Daniel 7:13-14 Messiah Jesus God?

worth a read…

Discover The Truth

بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

Kaleef K. Karim

Trinitarian Jesus-worshippers hold to the belief that Daniel 7:13-14 proves the deity of Jesus, and that he should be “worshipped.” According to trinitarians the Aramaic word “פלח” (Pelach) is used in the passage, then that proves the deity of the Messiah. They say, “the word פלח (Pelach) is used for God alone and it has never been used for humans (besides Jesus).” As we will examine the verse, you will know the word פלח (Pelach) is used for others beside God, saints, ministers etc.

New International Version (©2011) Daniel 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and Peoples of every language worshiped (Pelach or Pelakh) him

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Categories: Islam

71 replies

  1. The problem with the screen shot is they do not analyze each word – ( this is from http://www.blueletterbible.org – it is the same, but go there and put in Daniel 7 and see the verses above and below, not just the parsing box. the parsing box does not have every word, and only the parsing box was in the screen shot.)

    Both Daniel 7:14 and 7:27 have לֵהּ = “to him” (singular)

    7:14 has it twice.

    וְלֵהּ = “and to him” (at the beginning, “And to him was given . . )

    לֵהּ = “to him” (before the word for serve, worship, פלח

    7:14 וְלֵהּ יְהִיב שָׁלְטָן וִיקָר וּמַלְכוּ וְכֹל עַֽמְמַיָּא אֻמַיָּא וְלִשָּׁנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן שָׁלְטָנֵהּ שָׁלְטָן עָלַם דִּֽי־לָא יֶעְדֵּה וּמַלְכוּתֵהּ דִּי־לָא תִתְחַבַּֽל׃

    7:27 וּמַלְכוּתָה וְשָׁלְטָנָא וּרְבוּתָא דִּי מַלְכְוָת תְּחֹות כָּל־שְׁמַיָּא יְהִיבַת לְעַם קַדִּישֵׁי עֶלְיֹונִין מַלְכוּתֵהּ מַלְכוּת עָלַם וְכֹל שָׁלְטָנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן וְיִֽשְׁתַּמְּעֽוּן׃

    Also, פלח, was translated in the LXX (The Septuagint) into Greek by λατρευω (λατρευουσα – “worshipping”
    λατρευω / latreuo – is only used of worship and serving God. That is why Jesus said in Matthew 4:10 – “. . . you shall worship the LORD your God and serve Him only.” – Jesus quoting from Deuteronomy 6:13 and 10:20.

    The saints also receive the kingdom also – Revelation 5:9-10 interprets Daniel 7. after Revelation 5:9 comes Revelation 5:10. Rev. 5:9 is about people redeemed from all nations by the blood of the lamb and throughout the chapter they are worshiping Him who sits on the throne and the lamb. (see Revelation 5:13-14)

    but also Rev. 5:10 says, “you have made them (the saints who have been bought by the blood of the lamb from all nations in verse 9) to be a kingdom of priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

    Plus Jesus Al Masih Himself quotes both Daniel 7:13-14 and Psalm 110 that it is about Him as “the Son of Man” who goes up to the ancient of Days on the clouds of heaven, and that He will sit at the right hand of Power (The Most High, God the Father), in Mark 14:60-64, and the Jews and the high priest and Pharisees understood that He was claiming to the Messiah, the Son of God. “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” Jesus said, “I am”.

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  2. Temple, are you sure you are Trinitarian?

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  3. Because of your comments above

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  4. Both Daniel 7:14 and 7:27 have “to him” is given worship. to the son of man (Son), who is with the Ancient of Days.(the Father)
    So there are 2 persons of the Holy Trinity (Father and Son/Word) here in Daniel, but only one God in substance and nature.

    I took one quarter of Biblical Aramaic in Seminary in 1987; (back then some schools still went by quarters instead of semesters) and got out my Aramaic grammar and Lexicon. Though I have forgotten a lot of it, I can work with it and recognize that. (above)

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  5. Ken Temple

    You said;
    Both Daniel 7:14 and 7:27 have “to him” is given worship. to the son of man (Son), who is with the Ancient of Days.(the Father)
    So there are 2 persons of the Holy Trinity (Father and Son/Word) here in Daniel, but only one God in substance and nature.

    I say;
    So, in the ancient days, the Son is Father? Did I get you right? So the Son was once the Father? But the Trinitarians say the Son is not the Father, so Trinity is not true here. Besides a Son is someone who was begotten by a Father and that is literal but metaphorical Father will disqualify Jesus from the only begotten or unique son of God but all of us as sons of God. Generating means creating and God Almighty is not generated/created n
    or the Son/son of anyone.

    2 Persons/persons one God and every Person/person is a being. A Person/person who is not a being is not a Person/person. Divine being, Angelic being, demonic being, satanic being all are beings but two beings are two beings or two Persons/persons and every person or being is distinct. The Bible says God is One, Only and Alone divine being. Saying God is 2 or 3 Persons/persons is just saying God is 2 or 3 beings i.e. either combination of human and divine beings or 3 divine being and that is polytheism.

    No where in the Bible does it say God is 3 persons/beings.

    Thanks.

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  6. Temple “So there are 2 persons of the Holy Trinity (Father and Son/Word) here in Daniel, but only one God in substance and nature.”

    Non-sequitur

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  7. The Father is not the Son, they are two persons, but One God, with the Holy Spirit. 3 persons, one God.

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1

    “the Word was with God” = personal relationship
    “the Word was God” = God by nature, substance, essence

    Jesus was and is the Word, who was both with God the Father and was God by substance, essence.

    See this – “Greek Grammar points to Sola Scriptura and the doctrine of the Trinity

    http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/07/greek-grammar-points-to-sola-scriptura.html

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  8. Temple, In Daniel you have 2 separate entities, two beings, two selves.
    Your statement “So there are 2 persons of the Holy Trinity (Father and Son/Word) here in Daniel, but only one God in substance and nature.” is a non sequitur.

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  9. Since there is only one God(Mark 12:29; Deut. 6:4; 1 Timothy 2:5), the disciples of Jesus, and their students, the early church fathers had to interpret all the written Scriptures and so, they saw the Scriptures teach a distinction between substance/nature/essence vs. person and personhood / centers of relationship. Since the Father loves the Son and sends the Son and the Son prays to the Father, and the Father and Son send the Spirit and the Spirit testifies to the Son and glorifies the Son, they are three persons, but one God, one nature/substance/essence. It is a harmonization of all the Scriptural texts.

