:46, 14:46, 27:50, 27:50, 27:51, 34:33, 35:10, 35:43, 35:43, 71:22
pcple. act. 3:54, 8:30
LL, V7, p: 256 (Project Root List)
And:
He practised DECEIT, GUILE, or CIRCUMVENTION, desiring to do another a foul, an abominable, or an evil action, clandestinely or without his knowing whence it proceeded. (Lane’s Arabic-English Lexicon; source)
Lest Muslims accuse these lexicons of bias or distortion notice what Muslim scholar Dr. Mahmoud M. Ayoub says when he asks,
“how the word makr (scheming or plotting), which implies deceitfulness or dishonesty, could be attributed to God.” (The Quran and Its Interpreters – The House of Imran [State University of New York Press [SUNY], Albany 1992], Volume II, p. 165)
After listing several Muslim sources he quotes a renowned Muslim expositor named ar-Razi who wrote that,
“scheming (makr) is actually an act of deception aiming at causing evil. It is not possible to attribute deception to God. Thus the word is one of the muttashabihat [multivalent words of the Quran].” (Ibid., p. 166)
Unfortunately for ar-Razi, the Quran attributes deception to Allah since it identifies him as the best makr there is.
Ayoub also sources one Muslim who actually boasted of Allah being the best conniver/deceiver/schemer etc.,
“Qurtubi observes that some scholars have considered the words ‘best of schemers’ to be one of God’s beautiful names. Thus one would pray, ‘O Best of Schemers, scheme for me!’ Qurtubi also reports that the Prophet used to pray, ‘O God, scheme for me, and do not scheme against me!’ (Qurtubi, IV, pp. 98-99; cf. Zamakhshari, I, p. 366).” (Ibid., p. 166)
And here, also, is how one of the earliest sources on the life of Muhammad interpreted Q. 8:30:
Then he reminds the apostle of His favour towards him when the people plotted against him ‘to kill him, or to wound him, or to drive him out; and they plotted and God plotted, and is the best of plotters.’ i.e. I DECEIVED them with My firm GUILE so that I delivered you from them. (The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, with introduction and notes by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, Tenth impression 1995], p. 323; capital emphasis ours)
Thus, the Quran unashamedly calls Muhammad’s god the best liar and deceiver of them all! It even dares to say that ALL deception belongs completely to Allah:
And verily, those before them did deceive/scheme (makara), but all deception/scheming is Allah’s (falillahi al-makru). He knows what every person earns, and the disbelievers will know who gets the good end. S. 13:42
In fact, the Quran states that Allah actually raises wicked individuals to deceive and scheme:
Even so have we placed in every city, ringleaders of its wicked ones, to scheme therein (liyamkuroo): but only against themselves shall they scheme (yamkuroona)! and they know it not. S. 6:123 Rodwell
And further commands people to do evil so that he can then have a reason to destroy them!
And when We would destroy a township We send commandment to its folk who live at ease, AND AFTERWARD they commit abomination therein, and so the Word (of doom) hath effect for it, and we annihilate it with complete annihilation. S. 17:16 Pickthall
The Quran uses another word to denote that Allah is a liar, a schemer who has no problems using guile, namely kayd:
And those who cry lies to Our signs We will draw them on little by little whence they know not; and I respite them — assuredly My guile (kaydee) is sure. S. 7:182-183 Arberry
and I shall respite them — assuredly My guile (kaydee) is sure. S. 68:45 Arberry
The lexicons provide the following definitions:
Kaf-Ya-Dal (Kaf-Alif-Dal) = To be about to, be just on the point of, be well nigh, intend, wish, practise an artful device, desire, contrive/plot/devise such a thing, worked or laboured at or upon anything, to do something clandestinely, to deceive/beguile/circumvent, means of evading/eluding, vomited, emitted fire, had menstrual flux, gave up his spirit.
