The Islamic dawah site Calling Christians and video maker Yahya Snow have crossed a red line. Yahya Snow has just produced yet another video attacking Jonathan McLatchie. I have left the following comment on the Facebook page of Calling Christians as they are gleefully promoting these attacks.
I have watched the video. The Bible is a library of books written by many authors over a thousand years and mostly it does not present itself as direct revelation from God, see for example the Psalms of David and Paul’s letters. But a small amount of the Biblical material presents itself as the literal word of God. To that limited extent the video is correct.
What I object to is the relentless personal attacks on Jonathan which are becoming increasingly mean and hyperbolic.
Yes, he has made a couple of serious blunders. But that does not mean he is now open season for Muslim polemics to take pot shots at him every day.
My message to Calling Christians & Yahya Snow: stop the insults and negative polemics. Leave him alone. Do something worthwhile.
Why not try ‘calling Christians’ to Islam rather than putting them off?
Update
‘Calling Christians’ have been in touch and they tell me they will ‘continue to do what they have been doing’.
Categories: Bible, Christianity, Miscellaneous
Blogging Theology 
This is my latest video concerning Jonathan, it was pretty opportunistic as somebody sent me material related to Walid Shoebat and Christian Prince, thus I was working on a vid concerning those two characters. It just so happened Christian Prince (CP) and McLatchie shared a TV platform together yesterday. I believe CP advertised it on his YT so I was naturally curious to see what CP would do/say, especially considering his claim that he would call out Shabir Ally and others on the show. I stand by this video. I believe this type of activism will assist Christians in pinpointing the infiltration of Islamophobia in their evangelism and ultimately shun the characters involved as well as this type of activism acting as a deterrence to potential Islamophobes who were thinking of involving themselves in a similar game.
From a personal point of view, here are all my videos, I defy anybody to pull out a significant amount of what is deemed unreasonable criticism and indeed personal attacks:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRoY8UJPu7JmuLDN5d0Sdig
I stand by all my videos on Jonathan. I believe this is part of apologetics. Correcting somebody who is new on the block and just happens to be borrowing the same arguments as Nabeel, Wood, Shamoun and Spencer serves a few purposes. One of these purposes is that it deters other Christians/Islamophobes from blindly rehashing old refuted material – they know they will look foolish if they do so. As for the reason why it seems pretty constant, it’s because it’s easy. McLatchie literally copies an argument from somebody I have refuted in the past via video thus I just rehash the old vid to make a new one rebuking Jonathan. I’m hardly going to sit on my hands and let McLatchie a free pass – especially given some of his underhand approaches in dialogue of late (I will not go into this).
I think this can be an interesting discussion base for the best approach to Islamophobes on the net (I’m speaking in general). I strongly believe it’s our duty to be vocal about Islamophobia within Christian apologetics, even more so given the spread of the American fundamentalist Christian approach in the UK, this would inevitably involve tackling individuals. If we remain silent, how can we expect Islamophobia within Christian communities to dissipate?
I also believe tackling them via vids on an individual basis serves a positive function in denting Islamophobic designs as well as boosting the morale of young Muslims who are feeling overwhelmed on the net by a constant stream of anti-Muslim hatred.
I recall in my early days on YT, tackling a fella who claimed to be exMuslim and he was making vids with the standard iinternet arguments – I responded to him, correcting him over a period of time. He soon went away. He deleted his vids recognising the error in his way. Respect to him for his sincerity in that regard. Result. On the flip side, I have also noticed a Christian apologist who upon being corrected went to the extent of trying to censor (DMCAs etc) the replies and even change the name of his organisation just so the mistakes and offensive comments highlighted within my material (as well as other material) did not affect his potential career $$$. He of course was not sincere but nevertheless he will think twice before engaging in low-level attacks on Muslims and Islam. There’s a positive result in there somewhere. My material on Shamoun and Wood has actually received positive feedback to the extent that people were just relieved to find vids showing the errors in such a constant and aggressive form of islamophobia. Let’s not forget Ergun Caner, it was a Muslim vlogger who pretty much hounded him on the net to spark the demise of his con. There are, no doubt, many other examples.
I’d be interested to know other people’s opinions and experiences,what has/hasn’t worked for you? This is a good discussion base. Let’s have this discussion without people getting too excited and trying to turn it into some sort of cyber brawl.