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  10. The writer of Daniel knows nothing about a tri-une God. Neither did Jesus (as) nor the disciples. There is no tri-une God mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

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  11. The Trinitas Unitas (three in one) of God was revealed slowly as the Scriptures progressed. There are at least two persons of the Trinity revealed in Daniel 7:13-14. The Holy Spirit is later revealed on Pentecost in Acts chapters 1-2; and was explained by Jesus in John chapters 14 and 16. The Trinity (Trinitas Unitas) is putting all of Scripture together – those passages about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus did know the Trinity, as He was the eternal Son who became flesh (John 1:1-5; 1:14) – He said, “Father, glorify Me and restore Me to the glory that I had with You before the world was created.” John 17:5

    Jesus also said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Matthew 28:19 Matthew, Peter, John were eyewitnesses and wrote of these things.

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  12. But the main point is that the article at “Discover the Truth” is wrong. “to Him” is there several times – the kingdom was given “to Him” (the son of man) and worship is to be given “to Him”.

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    • Let us not forget this fact:

      James L. Mays, Professor of Hebrew and the Old Testament Emeritus at Union Theological Seminary in Richmond, Virginia says:

      “It seems clear here that the one to whom was given dominion and glory and kingdom… and his kingdoms one that shall not be destroyed (7:14 rsv) is a human being namely, the Saints of the Most High (vv.18,22,27). That identification emerges in the exposition of the dream that Daniel receives from one of the heavenly court. The interpreter assures this community through the writer of the Book of Daniel that in a very short time- a time, two times, and half a time (v.25) – the dominion would be taken from the hands of the tyrant and given to the Saints to rule forever and ever. In short these people are the wave of the future and the future is at hand.”[4]

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  13. Temple: “The Trinitas Unitas (three in one) of God was revealed slowly as the Scriptures progressed.”

    The trinity is NOT revealed anywhere in the Bible.

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  14. Paul,
    Those quotes fail to deal with the clear Aramaic phrase “to him” (singular) לה (which I showed above). the kingdom and the worship is given to the Son of Man who rides on clouds up to the Ancient of Days. (the ascension of Christ)

    That is the main point, I have shown clearly that “Discover the truth” ‘s article is wrong.

    Daniel was written by the prophet Daniel around 500 BC. He saw the Persian kings conquer Babylon and release the Jews back to Israel. Daniel 6:28 – in the days of Darius the Mede, and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Darius the Mede was under Cyrus, in charge of the western part of the Persian Empire, namely Babylon, which they conquered in 536-539 BC.

    The main reason by those OT scholars judge Daniel to be a 2nd Century forgery is because they cannot believe in predictive prophesy, and they all admit that the prophesies of Daniel are amazingly accurate, especially the coming of Greece to conquer Persia and the details about Alexander the Great and Antiochus Ephiphanies IV, who offered a pig on the altar in the Jewish temple in 167 BC and was an abomination of desolation (Daniel 11:31).

    You constantly use these kinds of liberal scholars, but, (you and all other Muslims who read this), as a Muslim who believes in Allah and miracles and predictive prophesy and supernatural working in this world, you should believe the book of Daniel, since Isa Al Masih also affirmed in Matthew 24:15 / Mark 13:14 – pointing back to Daniel 9:24-27 and the prophesy of the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

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    • Ken you need to develop a critical awareness that just because a text (Christian, Islamic or whatever) claims to be by a prophet and contains alleged predictions does NOT make it authentic. This is abc of scholarship.

      There are plenty of Christian scholars who accept prophesy but judge the book claiming to be written by Daniel to be written centuries after Daniel for sound textual and historical reasons. Consult a standard commentary. Your uncritical fundamentalism is a dogmatic rejection of intelligent reading of the Bible.

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    • Btw who is this ‘Isa Al Masih’ you keep mentioning? Could you comment in the English language please.

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  15. Burhanuddin1:

    The Trinity (Trinitas Unitas) is clearly taught in the Bible.

    Matthew 28:19 – baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    2 Corinthians 13:14 – “May the Love of God (the Father), and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Son) and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”

    Other passages are in Matthew 3:13-16 (Jesus’ baptism), Ephesians 1, 4, I Peter 1, I Cor. 12 – they show the three – Father, Son, and Spirit.

    The doctrine that there is only one God is also clear. (Mark 12:29; Deut. 6:4, Isaiah chapters 40-66, 1 Tim. 2:5, 1 Cor. 8:6)

    That the Father and Son speak to each other and love each other in the Gospels shows that they have personal relationship with one another – which is why we say they are distinct persons, along with the Holy Spirit, who is clearly taught to be a person who will come later, by Jesus – in John chapters 14 and 16.

    The Deity of Jesus the Messiah is also clearly taught – John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8; Colossians 1:15-20; Hebrews 1:3, 6, 8, 10-12; John 20:28; Romans 9:5; John 10:30; 8:56-58; 5:17-18, etc.

    In Acts 5:3-5, Peter says to Ananias and Saphira, “why do you lie to the Holy Spirit?” and “you have not lied to men, but to God”, showing further that the Holy Spirit is God.

    Therefore, putting all of these truths together, the doctrine of the Trinity is taught in the Bible.

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    • Ken. You say ‘Putting these truths together’. That is the problem. The NT does not do this because it does not teach the trinity, that is three co-equal persons in 1 God. You have to bring your doctrine to the Bible to get your outcome.

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  16. Isa Al Masih – you don’t know that?

    عیسی المسیح = Jesus the Messiah, or “Jesus Christ”

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  17. Temple: “There are at least two persons of the Trinity revealed in Daniel 7:13-14.”

    No, Temple, In Daniel you have 2 separate entities, two beings, two selves. Are you sure you are Trinitarian?

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  18. Temple, The trinity is NOT revealed anywhere in the Bible. Where does the tri-une being reveal himself? Like, I am God, I am three persons in one substance etc.? Nowhere. Because a tri-une God does not exist. It is a man made philosophical self refuting concept.