kada vb. (1)
perf. act. 12:76
impf. act. 12:5, 21:57, 86:15, 86:16
impv. 7:195, 11:55, 77:39
n.vb. 3:120, 4:76, 7:183, 8:18, 12:5, 12:28, 12:28, 12:33, 12:34, 12:50, 12:52, 20:60, 20:64, 20:69, 21:70, 22:15, 37:98, 40:25, 40:37, 52:42, 52:46, 68:45, 77:39, 86:15, 86:16, 105:2
pcple. pass. 52:42
LL, V7, p: 166, 167 (Project Root List)
The Quran furnishes plenty of examples that exemplify the negative aspect and nature of this term, e.g. those who use kayd are deliberately intending something evil which results in their judgement for employing such wicked schemes:
What, have they feet wherewith they walk, or have they hands wherewith they lay hold, or have they eyes wherewith they see, or have they ears wherewith they give ear? Say: ‘Call you then to your associates; then try your guile (keedooni) on me, and give me no respite. S. 7:195 Arberry
He [Jacob] said, ‘O my son [Joseph], relate not thy vision to thy brothers, lest they devise against thee some guile (fa yakeedoo laka kayda). Surely Satan is to man a manifest enemy. S. 12:5 Arberry
So when he [Potiphar] saw his [Joseph] shirt torn from behind, he said: Lo! this is of the guile of you (kaydikunna) women. Lo! the guile of you (kaydakunna) is very great. S. 12:28 Pickthall
So gather your guile (kaydakum); then come in battle-line. Whoever today gains the upper hand shall surely prosper. S. 20:64 Arberry
the day when their guile (kayduhum) shall avail them naught, and they shall not be helped. S. 52:46 Arberry
if you have a trick, try you now to trick Me (kaydun fa keedooni)!’ S. 77:39 Arberry
Allah is even portrayed as stooping down to the level of the deceivers and liars by acting like them in his use of guile:
They are devising guile (ya keedoona kaydan), and I am devising guile (Wa akeedu kaydan). S. 86:15-16
There is more to the story. The Quran uses yet another word in describing the deception of Allah, that word being khida/khuda/khada:
Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them (Inna al-munafiqeena yukhadiaaoona Allaha wahuwa khadiaauhum). And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little. S. 4:142 Hilali-Khan
Here, once again, is the lexical meaning of this specific word:
Kh-Dal-Ayn = To hide/conceal, double or fold, deceive or outwit, pretend, to enter, vary in state/condition, refrain or refuse, relinquish, to be in little demand of, deviate from the right course, resist/unyield/incompliant, turn away and behave proudly.
khada’a vb. (1)
impf. act. 2:9, 8:62
pcple. act. 4:142
khada’a vb. (3) impf. act. 2:9, 4:142
LL, V2, p: 344, 345, 346, 347 (Project Root List)
Lest there be any confusion concerning the fact that this word means that Allah is a deceiver notice how this term is used in the following references:
They (think to) deceive Allah (Yukhadiaaoona) and those who believe, while they only deceive (yakhdaaoona) themselves, and perceive (it) not! S. 2:9 Hilali-Khan
And if they would deceive thee (yakhdaaooka), then lo! Allah is Sufficient for thee. He it is Who supporteth thee with His help and with the believers, S. 8:6 Pickthall
Is there any doubt that the unbelievers were using deception as they tried to deceive Muhammad and his companions? Just as there is no doubt that Allah also uses deception in deceiving them!
It gets worse. Satan accused Allah of misleading or deceiving him:
He said: Now, because Thou hast sent me astray (aghwaytanee), verily I shall lurk in ambush for them on Thy Right Path. S. 7:16 Pickthall
[Iblis (Satan)] said: “O my Lord! Because you misled me (aghwaytanee), I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead (walaoghwiyannahum) them all. S. 15:39 Hilali-Khan
What makes this last reference rather interesting is that Satan promises to do to mankind what Allah did to him, namely, pervert/deceive/mislead people from the path!
Lest a Muslim say that these are the lies of Satan, that the enemy was merely slandering Allah, here is a text where the Quran acknowledges that the Devil was right since Allah does pervert/deceive/mislead people from the way:
And my sincere counsel will not profit you, if I desire to counsel you sincerely, if God desires to pervert you (yughwiyakum); He is your Lord, and unto Him you shall be returned.’ S. 11:34 Arberry
To say that this is amazing would be a wild understatement.
Oh but wait! Allah may be actually lying about being a liar and deceiver! You see just how stupid blackstonian’s attempt of “rebutting” turns out to be? What makes this all the more said is that this stone worshiper actually thinks he is making a cogent reply to what I wrote in response to you! This is the severe damage that the sunna and kissing the stone does to a Muhammadan’s brain.