Or if somebody does not want to post it here, feel free to email me: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk. Part of blogging/vlogging is taking in feedback and other Muslim POVs regardless of whether they are divergent from one’s own mindset.
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I have not been following al the details but good point, Paul….and good advice.
I have not been following the content closely but I support Calling Christians and Brother Yahya for their time and efforts to share Islam.
But I agree that it is critical that the tone be such that it is welcoming and compassionate and it might be counter productive if it turns viewers away or if it hardens the hearts of those who they are criticizing….we want is best for us, for them, and all people.
“And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, “We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him.” (29:46)
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You could say you’re calling out calling christians for calling out christians
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Taha
I could say that, but I would be accused of being remarkably silly.
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@ Br. Omer, if you have any particular techniques you have used in the past in dealing with the more belligerent internet Christian, please do share. Thanks.
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Just a note on Calling Christians v Jonathan McLatchie as far as I can see one (CC) is just being more overt in their criticisms of the other while the other (JM) is being more implicit in his criticism pertaining to Calling Christians. They are both saying the same thing about each other.
I can say in mitigation, Ijaz has been subjected to some underhand and implied insults which have been coming from JM and/or folk related to him – some of which was personal and at leat one comment which I was made of was malicious and demeaning. Not everybody on the net turns the other cheek, hence the CC stance. Of course I cannot speak on behalf of Ijaz nor CC – I’m sure they can speak for themselves but these are my observations. JM certainly needs to take his fair share of blame here, he threw stones and then realised he lived in a glass house when others threw bigger ones back. JM has offered a really immature approach to criticism being so sneaky in his passive aggressive, sensitive and block-happy manner which only leads to an increased scrutiny on him. JM needs to mature up.
Blocking people is an action of last resort, not first resort (or in the case of JM to hide away criticism due to his sensitive disposition, inability to acknowledge mistakes and retract arguments/comments which he knows are invalid).
JM gets people’s backs up. People respond. It’s human nature. Some of the responses by individuals may have been invalid but the majority is bang-on the money!
Off to have a coffee, watch out Jay Smith, there’s video coming your way – you were spouting the old and refuted material of the orientalist Nevo Yehuda recently. Time to get a rap on the knuckles, Jay. Hopefully you won’t be repeating that one but given your gravitation towards misinformation one cannot be certain.
Peace all
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In the Name of God.
Salaam guys, can we get into more proclaiming – more pro islamic articles, etc.
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Yahya Snow un repentant as ever lol.
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Paul wrote and update:
“‘Calling Christians’ have been in touch and they tell me they will ‘continue to do what they have been doing’.”
My Response:
I see you’re learning about Ijaz like everyone else… Careful Paul he might do a hit piece on you and accuse you of threating to rape him, or kill his family or stab him and a whole list of other nonsensical false accusations.
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I have a great deal of respect for Ijaz even though I don’t agree with everything he does.
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Paul well you’re the only one lol
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I notice You Never pass an opportunity to have a go at Bro Ijaz. Robert Wells stop your nuisance, stop thrashing bro Ijaz, keep your ad hominem to yourself. It means squat to Muslims.
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Paul evedently ijaz has no respect for u
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Sadiq of have never done any of the things ijaz has falsely accused me of.
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Yes, Robert Wells You are an angel, Bro Ijaz is a human, Massive difference now Move on!
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Paul Williams, I admire your attempts to request Ijaz and Yahya to tone down their posts. Having been on both gentlemen’s blogs, I’d have to say that this is nothing new per sey. I have seen quite severe levels of nastiness on multiple occasions from the both of them. It’s rather off-putting, because I like to try to understand both sides of an issue, but when there is just so much vitriol to get through, it makes the reading experience a real drag. Anyway, kudos to you for your efforts. Ijaz did actually write in one post that he has been informed in the past of the insulting nature of his work and he did put it down to his disposition and expressed some level of regret, hoping to replace personal attacks with substantive issue-based writings instead. I would like to think that Ijaz was being sincere when he wrote that, but a part of me seems to think that it might have been cheap talk. As for Yahya Snow, I think it’s his “groove”. Perhaps he feels more self-gratification when he’s putting other people down. That kind of behaviour is sometimes the result of being a victim of bullying where the bullied becomes the bully. At the end of the day, I hope both men will take a long, hard look at what they’re doing, and come to the realisation that it is unprofitable and unwarranted.