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  19. Three good scholarly commentaries on Daniel that defend the orthodox date of 500 BC and authorship of Daniel the prophet are:
    E. J. Young’s commentary on Daniel
    Tremper Longman III
    Ian M. Duguid

    Also,
    Donald J. Wiseman
    Gleason Archer in “Introduction to the OT”
    and
    Dwight Pentecost, in the NT Bible Knowledge commentary defend the traditional date.

    there are many others who use believing scholarship.

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  20. You have to bring your doctrine to the Bible to get your outcome.

    No; if you study all those verses and take the time to slow down and meditate on them; the verses are first and older than the doctrine; and they forced the early church fathers to come up with the idea of One God in substance, and three in person, based on all those verses together. (Ignatius calls Jesus “our God” 5 ( + ?) times in his seven letters around 110 AD. Justin Martyr (165 AD) speaks of the Deity of Christ by the Logos principle and John 1:1 and 1:14; Irenaeus (180-200 AD), Tertullian (200), Cyprian and Origen(250), Clement (215), Athanasius(325-373), Hillary of Poitiers (310-367 AD), the Cappadocian fathers, Gregory Nazansius, Basil, Gregory of Nyssa (381), Ambrose (380s-400), Augustine (396-430), Chrysostom (380s-407), Jerome (400), etc. all do the same thing – they based the doctrine on all those Scripture (and more) that I clearly showed you.

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  21. Paul,
    Are you kidding me, or do you know that Isa = Jesus, and Al Masih = the Messiah / The Christ ?

    I know you are joking.

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  22. But the main point is that the article at “Discover the Truth” is wrong. “to Him” is there several times – the kingdom was given “to Him” (the son of man) and worship is to be given “to Him”.

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  23. “Despite the numerous objections which have been advanced by scholars who regard this as a prophesy written after the event, here is no good reason for denying to the sixth Century Daniel the composition of the entire work.” ( ibid, below, page 387)
    “The most likely date for the final edition of the book ( of Daniel) , therefore, would be 530 BC.” (Gleason Archer, “Survey of Old Testament Introduction”, page 387.)

    Believing Jews also believe that it was written by the prophet Daniel and in 530 BC.

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  24. Temple “… – they based the doctrine on all those Scripture (and more) that I clearly showed you.”

    Just like the “heretics”, who based their doctrines on all the same Scripture (and more) that you clearly showed.

    Clear proof that he trinity is NOT revealed, but a man made concept like all false man made concepts about God.

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  25. But the main point is that the article at “Discover the Truth” is wrong. “to Him” is there several times – the kingdom was given “to Him” (the son of man) and worship is to be given “to Him”. Daniel 7:13-14

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  26. Ken, you’re wrong.

    15 Different Bible translations disagree with you and agree with Discover The Truth that Holy Saints receive this service. All of them say “THEM”. Are you trying to say that you know more than Aramaic/Biblical scholars who have studied whole their lives?

    Translations that disagree with YOU:

    1. Concordant Version of the Old Testament Daniel 7:27 And the Kingdom and the jurisdiction and the majesty of the kingdom under the entire heavens will be granted to the people of the saints of the supremacies. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all other authorities shall serve and hearken to THEM.

    2. New Century version Daniel 7:27 – Then the holy people who belong to the Most High God will have the power to rule. They will rule over all the kingdoms under heaven with power and greatness, and their power to rule will last forever. People from all the other kingdoms will respect and serve THEM.’

    3. The Message Daniel 7:27 – Then the royal rule and the authority and the glory of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the people of the High God. Their royal rule will last forever. All other rulers will serve and obey THEM.’

    4. English revised version Daniel 7:27 – Then God’s special people will rule the kingdom. And they will rule over all the people from all the kingdoms of earth. This kingdom will last forever. And people from all the other kingdoms will respect and serve THEM.’

    5. God’s word Translation Daniel 7:27 – The kingdom, along with the power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven, will be given to the holy people of the Most High. Their kingdom is eternal. All other powers will serve and obey THEM.”

    6. Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) Daniel 7:27 Then the kingdom, the rulership and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the holy people of the Most High. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey THEM.

    7. English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK) Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey THEM.’

    8. Expanded Bible (EXB) Daniel 7:27 Then the holy •people [ones] who belong to the Most High God [v. 18] will have the power to rule. They will rule over all the kingdoms under heaven with power and greatness, and their power to rule will last forever. People from all the other kingdoms will respect [fear] and serve [obey] THEM.’

    9. Good News Translation (GNT) Daniel 7:27 The power and greatness of all the kingdoms on earth will be given to the people of the Supreme God. Their royal power will never end, and all rulers on earth will serve and obey THEM.”

    10. Names of God Bible (NOG) Daniel 7:27 The kingdom, along with the power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven, will be given to the holy people of the Elyonin. Their kingdom is eternal. All other powers will serve and obey THEM.”

    11. New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) Daniel 7:27 The kingship and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the holy ones of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey THEM.”

    12. New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA) Daniel 7:27 The kingship and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the holy ones of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey THEM.’

    13. New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE) Daniel 7:27 The kingship and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the holy ones of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey THEM.’

    14. Revised Standard Version (RSV) Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey THEM.’

    15. Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE) Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey THEM.’

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  27. I have just written this article, which may be of relevance:

    ‘O Daniel, where art thou? No longer in the Bible it seems…’

    https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/10/29/where-art-thou-daniel-no-longer-in-the-bible-it-seems/

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  28. You left out Daniel 7:14.

    You only focused on Daniel 7:27
    Most of those English versions that you gave are not even used by most people. Some of them I never even heard of.

    But all of them agree that Daniel 7:14 has לה – “to him” twice – “to him was given a kingdom” and “they worship or serve him” (singular).

    Yes, those do have “them” or “to them”; but the most accurate and more widely used English versions (except ESV and RSV are widely used) have “to him” or “him” (singular) in Daniel 7:27. Some do, as you have pointed out, like the ESV and RSV. The ESV has marginal notes that it could be understood either way.

    I think that Daniel 7:14 is clear, but the reason why SOME have “them” for Daniel 7:27 is because of the earlier plural “the saints” or “the holy people”. But the second prepositional phrase in Daniel 7:27 is literally singular, ‘to him”. I can see the Aramaic there לה or – לֵהּ

    The ones you chose to give made an interpretive decision based on the earlier plural “saints”, or “holy ones”; but the Aramaic is literally, “to him” (singular).

    So, I am not wrong, rather you are wrong.