Now watch this neophyte try to wax eloquent and pretend to be rational by misquoting biblical texts to show that Yahweh is supposedly a deceiver like his god happens to be, which would not only be an example of tu quoque fallacy, but also a classic illustration of how the stone kisser doesn’t apply his own argument consistently against himself and his profit. After all, how does he know that Yahweh or the Bible writers wasn’t lying when he/they claim that Yahweh deceives much like Allah does? 😉
Anyway, I may write a thorough response to his garbage in order to show him why he has no business engaging me or anyone else on logic or exegesis in the near future. I really am swamped for time and need to choose wisely between wasting my time exposing ignoramuses or writing articles for the website and teaching theology and apologetics via classes, paltalk and the satellite shows.
Until then Paul, I do pray that God blesses you and guides you to his love and truth.
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BTW Paul would you mind emailing since I have a request to make if you. Thanks.
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if you=of you
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Eh? Where is the response? He is not happy with a potential tu quoque fallacy, yet he cuts and pastes an article to claim that the Quranic God is a deceiver. How does that respond to the crucial self defeater of his scripture based (in an absolute sense) understanding of a maximally powerful being?
You refute the argument by refuting the major or minor premise or by refuting the mode of reasoning and not by cutting and pasting an article about terminology you disagree with in the Quran.
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Sam Shamoun is truly a “master debater”
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You see Williams the effect of kissing the black stone on blackstonian’s brain? Which part of “BTW, I am REALLY TEMPTED to obliterate Unitarian’s, a.k.a. blackstonian’s “response” to my objections in the other thread where he tried to sound like he knows a thing or two about logic by trying his hand at putting holes in my reply,”, or “Anyway, I MAY WRITE a thorough response to his garbage in order to show him why he has no business engaging me or anyone else on logic or exegesis in the near future. I REALLY AM SWAMPED FOR TIME and need to choose wisely between wasting my time exposing ignoramuses or writing articles for the website and teaching theology and apologetics via classes, paltalk and the satellite shows.”, wasn’t clear to this neophyte? This is another clear indication of the stone worshiper’s ability to properly understand and therefore correctly represent the view os his opponents. This explains why this coward was too ashamed to reveal his personal identity since he even realizes that his response is so bad that he doesn’t want anyone knowing that such garbage actually originated from him. In fact, he has now convinced that there is something which is impossible for even Allah himself to do, namely, take a stone kssing, Quran reciting Muhammadan and turn him into a logically consistent and rational person. Now that is definitely something that the Muslim deity CANNOT do, as can be seen from the comments of blackstonian! 🙂
Anyway, back to writing more rebuttals exposing this stone worshiper’s profit and “deity.” 😉
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Yet you cut and paste a totally irrelevant article. If that wasn’t intended for me then why paste it? Wonderful tactic. I don’t have time to reply but here is a mindless series of cuts and pastes from the Internet.
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Paul
Sam Shamoun is nothing but uneducated in both Islam and Christianity. He has a database of lies, half truths, and deception about Islam which he use to convince un research Christians that Islam is bad and they are happy.
You read through and you realize he will tell Christians that “Allah is a deceiver” and the Christians will be happy and will pay him with pay check but will not investigate their own Bible and see their God of the Bible is a great deceiver who deceives and cause people to deceive and praise and reward a deceiver. Some learned Christians knew this and will not repeat this cheap uneducated argument. Besides God can deceive the wicked and evil people who did not listen to Him(God) and are going to carry a wicked deed. God can deceive them to prevent them from causing what will be great catastrophe to mankind and there is nothing wrong about. This fool in a rush to attack Islam and Muslims will not think about that. We debate with highly learned Christians here and elsewhere who talked seminary times and some are Doctors etc. and they will not mention this stupid things Sam keep cutting and pasting and all have been thoroughly repeated over and over here and elsewhere and he continue repeating them.
He recently accuse the Quran by saying Allah is the doer of all things without checking his Bible to see so many verses where the God of the Bible and Jesus himself said he can do anything and with him(Jesus) everything is possible.
You flip to few pages of the Bible and Jesus will say he does not know the end days. What a contradiction and inconsistencies in the Bible!!! . This stupid man Shamoun will not sit and ponder about all this has the gut to attack Islam by cut and pasting nonsense. You can do that to uneducated Christians but not Muslims. You know you will be exposed for your lies. It is an embarrassment to those who pay you for this uneducated cut and pastes.