Thanks again for speaking out Paul, even if it might cost your face.
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Royal Son I appreciate your comments. Thing is, we are all imperfect beings. And apologetics can bring out the worst in us.
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Royal Son, I don’t appreciate your misuse of this post to launch not-so-subtle barbs at myself and others. Same applies to RadMod. However, you’re entitled to do as you please.
@Paul, I would ask you what in your view is the ‘red line’ and where in my vids was that line crossed? My vids, I believe all of them can be found on this particular channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRoY8UJPu7JmuLDN5d0Sdig
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Yahya I don’t think RS is ‘misusing’ my post. He makes some valid comments in my humble opinion.
RadMod however is a troll and I treat him as such on my blog.
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OK Paul, everybody is free to indirectly have a dig. Including you.
However, I would appreciate it if you would take the time to lay down answer to my Q above. Thanks
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I thought it was clear from my article? Personal attacks and all that?
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Well Paul, it’s not clear. I don’t see a ton of personal attacks in my vids. Are you perhaps conflating FB comments made by people on the CC FB page with my vids?
I don’t see anything unwarranted or unreasonable in my vids, I’m of course open to change my view if you can point to a few comments…
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I will have another look when I get home and furnish some examples.
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Appreciated…make them good. Use the search facility to congregate all the vids featuring JM to make things easier for you.
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Oops, just a quick addition…Paul could you also let me know whether the ‘attack’ in my video which you linked to in your OP is justified criticism or not? It seems if you want to call that an ‘attack’ many other bouts of criticism, rebukes and responses in apologetics would indeed be called ‘attacks’ too if one was consistent.
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Yahya, my dear fellow, it seems that you take exception to taking no so subtle digs at your person, and yet sir, you seem to feel quite justified in doing that very thing in your videos and blog articles, albeit at a far more severe level than anything I have posted here of yourself and Ijaz. I can assure you however, I’m not on a mission to publically ridicule you or humiliate you. I am concerned for you and for Ijaz: two intelligent young men who have given themselves over to what I observe to be disturbing behaviour. Now Paul has been gracious in his post toward you, but he is not alone in his sentiments. Please do think over what he has reached out to you with. I’m sure someone of your capabilities would be able to produce videos that focus on the issues rather than attacking people’s character, no? I get the “but they’re kuffar” thing. I get the “Hey but they lied about Islam” thing. I really do. But if you truly feel something has been misrepresented or in your mind “lied about”, then use the intellect that God gave you to point it out in your articles and posts. I can see that you put a lot of time and energy into your posts and videos. Wouldn’t it be so much better if that time and energy were directed towards articles and videos which focus purely on the issues?
Finally, you mentioned that this is a part of apologetics. Perhaps as an apologist you might like to challenge Mr. McLatchie to a public formal debate. On that note, I understand you made a debate challenge to David Wood some time ago in the past (was it 2 years ago or more perhaps?) and he accepted. Whatever became of that debate?
Anyway, take care Yahya. For any unnecessary offense, I apologise. I hope things can start looking up.
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Paul you wound me sir
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Perhaps Royal Son would like to point out some examples from Yahya Snow’s videos and writings…
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A question for YS about his recent video:
It appears that the entire room is applauding Jonathan McLatchie being told he “should be ashamed of himself”.
Is that actually what happened in that scene?
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PW
that clip is not edited. There’s no canned applause added. Search PZ Myers and JM. You’ll find the clip.
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so who was saying to JM he “should be ashamed of himself”? Please do not refer me to videos. I would prefer a straightforward answer. Thanks.
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PW feel free to get all the assistance you require. They only need to go to the yt page, search jm and then view all the relevant vids.
It seems odd that you need assistance doing this though considering you claimed there were ‘relentless personal attacks’…
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PW
Pz Myers said. It’s in the clip.
I used it to convey the message that he should be ashamed for calling Christian Princes portrayal of Muslims as compulsive liars as a ‘great contribution’. Or words to that affect.