    Daniel 7:27
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

    NIV – New International Version:
    27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

    King James Version:

    27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

    New King James Version:
    Then the kingdom and dominion,
    And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
    Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
    His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
    And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

    Holman Christian Standard:
    27 The kingdom, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the holy ones of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.’

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  29. Paul,
    Except Jesus Al Masih (Jesus the Christ) said that Daniel the prophet wrote the book of Daniel. Matthew 24:15 (“spoken of by the prophet Daniel”)

    And there are believing scholars who believe Daniel wrote it, in 530 BC.

    The ones you quote are liberal. Raymond Brown and Fitzmeyer were both liberal Roman Catholic scholars.

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  30. Ken, again do you think you know more than Aramaic/Biblical scholars?

    The “THEM” is used because this service “pelakh” is also for the Holy saints. Hence the claim by trinitarians that say that the “service” is for God alone and no one else is a lie which has no backing when looking at scripture. The holy saints also receive this service which disqualifies trinitarian interpretation on 7:27:

    As Professor Montogomery James Alan says,

    “Note; inf. V.27 the people of the saints are the object of this SERVICE” [8]

    Lastly, the 15 translations for 7:27 as being “them” are all Christian trinitarian scholars who are qualified unlike you 😉

    Any ways the word you keep propping up לה can you send me a link similar to blueletterbible.org that explains the word in detail, thanks.

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  31. The blueletterbible.org has the Aramaic prepositional phrase, to him, in the verse itself before the parsing box. You have to look carefully. Unfortunately, there is not a website that I know of right now that explains the word, but I can see there, and in my own Hebrew Bible and in my Hebrew language software (Accordance).

    Another problem is that the bolding function does not work very well with the Hebrew font, since it is a right to left function, etc. I cannot make the right words bold, but I am experiementing on the first word. But if you look at the whole verses, you can see the word twice in Daniel 7:14 and once in 7:27 and the singular “to him”
    לֵהּ
    is used with the word, PLKH פלח

    Both Daniel 7:14 and 7:27 have לֵהּ = “to him” (singular)

    7:14 has it twice.

    וְלֵהּ = “and to him” (at the beginning, “And to him was given . . )

    לֵהּ = “to him” (before the word for serve, worship, פלח

    7:14 וְלֵהּ
    יְהִיב שָׁלְטָן וִיקָר וּמַלְכוּ וְכֹל עַֽמְמַיָּא אֻמַיָּא וְלִשָּׁנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן שָׁלְטָנֵהּ שָׁלְטָן עָלַם דִּֽי־לָא יֶעְדֵּה וּמַלְכוּתֵהּ דִּי־לָא תִתְחַבַּֽל׃

    7:27 וּמַלְכוּתָה וְשָׁלְטָנָא וּרְבוּתָא דִּי מַלְכְוָת תְּחֹות כָּל־שְׁמַיָּא יְהִיבַת לְעַם קַדִּישֵׁי עֶלְיֹונִין מַלְכוּתֵהּ מַלְכוּת עָלַם וְכֹל שָׁלְטָנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן וְיִֽשְׁתַּמְּעֽוּן׃

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  32. It was all there in my first entry and as I explained, the Hebrew phrase “to him” is there twice in Daniel 7:14 and once at the end in 7:27 with “pelakh” פלח – it is right before the pelakh form.

    Only some translations translate לֵהּ as “to them” at the end of Daniel 7:27. They base on the plural of the “holy ones” or “saints” at the beginning of the verse.

    Both Daniel 7:14 and 7:27 have לֵהּ = “to him” (singular)

    7:14 has it twice.

    וְלֵהּ = “and to him” (at the beginning, “And to him was given . . )

    לֵהּ = “to him” (before the word for serve, worship, פלח

    7:14 וְלֵהּ יְהִיב שָׁלְטָן וִיקָר וּמַלְכוּ וְכֹל עַֽמְמַיָּא אֻמַיָּא וְלִשָּׁנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן שָׁלְטָנֵהּ שָׁלְטָן עָלַם דִּֽי־לָא יֶעְדֵּה וּמַלְכוּתֵהּ דִּי־לָא תִתְחַבַּֽל׃

    7:27 וּמַלְכוּתָה וְשָׁלְטָנָא וּרְבוּתָא דִּי מַלְכְוָת תְּחֹות כָּל־שְׁמַיָּא יְהִיבַת לְעַם קַדִּישֵׁי עֶלְיֹונִין מַלְכוּתֵהּ מַלְכוּת עָלַם וְכֹל שָׁלְטָנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן וְיִֽשְׁתַּמְּעֽוּן׃

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  33. I wrote a lot of stuff, but it appears that Paul has put me on moderation.

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  34. the לה ” to him” ל = to, toward, for and ה = him. (without the vowel pointing – my Hebrew software does not allow me to type the vowels) The vowels are in it below – I copied and pasted from the verse above the parsing box that you put up at your “Discover the truth” site.

    7:14 has it twice.

    וְלֵהּ = “and to him” (at the beginning, “And to him was given . . )

    לֵהּ = “to him” (before the word for serve, worship, פלח

    7:14 וְלֵהּ יְהִיב שָׁלְטָן וִיקָר וּמַלְכוּ וְכֹל עַֽמְמַיָּא אֻמַיָּא וְלִשָּׁנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן שָׁלְטָנֵהּ שָׁלְטָן עָלַם דִּֽי־לָא יֶעְדֵּה וּמַלְכוּתֵהּ דִּי־לָא תִתְחַבַּֽל׃

    7:27 וּמַלְכוּתָה וְשָׁלְטָנָא וּרְבוּתָא דִּי מַלְכְוָת תְּחֹות כָּל־שְׁמַיָּא יְהִיבַת לְעַם קַדִּישֵׁי עֶלְיֹונִין מַלְכוּתֵהּ מַלְכוּת עָלַם וְכֹל שָׁלְטָנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן וְיִֽשְׁתַּמְּעֽוּן׃

    You have to start on the right side (like Arabic) and notice the words and go one by one carefully and you can see them there (2 in Daniel 7:14), and the one in 7:27 (right before the pelakh / פלח verb לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּןת and you can also notice it is not analyzed in the parsing box that you put up as a screen shot.

    since 7:14 is clearly “to him” twice, in all the English versions, and you can see it in 7:27, and some versions do translate it “to him” there; you should be able to understand what I am saying is reasonable.