Thank.
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Sam Shamoun
For God sake, stop cutting and pasting this deceiver thing. Is that all that you have against Islam? It is a lunatic who will write this long page about what a deceiver is to convince Christians who do not research but not all Christians.
We gave you a big rebuttal here in that the God of the Bible deceives and cause people to deceive and praised and reward deceivers in the Bible. We did it here and elsewhere you were rebutted and you keep repeating it. I pity your employers, who will pay you for this lies and repetition.
Besides you are uneducated in both Islam and Christianity, so you do not have any credibility in Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and you do not have certificate, diploma or degree in theology or any discipline to be taking seriously. Such a person like you only cut paste nonsense to his Christian audience.
ENOUGH OF THE DECEPTION BECAUSE YOU ARE THE DECEIVER SAM SHAMOUN
Thanks.
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“We gave you a big rebuttal here in that the God of the Bible deceives and cause people to deceive and praised and reward deceivers in the Bible.”
Yes, but how does the God of the bible deceive and how does Allah or his prophet deceive? That makes the difference.
The God of the bible does not deceive by either lying or concealing the truth. It is not necessary for him to deceive in this way.
But how about Allah or his prophet on the other hand?
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Sam Shamoun
You said;
To say that this is amazing would be a wild understatement.
Oh but wait! Allah may be actually lying about being a liar and deceiver! You see just how stupid blackstonian’s attempt of “rebutting” turns out to be? What makes this all the more said is that this stone worshiper actually thinks he is making a cogent reply to what I wrote in response to you! This is the severe damage that the sunna and kissing the stone does to a Muhammadan’s brain.
Now watch this neophyte try to wax eloquent and pretend to be rational by misquoting biblical texts to show that Yahweh is supposedly a deceiver like his god happens to be, which would not only be an example of tu quoque fallacy, but also a classic illustration of how the stone kisser doesn’t apply his own argument consistently against himself and his profit. After all, how does he know that Yahweh or the Bible writers wasn’t lying when he/they claim that Yahweh deceives much like Allah does? 😉
I say;
So you now believed as per you last sentence that, your Bible writers were lying? and lied? about Yahweh being a deceiver? So you admit the Bible is full of lies? now? If you now admit your Bible is lies because of the writers lied about Yahweh being a deceiver, then why are you believing those lies in your Bible?
Black Stone
If you and the Christians you want to convince had done a little bit of research you will realize that, if you visit Jerusalem, you will see Jews bowing, kissing, putting their wishes etc. in a stone called the western wall. Do you say they are worshiping the stone?
Muslims believe the kaaba(building) and all the block used in building it is sacred and we explained this several times and it makes sense and it is not like Trinity. Our explanation makes perfect sense in that no Muslim will pray and mention kaaba but you mention man(Jesus) to save you as he is your God. You see the difference?
Some Christians will say, Tawheed is not in the Quran, and I will tell them that Muslims do not worship Tawheed but Christians worship Trinity.
Muslim God is not a Tawheed because Tawheed is a word in Arabic and it does not mean God or represent God but Trinity represent the Trinitarian God and is their God so it must be in the Bible.
Some Muslims have not heard the word Tawheed before in their lives but they are Muslims because they do not worship Tawheed but they worship One, Only and Alone God of Abraham.
So, Muslims do not worship the kaaba because it is just a sacred building built by Prophet Abraham with the help of God and Muslims cherish it like how the Jews cherish their Western Wall.
Thanks.
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madmanna
You said;
“We gave you a big rebuttal here in that the God of the Bible deceives and cause people to deceive and praised and reward deceivers in the Bible.”
Yes, but how does the God of the bible deceive and how does Allah or his prophet deceive? That makes the difference.
The God of the bible does not deceive by either lying or concealing the truth. It is not necessary for him to deceive in this way.
But how about Allah or his prophet on the other hand?
I say;
When the Bible the prostitute woman hid the people from being killed, she concealed the truths and the God of the Bible supported her and rewarded her. Is it not the concealing of truth?
1 Kings 22:20-22
20 And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, ‘I will entice him.’
22 ” ‘By what means?’ the LORD asked.
” ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.
” ‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’
madmanna, if the enemy of the Prophet are coming to kill him or his people, do you foolishly expect him to tell them the truth to go kill his people? You will be stupid to expect him to tell the truth on this one.
This topic was discussed here over, and over and over and you are completely refuted and Sam Shamoun keeps bringing it because he does not have anything and cannot defend his man worshiping.
Sometimes we, Prophets and even God lie for a good cause and it isthe no sin.
I once asked Sam Shamoun.
If a known rapist and a serial killer of teenager managed to enter his house which they sometimes do in the US, and his teenage daughter managed to hide in the basement and the rapist searched and was not able to find her but asked Shamoun Do have a teenage daughter? If you have a teenage daughter where is she? Will Sam Shamoun tell the truth but not lie to this rapist and show his daughter to him?
Of course he will lie that day, even Jesus will lie on this circumstances. Sam Shamoun will be stupid to show his daughter to the rapist and God would have punished him for that.
Sometimes some sin becomes or turns into reward. Muslims are not allow to eat pork but if they are in a situation of no food at all except pork, it becomes halal for them at only that instance.
So, it is not argument for you people to be cut and pasting all the time, it is irrelevant. If God deceives who cares. What we care is the truth about what He(God) said He is in the Bible.
He said He is One, Only and Alone clearly stated in numerous occasions.
So any body who say God is 3 people or 3 beings in I being or 3 in 1, hypostasis, essence etc. which is not in the Bible like Paul of Tarsus is a false Prophet.
Thanks.
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Clearly Shamoun is very very deceptive and hypocritical. With his claim that Allah is a deceiver he forgets James White has condemned that argument as James sees it as an argument which could be used against the New Testament (Shamoun either is completely ignorant of his Bible or was distracted by his welfare cheque)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBgUdjwZXBs
James White in his book (What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Quran):
“…God sent a lying spirit into the mouths of false prophets as a means by which He brought just punishment on those who rebelled against Him (1 Kings 22:23), and just as the New Testament warns those who refuse to love the truth will be caused to love a lie (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11)…”
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Brother Paul,
If I can suggest, this Shamoun guy should not be allowed in the blog meant for friendly critical discussions to be posting his hatred, insults and refuted articles.
I think this blog is for responsible Muslims and Christians that will have critical discussions on the two faiths in respectful and friendly manner.
Just a suggestion. Thanks.
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Yes, you make an excellent point. However Sam is on a tight leash on this blog and if he goes too far he gets himself banned. But he does provide some light entertainment for some folks. That’s how it is at the moment…
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@Hussain
Consider Shamoun as cannon fodder. He’s useful for new-to-apologetics Muslims to get an easy scalp under their belt and he helps to hone people’s speed in responding to the average internet Trinitarian missionary crap out there.
And I don’t mind seeing Shamoun getting his backside handed to him on here on the few occasions he is allowed to parade his stupidity. Also the fact any old Muslim is out-classing and out-debating the ‘master-debater’ (guess Paul didn’t want to use the English colloquialism beginning with ‘w’; hint it’s not welfare) will dry up his donations and possibly encourage him to get out into the real world and begin contributing to society.
So in a way, these experiences could work for the betterment of Shamoun and his family. Perhaps Paul is trying to help him. With the likes of White and Wood around him who used him and then kicked him to the kerb on their way to cashing in as faux-experts on Islam – all the while using Shamoun’s arguments and using him as a sounding board. No cash for Shamoun. No CBN appearances for Shamoun. Just a visit tot eh dole queue!
Shamoun came into Trinitarianism as a disgruntled opponent of white supremacy…he’s clearly experiencing that white supremacy in Trinitarianism. While he is scratching around on welfare and begging for donations on paltalk, newcomers like White and Wood are raking it in. Look at the other folk who are of the hue of Shamoun, Dakdok and Christian Prince; both of whom are struggling financially and struggling to even get recognition from their co-religionists. I would not be surprised if those boys are on welfare too.
Shamoun’s naivitey and lack of nous is regularly taken advantage of. Think abut it, this bloke is approaching 50 (if not already there) with a young family and has no career, no job and no prospects with suspected psychological issues. A car crash. A car crash that none of his so called Trinitarian buddies/colleagues even tried to avert. SAD.