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Yes, I found the video Time-stamp is 5:58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omKP_AkdhsQ
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Sadiq Saliha thank you for the link and the time stamp. Very kind.
The clip features a self-avowed “godless liberal” and outspoken atheist, PZ Myers, verbally humiliating JM in a highly technical discussion about evolutionary biology. The details went way over my head.
YS uses this clip at 5:58 “you should be ashamed this is disgraceful”, in his own completely unrelated polemic against JM. I would characterise this use of footage of an unrelated personal attack as “negative polemics”. A Muslim citing an atheist put down of a theist who happens to be defending the intelligent design of God’s creation in biology is ironic.
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PW
Oh no you don’t fella. A few comments above you had no clue who made that comment thus clearly you seem to be clutching at straws here and making it up as you go along. To try and use the fact it’s a clip of PZ to prop up your claims is inventive to say the least. The use of that clip was simply to express the sentiment, he should be ashamed…of his apparent endorsement of the Islamophobic comments on the show. Please don’t insult anybody’s intelligence with that again.
Try again. You seem to be struggling in this one instance concerning that particular vid, perhaps you would like to give in as you have the relatively humongous task of substantiating ‘relentless personal attacks’ next (perhaps others would like to assist you on this project, creative minds will certainly be in demand for this project).
If you’re consistent with your loose use of ‘attack’ for responses/rebukes then I guess you believe you’ve attacked a lot of folk over the past years. You’ve attacked more people than Ronda Rousey…guess that makes most others look akin to CM Punk in comparison. Kudos if anybody gets those refs 🙂
Anyways, I’m out as you seemingly have nothing to support your words ‘relentless personal attacks’, ‘insults’ etc.
Paul perhaps you can use my response as a step to help you get off your high horse:
https://yahyasnow.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/paul-williams-on-his-high-horse-with-his-search-party-drawing-that-red-line/
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Yahya I have said my piece. Clearly we do not see things the same way.
I stand by my words. My message to yourself & Calling Christians: stop negative the polemics. It’s not constructive. It alienates people. It’s unislamic.
I see I am being treated to your customary dose of negative propaganda usually reserved for the Christians.
Nice one Yahya.
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I couldn;t resist checking before switching the laptop off.
I see I was subjected to your customary dose of negative propaganda down from that high-horse and provocation which you usually reserve for your Salafi ‘rivals’ for the spotlight and a particular former friend. The thing with those fellas is, they don;t respond…I just did – that was not propaganda in my link…it was a truthful response which I hope will be reflected upon. I suspect you know it. Digest it fella.
Take your own advice Paul and lead by example.
I bid you good night.
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Yahya, I’m a little surprised. Are you saying that you did indeed take a clip from PZ Myers in one context and apply it to Johnathan Mclatchie in a completely different context but only for the purpose of telling Johnathan Mclatchie to be ashamed of himself? If that is the case, I would respectfully disagree with your approach to this. It is quite improper to utilize clips of people and apply them in a way to make it appear that they endorse your perspective on the current topic at hand. That would be like putting a quote of a person in a book and applying it to a context which the person was never involved in or addressed.
If you have something to say, is it not better to use your own voice and your own words rather than use the words of an atheist? Even if the person quoted had been a Muslim, I don’t know if they would appreciate having their voice used to suit your own purpose.
If however you didn’t do this, could you explain it to me, because I’m quite confused about it.
In any case, if you wish for your work to be taken seriously, I think you should reconsider the way you make your videos. They could be done much more professionally and appropriately. Then Muslim and non-Muslim alike would be more willing to listen to what you have to say.
Peace.
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When you accuse somebody of making ‘relentless personal attacks’ and ‘insults’ you better have a few examples to back yourself up. It would also assist you if you have a pretty clean track record and have been leading a squeaky-clean example, after all you wouldn’t want to be accused of inconsistency, right?
Paul seems to have failed on both. As for him setting a good example, unless one has a memory of a goldfish, he fails on this front. Paul, it really does not get much more personal than:
Paul does personal. He does relentless too, just ask his former buddy who was in business (?) with him a few years ago (how time flies) – that poor fella has been on the sharp end of Paul’s internet sniping for a long while now. Pretty relentless if you ask me.