    Again, the reason why SOME translators translated it “them” is because of the plural “holy ones” or “saints” in the first part of the verse. They made an interpretive decision on 7:27; but literally, in 7:14 it is clearly “to him”, twice.

    I tried to find another web-site with analysis of them, but I could not. But I found it in my Aramaic grammar and also in the Standard Hebrew – Aramaic Lexicon by Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius.

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  35. Thanks Paul for noticing the spam action.

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  36. only because you brought it to my attention!

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  37. With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful

    Daniel 7:13-14

    חָזֵ֤ה הֲוֵית֙ בְּחֶזְוֵ֣י לֵֽילְיָ֔א וַֽאֲרוּ֙ עִם־עֲנָנֵ֣י שְׁמַיָּ֔א כְּבַ֥ר אֱנָ֖שׁ אָתֵ֣ה הֲוָ֑א וְעַד־עֲתִּ֤יק יֽוֹמַיָּא֙ מְטָ֔ה וּקְדָמ֖וֹהִי הַקְרְבֽוּהִי׃ וְלֵ֨הּ יְהִ֤ב שָׁלְטָן֙ וִיקָ֣ר וּמַלְכ֔וּ וְכֹ֣ל עַֽמְמַיָּ֗א אֻמַּיָ֛א וְלִשָּֽׁנַיָּ֖א לֵ֣הּ יִפְלְח֑וּן שָׁלְטָנֵּ֞הּ שָׁלְטָ֤ן עָלַם֙ דִּי־לָ֣א יֶעְדֵּ֔ה וּמַלְכוּתֵ֖הּ דִּי־לָ֥א תִתְחַבַּֽל׃

     

    Daniel 7: 13 actually was a vision (a dream) and does not talk about “a son of man”; it actually says כְּבַר אֱנָשׁ k’var enash, “[something] like a human being” not var enash בַר אֱנָשׁ . The Kaf ( כ ) here provides an important distinction.

    Daniel 7: 14 does not say anything about anyone “worshipping” anybody; the word it actually uses is יִפְלְחוּן “yiflechun”, “they will serve [in the sense of work for] him”.

    Yiflechun is a conjugated Aramaic verb (root פלח (pé, lammed, ḥet) that means “they will serve”. It does not necessarily mean worship as in worship to God but can mean to serve holy men.

    Right on the same chapter we read in 27 that

    וּמַלְכוּתָא וְשָׁלְטָנָא וּרְבוּתָא דִּי מַלְכְוָת תְּחוֹת כָּל שְׁמַיָּא יְהִיבַת לְעַם קַדִּישֵׁי עֶלְיוֹנִין מַלְכוּתֵהּ מַלְכוּת עָלַם וְכֹל שָׁלְטָנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן וְיִשְׁתַּמְּעוּן

    And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under all the heavens will be given to the people of the high holy ones יְהִיבַת לְעַם קַדִּישֵׁי עֶלְיוֹנִין; its kingdom is a perpetual kingdom, and all dominions will serve יִפְלְחוּן and obey (them).

    It is clear that this is the Holy people who receive this service.

    Sacra scriptura sui ipsius interpres

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  38. Ken, I been looking for the word לֵהּ in Hebrew/English Lexicons I cant find it. Here is two lexicons, can you locate the word for me?

    https://archive.org/stream/hebrewchaldeelex00geseuoft#page/n7/mode/2up

    And

    https://archive.org/stream/englishhebrewlex00pottuoft#page/n5/mode/2up

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  39. Could not find it under those that you linked to, but I found it under this one:
    The Aramaic part is small and is at the very back of the Lexicon.

    page 1098 of this Lexicon. under ל – ל = preposition = to, for, toward, in regard to, at; and under that is לֵהּ = to him. seems to also say “belonging to”, and “his”.

    https://archive.org/details/hebrewenglishlex00browuoft

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  40. Ken, “belonging to” can also be referred to the Holy Saints. Any ways the word you been לֵהּ pasting doesnt show that it has a meaning.

    I will dig a little bit more in different Lexicons see if they will give a fuller meaning for it…

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  41. Also, under “Pelakh” פלח = “to reverence, serve a deity” (see page 1108 below)

    https://archive.org/details/hebrewenglishlex00browuoft

    “First, in every reference where this word is used in the Aramaic portions of the Old Testament it is always the service or worship belonging to God or the service or worship pagans give to false gods. In fact there are places which explicitly show that pelach should only be given to God. Therefore according to the Old Testament it refers to service/worship of deity. It is never generic service or reverence which one shows to a superior or a man approved by God in the Old Testament.

    “The word is used in Ezra 7:24 of “servants of this house of God” – divine service towards God. The word is used in Daniel 3:12 of divine service to false gods. It’s used in Daniel 3:17 of divine service to the true God. It’s used of Daniel’s friends Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in Daniel 3:18 with respect to a refusal to offer divine service to false gods. In Daniel 3:28 the word is used in reference to the divine service only God is to receive where we are told that Daniel’s friends “yielded up their bodies rather than serve and worship any god except their own God.” It’s also used in 6:16, 20 with respect to divine service to God. The word is also used in Daniel 7:27 in reference to service to God despite the fact that this text is often misunderstood as referring to service towards the saints of God.(6)

    “The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon assigns to pelach the following meaning: “pay reverence to, serve (deity)”(8), and it attaches the latter meaning to Daniel 7:14’s use of the word as well. In agreement is Stephan R. Miller who in his commentary on Daniel notes that “… in every other instance where the verb פְּלַח (‘worship’; ‘serve,’ NRSV) occurs in biblical Aramaic (nine times), it has reference to service (worship) rendered a deity (Dan 3:12, 12, 17-18, 28; 6:16[17], 20[21]; 7:14; Ezra 7:24).”(9)”

    from Keith Thompson’s article “Daniel 7:13-14 and Christ’s Deity”

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  42. The LXX / Septuagint, Greek translation of the Aramaic of Daniel 7:14 (this is there at the blueletterbible web site that you got the parsing box screen shot from. You can see it there.