For me, I feel sorry for him. Sure on occasion I do kick the carcass of Shamoun BUT I did try to help the guy back in the day recognising the fact these Trinitarian missionaries were taking advantage of him. On top of this, my door is always open, if he emails me I will certainly help the guy get a job and help in supporting him and his young family financially. I’m pretty sure Ijaz, Intellect, Burhanuddin, Eric, Paul, etc., will all do that too.
He is actually learning but his stubbornness and his hatred means he is a very slow learner who learns the hard way.
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“..seeing that one cancels out the other!”
I just realised there was a snippet of response from the Bible Belt loon!
Oh dear…
I say this “it is impossible for me to lie”
At a meta level I am actually lying . In other words they do not cancel out. Why?
Because I am lying when I state “it is impossible for me to lie”
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In other words they do not cancel out because we are talking about two different levels
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Again simply, can I falsely claim that it is impossible for me to lie? I sure can and I see no contradiction here
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I am really having fun here. Yep agree with Ijaz, Sam the man is a cannon fodder for any form of apologetics.
Pre-empting another silly response. One could argue (on the Shamonian view) that we can a number of options
A- A scripture based view of a Maximal being only
B- A scripture base approach which derivatively tells us to take on rational reasoning
C- A scripture based and an independent rational based approach both which inform each other (on a true religion )
I personally only think the third option is valid. The second collapses into the first and falls into the same traps that have been discussed
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Sam is entertainment for most of us. I like interacting with him, because his behaviour shows me just how badly extremism can make someone so off putting. Due to some of his posts, I began to write in response to his claims and today I’m doing PhD level research on Christianity and Islam. Now I help train and develop methods for bringing Christians to Islam. Sam has been a catalyst for thousands of Christians to turn to Islam and for this I am grateful. I don’t mean to “boast” about anything, but Sam is stuck with a GED he earned decades ago, without any formal training from any theological institution of higher learning, I’ve done more in 5 years, than he has done in almost 3 decades, despite suffering with a rare physical illness. It just goes to show, that when Allah seeks to use a person as a tool for good, He makes their path easy for them. I mean, I could have just turned into him, an obese, angry, sociopath with no formal education. I chose not to be.
We hope he seeks treatment one day, and as Yahya said, we’d all contribute financially or otherwise to his well being, even if he remained a Christian.
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Yes Ijaz, I thank God for Sam, for he has been the reason why so many turn to Islam 🙂
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Dear Hussein, you wrote:
“I think this blog is for responsible Muslims and Christians that will have critical discussions on the two faiths in respectful and friendly manner.”
Now I agree with you that the discussions between Muslims and Christians need to be based on mutual respect. Apparently, Mr. Williams does too, since he writes that you make “an excellent point.” However, I would like to point out that Mr. Shamoun has been insulted numerous times on this blog.
In the comments on this post, Intellect called him a “stupid man”, a “fool” “lunatic”, who “has the gut to attack Islam by cut and pasting nonsense” and uses “deception”. Intellect also says to Mr. Shamoun that he “will be exposed for your lies”.
Mr. Snow calls Mr. Shamoun “very very deceptive” and claims that he “was distracted by his welfare cheque”.
Mr. Ahmad apparently considers Mr. Shamoun to be “an obese, angry, sociopath”.
I would like to point out that no matter what Mr. Shamoun has said or done, these kind of ad hominem attacks are uncalled for. And if anyone tries to argue that since Mr. Shamoun has been disrespectful to Islam and/or Muslims, so that there is no problem with insulting him, let him/her remember that by posting comments on this blog, you’re in some way representing Islam to the public, and that perhaps we should expect higher standards from you. (https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/07/13/1315/).
Just my two cents (and apologies for my bad English, it’s not my first language).
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Mark, as a Christian you are clearly sensitive to the personal attacks on Shamoun, but not the vile insults and personal attacks on Islam, its prophet and his followers he routinely makes.
Why this partisan outrage?
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Dear Mr. Williams,
I’m afraid you might have misunderstood me. My dislike of the personal attacks on Mr. Shamoun has actually nothing to do with my Christian beliefs. And if Mr. Shamoun has personally attacked Muslims then I think that he was wrong to do so. At the very least, I consider it wrong that he uses the term “Muhammadan”.
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“And if Mr. Shamoun has personally attacked Muslims..” HA HA HA
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