Talking about not too long ago, Paul was at it again with one of his other sectarian enemies this time, one of the iERA chaps. He’s had a few digs at him and other iERA fellas in the past. Relentless, insulting and personal stuff. Where’s that PZ Myers clip saying ‘you should be ashamed’? 🙂
Paul, upon being asked to sift through my material on JM and find examples of relentless personal attacks which are becoming increasingly mean and insults he seems to have floundered. He was even appealing for assistance and appealed to some creative thinking on his part which is not going to be accepted by anybody who was not born yesterday.
Paul, get a band of merry men (and women) and set up a little search party to find all these ‘relentless personal attacks’ and insults.
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Salaam
Paul Williams knows in his heart he is telling the truth when he is against Adnan Rashid, Al- Andalusi and Hamza Tzotzi
Ijaz and Yahya Snow also knows in their heart they are telling the truth when they are against Jonathan.
All involved personal attacks. I have been watching Yahya Snow’s videos. Yahya, keep it up and Allah will reward your wonderful work to stop the lies against Islam. Do not be distracted. I am with you.
Thanks.
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You are most welcome Sir Paul Williams, Anytime. Something strikes out here to me maybe i am wrong but i am gonna say anyway. If someone I repeat IF someone trying to create a discord or use a method of divide and conquer, It never I mean NEVER gonna happen, just forget it (Not accusing anyone of anything.). Despite our differences we are still one Ummah community.
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Sadiq, it’s good to have a positive attitude as you are showing. I guess the question becomes, is it possible to maintain unity when attacks become personal? On the one hand, when it comes to apologetics, one needs to develop a thick skin to be sure. On the other hand, it can be frustrating when attacks become in-house. Anyway, I’m not a Muslim, but I do hope that everyone can move forward from this experience having gained a greater measure of wisdom.
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Constructive criticism MUST always be welcome because you learn a lot from it.No one is perfect and yes, one has to have a THICK skin when he is in this field, otherwise he should bow out! As brother Nouman Ali Khan once said “If someone corrected your mistake and you got offended by that then you have an ego problem”.
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@royal It’s the way that sort of video works. It’s obvious they are from different time frames and contexts. Clips of movie characters are used as well as James white’s remarks.
@the troll who reposted my comment as ‘yahya snow says’, why do that?
@intelllect thanks for your encouragement.
This is my last comment on here so if anybody wants to make a comment to me please do so via email
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Intellect wrote…
“Yahya, keep it up and Allah will reward your wonderful work to stop the lies against Islam. Do not be distracted. I am with you.”
My Response:
So you are against Paul Williams?
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Robert Wells
Paul Williams is a Muslims and his blog has energized Muslims to stand up against your lies against Islam. We supported him and stood with/by him and defended him from you(Christians) personal attacks especially from you Robert Wells.
We are all human beings and not perfect and do not necessarily agree with others but we remain brothers. Paul Williams do accept criticisms and advice and sometimes attacks from you Christians on his own blog.
This shows how open he is to pursuing the truth. Paul does not agree to everything I say. I also do not agree everything he says and we express our disagreement and move on to defend Islam as brothers against people like you(Robert Wells).
Thanks
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Yahya have you ever come accross the logical fallacy known as tu quoque?
I fear you just committed that error.
Besides which, the examples you allude to in my past are quite different to the present case of you and CC which are in the dissimilar context of dawah with Christians.
My personal grievances against the man who calls himself ‘Abdullah’ are well known and involve very serious allegations of theft and so forth. My recent piece about ‘Abdullah’ on this site was published publically because another website had published an inaccurate article about me and Adam Deen that needed an appropriate response.
My beef with Adnan Rasheed concerned a piece he published on the IERA website calling on all UK Isocs to boycott Dr Shabir Ally, and labeling him a deviant. As Shabir is a friend I felt honour bound to defend him in public. No one else (to my knowledge) defended Shabir from the Andan’s outrageous nastyness. To my knowledge you did not speak out Yahya. Many Muslims called me horrid names as a result of my action. But I would do it again.
My beef with you and CC is of a quite different nature – the gratuitous personal attacks on Jonathan which are becoming increasingly mean and hyperbolic. The evidence is pervasive, though you do not acknowledge it.
It seems it is open season for Muslim polemicists to take pot shots at him virtually every day.
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