    καὶ αὐτῷ ἐδόθη ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ ἡ τιμὴ καὶ ἡ βασιλεία καὶ πάντες οἱ λαοί φυλαί γλῶσσαι αὐτῷ δουλεύσουσιν ἡ ἐξουσία αὐτοῦ ἐξουσία αἰώνιος ἥτις οὐ παρελεύσεται καὶ ἡ βασιλεία αὐτοῦ οὐ διαφθαρήσεται

    αὐτῷ = to him (singular, dative)

    “And to Him was given dominion,
    Glory and a kingdom,
    That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
    Might serve Him.
    His dominion is an everlasting dominion
    Which will not pass away;
    And His kingdom is one
    Which will not be destroyed.

    It is clear and your article is refuted.

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  43. The Greek LXX translation of the Aramaic of Daniel 7:27. Remember the Jews translated the OT from sometime between 280 BC to 150 BC.

    καὶ ἡ βασιλεία καὶ ἡ ἐξουσία καὶ ἡ μεγαλωσύνη τῶν βασιλέων τῶν ὑποκάτω παντὸς τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ἐδόθη ἁγίοις ὑψίστου καὶ ἡ βασιλεία αὐτοῦ βασιλεία αἰώνιος καὶ πᾶσαι αἱ ἀρχαὶ αὐτῷ δουλεύσουσιν καὶ ὑπακούσονται

    ‘and the Kingdom/sovereignty, and the dominion/authority and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to saints of the Highest One; and His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.

    αὐτῷ = “to him” (singular, dative)

    So again, your article is refuted.

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  44. Prepositional לֵ֥הּ in the context of Daniel 7:27 must refer to  them not  to him, because the context must be within the very same verse that is  yehibath le’am qaddishei elyonin the people of the high holy ones יְהִיבַת לְעַם קַדִּישֵׁי עֶלְיוֹנִין 

     

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  45. Why rely on LXX translation?  JPS translation from mechon mamre we read in Daniel 7:

    27 And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.’

    This does away any claim that the prepositional לֵ֥הּ belongs to him , It refer to them.

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  46. But the same prepositional phrase is used twice in Daniel 7:14 and it means “to him”.

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  47. With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful

    You can not make a connection in a slam-dunk fashion.

    For argument sake, suppose Daniel 7 is genuine prophecy, I try to summarise the  flow of narration in the following:

    • Ancient One takes his throne: symbolism for God
    • a being like a human approaches the Ancient One is given everlasting kingship:symbolism for man of God ie Prophet of God.
    • A heavenly being explains the vision: the four beasts are four earthly kingdoms.
    • The holy ones of the Most High shall receive and possess the kingdom forever.
    • The fourth beast will overthrow three kingdom and make war on the “holy ones of God”, and attempt to change the the law
    • Eventually the beast will be destroyed, and the holy ones will possess the eternal kingdom.

    A being like a human (God final prophet) comes in clouds → Given everlasting dominion (him) → He gives it to the saints (them)

    Both Daniel 7:14 (him) and 27 (them) use the verb יִפְלְחוּן , the only logical conclusion is the verb means “to serve” some authority therefore it does not mean worship as in worship God.

    From Muslim perspective this narration can fit nicely to prophet Muhammad who as the seal of  prophets was given the Shari’ah, the God’s law, and built vast the territory of a sovereign kingdom (Islamic nation) in the holy land then he passed this on to the true practising muslims who keep and practice the Shari’ah in their life, the holy ones. Many evil forces and deviated nations will fight the muslims and wipe out the Shari’ah  but eventually they all will be destroyed, and the muslims will regain the eternal (Islamic) kingdom where God’s law is upheld.

     

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  48. except Isa Al Masih (Jesus the Christ, عیسی المسیح
    600 years before Muhammad claimed that Daniel 7:13-14 was about himself – Mark 14:60-64.

    That is a slam dunk.

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  49. As the Aramaic section of the Lexicon says,

    The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew- Aramaic and English Lexicon assigns to pelach פלח the following meaning: pay reverence to, serve a deity (a god, false gods, idols and the True God).

    Daniel 3:12
    ״There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the administration of the province of Babylon, namely Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. These men, O king, have disregarded you; they do not serve your gods or worship the golden image which you have set up.”

    Daniel 3:17-18
    If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. 18 But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.”

    see also:
    Daniel 3:14
    Daniel 3:28
    Daniel 6:16
    Daniel 6:20
    Daniel 7:14
    Daniel 7:27
    Ezra 7:24

    It is a slam dunk.

    Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’” Matthew 4:10

    Jesus received that kind of worship that is only for God, and claimed to be that son of man coming on the clouds who goes up, ascends to the ancient of Days (the Father) and receives the kingdom and worship.

    Jesus was and is God in the flesh (John 1:14 – “And the Word became flesh”).

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  50. With the name of Allah

     

    In Traditional Aramaic Ketubah כְּתוּבָּה  (the marriage contract that every Jewish bride receives) taken from Rabbinical Council of America , we read:

    …הוי לי לאנתו כדת משה וישראל ואנא אפלח ואוקיר ואיזון ואפרנס יתיכי ליכי כהלכות גוברין יהודאין דפלחין ומוקרין וזנין ומפרנסין לנשיהון בקושטא…

    “Be my wife according to the law of Moses and of Israel, and I will serve, cherish, feed and  support you, in the manner of all Jewish men who faithfully serve, cherish, feed and support their wives….”

    The Aramaic text of Ketubah כְּתוּבָּה   is believed was written during the Babylonian exile (600 BCE). The words in emphasis  are both inflections of the verb  פלח “to serve”—  impossible to think that  the husband “worship” his wife as a god.

    Even worse, to believe that human being like received that kind of worship that is only for God.

    That is a slam dunk.

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  51. Jesus combined the concepts and words together in Matthew 4:10 – “You shall worship and serve the LORD your God only.”

    In the context of Daniel, the human writer, Daniel the prophet, used the Aramaic word, פלח several times, which I gave you above, and he used it only for service and worship to God or to false gods, to a deity.

    While “serve” can mean just serving other humans, in the context of Daniel, it is clear.

    Along with the times of “to him” and Jesus’ quoting of this passage in the NT as about Himself – as Messiah and Son of God – Mark 14:60-64 . . .

    It is a slam dunk; and Kaleef Karim at “Discover the Truth” is wrong, as you are wrong.

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  52. “In the context of Daniel, the human writer, Daniel the prophet”

    not according to most of your own scholars Ken!

    The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church tells us:

    ‘The traditional belief that the Book was written in the 6th cent. BC by Daniel, one of the Jewish exiles in Babylon, is now almost universally regarded as untenable. A number of historical errors make it next to impossible to believe that it dates from the period of the Exile, and a much later date is borne out also by its doctrinal standpoint, by its position in the canon of Scripture, and by its language (the section 2: 4-7: 18 is written in Aramaic, not Hebrew, and even Greek loan-words occur). The consensus of modern critical opinion is that it was written between 167 and 164 BC. On this hypothesis the purpose of the Book was to encourage the reader during the persecution of the Jews at the hands of Antiochus Epiphanes (175-164 BC).’ (p. 449).

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  53. We already hashed that issue out earlier. There are other believing scholars that disagree with that view.

    (E. J. Young, Gleason Archer, Tremper Longman, Iain Durguid, Sinclair Ferguson, Dwight Pentecost)

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  54. With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful

    KT //In the context of Daniel, the human writer, Daniel the prophet, used the Aramaic word, פלח several times, which I gave you above, and he used it only for service and worship to God or to false gods, to a deity.

    While “serve” can mean just serving other humans, in the context of Daniel, it is clear.//

    You can not take book of Daniel only as your basis for understanding the use of word פלח in the original Aramaic.  The book of Daniel is not a very large work, and there are significant portions of it that are not even written in Aramaic. Thats a poor methodology.

    We have to look at the way this Aramaic word is used in other writings such as Ketubah until come to the conclusion that פלח can indeed be offered to humans as well.

    Here I have selected additional examples from Aramaic Targum Onkelos that should suffice to prove my point.

    Gen. 29:18

    וּרְחֵים יַעֲקוֹב, יָת רָחֵל; וַאֲמַר, אֶפְלְחִנָּךְ שְׁבַע שְׁנִין, בְּרָחֵל בְּרַתָּךְ, זְעֵירְתָא.

    And Jacob loved Rachel and said “I will serve you 7 years for Rachel your younger daughter.”

    Gen. 30:26

    הַב יָת נְשַׁי וְיָת בְּנַי, דִּפְלַחִית יָתָךְ בְּהוֹן–וְאֵיזֵיל: אֲרֵי אַתְּ יְדַעְתְּ, יָת פֻּלְחָנִי דִּפְלַחְתָּךְ.

    “Give to me my wives and children for which I served, for you know the service with which I served you.

    The words in italics indicate the presence of the root פלח in the original Aramaic. In these examples Jacob refers to the service or work that he rendered to a human, Laban.

    Gen. 14:4

    תַּרְתַּא עַסְרֵי שְׁנִין, פְּלַחוּ יָת כְּדָרְלָעֹמֶר; וּתְלָת עַסְרֵי שְׁנִין, מְרַדוּ.

    For 12 years they served Kedarla‘omer and in the 13th year they rebelled.

    In this example פלח refers to service offered to a human.

    So this mean פלח is not an exclusive term for worship or service to a deity

     

    Earlier Temple also claimed:

    KT//Also, פלח, was translated in the LXX (The Septuagint) into Greek by λατρευω (λατρευουσα – “worshipping”
    λατρευω / latreuo – is only used of worship and serving God//

    I checked with several online LXX translations but I can not find  λατρευω instead I find the greek word used is δουλευω

    14 καὶ αὐτῷ ἐδόθη ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ ἡ τιμὴ καὶ ἡ βασιλεία, καὶ πάντες οἱ λαοί, φυλαί, γλῶσσαι αὐτῷ δουλεύσουσιν· ἡ ἐξουσία αὐτοῦ ἐξουσία αἰώνιος, ἥτις οὐ παρελεύσεται, καὶ ἡ βασιλεία αὐτοῦ οὐ διαφθαρήσεται.

    Source:

    http://www.katapi.org.uk/katapiNSBunix/Lxx/LxxByBC.php

    http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=50&page=7
    So פלח is ranslated by δουλευω, not λατρευω

    Strong’s concordance give  δουλευω as follow:

    Cognate: 1398 douleúō (from 1401 /doúlos) – properly, to serve as a slave, having all personal ownership-rights assigned to the owner; (figuratively) to willingly give over the prerogative to be self-governing. See 1401 (doulos).

    Nothing suggests service rendered to a deity.

    Lets look at one usage from NT

    Romans 9:12 V-FIA-3S
    GRK: Ὁ μείζων δουλεύσει τῷ ἐλάσσονι
    NAS: to her, THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.
    KJV: The elder shall serve the younger.
    INT: The older will serve the younger

    This definitely can refer to service offered to humans not necessarily to a deity

    Seems like Temple makes things up

     

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  55. Salam alaaekoim, Eric, I am learning a lot by reading your comments, keep them coming!

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  56. There are two versions of the translations of Daniel in the LXX. (there are even more Greek translations of Daniel before Christ- up to six- 7 Greek translations of the whole OT – the Theodotian Jewish version, is the one that has douleuo (to serve). The original first Lxx version has latreuo λατρευω (to worship, to serve).

    In my Accordance Bible Software – it gives both the original LXX and the Theodotian version of the LXX.

    But in the Hebrew, Abd עבד (to serve, to worship) – cognate with the Arabic عبد – where is formed the name عبدالله , Abudullah (the slave or servant of Allah) and other words formed from that also mean worship, like عبادت

    It is used to serve God in worship in Deut. 6:13 and 10:20 and quoted by Jesus the Messiah / Isa Al Masih – عیسی المسیح in Matthew 4:10 – “you shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.”

    In both Deut. 6:13 and 10:20 abad עבד is translated by latreuo λατρευω in the LXX.

    Matthew 4:10 combines the two words in Greek, the proskunew word – “to bow down, to kiss, to worship” and the Latreuo word (to worship), that is used only in context of worship of a Deity.

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  57. “It’s important to note that Theodotion’s translation comes after the earlier LXX translation, and that the LXX’s rendering of Daniel 7:14 was already being used as an argument for Jesus receiving latreuo by patristic writers before the non-Christian Jew Theodotion produced his Greek translation of Daniel. Thus, this chronology needs to be kept in mind.” (Keith Thompson, “Daniel 7:13-14 and Christ’s Deity: Answering Ibn Anwar’s Eiesegesis”)

    Of course, keep in mind also that the original LXX was made by a Jewish person also 200 years before Christ. Same goes for Isaiah 7:14, which translated alma עלמה as Parthenon / παρθενον = virgin, long before Christ was born. There was no such thing as a Christian in 280 – 150 BC. The Lxx was started around 280 BC and completed around 150-135 BC.

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  58. (there are even more Greek translations of Daniel before Christ- up to six- 7 Greek translations of the whole OT

    Sorry for a mistake here – there is only Before Christ and it is the one that has latpreuo λατρευω for Daniel 7:14 (worship that is only for God or another pagan deity) it should have been:

    (there are even more Greek translations of the OT by the time of Origen (around 250 AD)
    Theodotian version was in 2nd century AD. and more by the time of Jerome in 400 AD.

    Some sources say there are 6 or 7 Greek translations of the OT by the Jews.
    there is the Lxx, Theodotian, Aquila, Lucian, Symmachus, and others.

    Lxx is older and 200 – 135 BC; and uses latreuo.

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  59. Salam Br. Adam,

    I am glad you learnt something from this great blog as much as I do. May Allah increases our knowledge and keep our faith. Amen

    Liked by 1 person

  60. With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful

    The fact that most of christian sites used  פלח translated by δουλευω, not λατρευω follow general scholarly consensus that Theodotion’s translation of Daniel is more literal and faithful to the original Hebrew/Aramaic masorete’s text.

    Only people like you who seems quoting the certain LXX translation to support your view, this is quite telling.

    KT: //But in the Hebrew, Abd עבד (to serve, to worship) – cognate with the Arabic عبد – where is formed the name عبدالله , Abudullah (the slave or servant of Allah) and other words formed from that also mean worship, like عبادت//

    You are definitely confused  here , nowhere we mentioned עבד, so far we have been talking about Aramaic פלח ?? 

    Even so “serving” (עָבוֹד ‘avod) is what a “servant” (עֶֽבֶד ‘ĕvĕd) does. It does not necessarily means that a servant worships his master/owner as a god. He just WORKS for him. 

    Thats why עבד means exactly “to work” in hebrew.

    The same works for the Arabic عبد, it is laughable you think it is only used in reference to deity

    I can say to my wife something like:

     أنتي الرئيسة, أنا مجرد عبد حبكِ

    You’re the boss. I’m just your love slave. = LOL=

    You are deviating from the subject.  

    I have bring the evidences that to prove that:

    1. פלח is not an exclusive term for worship or service to a deity. 
    2. פלח is better translated by δουλευω, not λατρευω, which is also not an exclusive term for  deity.

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  61. 1. פלח is not an exclusive term for worship or service to a deity.

    It is exclusive for worship of a deity in Daniel and Ezra Biblical literature. One must look at the way the author himself uses it in his own writings first, before looking at other uses in other literature.

    2. פלח is better translated by δουλευω, not λατρευω, which is also not an exclusive term for deity.

    the reason why I expanded the argument to include the Hebrew עבד abad, in looking at the broader Hebrew TaNaKh context, is because the semantic range of the word includes both “serve” and “Worship” and in context of Deity, it means to worship. This is clear in Deut. 6:13 and 10:20, which Jesus quotes from, and Jesus expands the one Hebrew word, Abad, to two concepts in Greek in Matthew 4:10. (Proskuneo and Latreuo)

    Pelakh פלח was first translated by the Jews in the earliest LXX as Latpreuo in Daniel 7:14. The Apostles and Apostolic inspired writers used the LXX a lot for the NT documents.

    That Jesus the Messiah in Mark 14:60-64 says that He is the Messiah, Son of God, the “son of man” of Daniel 7:13-14, who goes up to the Ancient of Days and rides on clouds and sits at the right hand of the Father (with Psalm 110:1), and the fulfillment passage of a kingdom of priests from all nations bought by His blood, in Revelation 5:9-10 and 5:13-14 show that the original intend was “worship to a Deity”. That the Jews accused Him of blasphemy and wanted Him executed for this is clear.

    the Gospel of Mark was written (and all NT writings) were written before the Theodotian version of the LXX, as it was done because the Christians were using the original LXX and the Jews who rejected Jesus as Messiah did not like the way they were using their Scriptures. so they made another translation of the Lxx in the Second century AD, after all the NT books.

    So, the evidence is clearly on my side of the argument.

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  62. With the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful

    Wrong, the broader context in the Tanakh ,עָבַד definitely mean “to work” like in master or employer, not only in the sense of “working” for God.

    For example you will find the word עָבַד throughout Exodus where the Israelites serve the Egyptians. Some times it is translated as slaves. Doesn’t have much to do with “worship.

    In Exodus 14:12 er read

    הֲלֹא־ זֶ֣ה הַדָּבָ֗ר אֲשֶׁר֩ דִּבַּ֨רְנוּ אֵלֶ֤יךָ בְמִצְרַ֙יִם֙ לֵאמֹ֔ר חֲדַ֥ל מִמֶּ֖נּוּ וְנַֽעַבְדָ֣ה אֶת־ מִצְרָ֑יִם כִּ֣י טֹ֥וב לָ֙נוּ֙ עֲבֹ֣ד אֶת־ מִצְרַ֔יִם מִמֻּתֵ֖נוּ בַּמִּדְבָּֽר׃
    Didn’t we tell you in Egypt to leave us alone and let us work for the Egyptians? It would have been better to be servants (or slaves) in Egypt than to die [here] in the desert!’

    Also your attempt to discredit Theodotion version as somewhat less original LXX version is also wrong.

    The “Original Septuagint” was a translation into Koine Greek of only the Five Books of Moses, the Book of Daniel is definitely not the original Septuagint version, but instead is a copy of Theodotion’s translation from the Hebrew.

    The fact is later the old Septuagint version was discarded in favor of Theodotion’s , because it is considered more closely resembles the Masoretic text not because of theological reason.

    From the Essay of Lancelot Brenton’s English edition of the Septuagint:

    Although many Christians believed in the inspiration and authority of the Septuagint, yet this could not have been universally the case; otherwise the disuse of the real Septuagint version of the book of Daniel, and the adoption of that of Theodotion in its stead, could never have taken place. This must have arisen from an apprehension of the poverty and inaccuracy of the Septuagint in this book, so that another version similar in its general style was gladly adopted.

    (An Historical Account of the Septuagint Version by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton (1807-1862))

    No evidence is on your side of the argument.

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